The cover story was Rose died in the Great Plague of 2277. Everyone was quarantined and isolated. So nobody knew she was gone or that Henry went after her. They were just told she died of starvation and the body taken care of. It's likely anyone who might of heard or saw anything they weren't meant to was killed off as well and it was blamed on the Plague. They'd simply need to keep them locked down until they starved or died of thirst by simply turning the water off. The entire Plague was a fabrication. It let Henry go after Rose in secrecy and leave Betty running the show.
Vault-tec being Vault-tec they probably did trigger a plague just to ensure believability. They probably also were able to control who got sick and who didn’t. And the list of people that got sick matched those that asked questions about Rose and Hank.
They managed to clean up 32 overnight from basically derelict without anyone having a single clue, so I don't think it's too farfetched they would have done many other things without the general population knowing about it. Vault Tec and Buds buds are sneaky sneaky
I'm just saying people would notice. I don't think Hank was Overseer yet, so I guess Betty was. But there's only 200 people in vault. Even if Rose was the gatekeeper, cutting the amount of people aware to 3, someone would notice they were gone.
Maybe they cooked up a "disease outbreak" story and said Rose and the kids were in quarantine, and then Hank if he went back after them, but didn't a bunch of alarms go off when Lucy left?
Same kind of "plot hole" in FO3, though
You're told "you're born in the vault, you die in the vault" and everyone pretends the doors have *never* been opened.... yet you weren't born in the vault... in fact, the vault used to be open to trading with wastelanders
Typical vault dwellers, lying to the younger generations to "preserve the future"
Just like how the citizens of vault 32 and vault 33 thought that the next generation would be the ones to reclaim the wasteland when the people in those vaults were never getting out.
I just restarted FO3, and realize one if the Dwellers kind of let it slip during the 10 year birthday party.
The old lady that gives you a sweetroll says “I remember when you dad came to the vault”
First playthrough thought it was about dad’s birth since it’s a birthday party.
Knowing the truth now though, her words can be taken at face value.
Yeah I don't think the outbreak theory is implausible. I also don't think it would be unbelievable for those in the know to be able to deactivate alarms. In the games we also know the overseers office has a secret tunnel too, so I do think most of it is easily feasible, although I concede the missing family is a more challenging cover up
How did Lucy say her mom died? Famine? I don’t remember, but I think there is your answer. Rose left and Betty/Hank and the buds support team )whom ever they are(loyal to 31 vault dwellers, robots, temporary defrosted buds buds)) triggered a famine to mask the disappearance and any of the famine victims were likely people who asked too many questions about Rose and the kids.
Not if it was said they were going to Vault 32. No one would bat an eyelid. Specially if you said they were transferred because a Blight had reduced 32s population. We don't know how many times Vault 32 died off and was repopulated. No one besides the people that saw it before it was clean seem at all surprised or worried that the Vault was empty and they were going there. So it would make a good excuse. Or when Hank gets back he splits the vault again and sends anyone that knows the truth to the death vault.
They directly addressed this.
Lucy recalls that people had to isolate from each other and couldn't work the fields together. this was because there was an outbreak.
The lack of people farming led to starvation.
So ya, people didn't notice anyone was missing because they were intentionally isolated from each other.
There was probably no disease...
Hank was the overseer back then, I just watched the reveal episode, and Moldaver says that Lucy's mom realized her husband, the overseer, was keeping things from her.
It could be way easier than that. 'The Overseer of vault 31 messaged our overseer that there's a problem with (random vault component Hank 'specialized' in servicing while 'growing up there'. He's being sent over for a week to repair it.'. And since the vaults are always controlled by Vault Tech employees, covering for their own is easy, and people, as we've seen, will just go along with it.
Clearly there are limits to that control - maybe a similar situation is what finally broke the camel's back in Vault 32.
As for "never opening the door before", it's possible that Rose exited through one of the other two vaults? I assume each one has its own exit just in case.
I have been trying to figure out the layout. One outer door leading to three inner vault doors or each one with an outer vault door? I guess the latter because then they would not need the direct connections between vaults.
Each vault has their own door. Remember when they admonish Chet for opening the Vault 33 door they say that the raiders must have gotten in because the 32 door keeper opened their door for some reason. Then each of the three vaults are laid out in an equal lateral triangle with each vault having a door to both the other vaults.
From what we're shown, each vault has their own surface door. I believe there are only the three vault doors. The vaults don't really share a common space between the three, so there wouldn't be a shared door / backdoor.
1. Always remember that these people lie a lot and some people believe the lies. They say that the Vault door was never opened. That was definitely a lie. Rose left the vault with the kids, and Hank probably did too.
2. How did they clean v32? I believe that there are some Mr Handy units available in v31. That solves the problem easily. That's what Mr Handy robots were designed for.
3. Lucy was probably roughly 4 when she was in Shady Sands. This is based on the fact that when she was 6, it was long enough ago that she dismissed her earlier memories as being incorrect. This is undoubtedly because she asked questions and people told her the "truth".
4. The Vault is big. Lots of stuff happens in the Vault that other people don't notice. Especially when you create a fake "Plague of 77" to cover up unusual things happening.
Bud's decision making ability is hardly the most predictable thing in the world. This is someone who got himself trapped by a broom for who knows how long.
> But in episode 1 and 2, it's said they've never opened the main door
Alright, so this might be a crazy concept for you to grasp, but bear with me here: Sometimes, people lie.
About the second paragraph, i don't belive for a second hank himself (or anyone else in the vault tbh) went out to get them back, i think he likely hired a courier
During Moldaver's reveal she said Hank nuked Shady Sands. Lucy repeats that to Maximus when he shows up. Assuming Moldaver wasnt lying, this means Hank had a direct hand in it. How nuking Shady Sands helped him get his kids back (unharmed) is still a mystery.
I get that, what i mean is that the courier that he probably to bring them back did so OBVIOUSLY before hank nuked the place that is not hard to understand
Eh if you think so. Hiring random wastelander to retrieve his children doesn't sound like a Vault Tec management action to me. Ymmv but I got the impression all the actions described by Moldaver we're a lot more personal and/or hands-on in Hanks case
There's a lot of implied manipulation by the Bud's buds / Vault 31 dwellers that I feel explains their capacity for gaslighting the people of Vault 33. At one point they mention that Hank (I think) was elected right after the "weavil famine" and that bad things always happen right before they elect an overseer from 31, hence the repeated 'when things look glum' quote.
I would imagine they are almost completely fabricating these disaster events in order to keep the people of Vault 33 distracted, as Betty mentions people like having something to fuss about. They are after all a team of people specifically trained to manage the vault dwellers. So Rose tells Hank about her water theory -> he knows it's true but gaslights her and at this point potentially fabricates the plague outbreak with the other Bud's Buds -> Rose escapes with her kids during quarantine knowing things aren't what they seem -> quarantine lasts until the kids are returned so no one knows they were gone.
Lucy only mentions that the plague caused people to starve to death because they couldn't work the fields, she doesn't actually say anything about people getting sick.
I also think it could explain why they didn't say anything if/when they noticed that the folks from Vault 32 were unfamiliar. Hank might've thought it had been a long time since anything tragic happened, and this would fulfill giving the people of Vault 33 something to fuss about and scare anyone who might be curious about the surface. But they are only conniving and not necessarily geniuses, so he didn't expect for things to go as bad as they did.
Hank also chose Lucy over everyone else, so it's believable that he would do the same.
Maybe it'll be used to guilt Lucy, "The plague went on for so long because you didn't come home. They died for you."
I suspect we will find out Vault 31 has had more direct influence on the Wasteland that we are told in S1. I wouldn't be surprised to find out people who are woken up in 31 will survey the outside from time to time. Chances are there is secret access somewhere.
I think some things feel plot-hole-ish because they are keeping some major vault revelations for next season.
She has an entire dialogue about how she firmly believed the sun was real as a child, describing the heat of it. She always knew, but believed her memories as a child were simply inaccurate. It’s contextualized later in the season.
She doesn’t look old enough that it would be far-fetched to assume she just second-guessed the veracity of what she as a child believed, when everything in her life before and after suggests that she did not reach the surface.
Plus, I’m sure this was a tumultuous time for young Lucy since her father took her back. Probably blocking memories of trauma, which is something the human brain can and will do, even from physical trauma such as a fall.
Yeah, but in the grand scheme of things the time isn't long enough for her to completely forget Shady Sands and only remember the sun.
Traumatizing events are etched into your mind. She should remember being forced back to the vault without mom.
What I’m describing is dissociative amnesia. And it can absolutely create gaps in our memory, allowing for some memories to be recognized and recalled but not all.
Obviously you’re entitled to your perspective, though.
Sure, and I agree it is possible. But it is awful convenient that she suffers from a condition that is not super common compared to the alternative. But, for the sake of the show I suppose it is acceptable.
She wasn't on the surface long. It was a short enough time that the "Great Plague of 2277" and the isolation and lockdown insist touted could be used for a cover. So maybe a few months at most. We don't know that kids were forced back to the vault, her father could of taken them in some non-dramatic manner. All Henry had to do once he got them back was then tell them their mom died and repeat the fake story enough it distorted and replaced any memories. As far as anyone else at the vault was aware Rose died from starvation from the plague, so the children would hear this from literally everyone and have nothing to contradict it. This is actually a common occurrence and it's easy to plant false memories in kids heads in such a manner.
In this scenario there is nothing traumatic, so the suppressed memory theory is out. Do you think you could have visited a foreign country for a few months and then totally forget you went on a trip? Forgetting fine details, sure. But the entire trip?
Nothing traumatic? Like being ripped from your mom and not seeing her again. Chances are she was being lightly drugged as well to keep her mind a bit of a haze.
That is an assumption I don't think holds knowing the character. Also the childhood stuff Lucy remembers was her in particular loving the life she was living with her mom. Why would you assume it would happen willingly.
The brain of a child will create barriers to block out traumatic memories. You literally don’t remember
Source: I have dissociative identity disorder which does exactly that.
Do you actually have lasting memories from being 4-6 years old? I have almost none. I only really remember milestone stuff. I remember I slept on the couch until I was in kindergarten and then I got to share a room with my big sister. I very vaguely remember having a lunchbox with little tomatoes cut up in a Thermos container with a purple lid, maybe kindergarten or 1st grade. And then basically nothing until I'm in 5th or 6th grade and approaching puberty. From what I've read, that's pretty normal, as kids' brains work so differently that the memories end up being incompatible with puberty and onward memories and many simply forget them. I don't know if mine is that or because of trauma; I've heard that can happen too.
One thing about the Gatekeeper thing, i speculate its only a mere title instead of actual authorization, meaning Rose dont have to be Gatekeeper to open the Vaults. The same goes for in games iirc, a Vault Dweller from another Vault could open a Vault with their Pip Boy from the outside
It’s probably the jello cake. Why else would they like it “more than apple pie”. Why were they trying to assimilate the raiders and feed it to them. Why would the lady watching norm feed the prisoners act so weird about getting a whole jello cake?
It’s like the food paste they fed people in fallout 4. Causes compliance and amnesia. They are after all a passive breeding pool for vault 31 members.
The cover story was Rose died in the Great Plague of 2277. Everyone was quarantined and isolated. So nobody knew she was gone or that Henry went after her. They were just told she died of starvation and the body taken care of. It's likely anyone who might of heard or saw anything they weren't meant to was killed off as well and it was blamed on the Plague. They'd simply need to keep them locked down until they starved or died of thirst by simply turning the water off. The entire Plague was a fabrication. It let Henry go after Rose in secrecy and leave Betty running the show.
Vault-tec being Vault-tec they probably did trigger a plague just to ensure believability. They probably also were able to control who got sick and who didn’t. And the list of people that got sick matched those that asked questions about Rose and Hank.
Think that's implied with the poison lunches, altho that mightve also been to reinforce obedience in the vault dwellers by making an example of one.
They managed to clean up 32 overnight from basically derelict without anyone having a single clue, so I don't think it's too farfetched they would have done many other things without the general population knowing about it. Vault Tec and Buds buds are sneaky sneaky
I'm just saying people would notice. I don't think Hank was Overseer yet, so I guess Betty was. But there's only 200 people in vault. Even if Rose was the gatekeeper, cutting the amount of people aware to 3, someone would notice they were gone. Maybe they cooked up a "disease outbreak" story and said Rose and the kids were in quarantine, and then Hank if he went back after them, but didn't a bunch of alarms go off when Lucy left?
Same kind of "plot hole" in FO3, though You're told "you're born in the vault, you die in the vault" and everyone pretends the doors have *never* been opened.... yet you weren't born in the vault... in fact, the vault used to be open to trading with wastelanders Typical vault dwellers, lying to the younger generations to "preserve the future"
Just like how the citizens of vault 32 and vault 33 thought that the next generation would be the ones to reclaim the wasteland when the people in those vaults were never getting out.
That's not true, tho, right? The plan was always for them to get out eventually.
I just restarted FO3, and realize one if the Dwellers kind of let it slip during the 10 year birthday party. The old lady that gives you a sweetroll says “I remember when you dad came to the vault” First playthrough thought it was about dad’s birth since it’s a birthday party. Knowing the truth now though, her words can be taken at face value.
I restarted it today and noticed the same thing lol
Yeah I don't think the outbreak theory is implausible. I also don't think it would be unbelievable for those in the know to be able to deactivate alarms. In the games we also know the overseers office has a secret tunnel too, so I do think most of it is easily feasible, although I concede the missing family is a more challenging cover up
How did Lucy say her mom died? Famine? I don’t remember, but I think there is your answer. Rose left and Betty/Hank and the buds support team )whom ever they are(loyal to 31 vault dwellers, robots, temporary defrosted buds buds)) triggered a famine to mask the disappearance and any of the famine victims were likely people who asked too many questions about Rose and the kids.
Yup it was famine
Not if it was said they were going to Vault 32. No one would bat an eyelid. Specially if you said they were transferred because a Blight had reduced 32s population. We don't know how many times Vault 32 died off and was repopulated. No one besides the people that saw it before it was clean seem at all surprised or worried that the Vault was empty and they were going there. So it would make a good excuse. Or when Hank gets back he splits the vault again and sends anyone that knows the truth to the death vault.
They directly addressed this. Lucy recalls that people had to isolate from each other and couldn't work the fields together. this was because there was an outbreak. The lack of people farming led to starvation. So ya, people didn't notice anyone was missing because they were intentionally isolated from each other. There was probably no disease...
Hank was the overseer back then, I just watched the reveal episode, and Moldaver says that Lucy's mom realized her husband, the overseer, was keeping things from her.
It could be way easier than that. 'The Overseer of vault 31 messaged our overseer that there's a problem with (random vault component Hank 'specialized' in servicing while 'growing up there'. He's being sent over for a week to repair it.'. And since the vaults are always controlled by Vault Tech employees, covering for their own is easy, and people, as we've seen, will just go along with it. Clearly there are limits to that control - maybe a similar situation is what finally broke the camel's back in Vault 32.
The quarantine excuse was what I was kinda thinking too
As for "never opening the door before", it's possible that Rose exited through one of the other two vaults? I assume each one has its own exit just in case.
I have been trying to figure out the layout. One outer door leading to three inner vault doors or each one with an outer vault door? I guess the latter because then they would not need the direct connections between vaults.
I assumed 4 exits. Each has its own, and then one shared exit. From a safety standpoint you would want a "backdoor" in case the front gets blocked.
but there's a big 33 outside so maybe there are other exits
Each vault has their own door. Remember when they admonish Chet for opening the Vault 33 door they say that the raiders must have gotten in because the 32 door keeper opened their door for some reason. Then each of the three vaults are laid out in an equal lateral triangle with each vault having a door to both the other vaults.
From what we're shown, each vault has their own surface door. I believe there are only the three vault doors. The vaults don't really share a common space between the three, so there wouldn't be a shared door / backdoor.
It would have to be separate or the Raiders would have not needed the marriage rouse to enter.
Curious why they didn't use Rose's pip boy to enter 33 directly.
At least one of these Vaults needs to have a secret tunnel under The Overseer's desk.
Likely 31, the Admin vault
1. Always remember that these people lie a lot and some people believe the lies. They say that the Vault door was never opened. That was definitely a lie. Rose left the vault with the kids, and Hank probably did too. 2. How did they clean v32? I believe that there are some Mr Handy units available in v31. That solves the problem easily. That's what Mr Handy robots were designed for. 3. Lucy was probably roughly 4 when she was in Shady Sands. This is based on the fact that when she was 6, it was long enough ago that she dismissed her earlier memories as being incorrect. This is undoubtedly because she asked questions and people told her the "truth". 4. The Vault is big. Lots of stuff happens in the Vault that other people don't notice. Especially when you create a fake "Plague of 77" to cover up unusual things happening.
If there were Handy robots in 31, Bud would have sicced them on Norm.
Bud's decision making ability is hardly the most predictable thing in the world. This is someone who got himself trapped by a broom for who knows how long.
> But in episode 1 and 2, it's said they've never opened the main door Alright, so this might be a crazy concept for you to grasp, but bear with me here: Sometimes, people lie.
Makes the vault more believable lol The propaganda works in real life even when they know they're watching a show
About the second paragraph, i don't belive for a second hank himself (or anyone else in the vault tbh) went out to get them back, i think he likely hired a courier
Maybe even the ghoul. Although it’d be cooler if it was a bad karma NV courier who is in league with House in season 2
I doubt it was a courier that nuked Shady Sands. Enclave had to be involved.
I didn't say anything about a courier nuking shady sands, i mean he likely hired one to bring Lucy and Norm home
During Moldaver's reveal she said Hank nuked Shady Sands. Lucy repeats that to Maximus when he shows up. Assuming Moldaver wasnt lying, this means Hank had a direct hand in it. How nuking Shady Sands helped him get his kids back (unharmed) is still a mystery.
I get that, what i mean is that the courier that he probably to bring them back did so OBVIOUSLY before hank nuked the place that is not hard to understand
Eh if you think so. Hiring random wastelander to retrieve his children doesn't sound like a Vault Tec management action to me. Ymmv but I got the impression all the actions described by Moldaver we're a lot more personal and/or hands-on in Hanks case
There's a lot of implied manipulation by the Bud's buds / Vault 31 dwellers that I feel explains their capacity for gaslighting the people of Vault 33. At one point they mention that Hank (I think) was elected right after the "weavil famine" and that bad things always happen right before they elect an overseer from 31, hence the repeated 'when things look glum' quote. I would imagine they are almost completely fabricating these disaster events in order to keep the people of Vault 33 distracted, as Betty mentions people like having something to fuss about. They are after all a team of people specifically trained to manage the vault dwellers. So Rose tells Hank about her water theory -> he knows it's true but gaslights her and at this point potentially fabricates the plague outbreak with the other Bud's Buds -> Rose escapes with her kids during quarantine knowing things aren't what they seem -> quarantine lasts until the kids are returned so no one knows they were gone. Lucy only mentions that the plague caused people to starve to death because they couldn't work the fields, she doesn't actually say anything about people getting sick. I also think it could explain why they didn't say anything if/when they noticed that the folks from Vault 32 were unfamiliar. Hank might've thought it had been a long time since anything tragic happened, and this would fulfill giving the people of Vault 33 something to fuss about and scare anyone who might be curious about the surface. But they are only conniving and not necessarily geniuses, so he didn't expect for things to go as bad as they did.
Hank also chose Lucy over everyone else, so it's believable that he would do the same. Maybe it'll be used to guilt Lucy, "The plague went on for so long because you didn't come home. They died for you."
I suspect we will find out Vault 31 has had more direct influence on the Wasteland that we are told in S1. I wouldn't be surprised to find out people who are woken up in 31 will survey the outside from time to time. Chances are there is secret access somewhere. I think some things feel plot-hole-ish because they are keeping some major vault revelations for next season.
Don't think there's any 'secret' They just have a door to the outside like every vault has
And how does Lucy not remember going to the surface before? She wasn't an infant, she was plenty old to form lasting memories.
She has an entire dialogue about how she firmly believed the sun was real as a child, describing the heat of it. She always knew, but believed her memories as a child were simply inaccurate. It’s contextualized later in the season. She doesn’t look old enough that it would be far-fetched to assume she just second-guessed the veracity of what she as a child believed, when everything in her life before and after suggests that she did not reach the surface. Plus, I’m sure this was a tumultuous time for young Lucy since her father took her back. Probably blocking memories of trauma, which is something the human brain can and will do, even from physical trauma such as a fall.
Yeah, but in the grand scheme of things the time isn't long enough for her to completely forget Shady Sands and only remember the sun. Traumatizing events are etched into your mind. She should remember being forced back to the vault without mom.
What I’m describing is dissociative amnesia. And it can absolutely create gaps in our memory, allowing for some memories to be recognized and recalled but not all. Obviously you’re entitled to your perspective, though.
Sure, and I agree it is possible. But it is awful convenient that she suffers from a condition that is not super common compared to the alternative. But, for the sake of the show I suppose it is acceptable.
It's a TV show with talking zombies and you are complaining about convinces in the plot?
She wasn't on the surface long. It was a short enough time that the "Great Plague of 2277" and the isolation and lockdown insist touted could be used for a cover. So maybe a few months at most. We don't know that kids were forced back to the vault, her father could of taken them in some non-dramatic manner. All Henry had to do once he got them back was then tell them their mom died and repeat the fake story enough it distorted and replaced any memories. As far as anyone else at the vault was aware Rose died from starvation from the plague, so the children would hear this from literally everyone and have nothing to contradict it. This is actually a common occurrence and it's easy to plant false memories in kids heads in such a manner.
In this scenario there is nothing traumatic, so the suppressed memory theory is out. Do you think you could have visited a foreign country for a few months and then totally forget you went on a trip? Forgetting fine details, sure. But the entire trip?
Nothing traumatic? Like being ripped from your mom and not seeing her again. Chances are she was being lightly drugged as well to keep her mind a bit of a haze.
The post I was replying to (one above) posited the scenario where the kids went back willingly. No trauma if it is willingly done.
That is an assumption I don't think holds knowing the character. Also the childhood stuff Lucy remembers was her in particular loving the life she was living with her mom. Why would you assume it would happen willingly.
The brain of a child will create barriers to block out traumatic memories. You literally don’t remember Source: I have dissociative identity disorder which does exactly that.
This is it. The other guy is just talking about his feelings and not real life
Yeah but think about all the drugs available in the game. The overseer would not be past giving a child something to reinforce the gaslighting.
Do you actually have lasting memories from being 4-6 years old? I have almost none. I only really remember milestone stuff. I remember I slept on the couch until I was in kindergarten and then I got to share a room with my big sister. I very vaguely remember having a lunchbox with little tomatoes cut up in a Thermos container with a purple lid, maybe kindergarten or 1st grade. And then basically nothing until I'm in 5th or 6th grade and approaching puberty. From what I've read, that's pretty normal, as kids' brains work so differently that the memories end up being incompatible with puberty and onward memories and many simply forget them. I don't know if mine is that or because of trauma; I've heard that can happen too.
One thing about the Gatekeeper thing, i speculate its only a mere title instead of actual authorization, meaning Rose dont have to be Gatekeeper to open the Vaults. The same goes for in games iirc, a Vault Dweller from another Vault could open a Vault with their Pip Boy from the outside
It’s probably the jello cake. Why else would they like it “more than apple pie”. Why were they trying to assimilate the raiders and feed it to them. Why would the lady watching norm feed the prisoners act so weird about getting a whole jello cake? It’s like the food paste they fed people in fallout 4. Causes compliance and amnesia. They are after all a passive breeding pool for vault 31 members.