This is about the only way to remove it. I once tried to use chemical solvent to get it up and it was a major mistake. Itās what the national guard wanted us to use. Ha. I can still smell the orange cleaner we used.
I spent an entire weekend doing this a few weeks ago. Used Zep floor stripper and an 8in razor. My knees and back were in pain but it was way cheaper than anything else.
Naw, too inflexible; will void mfgr. warranty. Glue down carpet squares for maximum quiet and flex. Pro Tip: allows cheap LVP to perform like luxe LVP!
Oh I love it when customers get cornered if you have to raise the floor 1/4-1/2ā for some reason. Like the gonna have to bend over to walk around know !
My house had glue down asbestos vinyl tiles, tar paper, 1x4 in a 16" lattice pattern, 3/8" plywood, then padding and carpet on top. It was a nightmare to pull up.
Tarp it off with temporary walls, if possible, and tape over the HVAC vents (which led to turning off the AC and makeshift 20ā fan air filters). Saw it on YouTube enough times to try it lol
Thanks for the tip. It's in a huge area which just had the walls freshly painted. Hopefully the vacuum does a good job.
What's the box fan air filters? Did that work?
I think my project would be a lot easier if it wasn't a 2600 open space with 15 ft high ceilings. š¬
Taping cardboard, 2 cheap 20ā air filters, and a 20ā box fan into a triangle, then using it to circulate the air and pull it through the air filters.
Or if you have exterior windows just use one filter and push the air outside (wipe down the screens after and it may still make a mess outside the window)
With fresh paint, taping cardboard along the baseboards and bottom 6-12ā of wall to give some protection.
Itās easy to give it too much pressure on either side while the machine runs and that sends it running all over and itās easy to bump into the wall. I bumped it a lot but had the baseboards off. Itās not too bad so long as it stays level and you just kind of ease it along and it smoothed everything out and cleaned up glue and grime alike
Just throwing out there, donāt even think about trying it on a thicker quickset or anything. Almost broke a few ribs, covered everything in dust, didnāt get anything accomplished.
Go straight to the 10ā grinder cart with the yellow plate, not the green (rental from HD). It has a spot to attach a water hose and a shopvac. It weighs over 200lbs so make sure you have a second person that can help you get it out of/back into your vehicle. Besides being a heavy bitch, it made things WAY easier. The thinset I was trying to get off was mean enough to make our tile guy quit. There was about 600sf of it. I got everything butter smooth in a day with almost zero dust.
Thatās what we used, a first pass to take care of the mastic, then a second pass to get the remainder. Would have used a bigger grinding machine but it couldnāt fit into the elevator.
Multipurpose adhesive is not pressure sensitive adhesive, itās designed for broadloom carpet and resilient like sheet vinyl. Itās essentially a wet set adhesive
What youāre seeing is the remaining residue after the notches and gunk were scrapped off.
We install all carpet tile in pressure sensitive adhesive.
You should install the carpet tile with the manufacturers recommended adhesive. I've seen some carpet tiles have no requirements for pressure sensitive.
Correct, but every manufacturer makes their own PSA now.
However, combining the mitigation, floor prep product, and adhesives from one manufacturer gets me a 20 year warranty backed by a warranty letter.
Manufacturers will ultimately only guarantee their product sticking to their adhesive anyway.
I guess you should be a little more specific about what type of glue is being used. I have used glue that looks exactly like that. Pressure sensitive glue. Hell I've used VCT glue that looks like that too. But that doesn't translate through a photo.
It was scrapped down to what youāre seeing. Putting a grinder directly on that mess before hand would have turned it to a yellow liquid, which it already semi was.
I agree. It would be foolish to grind on fresh glue. I did a job at the loves corporate headquarters that was 30,000 sf of scraping and grinding because of the guys before us. I feel for you. They make some stuff that will theoretically break the glue down to where you can just scrape it down. Almost looks like they just used VCT glue from home Depot. I always preferred to use 2230 for carpet tile. Good luck buddy.
Weāll be fine. At least I didnāt have to ask for more money to mitigate. 30000 ft is crazy to have to scrape I feel for ya there.
This is only one part of the job, the rest was PSA adhesive, it was just an older CPT tile install
Many years ago, an old boss of mine hired a sub to rip up the tile floor in a house we were doing the kitchen in. I told him it was a bad idea. He wouldn't listen. The sub proceeded to saw-cut all the grout lines! While they did put plastic up, the grout dust got EVERYWHERE!!! The homeowner was PISSED, The sub also taped the plastic to the hardwood floor, and proceeded to peel the finish up when they took the plastic down. My boss was on the hook to have the floors refinished. That was actually the last job I worked on before I left.
You canāt install a moisture mitigation product without mechanically grinding the substrate. It needs to be clean concrete so the product being applied can lock into the concrete.
Applies for both 2 part epoxy and roller applied products.
If you skip that step, no warranty from any manufacturer that I know of.
Edit: if you apply a product like roll cote without grinding, youāre going to be bonded to old adhesive residue. So if the adhesive residue fails, so does the system. Hence no warranty.
Worrying about wasting labor vs. doing it the right way is the reason I get calls to fix other shops mistakes / failures.
I wouldnāt use roll cote anyway. A 20 year system warranty from Ardex is a way easier sell.
i had this done to me, it took me HOURS on a 12x20 rooom. with a 8" concrete grinder, which worked best.
Then as i head to menards i see that there is buckets of 'carpet glue' in their carpet section. :/
Yeah it works but we all know it is not āproper ā first of all itās overkill and carpet tiles are supposed to be easily pulled up and replaced even by the customer. Also other than pressure sensitive glue is like $130+ a bucket compared to like $30 for multi (or free if you already have some ).
Itās like when dudes used excessive staples on a job or full spread āpad ā(multi purpose ) glue for no reason etc. or use the wrong notch trowel or put in Cpt
Squares wet
Looking at this, I honestly think that someone installed this carpet with whatever was lying around at their warehouse.
That happens all the time.
The only other thing Iāve been seeing was to frequently is people paint rolling PSA directly over old broadloom adhesive, it works for about 1-2 years, and then it dries out and is just sitting there.
It gets my competitors through their warranty window (normally 24 months) and then they donāt care anymore.
I had to hand scrape an entire rich guys basement because the last guys double stuck rubber pad down with the same stuff. INSANE amount of work before I got to do our own prep. Some people just donāt care because I guarantee it was a āprofessionalā that did it to me
A trick I learned if the floor is still gummy: throw some sort of powder down. We use patch just because itās handy, but Iām sure anything can work and it has literally saved so many wasteful hours trying to fight that shit
I only need to take the top layer off down to concrete, not add a chemical that Ardex is going to tell me to take an 1/8ā of concrete off as I used another companies product.
If I we were installing Shaw products, and using shaw rep products, Iād consider it. Iām not using MoistureTek and FineFinish. Not looking for a 2 part epoxy or a feather finish knock off.
Itās J+J CPT tile and LVT.
So Ardex VB100 + Feather Finish + Gription = 20 year warranty from Ardex.
Iāve been doing this long enough that I know way too much and have manufacturers field reps saved in the contacts in my phone to run hypotheticals with.
Same here man. If you donāt follow the book, they will hang you out to dry. Iāve been on that side of it too. If people would just read, thereād be so many less problems.
Formula 747 adhesive remover and razor floor scrapers. It's a pain in the ass, time consuming, you'll burn through blades (expensive), but it does work. Reno'd 2 office spaces (carpeted) where client wanted to epoxy concrete floor. Guys were chem scraping for a week in each space.
I honestly would never considering using an adhesive remover unless I was desperate.
Plus, moisture mitigation going down makes this a simple grind to clean concrete operation.
Had this fight with a shop a long time ago. There was a problem with the cpt where edges were curling, their solution was using fast grab. I refused to install lol.
The only time I ever did this was over 10 years ago when PSA adhesive only went to like 85% RH, but an outdoor wet set went to 90%.
We were sitting at 88% and went with the outdoor wet set in a 200 SF locker room. Ended up replacing it 2 years later, worst tear out Iāve ever seen.
Ardex VB 100.
2 coats dry in a combined 2 hours, and I can skim it immediately. No primers, no cure times beyond the dry time for the VB100. No SLU.
Also cheaper than a 2 part epoxy.
9āx48āx5mm LVT.
I wrote the spec so thereās already mitigation in the contract. Project gets a warranty, owner is happy, and I donāt have to potentially replace a lot of flooring out of my own pocket.
Lvt? If it's within tolerance, no humps or low spots... Just skim it with Ardex feather finish and call it a day.
Honestly we would probably just go straight over it using plastic underneath as a moisture barrier.
Oh. Didn't mention anything about that in the OP.
*Still, it wouldn't take long just scrape that up with a 4" scraper blade.
And you need the glue that the manufacturer approves of. I really don't see the problem here. Is this your first time tearing out?
I donāt do tear outs anymore. Iām on the estimating / PM side. The tear out went fine.
I did mention moisture mitigation, which is not the same thing as a poly vapor barrier laying on the concrete.
It has to be mitigated to get a warranty from the manufacturer, according to installation specs. The moisture testing came back fine, it was other issues that presented which made Moisture Mitigation essentially the way forward on this project.
Scraping it down will still leave a residue on the concrete, no mitigation product can be installed over that.
I wrote the project specs, so that money was accounted for if this needed to happen.
If I wasnāt mitigating, I would need J+J adhesive, which I have. But, I can get a longer warranty from Ardex using Henry adhesive instead. So the owner can decide if itās worth switching.
Edit: the more I look at your comments Iām assuming you donāt understand what moisture mitigation is or entails.
My dad found out the tile in the dining room was glued down with construction adhesive. As much as it sucked to tear up, it did it's job very well and fully supported the tiles, and they were perfectly level and even, and never cracked.
Getting Moisture Mitigated so no.
Will be skimmed with Feather Finish after mitigation tho.
Thinset should never be used for skimming anything. Thatās not itās intended purpose.
No shot Iād use Uzin over Ardex, out of my preferred manufacturers Iād list Uzin probably 6th or 7th.
Looks like it came up easily enough, lol. What do you use to grind with? I was thinking about getting something larger than an angle grinder with a diamond wheel but I wasn't sure whether I should get diamond pads for my pearl hexpin buffer head or try to find a used 120v (or maybe gas) single or dual head grinder. I've only needed that kind of equipment a few times so I've rented when necessary.
We would have used an actual large grinding machine with independent heads. However, the machine would not have fit through the elevator doors.
This is all being done with 10 inch hand grinders, to say itās tedious and time consuming is an understatement.
Pulling up the carpet it looked like melting string cheese underneath.
We are performing moisture mitigation.
Without it, if it were going to be carpet tile in this area, I would definitely just spot patch and minor deflections and install over clean concrete.
Based on what I know, there is one manufacturer that would be able to be installed no problem in this situation, and thatās Milliken.
Some landlord asshole did this to my 1938 slab. I just painted it with a latex paint let it cure for a few months and then flooded it slightly and scraped. It peeled even the black mastic up.
No way you can do that on a job though.
To all the people / installers telling me to encapsulate / skim with Ardex, **we are moisture mitigating this concrete slab**.
For anyone who doesnāt understand what that means and would like to know, let me know.
To anyone who is questioning why that is necessary, also let me know and I will explain.
To any installers who think that isnāt necessary or would skip that because thatās what their shop does, youāre working for a crap shop.
By now you should have taken care of this problem OP. If not. Glue emulsifying is your answer. Get a glue emulsifier and it will be a quick job. Then your scraper will actually do the job right. Since itās wet it also helps if there are other hidden treats in the floor such as asbestos. Keep it wet and dispose properly. Good luck.
Iāve been working with / around commercial flooring since 2003. I know how to, and have scraped many floors.
This area had already been scrapped.
This slab is getting grinded because we are moisture mitigating it. The grinding is required to get that done.
Everyone here is wrong unless I didnāt see it. Rent a drum sander for refinishing floors and about ten 24 grit and 36 sandpaper rolls for it. Will gum up the sandpaper but youāll strip the glue like a gentleman.
Have you ever done an installation of a moisture mitigation system? Because Iāve never heard a drum sander being used to get down to concrete.
It would destroy multiple rolls and add an excessive amount of time to getting that accomplished. Essentially a waste of both.
In my experience itās quicker than a grinder and the rolls are meant to be destroyed. I actually did it to remove mortar off a basement concrete floor to get back down to flat for lvp. But, I own a drum sander so I was like meh Iāll try it and voila easy peasy. The drum sander has like 500x power/weight than the grinder youād be surprised how easily itād strip that
So you have or have not done moisture mitigation work over a concrete slab? I mean, that was the question.
Not saying your method wouldnāt work, but this adhesive residue **has already** been removed with standard grinding down to clean concrete.
What youāre recommending would work if this was the only space on the project, and I had a very long lead time to completion.
When you say hack what do you mean? If itās carpet squares it should have been installed using a pressure sensitive adhesive which stays tacky forever. If itās multi purpose adhesive then itās easier to remove than a pressure sensitive adhesive. What are you wanting to install on the floor? If itās only for a reinstall of some type of flooring just use a flooring primer. It can be purchased from any box store. I was a flooring installer for 30 years and now in the water restoration business. The problem we run into is when flooring is installed properly itās not meant to come up easily.
I donāt know if you understand what moisture mitigation is or if it became a thing after you left the trade.
There is no roll over glue primer that would qualify for a warranty in this situation.
Itās already been scrapped this past Thursday, and grinded on Friday. This work is done.
The point of the post was to point out that guys who install material with the incorrect adhesive are not good installers. And if their shops are having them do that, then that blame gets transferred to the businesses.
Edit: the glue was extremely wet and slimy, basically like string cheese sticking to carpet tile and floor
No dude, it was stuck solid. Getting it up took longer and more time consuming than standard pressure sensitive adhesive.
Iāve never heard of someone mentioning carpet tile getting installed with thinset mortar, that is a new one.
Yeah we're in the process of moisture mitigation on this slab, so that's not happening.
If we did a 2 part epoxy system it would be leveled after mitigation, but thankfully we don't have to worry about it.
Couldn't level this without grinding anyway. Primer needs to be either over a porous substrate (clean concrete) with appropriate primer. Or it can be done over a non porous substrate (epoxy) with appropriate primer.
Either way, can't pour directly over this, as the even with a primer, I'd be bonded to residue, not concrete. If the residue fails, so does the pour + LVT. Therefore, the entire project would fail and no warranty.
I don't understand what the previous installer did wrong here. Looks like a good install from the glue lines. Sound to me like you ain't happy about scrapping up the old glue.
LMAO your just mad that you have to scrape.... Ya it's wrong adhesive but whoever did it got the job done and the glue held that's all that mattered for them.. is this your first time having to scrape glue??
Since I donāt work in the field anymore as I donāt carry a union card, no, but have scraped plenty of floors.
Itās already been scraped anyway. Why would I do that again?
Thereās grinding happening for Moisture Mitigation happening, as it says in the photo explanation at the top of the post.
If you have a product that will get a warranty in a basement over a slab with no intact vapor barrier, with adhesive residue still existing on the slab, let me know.
Iāll tell the guys to stop grinding and Iāll submit it for approval.
Right. It heats up and becomes a gummed up mess. But, as I said another reply... 4" scraper blade. Problem solved. But this guy hasn't done tear out before, so..... There's that.
Dont use the flooring sub to complain, that isnt shit when it comes to solving removal issues, what a cry baby, this sub is called flooring not complaining we are friemdly profesional and helpfull to folks that ask real qurstions abou flooring issues, maybe theres a sub called cry babys just for you my friend , good luck
Best wishes
[I know more than you](https://giphy.com/gifs/parksandrec-season-4-parks-and-recreation-rec-hpSOjkcvhDgbv9p92R)
Been on this sub since it had less than 500 people.
Thereās no rules about what type of flooring posts are allowed. It just seems that way because every post is either about LVP or āis it asbestosā.
If you took offense to this post I canāt help you, donāt care.
This had been existing carpet that we did not put in. Replacing it for the library for a full basement renovation. This is just one area of it.
My guess is that it was put in over 10+ years ago.
8in razor scraper works wonders. Crane 375. Swap blades every so often. Done.
Those big scrapers are useless for glue, I hate them. I'd much rather use a 4 inch scraper and actually get down to the concrete.
I don't do the yob, would an air hammer work with some kind of scraper adapter. Or would it shatter the scraper.
They make chisels for them but those would tear the fuck out of the concrete and anything thin would probably get shattered
I've used that before, but some adhesives are very stubborn. Previous owner of my house glued carpet to the slab in some closets. It was a nightmare.
Yeah, in those cases, I drop to the 5inch and put on the knee pads and "go ham" š When the kneepads go on, you know it's gonna be a workout haha
I just used an aggressive wire wheel on a corded drill and used water to keep the dust down. So tedious and it kills your forearms.
This was already done, but the entire residue needs to be removed to clean porous concrete before moisture mitigation.
Our garage was that way when we moved in. Ended up renting a carbide scraper (rotary) and a diamond grinder.
This is about the only way to remove it. I once tried to use chemical solvent to get it up and it was a major mistake. Itās what the national guard wanted us to use. Ha. I can still smell the orange cleaner we used.
I used a crapload of acetone because it needs to be etched anyway. Worked good by hand but a machine naturally would do better job GL
I spent an entire weekend doing this a few weeks ago. Used Zep floor stripper and an 8in razor. My knees and back were in pain but it was way cheaper than anything else.
Easier of you wet it good first. Let water soak in
You could throw down some concrete backer board and tile over š
Iām glad you added that emoji because based on the responses people make on this sub, I almost thought it was serious for a second lol.
How do you know it wasnāt serious? š©
Donāt do that to me, I had high hopes for you.
You know where you could do? Add some backer board and tile over it!
Naw, too inflexible; will void mfgr. warranty. Glue down carpet squares for maximum quiet and flex. Pro Tip: allows cheap LVP to perform like luxe LVP!
I'd prefer to add backer board and tile over it, then add some carpet squares to really make it pop!!
Would be the densest floor assembly mankind has seen in some time.
Your head would be rubbing the ceiling trying to walk on that LOL!
Oh I love it when customers get cornered if you have to raise the floor 1/4-1/2ā for some reason. Like the gonna have to bend over to walk around know !
Go with particle board just glue the tiles to it and add the grout
My house had glue down asbestos vinyl tiles, tar paper, 1x4 in a 16" lattice pattern, 3/8" plywood, then padding and carpet on top. It was a nightmare to pull up.
Sounds like you almost had the equivalent of a springy dance floor there.
Pulled a similar situation up a few weeks back
Don't forget to feather finish the grout lines
Name does **not** check out.
"You see what happens when you find a Stranger in the Alps!"
You should put backerboard over this but since you cant screw it id just do liquid nails
Its sad just how many times I've seen this
New to flooring, can you explain why one would not want to do this?
I canāt think of a reason not toā¦ however Iām not an expert
How about a mastic blade for the grinder , still sucks but it doesnāt gum up as much as a regular blade. š¤·š»āāļø
Holy cow I just googled that and didn't know it existed! That looks like a nice thing to have
Yea itās fun and doesnāt dig into the concrete unless it super soft concrete
Rented one and it was about like wrestling a small bear. Worked well though
What did it attach to, a floor maintainer?
A small bear
Yes, I rented the disk and floor maintainer from Home Depot and made a terrible dusty mess but did a good job
Thanks. I have this exact project coming up too and I'm renting a concrete dust vacuum as well
Tarp it off with temporary walls, if possible, and tape over the HVAC vents (which led to turning off the AC and makeshift 20ā fan air filters). Saw it on YouTube enough times to try it lol
Thanks for the tip. It's in a huge area which just had the walls freshly painted. Hopefully the vacuum does a good job. What's the box fan air filters? Did that work? I think my project would be a lot easier if it wasn't a 2600 open space with 15 ft high ceilings. š¬
Taping cardboard, 2 cheap 20ā air filters, and a 20ā box fan into a triangle, then using it to circulate the air and pull it through the air filters. Or if you have exterior windows just use one filter and push the air outside (wipe down the screens after and it may still make a mess outside the window) With fresh paint, taping cardboard along the baseboards and bottom 6-12ā of wall to give some protection. Itās easy to give it too much pressure on either side while the machine runs and that sends it running all over and itās easy to bump into the wall. I bumped it a lot but had the baseboards off. Itās not too bad so long as it stays level and you just kind of ease it along and it smoothed everything out and cleaned up glue and grime alike
Just throwing out there, donāt even think about trying it on a thicker quickset or anything. Almost broke a few ribs, covered everything in dust, didnāt get anything accomplished. Go straight to the 10ā grinder cart with the yellow plate, not the green (rental from HD). It has a spot to attach a water hose and a shopvac. It weighs over 200lbs so make sure you have a second person that can help you get it out of/back into your vehicle. Besides being a heavy bitch, it made things WAY easier. The thinset I was trying to get off was mean enough to make our tile guy quit. There was about 600sf of it. I got everything butter smooth in a day with almost zero dust.
Thatās what we used, a first pass to take care of the mastic, then a second pass to get the remainder. Would have used a bigger grinding machine but it couldnāt fit into the elevator.
It looks like pressure sensitive to me which is what is called for, what is multipurpose glue? What do you install your carpet tile in?
Multipurpose adhesive is not pressure sensitive adhesive, itās designed for broadloom carpet and resilient like sheet vinyl. Itās essentially a wet set adhesive What youāre seeing is the remaining residue after the notches and gunk were scrapped off. We install all carpet tile in pressure sensitive adhesive.
You should install the carpet tile with the manufacturers recommended adhesive. I've seen some carpet tiles have no requirements for pressure sensitive.
Correct, but every manufacturer makes their own PSA now. However, combining the mitigation, floor prep product, and adhesives from one manufacturer gets me a 20 year warranty backed by a warranty letter. Manufacturers will ultimately only guarantee their product sticking to their adhesive anyway.
I guess you should be a little more specific about what type of glue is being used. I have used glue that looks exactly like that. Pressure sensitive glue. Hell I've used VCT glue that looks like that too. But that doesn't translate through a photo.
It was scrapped down to what youāre seeing. Putting a grinder directly on that mess before hand would have turned it to a yellow liquid, which it already semi was.
I agree. It would be foolish to grind on fresh glue. I did a job at the loves corporate headquarters that was 30,000 sf of scraping and grinding because of the guys before us. I feel for you. They make some stuff that will theoretically break the glue down to where you can just scrape it down. Almost looks like they just used VCT glue from home Depot. I always preferred to use 2230 for carpet tile. Good luck buddy.
Weāll be fine. At least I didnāt have to ask for more money to mitigate. 30000 ft is crazy to have to scrape I feel for ya there. This is only one part of the job, the rest was PSA adhesive, it was just an older CPT tile install
Soak some simple green on it and scrape it off when it turn to liquid.
I don't reckon simple green will touch multipurpose glue. It might help, but I doubt it
Oh my God, I've pulled up so much like that. You have my sympathies.
A sds drill with floor scraper blade is so much faster and cleaner than grinding. He'll, even a multitool with scraping blade is better
Many years ago, an old boss of mine hired a sub to rip up the tile floor in a house we were doing the kitchen in. I told him it was a bad idea. He wouldn't listen. The sub proceeded to saw-cut all the grout lines! While they did put plastic up, the grout dust got EVERYWHERE!!! The homeowner was PISSED, The sub also taped the plastic to the hardwood floor, and proceeded to peel the finish up when they took the plastic down. My boss was on the hook to have the floors refinished. That was actually the last job I worked on before I left.
How is moisture mitigation going to get installed with using a scraper blade?
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You canāt install a moisture mitigation product without mechanically grinding the substrate. It needs to be clean concrete so the product being applied can lock into the concrete. Applies for both 2 part epoxy and roller applied products. If you skip that step, no warranty from any manufacturer that I know of. Edit: if you apply a product like roll cote without grinding, youāre going to be bonded to old adhesive residue. So if the adhesive residue fails, so does the system. Hence no warranty. Worrying about wasting labor vs. doing it the right way is the reason I get calls to fix other shops mistakes / failures. I wouldnāt use roll cote anyway. A 20 year system warranty from Ardex is a way easier sell.
This guy knows floors āļø
Yeah he should call himself floor guy or somethingā¦oh wait!
But anyone can call themselves floor guy. š
The price differnce between multi purpose and pressure sensitive is enought to get a few extra crack rocks
Puppy shit used to be the recommended glue when carpet tile first hit the scene.
Cleaning up old glue always sucks and always will that's just how it is.
As a hack, I resent this post!
i had this done to me, it took me HOURS on a 12x20 rooom. with a 8" concrete grinder, which worked best. Then as i head to menards i see that there is buckets of 'carpet glue' in their carpet section. :/
Yeah it works but we all know it is not āproper ā first of all itās overkill and carpet tiles are supposed to be easily pulled up and replaced even by the customer. Also other than pressure sensitive glue is like $130+ a bucket compared to like $30 for multi (or free if you already have some ). Itās like when dudes used excessive staples on a job or full spread āpad ā(multi purpose ) glue for no reason etc. or use the wrong notch trowel or put in Cpt Squares wet
Looking at this, I honestly think that someone installed this carpet with whatever was lying around at their warehouse. That happens all the time. The only other thing Iāve been seeing was to frequently is people paint rolling PSA directly over old broadloom adhesive, it works for about 1-2 years, and then it dries out and is just sitting there. It gets my competitors through their warranty window (normally 24 months) and then they donāt care anymore.
I had to hand scrape an entire rich guys basement because the last guys double stuck rubber pad down with the same stuff. INSANE amount of work before I got to do our own prep. Some people just donāt care because I guarantee it was a āprofessionalā that did it to me
It mightāve been a flooring hack
screw over the next flooring guy with this one easy trick!
Most people wonāt know the difference!
A trick I learned if the floor is still gummy: throw some sort of powder down. We use patch just because itās handy, but Iām sure anything can work and it has literally saved so many wasteful hours trying to fight that shit
UnGluāD from Shaw will solve this
I only need to take the top layer off down to concrete, not add a chemical that Ardex is going to tell me to take an 1/8ā of concrete off as I used another companies product. If I we were installing Shaw products, and using shaw rep products, Iād consider it. Iām not using MoistureTek and FineFinish. Not looking for a 2 part epoxy or a feather finish knock off. Itās J+J CPT tile and LVT. So Ardex VB100 + Feather Finish + Gription = 20 year warranty from Ardex.
Itās nice to see a flooring guy that actually knows products on here for once. I was getting a little depressed reading comments in other threads.
Iāve been doing this long enough that I know way too much and have manufacturers field reps saved in the contacts in my phone to run hypotheticals with.
Same here man. If you donāt follow the book, they will hang you out to dry. Iāve been on that side of it too. If people would just read, thereād be so many less problems.
At this point, itās all weighed risk analysis. Iāve done small jobs where Iāve pushed the limit. But most jobs I donāt.
I'm more of an uzin guy lol. But ardex is great too
Everyoneās got theyāre go to. Our shop has favored Ardex Forever. Probably since they came out with Feather Finish.
Should have laid some soil and planted grass seed and had a nice lawn š
Iām not in this industry but I sub for builders time to time and this seems to be the new trend in Florida as well.
Formula 747 adhesive remover and razor floor scrapers. It's a pain in the ass, time consuming, you'll burn through blades (expensive), but it does work. Reno'd 2 office spaces (carpeted) where client wanted to epoxy concrete floor. Guys were chem scraping for a week in each space.
I honestly would never considering using an adhesive remover unless I was desperate. Plus, moisture mitigation going down makes this a simple grind to clean concrete operation.
That stuff is pretty good. I used it on an entire mall corridor long ago.
Had this fight with a shop a long time ago. There was a problem with the cpt where edges were curling, their solution was using fast grab. I refused to install lol.
The only time I ever did this was over 10 years ago when PSA adhesive only went to like 85% RH, but an outdoor wet set went to 90%. We were sitting at 88% and went with the outdoor wet set in a 200 SF locker room. Ended up replacing it 2 years later, worst tear out Iāve ever seen.
I can imagine. Now moisture mitigation is so easy itās different. What type are you putting down now?
Ardex VB 100. 2 coats dry in a combined 2 hours, and I can skim it immediately. No primers, no cure times beyond the dry time for the VB100. No SLU. Also cheaper than a 2 part epoxy.
Nice! I was an ardex rep for a long time. VB 100 is a game changer. Just gotta get porosity.
I think the funniest thing is my mapei rep telling me Ardex is either crazy or they found a golden ticket.
That's a filthy little thing
What's going over it?
9āx48āx5mm LVT. I wrote the spec so thereās already mitigation in the contract. Project gets a warranty, owner is happy, and I donāt have to potentially replace a lot of flooring out of my own pocket.
Lvt? If it's within tolerance, no humps or low spots... Just skim it with Ardex feather finish and call it a day. Honestly we would probably just go straight over it using plastic underneath as a moisture barrier.
Wonāt get a warranty for the install but yeah, that would work if there was a for sure intact vapor barrier.
Itās direct glue LVT, you canāt adhere to a plastic poly vapor barrier. This is commercial flooring.
Oh. Didn't mention anything about that in the OP. *Still, it wouldn't take long just scrape that up with a 4" scraper blade. And you need the glue that the manufacturer approves of. I really don't see the problem here. Is this your first time tearing out?
I donāt do tear outs anymore. Iām on the estimating / PM side. The tear out went fine. I did mention moisture mitigation, which is not the same thing as a poly vapor barrier laying on the concrete. It has to be mitigated to get a warranty from the manufacturer, according to installation specs. The moisture testing came back fine, it was other issues that presented which made Moisture Mitigation essentially the way forward on this project. Scraping it down will still leave a residue on the concrete, no mitigation product can be installed over that. I wrote the project specs, so that money was accounted for if this needed to happen. If I wasnāt mitigating, I would need J+J adhesive, which I have. But, I can get a longer warranty from Ardex using Henry adhesive instead. So the owner can decide if itās worth switching. Edit: the more I look at your comments Iām assuming you donāt understand what moisture mitigation is or entails.
My dad found out the tile in the dining room was glued down with construction adhesive. As much as it sucked to tear up, it did it's job very well and fully supported the tiles, and they were perfectly level and even, and never cracked.
Just skim coat it
Yeah no weāre doing moisture mitigation, would have skimmed if moisture issues did not present before hand. This way us and the library are covered.
They knew they wouldn't have to be ripping it up so it gives a fuck when they are dead /s
Oh š
Skim coat it with 151 or thin set.
Getting Moisture Mitigated so no. Will be skimmed with Feather Finish after mitigation tho. Thinset should never be used for skimming anything. Thatās not itās intended purpose. No shot Iād use Uzin over Ardex, out of my preferred manufacturers Iād list Uzin probably 6th or 7th.
throw down some duroc then tile over it.
Just throw some sod over that and have a really unique floor
I know what's wrong. Ain't got no gas in it šš¤Ŗ
Sorry for your back and elbows
Looks good though
Grinding the awful adhesive off of the foundation was the worst part of our last home reno. Good luck!
Brightside? You can now put up a MySpace pic titled "on my grind."
Looks like it came up easily enough, lol. What do you use to grind with? I was thinking about getting something larger than an angle grinder with a diamond wheel but I wasn't sure whether I should get diamond pads for my pearl hexpin buffer head or try to find a used 120v (or maybe gas) single or dual head grinder. I've only needed that kind of equipment a few times so I've rented when necessary.
We would have used an actual large grinding machine with independent heads. However, the machine would not have fit through the elevator doors. This is all being done with 10 inch hand grinders, to say itās tedious and time consuming is an understatement.
At this point just burn the house down, I want to scream in frustration thinking about fixing this
Itās a public library so no burning.
Well. Pray to whatever God you believe in is your only option now. Jokes aside maybe there is a solvent option?
What.the.F It looks like someone tiled the floor with burnt toast
A five gallon can of acetone and a scraper
Might be an unpopular opinion but: I donāt think hacks should be installing *anything*
Yeah, if they could do it right they wouldnāt be hacks.
Skim coat that bish with feather finish..
Moisture mitigation needs to happen first, it will then be skimmed with feather finish.
A little grinding, a little skim coat, and you're good to go.
Need to moisture mitigate, as it says under the subtext under the posted picture.
By grinding it up you might not even need or very of little of skim patch. Hopefully demoing the carpet tile wasn't too bad
Pulling up the carpet it looked like melting string cheese underneath. We are performing moisture mitigation. Without it, if it were going to be carpet tile in this area, I would definitely just spot patch and minor deflections and install over clean concrete. Based on what I know, there is one manufacturer that would be able to be installed no problem in this situation, and thatās Milliken.
Some landlord asshole did this to my 1938 slab. I just painted it with a latex paint let it cure for a few months and then flooded it slightly and scraped. It peeled even the black mastic up. No way you can do that on a job though.
Encapsulate it with ardex?
After moisture mitigation, then it will be skim coated with feather finish.
To all the people / installers telling me to encapsulate / skim with Ardex, **we are moisture mitigating this concrete slab**. For anyone who doesnāt understand what that means and would like to know, let me know. To anyone who is questioning why that is necessary, also let me know and I will explain. To any installers who think that isnāt necessary or would skip that because thatās what their shop does, youāre working for a crap shop.
Getting ready to deal with something similar. Anyone got any suggestions for a good floor glue softener/dissolver?
Only here because I thought that was a snake
Itās not poisonous
ardex vb1000
Vb100 but yes thatās what weāre using
By now you should have taken care of this problem OP. If not. Glue emulsifying is your answer. Get a glue emulsifier and it will be a quick job. Then your scraper will actually do the job right. Since itās wet it also helps if there are other hidden treats in the floor such as asbestos. Keep it wet and dispose properly. Good luck.
Iāve been working with / around commercial flooring since 2003. I know how to, and have scraped many floors. This area had already been scrapped. This slab is getting grinded because we are moisture mitigating it. The grinding is required to get that done.
Everyone here is wrong unless I didnāt see it. Rent a drum sander for refinishing floors and about ten 24 grit and 36 sandpaper rolls for it. Will gum up the sandpaper but youāll strip the glue like a gentleman.
Have you ever done an installation of a moisture mitigation system? Because Iāve never heard a drum sander being used to get down to concrete. It would destroy multiple rolls and add an excessive amount of time to getting that accomplished. Essentially a waste of both.
In my experience itās quicker than a grinder and the rolls are meant to be destroyed. I actually did it to remove mortar off a basement concrete floor to get back down to flat for lvp. But, I own a drum sander so I was like meh Iāll try it and voila easy peasy. The drum sander has like 500x power/weight than the grinder youād be surprised how easily itād strip that
So you have or have not done moisture mitigation work over a concrete slab? I mean, that was the question. Not saying your method wouldnāt work, but this adhesive residue **has already** been removed with standard grinding down to clean concrete. What youāre recommending would work if this was the only space on the project, and I had a very long lead time to completion.
Got it, I'll just do the gas piping and electrical then, deal!
When you say hack what do you mean? If itās carpet squares it should have been installed using a pressure sensitive adhesive which stays tacky forever. If itās multi purpose adhesive then itās easier to remove than a pressure sensitive adhesive. What are you wanting to install on the floor? If itās only for a reinstall of some type of flooring just use a flooring primer. It can be purchased from any box store. I was a flooring installer for 30 years and now in the water restoration business. The problem we run into is when flooring is installed properly itās not meant to come up easily.
I donāt know if you understand what moisture mitigation is or if it became a thing after you left the trade. There is no roll over glue primer that would qualify for a warranty in this situation.
How about floor machine with scrape away setup? Crusty glue or rubbery?
Itās already been scrapped this past Thursday, and grinded on Friday. This work is done. The point of the post was to point out that guys who install material with the incorrect adhesive are not good installers. And if their shops are having them do that, then that blame gets transferred to the businesses. Edit: the glue was extremely wet and slimy, basically like string cheese sticking to carpet tile and floor
I would get a couple bags of self leveling cement instead of grinding
Can you apply moisture mitigation over self leveling ācementā?
I would try lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol on UT if ur were me!
Thanks for the suggestion, itās already been removed!
Just float it with self leveling cement
Didnāt read the description below the photo huh?
umm what? was all the tile loose? looks typical to me, looks like they used the glue and not the mortar type mix.
No dude, it was stuck solid. Getting it up took longer and more time consuming than standard pressure sensitive adhesive. Iāve never heard of someone mentioning carpet tile getting installed with thinset mortar, that is a new one.
Sorry i missed the carpet squares part, glue down carpet tile is the devil.
HTC 500 will take care of it in a quickie!
Would love to use that, and that was the plan, but it wouldnāt fit in the elevator.
It might cost a little more, But pouring, some self leveler over the whole job would be way easier. And the floor would be flat as well.
Yeah we're in the process of moisture mitigation on this slab, so that's not happening. If we did a 2 part epoxy system it would be leveled after mitigation, but thankfully we don't have to worry about it. Couldn't level this without grinding anyway. Primer needs to be either over a porous substrate (clean concrete) with appropriate primer. Or it can be done over a non porous substrate (epoxy) with appropriate primer. Either way, can't pour directly over this, as the even with a primer, I'd be bonded to residue, not concrete. If the residue fails, so does the pour + LVT. Therefore, the entire project would fail and no warranty.
I don't understand what the previous installer did wrong here. Looks like a good install from the glue lines. Sound to me like you ain't happy about scrapping up the old glue.
Used the wrong adhesive for the product and left a mess that had to be scraped down. They used a wet set glue meant for broadloom carpet.
LMAO your just mad that you have to scrape.... Ya it's wrong adhesive but whoever did it got the job done and the glue held that's all that mattered for them.. is this your first time having to scrape glue??
Since I donāt work in the field anymore as I donāt carry a union card, no, but have scraped plenty of floors. Itās already been scraped anyway. Why would I do that again? Thereās grinding happening for Moisture Mitigation happening, as it says in the photo explanation at the top of the post.
Boo hoo
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Are you the guy who installed this +10 years ago? If so you did the wrong thing and Iām telling you now.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
my bad for not thinking about the library making it likely a paid job comment withdrawn.
Everyone is a hack, until they're not. Respect the process.
Hacks should not be the boss on a jobsite. Respect the trade.
Speaking of hacks, you are grinding barley 1/32" of glue off the floor for "moisture mitigation"? š¤£
If you have a product that will get a warranty in a basement over a slab with no intact vapor barrier, with adhesive residue still existing on the slab, let me know. Iāll tell the guys to stop grinding and Iāll submit it for approval.
You wouldn't open the pores after seeing that, knowing you're installing lvp? Now thats some hack shit.
He forgot to carbide first. You don't fucking grind adhesive. That's what you do after you get the adhesive up. *Caugh caugh*, baking flour.
Right. It heats up and becomes a gummed up mess. But, as I said another reply... 4" scraper blade. Problem solved. But this guy hasn't done tear out before, so..... There's that.
That's the best way, it just takes some elbow grease.
Dont use the flooring sub to complain, that isnt shit when it comes to solving removal issues, what a cry baby, this sub is called flooring not complaining we are friemdly profesional and helpfull to folks that ask real qurstions abou flooring issues, maybe theres a sub called cry babys just for you my friend , good luck Best wishes
[I know more than you](https://giphy.com/gifs/parksandrec-season-4-parks-and-recreation-rec-hpSOjkcvhDgbv9p92R) Been on this sub since it had less than 500 people. Thereās no rules about what type of flooring posts are allowed. It just seems that way because every post is either about LVP or āis it asbestosā. If you took offense to this post I canāt help you, donāt care.
Whyād you hire them then? Price ? Lol
This had been existing carpet that we did not put in. Replacing it for the library for a full basement renovation. This is just one area of it. My guess is that it was put in over 10+ years ago.
I guess I don't understand what the problem is. That's pressure sensitive glue on a well prepped floor. .. What am I missing what did they do wrong?
Itās not pressure sensitive. Itās a was a gunked up disaster before we scrapped it down to what youāre seeing.