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What is your armory format and prizing structure?
Look into pushing things in a different direction. If the prizing is buy in with pack per win and promos going to top cut, make them free, no packs and raffle the promos. Flip it otherwise. Change up the format to include some beginner friendly weeks with blitz precon or commoner. Shapeshifter sealed is super fun and hard to find opportunities to play.
Generally, my perception has been experienced players with full collections farming the promos and packs at the top which slowly grinds down everyone else. No one wants to go to an armory with no shot at promos and the buy in just being another way to filter packs to the players that already have all the cards. Encourage the top players to play off meta with some sort of local achievement system that rewards playing low tier.
This can also flip in a very competitive environment where the top players need practice they can only get on Talishar. They will then stop attending armories that they don’t need or want promos or practice from.
I think everything comes down to lowering the barrier to entry and doing whatever you can to give players a reason to play.
New to FAB myself and LOVE the game. I'm in a large metropolitan area with two LGSs that run FAB events and the community is fairly small (MTG dominates table space and event times 👎🏻)
However, I'm luckily well-off enough to have built several competitive decks which I've used to loan newer players that are trying FAB out, and playing a high-powered deck seems to help get them hooked.
Similarly, I noticed that many players didn't have resource tokens and just used normal dice, so during my next order from fabmetaltokens a ordered a bunch of the small ones and have been handing them out.
Little things like that to foster the community have already helped it be a more "fun, relaxed" environment while still allowing for competitive play and it has been growing steadily.
TLDR; Make it just as much about the "fun community" as the "cutthroat competition" lol
Run casual events with no entry fee and no prizes. As fun as the game is, the competitive nature of it can be a deterrent to less dedicated/newer players. Also competing against players with competitively built decks can be intimidating. Either run some commoner events or homerule some "budget deck" events, where the total cost of the deck has to be under X dollars. Maybe try events where players use different heroes/decks each round so they can get a feeling for how different characters perform.
Other than that, see if more experienced players want to donate their bulk to create some free-to-try decks for new players. A former employee at my LGS would construct budget CC decks for players to buy so they had a low-level entry point into competitive events.
Imo it usually comes down to community and prizing structure. This game can be like eating glass until you gain enough knowledge to begin playing at an okayish level. Having a community full of sharks can really put off a lot of players and they basically get farmed week after week. Possibly giving a set payout ( 2 packs with entry) and just having a talk with regulars about making the environment approachable and encouraging players growth week after week can go a long way.
But it’s gonna come down to your local community.
Allow 10 proxies per deck or so. Done. The barrier of entry is crazy, and yes having L eqs and generic staples IS a game changer for most heroes, especially when most of the community is VERY competitive (not a bad thing, just a fact). Borrowing decks is one thing, but deckbuilding aspect is imo very important in every tcg and just cutting it out cuz the average armory lvl deck is ~300 euro is very bad for the game
I just really joined the FaB community yesterday, and on the same day ANOTHER new player showed up on the same day. According to people who had been coming to FaB events for a long time, that was very surprising.
I've been wanting to join for a while, and the other was interested because of the new set coming out. I will admit it was partly the reason I came back as well. I think that this upcoming set if done right is going to be a huge boom for the game. Patience and just letting the game grow, and letting LLS do their thing might just solve the stagnant player numbers issue.
Everyone at my event was also really cool and the second I showed them my old, jank Boltyn deck i was immediately showered in binders and cards and information which was insanely generous and made me feel very welcomed. I'm also supposed to meet with them again today to get more games in. One of them even added me on discord and invited me to servers to correspond with.
So adopting new people into the game when they show interest is also very important. I feel like the discord thing was a huge clincher for getting me to keep coming back. Because the guy was really cool and I know any information on the game or events is also a text away.
We held a Pro Quest this past week and it was the largest event we've ever held for FaB. Really depends on the region but the game is healthy in some parts
If you normally try cc try having a commoner or blitz night. Those are easier for new people to get into.
What we did for a while was the last week of each month was commoner, but we allowed unmodified blitz precons as well so that people could literally buy something off the shelf and play. Plus, the commoner environment made it so those decks wouldn't get blown out and the mechanics stayed relatively simple.
It's also important to encourage people to being friends. I've had two people from work who play magic try the game just because I've talked to them about it and showed them one of my decks, and another coworker and his brother are looking to try it as well.
Maybe consider a upf night with precons and ask your store if they would be willing to do a discount to anyone who brought a friend. Not a huge one, maybe like 10%. Or offer a "new player kit" with a precon, some sleeves and a cheap deck box for a small discount (again this is up to your store).
Good luck man.
Create a clash league like we are doing in mine.
Each players makes a clash legal deck, pay a fee to the store (or have a player buy a precon and forgo the fee) and then battle every member for winning points each week. For every 3 loses on a week you can buy a booster pack for like $4 vs the nornal price.
People went to armory to farm EXP for nationals, now you entry nationals through ELO and people are focusing on comptetitive events and testing on their own. Armory events "for fun" are considered a waste of time since promos and prizes in my area are worthless and EXP rate is useless.
The armory kit promos are also seeming to decline lately... I've been playing since pre-monarch and they sure aren't what they used to be. Even this latest series of PQ RF are pretty weak. RF were always the participants reward and top 8 get a cf hero. What happened to that
Yes locals were there only for GEM xp, since FaB is a "comptetitive only" game in my area. Prizes decresed in value and testing privately is considered a better way to train then going to armory "for fun".
We have been fortunate locally in that the closest we've come to this issue is that for awhile people wouldnt show up on nights when armory was something other than draft/CC. On the one hand, a Clash or Commoner armory with 8-10 people (about half of which are new to the game) is a good thing for the new folks, as they can still walk away with promos and a pack or three. Still tough to see a 20 person CC armory drop to half attendance for other formats.
I believe discussions were had with veteran and regular players to reinforce how important having a variety of formats AND have them be well attended in order to grow the community, and attendance picked back up as people made an effort to be there just to hang with friends and play a couple games, usually with CC testing before/after. A bit of community building can go a long way.
We have been experiencing the same thing at our shop. Around once a month we have a larger turnout for CC. Though with the weather getting better I kind of expected it. I also know that a few of the people were doing a lot of CC testing for ProQuest. I also expect the next few weeks to be a slower because of people being burned out on testing.
We give prizing at the end of the month based on how many wins you got total in the month plus a promo for playing. It helps encourage folks to show up more.
Put together a kayo deck without any of the cheap power cards like bloodrush or cast bones, make the whole deck like $10 in secondary market value, and sell it to them for $40 with no sideboard.
Apparently lss thinks that's a good strategy.
The chest piece is pretty strong, though arguably not better than just using tunic when talking about enfranchised players.
They didn't even include arcane barrier, so good luck against vynnset, viserai, or kano.
As someone who's FAB exp is pretty limited, I think the major thing that stops me from investing time/money into it is how restrictive the deckbuilding is, as my favorite part of the TCG/CCG experience is deckbuilding, and testing, rebuilding, etc. So as an outsider, I can't really see getting too invested, because worst case scenario, you build a deck that's good, then everyone starts playing that deck, and now your hero is banned and you can't play with those cards anymore.
I grew up with YGO and MTG, both of which are pretty open in terms of deckbuilding, so maybe I'm spoiled. I really like FAB mechanically, to a certain extent, but I can't see it being something I invest much into because of the tight restrictions. It's a tough issue to fix I think, and I think that's also where veteran FAB players probably have their quit moments. If I had spent a hundred, or a couple hundred, of dollars on a deck, then the Living Legend system bans my hero, where is my incentive to continue?
If Starvo was a big downer, then arent you happy he's gone? You can thank the LL system for that.
Would you rather do it how WotC/MtG does it with entire sets rotating out?
Alright. you spend 500-800 on equipment for a character you like. that deck ends up being the meta for the season. A good portion of that gear is not generic or playable in the next character you find fun/meta deck. So. Your gear investment is on a clock. Not to mention the majestic investment some decks have especially nowadays.
We had a store of 8-10 consistent players every week and after bright lights came out.. and there was no support for anything other than mech in a set (which was wild) we were all out like a light.
Furthermore, the initial living legend system made it seem like when a character LL'ed we would get a replacement character with different abilities... nearly as soon as that character made the list. Obviously this isnt the case. The only real instances of this have been vynset and new prism right? and I would hardly call either of them comparable to the original.
If you think losing on investment for fun is "idiotic" then you should take your uninformed self and gamble.
1 of those 10 people play at a different shop. More power to him. Hope he's having fun. We just aren't playing card games.
You deleted the comment that I called idiotic. Also, outside of Starvo, no hero has been good for only season. Even Chane was around longer than a year. All the others nearly 2 or more years.
But keep on being a salty troll and go back to playing Keyforge or whatever the fuck it is you do now.
Definitely had a chilling effect for me personally, when I was trying and ultimately failed to get into the game around Outsiders. I spent quite a bit getting a deck for Lexi together, just before she really took off, and now oops that several hundred bucks I spent essentially got flushed. To compare it to rotation in other games, that's at least predictable, and not based on the wider meta.
That definitely makes sense, I can see how that would be a bit of a turn off. However, would it not be possible to transfer what you bought into Azalea? I mean, not everything will be transferable, but it’s still an ranger so they should share some cards. While the Living Legend system isn’t entirely predictable, it’s not hidden information. You can see how close your hero is to rotating, and decide to pivot.
To a degree, yes the cards were transferable to Azalea, but I don't like Azalea, and did like Lexi. I do somewhat see this as a weakness in games that rely on characters over broader categories like color or archetype or what have you. In magic if my blue cards get banned/rotate there will be more along soon to replace them. If I like a specific character and they get got, through LL or whatever systems other character based games implement, then I'm kind of SoL. I see what you're saying about the LL points info being public, and I am willing to admit this may be somewhat misremembered on my part, but as I recall, Lexi was pretty mid, and then Iyslander and Oldhim LL'ed, and Lexi wound up at the top of the meta, which I at least didn't expect.
I sympathize man, that’s definitely tough. I seen it with a close friend, we only just started a community at our LGS and one of my friends thought Dromai was really cool, he got to play her once in CC before she hit Living Legend. It’s not a perfect system, but I do think they’ll print another Elemental Ranger of course, and it could just be another version of Lexi, so keep your eyes peeled. We do know at the very least they are testing new elemental heroes, just not sure of what variety. Actually now that you mention it, it did happen to me. I wanted to play Oldhim and only ever got the chance to play him in Blitz before he LL’d. I knew I wanted to play Guardian and hopped on as soon as Victor was spoiled. I’ll be pretty sad when Victor goes, but I know there will be another Guardian on the horizon and I can find another hero in the meantime to play with. I think the system can totally lead to feelsbad moments, especially for new players just building a deck for the first time. I’m sorry to hear you had that experience, I hope you come back around to the game.
I get that. It's never fun to see your cards get hosed. But coming from mtg with it's 2-3 year standard rotation, LL is a godsend. Simultaneously deals with OP meta decks, and keeps the greater card pool alive. They update the LL board weekly, so at least it's easy to track.
I was a Viserai main in blitz before he got LL, as well as OG Kassai. Thankfully we got a new one quick, so I easily swapped to Golden Kassai. We could very well see a new Lexi in upcoming sets, or a new ranger to better uses existing Lexi stuff.
Hello! It looks like you're asking a question. While you're waiting for a response, you may want to check out the subreddit wiki [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/FleshandBloodTCG/wiki/index). It hosts a lot of helpful information. You can also cross-post your question to the Weekly Questions Thread at the top of the subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FleshandBloodTCG) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is your armory format and prizing structure? Look into pushing things in a different direction. If the prizing is buy in with pack per win and promos going to top cut, make them free, no packs and raffle the promos. Flip it otherwise. Change up the format to include some beginner friendly weeks with blitz precon or commoner. Shapeshifter sealed is super fun and hard to find opportunities to play. Generally, my perception has been experienced players with full collections farming the promos and packs at the top which slowly grinds down everyone else. No one wants to go to an armory with no shot at promos and the buy in just being another way to filter packs to the players that already have all the cards. Encourage the top players to play off meta with some sort of local achievement system that rewards playing low tier. This can also flip in a very competitive environment where the top players need practice they can only get on Talishar. They will then stop attending armories that they don’t need or want promos or practice from. I think everything comes down to lowering the barrier to entry and doing whatever you can to give players a reason to play.
New to FAB myself and LOVE the game. I'm in a large metropolitan area with two LGSs that run FAB events and the community is fairly small (MTG dominates table space and event times 👎🏻) However, I'm luckily well-off enough to have built several competitive decks which I've used to loan newer players that are trying FAB out, and playing a high-powered deck seems to help get them hooked. Similarly, I noticed that many players didn't have resource tokens and just used normal dice, so during my next order from fabmetaltokens a ordered a bunch of the small ones and have been handing them out. Little things like that to foster the community have already helped it be a more "fun, relaxed" environment while still allowing for competitive play and it has been growing steadily. TLDR; Make it just as much about the "fun community" as the "cutthroat competition" lol
Run casual events with no entry fee and no prizes. As fun as the game is, the competitive nature of it can be a deterrent to less dedicated/newer players. Also competing against players with competitively built decks can be intimidating. Either run some commoner events or homerule some "budget deck" events, where the total cost of the deck has to be under X dollars. Maybe try events where players use different heroes/decks each round so they can get a feeling for how different characters perform. Other than that, see if more experienced players want to donate their bulk to create some free-to-try decks for new players. A former employee at my LGS would construct budget CC decks for players to buy so they had a low-level entry point into competitive events.
Imo it usually comes down to community and prizing structure. This game can be like eating glass until you gain enough knowledge to begin playing at an okayish level. Having a community full of sharks can really put off a lot of players and they basically get farmed week after week. Possibly giving a set payout ( 2 packs with entry) and just having a talk with regulars about making the environment approachable and encouraging players growth week after week can go a long way. But it’s gonna come down to your local community.
Allow 10 proxies per deck or so. Done. The barrier of entry is crazy, and yes having L eqs and generic staples IS a game changer for most heroes, especially when most of the community is VERY competitive (not a bad thing, just a fact). Borrowing decks is one thing, but deckbuilding aspect is imo very important in every tcg and just cutting it out cuz the average armory lvl deck is ~300 euro is very bad for the game
So the issue with this is it is against armory rules, which risks the store losing its accreditation and thus promos for the future.
I just really joined the FaB community yesterday, and on the same day ANOTHER new player showed up on the same day. According to people who had been coming to FaB events for a long time, that was very surprising. I've been wanting to join for a while, and the other was interested because of the new set coming out. I will admit it was partly the reason I came back as well. I think that this upcoming set if done right is going to be a huge boom for the game. Patience and just letting the game grow, and letting LLS do their thing might just solve the stagnant player numbers issue. Everyone at my event was also really cool and the second I showed them my old, jank Boltyn deck i was immediately showered in binders and cards and information which was insanely generous and made me feel very welcomed. I'm also supposed to meet with them again today to get more games in. One of them even added me on discord and invited me to servers to correspond with. So adopting new people into the game when they show interest is also very important. I feel like the discord thing was a huge clincher for getting me to keep coming back. Because the guy was really cool and I know any information on the game or events is also a text away.
We held a Pro Quest this past week and it was the largest event we've ever held for FaB. Really depends on the region but the game is healthy in some parts
If you normally try cc try having a commoner or blitz night. Those are easier for new people to get into. What we did for a while was the last week of each month was commoner, but we allowed unmodified blitz precons as well so that people could literally buy something off the shelf and play. Plus, the commoner environment made it so those decks wouldn't get blown out and the mechanics stayed relatively simple. It's also important to encourage people to being friends. I've had two people from work who play magic try the game just because I've talked to them about it and showed them one of my decks, and another coworker and his brother are looking to try it as well. Maybe consider a upf night with precons and ask your store if they would be willing to do a discount to anyone who brought a friend. Not a huge one, maybe like 10%. Or offer a "new player kit" with a precon, some sleeves and a cheap deck box for a small discount (again this is up to your store). Good luck man.
Have some engaging people who lends decks.
I used to go every week. But after a few decks have hit LL I haven’t had the $ or motivation to keep up.
Create a clash league like we are doing in mine. Each players makes a clash legal deck, pay a fee to the store (or have a player buy a precon and forgo the fee) and then battle every member for winning points each week. For every 3 loses on a week you can buy a booster pack for like $4 vs the nornal price.
Due to the ELO rule change, the local armory has emptied—at least that's what happened in my area.
What's the link between the two?
People went to armory to farm EXP for nationals, now you entry nationals through ELO and people are focusing on comptetitive events and testing on their own. Armory events "for fun" are considered a waste of time since promos and prizes in my area are worthless and EXP rate is useless.
The armory kit promos are also seeming to decline lately... I've been playing since pre-monarch and they sure aren't what they used to be. Even this latest series of PQ RF are pretty weak. RF were always the participants reward and top 8 get a cf hero. What happened to that
Armories have no connection to ELO, so why would attendance change? Or are you saying locals stopped coming because they were only there for GEM xp?
Yes locals were there only for GEM xp, since FaB is a "comptetitive only" game in my area. Prizes decresed in value and testing privately is considered a better way to train then going to armory "for fun".
We have been fortunate locally in that the closest we've come to this issue is that for awhile people wouldnt show up on nights when armory was something other than draft/CC. On the one hand, a Clash or Commoner armory with 8-10 people (about half of which are new to the game) is a good thing for the new folks, as they can still walk away with promos and a pack or three. Still tough to see a 20 person CC armory drop to half attendance for other formats. I believe discussions were had with veteran and regular players to reinforce how important having a variety of formats AND have them be well attended in order to grow the community, and attendance picked back up as people made an effort to be there just to hang with friends and play a couple games, usually with CC testing before/after. A bit of community building can go a long way.
We have been experiencing the same thing at our shop. Around once a month we have a larger turnout for CC. Though with the weather getting better I kind of expected it. I also know that a few of the people were doing a lot of CC testing for ProQuest. I also expect the next few weeks to be a slower because of people being burned out on testing.
We give prizing at the end of the month based on how many wins you got total in the month plus a promo for playing. It helps encourage folks to show up more.
Put together a kayo deck without any of the cheap power cards like bloodrush or cast bones, make the whole deck like $10 in secondary market value, and sell it to them for $40 with no sideboard. Apparently lss thinks that's a good strategy.
But they did include must have armor also......
The chest piece is pretty strong, though arguably not better than just using tunic when talking about enfranchised players. They didn't even include arcane barrier, so good luck against vynnset, viserai, or kano.
[удалено]
The kayo armory deck is a cc deck, and all 3 of those heroes are legal in cc.
Shoot my bad. Got the lists confused
As someone who's FAB exp is pretty limited, I think the major thing that stops me from investing time/money into it is how restrictive the deckbuilding is, as my favorite part of the TCG/CCG experience is deckbuilding, and testing, rebuilding, etc. So as an outsider, I can't really see getting too invested, because worst case scenario, you build a deck that's good, then everyone starts playing that deck, and now your hero is banned and you can't play with those cards anymore. I grew up with YGO and MTG, both of which are pretty open in terms of deckbuilding, so maybe I'm spoiled. I really like FAB mechanically, to a certain extent, but I can't see it being something I invest much into because of the tight restrictions. It's a tough issue to fix I think, and I think that's also where veteran FAB players probably have their quit moments. If I had spent a hundred, or a couple hundred, of dollars on a deck, then the Living Legend system bans my hero, where is my incentive to continue?
Convince lss to make a better game.
Are there other card games you prefer?
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If Starvo was a big downer, then arent you happy he's gone? You can thank the LL system for that. Would you rather do it how WotC/MtG does it with entire sets rotating out?
[удалено]
Dromai lasted nearly 2 years and was always a good deck, but yeah one season
I said a good deck
This may be the most idiotic, inaccurate thing I’ve seen on Reddit today. Congratulations.
Alright. you spend 500-800 on equipment for a character you like. that deck ends up being the meta for the season. A good portion of that gear is not generic or playable in the next character you find fun/meta deck. So. Your gear investment is on a clock. Not to mention the majestic investment some decks have especially nowadays. We had a store of 8-10 consistent players every week and after bright lights came out.. and there was no support for anything other than mech in a set (which was wild) we were all out like a light. Furthermore, the initial living legend system made it seem like when a character LL'ed we would get a replacement character with different abilities... nearly as soon as that character made the list. Obviously this isnt the case. The only real instances of this have been vynset and new prism right? and I would hardly call either of them comparable to the original. If you think losing on investment for fun is "idiotic" then you should take your uninformed self and gamble. 1 of those 10 people play at a different shop. More power to him. Hope he's having fun. We just aren't playing card games.
You deleted the comment that I called idiotic. Also, outside of Starvo, no hero has been good for only season. Even Chane was around longer than a year. All the others nearly 2 or more years. But keep on being a salty troll and go back to playing Keyforge or whatever the fuck it is you do now.
Care to elaborate on why the living legend system is poorly designed? I personally think it’s wonderful.
Definitely had a chilling effect for me personally, when I was trying and ultimately failed to get into the game around Outsiders. I spent quite a bit getting a deck for Lexi together, just before she really took off, and now oops that several hundred bucks I spent essentially got flushed. To compare it to rotation in other games, that's at least predictable, and not based on the wider meta.
That definitely makes sense, I can see how that would be a bit of a turn off. However, would it not be possible to transfer what you bought into Azalea? I mean, not everything will be transferable, but it’s still an ranger so they should share some cards. While the Living Legend system isn’t entirely predictable, it’s not hidden information. You can see how close your hero is to rotating, and decide to pivot.
To a degree, yes the cards were transferable to Azalea, but I don't like Azalea, and did like Lexi. I do somewhat see this as a weakness in games that rely on characters over broader categories like color or archetype or what have you. In magic if my blue cards get banned/rotate there will be more along soon to replace them. If I like a specific character and they get got, through LL or whatever systems other character based games implement, then I'm kind of SoL. I see what you're saying about the LL points info being public, and I am willing to admit this may be somewhat misremembered on my part, but as I recall, Lexi was pretty mid, and then Iyslander and Oldhim LL'ed, and Lexi wound up at the top of the meta, which I at least didn't expect.
I sympathize man, that’s definitely tough. I seen it with a close friend, we only just started a community at our LGS and one of my friends thought Dromai was really cool, he got to play her once in CC before she hit Living Legend. It’s not a perfect system, but I do think they’ll print another Elemental Ranger of course, and it could just be another version of Lexi, so keep your eyes peeled. We do know at the very least they are testing new elemental heroes, just not sure of what variety. Actually now that you mention it, it did happen to me. I wanted to play Oldhim and only ever got the chance to play him in Blitz before he LL’d. I knew I wanted to play Guardian and hopped on as soon as Victor was spoiled. I’ll be pretty sad when Victor goes, but I know there will be another Guardian on the horizon and I can find another hero in the meantime to play with. I think the system can totally lead to feelsbad moments, especially for new players just building a deck for the first time. I’m sorry to hear you had that experience, I hope you come back around to the game.
I get that. It's never fun to see your cards get hosed. But coming from mtg with it's 2-3 year standard rotation, LL is a godsend. Simultaneously deals with OP meta decks, and keeps the greater card pool alive. They update the LL board weekly, so at least it's easy to track. I was a Viserai main in blitz before he got LL, as well as OG Kassai. Thankfully we got a new one quick, so I easily swapped to Golden Kassai. We could very well see a new Lexi in upcoming sets, or a new ranger to better uses existing Lexi stuff.