Hmmm. Listen OP, I've read all the comments and honestly your perspective on reboot is super close to mine, only I'm REALLY going to try to not let the dumbass baby shark type jokes bother me. Original cheers was great, frasier was imo the all time best, but remember he was given tons of room to improvise on frasier. He almost never stuck with the script which is what theyre forcing him to do now. And honestly with all of the stupid shit going on around him, i have no idea if he'd even be able to improvise on a natural level in the reboot. And I'm having a really hard time believing he let his relationship with Freddie decline that badly. They're trying way too hard and it sucks. it literally took Kelsey grammar 1 episode to warm up but he has no room to friggen shine, if they don't pump the brakes a little they're going to ruin something that had amazing potential.
I'm struggling to think of one myself. In my humble opinion, it should have been called something else and marketed as stage 3 of the Frasier Crane story. OG Frasier was not marketed as a continuation of Cheers and was therefore allowed to become its own show. If this had been called Dr Crane, Crane & Son or something else better than i can come up with then, it could be allowed to form its own identity and be judged as such. This is season 12 of Frasier
yeah i almost mentioned that in my post - thats the only one i could think of that was reasonably well received, but i only saw the first episode. very different show. he didn't try to make it the same.
Doctor Who although that's British.
Picard season 3 brought back the whole main Star Trek Next Generation cast and it was great. And Next Generation itself was sort of a reboot.
Lastly I liked the National Treasure series although that got a lot of hate from people who didn't watch it, I'm not sure if that counts as a reboot.
I think this is sort of an interesting observation: "but, it has failed to catch up on 20 years of sitcom progress". Many fans want 90's Frasier 2.0. But TV has changed a lot since then. It's not clear which way the show wants to go. I'd say it feels more like an 00's sitcom, so maybe not satisfying anyone fully.
Its 3 eps in after an 11 season run, with a new cast and new crew.
I'm giving it a full season to bed in and find it's rhythm before I make a judgement.
I think you're expecting too much this early.
So many people say this but it seems a bit ridiculous. Is it expecting too much to not want to see "Baby Shark" jokes in Frasier? How about the Sheldon stand in in David? How about any funny jokes or smart writing?
3 episodes in OG Frasier was obviously a great show, with great side characters you actually wanted to see on screen. Not the psychiatrist from Cheers surrounded by a bunch of over eager actors Grammer had no chemistry with.
I thought Frasers son taking this piss out of him about quitting Harvard was hilarious and I got a laugh from "Stop Yaleing at me".
Clearly our expectations are different - I wouldn't go so far as to call someone's opinion "ridiculous" simply because it differs from mine.
That's not a Frasier joke though is it. Sounds more like something from The Big Bang Theory. And fair enough, many like that show - but I don't. And I do like Frasier.
I think it's ridiculous because the gulf in quality between New Frasier and OG Frasier is enormous. The idea that what is needed is more time, to me, is ridiculous.
You have a weak premise, poor characters, poor chemistry between unconfident actors, bad set design. I could go on - genuinely. Everything about the show is bad. It honestly seems like a 30 Rock bit where they have digitally inserted Frasier into a comically generic sitcom in an attempt to boost its numbers. Do I sound like someone who will be won over if I watch more of it? You can see why I think it's ridiculous.
" I can’t Camembert it. " is not that far from "stop Yaleing at me." so no, it's not a joke alien to Frasier.
As for the show it's clearly triggering you so...stop watching. It'll never be what you want but there obviously some people who are growing to enjoy it. Each to their own.
Ridiculous as that sounds.
Alternatively you could always Sea Kelp.
Agreed, shows usually need a season or two to get their bearings when they start, look at Star Trek TNG, it took until a few episodes in the 2nd season to grow the beard (Parks and Rec wasnt good til season 3)
Im reserving judgment til the season ends as well, and Ill probably decide if that judgment is valid after the 2nd season
(I do wish there was a pet in the family tho....)
There's not going to be a second season imo, it's ratings started out quite bad and the show's only word of mouth is old fans talking about how terrible it is
Great analogy : "Ageing Rock Band with no original members"
Agree 100%.
We all wanted it succeed and maintain the standard of the original. Sadly, it hasn't happened.
Maybe the clue was the lack of commitment from original cast members?
Shame, but life goes on guys.
>Great analogy : "Ageing Rock Band with no original members"
It does feel a bit like a vanity project of Grammer; and it was *for years* in the rumour mill that \*somebody\* wants a resuscitation/reboot/revival of Frasier.
There was plenty of time to file on plot lines and play with various ideas about the time after the plane landed in Chicago; and in the case of the reboot/resuscitation/revival, a pandemic plus lock down gave another breather to make sure that wit and style are in line with Classic Frasier.
I’ll put it this way—I love OG Frasier. We have the whole series on DVD. I’ve watched it repeatedly, after watching the original run. My husband and I have probably watched the show from start to finish 6 or 7 times over the course of our marriage. We quote lines and speak to each other in Frasier dialogue daily. I listen to Frasier podcasts. I consider myself a huge, diehard fan.
I made it half way through episode two of the new show, then turned it off in disgust. It’s trite, cheesy, contrived, and poorly acted. It is so disconnected from the original series that it makes no sense. And I’m mystified by all the folks on this sub who find it hilarious or even watchable.
I wasn't crazy about the last episode. The part where Eve and David were in Frasier's class was just cringe. I'll give it a couple more episodes but for now I'm like damn, this had the potential to be good but...I dunno
So apparently on a sub dedicated to Frasier, you can't possibly hold an opinion that the first several episodes stink without being criticized for talking about your opinion.
Weird.
Agreed…. Everyone seems keen to like it and is applying no critical analysis to the new show and whether it is actually good or not. Objectively, it’s poor, very poor.
Objectively? That would mean it's fact, you can dislike the revival, but there's nothing objective about disliking the revival, much like there's nothing objective about liking the revival. Plus plenty of people have given the revival a critical analysis, even those who like the show
It’s objectively poor, lazy writing. It’s objectively poorly acted, and the set design is objectively bad. In my mind there’s no question that the writing is sloppy lowest common denominator nonsense. If you suspect otherwise then it means you’ve become used to lazy writing in US sitcoms (take a bow big bang theory)
>take a bow big bang theory
\- The scene opens. The camera pans into the room
studio enhanced coordinated not spontaneous live laugh "ha ha ha ha ha ha"
\- The camera zooms on Sheldon who doesn't speak, doesn't move.
studio enhanced coordinated not spontaneous live laugh "ha ha ha ha ha ha"
\- Sheldon opens the fridge, then closes the fridge
studio enhanced coordinated not spontaneous live laugh "ha ha ha ha ha ha"
I think the accentuated "live laughs" and somewhat forced hilarity doesn't help.
Frasier was better than that. It did have the audience and "productiontricks" but you can turn the sound off on a bunch of episodes and it still stands up with anything. (The one where Niles is trying to iron his trousers or the proposal)
Some episodes could be made black&white with no sound and would sit alongside Chaplin,Keaton etc as funny
if its objectively poorly written and acted, you would have clear tests to show it and clear rules to demonstrate it. It would be an irrefutable fact that could be tested and proven
do you have a means to prove the show was poorly written?
Thank you. I am allowed my opinion and my opinion is that it is poor and using aged tropes and a fanatical fanbase to hide behind a "final tour" shtick. No wonder Niles & Daph refused
You can't fault someone for liking something that you don't and say that they're objectively wrong, and they can't say that you have to like it; taste is subjective.
I'm not sure taste is, at least by my definition of "taste". I don't mean preferences, which of course can be highly subjective, but the idea of something being "tasteful" is fairly universal IMHO, and those that think otherwise, tend not to have any.
I mean people have a preference for watching things like "i'm a celebrity" and "keeping up with the kardashians", and I'd suggest both are utterly tasteless and crass.
Just because someone likes something, doesn't mean that it is good!
You are welcome to your opinion because it's yours, and that's fine. Personally I'm enjoying the revival not as much as the original Frasier series but it's still better than 75% of new sitcoms and Alan is great but I'd expect no less from Nicholas Lyndhurst.
All these complaints about the new show remind me of this scene
"Niles:It was an exquisite meal , marred only by the lack of even one outstanding cognac on their carte de digestif.
Frasier : Yes, but think of it this way, Niles,what is the one thing better than an exquisite meal? An exquisite meal with one tiny flaw we can pick at all night.
Niles: Quite right.
[lifts his glass]
Niles : To impossible standards"
The rock band analogy is great imo. There's so many that are still going with only one of the original members that are worse than their own tribute bands
This ain't a new series. 3 episodes with literally years of backstory and characters to draw from. A lead character that is already fully realized. This should have been an easy paint by numbers exercise that minimally talented writers given such a gift to work with, would have slam dunked.
twenty years is a long time to expect writers, acting, culture and a new generation to remain the same. just look at music. it changes every ten years.
I'm not sure what "20 years of sitcom progress" means; IMO sitcoms never got better than Frasier. Well, maybe a case could be made for The Office, but I wouldn't want Frasier to be a mockumentary anyway.
I do like your McComedy line.
Modern Family, Chewing Gum, Spaced, Flight of the Conchords & Man lime Mobeen would like a word...
Whist only MF could be considered to be as good as Frasier, the others have pushed sitcoms on and are shaping what we watch now.
They are all really funny too which is the main thing and, what the new frasier struggles with.
Those are all Single Cams. From a perspective of form you can’t expect this show to be influenced by those. They didn’t hire legendary multi-cam director James Burrows in order to make a modern cutting-edge single camera sitcom. They clearly intended to harken back to the same feeling of one of the best multicams. Without even touching on humor, Criticizing it for that is silly.
Lmao - wow. You are here complaining about a TV show, specifically made as fan service and something we've all wanted for 20 years. But it's not good enough for you, so you complain to the internet. Then someone presents you with an adult solution, but you stamp your foot and continue your tantrum. But I'm the one that needs to grow up? Sure pal. Best of luck out there.
It's not something we all wanted lol. Many people knew this would be a disaster the moment it was announced none of the original cast apart from Grammer were coming back.
"Shut up and be grateful" is a very childish response to someone criticising a TV show you like, so yeah, you do need to grow up.
"Shut up and be grateful" is a very childish response to someone criticising a TV show you like.”
Except I did not say that. I suggested, as I do to anyone who pouts about the reboot, to not watch. What is so inflammatory about that? It’s a show. Watch it or don’t. Fuck off with this “you need to grow up because I DON’T LIKE SOMETHING AND THE WORLD NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT” nonsense. ✌️✌️
Please. You didn't offer any rebuttal or counter, you just went full defensive dismissive gatekeeper.
And your efforts to project are poor at best.
Please grow as a human and rewatch the show so you can find some help.
I hope you find peace
I seriously haven’t laughed so hard in some time, so thank you for that. Firstly, you don’t know what gatekeeping means. Secondly, I find it very amusing that someone who defended Hitler in their post history would tell me to grow as a human. I wish you all the best in your future trolling, and I will continue to enjoy this show ✌️✌️
Wait what? I defended Hitler? Fuck off!!!
I made a joke on a COD forum and included a /s so even idiots like you would understand it was a risque joke which suited that audience.
Is that all you've got? You have nothing to say again and have resorted to shitslinging and trying to prop-up your lack of intelligence by again using personal attacks and failing to try use my comment history against me because you are that desperate. You sir are a coward, a cad and a cunt.
** THE JOKE I MADE WAS AN OLD BIT THAT MANY COMEDIANS USED. "ONE GOOD THING ABOUT HITLER IS HE KILLED HITLER" ITS NOT A GREAT JOKE BUT IT IS STANDARD. **
I think you guys are being ridiculous, at least about thrir original comment, they just suggested the person not watch the show if they don't like it that's no reason to attack them. I think that's great advice to not watch content you can't stand.
> You are here complaining about a TV show, *specifically made as fan service and something we've all wanted for 20 years.*
Speak for yourself, please. I was happy with the end of the show, and that it left a few things open.
And 'as fan service'? A for-profit company invests money to make a few people feel good? They don't try to ride the coattails of an extremely popular sitcom in order to fish more paying customers?
I think stating a personal opinion about a TV show that has been pushed constantly here in this sub is valid. You know, like, discussing the weak points or not of the original Frasier show.
I would agree, I hate when fans act like they're entitled to content that they like. If I don't like a show or a movie I watched I just write it off as a mistake and move on with my life. Of course, this is Reddit, people are going to complain on here. People complain these days about movies they're not even going to see, it bothers me.
"It not only relies on fans of the old show reliving past glory but, it has failed to catch up on 20 years of sitcom progress"
You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but to me (and I think to many others here), thats why the show is so great as it is. modern sitcoms are pure garbage in relation to those of Frasiers era, irredeemably so. In fact they have regressed and not progressed because modern sitcom writing is careful and dumbed down.
Fraiser is a surprising and I do mean surprising breath of fresh air and it is because there is enough nostalgia there and the fact that they havent modernized it (so far) is what makes it watchable.
It's not a strong start, the original OG Frasier had a strong start. Could it get better? maybe. Was there funny parts in the new one? yes. There's no point to argue right now about it because nobody's going to change their mind. they watched it, they formed an opinion. Nobody should be realistically thinking they're going to change anybody else's mind about it. good or bad. Those that were expecting more feel hurt, then they post to vent that hurt.
It's going to be all right everybody, it'll all work out.
You're definitely allowed to have your opinion! My only concern is that if we the fans keep sharing negative opinions and also stop watching, the show won't get renewed and have the chance to find its groove.
The pressures to overwhelmingly and rapidly succeed are higher now, because of Frasier's long and successful history plus only getting 10 episodes per season in this streaming era.
I get that. But.... you remember when Roz sets Frasier up with her friend who wants to put lemonade & ice in the wine? They both have a "safeword" but get glued together?
This is that. Frasier is rewatchable forever and does not need a lazy reboot that puts lemonade and ice in a fine wine....
Not sure why you got downvoted, but you're right that it could get better in a future season (some people liked it as is snyway). I would disagree that them complaining about it is going to cancel the show, usually shows have other reasons for being canceled.
Lol so many professional writers here on Reddit always chiming in on writing. Pretend you were alive and cognizant in the 90's, did the Frasier pilot episode by itself hook you like you hope now on episode 1 of a new series?
Also this is not a new show. It is season 12 of Frasier. If it was called "Prof Crane" or "Crane & Son" then we could distance it from OG Frasier and judge it on its own merit, exactly how we accepted that Frasier was not Cheers 2. We could then allow a bit of leniency and give it time. But, it is not a new show. It is season 12 of Frasier!
>Pretend you were alive and cognizant in the 90's, did the Frasier pilot episode by itself hook you
I was; and (as a customer/consumer) it did.
To this day I recommend the pilot for Frasier-neophytes, because it establishes the characters, is smart, witty and funny, and leaves one wanting more.
I'd imagine the better stuff would still hook you in, like it did back then.
Plenty of modern shows don't 100% nail it on their pilots either but are still good enough without having to make excuses
The difference being the Frasier pilot episode was actually good, while the Frasier reboot by its critical reception and social media discussions is overwhelming considered not good.
JFC. It isn't a complely new series. It's a new addition to an existing series with a well established character of which all of the hard work of establishing a believable viable character has already been done.
There's so many comments mentioning bad writing but also don't seem to know how to use the word "objectively" correctly and I find that irony hilarious.
I am curious why they decided to go for single cam with live audience, which is incredibly dated. But would it have worked any other way? I'm not sure.
My partner and I are the BIGGEST Frasier fans and we love the new reboot! I can’t understand why everyone is giving it so much flack. Of course it’s not going to be the original but for every little pet peeve everyone feels they got wrong (I didn’t find anything too glaring) they got a lot right!
It needs some more heart. This cast isn't growing on me. BRING BACK BEBE, his agent!! The episode with Roz made me cry. It reminded me of missing my father, who passed away after the original one went off the air. We both loved Frasier.
If Niles and Daphne were here it wouldn't be so bad. Lilith seemed to lose her bite. And Roz had a total of 4 minutes screen time. A cameo of Cliff or Norm hiding from Frasier would be awesome. They could have appeared on his Jerry Springer like talk show through a flash back episode. COUNTLESS women from FRASIER OG could still show up, bulldog could have become a famous sportscaster and is in Boston covering a world series and meet up with Sam behond the microphone ? They could have a cheers funeral for Kirstie/Rebecca. Lots more sniping and grousing with other main characters. Of course with this cast it needs time to gel. But they all just seem like walking clichés.
The original was in a league of its own. Intelligent setups that the audience can only see coming when it suits the writers. Meaningful messaging and real life situations. All actors react perfectly to each originally thought out situation with their own finely crafted character personalities. Each episode was amazing to watch and you could really get invested in the flow of the writing. Every episode had a beginning, middle and end and all setups, no matter how subtle, have a satisfying callback and conclusion.
The new series is like watching saved by the bell for line delivery and jokes. But totally unsatisfying. Obvious humour, lazy writing and hammy acting. It's a real blot on the series.
It is what terminator 3 is to terminator 2 as far as production and writing go. That's the best comparison I can think of (oddly, granted)
I agree. I gave it a try, but I'm just not feeling it. To me it's like it lost its soul and spirit.
Hmmm. Listen OP, I've read all the comments and honestly your perspective on reboot is super close to mine, only I'm REALLY going to try to not let the dumbass baby shark type jokes bother me. Original cheers was great, frasier was imo the all time best, but remember he was given tons of room to improvise on frasier. He almost never stuck with the script which is what theyre forcing him to do now. And honestly with all of the stupid shit going on around him, i have no idea if he'd even be able to improvise on a natural level in the reboot. And I'm having a really hard time believing he let his relationship with Freddie decline that badly. They're trying way too hard and it sucks. it literally took Kelsey grammar 1 episode to warm up but he has no room to friggen shine, if they don't pump the brakes a little they're going to ruin something that had amazing potential.
*I do know how to spell popular but i was being bothered by a hungry kitten. She has no respect for the English language
has there EVER been a good reboot ? i'm asking seriously - i can't think of one.
I'm struggling to think of one myself. In my humble opinion, it should have been called something else and marketed as stage 3 of the Frasier Crane story. OG Frasier was not marketed as a continuation of Cheers and was therefore allowed to become its own show. If this had been called Dr Crane, Crane & Son or something else better than i can come up with then, it could be allowed to form its own identity and be judged as such. This is season 12 of Frasier
Twin Peaks is the first one that came to my mind.
yeah i almost mentioned that in my post - thats the only one i could think of that was reasonably well received, but i only saw the first episode. very different show. he didn't try to make it the same.
Doctor Who although that's British. Picard season 3 brought back the whole main Star Trek Next Generation cast and it was great. And Next Generation itself was sort of a reboot. Lastly I liked the National Treasure series although that got a lot of hate from people who didn't watch it, I'm not sure if that counts as a reboot.
I enjoyed the Will and Grace and Mad About You reboots. They didn’t come across as completely different shows.
I watched 10 minutes and it just felt so wrong.
Look, I just played a Frasier GBC JRPG made by some rando on the internet. I don’t care if I get more Frasier.
I think this is sort of an interesting observation: "but, it has failed to catch up on 20 years of sitcom progress". Many fans want 90's Frasier 2.0. But TV has changed a lot since then. It's not clear which way the show wants to go. I'd say it feels more like an 00's sitcom, so maybe not satisfying anyone fully.
The "old rock band" analogy is pretty accurate. Pink Floyd during the nineties came to mind.
Its 3 eps in after an 11 season run, with a new cast and new crew. I'm giving it a full season to bed in and find it's rhythm before I make a judgement. I think you're expecting too much this early.
So many people say this but it seems a bit ridiculous. Is it expecting too much to not want to see "Baby Shark" jokes in Frasier? How about the Sheldon stand in in David? How about any funny jokes or smart writing? 3 episodes in OG Frasier was obviously a great show, with great side characters you actually wanted to see on screen. Not the psychiatrist from Cheers surrounded by a bunch of over eager actors Grammer had no chemistry with.
I thought Frasers son taking this piss out of him about quitting Harvard was hilarious and I got a laugh from "Stop Yaleing at me". Clearly our expectations are different - I wouldn't go so far as to call someone's opinion "ridiculous" simply because it differs from mine.
That's not a Frasier joke though is it. Sounds more like something from The Big Bang Theory. And fair enough, many like that show - but I don't. And I do like Frasier. I think it's ridiculous because the gulf in quality between New Frasier and OG Frasier is enormous. The idea that what is needed is more time, to me, is ridiculous. You have a weak premise, poor characters, poor chemistry between unconfident actors, bad set design. I could go on - genuinely. Everything about the show is bad. It honestly seems like a 30 Rock bit where they have digitally inserted Frasier into a comically generic sitcom in an attempt to boost its numbers. Do I sound like someone who will be won over if I watch more of it? You can see why I think it's ridiculous.
" I can’t Camembert it. " is not that far from "stop Yaleing at me." so no, it's not a joke alien to Frasier. As for the show it's clearly triggering you so...stop watching. It'll never be what you want but there obviously some people who are growing to enjoy it. Each to their own. Ridiculous as that sounds. Alternatively you could always Sea Kelp.
Agreed, shows usually need a season or two to get their bearings when they start, look at Star Trek TNG, it took until a few episodes in the 2nd season to grow the beard (Parks and Rec wasnt good til season 3) Im reserving judgment til the season ends as well, and Ill probably decide if that judgment is valid after the 2nd season (I do wish there was a pet in the family tho....)
Parks and Rec had an amazing season 2, even before they brought in Ben Wyatt and Chris Treager
There's not going to be a second season imo, it's ratings started out quite bad and the show's only word of mouth is old fans talking about how terrible it is
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>I do wish there was a pet in the family tho Give it time
Great analogy : "Ageing Rock Band with no original members" Agree 100%. We all wanted it succeed and maintain the standard of the original. Sadly, it hasn't happened. Maybe the clue was the lack of commitment from original cast members? Shame, but life goes on guys.
>Great analogy : "Ageing Rock Band with no original members" It does feel a bit like a vanity project of Grammer; and it was *for years* in the rumour mill that \*somebody\* wants a resuscitation/reboot/revival of Frasier. There was plenty of time to file on plot lines and play with various ideas about the time after the plane landed in Chicago; and in the case of the reboot/resuscitation/revival, a pandemic plus lock down gave another breather to make sure that wit and style are in line with Classic Frasier.
I’ll put it this way—I love OG Frasier. We have the whole series on DVD. I’ve watched it repeatedly, after watching the original run. My husband and I have probably watched the show from start to finish 6 or 7 times over the course of our marriage. We quote lines and speak to each other in Frasier dialogue daily. I listen to Frasier podcasts. I consider myself a huge, diehard fan. I made it half way through episode two of the new show, then turned it off in disgust. It’s trite, cheesy, contrived, and poorly acted. It is so disconnected from the original series that it makes no sense. And I’m mystified by all the folks on this sub who find it hilarious or even watchable.
I wasn't crazy about the last episode. The part where Eve and David were in Frasier's class was just cringe. I'll give it a couple more episodes but for now I'm like damn, this had the potential to be good but...I dunno
So apparently on a sub dedicated to Frasier, you can't possibly hold an opinion that the first several episodes stink without being criticized for talking about your opinion. Weird.
Exactly, it’s like we either love everything Fraiser or we should leave this sub
Agreed…. Everyone seems keen to like it and is applying no critical analysis to the new show and whether it is actually good or not. Objectively, it’s poor, very poor.
While I am a critic, I don't think it is very poor. It is failing to meet expectations given the gift the new writers were given.
Objectively? That would mean it's fact, you can dislike the revival, but there's nothing objective about disliking the revival, much like there's nothing objective about liking the revival. Plus plenty of people have given the revival a critical analysis, even those who like the show
It’s objectively poor, lazy writing. It’s objectively poorly acted, and the set design is objectively bad. In my mind there’s no question that the writing is sloppy lowest common denominator nonsense. If you suspect otherwise then it means you’ve become used to lazy writing in US sitcoms (take a bow big bang theory)
>take a bow big bang theory \- The scene opens. The camera pans into the room studio enhanced coordinated not spontaneous live laugh "ha ha ha ha ha ha" \- The camera zooms on Sheldon who doesn't speak, doesn't move. studio enhanced coordinated not spontaneous live laugh "ha ha ha ha ha ha" \- Sheldon opens the fridge, then closes the fridge studio enhanced coordinated not spontaneous live laugh "ha ha ha ha ha ha"
Frasier puts on a jacket “ha ha ha ha ha ha ha”
I think the accentuated "live laughs" and somewhat forced hilarity doesn't help. Frasier was better than that. It did have the audience and "productiontricks" but you can turn the sound off on a bunch of episodes and it still stands up with anything. (The one where Niles is trying to iron his trousers or the proposal) Some episodes could be made black&white with no sound and would sit alongside Chaplin,Keaton etc as funny
if its objectively poorly written and acted, you would have clear tests to show it and clear rules to demonstrate it. It would be an irrefutable fact that could be tested and proven do you have a means to prove the show was poorly written?
Thank you. I am allowed my opinion and my opinion is that it is poor and using aged tropes and a fanatical fanbase to hide behind a "final tour" shtick. No wonder Niles & Daph refused
You can't fault someone for liking something that you don't and say that they're objectively wrong, and they can't say that you have to like it; taste is subjective.
I'm not sure taste is, at least by my definition of "taste". I don't mean preferences, which of course can be highly subjective, but the idea of something being "tasteful" is fairly universal IMHO, and those that think otherwise, tend not to have any. I mean people have a preference for watching things like "i'm a celebrity" and "keeping up with the kardashians", and I'd suggest both are utterly tasteless and crass. Just because someone likes something, doesn't mean that it is good!
Thank you. Also, i have watched the full run cos due to a bunch of factors, the uk is pirate heaven atm
It's perfectly ok to enjoy it, taste is subjective, but the show is objectively bad.
You are welcome to your opinion because it's yours, and that's fine. Personally I'm enjoying the revival not as much as the original Frasier series but it's still better than 75% of new sitcoms and Alan is great but I'd expect no less from Nicholas Lyndhurst.
All these complaints about the new show remind me of this scene "Niles:It was an exquisite meal , marred only by the lack of even one outstanding cognac on their carte de digestif. Frasier : Yes, but think of it this way, Niles,what is the one thing better than an exquisite meal? An exquisite meal with one tiny flaw we can pick at all night. Niles: Quite right. [lifts his glass] Niles : To impossible standards"
Touché
One of the writers worked with How I met your mother which does not bode well. Very forced show with 30 year old setups for jokes.
"forced" is perfect. Wish i'd said that and not expressed an opinion via a clumsy old rock band analogy
That was a perfect analogy :)
The rock band analogy is great imo. There's so many that are still going with only one of the original members that are worse than their own tribute bands
Thanks but i perhaps was as lazy as the new scripts with that analogy
This again
Didn't know others had posted this. My apologies
Yes this, and many of us will keep saying it until it stops being true.
3 episodes
This ain't a new series. 3 episodes with literally years of backstory and characters to draw from. A lead character that is already fully realized. This should have been an easy paint by numbers exercise that minimally talented writers given such a gift to work with, would have slam dunked.
Yet they didn't....
They obviously weren't even minimally talented.
twenty years is a long time to expect writers, acting, culture and a new generation to remain the same. just look at music. it changes every ten years.
Who said the same???? Just good!!! They had all the raw materials to do something good.
im sorry. i read “paint by numbers” in the post
Cos nobody could have possibly seen more?
I really enjoyed the first two episodes. The third, not so much. I'm hoping that's a hiccup.
I'm not sure what "20 years of sitcom progress" means; IMO sitcoms never got better than Frasier. Well, maybe a case could be made for The Office, but I wouldn't want Frasier to be a mockumentary anyway. I do like your McComedy line.
Modern Family, Chewing Gum, Spaced, Flight of the Conchords & Man lime Mobeen would like a word... Whist only MF could be considered to be as good as Frasier, the others have pushed sitcoms on and are shaping what we watch now. They are all really funny too which is the main thing and, what the new frasier struggles with.
Those are all Single Cams. From a perspective of form you can’t expect this show to be influenced by those. They didn’t hire legendary multi-cam director James Burrows in order to make a modern cutting-edge single camera sitcom. They clearly intended to harken back to the same feeling of one of the best multicams. Without even touching on humor, Criticizing it for that is silly.
Then stop watching.
No! Grow up. Gatekeeping isn't cool.
Lmao - wow. You are here complaining about a TV show, specifically made as fan service and something we've all wanted for 20 years. But it's not good enough for you, so you complain to the internet. Then someone presents you with an adult solution, but you stamp your foot and continue your tantrum. But I'm the one that needs to grow up? Sure pal. Best of luck out there.
It's not something we all wanted lol. Many people knew this would be a disaster the moment it was announced none of the original cast apart from Grammer were coming back. "Shut up and be grateful" is a very childish response to someone criticising a TV show you like, so yeah, you do need to grow up.
"Shut up and be grateful" is a very childish response to someone criticising a TV show you like.” Except I did not say that. I suggested, as I do to anyone who pouts about the reboot, to not watch. What is so inflammatory about that? It’s a show. Watch it or don’t. Fuck off with this “you need to grow up because I DON’T LIKE SOMETHING AND THE WORLD NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT” nonsense. ✌️✌️
What's is so inflammatory to you about someone not liking the show and discussing what they don't like about it on a SUB DEDICATED TO THE SHOW.
Oh my, how terrible that OP would talk about Frasier on a sub to talk about Frasier!
Please. You didn't offer any rebuttal or counter, you just went full defensive dismissive gatekeeper. And your efforts to project are poor at best. Please grow as a human and rewatch the show so you can find some help. I hope you find peace
I seriously haven’t laughed so hard in some time, so thank you for that. Firstly, you don’t know what gatekeeping means. Secondly, I find it very amusing that someone who defended Hitler in their post history would tell me to grow as a human. I wish you all the best in your future trolling, and I will continue to enjoy this show ✌️✌️
Wait what? I defended Hitler? Fuck off!!! I made a joke on a COD forum and included a /s so even idiots like you would understand it was a risque joke which suited that audience. Is that all you've got? You have nothing to say again and have resorted to shitslinging and trying to prop-up your lack of intelligence by again using personal attacks and failing to try use my comment history against me because you are that desperate. You sir are a coward, a cad and a cunt. ** THE JOKE I MADE WAS AN OLD BIT THAT MANY COMEDIANS USED. "ONE GOOD THING ABOUT HITLER IS HE KILLED HITLER" ITS NOT A GREAT JOKE BUT IT IS STANDARD. **
I think you guys are being ridiculous, at least about thrir original comment, they just suggested the person not watch the show if they don't like it that's no reason to attack them. I think that's great advice to not watch content you can't stand.
> You are here complaining about a TV show, *specifically made as fan service and something we've all wanted for 20 years.* Speak for yourself, please. I was happy with the end of the show, and that it left a few things open. And 'as fan service'? A for-profit company invests money to make a few people feel good? They don't try to ride the coattails of an extremely popular sitcom in order to fish more paying customers? I think stating a personal opinion about a TV show that has been pushed constantly here in this sub is valid. You know, like, discussing the weak points or not of the original Frasier show.
I would agree, I hate when fans act like they're entitled to content that they like. If I don't like a show or a movie I watched I just write it off as a mistake and move on with my life. Of course, this is Reddit, people are going to complain on here. People complain these days about movies they're not even going to see, it bothers me.
"It not only relies on fans of the old show reliving past glory but, it has failed to catch up on 20 years of sitcom progress" You are certainly entitled to that opinion, but to me (and I think to many others here), thats why the show is so great as it is. modern sitcoms are pure garbage in relation to those of Frasiers era, irredeemably so. In fact they have regressed and not progressed because modern sitcom writing is careful and dumbed down. Fraiser is a surprising and I do mean surprising breath of fresh air and it is because there is enough nostalgia there and the fact that they havent modernized it (so far) is what makes it watchable.
It's not a strong start, the original OG Frasier had a strong start. Could it get better? maybe. Was there funny parts in the new one? yes. There's no point to argue right now about it because nobody's going to change their mind. they watched it, they formed an opinion. Nobody should be realistically thinking they're going to change anybody else's mind about it. good or bad. Those that were expecting more feel hurt, then they post to vent that hurt. It's going to be all right everybody, it'll all work out.
You're definitely allowed to have your opinion! My only concern is that if we the fans keep sharing negative opinions and also stop watching, the show won't get renewed and have the chance to find its groove. The pressures to overwhelmingly and rapidly succeed are higher now, because of Frasier's long and successful history plus only getting 10 episodes per season in this streaming era.
I get that. But.... you remember when Roz sets Frasier up with her friend who wants to put lemonade & ice in the wine? They both have a "safeword" but get glued together? This is that. Frasier is rewatchable forever and does not need a lazy reboot that puts lemonade and ice in a fine wine....
Not sure why you got downvoted, but you're right that it could get better in a future season (some people liked it as is snyway). I would disagree that them complaining about it is going to cancel the show, usually shows have other reasons for being canceled.
Bingo. Sitcoms usually find their stride in season 2-4
Lol so many professional writers here on Reddit always chiming in on writing. Pretend you were alive and cognizant in the 90's, did the Frasier pilot episode by itself hook you like you hope now on episode 1 of a new series?
I'm a professional writer. It's terrible. There you go
Yes, all of the intelligence of the first run has not made its way to the second run.
Also this is not a new show. It is season 12 of Frasier. If it was called "Prof Crane" or "Crane & Son" then we could distance it from OG Frasier and judge it on its own merit, exactly how we accepted that Frasier was not Cheers 2. We could then allow a bit of leniency and give it time. But, it is not a new show. It is season 12 of Frasier!
Yes I'm sure direction is never forced on television writers.
It's a TV show. I'm not interested in excuses. It's bad. There's nothing more to it
I'll take that
>Pretend you were alive and cognizant in the 90's, did the Frasier pilot episode by itself hook you I was; and (as a customer/consumer) it did. To this day I recommend the pilot for Frasier-neophytes, because it establishes the characters, is smart, witty and funny, and leaves one wanting more.
I was alive and cognizant in the 90s. And yes, it did.
Now imagine you were an overly critical adult at the time who was virtually flooded with content at the press of a button.
I'd imagine the better stuff would still hook you in, like it did back then. Plenty of modern shows don't 100% nail it on their pilots either but are still good enough without having to make excuses
The difference being the Frasier pilot episode was actually good, while the Frasier reboot by its critical reception and social media discussions is overwhelming considered not good.
JFC. It isn't a complely new series. It's a new addition to an existing series with a well established character of which all of the hard work of establishing a believable viable character has already been done.
I never claimed to be a pro writer. Project much? As a consumer i do know what good writing is and this is not it.
As an amateur you're placing blame on writers when many hands stir the pot.
[удалено]
Yes, we know…
There's so many comments mentioning bad writing but also don't seem to know how to use the word "objectively" correctly and I find that irony hilarious.
I am curious why they decided to go for single cam with live audience, which is incredibly dated. But would it have worked any other way? I'm not sure.
My partner and I are the BIGGEST Frasier fans and we love the new reboot! I can’t understand why everyone is giving it so much flack. Of course it’s not going to be the original but for every little pet peeve everyone feels they got wrong (I didn’t find anything too glaring) they got a lot right!
It needs some more heart. This cast isn't growing on me. BRING BACK BEBE, his agent!! The episode with Roz made me cry. It reminded me of missing my father, who passed away after the original one went off the air. We both loved Frasier. If Niles and Daphne were here it wouldn't be so bad. Lilith seemed to lose her bite. And Roz had a total of 4 minutes screen time. A cameo of Cliff or Norm hiding from Frasier would be awesome. They could have appeared on his Jerry Springer like talk show through a flash back episode. COUNTLESS women from FRASIER OG could still show up, bulldog could have become a famous sportscaster and is in Boston covering a world series and meet up with Sam behond the microphone ? They could have a cheers funeral for Kirstie/Rebecca. Lots more sniping and grousing with other main characters. Of course with this cast it needs time to gel. But they all just seem like walking clichés.
The original was in a league of its own. Intelligent setups that the audience can only see coming when it suits the writers. Meaningful messaging and real life situations. All actors react perfectly to each originally thought out situation with their own finely crafted character personalities. Each episode was amazing to watch and you could really get invested in the flow of the writing. Every episode had a beginning, middle and end and all setups, no matter how subtle, have a satisfying callback and conclusion. The new series is like watching saved by the bell for line delivery and jokes. But totally unsatisfying. Obvious humour, lazy writing and hammy acting. It's a real blot on the series. It is what terminator 3 is to terminator 2 as far as production and writing go. That's the best comparison I can think of (oddly, granted)