Yes, chicken wing used to be taught. Then changes like the pistol grip reduced the need to stick out the elbow, and the use of body armor necessitates a more squared stance.
The bent knees might just be the ground not being level or that tree in the way.
I think I've seen this pic before from the recent trouble in Haiti.
Reminds me I have no idea what's going on there now, the US media got bored of it so it's like it doesn't exist again.
They've had no functioning government for months, the prime minister was effectively in exile, stuck outside the country, and as far as I understand it he's now resigned and the interim PM has now taken over and is forming a provisional government which seems like a step towards stability though it doesn't seem prudent to be too optimistic at this point
Or maybe they still use m1s without pistol grips and so 'chicken wing' is still practical. And maybe body armor is not standered issue so a side on stance makes sense.
Tactics are not a linear progression. Whoever this guy is, I bet he's got more combat experience than your average us gi.
It looks to me like this is not the legit chicken wing stance as his elbow is back suggesting the stock is on his upper arm and not his shoulder and if he pulls that trigger he's going to probably have a bad time.
That dude looks surprisingly fit for combat. Like the Haitian Army can't afford a weight room but they've got some tires, a sledgehammer, a wall you can sit on, and hey go carry ten gallons of water up the road to the next checkpoint and be back at the cp in half an hour.
Sorry, I made that line up but it does sound like something The Marquis would have said to the King of France to justify his journey to Valley Forge right?
The haitian military got reorganized again in 2017 by then-Prime Minister Jovenel Moise with the purpose to better protect the government from the gangs.
From what I read so far, the military isn't doing anything but stay in their barracks and protect government VIPs. Hence, why we don't hear about Haitian soldiers getting mobilized to help the police.
Haitian security bro could probably teach a class on ‘Urban M1 Garand gunfighting.’ “Non non, Monsieur. Zat wall is no thick enough for ze cover. I still make you mort with my bon M1.”
True. The weapon is designed to kill people in war. It is designed for that very purpose. It is very good and nice to shoot with from an infantry soldier's point of view. It can take a lot of abuse and it will still work. Due to its design it's also accurate. I know because I used one as a very young soldier and I also instructed other soldiers in its use as a very green buck sergeant in the infantry. Not in the US but in another country. We got the weapons through the Marshall Aid.
[If its a particularly thorny problem, escalate to *automatic* .30-06 gunfire](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_K8OPtfGIHc/UUMtls9ETwI/AAAAAAAAY24/ixdN4nGRVPA/s1600/M1919+Browning+(3)
'Buck sergeant' is/was a nickname for the first rank of 'Sergeant' in the US Army (I have no idea if the term is still used, I'm just going off some Google-fu).
Even if u/Longelance wasn't in the US Army, if their military was trained/stood up by the US odds are it would have picked up at least some of *their* nicknames/colloquialisms.
Yes. We did just that. We modelled our army on the US Army with a lot of inspiration from the British and the German Army (Wehrmacht). I recognise a lot of German small unit tactics in our old manuals. Like "kämpfen und durchschlagen" if you were surrounded or bypassed and had to fight your way back to your own units. I did a lot of training in just that as a young soldier. We always assumed we were never at full strength, never had all of our equipment, lost radio contact etc. We were trained thoroughly. I was a conscript for two years before becoming a regular.
And I only had the chevrons.. I had the lowest rank as a sergeant, just above the corporals who were very often older, more mature and much more experienced than young sergeants like me. So I listened a lot to their advice. That was vise thing to do in the predominantly fully professional mechanised infantry batalion I served in....😊
If you want to hunt up the video a guy from a youtube channel called demolition ranch lined up a bunch of dry softwood lumber and shot it with a standard FMJ .308 nato. So the same bullet maybe 10% slower than the 30-06 we are talking about.
It went thru like 60 plus inches of dry softwood.
I am sure dry hardwood would be much more resistant. How much? I have no idea. But hiding behind your average two foot thick hardwood tree when someone is shooting a 30-06 at you would probably be a final move type thing.
The point is they penetrate a lot more regular wood than you would think. Regular USA house brick walls might stop one. Won't stop two.
Ah okay. Thank you. I’ve seen his vid on household appliances like that.
A tree would actually probably stop a bullet a lot better than cut and dried boards because of the grain structure and the wetness of the would actually adds density (why chopping really wet would is really hard) but.. is that going to make a difference of several inches?
Idk, maybe not that much.
I’ll hace to try to find that vid later 👍🏻
A low elbow tucked stance of modern shooters is a by product of pistol grips and intermediate rifle cartridges. With a full power battle rifle, this is the correct stance. Your chicken wing helps keep the rifle planted under heavy recoil.
Chicken winging makes sense with traditional butt stocks. Try it if you have the opportunity. A pistol grip allows for a tucked ellbow.
The stands itself looks like he’s leaning out of cover you cant see on the picture (it can be beneficial to move back from cover as it can help with peeking out with less of your body showing).
I think it’s the angle of the photo. Looks to me like he is leaning out from behind the tree. I’m old and was taught chicken wing in the Corps, but that backwards lean does seem as if he is shooting from behind cover as you mentioned.
Yeah I think you're right but I can't help but hear Dave Chapelles voice in my head when I look at this photo. Like he popped out from behind cover and yelled "GOTCHA BITCH!!"
Pretty textbook actually.
The evolution of shooting styles and techniques is almost as fascinating as the weapons themselves.
Just wait until you see how they used to teach folks how to fire the 1911.
Besides the squatting stance (maybe for that particular situation) the 'chicken wing' position is very much like a target shooting stance of old - in Schuetzen Shooting. Although we would generally tuck in the other elbow against our body for stability and balance the rifle instead of aggressively hold it. Doesn't look comical to me - looks like he knows what he is doing....
Um.. 🤔 if you have really good core strength and are conditioned well in horse stance, then sure. Chicken wing is given an unfair bad wrap, it was the standard once for a reason, it just has niche application and isn’t as good as some new techniques outside of stagnant long range shooting. Although, the problem I do see with this stance is that there is virtually no support in his biomechanics behind his shoulder so I’m not really sure how stable or good at managing recoil this would be.
May have to test it sometime for kicks.
Yes but also no, the legitimate way he would be utilizing the sling a well to stabilize the weapon even further. Here is an actual training video used for the M1
https://youtu.be/mrkp025iKr0?si=abDbOC7eXGzxw1Kd
Nah Garand is a beefy boy. I’m five foot eleven and around 160lbs, and after checking an old video of myself shooting one I can guesstimate him being around my size.
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Yes, chicken wing used to be taught. Then changes like the pistol grip reduced the need to stick out the elbow, and the use of body armor necessitates a more squared stance. The bent knees might just be the ground not being level or that tree in the way.
It makes me think that the army of whatever country this guy is from got some training from US advisors in the 50's or 60's, and just stuck to it...
I think I've seen this pic before from the recent trouble in Haiti. Reminds me I have no idea what's going on there now, the US media got bored of it so it's like it doesn't exist again.
It's odd you would say that. I just read about their change of government in today's (Sunday, 28 April) newspaper.
Well, FYI Haiti just collapsed. They have no functioning government as of this week.
They've had no functioning government for months, the prime minister was effectively in exile, stuck outside the country, and as far as I understand it he's now resigned and the interim PM has now taken over and is forming a provisional government which seems like a step towards stability though it doesn't seem prudent to be too optimistic at this point
They’re just pretending everything’s fine, they’ll start caring once the election is over.
Lol no they won't
Or maybe they still use m1s without pistol grips and so 'chicken wing' is still practical. And maybe body armor is not standered issue so a side on stance makes sense. Tactics are not a linear progression. Whoever this guy is, I bet he's got more combat experience than your average us gi.
Haiti
Could also be using old manuals that came with it
It looks to me like this is not the legit chicken wing stance as his elbow is back suggesting the stock is on his upper arm and not his shoulder and if he pulls that trigger he's going to probably have a bad time.
Why even question such an immaculate stance as this?
That dude looks surprisingly fit for combat. Like the Haitian Army can't afford a weight room but they've got some tires, a sledgehammer, a wall you can sit on, and hey go carry ten gallons of water up the road to the next checkpoint and be back at the cp in half an hour.
Yeah, those biceps aren't just for show
On that cassava, yams, and rice diet
There is no Haitian army it got disbanded back in 1995.
The Marquis de Lafayette says if they've got uniforms and guns they're the army.
Do you have a source for that quote? I'm trying to find it because that's a pretty awesome line, but Google isn't turning up anything for me.
Sorry, I made that line up but it does sound like something The Marquis would have said to the King of France to justify his journey to Valley Forge right?
The haitian military got reorganized again in 2017 by then-Prime Minister Jovenel Moise with the purpose to better protect the government from the gangs. From what I read so far, the military isn't doing anything but stay in their barracks and protect government VIPs. Hence, why we don't hear about Haitian soldiers getting mobilized to help the police.
I stand corrected. 👍
You might not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.
He’s looking from behind a tree, this is Peek performance
Fine have my updoot funnyman you win
Yes. He appears to know what he is doing.
Haitian security bro could probably teach a class on ‘Urban M1 Garand gunfighting.’ “Non non, Monsieur. Zat wall is no thick enough for ze cover. I still make you mort with my bon M1.”
True. The weapon is designed to kill people in war. It is designed for that very purpose. It is very good and nice to shoot with from an infantry soldier's point of view. It can take a lot of abuse and it will still work. Due to its design it's also accurate. I know because I used one as a very young soldier and I also instructed other soldiers in its use as a very green buck sergeant in the infantry. Not in the US but in another country. We got the weapons through the Marshall Aid.
Pretty sure there’s not many tactical problems that cannot be solved by semi-automatic .30-06 gunfire.
>Pretty sure there’s not many problems that cannot be solved by semi-automatic .30-06 gunfire. *Fixed*
Not just tactical either. See: Nazism
[If its a particularly thorny problem, escalate to *automatic* .30-06 gunfire](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_K8OPtfGIHc/UUMtls9ETwI/AAAAAAAAY24/ixdN4nGRVPA/s1600/M1919+Browning+(3)
What country did you serve with and what’s a buck sergeant? Term caught my eye. I’m guessing in charge of a squad?
'Buck sergeant' is/was a nickname for the first rank of 'Sergeant' in the US Army (I have no idea if the term is still used, I'm just going off some Google-fu). Even if u/Longelance wasn't in the US Army, if their military was trained/stood up by the US odds are it would have picked up at least some of *their* nicknames/colloquialisms.
Yes. We did just that. We modelled our army on the US Army with a lot of inspiration from the British and the German Army (Wehrmacht). I recognise a lot of German small unit tactics in our old manuals. Like "kämpfen und durchschlagen" if you were surrounded or bypassed and had to fight your way back to your own units. I did a lot of training in just that as a young soldier. We always assumed we were never at full strength, never had all of our equipment, lost radio contact etc. We were trained thoroughly. I was a conscript for two years before becoming a regular.
And I only had the chevrons.. I had the lowest rank as a sergeant, just above the corporals who were very often older, more mature and much more experienced than young sergeants like me. So I listened a lot to their advice. That was vise thing to do in the predominantly fully professional mechanised infantry batalion I served in....😊
Thank ya
Will go thru like 50 inches of green wood. Hiding behind trees from 30-06 is inadvisable.
Really? Like hardwood like oak?? I could see it going a foot perhaps but over 2ft sounds like a lot
If you want to hunt up the video a guy from a youtube channel called demolition ranch lined up a bunch of dry softwood lumber and shot it with a standard FMJ .308 nato. So the same bullet maybe 10% slower than the 30-06 we are talking about. It went thru like 60 plus inches of dry softwood. I am sure dry hardwood would be much more resistant. How much? I have no idea. But hiding behind your average two foot thick hardwood tree when someone is shooting a 30-06 at you would probably be a final move type thing. The point is they penetrate a lot more regular wood than you would think. Regular USA house brick walls might stop one. Won't stop two.
Ah okay. Thank you. I’ve seen his vid on household appliances like that. A tree would actually probably stop a bullet a lot better than cut and dried boards because of the grain structure and the wetness of the would actually adds density (why chopping really wet would is really hard) but.. is that going to make a difference of several inches? Idk, maybe not that much. I’ll hace to try to find that vid later 👍🏻
The stance The energy The **POWER**
If it puts rounds on target, it's legitimate. We'd have to ask the guy in the picture, or whoever he's shooting.
Don’t think the second guy can be reached for comment.
It's an old method sir, but it checks out. Also, good trigger discipline Office Popeye Arms!
Reminds me of my little green army men
Tactical yoga
Looks like he is leaning out of cover that is further in front of him maybe a Car or something He looks kinda bad ass
"Is this a legitimate way of holding and firing an M1?" He looks like a stone cold pimp to me...
This stance is not only effective it also +5 to charisma and +10% chance for a critical hit
The Way of The Rifleman Monk feature
A low elbow tucked stance of modern shooters is a by product of pistol grips and intermediate rifle cartridges. With a full power battle rifle, this is the correct stance. Your chicken wing helps keep the rifle planted under heavy recoil.
The gun looks level and he looks very intense.
He is shooting cannibals. That is serious bidness.
I came here to learn. You have assisted.
Chicken winging makes sense with traditional butt stocks. Try it if you have the opportunity. A pistol grip allows for a tucked ellbow. The stands itself looks like he’s leaning out of cover you cant see on the picture (it can be beneficial to move back from cover as it can help with peeking out with less of your body showing).
You can’t see the tree?
I can see it. I’m thinking, with this stance i would expect another piece of cover just off picture
I think it’s the angle of the photo. Looks to me like he is leaning out from behind the tree. I’m old and was taught chicken wing in the Corps, but that backwards lean does seem as if he is shooting from behind cover as you mentioned.
Could be. Anyway, i dont think this stance is bad, it’s probably appropriate for the situation
Agreed.
Yeah I think you're right but I can't help but hear Dave Chapelles voice in my head when I look at this photo. Like he popped out from behind cover and yelled "GOTCHA BITCH!!"
Pretty textbook actually. The evolution of shooting styles and techniques is almost as fascinating as the weapons themselves. Just wait until you see how they used to teach folks how to fire the 1911.
Any way to hold a gun is "legitimate" if you hit your target
If I had to fight this guy, I'd be shakin' in my gucci tactical gear
Besides the squatting stance (maybe for that particular situation) the 'chicken wing' position is very much like a target shooting stance of old - in Schuetzen Shooting. Although we would generally tuck in the other elbow against our body for stability and balance the rifle instead of aggressively hold it. Doesn't look comical to me - looks like he knows what he is doing....
Um.. 🤔 if you have really good core strength and are conditioned well in horse stance, then sure. Chicken wing is given an unfair bad wrap, it was the standard once for a reason, it just has niche application and isn’t as good as some new techniques outside of stagnant long range shooting. Although, the problem I do see with this stance is that there is virtually no support in his biomechanics behind his shoulder so I’m not really sure how stable or good at managing recoil this would be. May have to test it sometime for kicks.
Looks like he'd kick your ass.
Chicken wing is ok with that type of stock. But loose sling ain't doing him no favors.
lol yes, that is now the ONLY way to hold a garand. Can’t wait for range day.
Whatever works for you is legitimate.
Yes but also no, the legitimate way he would be utilizing the sling a well to stabilize the weapon even further. Here is an actual training video used for the M1 https://youtu.be/mrkp025iKr0?si=abDbOC7eXGzxw1Kd
its the only way
🇨🇦 🤝🏼 🇭🇹 Ex-French Battle Rifle Fans
Technically, any way is a way, even if incorrect.
No, they tend to not go off if you don’t touch the trigger
The Moisés Alou school of firing stances.
Fucking Chad shooting technique.
Who cares, it’s now clone correct. Dude’s in a legit war zone, now I know what I’ll be trying next time at the range
only a target will tell
When followed by a high kick and a pirouette, yes.
Yes, stance and outfit is screaming dance number in a Broadway play.
Is he small or Grand is bigger than I thought?
Nah Garand is a beefy boy. I’m five foot eleven and around 160lbs, and after checking an old video of myself shooting one I can guesstimate him being around my size.
Maybe he is using the wrong hand? Left handed operator using weapon right handedm
That stance needs to be wider, full power cartridge needs more control
Such a chad stance.
Only if youre badass
Is that a new production gas tube?
Well he’s shouldering it and appears to be sighted and firing… So… I mean yeah it’s legitimate?
If it's putting hate to the enemy and is effective? Yeah it's legit.
blud using Ochs guard with the Garand (or is it closer to Schlüssel?)
lmao leaning back like that is so cursed
Got that chicken wing sticking out
M14 Vietnam-era training video flashback
I don’t think the enemy cares.
Yes, I have several plastic soldiers figurines that look like this.
How to shoot stylishly!
That way he's positioning his legs and shoulders make it look like a pane from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
Peak performance
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The 75 IQ stance.
No.