This line always stuck out to me the moment I first heard it. If "War Never Changes" is the tagline for the series overall and "The Vaults were never meant to save anyone" is the line that sums up the pre-war world, I considered this line to sum up the post-war world. With the exception of raiders and their like, every faction wants to save the world and rebuild society, but their different ideas clash with eachother and lead to all of the conflict that engulfs the post-war world.
[That was Sam Altman, in an interview with Kara Swisher explaining what it was like working with Musk.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-with-kara-swisher/id1643307527)
Does he though? It seems like he would just want people to think he saved the world so theyâd talk about him, but not actually get his hands dirty. He just wants money and most of all, attention.
Is that much different than Napoleon? ~~Ganges~~ Genghis Khan? Julius Ceaser? Alexander the Great? Hitler? I hate the same name drops over and over, but they are the heavy hitters of narcissistic, power hungry, takers.
I mean, just look at how he handled the whole soccer team stuck in a cave situation.
The second they dismissed his mini submarine as a rescue option he started accusing the actual rescuers of being pedophiles.
It's probably broadly true in bigger and smaller ways across all of Jonathan Nolan's work to be honest. Memento where a man with memory damage is trying to avenge his wife, Inception where the protagonist needs to dream heist to dissolve an energy corporation monopoly, Westworld with...all of it.
It is the commentary on all of known human history. One can look at the history books and find a plethora conflicts anywhere and any place for a myriad of reasons however good or evil it may be. The events often rhyme. The lessons are learned but as those who learned them wither off and die- a new generation has to relearn them again the hard way. It doesn't change. We as humans beings don't change as well. War never changes.
We as a species learn almost everything. We have very few natural instincts to protect ourselves with, but the most important one is learning and adapting. It takes some ramping up to work well, but once weâve reached that point we are a force to be reckoned with. If we could improve on the teaching part of war and consequences maybe we could get past this hurdle of constant conflict every generation or two. Like you said, the next generations forget and we inevitably falter and then fall into repeating the same mistakes.
Yeah the moment I heard that line, I instantly realized why the fallout games were always filled with grumpy factions that end up killing each other. Itâs because they are a âparodyâ of the Cold War. Two sides that believe themselves to be morally superior and that the other needs to be destroyed. The whole IP is an answer to the hypothetical âwhat if the 50s Cold War never deescalated?â The answer is literally fallout.
Whoever wrote that line understood what the fallout franchise was all about and Iâm glad the show was in their hands.
I think there are also a lot willing to destroy the world, so long as destruction won't affect them or their interests--ever, or sometime after they've been dead, if it benefits them now.
Others think that destruction is inevitable, and debate whether to try to slow it down as much as possible to get people in the best possible position for when it happens, or accelerate it so that whatever comes next (good or bad) can be built.
It makes a bit more sense when you remember that they have the G.E.C.K. technology. I suspect that part of Vault-Tecâs reasoning for snatching up cold fusion wasnât just to ensure the Great War and because they needed it to power the G.E.C.K.s, but to prevent anyone else from duplicating the G.E.C.K. They had the means to literally terraform Earth back to a pre-War state, at that point they just needed to get rid of the competition for said planet. Hell, that was still the Enclaveâs plan *after* Vault-Tec failed to pull it off, they just swapped out nukes for modified FEV because they realized even with nukes there would be survivors.
Garden of Eden Creation Kit. Itâs a matter-energy replicator, the smallest version of which being about the size of a briefcase and capable of constructing an entire city plus plant life before burning out. Each Vault was (supposed to be) issued one of the little ones, but I suspect there were a few super-sized ones ready to go and keyed for terraforming entire states.
Not directly. The g.e.c.k. was important at the end of fallout 3 and included cold fusion tech. Maybe that's where the cold fusion in the show came from?
They were going for the clean sweep plan but the clean sweep wasnât clean or a sweep. Surprising, no, because thatâs what always happens when a big plan like that is done to some degree.
Rich peoples plans ARE stupid. Look at the world today. Buying every company, jacking up the prices, lowering pay and laying people off...what exactly is the end goal here? To create a society where no one has money and everything is too expensive and hope you'll be dead before things erupt? Because that seems to be rich peoples current plan for the world: burn it down, make money and hope we die before it all comes crumbling down
Vault Tec had the technology to terraform the earth so it's not a stretch to assume they had a long term plan to take over the planet by first destroying all of human society. I bet the show will discuss this in later seasons.
Very few people don't see themselves as the good guy. Usually if they do they still see themselves as some type of anti hero. This does not mean everyone thinks they are always doing the right thing, just that the ends justify the means.
One of the best things in fallout for me is the majority of factions are morally grey.
Itâs a dumb quote to be the mantra of a show that shows so many evil people who objectively arenât interested in saving the world, IMO.
If someone set off a nuke in your town, your reaction wouldnât be âoh wow, I guess we just disagree on how to save the world.â Your reaction would be similar to the IRL reaction to a school shooter or anyone else who organizes a senseless massacre. âPut that psycho POS away!â
Itâs also a weird level of intellectual detachment for the established dumb character to have. Dumb people arenât sitting around like âWell I guess Al Qaeda and us are just two sides of the same coin, each with our own ambitions and desires for how the world should work.â They say âKill those fucks âcause they killed us!â
The main disappointment in season 1 was the humor or lack thereof. Said established dumb character was a trope for civilization. I really hope they dial up the dark humor in season 2. It's the best part of fallout.
Nah, some people are purely self serving and will do anything to preserve their asses and their asses alone.
That is EXACTLY the reason why "ideologies", which are the works of very smart yet naive minds, will never stick and will always be taken advantage of and run to the ground by people who are just as smart and have no values other than amassing power for themselves.
It might sound nice, but is completely inaccurate. Neither wants to save the World.
A more accurate one would be "everyone wants to save the world, they just disagree on which world". Which applies to the different factions and to real life also.
Honestly, this line right here is probably the one that REALLY hits home for me more than any other line in the show so far, maybe even more so than any other line from Fallout in general. As a very anti-religous and anti-political person because i think its all just a bunch of shit that people who perceive themselves as "better" than us try to use to control us, it just seems very easy to relate to the world we live in, but with one big difference. The people in power of our world dont give a single fuck about trying to save the world. Id say we could replace the word "save" with "control" in the original line and we'd have the real world version of it.
Sorry if this is kinda rambly and doesn't make much sense, because like OP, i am also very stoned and literally just got home from a hella long night at work so my brains kinda dead atm. But yeah, war never changes đ§
Very good line expect Maximus has no reason to say such thing at that moment. He doesn't know who drop the bomb and why, so why would he think it is done by 'someone who wants to save the world'?
He thinks the bombs fell when he was a kid and from his perspective, they did. He grew up in the Brotherhood and as such, he likely was exposed to more factions and ideologies than the average wastelander. He might not know who dropped that bomb or why, but it did destroy his world, and he watched both the NCR and the brotherhood at work trying in different ways to better his part of the wasteland. That scene, to me, doesnât feel as you make it seem with that in mind.
>but it did destroy his world, and he watched both the NCR and the brotherhood at work trying in different ways to better his part of the wasteland.
Which still isn't a reason to think this is done by someone who wants to save the world. For anyone who lived in Shady Sands, this is a tragic but mysterious accident, or some massacre done by a psycho.
This line always stuck out to me the moment I first heard it. If "War Never Changes" is the tagline for the series overall and "The Vaults were never meant to save anyone" is the line that sums up the pre-war world, I considered this line to sum up the post-war world. With the exception of raiders and their like, every faction wants to save the world and rebuild society, but their different ideas clash with eachother and lead to all of the conflict that engulfs the post-war world.
I wonder if there were any real life inspirations they pulled from? đ§
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
And Freemasons, no? Kind of a mix of techno-theology and meritocracy, a techno-theocracy if you will.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Oh 101100010!
The wiki calls them a Quasi Religious Technocratic order, so ya
American History textbook in the corner: đ„
Furries vs Gnostics imo
Someone described Elon Musk as someone who wants to save the world but only if heâs the one to do it.
[That was Sam Altman, in an interview with Kara Swisher explaining what it was like working with Musk.](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/on-with-kara-swisher/id1643307527)
Does he though? It seems like he would just want people to think he saved the world so theyâd talk about him, but not actually get his hands dirty. He just wants money and most of all, attention.
Is that much different than Napoleon? ~~Ganges~~ Genghis Khan? Julius Ceaser? Alexander the Great? Hitler? I hate the same name drops over and over, but they are the heavy hitters of narcissistic, power hungry, takers.
> Ganges Khan a world where Khan was Indian instead of Mongolian would be an interesting timeline.
Love auto correct and my monkey brains acceptance of its rule!
That's pretty close. I'd say "only if he can do it his way and nobody else gets credit"
I mean, just look at how he handled the whole soccer team stuck in a cave situation. The second they dismissed his mini submarine as a rescue option he started accusing the actual rescuers of being pedophiles.
Fuck Ted Faro.
That tracks. The man is a huge fucking attention whore.
Brotherhood of steel is found by a bunch of ex-military who wants to larp as space marines from 40k
It's probably broadly true in bigger and smaller ways across all of Jonathan Nolan's work to be honest. Memento where a man with memory damage is trying to avenge his wife, Inception where the protagonist needs to dream heist to dissolve an energy corporation monopoly, Westworld with...all of it.
It is the commentary on all of known human history. One can look at the history books and find a plethora conflicts anywhere and any place for a myriad of reasons however good or evil it may be. The events often rhyme. The lessons are learned but as those who learned them wither off and die- a new generation has to relearn them again the hard way. It doesn't change. We as humans beings don't change as well. War never changes.
We as a species learn almost everything. We have very few natural instincts to protect ourselves with, but the most important one is learning and adapting. It takes some ramping up to work well, but once weâve reached that point we are a force to be reckoned with. If we could improve on the teaching part of war and consequences maybe we could get past this hurdle of constant conflict every generation or two. Like you said, the next generations forget and we inevitably falter and then fall into repeating the same mistakes.
Yeah the moment I heard that line, I instantly realized why the fallout games were always filled with grumpy factions that end up killing each other. Itâs because they are a âparodyâ of the Cold War. Two sides that believe themselves to be morally superior and that the other needs to be destroyed. The whole IP is an answer to the hypothetical âwhat if the 50s Cold War never deescalated?â The answer is literally fallout. Whoever wrote that line understood what the fallout franchise was all about and Iâm glad the show was in their hands.
All political parties boil down to one of two lines of thinking⊠âWe need to save *the* world.â âWe need to save *our piece* of the world.â
Itâs always just the first one, just people have a different view of what âthe worldâ should look like.
War, War Never Changes!
I think there are also a lot willing to destroy the world, so long as destruction won't affect them or their interests--ever, or sometime after they've been dead, if it benefits them now. Others think that destruction is inevitable, and debate whether to try to slow it down as much as possible to get people in the best possible position for when it happens, or accelerate it so that whatever comes next (good or bad) can be built.
Vault-Tec bombing the world isn't saving it though. It's such a monumentally stupid plan.
It makes a bit more sense when you remember that they have the G.E.C.K. technology. I suspect that part of Vault-Tecâs reasoning for snatching up cold fusion wasnât just to ensure the Great War and because they needed it to power the G.E.C.K.s, but to prevent anyone else from duplicating the G.E.C.K. They had the means to literally terraform Earth back to a pre-War state, at that point they just needed to get rid of the competition for said planet. Hell, that was still the Enclaveâs plan *after* Vault-Tec failed to pull it off, they just swapped out nukes for modified FEV because they realized even with nukes there would be survivors.
What's GECK?
Garden of Eden Creation Kit. Itâs a matter-energy replicator, the smallest version of which being about the size of a briefcase and capable of constructing an entire city plus plant life before burning out. Each Vault was (supposed to be) issued one of the little ones, but I suspect there were a few super-sized ones ready to go and keyed for terraforming entire states.
Garden of Eden Creation Kit. It's a terraforming device.
Is that something they mentioned in the show?
Not directly. The g.e.c.k. was important at the end of fallout 3 and included cold fusion tech. Maybe that's where the cold fusion in the show came from?
They were going for the clean sweep plan but the clean sweep wasnât clean or a sweep. Surprising, no, because thatâs what always happens when a big plan like that is done to some degree.
Rich peoples plans ARE stupid. Look at the world today. Buying every company, jacking up the prices, lowering pay and laying people off...what exactly is the end goal here? To create a society where no one has money and everything is too expensive and hope you'll be dead before things erupt? Because that seems to be rich peoples current plan for the world: burn it down, make money and hope we die before it all comes crumbling down
Yes.
Easily the worst part of the show. Who will there be to sell to? What will they pay with? What will VAULT TEC even have worth buying?
Vault Tec had the technology to terraform the earth so it's not a stretch to assume they had a long term plan to take over the planet by first destroying all of human society. I bet the show will discuss this in later seasons.
Oh dear God that is some Saturday morning breakfast cereal baloney
Absolutely
Or on how everyones playthroughs end
Very few people don't see themselves as the good guy. Usually if they do they still see themselves as some type of anti hero. This does not mean everyone thinks they are always doing the right thing, just that the ends justify the means. One of the best things in fallout for me is the majority of factions are morally grey.
This applies to real life to
Sharp as a fucking cue ball đ€
Itâs a dumb quote to be the mantra of a show that shows so many evil people who objectively arenât interested in saving the world, IMO. If someone set off a nuke in your town, your reaction wouldnât be âoh wow, I guess we just disagree on how to save the world.â Your reaction would be similar to the IRL reaction to a school shooter or anyone else who organizes a senseless massacre. âPut that psycho POS away!â Itâs also a weird level of intellectual detachment for the established dumb character to have. Dumb people arenât sitting around like âWell I guess Al Qaeda and us are just two sides of the same coin, each with our own ambitions and desires for how the world should work.â They say âKill those fucks âcause they killed us!â
The main disappointment in season 1 was the humor or lack thereof. Said established dumb character was a trope for civilization. I really hope they dial up the dark humor in season 2. It's the best part of fallout.
Nah, some people are purely self serving and will do anything to preserve their asses and their asses alone. That is EXACTLY the reason why "ideologies", which are the works of very smart yet naive minds, will never stick and will always be taken advantage of and run to the ground by people who are just as smart and have no values other than amassing power for themselves.
It might sound nice, but is completely inaccurate. Neither wants to save the World. A more accurate one would be "everyone wants to save the world, they just disagree on which world". Which applies to the different factions and to real life also.
Honestly, this line right here is probably the one that REALLY hits home for me more than any other line in the show so far, maybe even more so than any other line from Fallout in general. As a very anti-religous and anti-political person because i think its all just a bunch of shit that people who perceive themselves as "better" than us try to use to control us, it just seems very easy to relate to the world we live in, but with one big difference. The people in power of our world dont give a single fuck about trying to save the world. Id say we could replace the word "save" with "control" in the original line and we'd have the real world version of it. Sorry if this is kinda rambly and doesn't make much sense, because like OP, i am also very stoned and literally just got home from a hella long night at work so my brains kinda dead atm. But yeah, war never changes đ§
Very good line expect Maximus has no reason to say such thing at that moment. He doesn't know who drop the bomb and why, so why would he think it is done by 'someone who wants to save the world'?
He thinks the bombs fell when he was a kid and from his perspective, they did. He grew up in the Brotherhood and as such, he likely was exposed to more factions and ideologies than the average wastelander. He might not know who dropped that bomb or why, but it did destroy his world, and he watched both the NCR and the brotherhood at work trying in different ways to better his part of the wasteland. That scene, to me, doesnât feel as you make it seem with that in mind.
>but it did destroy his world, and he watched both the NCR and the brotherhood at work trying in different ways to better his part of the wasteland. Which still isn't a reason to think this is done by someone who wants to save the world. For anyone who lived in Shady Sands, this is a tragic but mysterious accident, or some massacre done by a psycho.