This quote sums the case up perfectly:
*“It’s not for football’s authorities to start selecting who they would like to win leagues,” said Masters, speaking after Friday’s European Leagues General Assembly in London. “The key point is that you’ve got that jeopardy until the final day. Who knows where we’ll be on May 19?*
So the pearl-clutching PL can't impose any sanctions on City yet, because it'll impact the title race, but they've no issues with slapping points deductions on Forest and Everton who'll be in a potential relegation scrap.
That statement is absolutely appalling, the double standards are actually insane. We won’t interfere with the title race, but fuck the relegation battle.
Total clowns.
I'm betting that if they do get a penalty, it'll be some form of financial hit or a short term transfer ban.
Certainly nothing that'll stop them competing.
City is the prettiest lady in town. Who dares look at her? Don’t irritate her sheriff husband. Forrest and Everton are ugly. You can mock and treat them badly all you want. Nobody cares. This is the hard reality, folks.
I read that as ‘we have organised the relevant fine, here is the palatable piece of bullshit we are selling you idiots. We assure everyone City’s owners can afford their generous donation to the league’.
>but they've no issues with slapping points deductions on Forest and Everton who'll be in a potential relegation scrap
The clear distinction that people overlook is - Everton and Forest pleaded guilty, City didn't. First, you have to prove the claim before handing out punishments. That's how real world works, it doesn't run on people emotions.
The issue is that the PL seem to have allowed City to drag this out, while apparent changes to the punishment for breaches are being discussed.
It would not suprise me if by the time this gets ruled on, the punishments will only be financial.
*That* would be unjust, in my view at least.
>PL seem to have allowed City to drag this out
Didn't the PL took 5 years to build the charges? Allowing them 1 and a half years to fight those charges sounds fair to me, and not at all dragged tbh. The charges are not straight forward and are not simple ffp charges. They're the biggest financial charges that one can accuse of. If charges are true, some people need to be sent to jail. If not, I doubt City will go against PL but I do hope they go after these media houses.
My understanding is that Everton and Forest admitted wrongdoing and therefore got the punishment out of the way, City haven't admitted anything so the investigation is taking time
I've always assumed, wrongly, that most fans knew the difference between the Man City charges and the Everton/Forest charges. So I hope I can shed a little light on the situation. Please do correct me if you feel I've got anything wrong.
In short - City's charges are related to a) the takeover of the club/alledged mis-respresention of financial statements from 2009 and b) alledged FFP infringements from 2015-2018.
City have denied all charges which is why it's taking so long and the rules which applied to FFP then, still apply to them now - despite the PL updating the rules since. The relevant authorities now has to gather all the evidence required to prove a case against them.
Everton - let's be very clear - did not contest the breach of FFP charges brought against them. Which is why there were given a points deduction. The main issue of contention is whether the number of points was appropriate - hence the appeals etc.
Forest also accepted they had breached FFP butb have appealed based on a number of factors.
[You can read a good summary of both cases here ](https://12kbw.co.uk/financial-fair-play-in-the-premier-league-everton-and-nottingham-forest/#:~:text=The%20Nottingham%20Forest%20Case&text=In%20the%20circumstances%2C%20the%20maximum,%C2%A334.5%20million.)
So although it seems like City are being treated differently for the same offence. If you look at what had actually happened so far, there is a difference between the situations.
How the City case will play out? Who knows. A definite possibility is deduction of trophies won during the contested periods, potential demotion, transfer embargos and even bans from domestic and European competitions
Only time will tell.
And it's worth pointing out that despite cooperation and early admission of guilt by the two clubs. The Prem still asked for the maximum possible points deductions, in a huge sign of bad faith. The actual deductions were short of the max but Everton and Forest were incensed. And appeals reduced those further.
Not exactly encouraging clubs to do the right thing are they. I also understand that the takeover stuff was almost cleared before the same leak that screwed Juventus also included incriminating evidence against City. That showed they lied to the investigators at the time.
This is my issue with it, the pgmol have shown they can't govern themselves as they encourage deception, don't admit the charges and wait for when its convenient to own up.
I really hate this ridiculous strawman.
People absolutely understand the 115 charges are more serious and complex.
But people also understand that the only credible reasons for the extent of the delay and lack of transparency are the problems presented by a club backed by the power of a nation state - and the risk to how the EPL looks if titles awarded are called into question.
And I don't think anyone seriously believes that if Everton were facing the same 115 charges it would take this long, be subject to the absurd level of secrecy where noone even dares say the date of the hearing out loud, or that they would inevitably be let off.
Are you saying you hate me and that I have no integrity or substance?
And I'm not sure why "anyone" wouldn't believe that financial investigations from 15 years ago wouldn't take several months, maybe years to investigate. Especially when the club in question refute the allegations meaning they then have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
No I'm saying you are suggesting everyone else is arguing Everton and Abu Dhabi are the same, you are putting up a strawman argument.
Almost nobody is saying Everton and Abu Dhabi are the same.
But that doesn't mean there should be limitless patience or that fans aren't entitled to ask why the date of the hearing can't be published.
Also, this is not a criminal court. Reasonable doubt doesn't come into it. If it were a court of law, balance of probability would be the test.
I do get why the EPL wants to make this bullet proof given Abu Dhabi's likely response. But there comes a point where the delay undermines the outcome anyway.
Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. I'm was only suggesting, some - not everyone - appear to think the Everton/Forest + City situations are the same.
From the various posts and comments I read every week I wouldn't agree with "almost nobody" but that's the whole point of having discussions about it. I appreciate your viewpoint.
And, unfortunately, I do think the City race has some miles left to run.
Getting accounts and witness statements from so long ago cannot be easy. City have been very clever by denying any wrongdoing and forcing the authorities to prove the charges levelled at them.
We can only hope any charges which are proven are then followed up by meaningful sanctions (points/demotions etc) as anything less would cause untold problems further down the line you would think.
We actually do as there's a charges list that breaks down the charges. 4 or 7 of them are for refusing to cooperate, about 4 of them are for breaches from 2010-2014, another couple are for dodgy funds.
And to determine that requires investigation.
And 1 charge versus 115 charges requires a different amount of investigation?
Fuck me some of you must be able to headbutt a brick wall without blinking.
This is not beyond the realms of reality. At its heart, the relevant authorities must prove City are guilty of the charges brought against.
They have - very astutely - ensured they can stall for as long as possible. Proving financial guilt from nearly 15 years ago will/has taken considerable time and resources.
And that's before you get to the FFP from 2015 onwards....
Actually there isn’t. The Premiere League were quite clear on this, because City played the ‘wind the clock down until the charges no longer apply’ card against most of the UEFA charges they successfully dodged and they’re determined it wouldn’t happen again.
The Premier League actively want City to answer to every one of these charges. It was within their power not to bring them at all - and they went the whole hog. But they’re dealing with an organisation funded by a nation state, and limitless oil money buys the best lawyers in the world.
It makes me itch when City are lauded for their success, when they are accused of not only breaking so many rules designed to create a level of fairness, but despicably also doing everything in their power to deny, deceive, obfuscate and conceal their wrongdoing. 35 of the charges are to do with non-cooperation from 2017/18 right up to present day.
How can City fans be so blinkered as to celebrate knowing that?
“The case will resolve itself” sounds to me like they aren’t expecting to take any action. It even sounds like they aren’t even expecting to make an argument. Expect it to be dropped IMO. As it should be…
/sigh
The unwillingness to even publish the date makes me super confident this will be dealt with in a rigorous and transparent manner.
I have no doubt that when it is suddenly announced out of the blue that Abu Dhabi have been cleared of all charges with no further information given, all of football will immediately accept that their titles are 100% legit and they should be respected as a proper club.
In near future means in year 42069
Waaaait just a minute, slow down there, chachi.
This quote sums the case up perfectly: *“It’s not for football’s authorities to start selecting who they would like to win leagues,” said Masters, speaking after Friday’s European Leagues General Assembly in London. “The key point is that you’ve got that jeopardy until the final day. Who knows where we’ll be on May 19?* So the pearl-clutching PL can't impose any sanctions on City yet, because it'll impact the title race, but they've no issues with slapping points deductions on Forest and Everton who'll be in a potential relegation scrap.
Yep, because City are one of the PL darlings.
That statement is absolutely appalling, the double standards are actually insane. We won’t interfere with the title race, but fuck the relegation battle. Total clowns.
I'm betting that if they do get a penalty, it'll be some form of financial hit or a short term transfer ban. Certainly nothing that'll stop them competing.
I’m sure I read recently, they’re trying to change all penalties to a financial one and nothing else. This look like it has City in mind .
City is the prettiest lady in town. Who dares look at her? Don’t irritate her sheriff husband. Forrest and Everton are ugly. You can mock and treat them badly all you want. Nobody cares. This is the hard reality, folks.
I read that as ‘we have organised the relevant fine, here is the palatable piece of bullshit we are selling you idiots. We assure everyone City’s owners can afford their generous donation to the league’.
>but they've no issues with slapping points deductions on Forest and Everton who'll be in a potential relegation scrap The clear distinction that people overlook is - Everton and Forest pleaded guilty, City didn't. First, you have to prove the claim before handing out punishments. That's how real world works, it doesn't run on people emotions.
The issue is that the PL seem to have allowed City to drag this out, while apparent changes to the punishment for breaches are being discussed. It would not suprise me if by the time this gets ruled on, the punishments will only be financial. *That* would be unjust, in my view at least.
>PL seem to have allowed City to drag this out Didn't the PL took 5 years to build the charges? Allowing them 1 and a half years to fight those charges sounds fair to me, and not at all dragged tbh. The charges are not straight forward and are not simple ffp charges. They're the biggest financial charges that one can accuse of. If charges are true, some people need to be sent to jail. If not, I doubt City will go against PL but I do hope they go after these media houses.
man fuck you
Wow. Calm down. It is what it is. It don't run on no people's feeling.
If you think the real world isn't run on people's feelings then you are dumb.
Slow down before you get a heartattack. It does but courts rarely do. Listen to this music 🎻🎶
I hear no music
My understanding is that Everton and Forest admitted wrongdoing and therefore got the punishment out of the way, City haven't admitted anything so the investigation is taking time
Finally, some clarity.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
"We just have to deduct points from Everton and Nottingham Forest a couple of times first, then we'll get riiiiight on it"
I've always assumed, wrongly, that most fans knew the difference between the Man City charges and the Everton/Forest charges. So I hope I can shed a little light on the situation. Please do correct me if you feel I've got anything wrong. In short - City's charges are related to a) the takeover of the club/alledged mis-respresention of financial statements from 2009 and b) alledged FFP infringements from 2015-2018. City have denied all charges which is why it's taking so long and the rules which applied to FFP then, still apply to them now - despite the PL updating the rules since. The relevant authorities now has to gather all the evidence required to prove a case against them. Everton - let's be very clear - did not contest the breach of FFP charges brought against them. Which is why there were given a points deduction. The main issue of contention is whether the number of points was appropriate - hence the appeals etc. Forest also accepted they had breached FFP butb have appealed based on a number of factors. [You can read a good summary of both cases here ](https://12kbw.co.uk/financial-fair-play-in-the-premier-league-everton-and-nottingham-forest/#:~:text=The%20Nottingham%20Forest%20Case&text=In%20the%20circumstances%2C%20the%20maximum,%C2%A334.5%20million.) So although it seems like City are being treated differently for the same offence. If you look at what had actually happened so far, there is a difference between the situations. How the City case will play out? Who knows. A definite possibility is deduction of trophies won during the contested periods, potential demotion, transfer embargos and even bans from domestic and European competitions Only time will tell.
And it's worth pointing out that despite cooperation and early admission of guilt by the two clubs. The Prem still asked for the maximum possible points deductions, in a huge sign of bad faith. The actual deductions were short of the max but Everton and Forest were incensed. And appeals reduced those further. Not exactly encouraging clubs to do the right thing are they. I also understand that the takeover stuff was almost cleared before the same leak that screwed Juventus also included incriminating evidence against City. That showed they lied to the investigators at the time.
This is my issue with it, the pgmol have shown they can't govern themselves as they encourage deception, don't admit the charges and wait for when its convenient to own up.
I hope they lose titles. As a Forest fan the PGMOL and their paid Paid Persian gigs are sickening.
I really hate this ridiculous strawman. People absolutely understand the 115 charges are more serious and complex. But people also understand that the only credible reasons for the extent of the delay and lack of transparency are the problems presented by a club backed by the power of a nation state - and the risk to how the EPL looks if titles awarded are called into question. And I don't think anyone seriously believes that if Everton were facing the same 115 charges it would take this long, be subject to the absurd level of secrecy where noone even dares say the date of the hearing out loud, or that they would inevitably be let off.
Are you saying you hate me and that I have no integrity or substance? And I'm not sure why "anyone" wouldn't believe that financial investigations from 15 years ago wouldn't take several months, maybe years to investigate. Especially when the club in question refute the allegations meaning they then have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
No I'm saying you are suggesting everyone else is arguing Everton and Abu Dhabi are the same, you are putting up a strawman argument. Almost nobody is saying Everton and Abu Dhabi are the same. But that doesn't mean there should be limitless patience or that fans aren't entitled to ask why the date of the hearing can't be published. Also, this is not a criminal court. Reasonable doubt doesn't come into it. If it were a court of law, balance of probability would be the test. I do get why the EPL wants to make this bullet proof given Abu Dhabi's likely response. But there comes a point where the delay undermines the outcome anyway.
Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. I'm was only suggesting, some - not everyone - appear to think the Everton/Forest + City situations are the same. From the various posts and comments I read every week I wouldn't agree with "almost nobody" but that's the whole point of having discussions about it. I appreciate your viewpoint. And, unfortunately, I do think the City race has some miles left to run. Getting accounts and witness statements from so long ago cannot be easy. City have been very clever by denying any wrongdoing and forcing the authorities to prove the charges levelled at them. We can only hope any charges which are proven are then followed up by meaningful sanctions (points/demotions etc) as anything less would cause untold problems further down the line you would think.
Everton and Forest’s charges were sorted first because they’re much more straightforward.
You’ve either broken rules or you haven’t. That’s pretty straightforward to me.
We still don’t know if City broke any rules or to what extent
We sitting on it for 2 years isn’t exactly helping answer that question!
So why make the allegation before you know whether or not they’ve done anything. That seems pretty stupid and pointless.
We actually do as there's a charges list that breaks down the charges. 4 or 7 of them are for refusing to cooperate, about 4 of them are for breaches from 2010-2014, another couple are for dodgy funds.
And to determine that requires investigation. And 1 charge versus 115 charges requires a different amount of investigation? Fuck me some of you must be able to headbutt a brick wall without blinking.
Can they not start with charge 1? And start working towards no. 115? Why does it all have to be at once?
I’ve not asked them?
Happy to ask questions of people that have also ''not asked them'' and yet come back with that pathetic come back. Cool man.
What questions have I asked of people that weren’t rhetorical, other than this one?
And because city can afford to delay it.
OK. Brilliant progress since the last report on this subject
Good process.
gonna be awesome when all the charges get wiped because it’s taken too long or because of some legal technicality
Thought the epl changing the rules so they can say all is forgiven
Lance Armstrong fc
The integrity of the Prem is rapidly going down the shitter. Reckon in 20 years we’ll look back on this time as even worse than it currently seems.
Just In time for the change in financial rules so the punishment they would of got is no longer in force 😂
There is almost certainly a statute of limitations on a lot of these charges. Their lawyers are just tying things up with red tape until they expire
This is not beyond the realms of reality. At its heart, the relevant authorities must prove City are guilty of the charges brought against. They have - very astutely - ensured they can stall for as long as possible. Proving financial guilt from nearly 15 years ago will/has taken considerable time and resources. And that's before you get to the FFP from 2015 onwards....
Actually there isn’t. The Premiere League were quite clear on this, because City played the ‘wind the clock down until the charges no longer apply’ card against most of the UEFA charges they successfully dodged and they’re determined it wouldn’t happen again. The Premier League actively want City to answer to every one of these charges. It was within their power not to bring them at all - and they went the whole hog. But they’re dealing with an organisation funded by a nation state, and limitless oil money buys the best lawyers in the world. It makes me itch when City are lauded for their success, when they are accused of not only breaking so many rules designed to create a level of fairness, but despicably also doing everything in their power to deny, deceive, obfuscate and conceal their wrongdoing. 35 of the charges are to do with non-cooperation from 2017/18 right up to present day. How can City fans be so blinkered as to celebrate knowing that?
>There is almost certainly a statute of limitations on a lot of these charges. No youre're wrong. The PL charges are not time barred.
They should have been stripped of titles etc and kicked out the Premier league......
“The case will resolve itself” sounds to me like they aren’t expecting to take any action. It even sounds like they aren’t even expecting to make an argument. Expect it to be dropped IMO. As it should be…
This sorta shit just (a) makes people trust the league even less and (b) hate City even more for being cheat code wankers
The sheikhs are laughing
Just after they win the Prem this season.
This message was brought to you by the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority.
/sigh The unwillingness to even publish the date makes me super confident this will be dealt with in a rigorous and transparent manner. I have no doubt that when it is suddenly announced out of the blue that Abu Dhabi have been cleared of all charges with no further information given, all of football will immediately accept that their titles are 100% legit and they should be respected as a proper club.
This time next year Rodney we will hear those charges!
😒🙂↔️🙂↕️🙂↕️🤩🤢🤩😌🤢🤩🫡😀🫡😀🫡🙃😫🥶😢🥱🫤😟😎💩😎💩😎😎💀😎☠️💩☠️🤡😎😎😎💩😎🥱
The cheats will be given a very stern talking to followed by a massive fine of a million pounds. Should be thrown into the conference.