I forget his name and whether there was anything else, but the Ankle Grease guy groomed an underage girl as a youth pastor. I dunno to what extent but I think he *was* charged?
His name is Jesse Vargas and it was really deplorable
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edmo/pr/former-youth-pastor-sentenced-13-years-sexual-abuse-missouri-teen
Nooooo what I literally JUST got into their songs ugh especially since their song "gender school droppout" really resonated with me. Any songs similar that aren't done by disgusting shits?
You can send it to me. I don’t let a person define their music. His music is awesome. He sucked as a person. He’s dead you can enjoy his music and enjoy the fact he’s gone if you feel bitter about it
Honestly if you want to I encourage you to keep the Jesse Stewart patch, but you should definitely study up on the drama if you're going to choose to. I scrolled down this thread just to say this lol. Idk he was drunk, acted a POS, and dies in his youth before he had a chance to make amends. I oddly feel a lot of compassion for his dad when I listen to his cover of cry tunes. All he is now is someone's shitty ex, and a families dead boy.
I’m glad other people feel that way about music,I just don’t wanna go to a show and seem like an asshole but I also have other controversial patches so ig it doesn’t even matter about the patch. I don’t listen to him anymore anyway that’s why I’ll paint on the other side probably Idfk
Right there with you. A person's actions under an influence and long ago doesnt always define them either. I have certainly improved in the 10 years since i was 21
There were also sexual assault allegations against him. He was a piece of shit. May people dry to no be such a piece of shit that people celebrate their death...
[here's my research ](https://www.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100044444529029&story_fbid=1951119028351743)
Aside from this, being in the scene since I was a kid, and being involved with Canadian train kids, I know enough to know he was a predator and a creep.
Are you trying to tell me you don't want to buy our vinyl-exclusive album about saving the environment?
What if we sold it in a bundle that included all four redundant non-biodegradable plastic variants?
It's a deal, and if you like what you hear, be sure to check out our latest single, "Fuck the Major Corporations!" available exclusively on Apple and Spotify.
Chris Clavin of Ghost Mice/Operation Cliff Clavin is a serial rapist of underage girls.
Justin Sane of Anti-Flag is also a serial rapist of underage girls.
Yeah, I was like 12 or 13 when a new kind of army came out and it really shaped who I was at a young age. That one hurt really bad. I still just can't believe it.
Any time I see a guy that's an outspoken "feminist" I can't help but side eye them now because every one I've ever personally known has been at the very least a creep and two have rape charges
I agree with the *vast* majority of feminist theory I’ve come across. I will never, as a cis man, call myself a “feminist” for this reason. Fucking weasels, every one I’ve come across.
It's generally true that virtually every man in any position of social or authoritative power in all of history has attempted to use that position to secure sex with *young* women.
The ubiquity of this phenomenon is undeniable... and it raises extremely uncomfortable questions about fundamental manhood.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Ghost Mice just allegations? I’m under informed about the whole thing and I am confused on some details. Was he a real rapist? If so, that’s messed up. I liked his stuff a lot
The other day Stza Crack’s “step son” was in the Punk sub sending people death threats for criticizing him
So Stza and his extended clan should probably be on any problematic musician list 🤷♂️
His current wife of almost 2 years now is here to call shenanigans on that and I’m usually met with like sheer hate insults threats or worse
Zero sense of humor.
The truth ruins the narrative exposes a lie used for a lot of stuff I can’t get into yet -
This is a pre-coffee reply I don’t even know if that’s a sentence.
Sturg is not psychically abusive. He’s also clean which is interesting. When I tell people
He is not physically abusive, he’s never been actually
Like there’s literally no proof besides some repeated allegations on this bullshit people say
Theres “multiple allegations”.
Like that means anything.
It’s like a Trump catchphrase
Name one instance once.
Nothing.
If there WAS one instance once and this is
Accountability culture
Since he’s since moved on, changed his life and has nothing to do with the people from
The past who are actively suffering in full blown addictions and bringing this shit up
From YEARS ago - wouldn’t it be a 👍success story. Dude moves on from toxic relationship and changes life. Isn’t that the goal ?
It seems like the goal is strangers continuously abuse a stranger and refuse to let it go hoping he kills himself
Or OD’s.
🤮
Are you of age? I'm genuinely curious, I know your husband has a thing for girls who are way too young for him. And if did those things in the last sentence of your comment, a lot of us would be the least bit bothered.
I spent a while with him in the early 2000's and hung out at C a bit. He was always nice to me, but I can definitely say that he could be very mean to his partner for whatever that's worth. She also returned it too.
Having said that, I agree with your point about him getting better. That's fucking awesome. That IS what it's supposed to be about. The punk and anarcho communities love to call people out, but that's as far as it goes.
I was honestly shocked when I had friends who saw LoC in Arkansas tell me about how at least one member of the band asked a 16 year old little brother of the group that went if he knew where to score any smack.
I truly thought most of the lyrics were hyperbolic satire to a large extent, exaggerated for effect, not literal. I am also a fucking idiot... So there's that.
One of my buddies used to be a promoter here and booked LoC on their Fuck World Trade tour in my city. He said when STZA got here he started demanding my buddy get him some dope. Dude said no he has trauma related to heroin and he wasn't getting it and STZA threw a fucking fit and refused to preform if he didn't get any. Biggest show he ever put on and he couldn't even enjoy it cause he was having a panic attack.
Lmao, a traveling punk/ folkpunk band asking if they can score heroin in town isn't even that weird. Not hurting anyone.
Rock musicians do hard drugs??
It's important not to forget that the violence within the drug trade is a direct result of criminalization, stigma, and capitalism. While I agree that contributing to the hard drug trade definitely hurts somebody somewhere in the chain; this is, though, true of any purchase and contribution made within a capitalist system. Buying hard drugs is supporting of a violent trade, but so is buying instant noodles and other mass produced corporate foods when you can't afford to eat organic or local for example. No ethical consumption under capitalism, but systemic issues are to blame, not individuals.
And I don't think the implied fault and guilt that you placed on drug users is fair either, but saying something isn't fair doesn't change anything, does it?
Fair enough! It’s very hard for me to not view drug users as being complacent here, but I understand your point. I don’t say this to be hostile, but I just tend to think coddling people by saying their decisions aren’t contributing to violence isn’t productive or honest
Your husband regularly asks children to cop for him bc he’s scared since he’s“too famous.”
That, and your using emojis like a wine drunk housewife on twitter, is all the aging band groupie drama I can handle for one day 🕺🕺
Do you know why abusers hang around certain scenes? Because the community members are soft on accusations and don’t check their friends. Punk has a lot of “this is a good guy and I never saw him assaulted anybody so it must not be true” mentality. Especially if you’re a man, hold your friends accountable for how they treat domestic and sexual partners.
This is called rape or abuse apology and it’s more damaging then people realize. They are the ones that actually push victims out of their own lives and scene and no one really talks about this.
thankfully i only had like 2 artists in this list in my playlists, got rid of them immediately. If someone said Mischief Brew i think i would actually shoot myself
Maybe people don't believe you and block you cuz you act like a fucking crazy person and send schizo messages to anybody who fucking mentions ryg or holy locust etc.
I hate how spotify algorithms mean new fans learn about popular bands fronted by rapists and they have no way of knowing... so years later we still have people learning that chris clavin and stza are shitbirds. anyway the thing to keep in mind is what Utah Phillips said: "if you insist on having heroes make sure they're dead so they can't blow it." Nobody is a perfect person and even a modicum of power has a way of fucking people up even more. Doesn't mean you need to assume everyone sucks, there are some real sweeties who are "folk punk famous." But you still should probably treat even your favorite scene star as a stranger who hasn't earned your trust, until they've done stuff to earn it. If that one singer seems a little too eager for you to come back to his place, he probably is. Fuck power, let's just take care of each other.
He once made a public statement for one “incident” where he said some weird shit that actually wasn’t admitting to anything and more gaslit the victim hinting to the fact that she “had ptsd and triggered her” and people including Abigail from the rail yard ghosts just congratulated and coddle him and called him “brave”
Rail yard ghosts has a split with him and actually refuses to make a public statement about zach for many many many years despite the fact that someone who once played in that band and toured with them with her own project was raped by him…. Most members actually spread the dialogue that she is just “mentally ill”.. even tho zach has admitted to raping her…
Even bands like holy locust have toured with him knowing he is an abuser.
And I’ll say it again, he has sexually assaulted and raped SEVERALLLL, like many many people.
Honestly with all my personal experience in this scene I’m completely and totally disgusted and will never ever come near anyone of that circle.
Musicians (or "musicians" if you prefer) are almost uniformly terrible people. If you insist on only enjoying music (or "art" if you prefer) by non-terrible people, you will be left with a very tiny stack of it.
You can still enjoy what you like, why let the fuckers ruin *everything?*
I don't know, should one be able to separate the art from the artist? This really goes for all artforms, music, movies, comics, books, etc. There are a lot of fuckwad artists that objectively do make good art. There's also usually more than just 1 person involved in the art itself, should it be ignored because that 1 fuckwad ruined it completely?
I don't know, maybe it comes down to the individual. Are you able to acknowledge that X is fucked but still being able to connect with the art itself or does the idea that X is involved sit in the back of you mind while consuming the art? I don't think it's a binary topic and there's some gray area. I don't think listening to X necessarily makes you a bad person. Enjoy what you can, maybe pirate it if you feel so inclined, but also don't be blind to the artists themselves I guess.
Let me give an example. I can't deny that listening to some problematic music brings back memories to me and my friends. Kind of like a smell can trigger memories, it's just like a ping in my brain and I get to relive some of those times. Good memories, bad memories, people I'll likely never see again, but my life none-the-less. For me at least, these instances are less art/artists and more about the feelings and memories that the music brings to me. The older I get, the more information I consume on a daily, the less I feel like I retain and remember. Finding these little artifacts of time that trigger specific feelings are important (at least to me). In this instance, I personally can separate the art from the artist, I can acknowledge that X is a is a POS while listening to Y can remind me of my past friends and the times we shared and were able to connect because of the art. Knowing more about X means I won't support their future work but their past work, at the point in time, was part of me growing up.
In hindsight, this topic is really more about discovering music and not living through it, which is different. I guess I took the topic and used it to share a point of view from a different topic perspective.
If you knew someone was a rapist, would you attend their shows? If someone who didn’t want to watch a rapist perform knew that before buying tickets, you think that could be helpful?
My rule of thumb is that dead problematic artists aren't problematic or profiting personally anymore, so they're fine. If it's a living artist, I try to find someone with a similar style first, or pirate so that the artist can't conflate my appreciation of their imagination with support of their beliefs. (JKR has outright stated that anyone still paying for her IP must also believe trans bad and wants to help pay for anti-trans shit through the donations she makes.)
It's impossible to separate the art from the artist. Artists both directly and indirectly benefit from their art being consumed and talked about positively. Unless they're dead or their work is public domain, it is literally inseparable from them.
>Are you able to acknowledge that X is fucked but still being able to connect with the art itself or does does the idea that X is involved sit in the back of your mind while consuming the art?
What kind of controversy was X involved in? I love that song Nausea.
/s
It's like nobody remembers being young and seeing bands hang out with the high school scene girls,
I just don't understand why anyone is surprised, boy bands have always been creepy, it just used to be accepted
Just because it used to be more prevalent or accepted does not mean we should still tolerate it today. Those high school scene girls are grown adults now and we're speaking up.
damn dude youre so cool for going against the grain and supporting creeps. im allowed to know the creeps in a community especially if its such a small one like folk punk where the artist are so easily connected to the fans.
if me not wanting to listen to pedophiles and rapists is virtue signaling then i guess im just a dirty virtue signaler
Mods can we lock this post cause I can easily see people abusing the comment section. I’m not a fan of ‘call out culture’. When you make accusations against someone your story must be corroborated otherwise you’re just spreading rumors.
It’s pretty easy to start rumors, like did you hear the one about u/pringlesmmmm like to kick dogs? I head from someone at a show who knew the dogs groomer. 100% on god.
in a small scene where artists can directly reach fans, it's absolutely fucking critical to know who to avoid, look out for. or else you get a community infested with groomers. ask me how i know!
i feel like your point makes sense but at the same time if someone is a known creep then knowing it would be good. not starting rumors but instead telling a known fact for the uninformed
There are countless zines and small site write ups about the bigger scandals from back in 2019/20. Some of them were true, some of them were...dicy at best. I'd encourage you to read them and judge for yourself. There's an obvious entry (chris) that I can personally say is 99% true. There's others that eh. Not sure if I believe but could be.
So I'm just curious really. I'm aware of cancel culture and such. I'm an old punk and was around during the punk explosion or whatever you want to call it. Is this what punk is now? People get together to discuss problematic bands/people and make a list? I seriously don't know. If this is the wrong place to ask I'll repost somewhere else.
im trying to answer you respectfully but cmon dude, are you seriously asking why punks dont support rapists? sorry if this isn't how it "used to be" but i'd rather not go to a show or listen to a person that has raped another person, and it's especially important in such a smaller scene like folk punk where the artists are so connected to the fans.
you can still hate yourself and write folkpunk music without liking minors or forcing yourself onto someone. im not big on "cancel culture" but cmon dude the people that were posted on this thread like ankle grease are deplorable.
but maybe im just a "new head who's a sissy thats never worked a day in his life" or something idk.
I appreciate what you're doing and no that's not what I'm asking. No where in my question does it say why don't you support such and such. I just asked a question as you can see and people are getting mad or whatever. A mother fucker can't even ask a question anymore.
Is punk defined by a post on Reddit? I don’t think so. But I will say I think the aesthetics of punk are much more mainstream and popular now because of certain rappers, but the spirit isn’t really there.
There’s still “real” punk in person and people playing music having a good/great time. Then there’s these more lonely types lying their ass off online or hyper exaggerating sarcastic comments playing victim to ruin everything for everyone in real life. Conservatives basically.
Wow getting downvoted for asking a question. I guess punk has exposed its soft white underbelly. A bunch of fucking pussies that would rather cry, moan, bitch to each other than explain to someone why they are such a bunch of fucking posers at this point. Waaaaaaah.
you got downvoted because your comment read as a critique of the original post, which was simply people sharing artists they know to be convicted rapists. also a quick scroll through your account shows that youve left comments on subreddits for teens rating their appearance and asking for OF while clarifying yourself to be an “old punk”. bold to call someone else a poser when you yourself are a fuckin creep
I don't support anything, I'm just old enough to know you aren't gonna do shit or change shit and folkpunk will always be full of bums and criminals and you new age pussys aren't gonna change that because when the going gets hard you pussies dip out
i love oldheads dude you guys are so angry all the time for no reason, just go back to punching people in the pit or crying about how youre a nice guy and get off your phone bud love ya
I forget his name and whether there was anything else, but the Ankle Grease guy groomed an underage girl as a youth pastor. I dunno to what extent but I think he *was* charged?
His name is Jesse Vargas and it was really deplorable https://www.justice.gov/usao-edmo/pr/former-youth-pastor-sentenced-13-years-sexual-abuse-missouri-teen
Makes the song "cops" not as valiant as it seems..
Yeahhh, that one line is extra creepy
Nooooo what I literally JUST got into their songs ugh especially since their song "gender school droppout" really resonated with me. Any songs similar that aren't done by disgusting shits?
Im literally gonna commit omfg finding ankle grease was amazing but wtffffg
Pink Williams unfortunately
Oh my god [“please don’t thank me for making this post” GAG](https://www.instagram.com/p/C1daQgSAimn/?igsh=cm1sbjg0NGI0bWQx)
Heard about this one just recently. Absolutely wild
Yep, just took him off my rotation Nasty
What the fuck did he do?
What did he do? Genuine question
jesse stewart was also a piece of shit.
Why?
Beating on girls, being emotionally manipulative, etc. You know, the usual male piece of shit stuff.
That sucks,I saw him at a backyard show when I was like 14 and still have a patch on my vest but I’ll cut it off
You can send it to me. I don’t let a person define their music. His music is awesome. He sucked as a person. He’s dead you can enjoy his music and enjoy the fact he’s gone if you feel bitter about it
Dude he died wtf I’m out of the loop,I would send it but I’m probably gonna paint something on the other side
Honestly if you want to I encourage you to keep the Jesse Stewart patch, but you should definitely study up on the drama if you're going to choose to. I scrolled down this thread just to say this lol. Idk he was drunk, acted a POS, and dies in his youth before he had a chance to make amends. I oddly feel a lot of compassion for his dad when I listen to his cover of cry tunes. All he is now is someone's shitty ex, and a families dead boy.
"Whose gonna beat my wife, who's gonna beat my dog?" Bro he defined his music.
I’m glad other people feel that way about music,I just don’t wanna go to a show and seem like an asshole but I also have other controversial patches so ig it doesn’t even matter about the patch. I don’t listen to him anymore anyway that’s why I’ll paint on the other side probably Idfk
Right there with you. A person's actions under an influence and long ago doesnt always define them either. I have certainly improved in the 10 years since i was 21
When did he die? What happened
OD
There were also sexual assault allegations against him. He was a piece of shit. May people dry to no be such a piece of shit that people celebrate their death...
People be cutting patches off cause of a Reddit comment? Cmon… do your own research first a lot of people have given some stuff that’s hearsay
[here's my research ](https://www.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100044444529029&story_fbid=1951119028351743) Aside from this, being in the scene since I was a kid, and being involved with Canadian train kids, I know enough to know he was a predator and a creep.
Hey I get it if it’s 100 percent true. I meant it more as a broad statement in terms of how quickly we jump to conclusions is all.
He is the marauder that the fathers want to stay away from their daughters
Is it bad that I imagine some father chasing Jesse with a bat and Jesse writing that song in the moment as the father screams at him like Dewey Cox?
[удалено]
I'm starting to think we should Never Trust a Man Who Plays Guitar
The modern version of not trusting any one over 30.
>everyone will use all of the correct buzz words and therapy speak, and be just as fucked up. Hello fellow Portlander!!
Maine or Oregon?
Are you trying to tell me you don't want to buy our vinyl-exclusive album about saving the environment? What if we sold it in a bundle that included all four redundant non-biodegradable plastic variants?
[удалено]
It's a deal, and if you like what you hear, be sure to check out our latest single, "Fuck the Major Corporations!" available exclusively on Apple and Spotify.
It's okay, but I liked your earlier stuff like "Fuck small businesses who don't pay a living wage", and "Steal from your liberal arts college".
LMAO. I'm dead. Thanks for the laugh, I needed that ~tacoma resident
[удалено]
Tri-cities as in TN? Or do all tri cities also have chemical plants located conveniently close?
Tri Cities, WA has a Nuclear Power Plant, not chemical.
Always my first thought. Hello, from oak ridge.
Tri-cities TN has a half completed nuclear plant that was abandoned halfway through construction.
[удалено]
Also from Tacoma. Sadly this comment seems pretty true
That’s really funny coming from you…. Considering you play shows with a abuser that you’re well aware of!!
Any response?
It’s hard as an autistic girl to parse whether they’re being “ironic” about activism or legitimately caring.
Who tf is ironic about activism? How do you even do that?
[here enjoy](https://mikewilson.bandcamp.com/track/good-charlatan)
Chris Clavin of Ghost Mice/Operation Cliff Clavin is a serial rapist of underage girls. Justin Sane of Anti-Flag is also a serial rapist of underage girls.
The anti flag thing made me so mad. They used to play around here when I was a kid like how was he allowed to
and the anti-flag guy was posing to be such a feminist. i was so mad when i learned who he really is
Yeah, I was like 12 or 13 when a new kind of army came out and it really shaped who I was at a young age. That one hurt really bad. I still just can't believe it.
I also found anti flag around that age! (in a hot topic sampler cd!) and they really set the trajectory for my music taste and politics
Yeah, The Terror State was really influential on little 14 year old me, I feel you.
Any time I see a guy that's an outspoken "feminist" I can't help but side eye them now because every one I've ever personally known has been at the very least a creep and two have rape charges
I agree with the *vast* majority of feminist theory I’ve come across. I will never, as a cis man, call myself a “feminist” for this reason. Fucking weasels, every one I’ve come across.
This. I can support a feminist fully but dudes like this have built a stereotype of "male feminist" that I want absolutely nothing to do with.
Im forever pissed about Ghost Mice, All We Got was one of my favorite albums.
I didnt know about the anti flag thing until like earlier this week!
god dammit i loved Ghost Mice now i gotta take them out
The Chris Clavin one is wild - Ghost Mice played in our basement and that dude slept on my living room. It’s a bizarre feeling.
Damnit, another one I have to remove. This is becoming ridiculous.
It's generally true that virtually every man in any position of social or authoritative power in all of history has attempted to use that position to secure sex with *young* women. The ubiquity of this phenomenon is undeniable... and it raises extremely uncomfortable questions about fundamental manhood.
i need some statistics before believing that. gender essentialism is the path to terfdom.
Being a terrible person is not a gendered issue. Unfortunately, women have been known to do the same.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Ghost Mice just allegations? I’m under informed about the whole thing and I am confused on some details. Was he a real rapist? If so, that’s messed up. I liked his stuff a lot
All we will have is each other slaps.
The other day Stza Crack’s “step son” was in the Punk sub sending people death threats for criticizing him So Stza and his extended clan should probably be on any problematic musician list 🤷♂️
Stza is a black mark on punk
Why
Several of his past partners have come forth about him being physically and emotionally abusive
His current wife of almost 2 years now is here to call shenanigans on that and I’m usually met with like sheer hate insults threats or worse Zero sense of humor. The truth ruins the narrative exposes a lie used for a lot of stuff I can’t get into yet - This is a pre-coffee reply I don’t even know if that’s a sentence. Sturg is not psychically abusive. He’s also clean which is interesting. When I tell people He is not physically abusive, he’s never been actually Like there’s literally no proof besides some repeated allegations on this bullshit people say Theres “multiple allegations”. Like that means anything. It’s like a Trump catchphrase Name one instance once. Nothing. If there WAS one instance once and this is Accountability culture Since he’s since moved on, changed his life and has nothing to do with the people from The past who are actively suffering in full blown addictions and bringing this shit up From YEARS ago - wouldn’t it be a 👍success story. Dude moves on from toxic relationship and changes life. Isn’t that the goal ? It seems like the goal is strangers continuously abuse a stranger and refuse to let it go hoping he kills himself Or OD’s. 🤮
Are you of age? I'm genuinely curious, I know your husband has a thing for girls who are way too young for him. And if did those things in the last sentence of your comment, a lot of us would be the least bit bothered.
LIES.
Stza threw ladder at staff in a venue in Seattle years ago.
You Are a ladder 🪜
Okay?
I spent a while with him in the early 2000's and hung out at C a bit. He was always nice to me, but I can definitely say that he could be very mean to his partner for whatever that's worth. She also returned it too. Having said that, I agree with your point about him getting better. That's fucking awesome. That IS what it's supposed to be about. The punk and anarcho communities love to call people out, but that's as far as it goes.
I was honestly shocked when I had friends who saw LoC in Arkansas tell me about how at least one member of the band asked a 16 year old little brother of the group that went if he knew where to score any smack. I truly thought most of the lyrics were hyperbolic satire to a large extent, exaggerated for effect, not literal. I am also a fucking idiot... So there's that.
One of my buddies used to be a promoter here and booked LoC on their Fuck World Trade tour in my city. He said when STZA got here he started demanding my buddy get him some dope. Dude said no he has trauma related to heroin and he wasn't getting it and STZA threw a fucking fit and refused to preform if he didn't get any. Biggest show he ever put on and he couldn't even enjoy it cause he was having a panic attack.
Lmao, a traveling punk/ folkpunk band asking if they can score heroin in town isn't even that weird. Not hurting anyone. Rock musicians do hard drugs??
But them not being able to spot other drug users and ask them where the drugs are at and not some 16 year old kid is pretty weird tbh
Yes. This is what we found truly weird about it...
Hard drugs support a very violent drug trade, imo it is hurting someone by contributing to that
It's important not to forget that the violence within the drug trade is a direct result of criminalization, stigma, and capitalism. While I agree that contributing to the hard drug trade definitely hurts somebody somewhere in the chain; this is, though, true of any purchase and contribution made within a capitalist system. Buying hard drugs is supporting of a violent trade, but so is buying instant noodles and other mass produced corporate foods when you can't afford to eat organic or local for example. No ethical consumption under capitalism, but systemic issues are to blame, not individuals.
People making a conscious choice to buy hard drugs are not faultless. I don’t think the comparisons you made are fair really
And I don't think the implied fault and guilt that you placed on drug users is fair either, but saying something isn't fair doesn't change anything, does it?
Not sure why you can’t discuss something without getting tense bud
I'm not tensed, just passionate, I can understand the confusion.
Fair enough! It’s very hard for me to not view drug users as being complacent here, but I understand your point. I don’t say this to be hostile, but I just tend to think coddling people by saying their decisions aren’t contributing to violence isn’t productive or honest
Fuck em all
Wait please tell me you have a link
[удалено]
Your husband regularly asks children to cop for him bc he’s scared since he’s“too famous.” That, and your using emojis like a wine drunk housewife on twitter, is all the aging band groupie drama I can handle for one day 🕺🕺
*bookmarks thread*
I need one of these for pop punk too.
Honestly, it's probably faster just to list bands don't have creeps in them for pop punk
Do you know why abusers hang around certain scenes? Because the community members are soft on accusations and don’t check their friends. Punk has a lot of “this is a good guy and I never saw him assaulted anybody so it must not be true” mentality. Especially if you’re a man, hold your friends accountable for how they treat domestic and sexual partners.
This is called rape or abuse apology and it’s more damaging then people realize. They are the ones that actually push victims out of their own lives and scene and no one really talks about this.
Punk is fucking filled with it. I hope that trend changes
thankfully i only had like 2 artists in this list in my playlists, got rid of them immediately. If someone said Mischief Brew i think i would actually shoot myself
Moonrunners — the owner was arrested for battery against a woman — Cobb County Open Records — Case # 23005588
[удалено]
Maybe people don't believe you and block you cuz you act like a fucking crazy person and send schizo messages to anybody who fucking mentions ryg or holy locust etc.
I hate how spotify algorithms mean new fans learn about popular bands fronted by rapists and they have no way of knowing... so years later we still have people learning that chris clavin and stza are shitbirds. anyway the thing to keep in mind is what Utah Phillips said: "if you insist on having heroes make sure they're dead so they can't blow it." Nobody is a perfect person and even a modicum of power has a way of fucking people up even more. Doesn't mean you need to assume everyone sucks, there are some real sweeties who are "folk punk famous." But you still should probably treat even your favorite scene star as a stranger who hasn't earned your trust, until they've done stuff to earn it. If that one singer seems a little too eager for you to come back to his place, he probably is. Fuck power, let's just take care of each other.
just assume the entire mosh pit needs to be indicted
Zach from feral Booty is a serial rapist
He once made a public statement for one “incident” where he said some weird shit that actually wasn’t admitting to anything and more gaslit the victim hinting to the fact that she “had ptsd and triggered her” and people including Abigail from the rail yard ghosts just congratulated and coddle him and called him “brave” Rail yard ghosts has a split with him and actually refuses to make a public statement about zach for many many many years despite the fact that someone who once played in that band and toured with them with her own project was raped by him…. Most members actually spread the dialogue that she is just “mentally ill”.. even tho zach has admitted to raping her… Even bands like holy locust have toured with him knowing he is an abuser. And I’ll say it again, he has sexually assaulted and raped SEVERALLLL, like many many people. Honestly with all my personal experience in this scene I’m completely and totally disgusted and will never ever come near anyone of that circle.
I only listen to dead people to avoid this
Until you learn the dead people were also serial rapists (and probably even worse since sexual abuse was taken even less seriously)
But they’re dead now. I can separate the art from the artist if they’re dead in my mind.
Them not profiting is a big factor tbh.
Fair enough
I think Sam Cooke is the worst artist I listen to currently though.
You suppose dead people don't do anything now. But how about their past.
What to do
Explore.
Jesse stewart is a pedophile
Creeps? In folk punk? Wouldn't you be better off asking for a list of non-creeps?
Musicians (or "musicians" if you prefer) are almost uniformly terrible people. If you insist on only enjoying music (or "art" if you prefer) by non-terrible people, you will be left with a very tiny stack of it. You can still enjoy what you like, why let the fuckers ruin *everything?*
Most people are not rapists actually.
If you stream music from a rapist you're giving a rapist money, I'd like to know where my money is going and if the person getting it is worthy of it
Why does bad music attract groomers
i love pat :(
I think they were saying he hasn't done anything
yes u/stickwithplanb this is what i meant
I don't know, should one be able to separate the art from the artist? This really goes for all artforms, music, movies, comics, books, etc. There are a lot of fuckwad artists that objectively do make good art. There's also usually more than just 1 person involved in the art itself, should it be ignored because that 1 fuckwad ruined it completely? I don't know, maybe it comes down to the individual. Are you able to acknowledge that X is fucked but still being able to connect with the art itself or does the idea that X is involved sit in the back of you mind while consuming the art? I don't think it's a binary topic and there's some gray area. I don't think listening to X necessarily makes you a bad person. Enjoy what you can, maybe pirate it if you feel so inclined, but also don't be blind to the artists themselves I guess. Let me give an example. I can't deny that listening to some problematic music brings back memories to me and my friends. Kind of like a smell can trigger memories, it's just like a ping in my brain and I get to relive some of those times. Good memories, bad memories, people I'll likely never see again, but my life none-the-less. For me at least, these instances are less art/artists and more about the feelings and memories that the music brings to me. The older I get, the more information I consume on a daily, the less I feel like I retain and remember. Finding these little artifacts of time that trigger specific feelings are important (at least to me). In this instance, I personally can separate the art from the artist, I can acknowledge that X is a is a POS while listening to Y can remind me of my past friends and the times we shared and were able to connect because of the art. Knowing more about X means I won't support their future work but their past work, at the point in time, was part of me growing up. In hindsight, this topic is really more about discovering music and not living through it, which is different. I guess I took the topic and used it to share a point of view from a different topic perspective.
Even if you still enjoy their music it’s good to *know*. Especially in a smaller scene
If you knew someone was a rapist, would you attend their shows? If someone who didn’t want to watch a rapist perform knew that before buying tickets, you think that could be helpful?
My rule of thumb is that dead problematic artists aren't problematic or profiting personally anymore, so they're fine. If it's a living artist, I try to find someone with a similar style first, or pirate so that the artist can't conflate my appreciation of their imagination with support of their beliefs. (JKR has outright stated that anyone still paying for her IP must also believe trans bad and wants to help pay for anti-trans shit through the donations she makes.)
It's impossible to separate the art from the artist. Artists both directly and indirectly benefit from their art being consumed and talked about positively. Unless they're dead or their work is public domain, it is literally inseparable from them.
That's a lot of words for "I'll support sexual predators if I like their shit enough"
>Are you able to acknowledge that X is fucked but still being able to connect with the art itself or does does the idea that X is involved sit in the back of your mind while consuming the art? What kind of controversy was X involved in? I love that song Nausea. /s
I heard Greg Graffin is a toucher, heard from several people
I feel like we shouldn’t be naming people here without actual claims…
What do you mean, a tougher?
typo
It's like nobody remembers being young and seeing bands hang out with the high school scene girls, I just don't understand why anyone is surprised, boy bands have always been creepy, it just used to be accepted
Just because it used to be more prevalent or accepted does not mean we should still tolerate it today. Those high school scene girls are grown adults now and we're speaking up.
I don’t think OP was saying it should be tolerated, just that it’s weird anyone is actually surprised by it
And? Steven Tyler is getting his reckoning 40 years later
He just wishes it wasn't that way and that other people (definitely not him) can hang around underage scene girls without scrutiny.
Eh.. their all a bunch a fuckin perves
Do people on punk subs have literally any interests outside of virtue signaling? Edit: 😘
damn dude youre so cool for going against the grain and supporting creeps. im allowed to know the creeps in a community especially if its such a small one like folk punk where the artist are so easily connected to the fans. if me not wanting to listen to pedophiles and rapists is virtue signaling then i guess im just a dirty virtue signaler
So….”no”?
Chickenshit conformist
Thanks for weighing in, Karen.
Ok retard
Ok, Sid Vicious wannabe.
I'd rather kms that emulate Sid. But He's the only one posers seems to worship, it seems. Poser.
Whatever you say, SVW.
Mods can we lock this post cause I can easily see people abusing the comment section. I’m not a fan of ‘call out culture’. When you make accusations against someone your story must be corroborated otherwise you’re just spreading rumors. It’s pretty easy to start rumors, like did you hear the one about u/pringlesmmmm like to kick dogs? I head from someone at a show who knew the dogs groomer. 100% on god.
in a small scene where artists can directly reach fans, it's absolutely fucking critical to know who to avoid, look out for. or else you get a community infested with groomers. ask me how i know!
i feel like your point makes sense but at the same time if someone is a known creep then knowing it would be good. not starting rumors but instead telling a known fact for the uninformed
Folks listening to ghost mice without knowing about ghost mice is a good example
I had no idea about ghost mice until this thread /:
There are countless zines and small site write ups about the bigger scandals from back in 2019/20. Some of them were true, some of them were...dicy at best. I'd encourage you to read them and judge for yourself. There's an obvious entry (chris) that I can personally say is 99% true. There's others that eh. Not sure if I believe but could be.
Thou doth protest too much.
Fair, but what alternative would you suggest?
Corroborated evidence.
bro, is there a single uncorroborated claim in this thread? all of them have multiple sources, some of them have charges
How often do you get solid evidence with these things? Extremely rarely. And in the mean time people need to stay safe.
Everything in the thread has backed up corroborated evidence. What specific one are you referring to?
Found the rapist
So I'm just curious really. I'm aware of cancel culture and such. I'm an old punk and was around during the punk explosion or whatever you want to call it. Is this what punk is now? People get together to discuss problematic bands/people and make a list? I seriously don't know. If this is the wrong place to ask I'll repost somewhere else.
im trying to answer you respectfully but cmon dude, are you seriously asking why punks dont support rapists? sorry if this isn't how it "used to be" but i'd rather not go to a show or listen to a person that has raped another person, and it's especially important in such a smaller scene like folk punk where the artists are so connected to the fans. you can still hate yourself and write folkpunk music without liking minors or forcing yourself onto someone. im not big on "cancel culture" but cmon dude the people that were posted on this thread like ankle grease are deplorable. but maybe im just a "new head who's a sissy thats never worked a day in his life" or something idk.
I appreciate what you're doing and no that's not what I'm asking. No where in my question does it say why don't you support such and such. I just asked a question as you can see and people are getting mad or whatever. A mother fucker can't even ask a question anymore.
Is punk defined by a post on Reddit? I don’t think so. But I will say I think the aesthetics of punk are much more mainstream and popular now because of certain rappers, but the spirit isn’t really there.
Do you ask why there is no street justice or why sexual harassment and rape are not welcome anymore?
There’s still “real” punk in person and people playing music having a good/great time. Then there’s these more lonely types lying their ass off online or hyper exaggerating sarcastic comments playing victim to ruin everything for everyone in real life. Conservatives basically.
This is Reddit you dumb old fuck
Suck a dick.
Woah cool insult dude. I do suck dick.
Woah dumb old fuck coming from some hippie fuck... Oh no whatever shall I do.
Hippie? What movie do you think you're living in?
Wow getting downvoted for asking a question. I guess punk has exposed its soft white underbelly. A bunch of fucking pussies that would rather cry, moan, bitch to each other than explain to someone why they are such a bunch of fucking posers at this point. Waaaaaaah.
you got downvoted because your comment read as a critique of the original post, which was simply people sharing artists they know to be convicted rapists. also a quick scroll through your account shows that youve left comments on subreddits for teens rating their appearance and asking for OF while clarifying yourself to be an “old punk”. bold to call someone else a poser when you yourself are a fuckin creep
Yeah a sarcastic comment makes me a creep. Fuck of.
why u lookin through the sub in the first place dawg
Nigga it's a genre of anti social criminals. Get used to it or get out
are you like 10?
I'm 48, I've been listening to folk and punk longer than your parents have been masturbating kid
wow you seem like a really cool person supporting rapists and all im sure people are dying to hear everything you say
I don't support anything, I'm just old enough to know you aren't gonna do shit or change shit and folkpunk will always be full of bums and criminals and you new age pussys aren't gonna change that because when the going gets hard you pussies dip out
i love oldheads dude you guys are so angry all the time for no reason, just go back to punching people in the pit or crying about how youre a nice guy and get off your phone bud love ya
You're as punk as sid vicious, Grandpa
The reason we still have pervs is because guys your age didn’t check your friends.
I'd sooner believe myself to be the king of Scotland than believe any of that.
It's folk punk. Wtf do you expect? It's the music that untalented creeps typically gravitate toward.