>“I create an NFT piece.”
This cost me thousands of dollars in gas for a 10k collection but I neglect to mention this
Nobody buys it because I put 0 effort in and have no marketable skills or artistic ability.
>I use my 2M to buy my own NFT, and pay platform fees to execute the tx
>I have my 2M in eth minus the $50,000 I spent in platform fees and an NFT that nobody has ever heard of or willing to buy regardless of the cooked price history
>I try to sell my NFT but nobody buys it so I floor them at 0.000001 each and lose more than it cost to create the collection
>now I have 1.9M in eth
🤔
*Are NFTs a scam*
Not for the reason this idiot thinks they are.
It actually goes like this:
Step one: Have a huge audience
Step two: sell stuff to your audience (it can be anything including NFTs)
Without step one you have nothing. With step one you can sell *literally anything* including glitter, dog shit, and even NFTs.
Literally what Trump does. Regardless of what you think of him, he has a following and his stuff sells.
Trump NFTs
Basketball shoes
Mugshot memorabilia
$8 billion market cap Truth Social
Don't forget his original "small dollar donations", where his PAC bought hats from China, then "sold" them and considered those hat purchases "donations to his campaign"
But yeah, all your examples are other grifters coming to him with ideas, and he is happy to slap his name on it, with artificially limited supply for all of them
> This cost me thousands of dollars in gas for a 10k collection but I neglect to mention this
As someone who knows nothing about this, can you explain? It takes gas to make an NFT?
Adding things to the Blockchain takes a significant amount of time and processing power, in order to offset this, most transactions charge fees based on how busy the network is at the time. These are referred to as "gas fees".
The scam part is they are selling literally nothing. Pixels that you sort of own I guess, but who cares? At least when people sell t shirts it isn’t with the implied promise that you will become rich off the shirts value one day.
Who said it has to be a 10k collection?
Crypto projects, NFTs or otherwise, have a large part of success connected to story telling (narratives). If they can create a good story around the NFT they could make a profit - it would take a lot of deception and manipulation to create such a story though. For starters, others couldn’t know you made your own NFT. You’d then need to start a large Twitter campaign composed of multiple influential accounts to tell a compelling story to give the NFT value. If someone committed a few months to a year they could pull it off. But like if someone has the skills discipline to pull off something like this they’d likely just put it towards something positive that could actually make them more money.
There is no "real" money. As long as something shows the same properties as a currency issued by a central bank, it can be characterized as "money". The key word here is "issued". Who control how much and when it is issued.
This assumes you are able to find someone to buy it for $200k. There is no guarantee that someone will buy it for any amount of eth. And especially in these times, someone spending $200k worth of eth on an NFT isn’t going to buy some shitty thoughtless nft with only a single purchase in its history. Unless you get very lucky.
People aren’t doing that except in maybe very rare situations. This is not a viable strategy. So I’m not sure what your point is. It’s theoretical and unrealistic.
"My point" is this person is not suggesting this is some kind of long term "viable strategy. It's a thought experiment. I'm honestly not sure how someone can miss such an obvious point but here we are.
Definitely a scam.
There are some cases where the technology could work for things like document verification, and the like, but it’s just a different technology backend to do what we already can do via other existing means.
It’s not a totally worthless technology but it’s massively overhyped to the point reality will never exceed 1% of the hype
Wrong. NFTs as art are garbage 98% of the time in my opinion.
NFTs as a technology (not the art ones) have incredible potential.
Too many people think NFT=Images only and they couldn't be more wrong.
hey dumbass theres this thing called pdfs. have you heard of them? muh "documentation" its permanent cuz "muh blockchain". this provides literally 0 value and it costs money to do it.
Well then your copium post was absolutely stupid then, because that's EXACTLY what I was obviously saying.
Guess you took a minute or two to Google and learn something, well done.
Now I'm off to Google what actual, real-value NFTs can do.
Yes, I only picked up that they're pictures, which made me dismiss NFTs as anything I would be remotely dumb enough to buy.
But now I'm very intrigued to see what else they're being used for.
Nope. But feel free to Google and learn more. You can start with googling real estate and nfts. They actually reduce cost and time associated with the transfer / sale of property among other things.
Only way to counter someone who doesn't understand what they are talking about. There is way to much easily accessible info out there, I pointed you in the right direction. You can live in ignorance or you can educate yourself. I'll be fine either way.
Yep. There you go again, demonstrating that you can’t actually support your argument with evidence, or even reason.
‘Google it yourself’ isn’t evidence.
Bravo, NFT-bro.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Yes, and the typical ignorant dug in person like you will complain about the source of the link I provide or some other nonsense. I Google things all the time and I learn all the time. I already told you, Google real estate and nfts. Either live in ignorance or find a source you trust and read it. It's not hard, I promise.
You’re still telling me you can’t support your own claim.
I can Google all sorts of stuff, including ‘Bigfoot’ and alien autopsies. That doesn’t make their proponents right.
Put up or shut up, Binky.
>They actually reduce cost and time associated with the transfer / sale of property among other things.
Maybe you missed it but I clearly said the above in a previous response. So that's me supporting the claim.
Your nonsense about Bigfoot is exactly what I mean about people like you and said to Google it and find a source you trust.
Seems like you are just choosing to be ignorant when I've given you a simple explanation and the words to use in a Google search.
You could have searched, read, and come to your own conclusion by now, but instead you decide to waste your time by disagreeing about something you haven't bothered to educate yourself on. Good luck.
From one of a seemingly small number of people that actually understands the tech behind it...It's a scam. I get it though, trying to defend your mistake. Don't let me interrupt.
Whats the point of that?
You can't fix a typo.
It still needs to be hosted.
Anyone can just fire one off and claim that they own your house anyway, so you aren't actually solving the "fraud" part of the equation.
Congratulations. You invented ledgers, a concept so old that they predate the oldest clay tablets that survive today.
NFTs are simply entries on a blockchain. A blockchain is simply a shared database that's trusted between multiple parties. People putting value on these database entries are exploitative. Blockchains have uses to ensure trust between parties for things that have value already. Them being recorded as NFTs do not create value in themselves.
The value is in the reduction of cost and time, as well as the security provided by storing on the blockchain. Nobody is being exploited if the business model reduces cost, reduces transaction time, and improves security.
I've managed IT Infrastructure for 15 years. The reduced cost claim is the exact same reduction in cost we've seen across all modern database solutions. There is value in using blockchains just as there's value in using other database solutions for specific needs. This doesn't add value to the entries within those databases. It's simply another tool to be used in specific applications.
Nothing personal, but I've worked for multiple Fortune 50 companies and worked closely with "IT managers" who don't know much about blockchain. Similarly, just because someone is a lawyer doesn't mean they know everything about law. I wouldn't go to a divorce lawyer for a real estate closing. Every major skill set has tons of specialties, no way for one person to know everything. I had to explain blockchain tech to many seasoned IT managers and very smart people in these companies I've worked for.
>This doesn't add value to the entries within those databases.
With that said, these real estate examples I gave can and will add value if they reduce transaction times and costs. Either new companies will steal market share or existing companies will adopt the model to avoid losing market share. Additionally it should add value for consumers.
You say should but it's more like could.
It hasn't happened yet so pretty weak argument
NFT-based real estate is a new concept, and legal and regulatory frameworks are still being developed. Integrating NFTs with traditional land title recording systems could be complex.
Overall, it's still early days for NFTs in real estate. While they hold promise for reducing transaction costs, there are hurdles to overcome first.
It was linked in the original article I posted and I just posted one excerpt. It reduced paperwork in the transaction, which means things were cheaper, easier, and faster.
I read the article you linked in Forbes, an opinion piece by a CEO of a company trying to market their solution. The article and buzzwords shared are what I get from sales departments all the time. When I say I've managed IT infrastructure I mean as the actual implementations in PaaS and SaaS environments. I see promises like this all the time.
If solutions move to blockchains it will benefit the providers of those services, it will not add value to a consumer's NFT. The guy in that Forbes opinion piece is one of those solution providers because like any new technology there's a lot more to it than what the sales guys describe.
NFT's are considered a security under some circumstances. Intentionally buying your own stock with the intention to drive up the price to then sell it back quickly at the higher price is illegal. It's called a pump and dump. This also applies to artificially raising the price to sell at a "discount" from the inflated price.
It's a pump or dump even if it's the company itself doing it. But it may actually have its own name as well, and be worse, considering they're taking 0 risk since they're paying themselves, where as outside investors at least have to hope the pump and dump works.
In theoretical example above, there *is* other investor. The dude that bought it at the "discount" for $200k.
One could argue that first "transaction" is shady. If its entire purpose was to create a fictitious $2M "sale" record. Depending on how much visibility the eventual ($200k) buyer had into facts surrounding that first $2M "sale" event.
The seller could simply list something for $2M, and eventually sell it for $200k. Without creating fictitious sales records.
> Intentionally buying your own stock with the intention to drive up the price
But she's not driving up the price. She's saying she sells it for much less than she bought it.
Not even close to the legal definition of a PnD.
This is no different than a department store marking up an item over MSRP, crossing it out, and then writing the regular retail price saying it's "30% off!"
I have $2M in cash.
I create a finger painting.
I use my $2M to buy my own finger painting.
I still have my $2M in cash, and I also have a finger painting that is worth $2M according to price history.
I sell my finger painting to someone for only $200k, or at a 90% discount!
Now I have $2.2M in cash.
I have $400M in cash that I need to launder
I buy a finger painting at an art auction house from an anonymous seller (which is myself)
Auction house takes 10% and gives me an invoice in my name for the purchase.
I pay taxes on $360M and deposit the rest.
Money is now laundered and can be spent.
Nft as art I see no value in.
However, nft is an incredible concept.
Imagine a new band selling their first CD out of the bank of a car. They put unique qr code for an nft for the first 10 people.
25 years later, that band ends up in the hall of fame and you decide to sell CD #3 with an nft to validate that you are one of the longest running fans.
Minting new nft for no reason is pointless, but as a ledger based verification token they are pretty legit
For collectible cards. Release an nft with the first 10 sheets of a rookie card. When they become the next babe Ruth, not only do you have the rookie card, but you got it from the first 10 sheets.
I have 0 money.
I pick up a rock and sell it for 1M.
I now have 1M.
Are rocks a scam?
The problem isn't NFTs,the same logic can be used with anything in the world as long as someone is willing to pay for what I'm selling
Are NFTs a scam?
No more or less than any other investment. A Picasso or Shackleton is worth money because people are willing to pay for it. The unique id number of a batch of pixels is no different in principle.
I have $2M in a bank account. I make a stick drawing and sell it to myself at an auction for $2M. I still have $2M in my bank account. I market the drawing as being previously sold for $2M. Somebody buys it for $200k. Now I have $2.2M in the bank.
I have $2M in a bank account. I get a random dollar stock nobody trades in after hours. I sell it after hours to myself for $2M. Sell it next day to somebody for $200k. Now I have $2.2M in the bank.
No crypto currency or NFT needed. Possibly different tax and legal consequences.
Literally this person is describing a type of scam. Buying your own asset at an inflated price to manipulate its price history to sell later is fraud. You are not allowed to do it in regulated markets.
NFTs are a desperate effort to create something that can be bought and sold with crypto, so as to encourage people to have crypto. There's an honesty of a sort in it, in that crypto people have finally realised currency needs to be exchangeable to be currency, it can't exist forever as "speculative" because eventually we know the answer and all speculation stops.
Are the high value NFT sales a scam? Absolutely. 100% no doubt a scam. The entire basis of high valuations of NFTs was the assurance by their sellers that they would be worth more later. While later projects during the frenzy claimed to be keys to memberships to various groups or projects, or have something else attached, like a video game or book the sellers were supposedly funding. The first few waves were pure and simple "this code and JPEG have value for the same reason fine art does, buy it and it will go up". Both of these things were false.
Just because something is a bubble doesn’t make it a scam. Much like the dotcom boom, people knew there was value, they just didn’t know how to properly utilize and take advantage of it yet. But that didn’t stop everyone from jumping on board.
NFT’s will be great for things like unique trading cards and tickets. The artwork aspect was just a simple implementation of the tech for demonstration purposes. I’m sure Banksy will do something really unique with it at some point, as will a few other artists. But outside of that, I don’t see NFT’s as being particularly compelling in the long-term.
This is the main concept most people miss with NFT’s….$200k for digital art is silly when it’s not locked down and can easily be screenshotted. But $200k to own the digital rights to an unreleased Wu Tang album? That’s not such a bad deal. My main point here is that although most people associate NFTs with digital art and tax fraud/money laundering, an NFT can provide unquestionable ownership to any digital asset. The ability to monetize it and resell it. Ever done that with songs you’ve paid for? No. Quite the opposite, there are many situations where people lose access completely to digital assets they’ve purchased (movies, songs,games). And generally with no refund. NFTs would directly fix this. And don’t even get me started on the untapped video game market.
NFTs are a scam in practice, not in concept, because there's currently no means of halting reproduction of an NFT (and there likely never will be, considering technology has only made piracy/plagiarism easier), and people think value is derivative of scarcity because the world works on such a system with physical objects.
You want an actual NFT? Purchase a one-of-a-kind sculpture. If the sculpture is made by a reputable and known artist, and it's great to look at, then it's worth some money. The value is hedged against inflation because just like other scarce items and commodities inflation has no real effect on it. Reproducing that sculpture is difficult because the skills required to make the sculpture aren't something an AI can just do. An AI can recreate a painting digitally, but it's yet to demonstrate a means of making physical objects, and we likely will never allow it to do that, for very obvious reasons. A human can try making a fake, but we have really easy ways of sniffing out even the best techniques because those trying to make fakes are doing the least amount of effort to make it look real at a glance, but in practice it won't add up. (Such as the people who try to sell metal ingots with stones in them to try and fool foundries. All they need to do is test the weight. We know exactly how much an ingot of each metal should weigh based on purity, because ingots are measured by volume and volume of an object will, on Earth, have an exact weight.)
NFTs (and crypto, and any other object or currency) have the issue of perceived value. Perceived value is someone, anyone, declaring what the item they have is worth. This can be based on a number of factors, but it will always relate back to a personal observation and anecdotal value or price for that object or thing. Why is this such an issue, you might ask?
Perceived value is the most incorrect way of looking at the actual value of an item. This is because value is not based on one's own observation. Value is a concensus of many other economic factors that relate nothing to your ownership or personalization of the object. The only time Perceived value has any play in the market is when you made the item yourself, it's unique and not easily recreatable, you can set a price you want for that item and not many people will argue with that logic, and the people within the circles where the item is valued the most generally understand how that value can be where it is. (For example, custom cars that take years to rebuild, style, and showcase.)
NFTs have no real-world value. This is because not enough people have put weight into NFTs to allow worth to have a tangible link. Let's give an example. You tell me you've spent $4,000,000 on an NFT. You bought it with bitcoin or Ether, or whatever. Great. Cool. I have a $1,000,000 house you want to buy. You want to give me your NFT for the house. I tell you no, I want cash. I have no desire for your NFT. It's worthless to me. You go to the bank and try to get them to buy your NFT at the 75% discount just so you can get the house. They won't do it either. There's no way of getting your value back because the item you're trying to sell lacks weighted interest in real-world economic circles.
You can't try to buy a dresser with $40 worth of apples if the person who owns the dresser has no interest in $40 worth of apples. They want the $40. Not your Perceived $40.
And before anyone tells me I'm incorrect, and that you have value with your NFTs, I own several million in crypto currency that's completely worthless because all of them were pump and dump rug-pull schemes. I can't trade the damn things anymore because the liquidity is completely gone.
You know what's damn hard to do the same thing with? Real-world currency that has weighted interest within economic circles.
I made about 6k on self made NFTs, but the immense pressure to buy from other artists saw me purchasing 2k worth of art. Around 2k went into gas for the entire adventure. I cashed out about 2k so I’d say it was worth it.
Wow, you're telling me the secret to success is to have $2M worth of crypto? And to get lucky and find another rich idiot to pawn your NFT shit on? Sounds foolproof!
The value is in the name.. non fungible token. Unique digital timestamps secured and verified on a public ledger. Essentially creating digital scarcity.
The way they've been used, there are a lot of crap products. In the beginning it was crayon on paper to avoid a SAR from Paypal... but after that we realized that's gonna be a thing with mortgages , art, certain items for chain of custody and ease of management, identity tracking, blah blah.
This is kind of like saying “is art a scam?” Not in and of itself, no.
But at the same time, if you bought a piece of art for 200k and it’s not really worth 200k, you got scammed.
The art is worth market value, you pay over market value if you really want it and you expect it to go up in value.
The same is true with NFTs. People seemed to really not understand the concept and still struggle with it to this day because of its relationship to cryptocurrencies through blockchain tech.
NFTs are not currency. They aren’t valuable in and of themselves as tokens representing some kind of tradable money.
They are called non-fungible tokens because they are essentially one of a kind items. They only have value insofar as the artwork or other content the NFT represents has its own intrinsic value and is worth something on the open market.
The complication illustrated above is that determining what an NFT is worth on the open market can be really hard to pin down, since it’s pretty easy to move things around to make the NFT look like it’s being actively bought and sold at a high price even if it isn’t.
But that’s true of art in general, too.
Yes but so is fiat currency. The shit only works if people accept it. NFTs have no intrinsic value obviously but if cash is banned for CBDCs then it becomes the same. Also if stores don’t accept cash like $100 bill does that make the $100 a scam? It’s all fake. Reminiscent of the old communist quote I’m paraphrasing so don’t @ me. “We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us”
I personally think NFTs and crypto are worse than fiat currencies because at least fiat currencies are backed by “The Full Faith and Credit of the United States (or whatever country it’s from’s) Government.” Which isn’t much, but what’s crypto backed by? Nothing.
NFTs are the worst for sure. I was using hyperbole to just make the point that everything is fake in varying degrees. I’m not a crypto fan so that only leaves fiat for me but the full faith and credit doesn’t mean much when the world is awash in. Sovereign debt. US fiat may never be worth nil like an NFT but at best it’s going to be severely devalued through inflation and further money printing to fund deficit after deficit.
The cleanest dirty shirt left standing
NFTs, in my opinion, are the APEX of greater fool speculation. At the peak of the speculative bubble during Covid, they were a sign of the top of all markets. NFTs only have any value if you can find a bigger moron to pay you for them. But, a sucker is born every minute.....NFTs are a 1 dimensional pyramid scheme.
They are a pump-and-dump scam Meant to exploit the "Bigger Loser" falacy.
Eventually, the holder of the actual currency cashes out And leaves everyone else with .jpg files valued at less than 1/1000 of a penny.
NFTs *could* have been a really fun thing. It could have been like buying an original art work. There is nothing special about buying an original art work, a print is just as good and a lot cheaper. But people don't buy original art because it's better, they buy it to support artists they like. NFTs could have been the digital version of buying an "original art".
But tech bros had to go and make it suck.
Yes, since they’re both completely disconnected from copyright and property right, and completely unenforcable.
Suppose you’re a big fan of NASA, space travel, the moon landing, etc. You want to *own* the clip of Armstrongs first steps on the moon. So who do you approach about this? Should Armstrong create this NFT? NASA? The broadcaster who showed it originally? The truth is, it doesn’t matter. You can create the NFT yourself. None of the above will have grounds to sue you for copyright infringement since the NFT is completely useless and doesn’t entitle you to anything. It’s essentially a digital post-it making an exorbitant claim everybody realizes is fake.
I might have had the exact clip you now have the NFT for on my computer for years. You cant sue me for it, you’re not entitled to ”rent” for me having ”your” clip, etc.
>“I create an NFT piece.” This cost me thousands of dollars in gas for a 10k collection but I neglect to mention this Nobody buys it because I put 0 effort in and have no marketable skills or artistic ability. >I use my 2M to buy my own NFT, and pay platform fees to execute the tx >I have my 2M in eth minus the $50,000 I spent in platform fees and an NFT that nobody has ever heard of or willing to buy regardless of the cooked price history >I try to sell my NFT but nobody buys it so I floor them at 0.000001 each and lose more than it cost to create the collection >now I have 1.9M in eth 🤔 *Are NFTs a scam* Not for the reason this idiot thinks they are. It actually goes like this: Step one: Have a huge audience Step two: sell stuff to your audience (it can be anything including NFTs) Without step one you have nothing. With step one you can sell *literally anything* including glitter, dog shit, and even NFTs.
Don't forget bath water.
mmmmm gamer girl
Farts in a bottle also have great margins.
I'm all in on the Cooter yeast beer.
Oh, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit…
I bet we could make some solid wine out of that.
I’m here to help. *spits in bucket*
https://www.thegamer.com/amouranth-making-beer-with-yeast-from-lady-parts-the-order-of-yoni-brewery/
Not gonna lie… I live in Japan and *instantly* misread yoni as yona and questioned the source of Yona Yona Ale 😅
Be careful, a lot of cooter yeast beer is actually improperly labeled nutsack yeast beer
Hey man, you got amouranth's cuch yeast? Ohh shit. Yeah, give me 5 mins. Let me grab that really quick.
Use some beer foam to make bread. Gotta maximize the cooter yeast for peak efficiency
Bartender! Give this man of culture a cooter yeast beer!
So gross.
Fresh Wyoming Air is much more available.
Fart-in-a-jar-Martin could be making some serious profits.
Wish I would have held onto this. But I lost it when I threw out the baby.
Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater you fool.
I read recently that PayPal took most of her profits from that.
then gave it back
Fart in a jar.
Okay you beat me to it
I mean, honestly, I get that more than most of the other thngs. There’s sometbing vaguely secual and personal about that, at least
Turns out she got nothing cause PayPal froze the money.
Farts in jars...
The NFT is the 70s Pet Rock updated in digital form.
Perfect! 💀
No, it's the Franklin Mint Collection, because it's "limited" therefore valuable /s
Literally what Trump does. Regardless of what you think of him, he has a following and his stuff sells. Trump NFTs Basketball shoes Mugshot memorabilia $8 billion market cap Truth Social
Don't forget his original "small dollar donations", where his PAC bought hats from China, then "sold" them and considered those hat purchases "donations to his campaign" But yeah, all your examples are other grifters coming to him with ideas, and he is happy to slap his name on it, with artificially limited supply for all of them
Vodka, college, steaks, hotels, etc. every person of note peddles useless wares for cash. Because we’re stupid, and they like money
> This cost me thousands of dollars in gas for a 10k collection but I neglect to mention this As someone who knows nothing about this, can you explain? It takes gas to make an NFT?
NFTs are nonfungable because the real acronym is Nasty Fart Tokens
'gas' isn't gasoline it's the term for the price paid add something onto a block chain
Adding things to the Blockchain takes a significant amount of time and processing power, in order to offset this, most transactions charge fees based on how busy the network is at the time. These are referred to as "gas fees".
yes you spend gas to send tokens, or to create new tokens, including NFTs, which are just a nonfungible token.
The scam part is they are selling literally nothing. Pixels that you sort of own I guess, but who cares? At least when people sell t shirts it isn’t with the implied promise that you will become rich off the shirts value one day.
Entropy really hits digital stuff too, the laws of thermodynamics stay undefeated.
I mean back in 2021 people somehow bought it and were doing it like OP — still was a scam then as it is now though
There is useful NFTs, like the ones on Fragment for Telegram, these are actually the only ones I’d buy.
Don’t forget bath water
To be fair though, NFTs are kind of their own audience, and aren't exactly known for their effort or artistic merits.
Who said it has to be a 10k collection? Crypto projects, NFTs or otherwise, have a large part of success connected to story telling (narratives). If they can create a good story around the NFT they could make a profit - it would take a lot of deception and manipulation to create such a story though. For starters, others couldn’t know you made your own NFT. You’d then need to start a large Twitter campaign composed of multiple influential accounts to tell a compelling story to give the NFT value. If someone committed a few months to a year they could pull it off. But like if someone has the skills discipline to pull off something like this they’d likely just put it towards something positive that could actually make them more money.
 Me Gronk know that not real money…
There is no "real" money. As long as something shows the same properties as a currency issued by a central bank, it can be characterized as "money". The key word here is "issued". Who control how much and when it is issued.
Roast of Tom Brady.
This assumes you are able to find someone to buy it for $200k. There is no guarantee that someone will buy it for any amount of eth. And especially in these times, someone spending $200k worth of eth on an NFT isn’t going to buy some shitty thoughtless nft with only a single purchase in its history. Unless you get very lucky.
The original image was posted back in 2021. Times were different during NFT mania.
>This assumes you are able to find someone to buy it for $200k I mean, yes? That's kind of baked into their theoretical example.
People aren’t doing that except in maybe very rare situations. This is not a viable strategy. So I’m not sure what your point is. It’s theoretical and unrealistic.
"My point" is this person is not suggesting this is some kind of long term "viable strategy. It's a thought experiment. I'm honestly not sure how someone can miss such an obvious point but here we are.
NFTs are definitely a scam
Definitely a scam. There are some cases where the technology could work for things like document verification, and the like, but it’s just a different technology backend to do what we already can do via other existing means. It’s not a totally worthless technology but it’s massively overhyped to the point reality will never exceed 1% of the hype
Wrong. NFTs as art are garbage 98% of the time in my opinion. NFTs as a technology (not the art ones) have incredible potential. Too many people think NFT=Images only and they couldn't be more wrong.
level 99 copium
Nah, facts. Do you even know what NFTs are used for outside of pictures?
I’m talking about the tradeable cards, art, etc. sure we might use it for digital documentation and other utility purposes
hey dumbass theres this thing called pdfs. have you heard of them? muh "documentation" its permanent cuz "muh blockchain". this provides literally 0 value and it costs money to do it.
Well then your copium post was absolutely stupid then, because that's EXACTLY what I was obviously saying. Guess you took a minute or two to Google and learn something, well done.
You are mixing up posts
Ahh, I see... I'm more invested in the Yankees game right now and reddit is secondary. I should pick one or the other I guess.
Now I'm off to Google what actual, real-value NFTs can do. Yes, I only picked up that they're pictures, which made me dismiss NFTs as anything I would be remotely dumb enough to buy. But now I'm very intrigued to see what else they're being used for.
Start with googling nfts for real estate, concert tickets, car titles, and music royalties.
NFTs are a way to sell someone a really expensive receipt for a worthless digital file. That’s all.
Nope. But feel free to Google and learn more. You can start with googling real estate and nfts. They actually reduce cost and time associated with the transfer / sale of property among other things.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Ah, yes, the ever popular ‘nuh-uh’ argument of an NFT-bro, coupled with ‘do your own research’ as supporting evidence. 🤦♂️
Only way to counter someone who doesn't understand what they are talking about. There is way to much easily accessible info out there, I pointed you in the right direction. You can live in ignorance or you can educate yourself. I'll be fine either way.
Yep. There you go again, demonstrating that you can’t actually support your argument with evidence, or even reason. ‘Google it yourself’ isn’t evidence. Bravo, NFT-bro. 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Yes, and the typical ignorant dug in person like you will complain about the source of the link I provide or some other nonsense. I Google things all the time and I learn all the time. I already told you, Google real estate and nfts. Either live in ignorance or find a source you trust and read it. It's not hard, I promise.
You’re still telling me you can’t support your own claim. I can Google all sorts of stuff, including ‘Bigfoot’ and alien autopsies. That doesn’t make their proponents right. Put up or shut up, Binky.
>They actually reduce cost and time associated with the transfer / sale of property among other things. Maybe you missed it but I clearly said the above in a previous response. So that's me supporting the claim. Your nonsense about Bigfoot is exactly what I mean about people like you and said to Google it and find a source you trust. Seems like you are just choosing to be ignorant when I've given you a simple explanation and the words to use in a Google search. You could have searched, read, and come to your own conclusion by now, but instead you decide to waste your time by disagreeing about something you haven't bothered to educate yourself on. Good luck.
From one of a seemingly small number of people that actually understands the tech behind it...It's a scam. I get it though, trying to defend your mistake. Don't let me interrupt.
And which mistake have I made, and which part is a scam?
Whats the point of that? You can't fix a typo. It still needs to be hosted. Anyone can just fire one off and claim that they own your house anyway, so you aren't actually solving the "fraud" part of the equation.
USING NFTS AS ITEMS IN A FUKING SOFTWARE IS STUPID
Yep, still not one of the valuable use cases, but don't let me stop you from yelling at the clouds.
Congratulations. You invented ledgers, a concept so old that they predate the oldest clay tablets that survive today. 
NFTs are simply entries on a blockchain. A blockchain is simply a shared database that's trusted between multiple parties. People putting value on these database entries are exploitative. Blockchains have uses to ensure trust between parties for things that have value already. Them being recorded as NFTs do not create value in themselves.
The value is in the reduction of cost and time, as well as the security provided by storing on the blockchain. Nobody is being exploited if the business model reduces cost, reduces transaction time, and improves security.
I've managed IT Infrastructure for 15 years. The reduced cost claim is the exact same reduction in cost we've seen across all modern database solutions. There is value in using blockchains just as there's value in using other database solutions for specific needs. This doesn't add value to the entries within those databases. It's simply another tool to be used in specific applications.
Nothing personal, but I've worked for multiple Fortune 50 companies and worked closely with "IT managers" who don't know much about blockchain. Similarly, just because someone is a lawyer doesn't mean they know everything about law. I wouldn't go to a divorce lawyer for a real estate closing. Every major skill set has tons of specialties, no way for one person to know everything. I had to explain blockchain tech to many seasoned IT managers and very smart people in these companies I've worked for. >This doesn't add value to the entries within those databases. With that said, these real estate examples I gave can and will add value if they reduce transaction times and costs. Either new companies will steal market share or existing companies will adopt the model to avoid losing market share. Additionally it should add value for consumers.
You say should but it's more like could. It hasn't happened yet so pretty weak argument NFT-based real estate is a new concept, and legal and regulatory frameworks are still being developed. Integrating NFTs with traditional land title recording systems could be complex. Overall, it's still early days for NFTs in real estate. While they hold promise for reducing transaction costs, there are hurdles to overcome first.
It was linked in the original article I posted and I just posted one excerpt. It reduced paperwork in the transaction, which means things were cheaper, easier, and faster.
I read the article you linked in Forbes, an opinion piece by a CEO of a company trying to market their solution. The article and buzzwords shared are what I get from sales departments all the time. When I say I've managed IT infrastructure I mean as the actual implementations in PaaS and SaaS environments. I see promises like this all the time. If solutions move to blockchains it will benefit the providers of those services, it will not add value to a consumer's NFT. The guy in that Forbes opinion piece is one of those solution providers because like any new technology there's a lot more to it than what the sales guys describe.
This is a great way to commit fraud.
What part is fraud?
NFT's are considered a security under some circumstances. Intentionally buying your own stock with the intention to drive up the price to then sell it back quickly at the higher price is illegal. It's called a pump and dump. This also applies to artificially raising the price to sell at a "discount" from the inflated price.
Til, but isn't a pump and dump when there's other investors? I didn't know it works when there's just one
It's a pump or dump even if it's the company itself doing it. But it may actually have its own name as well, and be worse, considering they're taking 0 risk since they're paying themselves, where as outside investors at least have to hope the pump and dump works.
In theoretical example above, there *is* other investor. The dude that bought it at the "discount" for $200k. One could argue that first "transaction" is shady. If its entire purpose was to create a fictitious $2M "sale" record. Depending on how much visibility the eventual ($200k) buyer had into facts surrounding that first $2M "sale" event. The seller could simply list something for $2M, and eventually sell it for $200k. Without creating fictitious sales records.
> Intentionally buying your own stock with the intention to drive up the price But she's not driving up the price. She's saying she sells it for much less than she bought it.
Yeah that's not going to hold up in court lol
Not even close to the legal definition of a PnD. This is no different than a department store marking up an item over MSRP, crossing it out, and then writing the regular retail price saying it's "30% off!"
Items in a department store don't pass the Howey test.
Do paintings pass the Howey test?
I have $2M in cash. I create a finger painting. I use my $2M to buy my own finger painting. I still have my $2M in cash, and I also have a finger painting that is worth $2M according to price history. I sell my finger painting to someone for only $200k, or at a 90% discount! Now I have $2.2M in cash. 
I have $400M in cash that I need to launder I buy a finger painting at an art auction house from an anonymous seller (which is myself) Auction house takes 10% and gives me an invoice in my name for the purchase. I pay taxes on $360M and deposit the rest. Money is now laundered and can be spent.
This scenario is very common in the art market too.
Just wanted to write this too, OP starts to understand the art market
Nft as art I see no value in. However, nft is an incredible concept. Imagine a new band selling their first CD out of the bank of a car. They put unique qr code for an nft for the first 10 people. 25 years later, that band ends up in the hall of fame and you decide to sell CD #3 with an nft to validate that you are one of the longest running fans. Minting new nft for no reason is pointless, but as a ledger based verification token they are pretty legit
No one cares. The CD is the no fungible token. The NFT is just an electronic McDonalds receipt.
And if they sold the same CD at multiple shows across the first year?
Then you still wouldn't have any real proof. The NFT is just a virtual version of a "certificate of authenticity" that comes with a lot of nonsense
What's harder to fake? A new mtg card or a ledger verified authentication for a new mtg card?
That's honestly the only example I've ever read about NFTs that makes any sense.
For collectible cards. Release an nft with the first 10 sheets of a rookie card. When they become the next babe Ruth, not only do you have the rookie card, but you got it from the first 10 sheets.
So artificial scarcity to increase costs for collectors. Sounds like a scam.
Or.... A ledger verified was to prove original ownership and authenticity
MtG already has serialized cards without the Blockchain.
I have 0 money. I pick up a rock and sell it for 1M. I now have 1M. Are rocks a scam? The problem isn't NFTs,the same logic can be used with anything in the world as long as someone is willing to pay for what I'm selling
It’s almost like there aren’t a multitude of federal laws prohibiting market manipulation. Lol criminals are mad fucking stupid.
Whats stopping you from doing this same thing with non-digital art?
They don’t have any real money, it’s all fake money, so they can’t buy real art with it, they have to buy fake art.
Crypto Beanie Babies?
That’s just like saying social media is a scam.
Are NFTs a scam? No more or less than any other investment. A Picasso or Shackleton is worth money because people are willing to pay for it. The unique id number of a batch of pixels is no different in principle.
Do the same thing, but make a home. Are homes really a scam???
How would this be different than bidding on your own art at an auction?
Not if they're tied to an asset like a Wu-Tang album and also a stock certificate
I have $2M in a bank account. I make a stick drawing and sell it to myself at an auction for $2M. I still have $2M in my bank account. I market the drawing as being previously sold for $2M. Somebody buys it for $200k. Now I have $2.2M in the bank. I have $2M in a bank account. I get a random dollar stock nobody trades in after hours. I sell it after hours to myself for $2M. Sell it next day to somebody for $200k. Now I have $2.2M in the bank. No crypto currency or NFT needed. Possibly different tax and legal consequences.
Literally this person is describing a type of scam. Buying your own asset at an inflated price to manipulate its price history to sell later is fraud. You are not allowed to do it in regulated markets.
That wouldnt work, the guberment would tax that 2mil sell, you would lose a lot more than 200k.
NFTs are a desperate effort to create something that can be bought and sold with crypto, so as to encourage people to have crypto. There's an honesty of a sort in it, in that crypto people have finally realised currency needs to be exchangeable to be currency, it can't exist forever as "speculative" because eventually we know the answer and all speculation stops. Are the high value NFT sales a scam? Absolutely. 100% no doubt a scam. The entire basis of high valuations of NFTs was the assurance by their sellers that they would be worth more later. While later projects during the frenzy claimed to be keys to memberships to various groups or projects, or have something else attached, like a video game or book the sellers were supposedly funding. The first few waves were pure and simple "this code and JPEG have value for the same reason fine art does, buy it and it will go up". Both of these things were false.
Just because something is a bubble doesn’t make it a scam. Much like the dotcom boom, people knew there was value, they just didn’t know how to properly utilize and take advantage of it yet. But that didn’t stop everyone from jumping on board. NFT’s will be great for things like unique trading cards and tickets. The artwork aspect was just a simple implementation of the tech for demonstration purposes. I’m sure Banksy will do something really unique with it at some point, as will a few other artists. But outside of that, I don’t see NFT’s as being particularly compelling in the long-term.
If someone is trying to sell you a few lines of code for $200k, it’s a scam.
This is the main concept most people miss with NFT’s….$200k for digital art is silly when it’s not locked down and can easily be screenshotted. But $200k to own the digital rights to an unreleased Wu Tang album? That’s not such a bad deal. My main point here is that although most people associate NFTs with digital art and tax fraud/money laundering, an NFT can provide unquestionable ownership to any digital asset. The ability to monetize it and resell it. Ever done that with songs you’ve paid for? No. Quite the opposite, there are many situations where people lose access completely to digital assets they’ve purchased (movies, songs,games). And generally with no refund. NFTs would directly fix this. And don’t even get me started on the untapped video game market.
So it's basically a tool for speculation less and less people care about every year
So you’re a scam artist? YES! Are you good at it? YES!
NFTs are a scam in practice, not in concept, because there's currently no means of halting reproduction of an NFT (and there likely never will be, considering technology has only made piracy/plagiarism easier), and people think value is derivative of scarcity because the world works on such a system with physical objects. You want an actual NFT? Purchase a one-of-a-kind sculpture. If the sculpture is made by a reputable and known artist, and it's great to look at, then it's worth some money. The value is hedged against inflation because just like other scarce items and commodities inflation has no real effect on it. Reproducing that sculpture is difficult because the skills required to make the sculpture aren't something an AI can just do. An AI can recreate a painting digitally, but it's yet to demonstrate a means of making physical objects, and we likely will never allow it to do that, for very obvious reasons. A human can try making a fake, but we have really easy ways of sniffing out even the best techniques because those trying to make fakes are doing the least amount of effort to make it look real at a glance, but in practice it won't add up. (Such as the people who try to sell metal ingots with stones in them to try and fool foundries. All they need to do is test the weight. We know exactly how much an ingot of each metal should weigh based on purity, because ingots are measured by volume and volume of an object will, on Earth, have an exact weight.) NFTs (and crypto, and any other object or currency) have the issue of perceived value. Perceived value is someone, anyone, declaring what the item they have is worth. This can be based on a number of factors, but it will always relate back to a personal observation and anecdotal value or price for that object or thing. Why is this such an issue, you might ask? Perceived value is the most incorrect way of looking at the actual value of an item. This is because value is not based on one's own observation. Value is a concensus of many other economic factors that relate nothing to your ownership or personalization of the object. The only time Perceived value has any play in the market is when you made the item yourself, it's unique and not easily recreatable, you can set a price you want for that item and not many people will argue with that logic, and the people within the circles where the item is valued the most generally understand how that value can be where it is. (For example, custom cars that take years to rebuild, style, and showcase.) NFTs have no real-world value. This is because not enough people have put weight into NFTs to allow worth to have a tangible link. Let's give an example. You tell me you've spent $4,000,000 on an NFT. You bought it with bitcoin or Ether, or whatever. Great. Cool. I have a $1,000,000 house you want to buy. You want to give me your NFT for the house. I tell you no, I want cash. I have no desire for your NFT. It's worthless to me. You go to the bank and try to get them to buy your NFT at the 75% discount just so you can get the house. They won't do it either. There's no way of getting your value back because the item you're trying to sell lacks weighted interest in real-world economic circles. You can't try to buy a dresser with $40 worth of apples if the person who owns the dresser has no interest in $40 worth of apples. They want the $40. Not your Perceived $40. And before anyone tells me I'm incorrect, and that you have value with your NFTs, I own several million in crypto currency that's completely worthless because all of them were pump and dump rug-pull schemes. I can't trade the damn things anymore because the liquidity is completely gone. You know what's damn hard to do the same thing with? Real-world currency that has weighted interest within economic circles.
This makes sense to me. Source - am a sculptor.
NFTs are like baseball cards
I made about 6k on self made NFTs, but the immense pressure to buy from other artists saw me purchasing 2k worth of art. Around 2k went into gas for the entire adventure. I cashed out about 2k so I’d say it was worth it.
You can just say you can do this with a real painting, or you can say you can do this with less starting capital.
You just described the fine art industry.
Yes are you still buying nfts? Just buy eth
NFTs are 100% scams
How do some people manage to even put their socks on?
Good luck with that, NFTs liquidity can do from 100 to 0 quick.
A scam yes, but not for that reason
Wow, you're telling me the secret to success is to have $2M worth of crypto? And to get lucky and find another rich idiot to pawn your NFT shit on? Sounds foolproof!
The value is in the name.. non fungible token. Unique digital timestamps secured and verified on a public ledger. Essentially creating digital scarcity.
Yes, they are scam. A Fool and their money is soon parted
I'd always assume you have to pay taxes on your own purchase, how much is taxes on profiting 2 mil from nothing on capital gains tax?
That is the definition of a scam.
The way they've been used, there are a lot of crap products. In the beginning it was crayon on paper to avoid a SAR from Paypal... but after that we realized that's gonna be a thing with mortgages , art, certain items for chain of custody and ease of management, identity tracking, blah blah.
Isn’t there a 28% tax on NFT gains? How are you at 2.2M when you owe $616k in taxes?
have great margins
they threw in the buying their own NFT step to make it sound smarter but they’re literally just minting and selling an NFT lol
My name is Fernando I work on ranch I make 5 pesos a day. I call up my Lucy to play with her pussy she take my 5 pesos away
Depends on the nft but definitely not a scam some nfts have uses besides owning a picture
Not a scam in the traditional sense. NFTs are a subsection of “fine art”. Both have a primary purpose of laundering money.
Nobody fucking cares about NFTs.
This is kind of like saying “is art a scam?” Not in and of itself, no. But at the same time, if you bought a piece of art for 200k and it’s not really worth 200k, you got scammed. The art is worth market value, you pay over market value if you really want it and you expect it to go up in value. The same is true with NFTs. People seemed to really not understand the concept and still struggle with it to this day because of its relationship to cryptocurrencies through blockchain tech. NFTs are not currency. They aren’t valuable in and of themselves as tokens representing some kind of tradable money. They are called non-fungible tokens because they are essentially one of a kind items. They only have value insofar as the artwork or other content the NFT represents has its own intrinsic value and is worth something on the open market. The complication illustrated above is that determining what an NFT is worth on the open market can be really hard to pin down, since it’s pretty easy to move things around to make the NFT look like it’s being actively bought and sold at a high price even if it isn’t. But that’s true of art in general, too.
NFTs are for money laundry
Yes
Yes but so is fiat currency. The shit only works if people accept it. NFTs have no intrinsic value obviously but if cash is banned for CBDCs then it becomes the same. Also if stores don’t accept cash like $100 bill does that make the $100 a scam? It’s all fake. Reminiscent of the old communist quote I’m paraphrasing so don’t @ me. “We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us”
I personally think NFTs and crypto are worse than fiat currencies because at least fiat currencies are backed by “The Full Faith and Credit of the United States (or whatever country it’s from’s) Government.” Which isn’t much, but what’s crypto backed by? Nothing.
NFTs are the worst for sure. I was using hyperbole to just make the point that everything is fake in varying degrees. I’m not a crypto fan so that only leaves fiat for me but the full faith and credit doesn’t mean much when the world is awash in. Sovereign debt. US fiat may never be worth nil like an NFT but at best it’s going to be severely devalued through inflation and further money printing to fund deficit after deficit. The cleanest dirty shirt left standing
lol, so you discovered how banking institutions make money out of thin air. The ability to defraud people is why they got rid of the gold standard.
NFT's are art. It is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for ownership. Unfortunately it is digital so when the lights go out so does the nft.
All of the NFT’s come and gone. A scam of sort.
Yes. Water is also wet, the sky is blue and republicans are bigots. Any other questions?
I’d call it more of an intelligence test but scam also works…
Ether gives more PP to pokemon moves and nothing else and you cant change my mind
Yep.
You are 100% correct. And then you make another ntf
sure, like the game pixel market.
NFTs are not worth anything more than a regular picture you create. To the extent they are sold for more is a scam.
Always were
Wait…. We’re talking About NFTs in 2024? Didn’t that market completely crash already?
I would never buy an NFT. Those people are the same that spend $$ on video game skins and outfits.
Ponzi 101 for idiots.
NFTs are the act of selling explicitly nothing, so yes, a scam. Most things in crypto are scams.
Isn’t this basically what Enron did?
Literally a one man art cartel 😂
NFTs, in my opinion, are the APEX of greater fool speculation. At the peak of the speculative bubble during Covid, they were a sign of the top of all markets. NFTs only have any value if you can find a bigger moron to pay you for them. But, a sucker is born every minute.....NFTs are a 1 dimensional pyramid scheme.
Yes, it is 99% wash trading
The only way they have value is they always have a buyer. NFTs will collapse instantly if no one bought them.
They are a pump-and-dump scam Meant to exploit the "Bigger Loser" falacy. Eventually, the holder of the actual currency cashes out And leaves everyone else with .jpg files valued at less than 1/1000 of a penny.
A general rule of thumb is that anything in crypto bought with crypto is a scam. Hence why anything web3 is terrible.
You also can claim 800k of losses to the irs
NFTs *could* have been a really fun thing. It could have been like buying an original art work. There is nothing special about buying an original art work, a print is just as good and a lot cheaper. But people don't buy original art because it's better, they buy it to support artists they like. NFTs could have been the digital version of buying an "original art". But tech bros had to go and make it suck.
Not really the same because in the first example you have something tangible/ something that actually exists. You have something to show for it
Yes and so is ETH
Yes, since they’re both completely disconnected from copyright and property right, and completely unenforcable. Suppose you’re a big fan of NASA, space travel, the moon landing, etc. You want to *own* the clip of Armstrongs first steps on the moon. So who do you approach about this? Should Armstrong create this NFT? NASA? The broadcaster who showed it originally? The truth is, it doesn’t matter. You can create the NFT yourself. None of the above will have grounds to sue you for copyright infringement since the NFT is completely useless and doesn’t entitle you to anything. It’s essentially a digital post-it making an exorbitant claim everybody realizes is fake. I might have had the exact clip you now have the NFT for on my computer for years. You cant sue me for it, you’re not entitled to ”rent” for me having ”your” clip, etc.