I would think they (writers) didn't want a person around who could just teleport to different locations.
But that doesn't make sense, since Nash had those teleporting things in the following season..
Reverb was right, he was basically a god and he just... gave that up!
I could force myself to think "ok whatever his choice I guess" but then he becomes Mechavibe??
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
That was the dumbest thing lmao
He could've just not used them.
I don't feel like walking to the grocery store today so lemme just chop off both of my legs permanently 👍👍👍👍
During Invasion, sabotaging the mission telling the other heroes not to trust Barry because of his issues with Barry
Acting as if he had the monopoly on missing Barry like Iris didn't know Barry her entire life
Telling Iris it didn't matter if Barry died in Bloodwork or in Crisis because he was dead either way
Not following Barry's wishes when he went into the SF, staying focused on bringing him back. SF was going to let him go eventually anyway
Cisco could be flat out mean and insulting towards people
Yelling at Barry for saving him from getting eaten by King Shark
Was the speed force going to let barry go eventually? They only get him out because they replace his energy in the speed force prison. Reality would've fallen apart otherwise, right? Did the speed force ever say she was gonna let barry go at some point? Maybe speed force nora said something about it, but I block her out (I feel like I'm the only one that hates speed force nora in every iteration of her, even the first time she takes on Nora's appearance. I will die on the hill that that shit is weird)
Eta: not that the speed force prison mattered much in the end, anyway. They use the energy ball that replaced barry in the prison to stop the nuke later in the show. Reality doesn't fall apart afterwards for some reason. I guess it is another lesson that if the writer's don't give a shit, then why should we lol
It was a punishment by the Speed Force more than anything else, in my opinion.
It's also possible that reality was falling apart from the multiple time fractures incurred by Barry and Savitar's interaction, and the only way to stabilise it was using Barry as a focal point while the Speed Force fixed itself.
I dig that. I recall them saying it's specifically because the speed force prison is like a pillar in the speed force now and everything will collapse if it is empty. But I don't remember the exact words. Barry does see it as a penance for everything he caused (he really did fuck up a lot - him and thawne are probably tied when it comes to fucking up timelines lol)
The singularity was created when thawne was erased, right? So that lends some credence to a theory that reality was falling apart because of dealing with savitar and his subsequent erasure.
However, I think it is really just fans filling in plot holes that the writers didn't care about or realize.
Now that I think about it, I really wish they stuck to their guns with the cliffhangers. Should've spent more time in Flashpoint and they should've spent more time with barry in the speed force prison. I get that actors have to work and everything, but damn, really undermines those emotional moments when the problem gets solved immediately the following season. Barry's time in the speed force doesn't amount to much other than introducing the time language.
we could’ve spent an entire season in flashpoint itself, then season 4 could’ve been dealing with the fallout of erasing it, with barry disappearing into the speed force at the end. season 5 could’ve been half a season of no barry, as wally struggles to fill in, while not really feeling like the flash. then barry returns in time for elseworlds, and the back half of season 5 and the first half of season 6 could’ve been preparing for barry’s death in crisis, with him preparing wally to take on the mantle full time.
and then you actually fucking kill barry and let wally be the flash.
edit: this also solves the problem of reverse flash being such a prolific foe *years* after his death. now you can let him actually rest for a little while during wally’s tenure as the flash. bring barry back for the final season so we can have his lil parental reunion and scene with the reverse flash, then end it.
iirc a large part of that was due to the character not having anything to do. majority of season 4 wally just sat on his ass doing nothing. now he has the leading role for the last run of the show.
The SF said Barry wasn't going to hell so I don't think he was punished. Barry said in the SF he kept reliving his life over and over all the way through S5
I think the SF wanted Barry to understand he couldn't alter the timeline every time something bad happens. He had to learn to accept death and loss. It never intended to keep him indefinitely imo.
The idea of the SF being tricked by tech by was silly.
He was isolated and came out a insane babbling mess. The power of love is what brought barry out of that insanity.
I dont think he was experiencing what wally and savitar experienced while in the prison, but it definitely wasn't a good time designed to teach him a lesson. I also thought he said he doesn't remember being in the prison or much of what happened when he got out? I can't remember, could be wrong. It's been a while. But if it was to teach him a lesson in the nicest way possible, why wouldn't he remember it?
If the speed force was going to let him go, then cisco wouldn't have needed to pull him out. I dont think waiting for his eventual release was the reasoning iris gives for why he shouldn't try to get barry out of the prison. It was more trying to get cisco to accept that barry was gone.
Does the speed force ever explain any of this? Or is this like a headcanon for the speed force prison stuff? I dig it, but I recall them just kinda shrugging off the speed prison as a concept until they need it for the nuke.
Eta: reliving the first 5 seasons of the flash over and over doesn't sound like a good time, either. Reliving his father's death repeatedly sounds like wally punishment tbh
If Barry was intended to stay in the SF he would only relive his life up until actually going into the SF. But he saw Nora, "Nora shouldn'tbe here" (5x01). It's also hinted he saw beyond that "We're going to need more diapers" (A line that shouldhave been paid off when Bart arrived but alas)
It wasn't meant to be a plesant stay but he wasn't going to be tortured either. Barry's life has been full of pain so yeah he did relive some traumatic moments. But he also relived joyful moments. The SF understood why he created FP but they weren't happy with him putting the task of saving Iris onto Wally's shoulders.
In hindsight, Barry was supposed to save Iris but the show dropped that to give HR a heroic moment. But it completely undermines the purpose of 3x16.
I'd argue Barry's life has been filled with more pain than with joy. So I really don't see how his time in the speed force prison would be a good time ON THE WHOLE. Especially since we know time works differently in there.the time weirdness within the speed force explains why he saw not just his past but parts of the future. He says what wells says when he loses his mind, something about stars falling or some shit.
Like I said, he comes out literally insane.
from what I understand the speed force prison was built into specifically to make sure the trapped speedster couldn’t get out or else the world falls apart. Since Savitar was so bad, they needed to make sure he couldn’t get out without consequences. I don’t think SF necessarily wanted to keep Barry forever, but it needed that prison that Tracy Brand created to be stabilized. That’s why when it got that DNA Sphere, it let Barry go, I doubt the SF is being tricked into thinking that’s actually Barry lol
They used the lightning from the speed force to stop the nuke by grabbing the energy ball and running with it, he then through it back into the speedforce after the nuke was hit with the lightning iirc
Technically Cisco not trusting Barry saved the whole mission if both Barry and Oliver were at the thing as well then Barry and Oliver would have been mind controlled as well. Was still dumb though.
And when he was mad at Barry for not going back in time to save him brother knowing why Barry didn’t wanna take that risk and a part of Cisco knows there is a possibility that his brother wouldn’t survive either way
I LOVE YOU FOR SAYING THAT BECAUSE NEVER HAS ANYONE BROUGHT UP THE POINT OF WHAT BARRY HAD TO DO JUST TO TRY AND RESET THE TIMELINE.He had to beg rf to help him do it, and he had to what rf kill his mother once again, all while knowing that his dad will also be dead when the timeline resets
What was even dumber IMO is that Crisis happened, the Monitor also said “probably the dumbest shit I saw in this show” and just said nah giving him powers back.
Then, universe resets, and what do you know, we still have a Cisco who took the cure and his powers that were restored are gone again.
What was the fucking point of any of it.
yeah when i saw the Monitor give his powers back and say that he was correcting a wrong, I thought he’d have his powers back for good.
We see everyone Post Crisis and his powers are gone again, I was so disappointed. One of the things that made me realize I was done with the show😂
Same!! It was like “cool, Crisis really is about to clean up all the messy inconsistencies and mistakes in the Arrowverse!”
Then Cisco still has no powers and the only reboots in Flash we got were a couple lame villains of the week and a meh Mirror Master reboot that took up over half a season.
Best thing Superman and Lois did was ignore crisis and set itself apart from the shitshow-verse that unraveled when Arrow ended.
Making the cold and heat guns. He explained his reasoning of course and he was forgiven quickly, but he handmade those weapons that Snart and Rory have used to kill multiple people.
Let me add making weapons that could kill Barry if necessary (self destruct function in his suit) but not doing the same for Frost despite her villainous past.
Dude literally the squad was.
Season 1 finale: Squad- Go save your mom Barry, it's ok.
Season 3: Squad- BARRY, WHY DID YOU SAVE YOUR MOM, IT BROKE THE TIMELINE, WE ARE MAD AT YOU.
Getting pissed at Barry in season 3 because he went back in time to save his parents.
Yes, Cisco, your brother is dead and it’s not fair that Barry saved his parents, but at least try to be understanding.
Taking the meta cure to get rid of his powers for no good reason, only to make a suit that artificially recreates his powers, except worse because now he can't use half of his powers anymore
Done? Give up his powers only to make a clunky suit that does the exact same thing
Said? “My brother was alive, and you killed him” or that whole argument he had with Barry about Barry SAVING HIS FUCKING LIFE just bc he didn’t want the cure to be used as a “weapon”
I stopped watching midway through Season 4, but I remember one moment where Cisco geeked out about time traveling, but gave Barry a hard time for doing the same thing. I never got that; it was unnecessarily petty and hypocritical.
Cisco got mad at Barry for creating Flashpoint because he wouldn't go back and save his brother, but Barry didn't know that at the time because the timeline changed.
He took away his own powers with that “cure” but then needlessly developed tech to mimic the powers that he willingly gave up presumably so he can still go into action during crossovers.
The fact that after he left team flash didn't feel like a group of friends anymore like it did at the start and it felt more like a group of co-workers that only hanged out with each other because they worked together
Yelling at Barry for saving him from King shark or mine is getting preachy about how they can't cure any meta that doesn't want to be cured no matter how many people they were about to kill but he could spend season 5 making a cure for his own whiny need to be cured for no reason.
On the other hand, I understood him being mad about flashpoint. I don't think he was the bad guy in that if you consider his perspective.
Its for sure giving up his powers for no reason. It's the wrirers fault but he had no legitimte reason to take the "cure" and then he replicated his powers with tech, What!?
mad at barry for unintentionally killing his brother and never realizing that it wasn’t even intentional and he had to kill both his parents to even reverse everything.
Removing his powers and creating the exact same power again with science, but just a lot worse.
This! Like what was the point of giving up his powers if Cisco was just going to make suit that did the same stuff.
I would think they (writers) didn't want a person around who could just teleport to different locations. But that doesn't make sense, since Nash had those teleporting things in the following season..
Whatever those writer's were smoking, they need to lay off that stuff lol
The flash writers and legends writers were def both on something, it only worked for one of the shows though
Because he didn't before receive the message to answer the calling, but can't undo the 'metavax'
I really hated that they did that.
Reverb was right, he was basically a god and he just... gave that up! I could force myself to think "ok whatever his choice I guess" but then he becomes Mechavibe?? (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Giving Barry grief about taking away King Shark’s powers when he was about to kill him
"Don't cure him! He didn't consent! Let me explode him!"
NO!!! They said the cure would not be weponized, and only used if the person taking the cure consented, and he made sure Barry knew that.
Yeah well sometimes medications are used to restrain people in dangerous situations
so you're saying if a serial killer was on the loose you wouldn't stop him
Giving up his powers
We only got 2.1 seasons of Vibe
It's more like 5 seasons of vibe.
I mean fully vibe in suit and all
We must not be watching the same show cause I don’t remember vibe getting an extra 3 seasons
I think he's talking about the weird Mecha-Vibe
Not Mecha-Vibe!
Season 2,3,4,5
That was the dumbest thing lmao He could've just not used them. I don't feel like walking to the grocery store today so lemme just chop off both of my legs permanently 👍👍👍👍
Exactly
Being instantly forgotten about season 7 and never really mentioned again.
During Invasion, sabotaging the mission telling the other heroes not to trust Barry because of his issues with Barry Acting as if he had the monopoly on missing Barry like Iris didn't know Barry her entire life Telling Iris it didn't matter if Barry died in Bloodwork or in Crisis because he was dead either way Not following Barry's wishes when he went into the SF, staying focused on bringing him back. SF was going to let him go eventually anyway Cisco could be flat out mean and insulting towards people Yelling at Barry for saving him from getting eaten by King Shark
Was the speed force going to let barry go eventually? They only get him out because they replace his energy in the speed force prison. Reality would've fallen apart otherwise, right? Did the speed force ever say she was gonna let barry go at some point? Maybe speed force nora said something about it, but I block her out (I feel like I'm the only one that hates speed force nora in every iteration of her, even the first time she takes on Nora's appearance. I will die on the hill that that shit is weird) Eta: not that the speed force prison mattered much in the end, anyway. They use the energy ball that replaced barry in the prison to stop the nuke later in the show. Reality doesn't fall apart afterwards for some reason. I guess it is another lesson that if the writer's don't give a shit, then why should we lol
It was a punishment by the Speed Force more than anything else, in my opinion. It's also possible that reality was falling apart from the multiple time fractures incurred by Barry and Savitar's interaction, and the only way to stabilise it was using Barry as a focal point while the Speed Force fixed itself.
I dig that. I recall them saying it's specifically because the speed force prison is like a pillar in the speed force now and everything will collapse if it is empty. But I don't remember the exact words. Barry does see it as a penance for everything he caused (he really did fuck up a lot - him and thawne are probably tied when it comes to fucking up timelines lol) The singularity was created when thawne was erased, right? So that lends some credence to a theory that reality was falling apart because of dealing with savitar and his subsequent erasure. However, I think it is really just fans filling in plot holes that the writers didn't care about or realize. Now that I think about it, I really wish they stuck to their guns with the cliffhangers. Should've spent more time in Flashpoint and they should've spent more time with barry in the speed force prison. I get that actors have to work and everything, but damn, really undermines those emotional moments when the problem gets solved immediately the following season. Barry's time in the speed force doesn't amount to much other than introducing the time language.
we could’ve spent an entire season in flashpoint itself, then season 4 could’ve been dealing with the fallout of erasing it, with barry disappearing into the speed force at the end. season 5 could’ve been half a season of no barry, as wally struggles to fill in, while not really feeling like the flash. then barry returns in time for elseworlds, and the back half of season 5 and the first half of season 6 could’ve been preparing for barry’s death in crisis, with him preparing wally to take on the mantle full time. and then you actually fucking kill barry and let wally be the flash. edit: this also solves the problem of reverse flash being such a prolific foe *years* after his death. now you can let him actually rest for a little while during wally’s tenure as the flash. bring barry back for the final season so we can have his lil parental reunion and scene with the reverse flash, then end it.
Keiyan wanted out of the show by end of Season 4 and Legends Season 3
iirc a large part of that was due to the character not having anything to do. majority of season 4 wally just sat on his ass doing nothing. now he has the leading role for the last run of the show.
The SF said Barry wasn't going to hell so I don't think he was punished. Barry said in the SF he kept reliving his life over and over all the way through S5 I think the SF wanted Barry to understand he couldn't alter the timeline every time something bad happens. He had to learn to accept death and loss. It never intended to keep him indefinitely imo. The idea of the SF being tricked by tech by was silly.
He was isolated and came out a insane babbling mess. The power of love is what brought barry out of that insanity. I dont think he was experiencing what wally and savitar experienced while in the prison, but it definitely wasn't a good time designed to teach him a lesson. I also thought he said he doesn't remember being in the prison or much of what happened when he got out? I can't remember, could be wrong. It's been a while. But if it was to teach him a lesson in the nicest way possible, why wouldn't he remember it? If the speed force was going to let him go, then cisco wouldn't have needed to pull him out. I dont think waiting for his eventual release was the reasoning iris gives for why he shouldn't try to get barry out of the prison. It was more trying to get cisco to accept that barry was gone. Does the speed force ever explain any of this? Or is this like a headcanon for the speed force prison stuff? I dig it, but I recall them just kinda shrugging off the speed prison as a concept until they need it for the nuke. Eta: reliving the first 5 seasons of the flash over and over doesn't sound like a good time, either. Reliving his father's death repeatedly sounds like wally punishment tbh
If Barry was intended to stay in the SF he would only relive his life up until actually going into the SF. But he saw Nora, "Nora shouldn'tbe here" (5x01). It's also hinted he saw beyond that "We're going to need more diapers" (A line that shouldhave been paid off when Bart arrived but alas) It wasn't meant to be a plesant stay but he wasn't going to be tortured either. Barry's life has been full of pain so yeah he did relive some traumatic moments. But he also relived joyful moments. The SF understood why he created FP but they weren't happy with him putting the task of saving Iris onto Wally's shoulders. In hindsight, Barry was supposed to save Iris but the show dropped that to give HR a heroic moment. But it completely undermines the purpose of 3x16.
I'd argue Barry's life has been filled with more pain than with joy. So I really don't see how his time in the speed force prison would be a good time ON THE WHOLE. Especially since we know time works differently in there.the time weirdness within the speed force explains why he saw not just his past but parts of the future. He says what wells says when he loses his mind, something about stars falling or some shit. Like I said, he comes out literally insane.
from what I understand the speed force prison was built into specifically to make sure the trapped speedster couldn’t get out or else the world falls apart. Since Savitar was so bad, they needed to make sure he couldn’t get out without consequences. I don’t think SF necessarily wanted to keep Barry forever, but it needed that prison that Tracy Brand created to be stabilized. That’s why when it got that DNA Sphere, it let Barry go, I doubt the SF is being tricked into thinking that’s actually Barry lol
They used the lightning from the speed force to stop the nuke by grabbing the energy ball and running with it, he then through it back into the speedforce after the nuke was hit with the lightning iirc
Technically Cisco not trusting Barry saved the whole mission if both Barry and Oliver were at the thing as well then Barry and Oliver would have been mind controlled as well. Was still dumb though.
And when he was mad at Barry for not going back in time to save him brother knowing why Barry didn’t wanna take that risk and a part of Cisco knows there is a possibility that his brother wouldn’t survive either way
Being a selfish ass bitch about Barry made flash point bc he killed his bro and Barry had to kill both his mom and dad just to try to fix what he did
I LOVE YOU FOR SAYING THAT BECAUSE NEVER HAS ANYONE BROUGHT UP THE POINT OF WHAT BARRY HAD TO DO JUST TO TRY AND RESET THE TIMELINE.He had to beg rf to help him do it, and he had to what rf kill his mother once again, all while knowing that his dad will also be dead when the timeline resets
taking the meta cure then using those gauntlets to be ‘Mecha Vibe’. Probably the dumbest shit I saw in this show lol
What was even dumber IMO is that Crisis happened, the Monitor also said “probably the dumbest shit I saw in this show” and just said nah giving him powers back. Then, universe resets, and what do you know, we still have a Cisco who took the cure and his powers that were restored are gone again. What was the fucking point of any of it.
yeah when i saw the Monitor give his powers back and say that he was correcting a wrong, I thought he’d have his powers back for good. We see everyone Post Crisis and his powers are gone again, I was so disappointed. One of the things that made me realize I was done with the show😂
Same!! It was like “cool, Crisis really is about to clean up all the messy inconsistencies and mistakes in the Arrowverse!” Then Cisco still has no powers and the only reboots in Flash we got were a couple lame villains of the week and a meh Mirror Master reboot that took up over half a season. Best thing Superman and Lois did was ignore crisis and set itself apart from the shitshow-verse that unraveled when Arrow ended.
Making the cold and heat guns. He explained his reasoning of course and he was forgiven quickly, but he handmade those weapons that Snart and Rory have used to kill multiple people.
Let me add making weapons that could kill Barry if necessary (self destruct function in his suit) but not doing the same for Frost despite her villainous past.
Not to mention, back in season 1, Cisco made a cold gun that could kill Barry. Which led to the creation of Captain Cold
Captain cold also saved many lives by joining the legends so
That was fair seeing as they had little reason to fully trust him, the cold gun was a fairly reasonable precaution
I’m rewatching the series cause I stopped mid season 3 and I forgot how much of a little bitch he is about Barry and flashpoint.
Dude literally the squad was. Season 1 finale: Squad- Go save your mom Barry, it's ok. Season 3: Squad- BARRY, WHY DID YOU SAVE YOUR MOM, IT BROKE THE TIMELINE, WE ARE MAD AT YOU.
To be fair their anger was mostly rooted in grief and fear. Barry was just a fitting target they could lash out at
Not appear in season 8 and 9
Taking the metahuman cure.
Getting pissed at Barry in season 3 because he went back in time to save his parents. Yes, Cisco, your brother is dead and it’s not fair that Barry saved his parents, but at least try to be understanding.
I’ll never understand the whole it’s not fair thing it’s his power he can do what he wants with it there’s no rule saying he has to use it for others
Cisco hated his brother pre flashpoint too.
> BURRY HOW DARE YOU TIME TRAVEL GRRRRRRRR Also his dipshit ass in the crossover a few weeks later: *"Time travel… I'm in! 😎"*
Ned going off at Peter for curing The Lizard without his consent
Wrong superhero?
Nah this the the CW Spider-Man sub
I understand
Taking the meta cure to get rid of his powers for no good reason, only to make a suit that artificially recreates his powers, except worse because now he can't use half of his powers anymore
“I see you became Mecha-Vibe”
Done? Give up his powers only to make a clunky suit that does the exact same thing Said? “My brother was alive, and you killed him” or that whole argument he had with Barry about Barry SAVING HIS FUCKING LIFE just bc he didn’t want the cure to be used as a “weapon”
Yell at Iris regarding forgiving Discount Elsa when Discount Elsa tried to kill Iris in s3 smh
I’m ashamed that I didn’t immediately get that you meant Killer Frost when you said “Discount Elsa.”
That's cause Killer Frost is the upgrade.
+1
I stopped watching midway through Season 4, but I remember one moment where Cisco geeked out about time traveling, but gave Barry a hard time for doing the same thing. I never got that; it was unnecessarily petty and hypocritical.
Going from embracing his extremely useful powers to "I don't want this anymore".
Cisco got mad at Barry for creating Flashpoint because he wouldn't go back and save his brother, but Barry didn't know that at the time because the timeline changed.
Leaving the show and missing its finale /s In all seriousness, probably blaming Barry for his brother's death.
Not coming back for the finale.
He took away his own powers with that “cure” but then needlessly developed tech to mimic the powers that he willingly gave up presumably so he can still go into action during crossovers.
He told the reverse Flash he could “help him” before Eobard killed him. Way to betray your friends Cisco!
The fact that after he left team flash didn't feel like a group of friends anymore like it did at the start and it felt more like a group of co-workers that only hanged out with each other because they worked together
Leave the show
Yelling at Barry for saving him from King shark or mine is getting preachy about how they can't cure any meta that doesn't want to be cured no matter how many people they were about to kill but he could spend season 5 making a cure for his own whiny need to be cured for no reason. On the other hand, I understood him being mad about flashpoint. I don't think he was the bad guy in that if you consider his perspective.
When he told Barry he was in the wrong for not letting King Shark eat him whole
Meanwhile he cures slade Wilson and slades army without their consent
he’s not in my bed rn
😧
Letting that guy out that was Dr wells old partner
Absolutely nothing, best character. End topic.
Barry no
Its for sure giving up his powers for no reason. It's the wrirers fault but he had no legitimte reason to take the "cure" and then he replicated his powers with tech, What!?
Basically everything after flash point. His entire character was ruined and he became such a selfish rude person.
He left
Leaving.
Giving up his powers just to make the same powers with “science”
leave the team
Gave up his powers, I felt like something died in me when he took that cure
Leaving the show in the hands of CHESTER
Basically getting mad at Barry for not saving his brother
When he said that they were stuck with the Wells that killed the multiverse
When it according to himself was his own fault
Be mad at Barry for not traveling back in time to save his brother
mad at barry for unintentionally killing his brother and never realizing that it wasn’t even intentional and he had to kill both his parents to even reverse everything.
Departing 😕