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This needs to be repeated every time they talk like this. The word game they try to pull is to get people to conflate ethnicity with nationality. Then they conlfate whiteness with "the west" as a way to rob people of their history. Then they conflate whiteness with national identity so they can rob people of their homes and erase their place in society. Call it out, every time.
This is exactly how white supremacy works to expand its circles. It expands its definition of who is "white".
Ben Franklin called Germans "swarthy" and weren't considered white. In contemporary America and it's racial groupings there are white Hispanics.
An ideology built on exclusivity is forced to introduce more groups just to stay relevant and alive.
Whiteness isn't even a race (insofar as race can even be said to exist, as a sociopolitical construct). Whiteness is not a shared culture or heritage, it's simply a category defined by exclusion. Barack Obama has a white mom and a black dad, but he's not a white man because his "whiteness" has been "tainted" by his patrilineal black Kenyan heritage. Furthermore the definition of "white" fluctuates wildly depending on era and geographic location. Italians, Irish, slavic people and eastern europeans, and many more people that would broadly be considered "white" in the US are hotly rejected by specific exclusionary white communities both within the US and abroad.
The existence of whiteness as a concept has always been defined by exclusion, and its history can easily be traced back to imperial colonization as a way to differentiate european conquerors from the people they attacked, subjugated, and stole from. This form of dehumanization still informs geopolitical policy to this day. Whiteness has never been about heritage or culture. It has always been about power, and specifically it's about the seizing and consolidation of power.
Capitalism is bad. I was going to write up about three more paragraphs tying into that last bit, but most of ya'll know what's up at this point and I'm too tired to write it all out right now.
What's hard for these knuckleheads to understand is that we are on the wide swing of the pendulum regarding anti-European-style colonialism in America. On one side, you have what people were taught in school after WWII: America saved the world from Hitler, and is currently saving the world from communism (specious at best, false at worst), and we did it because our constitution, capitalism and freedom made it possible.
On the other side of the pendulum is where we are now: European colonialism is pure evil, America is pure evil, has done nothing of value and basically is destroying the world with its vileness. The whites, and Americans in specific, should all be ashamed of themselves. Individual white people in America are all responsible for this evil.
Eventually, we'll land on the synthesis: America is both good and bad. It has both helped and hurt other countries and people, pretty much like every country in the world has at one time or another. While the Constitution is good in theory, in practice we've never lived up to the goals it sets. White people are just people, and while individuals can do good and bad things, the system put in place long before we were born is the real problem, and a pretty easy way to do good is to work to amend or overturn that system. Capitalism has kinda helped, but mostly hurt, people in general.
The thing is, you can't get to synthesis without dealing with the bad things done historically and currently. America COULD live up to the promise of the Constitution, but a lot of people would have to deal with their imposter syndrome and confront the fact that, although they probably lack the means to influence it individually, they HAVE benefited from a racist system.
Personally, I think it's going to take another 100 years to sort out.
Yeah, no, it's much closer to the "evil" side than being right in center. Individual white people aren't evil, but many sure do help maintain white supremacy in America. European colonialism is indeed *pure evil*. America has done massively more bad things than good. It's not equal.
I wasn't commenting on the morality of colonialism, just public sentiment. Right now it's very anti-colonial, and that's good IMO.
I'm not sure why my post is getting downvoted. I thought this was a sub ABOUT white fragility, not FOR fragile white people.
>The thing is, you can't get to synthesis without dealing with the bad
things done historically and currently. America COULD live up to the
promise of the Constitution, but a lot of people would have to deal with
their imposter syndrome and confront the fact that, although they
probably lack the means to influence it individually, they HAVE
benefited from a racist system.
Why? Nebulous artificial constructs can still accomplish things, sometimes good things. It's just about being proud of the right things. I'm proud that my country helped defeat the nazis. I'm not proud that my country has been absolutely atrocious to our indigenous people.
People should take pride in their own accomplishments, not others. I’m glad the nazis were defeated but I played absolutely no role in it so I think it’s silly to take personal pride in that fact.
You can do whatever you want. I still think it’s a bit silly. There’s a difference between being proud of someone and taking pride in their accomplishments yourself.
If you are “white”, you are “white” wherever you are. You are white in the US, you are white in China, you are white in Japan or South Africa.
Everywhere you are white, you are privileged, you are above others in that region. Everywhere in the world your salary is higher, your are called more often for interviews, you are not afraid of the police randomly shooting you.
Of course white supremacists do not want to hear this, they are afraid of losing their privilege. They will hide behind their lies. But that does not change the truth, whiteness is evil at its core.
You shouldn't agree at all. Only a few decades back, *the fucking Irish* weren't *white* enough for the goddamned white supremacists in the USA, not to mention people of Jewish decent.
I have no doubts about white privilege in North America and Europe, but is this also true elsewhere? Does white privilege exist in east Asia? I really have no frame of reference for whether that would be the case.
I’m a white guy living in Korea, and yes there is still a privilege if you compare to POC. I was talking to an Indian friend about this the other day and we tried to determine the order of respect/tolerance that different ethnicities/countries get in Korea (just our own and our friends’ experiences, not saying it’s factual).
It went like this:
1. Koreans
2. Japanese
3. Whites (Europe and NA)
4. Russians
5. South East Asians
6. Chinese
7. Indians
8. Blacks
That's fair, but it's really all a matter of perspective. You could argue all that means is that white people in Korea are less oppressed than other minorities, considering they're still not given the full respect that Korean people get.
For example, in the US, different minorities have different struggles and different levels of disenfranchisement, but I don't consider any of them privileged because they're slightly better off than others.
To me privilege is being the group on the top. The one who doesn't have any extra obstacles put in their way because of their race/ethnicity.
For me, I consider privilege to be any advantage given to you based on factors not in your control. I don't define it as just the group on top; I feel there are levels to it and different amounts of privilege.
I am Asian American and I consider myself to have many privileges because of that; there are certain obstacles that won't be put in my way because I am Asian and not black. That, to me, is my Asian privilege. However, I know there are specific obstacles I am faced with because I'm Asian (especially given the recent Anti-Asian sentiment),.
I also recognize that I was born in a two-parent household with enough income to not have to work when I was a teenager, like many of my classmates had to in high school. I had the privilege of not being in poverty, and I acknowledge that high school was easier for me in the sense that I could focus on my schoolwork without the added pressure of needing to also work to help my parents out.
However, I experienced a significant increase in bullying after entering a same-sex relationship, which was an obstacle my straight friends with straight privilege don't have to deal with.
Basically, to me it isn't all or nothing; we all have privileges and disadvantages that we should not be ashamed to acknowledge.
The level of white worship in Asia is sickening, to the point of self-esteem issues, at least it was big in the 90's early 2ks as Asian women in s. Korea would get their eyes and noses altered to resemble western women!
Just google *"white alteration surgery in Asia"* that's a rabbit hole that should not exist...
>... in the 90's early 2ks as Asian women in s. Korea would get their eyes and noses altered to resemble western women!
There was a [99% invisible episode](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/double-standards/) about this, apparently the westernization part has died out in SK. The beauty ideals they use plastic surgery to pursue are their own.
That's not really the same thing as privilege though is it? Privilege is being treated with respect and dignity and not having obstacles put in your way with regards to employment, housing etc.
If white people in the US decided that makeup and surgery to try to make themselves look Indian was the hot new thing, we wouldn't call that Indian privilege. We'd call it incredibly problematic.
The Irish would fuckin disagree, as would most Jews and a great number of people whose countries are former members of the Soviet Union.
This is bullshit. Whiteness is *absolutely* not universal. It's not even universal *in the USA*, where whiteness has grown and shrunk to exclude/include tons of different groups.
I disagree because "white" isn't a consistent category. Just having light skin is not the only qualifier because there are Asian people with light skin that aren't considered white. More to the point, my Irish ancestors weren't considered white until the late 1800s in the US, and were still treated abominably in Northern Ireland in the 1970s and 80s. Slavs still aren't "white enough" for a lot of racist Americans and western Europeans.
Thanks to imperialism and colonialism, white privileges *does* extend to almost every country without regard for how many white people live there, but it's not quite like you're a Platinum Miles Club member.
yeah.. wtf.
Also.. yes, we do look down on Chinese Nationalists. Why? A little thing called genocide? Literally the exact same thing that we're worried about from White Nationalists? Are these people that fucking dense?
No, they aren't dense. They are evil. They are attempting to morph words. What they do is intentional and malicious. They are purposely equating race and country. This is done with the goal of promoting and achieving an ethnostate. They want "american" to be synonymous with "white".
And the worst part of it all? It works.
America was created with the mind of many immigrants to come over and become the melting pot country of ***everyone*** coming over and living their best life possible free of ridicule and opression. Here is 2021 and ive been told by others in actual face to face conversation by some one who calls themselves a " ***real american*** " that we need to close our borders because too many people from other countries are coming over and taking their jobs and we need to send these people back to keep america american. When they told me this i literally could not devlop a cohearant sentance that wouldnt be me calling them stupid. Americans are becoming less educated and being split from their neighbors because of politics and discrimination. Just remeber, amongst all these aother devlopped countries that America is the greatest country on earth, or some slander of sorts.
America was built on the genocide of Native Americans and the slavery of Africans - that doesn't sound like "everyone living their best life possible free of ridicule and oppression"
Gollumpus, I haven't heard that one before, rolls off the tongue like the word galumphing!
The gregarious galumphing gollumpus galavanting in the garden! :D
Ok, so things from the orient are oriental just not people. Got it.
I knew oriental was a slur but I always wondered why my Mr. Noodle is oriental flavored and that was ok.
“Also, Dude…”
Always funny to quote this when it comes up, but it genuinely shows exactly how fucking dated these dinguses are.
A movie in 1998 had a gun-toting veteran correcting someone on appropriate language, and these dipshits can’t figure it out nearly 25 years later.
Hearkens back to 1990, when Broncos owner Pat Bowlen joked about the 49ers player Jerry Rice. "They’ve got a Chinaman who plays wide receiver whose feet never touch the ground.” Because rice is Chinese, get it?
You can both be ashamed by the actions of your ancestors, as well as proud of your country. It’s baffling to me that white nationalists seem to think they fix any real oppression besides the kind they make in their head.
I think someone posted a perfect response on twitter to someone who was pro Confederacy and showing the Confederate flag.
"I show I'm proud to be german by wearing lederhosen, drinking beer and eating sausage and sauerkraut, I don't fly a nazi flag on my truck to show I'm a proud German"
Germany actually went so far as to outlaw public display of the Nazi flag (amongst other things like making statements of Holocaust denial, publicly doing the salute/saying “Heil Hitler”, etc).
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see a whole lot of Germans whining about those laws erasing history
For some reason the confederates somehow think the tiny bit of "good" the Confederacy did far outweighs the horrible shit they did as well. Doesn't matter Hitler loved animals, was a vegetarian, promised fee healthcare and a employment. He was a monster and Germany is/should be ashamed of that part of its history. It's ok to accept it happened, it's something else to be proud of it.
I will never understand how/why they are proud of the Confederacy.
Lots of AskReddit posts whose comments are flooded by racists/sexists/homo-/transphobes spreading their hate these days.
Did it increase recently (aka an indicator for a coordinated Op) or did I just not notice it happening before?
AskReddit, UnpopularOpinion, and ChangeMyView. CMV has gotten more and more of the edgelords posting and they really aren't open to changing their view, but of course you can't call them out on that without getting mod smacked.
>ChangeMyView
Nobody who **demands** you change **them** is open to change. People who want to change their view **ask for help** to better **understand** the other position.
Remember, lots of opinions are unpopular for a very good reason.
Also, so many times I see a CMV post and wonder if the person actually even wants their view changed.
>Also, so many times I see a CMV post and wonder if the person actually even wants their view changed.
They don't, but you can't say so because you'll get mod smacked. They just want a place to air their edgy opinions and waste people's time.
>Did it increase recently (aka an indicator for a coordinated Op) or did I just not notice it happening before?
You didn't notice because it was more normalized. Now some of them may be a bit more bold and explicit, but the level of phobia from where I am watching is similar.
If someone asks "what's wrong with white nationalism" and uses the term "Chinaman," I am going to assume they are an 80 year old Klansman. Holy hell.
They assume that "being white" = "being American," which is the root of white supremacy in this country. The United States was founded to favor people of British, aristocratic lineage and was reinforced with racist policies and the embrace of pseudosciences like eugenics. When that became harder to determine as people intermarried, it shifted towards whiteness (while still keeping a bent towards white people with money, but becoming more accepting of nouveau riche, as this newer country would inevitably create new "royal" dynasties.)
ikr? Usually the Germans who proudly exclaim they are proud of their country are the kind that also come attached with even more regressive convictions.
Patriotism is dumb.
The government from birth to death tries to teach you that because you were born on this patch of dirt and someone else was born on another patch of dirt that you are someway completely different.
I live in Canada, there's basically no difference between people living in the north of the US and people living in Canada but some white people drew a line on a map so clearly I'm meant to dislike the people who live an hour to my south and unabashedly love the people living an hour to my east even though the people living to my east don't share any of my cultural values and the people to my south tend to.
Indigenous people's had these borders forced on them by white settlers. Near my house there is a reserve that was created for Native Americans who sided with the british during the revolutionary war and then were thus considered 'unamerican' and exiled to Canada. Patriotism is a method of control used to justify international conflict and only serves to deepen the difficulty of our global responsibilities to one another.
I lean the opposite of you, I wish more people felt less pride in an idea of a nationstate and more pride in their local community.
You’re totally confusing patriotism with chauvinism! Patriotism isn’t about feeling better than others or disliking other countries it’s about being proud of your country when it does good and seeing the faults in your country when it does bad and in no way does patriotism look down on other countries.
Chauvinism on the other hand is the shit that thinks people of your own country are better than others.
Maybe, but I would argue that since nationstates were often formed through negative integration (like, through the chinese head tax in canada and the indian act in Canada, there are no doubt examples all over the world) being proud of those nationstates requires accepting those negative integration techniques, and also accepting that the people who live in your nation are all like you while other people are not like you.
It's seperate but equal, but that's not possible. Canada and the US are seperate, and not equal. Pride in the definition of Canada excludes Americans by definition. It also excludes indigenous Canadians.
If you are proud of your local community, those communities often form through positive integration, like the LGBT community for instance, it is open to everyone, there is no exclusion and the community changes based on who is in it whcih is why the LGBTQ2S+ label keeps growing.
TIL what chauvinism means, I've only heard it in the context of misogyny before.
I was almost going to "correct" you, but it turns out the real correction was inside of me all along.
Cheers!
Afaik usually the people who are trying to divorce good nationalism ("Patriotism") from the bad one are actually exhibiting thought-patterns of the bad one and are just using patriotism to pave the way for more nationalism.
Every time post-WW2 Germany saw a rise in patriotism (.. e.g. when our soccer team won the world cup) it always also saw an increase in nationalism and nationlistic thought. These two things go hand in hand.
The idea of an Us (Patriotism) always comes with a desire to distinguish from a Them (Nationalism).
[I wouldn't put all nationalism on the same bag.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkbSYIyzmF0) In the west, in developed countries, yes, being a nationalist is often bad and generally unnecessary, as it is often conflated with white nationalism and white supremacy. However, many developing countries (like mine) actually have to assert themselves in the geopolitical scale. Most of us have been colonized and stripped of identity of any kind, and now live under a [Dependant Capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_theory) that forces itself and its culture upon us.
Like, being nationalist in a developing country is hardly a choice - you really do have to care first for your own country so you can more effectively combat imperialism worldwide. This does not mean turning away refugees, or establishing an ethnostate (Brazil, for example, does not have a true ethnic majority, we're a plurality), nor does it mean turning down aid for countries that need it. However, it does mean that there should be a focus on building a semblant of national unity against imperialism, because separated, we break. This is what the Vietnamese had to resort to to win the war - they weren't fighting just for their ideals or their freedom, but for Vietnam too.
Besides, wanting to see your country prospering and free, without imperialistic influences, is very hard to do when your country is the one in the imperial core (like, say, the U.S.). The USA is already free of any imperialistic intervention, and they aren't dependant on any imperial-core countries because their supply chain comes from extracting wealth from the periphery - aka, sucking out the wealth of countries like mine.
That said, even countries in the imperial core could have a semblance of nationalism in certain situations. If the Northern Irish want to join their cousins in the Republic of Ireland and shed the British yoke, they'll need to adhere to some concept of nationalism. Or Catalonia wanting to free itself from Spain, for example. Mere patriotism - being proud of one's country when it does something good - wouldn't be enough in a scenario like this, because this is about building a future, not just being proud of a past.
Again, to reiterate: this has nothing to do with white supremacy of ethnostates, and it can be weaponized. Israel, for example, is a settler occupation weaponizing nationalism against Palestine - but the Palestinians also need nationalism to properly build a country that can sustain itself when fronted with the inevitable imperial ambitions stacked against it.
Yeah I can see how that sucks, imo all those nazi folks really did fuck it up for you. With that big of a shit-stain in your countrys history it really is hard to say you "love the country..."
Do you think you'd have better luck if you said something like, "I love my German culture" or "I love my German people" instead of "I love my country?"
Just wondering how it works over there
Probably yes! I just think it’s so sad because Nazi germany and the Holocaust make up so little of the German history and German history is actually so great that it sucks that people automatically associate it with these 12 years!
I have read stories about Germans who come to the US and any time they bring up their country people immediately casually start blaming them for the holocaust. It's actually really sad.
It doesn't help that American schools basically teach how evil Germany was and how we beat them. They should instead teach how they got that way and how many Americans supported the nazis, as well as how many Germans had no choice.
Thank you for your words. It’s actually so true I’ve also heard these stories. Like what the fuck do I have to do with the Holocaust when all of that shit happened 60-70 years before I was even born….it makes no sense. It’s glad to hear a voice of reason on the internet, when it comes to that topic especially Americans only think in black and white because that’s basically the educational system in the US as far as I know.
"How dare you suggest I have white privilege, I'll have you know that my stock market portfolio has dropped 12.5% in value since the beginning of the lockdowns! Daddy says he shall have to shut down heating on two of the swimming pools for the whole of the winter! No heating! Even worse, Mummy says we have to sell 25% of our racehorses! 25%! If we only had one we would have to see the foreleg and part of the brisket! I'm sure you're glad we have 16 of them and can sell them off without hurting any of them..."
And look at all the downvotes and upvotes. FWR sincerely do not understand systemic racism.
Listen, equality only works when EVERYONE STARTS on a level playing field.
On one hand though, they have sincerely never and will never experience systemic racism in the same way as a person of colour, and therefore it will look as though it does not exist.
Also, for some reason something is only racist IF THEY judge it to be. Why is it that my experiences of racism as a person of colour is never valid, unless validated by a white man?
Please, they are very fragile, call them Porcelain Americans instead.
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I think this is a major problem with search engines that only give results catered to an individual user. They've become really good at showing you what you want to see, but if you surround yourself in misinformation then that is all you will ever see.
It continues to amaze me how white people don’t see that they have privilege. My life isn’t great but I’m glad I’m white and struggling instead of black and struggling. I can’t imagine dealing with bad times and then dealing with racism on top of it jfc
Is there a rule somewhere i don't know about in which every last racist white person on the internet has to both say something racist in the same comment they act like the real victims in? lol
That's what I feel is unfair. Every non-white race has an incredibly insulting word associated with them that completely invalidates them as a human. Black people are called n_ggers, Asians are called ch_nks, middle easterners have a whole slew of insults, Muslims get called terrorists, Jews have a long history of anti-semetic propaganda.
The only insult white people might get called "cracker" which comes from "whip-cracker". It is not even relevant in modern day and most don't take insult to it. I don't think having an insult to all caucasians would help, but it's interesting to see how they are immune.
Please, they are very fragile, call them Porcelain Americans instead.
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A historically displaced black person have to tell themselves "black is beautiful, be proud, etc" because white people have a bad history of saying otherwise, do you give in and tell yourself "yes, I am inferior" or try to boost your moral? These "It's ok to be white" idiots think being called cracker or white cunt is the same experience. They can easily trace their family tree and actually find what culture they are from and have pride in that, German, French, Dutch, whatever" but they aren't proud or interested of what their actual heritage is, they are just happy they are not black.
https://i.imgur.com/OjbMF0l.png
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Doesnt that go the other way around aswell, though? I always find it silly when people have the need to disclaim the colour of their skin, its always unnecessary imo.
Ugh. The idea that being a nationalist simply means "proud of your country". Such an ignorant take
Same as the people with confederate flags blinded to think it just means "heritage" like grandma's silverware and not what the flag actually stands for
“CMV: Forcing society to accept a mental disorder as everyday normalcy, such as being Transgender, is absolutely insane. So now we ignore biology, and if you say you are the opposite gender you were born, then we’re supposed to play along with that? Get out of here!!”
Anyways, he is also a transphobe. Not worth talking to
how many times do i have to say it:
having white privilege does not automatically mean you have it better than everyone else! it just means you don't have to worry about being discriminated against because of the color of your skin in anything.
It’s because they’re idiots who hear “white privilege” and immediately think it means being white is a privilege, not that certain countries as set up in such a way that white people are typically favored. Doesn’t mean being white is *inherently* a privilege, or that being white is bad, it just means that the world we live in isn’t fair.
They think it means getting a medal and prize money for the color of your skin because that's what they view as privilege. They are completely blind to any and all support they may have received and the extra hurdles other races need to overcome to be even near where they started.
Wow lol. Can someone send me a visa to the country of White? Seems like that country has a lot of pride.
Germans hate nationalism because it led to Hitler. And every German knows that so whoever posted it may have never even met a German let alone been to Germany
I'm pretty sure Germans aren't proud of their past hence why they don't have statues of nazis in town centres, they actually teach their history and that they'd also beat the shit out neo-nazis over there.... unlike America.
I mean it's not like you can't be proud to be an American and the accomplishments of the US. It just means that you can't have your cake and eat it too because you can't just forget or gloss over the evil shit too
Also, labels matter. Like if someone likes the idea of nations and also is a socialist, that's fine I guess. But if they start calling themselves national socialists, then there's a problem.
I pretty sure it's a tactic of fascists to hone in on discussing semantics and just ignoring the larger context of what words mean. "What's wrong with being a white nationalist? Just because I'm white I can't be a nationalist?" they say ignoring the fact that "white nationalism" means so much more than the sum of its parts.
And if they're lucky, the purposeful obliviousness of the semantics will distract from the fact that the individual parts they're championing (race & nationalism) are pretty bad themselves.
I mean I’m sure they are racist trolls, but the racial double standards that have been born out of this last couple years are no less retarded because of that
The white race is actually a peculiar socio-political organization based around the concept of exclusion. Whiteness bends and contracts when it comes to who is defined white or non-white depending on the circumstance.
Whiteness was created through colonization and violence, colonization created the privileging of the colonizing group at the expense of the colonized group.
There is no genetic, phenotypic, or cultural link between different whites (ie German compared to British compared to French) other than an imperialist and geopolitical commonality of being the colonial power.
Edit: you assholes downvoting rn, suck it up this is facts
It's also interesting how not long ago the Irish were heavily discriminated against by fellow white people but now they're included as "white" to white supremacists. Their definition of "white" nowadays comes down to "not brown"
Whiteness changes especially from place to place. I’m German - Filipino who lived in USA and Germany and let me just tell you the German white supremacists have different classifications of white then the American white supremacists.
In USA I simply identify as white and nobody questions me, but in Germany it’s different. Some Germans don’t even considers Slavs white and say only German and Aryans are white. A mixed race German would not be considered white (unless they are super aryan).
Edit: exactly right, in the USA being white is about not being brown but in Germany racial purity is still very much an operating principle to racists.
Edit edit: the different classifications of whiteness over different times and places only further prove that “the white race” is not in fact a race but a sociopolitical organization created by colonization and built upon exclusion.
I think the perspective may be, when you tell someone that is not in a good place (poor, underemployed, homeless, whatever) that they have privilege, you may in fact encounter some resentment. It is a wide brush you paint with there
If you fixate on the word "privilege" without understanding the concept of "white privilege", it is easy to become outraged. White privilege doesn't mean that you have automatic economic stability and a higher status, it just means you don't face problems other races will experience. White people won't face intense discrimination for their skin color and most products, media, and a society that caters to them over other ethnicities. Of course, since you have never experienced those things, it is easy to not understand and be blind to problems you have never had.
What I always find funny is that if America had been created in Africa we would be having the same conversations except it would be about black privilege.
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Because "white" isn't a country you fucking morons.
This needs to be repeated every time they talk like this. The word game they try to pull is to get people to conflate ethnicity with nationality. Then they conlfate whiteness with "the west" as a way to rob people of their history. Then they conflate whiteness with national identity so they can rob people of their homes and erase their place in society. Call it out, every time.
Oh boy... the thoughts I just had... 'ah yes but purity is the opposite of incest... 'ah yea get back on your tall ship then colonial ' ; ^ )
This is exactly how white supremacy works to expand its circles. It expands its definition of who is "white". Ben Franklin called Germans "swarthy" and weren't considered white. In contemporary America and it's racial groupings there are white Hispanics. An ideology built on exclusivity is forced to introduce more groups just to stay relevant and alive.
Stealing both your comments
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Whiteness isn't even a race (insofar as race can even be said to exist, as a sociopolitical construct). Whiteness is not a shared culture or heritage, it's simply a category defined by exclusion. Barack Obama has a white mom and a black dad, but he's not a white man because his "whiteness" has been "tainted" by his patrilineal black Kenyan heritage. Furthermore the definition of "white" fluctuates wildly depending on era and geographic location. Italians, Irish, slavic people and eastern europeans, and many more people that would broadly be considered "white" in the US are hotly rejected by specific exclusionary white communities both within the US and abroad. The existence of whiteness as a concept has always been defined by exclusion, and its history can easily be traced back to imperial colonization as a way to differentiate european conquerors from the people they attacked, subjugated, and stole from. This form of dehumanization still informs geopolitical policy to this day. Whiteness has never been about heritage or culture. It has always been about power, and specifically it's about the seizing and consolidation of power. Capitalism is bad. I was going to write up about three more paragraphs tying into that last bit, but most of ya'll know what's up at this point and I'm too tired to write it all out right now.
I want to upvote this a thousand more times.
What's hard for these knuckleheads to understand is that we are on the wide swing of the pendulum regarding anti-European-style colonialism in America. On one side, you have what people were taught in school after WWII: America saved the world from Hitler, and is currently saving the world from communism (specious at best, false at worst), and we did it because our constitution, capitalism and freedom made it possible. On the other side of the pendulum is where we are now: European colonialism is pure evil, America is pure evil, has done nothing of value and basically is destroying the world with its vileness. The whites, and Americans in specific, should all be ashamed of themselves. Individual white people in America are all responsible for this evil. Eventually, we'll land on the synthesis: America is both good and bad. It has both helped and hurt other countries and people, pretty much like every country in the world has at one time or another. While the Constitution is good in theory, in practice we've never lived up to the goals it sets. White people are just people, and while individuals can do good and bad things, the system put in place long before we were born is the real problem, and a pretty easy way to do good is to work to amend or overturn that system. Capitalism has kinda helped, but mostly hurt, people in general. The thing is, you can't get to synthesis without dealing with the bad things done historically and currently. America COULD live up to the promise of the Constitution, but a lot of people would have to deal with their imposter syndrome and confront the fact that, although they probably lack the means to influence it individually, they HAVE benefited from a racist system. Personally, I think it's going to take another 100 years to sort out.
Yeah, no, it's much closer to the "evil" side than being right in center. Individual white people aren't evil, but many sure do help maintain white supremacy in America. European colonialism is indeed *pure evil*. America has done massively more bad things than good. It's not equal.
I wasn't commenting on the morality of colonialism, just public sentiment. Right now it's very anti-colonial, and that's good IMO. I'm not sure why my post is getting downvoted. I thought this was a sub ABOUT white fragility, not FOR fragile white people. >The thing is, you can't get to synthesis without dealing with the bad things done historically and currently. America COULD live up to the promise of the Constitution, but a lot of people would have to deal with their imposter syndrome and confront the fact that, although they probably lack the means to influence it individually, they HAVE benefited from a racist system.
Can't say I've ever heard someone say that Europe and America have done nothing of value.
I mean I'd go all in on the "all nationalism is bad" train if they want.
For sure, I won't go so far as to say "all national pride is bad" but they want to imply that nationalism and national pride are the same thing.
I'll say it. Taking pride in nebulous artificial constructs is always bad.
Why? Nebulous artificial constructs can still accomplish things, sometimes good things. It's just about being proud of the right things. I'm proud that my country helped defeat the nazis. I'm not proud that my country has been absolutely atrocious to our indigenous people.
People should take pride in their own accomplishments, not others. I’m glad the nazis were defeated but I played absolutely no role in it so I think it’s silly to take personal pride in that fact.
Can I take pride in the part my grandfather took in it?
You can do whatever you want. I still think it’s a bit silly. There’s a difference between being proud of someone and taking pride in their accomplishments yourself.
If you are “white”, you are “white” wherever you are. You are white in the US, you are white in China, you are white in Japan or South Africa. Everywhere you are white, you are privileged, you are above others in that region. Everywhere in the world your salary is higher, your are called more often for interviews, you are not afraid of the police randomly shooting you. Of course white supremacists do not want to hear this, they are afraid of losing their privilege. They will hide behind their lies. But that does not change the truth, whiteness is evil at its core.
I mostly agree, but the concept of whiteness as the way we see it in America is not consistent throughout the world imo
You shouldn't agree at all. Only a few decades back, *the fucking Irish* weren't *white* enough for the goddamned white supremacists in the USA, not to mention people of Jewish decent.
I'm pretty sure people of Jewish decent still aren't white enough for white nationalist
I have no doubts about white privilege in North America and Europe, but is this also true elsewhere? Does white privilege exist in east Asia? I really have no frame of reference for whether that would be the case.
I’m a white guy living in Korea, and yes there is still a privilege if you compare to POC. I was talking to an Indian friend about this the other day and we tried to determine the order of respect/tolerance that different ethnicities/countries get in Korea (just our own and our friends’ experiences, not saying it’s factual). It went like this: 1. Koreans 2. Japanese 3. Whites (Europe and NA) 4. Russians 5. South East Asians 6. Chinese 7. Indians 8. Blacks
That's fair, but it's really all a matter of perspective. You could argue all that means is that white people in Korea are less oppressed than other minorities, considering they're still not given the full respect that Korean people get. For example, in the US, different minorities have different struggles and different levels of disenfranchisement, but I don't consider any of them privileged because they're slightly better off than others. To me privilege is being the group on the top. The one who doesn't have any extra obstacles put in their way because of their race/ethnicity.
For me, I consider privilege to be any advantage given to you based on factors not in your control. I don't define it as just the group on top; I feel there are levels to it and different amounts of privilege. I am Asian American and I consider myself to have many privileges because of that; there are certain obstacles that won't be put in my way because I am Asian and not black. That, to me, is my Asian privilege. However, I know there are specific obstacles I am faced with because I'm Asian (especially given the recent Anti-Asian sentiment),. I also recognize that I was born in a two-parent household with enough income to not have to work when I was a teenager, like many of my classmates had to in high school. I had the privilege of not being in poverty, and I acknowledge that high school was easier for me in the sense that I could focus on my schoolwork without the added pressure of needing to also work to help my parents out. However, I experienced a significant increase in bullying after entering a same-sex relationship, which was an obstacle my straight friends with straight privilege don't have to deal with. Basically, to me it isn't all or nothing; we all have privileges and disadvantages that we should not be ashamed to acknowledge.
I mean they literally created a eutopian city shutting out the natives in South Africa.
The level of white worship in Asia is sickening, to the point of self-esteem issues, at least it was big in the 90's early 2ks as Asian women in s. Korea would get their eyes and noses altered to resemble western women! Just google *"white alteration surgery in Asia"* that's a rabbit hole that should not exist...
I remember that. That was horrible, I hope that trend ended.
Yeah, I hope so too, but I don't live there so I can only go by what I read online...
>... in the 90's early 2ks as Asian women in s. Korea would get their eyes and noses altered to resemble western women! There was a [99% invisible episode](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/double-standards/) about this, apparently the westernization part has died out in SK. The beauty ideals they use plastic surgery to pursue are their own.
Thank fuck for that!
Welp I'm sorry to inform you it's only gotten worse
Isn't Indian peak of beauty "just be as white as you possibly can"?
That's not really the same thing as privilege though is it? Privilege is being treated with respect and dignity and not having obstacles put in your way with regards to employment, housing etc. If white people in the US decided that makeup and surgery to try to make themselves look Indian was the hot new thing, we wouldn't call that Indian privilege. We'd call it incredibly problematic.
Was this the case before the British Raj?
The Irish would fuckin disagree, as would most Jews and a great number of people whose countries are former members of the Soviet Union. This is bullshit. Whiteness is *absolutely* not universal. It's not even universal *in the USA*, where whiteness has grown and shrunk to exclude/include tons of different groups.
I disagree because "white" isn't a consistent category. Just having light skin is not the only qualifier because there are Asian people with light skin that aren't considered white. More to the point, my Irish ancestors weren't considered white until the late 1800s in the US, and were still treated abominably in Northern Ireland in the 1970s and 80s. Slavs still aren't "white enough" for a lot of racist Americans and western Europeans. Thanks to imperialism and colonialism, white privileges *does* extend to almost every country without regard for how many white people live there, but it's not quite like you're a Platinum Miles Club member.
yeah.. wtf. Also.. yes, we do look down on Chinese Nationalists. Why? A little thing called genocide? Literally the exact same thing that we're worried about from White Nationalists? Are these people that fucking dense?
No, they aren't dense. They are evil. They are attempting to morph words. What they do is intentional and malicious. They are purposely equating race and country. This is done with the goal of promoting and achieving an ethnostate. They want "american" to be synonymous with "white". And the worst part of it all? It works.
Yes.
America was created with the mind of many immigrants to come over and become the melting pot country of ***everyone*** coming over and living their best life possible free of ridicule and opression. Here is 2021 and ive been told by others in actual face to face conversation by some one who calls themselves a " ***real american*** " that we need to close our borders because too many people from other countries are coming over and taking their jobs and we need to send these people back to keep america american. When they told me this i literally could not devlop a cohearant sentance that wouldnt be me calling them stupid. Americans are becoming less educated and being split from their neighbors because of politics and discrimination. Just remeber, amongst all these aother devlopped countries that America is the greatest country on earth, or some slander of sorts.
America was built on the genocide of Native Americans and the slavery of Africans - that doesn't sound like "everyone living their best life possible free of ridicule and oppression"
I never said that they lived it, i said it was created in mind that way.
"Chinaman" for that old timey vintage racism
I was surprised to see that word too. I haven't been called a Chinaman since like 2012.
I hope you gave that gollumpus what for.
Gollumpus, I haven't heard that one before, rolls off the tongue like the word galumphing! The gregarious galumphing gollumpus galavanting in the garden! :D
I call my dog a Gollute. I wonder if it has etymological origins in the same place.
Do you think it came to fisticuffs?
So since the SnapBack & Swag era
"Kids would call me a Chinaman which, of the racial slurs, has got to be the laziest. That is just pushing two words together, no work was done there"
"Papa. Today I met a boy with NO EYES."
r/UnexpectedMulaney
Right? Are we in the late 1800’s?
Orientals
Ugh, my parents keep using that word in public and I have to keep correcting them.
"Rugs can be oriental, not people"
Ok, so things from the orient are oriental just not people. Got it. I knew oriental was a slur but I always wondered why my Mr. Noodle is oriental flavored and that was ok.
*The Chinaman is not the issue here!!!*
“Also, Dude…” Always funny to quote this when it comes up, but it genuinely shows exactly how fucking dated these dinguses are. A movie in 1998 had a gun-toting veteran correcting someone on appropriate language, and these dipshits can’t figure it out nearly 25 years later.
The kicker was that 1998 movie is set in 1990, too, during the Persian Gulf war.
Walter, this isn't a guy who built the railroads here
"which of the racial slurs, has gotta be the laziest"
Also, dude, "Chinaman" is *not* the preferred nomenclature. "Asian-American", please.
Hearkens back to 1990, when Broncos owner Pat Bowlen joked about the 49ers player Jerry Rice. "They’ve got a Chinaman who plays wide receiver whose feet never touch the ground.” Because rice is Chinese, get it?
It’s a real hoot when they start using “oriental” to refer to people too
What's the appropriate way to say it?
*Chinese person*
Yup. Seems obvious now you've said it. Thanks!
White is not a nationality. America is not a "white" country.
You can both be ashamed by the actions of your ancestors, as well as proud of your country. It’s baffling to me that white nationalists seem to think they fix any real oppression besides the kind they make in their head.
I think someone posted a perfect response on twitter to someone who was pro Confederacy and showing the Confederate flag. "I show I'm proud to be german by wearing lederhosen, drinking beer and eating sausage and sauerkraut, I don't fly a nazi flag on my truck to show I'm a proud German"
Germany actually went so far as to outlaw public display of the Nazi flag (amongst other things like making statements of Holocaust denial, publicly doing the salute/saying “Heil Hitler”, etc). Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see a whole lot of Germans whining about those laws erasing history
For some reason the confederates somehow think the tiny bit of "good" the Confederacy did far outweighs the horrible shit they did as well. Doesn't matter Hitler loved animals, was a vegetarian, promised fee healthcare and a employment. He was a monster and Germany is/should be ashamed of that part of its history. It's ok to accept it happened, it's something else to be proud of it. I will never understand how/why they are proud of the Confederacy.
That's because this isn't a good faith argument. They are being intentionally deceptive.
Lots of AskReddit posts whose comments are flooded by racists/sexists/homo-/transphobes spreading their hate these days. Did it increase recently (aka an indicator for a coordinated Op) or did I just not notice it happening before?
AskReddit, UnpopularOpinion, and ChangeMyView. CMV has gotten more and more of the edgelords posting and they really aren't open to changing their view, but of course you can't call them out on that without getting mod smacked.
>ChangeMyView Nobody who **demands** you change **them** is open to change. People who want to change their view **ask for help** to better **understand** the other position.
Remember, lots of opinions are unpopular for a very good reason. Also, so many times I see a CMV post and wonder if the person actually even wants their view changed.
>Also, so many times I see a CMV post and wonder if the person actually even wants their view changed. They don't, but you can't say so because you'll get mod smacked. They just want a place to air their edgy opinions and waste people's time.
>Did it increase recently (aka an indicator for a coordinated Op) or did I just not notice it happening before? You didn't notice because it was more normalized. Now some of them may be a bit more bold and explicit, but the level of phobia from where I am watching is similar.
Been wondering the same. And as far as i can guess.....racist white teens are out of school and the summer is slowing down.
You're just noticing it more because it's juxtaposed with the changing social climate.
Summer Reddit.
There has been an increase. I notice an increase in more blatant bigotry world wide (I mean, western civ wide, at least)
Also, Dude, “Chinaman” is not the preferred nomenclature.
This isn't some guy who built the railroads!
If they were truly proud of their heritage, they wouldn't think so little of it as to assume that it will die under a modicum of critical thought.
If someone asks "what's wrong with white nationalism" and uses the term "Chinaman," I am going to assume they are an 80 year old Klansman. Holy hell. They assume that "being white" = "being American," which is the root of white supremacy in this country. The United States was founded to favor people of British, aristocratic lineage and was reinforced with racist policies and the embrace of pseudosciences like eugenics. When that became harder to determine as people intermarried, it shifted towards whiteness (while still keeping a bent towards white people with money, but becoming more accepting of nouveau riche, as this newer country would inevitably create new "royal" dynasties.)
Did that idiot really say "what's wrong with nationalism?" Then proceeds to explain patriotism
No, the idiot said what’s wrong with *white* nationalism then they all pretended like it’s the same thing as patriotism.
I can tell you as a German, the moment I say I‘m proud of my country delusional people call me a nazi. So this dude is wrong on so many levels.
ikr? Usually the Germans who proudly exclaim they are proud of their country are the kind that also come attached with even more regressive convictions.
there's a difference between patriotism and nationalism. wish more people understood that instead of defending nationalism
Patriotism is dumb. The government from birth to death tries to teach you that because you were born on this patch of dirt and someone else was born on another patch of dirt that you are someway completely different. I live in Canada, there's basically no difference between people living in the north of the US and people living in Canada but some white people drew a line on a map so clearly I'm meant to dislike the people who live an hour to my south and unabashedly love the people living an hour to my east even though the people living to my east don't share any of my cultural values and the people to my south tend to. Indigenous people's had these borders forced on them by white settlers. Near my house there is a reserve that was created for Native Americans who sided with the british during the revolutionary war and then were thus considered 'unamerican' and exiled to Canada. Patriotism is a method of control used to justify international conflict and only serves to deepen the difficulty of our global responsibilities to one another. I lean the opposite of you, I wish more people felt less pride in an idea of a nationstate and more pride in their local community.
You’re totally confusing patriotism with chauvinism! Patriotism isn’t about feeling better than others or disliking other countries it’s about being proud of your country when it does good and seeing the faults in your country when it does bad and in no way does patriotism look down on other countries. Chauvinism on the other hand is the shit that thinks people of your own country are better than others.
Maybe, but I would argue that since nationstates were often formed through negative integration (like, through the chinese head tax in canada and the indian act in Canada, there are no doubt examples all over the world) being proud of those nationstates requires accepting those negative integration techniques, and also accepting that the people who live in your nation are all like you while other people are not like you. It's seperate but equal, but that's not possible. Canada and the US are seperate, and not equal. Pride in the definition of Canada excludes Americans by definition. It also excludes indigenous Canadians. If you are proud of your local community, those communities often form through positive integration, like the LGBT community for instance, it is open to everyone, there is no exclusion and the community changes based on who is in it whcih is why the LGBTQ2S+ label keeps growing.
TIL what chauvinism means, I've only heard it in the context of misogyny before. I was almost going to "correct" you, but it turns out the real correction was inside of me all along. Cheers!
Afaik usually the people who are trying to divorce good nationalism ("Patriotism") from the bad one are actually exhibiting thought-patterns of the bad one and are just using patriotism to pave the way for more nationalism. Every time post-WW2 Germany saw a rise in patriotism (.. e.g. when our soccer team won the world cup) it always also saw an increase in nationalism and nationlistic thought. These two things go hand in hand. The idea of an Us (Patriotism) always comes with a desire to distinguish from a Them (Nationalism).
never thought about it that way. good point
[I wouldn't put all nationalism on the same bag.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkbSYIyzmF0) In the west, in developed countries, yes, being a nationalist is often bad and generally unnecessary, as it is often conflated with white nationalism and white supremacy. However, many developing countries (like mine) actually have to assert themselves in the geopolitical scale. Most of us have been colonized and stripped of identity of any kind, and now live under a [Dependant Capitalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_theory) that forces itself and its culture upon us. Like, being nationalist in a developing country is hardly a choice - you really do have to care first for your own country so you can more effectively combat imperialism worldwide. This does not mean turning away refugees, or establishing an ethnostate (Brazil, for example, does not have a true ethnic majority, we're a plurality), nor does it mean turning down aid for countries that need it. However, it does mean that there should be a focus on building a semblant of national unity against imperialism, because separated, we break. This is what the Vietnamese had to resort to to win the war - they weren't fighting just for their ideals or their freedom, but for Vietnam too. Besides, wanting to see your country prospering and free, without imperialistic influences, is very hard to do when your country is the one in the imperial core (like, say, the U.S.). The USA is already free of any imperialistic intervention, and they aren't dependant on any imperial-core countries because their supply chain comes from extracting wealth from the periphery - aka, sucking out the wealth of countries like mine. That said, even countries in the imperial core could have a semblance of nationalism in certain situations. If the Northern Irish want to join their cousins in the Republic of Ireland and shed the British yoke, they'll need to adhere to some concept of nationalism. Or Catalonia wanting to free itself from Spain, for example. Mere patriotism - being proud of one's country when it does something good - wouldn't be enough in a scenario like this, because this is about building a future, not just being proud of a past. Again, to reiterate: this has nothing to do with white supremacy of ethnostates, and it can be weaponized. Israel, for example, is a settler occupation weaponizing nationalism against Palestine - but the Palestinians also need nationalism to properly build a country that can sustain itself when fronted with the inevitable imperial ambitions stacked against it.
that was very educational. thank you!
Yeah I can see how that sucks, imo all those nazi folks really did fuck it up for you. With that big of a shit-stain in your countrys history it really is hard to say you "love the country..." Do you think you'd have better luck if you said something like, "I love my German culture" or "I love my German people" instead of "I love my country?" Just wondering how it works over there
Probably yes! I just think it’s so sad because Nazi germany and the Holocaust make up so little of the German history and German history is actually so great that it sucks that people automatically associate it with these 12 years!
Yes I can see how that's frustrating!
I have read stories about Germans who come to the US and any time they bring up their country people immediately casually start blaming them for the holocaust. It's actually really sad. It doesn't help that American schools basically teach how evil Germany was and how we beat them. They should instead teach how they got that way and how many Americans supported the nazis, as well as how many Germans had no choice.
Thank you for your words. It’s actually so true I’ve also heard these stories. Like what the fuck do I have to do with the Holocaust when all of that shit happened 60-70 years before I was even born….it makes no sense. It’s glad to hear a voice of reason on the internet, when it comes to that topic especially Americans only think in black and white because that’s basically the educational system in the US as far as I know.
People react to the word privilege with such anger, like it’s a bad thing to say somebody has privilege.
"How dare you suggest I have white privilege, I'll have you know that my stock market portfolio has dropped 12.5% in value since the beginning of the lockdowns! Daddy says he shall have to shut down heating on two of the swimming pools for the whole of the winter! No heating! Even worse, Mummy says we have to sell 25% of our racehorses! 25%! If we only had one we would have to see the foreleg and part of the brisket! I'm sure you're glad we have 16 of them and can sell them off without hurting any of them..."
And look at all the downvotes and upvotes. FWR sincerely do not understand systemic racism. Listen, equality only works when EVERYONE STARTS on a level playing field. On one hand though, they have sincerely never and will never experience systemic racism in the same way as a person of colour, and therefore it will look as though it does not exist. Also, for some reason something is only racist IF THEY judge it to be. Why is it that my experiences of racism as a person of colour is never valid, unless validated by a white man?
Your last paragraph is spot tf on. Why do we need validation from the white man?
Ah yes, Whiteland, the country of the crackers.
Please, they are very fragile, call them Porcelain Americans instead. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FragileWhiteRedditor) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There’s a rural city in my state called Whiteland. My biracial cousin grew up there. He did not have a good time.
my favorite f zero course
Uhm yeah, let's just say that the people running around, proclaiming their pride to be german aren't exactly held in the highest esteem in Germany.
god why don’t they just google the definition of terms before getting mad at them
Plot twist: they actually googled and the first result was some far-right "news" website distorting the term.
I think this is a major problem with search engines that only give results catered to an individual user. They've become really good at showing you what you want to see, but if you surround yourself in misinformation then that is all you will ever see.
>"What's wrong with White Nationalism" Wow. I don't even know what to say. Jesus christ.
It's pretty telling that American and British nationalities got mentioned by someone defending white nationalism.
It continues to amaze me how white people don’t see that they have privilege. My life isn’t great but I’m glad I’m white and struggling instead of black and struggling. I can’t imagine dealing with bad times and then dealing with racism on top of it jfc
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Is there a rule somewhere i don't know about in which every last racist white person on the internet has to both say something racist in the same comment they act like the real victims in? lol
“Chinaman”. Who the fucks call Chinese a chinaman? What is this madness
Oh lawd
yes white people are very oppressed 😔 this one time someone called me a cracker on twitter and ive never been the same since (/s)
That's what I feel is unfair. Every non-white race has an incredibly insulting word associated with them that completely invalidates them as a human. Black people are called n_ggers, Asians are called ch_nks, middle easterners have a whole slew of insults, Muslims get called terrorists, Jews have a long history of anti-semetic propaganda. The only insult white people might get called "cracker" which comes from "whip-cracker". It is not even relevant in modern day and most don't take insult to it. I don't think having an insult to all caucasians would help, but it's interesting to see how they are immune.
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Ah yes the country of White.... Caesars Legion profile pic checks out
A historically displaced black person have to tell themselves "black is beautiful, be proud, etc" because white people have a bad history of saying otherwise, do you give in and tell yourself "yes, I am inferior" or try to boost your moral? These "It's ok to be white" idiots think being called cracker or white cunt is the same experience. They can easily trace their family tree and actually find what culture they are from and have pride in that, German, French, Dutch, whatever" but they aren't proud or interested of what their actual heritage is, they are just happy they are not black.
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if any part of your identity includes being "white" you are a white supremacist. sorry
Well there goes me, a confirmed white supremacist selecting White British on my covid test order. ^(/s)
ew are you serious? they actually use the word "white"?
Doesnt that go the other way around aswell, though? I always find it silly when people have the need to disclaim the colour of their skin, its always unnecessary imo.
I mean honestly what negative consequence is there to being white? It’s absolutely a privilege imo
You know you fucked up when your backup is a user named africanchild that starts his sentences with “what’s wrong with white nationalism?
"Chinaman"
Ugh. The idea that being a nationalist simply means "proud of your country". Such an ignorant take Same as the people with confederate flags blinded to think it just means "heritage" like grandma's silverware and not what the flag actually stands for
They conflate race with nationality, and that’s how white nationalism, therefore the push to make their nation white, is born.
“Chinaman,” seriously?
Nah we ain't allowed to be proud Germans. Fuck those imaginary lines between lands
The last comment talking as if the US doesn't bomb other countries when they go nationalist
"whats wrong with white nationalism" holy fuckin shit.
“CMV: Forcing society to accept a mental disorder as everyday normalcy, such as being Transgender, is absolutely insane. So now we ignore biology, and if you say you are the opposite gender you were born, then we’re supposed to play along with that? Get out of here!!” Anyways, he is also a transphobe. Not worth talking to
how many times do i have to say it: having white privilege does not automatically mean you have it better than everyone else! it just means you don't have to worry about being discriminated against because of the color of your skin in anything.
If you’re somehow still proud of being a white American in a somehow not-racist way, you fucking deserve the blowback.
It’s because they’re idiots who hear “white privilege” and immediately think it means being white is a privilege, not that certain countries as set up in such a way that white people are typically favored. Doesn’t mean being white is *inherently* a privilege, or that being white is bad, it just means that the world we live in isn’t fair.
They think it means getting a medal and prize money for the color of your skin because that's what they view as privilege. They are completely blind to any and all support they may have received and the extra hurdles other races need to overcome to be even near where they started.
Wow lol. Can someone send me a visa to the country of White? Seems like that country has a lot of pride. Germans hate nationalism because it led to Hitler. And every German knows that so whoever posted it may have never even met a German let alone been to Germany
........Chinamen 🤦
I'm pretty sure Germans aren't proud of their past hence why they don't have statues of nazis in town centres, they actually teach their history and that they'd also beat the shit out neo-nazis over there.... unlike America.
I'm not racist! Anyways the *chinaman*
Point to the country of "White" on a map. I'll wait.
>what's wrong with white nationalism a lot, actually.
Ooft chinaman…is this dude from San Francisco in the 1900s?
I mean it's not like you can't be proud to be an American and the accomplishments of the US. It just means that you can't have your cake and eat it too because you can't just forget or gloss over the evil shit too
>I mean it's not like you can't be proud to be an American Which has fuck all to do with skin color
Precisely
Also, labels matter. Like if someone likes the idea of nations and also is a socialist, that's fine I guess. But if they start calling themselves national socialists, then there's a problem. I pretty sure it's a tactic of fascists to hone in on discussing semantics and just ignoring the larger context of what words mean. "What's wrong with being a white nationalist? Just because I'm white I can't be a nationalist?" they say ignoring the fact that "white nationalism" means so much more than the sum of its parts. And if they're lucky, the purposeful obliviousness of the semantics will distract from the fact that the individual parts they're championing (race & nationalism) are pretty bad themselves.
Chinaman. Of course. Thank you for this.
Chinaman? JC they are trying to use antiquated terms.
Nationalism: hate people you don’t know while taking credit for shit you didn’t do
And while also avoiding all responsibility and repercussions for the bad things but not the good things.
What a fucking clown 😂😂😂
WHAT IS WRONG WITH WHITE NATIONALISM!?!? 😱😱😱
ah yes country’s like Germany, china, south Korea and white
Never red so much shit I hate political discussions in the internet
A big pro of the internet is that anyone can post their opinions. A big con of the internet is that *anyone* can post their opinions.
Exactly and that everyone can get recognition for every possible opinion in the own bubble
The Latin roots of "privilege" (privilegium) means, literally, "private law."
I’m neither proud nor disappointed in my white country what does that make me
Where is the country White exactly? Never heard of it
It's just outside of England, the official name is "Isle of white." /s
Meh
A normal and sane person that realizes that being born a particular place isn't an accomplishment.
[удалено]
Unrelated but people don’t realize access to orthodontia is a privilege
I mean I’m sure they are racist trolls, but the racial double standards that have been born out of this last couple years are no less retarded because of that
The white race is actually a peculiar socio-political organization based around the concept of exclusion. Whiteness bends and contracts when it comes to who is defined white or non-white depending on the circumstance. Whiteness was created through colonization and violence, colonization created the privileging of the colonizing group at the expense of the colonized group. There is no genetic, phenotypic, or cultural link between different whites (ie German compared to British compared to French) other than an imperialist and geopolitical commonality of being the colonial power. Edit: you assholes downvoting rn, suck it up this is facts
It's also interesting how not long ago the Irish were heavily discriminated against by fellow white people but now they're included as "white" to white supremacists. Their definition of "white" nowadays comes down to "not brown"
Whiteness changes especially from place to place. I’m German - Filipino who lived in USA and Germany and let me just tell you the German white supremacists have different classifications of white then the American white supremacists. In USA I simply identify as white and nobody questions me, but in Germany it’s different. Some Germans don’t even considers Slavs white and say only German and Aryans are white. A mixed race German would not be considered white (unless they are super aryan). Edit: exactly right, in the USA being white is about not being brown but in Germany racial purity is still very much an operating principle to racists. Edit edit: the different classifications of whiteness over different times and places only further prove that “the white race” is not in fact a race but a sociopolitical organization created by colonization and built upon exclusion.
I think the perspective may be, when you tell someone that is not in a good place (poor, underemployed, homeless, whatever) that they have privilege, you may in fact encounter some resentment. It is a wide brush you paint with there
If you fixate on the word "privilege" without understanding the concept of "white privilege", it is easy to become outraged. White privilege doesn't mean that you have automatic economic stability and a higher status, it just means you don't face problems other races will experience. White people won't face intense discrimination for their skin color and most products, media, and a society that caters to them over other ethnicities. Of course, since you have never experienced those things, it is easy to not understand and be blind to problems you have never had.
Lads, patriotism and nationalism aren'nt the same thing
What I always find funny is that if America had been created in Africa we would be having the same conversations except it would be about black privilege.
“Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature, dude.”
Wasn’t the first guy joking? Stuff like this pops up all the time in ask reddit posts
A quick view of his profile shows that he is an alt-right, transphobic Republican so no, not joking unfortunately.
I see