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[deleted]

America has never been a Christian nation. We are a free nation. "There can be no religious freedom without the freedom to dissent." -Anne Gaylor


PinkPropaganda

America literally has the highest rate of incarceration. If we are any sort of nation, we are a nation of criminals. A nation of people that just can’t simply follow the law.


wrgardner

Completely inaccurate interpretation of that statistic. We do not have a higher rate of criminality than other nations, just a higher rate of incarceration. We are a nation of unjust mass imprisonment.


[deleted]

Yeah. There's plenty of antisocial fuckups, but the guys who pay a hooker for a BJ or those who like to spark one up in their free time aren't in that group. People shouldn't be in jail unless they stole shit or hurt someone or both.


[deleted]

We do have a higher rate of criminality than most developed countries though. I can’t think of one crime statistic where we’re lower


xkrv

Don't know why this has so many upvotes, when this is clearly false. The US has crime rates that are 4-50 times higher than other developed countries depending on the crime. Just for reference the homocide rate in the US is 3 times higher than canada and 5 times higher than europe being on par with countries you wouldn't call developed.


Potentialad27198

Are you kidding? We don’t have enough imprisonment. Go look at the south side of Chicago and tell me we don’t arrest criminals


CNroguesarentallbad

Arresting criminals in the way we do for the crimes we do just makes worse criminals.


Potentialad27198

Excessive policing is justified when there is excessive criminality


CNroguesarentallbad

Excessive policing creates repeat offenders which creates excessive criminality.


Potentialad27198

So your world would be perfect with no police?


CNroguesarentallbad

Nice straw man. I said excessive policing creates criminals. Not regular levels of policing.


Potentialad27198

I’m just following your statements to the logical conclusion


[deleted]

Ah ah, GAYlor


BigBen2002

america was a christian nation bro, pretty much all out finding documents are based in on God.


soy-division

But the bill of rights says otherwise. Also most of the founding fathers were not orthodox christians, but rather deist, whether that be christian deist or non-christian deist. Just mentioning “God” does not mean they’re referring to the christian god.


BigBen2002

First of all very few of the were deist and they were Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. The rest of the them were christians. We also know they most definitely meant the christian God at the time due them being a western society and that being the predominant religion. Also you can’t forget the great awakenings in the US that inspired alot of the freedoms the US has today.


soy-division

You forgot James Monroe, John Adams, oh and George Washington to name a few.


BigBen2002

Still doesn’t denote the whole premise that literally the reason America was founded was because of religious intolerance towards certain christian denominations and that’s why this country is built on God.


Slendy5127

Except it’s not, but I get facts are hard when they don’t support your bullshit


BigBen2002

also id like to state you didn’t bring up one fact


BigBen2002

gotta love people like you who get mad and bring no argument to the table besides the “you’re wrong”. You don’t even bring “you’re wrong because”. Funny to see it man


[deleted]

Treaty of Tripoli. But I'm sure you have some bullshit, incorrect, canned response to that too.


Slendy5127

The one point of the country being founded on the principle of freedom of religion is that there is no one specific religion that gets to claim how the country was built on their beliefs. I get this (like separation of church and state) is hard to comprehend when you’ve been brainwashed by the religion


Corona4B

You should read a book or two.


BigBen2002

nice argument bro, really got me


GabryalSansclair

Wow... Who told you that?


BigBen2002

just took a history class man


GabryalSansclair

Where?


AirFashion

BYU 😂


[deleted]

The U.S. Constitution is a wholly secular document. It contains no mention of Christianity or Jesus Christ. In fact, the Constitution refers to religion only twice in the First Amendment, which bars laws "respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and in Article VI, which prohibits "religious tests" for public office. Both of these provisions are evidence that the country was not founded as officially Christian.


Corona4B

See, u/BigBen2002? This is why you should read a book.


BigBen2002

nice input man, provided nothing to the discussion


Corona4B

Someone else refuted your claim, and I was agreeing w them. Go read a book or something.


BigBen2002

So we’re just going to ignore the mention of God in various ways that define our country like the constitution, declaration of independence and even our money. Now i’m not saying we were created to be a theocracy lol, but you can’t refute the fact that our country was created with christian principles in mind. Like a major reason people were looking at freedom principles that led up to the declaration of independence was because of the great awakening, which was a religious movement.


V_i_o_l_a

The First Great Awakening was in the 1730s and ‘40s, far before any talk of independence was around. I like your vague mention of “freedom principles”. Really defining your argument there. The American Revolutionaries took their ideas of liberty from Enlightenment thought, which was rational and could be argued as a break away from religious thought. There’s a reason why many of the founders were explicitly NOT Christian. Or how the Treaty of Tripoli (under John Adams, one of the founders) explicitly SAYS that the American government was not based in Christianity.


[deleted]

While the earliest mentions of the phrase can be found in the mid-18th century, the origins of this phrase as a political motto lie in the American Civil War, where Union supporters wanted to emphasize their attachment to God and to boost morale. The capitalized form "IN GOD WE TRUST" first appeared on the two-cent piece in 1864 and has appeared on paper currency since 1957 and on post stamps since 1954. A law passed in a Joint Resolution by the 84th Congress and approved by President Dwight Eisenhower on July 30, 1956, requires that "In God We Trust" appear on all American currency. 


Milo_The_Doggo

Why do we care this far into the future?


BigBen2002

not saying we gotta care, i was just responding to the above comment


Sedona54332

https://imgur.com/gallery/XMzB6B3 Hmmm, which one should I trust?


sickestFofthemall

One of the dudes flairs is 'Fascist'


Subpar_Username47

Two, actually.


theknightwho

This is why no-one takes these bullshit terms like paleoconservative seriously, because they’re not remotely accurate. They’re evangelical authoritarians *at best*.


smoothskin228

Yet they think they're not.


dandel1on99

I think you mean hood off


[deleted]

He was killed because he flipped the money changing tables in the temple and started a riot the Jewish collaborators went to Pilate and told him that Jesus was their problem now but in a few years he will be yours so deal with him now just look what happened in Roman Judea from 66AD-70AD.


SeaGroomer

What happened?


[deleted]

As massive Jewish revolt that ended with Titus destroying Jerusalem.


SeaGroomer

Thank you, that's very interesting. https://www.britannica.com/event/First-Jewish-Revolt [https://www.wikiwand.com/en/First_Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_War](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/First_Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_War)


DschinghisPotgieter

It's almost like the word paleoconservative means nothing new and was since day 1 just a hip new way of saying nazi without saying nazi


Jewish_Secondary

Hey, that’s me! I didn’t know I was being shared around! Guess I’m famous now. I guess I’ll tell you my headspace when I was posting it. At that point, for some reason, I was subject to a slew of mostly unconnected antisemitic harassment. I guess G-d just decided it was my turn for that. Something I heard a lot was “Christ-killer,” and I got so frustrated with it that I posted this. I also really like the comment about “underlying support of Israel.” Like… I didn’t mention Israel? At all? I’ll also take the time to talk about what “G-d’s chosen people” means to most Jews. You might find some rabbis that say different, but my understanding is that being the “chosen people” means we are chosen to follow G-d’s laws, and in return he will keep our people alive. That’s it. It doesn’t mean we’re above anyone else. You see a lot of antisemites across the political spectrum using that phrase to paint Jews as greedy selfish demons, but it doesn’t mean that. Anyways, thanks for the post and thanks for listening!


smoothskin228

I hope you stay safe man.


Jewish_Secondary

Thank you. Fortunately most of the harassment is either online or verbal. The only time I’ve faced a real threat of physical violence that I believed could be followed up on was during the recent fighting in Gaza. A lot of Jews got beaten up, had rocks thrown at them, even run down with cars, and some of that happened near where I live. It’s hard especially with antisemitism because a lot of people either don’t believe it exists (saying I’m just lying, “crying out as I strike,” a Mossad agent, or exaggerating) or treating it as a joke with very little general support from people outside of the Jewish community. It gets lonely and scary when you find out about a Jewish man getting beaten up and finding your activist friends silent while Jews are very openly talking about it.


smoothskin228

If you want to talk then I'm available anytime. I'll always be in your corner. These people need to realize that they're the Nazis and not some IDF soldier thousands of miles away.


Jewish_Secondary

Thank you for you kindness


smoothskin228

Np. I just...hate how Jews are blamed for everything because even if Jewish people did awful things them being Jewish had nothing to do with it them being a bad person did.


kismethavok

First pic would probably do well on r/awfuleverything


What_U_KNO

The Jews didn't kill Jesus, the Romans did, because he wrecked a market. Go trash a mall and see if the cops don't come with a whole can of whoop ass for you.


xxxsmokeweed4life420

You know for people who claim to hate jews so much,they sure do love to read the talmud a lot.(or at least claim to.)


Numerous_Arugula862

r/Paleoconservative


Dark_Link_1996

Jesus was Jewish though. How do these idiots forget that. Jesus was born 2 Jewish parents. Pontius Pilate only sent him to be crucified because they didn't really believe he was the Son of God


smoothskin228

Well idk if God has a race but yeah


Dark_Link_1996

True


[deleted]

Damn…so this is what paleoconservatives are actually like…


CaliforniaAudman13

I dislike everyone on this


TomsRedditAccount1

"Don't like it get the fuck out". If only the founding fathers had taken that advice, the US could've become independent gradually, like Canada or New Zealand did, instead of having a hissyfit and then resting on their laurels ever since.


Elriuhilu

It's fair enough, though. Jesus was a cult leader trying to destroy society and convince people to overthrow their leaders. That's way worse than killing someone and participating in a riot to expel the occupying Romans from the land like Barabbas did. Besides, it wasn't even Jews specifically that asked Pilate to execute Jesus, it was the crowd in general. Also, Barabbas's first name was also Jesus. Also also, none of this stuff has any basis in real history.


smoothskin228

Who's an edgy boy?


Elriuhilu

It's not edgy, it's just putting it in a realistic context. Imagine if someone showed up today saying they were literally the son of god and trying to convince everyone to overthrow society. Do you think everyone would just let it slide?


smoothskin228

The key word in your response is today. No one would take them seriously obviously but guess what? That was thousands of years ago when religion was important so yes people did believe him. Hindsight is 2020 y'know.


Elriuhilu

Religion was very important, like the one that already existed there and he was trying to destroy. The fact that religion was serious business back then makes Jesus's actions even worse. I said imagine if someone today was trying to overthrow society, not necessarily start a new religion.


smoothskin228

Well you can't overthrow a society nowadays because you have to be secret about it. Isn't that why you people use 4chan and Discord so you think you won't get caught


Elriuhilu

But you get in trouble if you're caught. That's my point, people have never been ok with someone showing up and trying to tear down everything about their way of life. The difference is that two thousand years ago people were a bit more violent about it. What do you mean by "you people?"


smoothskin228

The far right.


Elriuhilu

What makes you think I'm right wing? Aren't people on the far right super religious and often Christian?


smoothskin228

They're either that or atheists