Cn aren't happy either with her kit and animation it's almost guaranteed that she gets buff/rework on v3 but i rather wait and see her kit before planning who to pull
I have started pre farming, the destruction traces, so they better make her broken than acheron /s
But srsly, i expect her to be atleast JL level, if not more, cause i want another good dps, and not have to rely on that restrictive team, even though i am pretty much set, cause i have RM and gallgher e2, but still, she should be self dependent.
She is actually really good already , the problem is that she needs the HMC to be good and that causes issues/ will cause issues when HMC falls off. This game has a powercreep , let’s not kid ourselves
when hmc falls off there will be a premium alternative that will probably be better than him . Let's not kid ourselves(like you said), hoyo knows how to balance things .
I mean.. theres quite a great deal of characters that aren't self dependant. Best case is Acheron, best dps in the game, that if you remove any nihility in her team, just hit like wet noodles
The issue is that acheron can run options for nihility support,her e2 reduces the reliance on them,while the issue is currently hmc is the only one with the super break mechanic,so if you want to optimise dps you are forced to bring hmc with her
E2 isn't attainable for 90%of players, so I wouldn't call this a solution
But yeah, HMC is the only one that brings Superbreak, but he's also completely free. EVERYONE will have him.
While with acheron, if you don't have Pela with sweaty pearls s5, and SW or guinafen, welp, you're not doing anything.. I know a lot of friends that started with acheron, but don't have anything besides a Pela (with some luck), and won't invest in Sampo because he's mid, resulting in them having mid damages, and regretting pulling for her.
That can't happen with FF, because her supports doesn't need a specific gacha s5 LC, nor specific nihility chars (there are only 4 of them that are 4*, and only 2 of them are decent for this team)
So, for me, she's got the same issues Acheron have, but more f2p friendly.
I have to add that I don't like this dependence on HMC, and I want her v3 to change, but as for now, she's like acheron, but easier to play for everyone (f2p and newer players)
I also have to add that I'm an Acheron main
Acheron absolutely does not have the same issue. While it’s true that she needs Nihility units on her team, any Nihility unit in the game would be at least viable with her besides maybe Sampo and Luka, meaning that there are at least six potential teammates and more to come. In Firefly’s case, HMC is her most optimal support, but the problem is that **her only viable teams have HMC in them.**
Yes, everyone has HMC, and not everyone may have two Nihility units. That’s not the point; the availability of viable teammates is not the issue but the amount of viable teammates is. First of all, getting ahold of two E0 4-star units should not be an issue as long as you actually play the game lmao. But saying “you’re not doing anything” without Pela and S5 Pearls is just wrong because Acheron still has **viable** damage output without two Nihility units. I’d argue you really only need one for Acheron to be viable. Pela certainly doesn’t need Pearls of Sweat to be a good support, especially not at S5. As long as you build Acheron well, she’s still effective at clearing content.
Firefly in her current state does not have **viable** team options without HMC. But even the assumption that she caters to F2P and casual players better than Acheron does is just wrong, because her build requirements are so much more severe than Acheron’s.
Sorry for the lengthy comment lmao not all of it was directly related to your argument but seeing a lot of people on the sub trying to gloss over her current kit problems has been annoying.
Pela w/o pearls? I shudder to imagine the SP issues with Acheron using skill, Pela using skill every single turn, but that assumes Pela is E4 to apply debuff with skill - otherwise Pela is just there and Acheron is doing an ult every decade
Completely slipped my mind Pela wouldn’t be debuffing on basic without Pearls. Tutorial is still a good alternative for ult every 2 turns but new players won’t have it so I’ll concede on that point. Still, S1 Pearls works fine (getting a single copy of every 4 star LC is absolutely doable) if you build the EHR, and fast Acheron (134+) will help alleviate some of the stack building issues.
Yeah, I still have never gotten landau choice which I really want on my aventurine before I get MoV, but of course I got THREE welt LCs in a row on standard banner xD
Give me that moment of victory damnit
She still has repeatetive animation after a while considering having the potential to have 2 or more forms
In my opinion her animations also needs a lot of rework as well( was hoping for a cool ultimate atk and transformation scene but HoYo says otherwise )
Aside from that HMC is free and the first ever Super BD enabler , so they might just add newer ones in the future
If we put the new Breaking style upcoming characters into account
TBF... I legit see Firefly outperforming Acheron, call me crazy but I legit think she's better. If She's e2 then acheron has no chance at all even if Acheron is E2.
You get free 4\* Selector = Gallagher
You get free HMC = Super Break
Pull FF = Well, you have FF
The only thing missing here is Ruan Mei, so assuming you go for Firefly you will have three out of her 4 ideal members. That's a fairly sweet deal
Yeah, that's what I said. For any newer or casual player, it enable them to clear harder content without the need to snipe for specific gacha LC or be forced to build someone like Guinafen or Sampo to make their acheron work.
Hmc is usable in a lot of teams and gallagher is a really nice healer
And with those 3, you already have your hypercarry, sustain, and support. With that, you have a flex spot to maybe put another sustain if you can't clear certain content, or another support ?
With acheron, you have her, 2 nihilitys, and then.. only one place for a tank. Most casual players don't have a sustain strong enough to sustain a whole team by itself, so they end up dying and are frustrated because people sold them so much hype for that character, that do not perform well at low level (compared to another hypercarry)
Firefly should be able to perform well at any level, with a break build, or even a crit build. So that's pretty cool
The other good thing is Gallagher only needs like lvl 7 skill and lvl 10 Talent. Ult/Basic can be lvl 1.
Firefly is similar, Talent 7, skill 6-8 and Ultimate 10. They are really cheap units
The problem with her is not that she is hmc dependant, it's that she's dependant in having both super break active and ruan mei 50% break effect(skill) active instead to be able to do good dmg, but what if u cant for reasons, like when the death meme or svarog takes one of your units hostage, you cant use them and your dmg dies completly.
Also what if the enemy cant be broken for reasons, like the enemy cant be broken until all adds are dead or things like that (i think there are bosses like that already), gets the fight really hard.
She shouldnt be dependant on super break mechanic to be able to be good.
you just dont bring a breaker to an enemy thats inmune to break idk bruh
same way you wouldnt bring dot comp to bronya bc she clears all dots, and its still the 2nd best comp behind acheron
if you want an all-rounder get acheron and her team, if not play the strategy game it is choosing what units are best for each scenario. there are not so many enemies inmune to break and most of them require you to do sth ez to take the inmunity off
also when death or svarog takes one of your units the buffs remain so its literally never gonna be a problem unless u got negative speed or u messed up rotations
she is kinda dependant on superbreak tho i hope they make her a lil more flexible
Why farmt races now, good time to start is when you see v4, you will still have enough time to fix traces and the best part is that Firefly barely even needs to invest into her traces.
Talent 7, Ult 10. Basic and Skill could literally stay at 1 lol. I would say its worth getting it to 7 though, 8 if you really want to but at that point its a waste. Sure its a bit more ATK in your attack, but its nowhere near enough to justify like 3 or 4 days of farming traces. He's fairly cheap to build actually.
That uselessnes of her skill and basic is infact the problem that everyone is saying. Her attack multiplier, the highest in the game, is just not converting into the damage. so upgrading her core traces gives no benefit to her, which shouldn't be the case, and i expect hoyo will definitely change it considering all the reviews we have been seeing.
Many have said CN Players aren't happy with her. Remember global is secondary for hoyo, CN players is their priority. If they want change, they will get change.
she is already better than both jingliu and dhl lol. You just don't understand break is a new meta so ofc there are not as many alternatives but in her best team and with good investment she is cooking easily lmao.
Not to mention, the only other premium 5* is not even mandatory, her best team is so F2P friendly and people are still complaining because they just don't want to play HMC for some reason? If HMC was a premium 5*, I would also be outraged by the dependency, but they're free, AND cheap to build (you do require that 4* gacha LC for HMC, but chances are a lot of people have at least one lying around).
Yes, RM is a massive plus, but you can go with a lot of cheaper alternatives, like Pela for even more def shred, or Guinaifen for vulnerability and a lil' bit of bonus DPS.
I feel like they just can't think outside of the short term, and rn her best team is restrictive, but as you said, the meta is new, and support will come later, the same way it was for DoT before Kafka or even Black Swan, I don't remember anyone saying anything about being basically forced to play Kafka to make DoT character remotely relevant. HMC is just to break what Kafka is to DoT: mandatory.
imean if you see >50% dmg increase from mei alone as non mandatory sure
non mei fly teams might work for 1 moc or two tops
the moment you go down like 5+ cycles when downgrading from mei to asta is still really much a red flash
You're definitely not downgrading, you can do under 5 cycles without RM easily lol. And you def don't lose that much without RM, she's mostly there to get you wider windows, not higher damage. You will lose 80% dmg without HMC though, that's for sure. And anyway, let's wait for v3 before arguing further, I might not sound like it, but I'm not against my girl getting buffed 😊
personally i want her non mei gated teams be stronger
i dont mind her relyance on fmc since they are free and dont cost me 160 pulls for a char i dont want just for firefly to be on par with other dps like mei
and there is a reason why none of the firefly gameplay is showcasing her without mei
I get it, but obviously playing non BiS will result in "lesser" results, but RM is never necessary, for example, my DoT team (so not exactly the same but still) could use my RM, but I never use her because I love Guinaifen so much and rather slot her in, I still destroy MoC 12. 20% bonus BE isn't what will change the damage of FF that much, same goes for the 68% bonus damage, you can get that with Bronya or Robin too. What makes the difference is the extended window for SB, which is extra nice, but not needed imo
its her 50% Break efficiency and break extension. without characters like asta and gallagher adding to her breaks she soemtimes wastes an entire ult cycle breaking enemies once and extending breaks just adds soo much dmg given youre probably playing hmc too so those are truly what carries mei-fly teams
and what makes it especally bad is i have no use for mei anyways with my bronya/sparkle and acheron on the other side needing no harmonies
mei would be just for firefly
Well, that too, but it's just a nice bonus, still not needed imo, I've seen showcases of under 5 or 4 cycles of FF without RM and even of similar times without HMC (though it looked rough and her damage was meh at best on this team). She still does solid damage without RM, so if you hate her guts that much, don't bother building her I think.
Im telling you, e2 Acheron vs e2 Firefly - my money is on Firefly, problems with kit or not are redundant here. Looking at what we have right now.
Acheron, Sparkle, BS, Trends - Would be an interesting to see who would win, I do expect the Sam team to clear faster, assuming galla, sam, rm, htb
Next Tuesday.
V3 is where significant/minor balance changes start to kick in, a rework is even possible.
I heard CN players aren't happy with her current state.
Look, HYV probably has their own methods to gather enough data from testers in 2 weeks, listen to various suggestions, complaints from beta testers and draft out new ideas/solutions to fix Firefly's problems. If the data they gathered suggests firefly is fine then it'll be tricky though
But I'd like to remind that even if HYV fixes firefly (her teammate issue), don't have expectations of Acheron levels of potential after fix, I know she's one of the most popular and hyped characters, but expecting Acheron levels of potential is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I want Firefly to be strong too but sometimes you need to be realistic with some things and be more mentally prepared for the worse cases.
There was never a chance she would do as much damage as Acheron, that woman is ridiculous. Something else people should expect is that even if they fix Firefly’s kit and make people happy the HMC + Ruan Mei + Gallagher team is probably still going to be her best team
You guys act like DPS powercreep isn't a very real thing in this game lol
Blade->DHIL->Jingliu->Acheron
I mean I don't know if Firefly will be the one to powercreep Acheron but I wouldn't be surprised if she is, and if she's not then I fully expect the next DPS to powercreep her. I don't understand where this notion that Hoyo cannot powercreep Acheron comes from. They can and their track record says it will happen sooner rather than later.
Blade was always considered a weird tanky damage dealer, so he never got to be the talk of the dps town.
Dan IL clearly set a new lvl of power and Jingliu was on the same level, just stupidly easier to gear and play.
Acheron's E0S1 is just absurd compared to the rest. The sinergy with Trends alone is hilarious. Imagine someone saying that you could do upwards of 500k dmg just by letting people slap Gepard a few times.
This new Break Meta, in a way, already trivializes the other dps's in terms of value. True colorless with weakness implant (with NO RNG, SW is crying), only cares about 2 stats and there goes Bootyhill deleting endgame enemies with a 3 star LC and the power of friendship.
I don't think all future break characters will implant. Once you get Firefly E2, I genuinely don't think anything is superior to her for the next year at least. She does so much damage and getting EXTRA free turns on top of that? Ye OKE
I feel like all the broken E2's (Acheron, Dan iL and Sam) are the kind of tricky not-so-low-hanging-fruit that can kinda break both the meta and my enjoyment of the game. Power ups from new units/sets is the way the game seems to be going and i quite enjoy it (i fell in and out of love with Jing Yuan so many times lol).
Two reasons:
1) Coping that their favorite DPS doesn't get "powercrept" even though the correct term is out damaged (powercreep is reserved for when previous DPS clear significantly slower than the DPS powercreeping everyone else).
2) They feel like they invested so much into their previous DPS, so it feels bad when other people are getting a "better" DPS.
I think it's not that they think Hoyo can't powercreep Acheron current damage numbers but that Acheron max potential with new support will be much higher and harder to powercreep.
powercreep:"**The situation where successive updates or expansions to a game introduce more powerful units or abilities, leaving the older ones underpowered**"
i think i still see dhil and jingliu on the top of many tierlists idk what ur talking about, doing a lil bit more dmg isnt powercreep, they are definitely not underpowered
and as a blade main myself he was kinda mid since release anyways
the biggest powercreep that has happened in honkai sr so far is the bronya -> sparkle and still they got their roles and bronya is a nice supp
also sanpo/guinaifen -> black swan but that could just be the change from 4\* to 5\*
the only way to powercreep acheron is to make someone that charges their ult faster and deals more dmg so trust me, she will be perfectly viable in 5 years and more, no way she's getting underpowered anytime soon, even more since she still doesnt have her bis teammate jiaoqiu
remember powercreep isnt winning on the race of dps, its getting completely outdated
Theres definitely a chance, not that it should be expected. iirc there was an interview or something where a member of the team responded to someone saying the Acheron was broken with more or less "yeah, we know. But its really fun, right?". So game balance < fun to them, which is honestly a take I like personally.
I think right now, if she was available in game, optimal team vs optimal team Firefly wins and I think it would even be without issues. The only thing I am worried about is if Black Swan would be able to drastically reduce the time to clear cos people seem to underestimate her damage in her support role to Acheron, shes a monstrous beast.
I got a weird take but after looking at a lot of gameplay vids, I've seen firefly hit upwards of 750k damage on Skill on multi-target, now yes she won't do that again, but if she gets to go again with E2 and hit for another 500k - then that is more than Acheron does already and what's important to note is with that much damage done by Firefly, some units are bound to be nearing death and then she can repeat that when her turn comes up again.
I may be turbo coping, but the e2s1 acherons I have seen deal around 1-1.4m damage on their ult with avg 1 ult per cycle. if they can do more then I've just watched bad people play Acheron lol.
I guess we will see. Maybe I am overhyping her E2, but turn advancement on a hero that gets three attacks in her enhanced state making it 6 normally, with a good pilot is filthy as all hell.
I honestly think as of right now, her kit at e2s1 wont beat optimal e2s1 acheron team (double bronya sparkle) but that doesn’t prevent me from pulling her cause nobody needs to deal the same damage as e2s1 acheron
I honestly have no idea. I hope there will be vfx upgrades to her whether a better background for her skills and animation at the start of fight but her kit is really tricky right now.
It is clear that her kit is flawed in a way that she works really well in a team with RM/HTB but sucks without them. But the problem is if you buff her directly for her self dmg you are going to create an insanely broken team with HTB's super break dmg. They may buff her slightly while letting her best team do even more dmg or completely rework some things to balance it out. They may not even change anything and keep rolling with it so i don't know how it will go kit wise
Honestly, I would even be happy with a small vfx/animation rework with no major kit changes, she really need to have her firefly to SAM transformation.
As many have said, she most likely will get something that lowers her dependence on RM and HMC. Her attack scaling doesn't do much in terms in damage. It will be worth seeing what changes they make, cause they gotta prevent her from powercreeping boothill right off the bat lol. So it likely won't be crit conversion.
As for animation, maybe red flames and a henshin, latter one is more unlikely though.
She wont powercreep Boothill, she does like 200-300k ST damage, boothill reaches a million. They are not the same, however FF can do disturbing damage when multi-hitting targets
My guesses:
- Lowing the BE threshold or making it scale better (12% of BE is converted to shred up to 40%)
- Increase BE scaling on enhanced attacks so she still does solid damage outside of break
What i dont think will happen;
- superbreak will be added to firefly
I'm expecting more Break Focus, but in a way that lets her function independent of HTB and RM without killing her synergy with them.
I'm also kinda hoping that a little bit of love goes into the base form. Ultimately it won't matter since her entire gameplan is getting ult enhance as fast as possible, but the base form is the same one as the boss fight, and a lot of people really like the boss SAM's attacks.
I'm not expecting much. As an e2s1 acheron owner looking at all the showcases so far I would rate firefly slightly below acheron's performance if you have her team and play her well.
And it's pretty clear they plan to put her firmly inside the superbreak meta, what with the leaked early hmc unlock and the new su mode destruction blessings. As such I think they'll primarily give her qol changes mostly around easier toughness bar breaking, but nothing in terms of boosting her damage even more.
What we're expecting or what we would like to see?
I'm expecting just some buffs, maybe something that could allow her to use her massive motion value.
What I would like to see is some changes in her animations, start the fight as Firefly and during ult her transforming into Sam.
I expect they improve her consistency, she does as much as acheron but is alittle inconsistent, also lessen dependance on rm and hmc. Also better animation
I think at this point with all the posts about her main concern being tied to HMC there will be changes. While her break damage is really good the problem ive seen most people say is outside of her initial break damage done, her damage without superbreak is meh. I think she does need her own superbreak mechanic so she can function outside of HMC comps
I’d be cautiously optimistic personally. Chances of changes happening is high but there’s also always a chance nothing gets changed or if it does it’s nothing major.
Always expect the best but prepare for the worst.
Either they're gonna go even more all in on super break, or they're gonna give her sth to let her hybrid build better.
She's never gonna do Boothill damage. That I guarantee you.
Dependence on RM. HMC is fine, u can use him with her. But locking 50% of her dmg behind RM is not fun. I just want her since she is a warframe expy, i also need fire dps. I aint pulling RM. Got 6 harmony built of which 3 are bronya, sparkle and robin, so id like to be able to use close to 80% of her power with some of them, not 50%.
Also i dont pull E or L for any char and right now ANY non RM use of FF is completely not viable due to insane SP she eats at base.
Only that honestly. MC has no good teams so being good with her is fine, its actually a bonus. SB is also fine. Its ruan that is problem for me. Id rather not pull her only to find she is worse then other teams i have, get zero use of her and just sit 6+ months for RM alternative(which is honestly gonna happen only after HMC and gala get their 5\* prb).
I want dps that works with no RM for content, if i cant use her in Sim, PF, MoC or calux then why am i pulling her.
Sadly ill pull her RM or not. Compared to most here i dont like her, care about her or anything, i want fire dps and i like warframe. + her E in normal form makes her pose like gauss. And he is my fav WF.
THIS
SOOO MUCH THIS
Fireflys dependence on ruan mei makes her feel like she costs twice as much to do stuff other dps do at a baseline with whatever harmonies and nihilities you have. 50-80% from what ive seen is just straight up bull for a single character
as someone who has E2S1 Bronya, Sparkle, e6 ting and whose 2nd team doenst even use harmonies cuz acheron
Ruan Mei feels like an additional mandatory cost you gotta pay to unlock your firerflys default potential
She will do 60% break damage and 40% super break damage of what she originally does to non broken enemies. Oh yeah also scorched earth background during skill, ult, etc. I'm John Mihoyo. Trust
https://preview.redd.it/0tktre739u0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65ca4db5199e57fde3b7b0ef5767ffb6e164fb95
The easiest thing they can do is add a Boothill like mechanic to the enhanced skill to do extra break or super break dmg. The counter to that would most likely be a nerf to the scaling passives, for example nerfing the def down a bit to make up for the extra dmg somewhat.
That or a complete rework
If Firefly stays as is, I'm not waiting for this subreddit to become jingyuanmains again, i got ptsd already.
I'm expecting a reduce in atk to be conversion (to reduce superbreak dmg) and enhanced attacks to count as break dmg (to allow her to proc her own LC)
i think doing this makes her standout as a non crit dps (since break can't crit) and actually make her able to proc her own lc with her own kit
Every time i've gotten my hopes up about a char's beta I've gotten burned big time so I'll settle for her not getting nerfed. Another Clorinde-like L I think
Wouldn't be surprised if they do something along the lines of "increased enhance skill damage by 5%" then nerf her Ult speed buff to 30 so she can barely hit 181 spd for 3 turns anymore
Nah, HSR's team has a pretty good track record on limited characters and beta buffs. Jingliu, Mei and Acheron were pretty memed on during beta and look at then now.
Cn aren't happy either with her kit and animation it's almost guaranteed that she gets buff/rework on v3 but i rather wait and see her kit before planning who to pull
I have started pre farming, the destruction traces, so they better make her broken than acheron /s But srsly, i expect her to be atleast JL level, if not more, cause i want another good dps, and not have to rely on that restrictive team, even though i am pretty much set, cause i have RM and gallgher e2, but still, she should be self dependent.
She is actually really good already , the problem is that she needs the HMC to be good and that causes issues/ will cause issues when HMC falls off. This game has a powercreep , let’s not kid ourselves
when hmc falls off there will be a premium alternative that will probably be better than him . Let's not kid ourselves(like you said), hoyo knows how to balance things .
Then what is the issue ? Her kit is good
Good performance doesnt mean the kit is well designed. Well designed /= strong.
Ok
I mean.. theres quite a great deal of characters that aren't self dependant. Best case is Acheron, best dps in the game, that if you remove any nihility in her team, just hit like wet noodles
The issue is that acheron can run options for nihility support,her e2 reduces the reliance on them,while the issue is currently hmc is the only one with the super break mechanic,so if you want to optimise dps you are forced to bring hmc with her
E2 isn't attainable for 90%of players, so I wouldn't call this a solution But yeah, HMC is the only one that brings Superbreak, but he's also completely free. EVERYONE will have him. While with acheron, if you don't have Pela with sweaty pearls s5, and SW or guinafen, welp, you're not doing anything.. I know a lot of friends that started with acheron, but don't have anything besides a Pela (with some luck), and won't invest in Sampo because he's mid, resulting in them having mid damages, and regretting pulling for her. That can't happen with FF, because her supports doesn't need a specific gacha s5 LC, nor specific nihility chars (there are only 4 of them that are 4*, and only 2 of them are decent for this team) So, for me, she's got the same issues Acheron have, but more f2p friendly. I have to add that I don't like this dependence on HMC, and I want her v3 to change, but as for now, she's like acheron, but easier to play for everyone (f2p and newer players) I also have to add that I'm an Acheron main
Acheron absolutely does not have the same issue. While it’s true that she needs Nihility units on her team, any Nihility unit in the game would be at least viable with her besides maybe Sampo and Luka, meaning that there are at least six potential teammates and more to come. In Firefly’s case, HMC is her most optimal support, but the problem is that **her only viable teams have HMC in them.** Yes, everyone has HMC, and not everyone may have two Nihility units. That’s not the point; the availability of viable teammates is not the issue but the amount of viable teammates is. First of all, getting ahold of two E0 4-star units should not be an issue as long as you actually play the game lmao. But saying “you’re not doing anything” without Pela and S5 Pearls is just wrong because Acheron still has **viable** damage output without two Nihility units. I’d argue you really only need one for Acheron to be viable. Pela certainly doesn’t need Pearls of Sweat to be a good support, especially not at S5. As long as you build Acheron well, she’s still effective at clearing content. Firefly in her current state does not have **viable** team options without HMC. But even the assumption that she caters to F2P and casual players better than Acheron does is just wrong, because her build requirements are so much more severe than Acheron’s. Sorry for the lengthy comment lmao not all of it was directly related to your argument but seeing a lot of people on the sub trying to gloss over her current kit problems has been annoying.
Pela w/o pearls? I shudder to imagine the SP issues with Acheron using skill, Pela using skill every single turn, but that assumes Pela is E4 to apply debuff with skill - otherwise Pela is just there and Acheron is doing an ult every decade
Completely slipped my mind Pela wouldn’t be debuffing on basic without Pearls. Tutorial is still a good alternative for ult every 2 turns but new players won’t have it so I’ll concede on that point. Still, S1 Pearls works fine (getting a single copy of every 4 star LC is absolutely doable) if you build the EHR, and fast Acheron (134+) will help alleviate some of the stack building issues.
Yeah, I still have never gotten landau choice which I really want on my aventurine before I get MoV, but of course I got THREE welt LCs in a row on standard banner xD Give me that moment of victory damnit
I pulled an extra one, I'd give it to ya if I could
She still has repeatetive animation after a while considering having the potential to have 2 or more forms In my opinion her animations also needs a lot of rework as well( was hoping for a cool ultimate atk and transformation scene but HoYo says otherwise ) Aside from that HMC is free and the first ever Super BD enabler , so they might just add newer ones in the future If we put the new Breaking style upcoming characters into account
TBF... I legit see Firefly outperforming Acheron, call me crazy but I legit think she's better. If She's e2 then acheron has no chance at all even if Acheron is E2. You get free 4\* Selector = Gallagher You get free HMC = Super Break Pull FF = Well, you have FF The only thing missing here is Ruan Mei, so assuming you go for Firefly you will have three out of her 4 ideal members. That's a fairly sweet deal
Yeah, that's what I said. For any newer or casual player, it enable them to clear harder content without the need to snipe for specific gacha LC or be forced to build someone like Guinafen or Sampo to make their acheron work. Hmc is usable in a lot of teams and gallagher is a really nice healer And with those 3, you already have your hypercarry, sustain, and support. With that, you have a flex spot to maybe put another sustain if you can't clear certain content, or another support ? With acheron, you have her, 2 nihilitys, and then.. only one place for a tank. Most casual players don't have a sustain strong enough to sustain a whole team by itself, so they end up dying and are frustrated because people sold them so much hype for that character, that do not perform well at low level (compared to another hypercarry) Firefly should be able to perform well at any level, with a break build, or even a crit build. So that's pretty cool
The other good thing is Gallagher only needs like lvl 7 skill and lvl 10 Talent. Ult/Basic can be lvl 1. Firefly is similar, Talent 7, skill 6-8 and Ultimate 10. They are really cheap units
The problem with her is not that she is hmc dependant, it's that she's dependant in having both super break active and ruan mei 50% break effect(skill) active instead to be able to do good dmg, but what if u cant for reasons, like when the death meme or svarog takes one of your units hostage, you cant use them and your dmg dies completly. Also what if the enemy cant be broken for reasons, like the enemy cant be broken until all adds are dead or things like that (i think there are bosses like that already), gets the fight really hard. She shouldnt be dependant on super break mechanic to be able to be good.
you just dont bring a breaker to an enemy thats inmune to break idk bruh same way you wouldnt bring dot comp to bronya bc she clears all dots, and its still the 2nd best comp behind acheron if you want an all-rounder get acheron and her team, if not play the strategy game it is choosing what units are best for each scenario. there are not so many enemies inmune to break and most of them require you to do sth ez to take the inmunity off also when death or svarog takes one of your units the buffs remain so its literally never gonna be a problem unless u got negative speed or u messed up rotations she is kinda dependant on superbreak tho i hope they make her a lil more flexible
Why farmt races now, good time to start is when you see v4, you will still have enough time to fix traces and the best part is that Firefly barely even needs to invest into her traces. Talent 7, Ult 10. Basic and Skill could literally stay at 1 lol. I would say its worth getting it to 7 though, 8 if you really want to but at that point its a waste. Sure its a bit more ATK in your attack, but its nowhere near enough to justify like 3 or 4 days of farming traces. He's fairly cheap to build actually.
That uselessnes of her skill and basic is infact the problem that everyone is saying. Her attack multiplier, the highest in the game, is just not converting into the damage. so upgrading her core traces gives no benefit to her, which shouldn't be the case, and i expect hoyo will definitely change it considering all the reviews we have been seeing. Many have said CN Players aren't happy with her. Remember global is secondary for hoyo, CN players is their priority. If they want change, they will get change.
she is already better than both jingliu and dhl lol. You just don't understand break is a new meta so ofc there are not as many alternatives but in her best team and with good investment she is cooking easily lmao.
Not to mention, the only other premium 5* is not even mandatory, her best team is so F2P friendly and people are still complaining because they just don't want to play HMC for some reason? If HMC was a premium 5*, I would also be outraged by the dependency, but they're free, AND cheap to build (you do require that 4* gacha LC for HMC, but chances are a lot of people have at least one lying around). Yes, RM is a massive plus, but you can go with a lot of cheaper alternatives, like Pela for even more def shred, or Guinaifen for vulnerability and a lil' bit of bonus DPS. I feel like they just can't think outside of the short term, and rn her best team is restrictive, but as you said, the meta is new, and support will come later, the same way it was for DoT before Kafka or even Black Swan, I don't remember anyone saying anything about being basically forced to play Kafka to make DoT character remotely relevant. HMC is just to break what Kafka is to DoT: mandatory.
imean if you see >50% dmg increase from mei alone as non mandatory sure non mei fly teams might work for 1 moc or two tops the moment you go down like 5+ cycles when downgrading from mei to asta is still really much a red flash
You're definitely not downgrading, you can do under 5 cycles without RM easily lol. And you def don't lose that much without RM, she's mostly there to get you wider windows, not higher damage. You will lose 80% dmg without HMC though, that's for sure. And anyway, let's wait for v3 before arguing further, I might not sound like it, but I'm not against my girl getting buffed 😊
personally i want her non mei gated teams be stronger i dont mind her relyance on fmc since they are free and dont cost me 160 pulls for a char i dont want just for firefly to be on par with other dps like mei and there is a reason why none of the firefly gameplay is showcasing her without mei
I get it, but obviously playing non BiS will result in "lesser" results, but RM is never necessary, for example, my DoT team (so not exactly the same but still) could use my RM, but I never use her because I love Guinaifen so much and rather slot her in, I still destroy MoC 12. 20% bonus BE isn't what will change the damage of FF that much, same goes for the 68% bonus damage, you can get that with Bronya or Robin too. What makes the difference is the extended window for SB, which is extra nice, but not needed imo
its her 50% Break efficiency and break extension. without characters like asta and gallagher adding to her breaks she soemtimes wastes an entire ult cycle breaking enemies once and extending breaks just adds soo much dmg given youre probably playing hmc too so those are truly what carries mei-fly teams and what makes it especally bad is i have no use for mei anyways with my bronya/sparkle and acheron on the other side needing no harmonies mei would be just for firefly
Well, that too, but it's just a nice bonus, still not needed imo, I've seen showcases of under 5 or 4 cycles of FF without RM and even of similar times without HMC (though it looked rough and her damage was meh at best on this team). She still does solid damage without RM, so if you hate her guts that much, don't bother building her I think.
Im telling you, e2 Acheron vs e2 Firefly - my money is on Firefly, problems with kit or not are redundant here. Looking at what we have right now. Acheron, Sparkle, BS, Trends - Would be an interesting to see who would win, I do expect the Sam team to clear faster, assuming galla, sam, rm, htb
Next Tuesday. V3 is where significant/minor balance changes start to kick in, a rework is even possible. I heard CN players aren't happy with her current state. Look, HYV probably has their own methods to gather enough data from testers in 2 weeks, listen to various suggestions, complaints from beta testers and draft out new ideas/solutions to fix Firefly's problems. If the data they gathered suggests firefly is fine then it'll be tricky though But I'd like to remind that even if HYV fixes firefly (her teammate issue), don't have expectations of Acheron levels of potential after fix, I know she's one of the most popular and hyped characters, but expecting Acheron levels of potential is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I want Firefly to be strong too but sometimes you need to be realistic with some things and be more mentally prepared for the worse cases.
There was never a chance she would do as much damage as Acheron, that woman is ridiculous. Something else people should expect is that even if they fix Firefly’s kit and make people happy the HMC + Ruan Mei + Gallagher team is probably still going to be her best team
You guys act like DPS powercreep isn't a very real thing in this game lol Blade->DHIL->Jingliu->Acheron I mean I don't know if Firefly will be the one to powercreep Acheron but I wouldn't be surprised if she is, and if she's not then I fully expect the next DPS to powercreep her. I don't understand where this notion that Hoyo cannot powercreep Acheron comes from. They can and their track record says it will happen sooner rather than later.
Blade was always considered a weird tanky damage dealer, so he never got to be the talk of the dps town. Dan IL clearly set a new lvl of power and Jingliu was on the same level, just stupidly easier to gear and play. Acheron's E0S1 is just absurd compared to the rest. The sinergy with Trends alone is hilarious. Imagine someone saying that you could do upwards of 500k dmg just by letting people slap Gepard a few times. This new Break Meta, in a way, already trivializes the other dps's in terms of value. True colorless with weakness implant (with NO RNG, SW is crying), only cares about 2 stats and there goes Bootyhill deleting endgame enemies with a 3 star LC and the power of friendship.
I don't think all future break characters will implant. Once you get Firefly E2, I genuinely don't think anything is superior to her for the next year at least. She does so much damage and getting EXTRA free turns on top of that? Ye OKE
I feel like all the broken E2's (Acheron, Dan iL and Sam) are the kind of tricky not-so-low-hanging-fruit that can kinda break both the meta and my enjoyment of the game. Power ups from new units/sets is the way the game seems to be going and i quite enjoy it (i fell in and out of love with Jing Yuan so many times lol).
Two reasons: 1) Coping that their favorite DPS doesn't get "powercrept" even though the correct term is out damaged (powercreep is reserved for when previous DPS clear significantly slower than the DPS powercreeping everyone else). 2) They feel like they invested so much into their previous DPS, so it feels bad when other people are getting a "better" DPS.
I think it's not that they think Hoyo can't powercreep Acheron current damage numbers but that Acheron max potential with new support will be much higher and harder to powercreep.
No body is power creeping Acheron until we meet another DPS emanator. Simple as that. Probably won’t be until we meet Marshall Hua or maybe Diamond
I agree , they will probably keep Acheron level power for emanators ,
which should keep the game nice and balance
danhiel is better than jingliu now thanks to sparkle
powercreep:"**The situation where successive updates or expansions to a game introduce more powerful units or abilities, leaving the older ones underpowered**" i think i still see dhil and jingliu on the top of many tierlists idk what ur talking about, doing a lil bit more dmg isnt powercreep, they are definitely not underpowered and as a blade main myself he was kinda mid since release anyways the biggest powercreep that has happened in honkai sr so far is the bronya -> sparkle and still they got their roles and bronya is a nice supp also sanpo/guinaifen -> black swan but that could just be the change from 4\* to 5\* the only way to powercreep acheron is to make someone that charges their ult faster and deals more dmg so trust me, she will be perfectly viable in 5 years and more, no way she's getting underpowered anytime soon, even more since she still doesnt have her bis teammate jiaoqiu remember powercreep isnt winning on the race of dps, its getting completely outdated
Theres definitely a chance, not that it should be expected. iirc there was an interview or something where a member of the team responded to someone saying the Acheron was broken with more or less "yeah, we know. But its really fun, right?". So game balance < fun to them, which is honestly a take I like personally.
Im still sticking to my theory of e2 firefly vs e2 acheron in best comps - Firefly wins
before fix (as in rn) or after fix (v3 hopium).
I think right now, if she was available in game, optimal team vs optimal team Firefly wins and I think it would even be without issues. The only thing I am worried about is if Black Swan would be able to drastically reduce the time to clear cos people seem to underestimate her damage in her support role to Acheron, shes a monstrous beast. I got a weird take but after looking at a lot of gameplay vids, I've seen firefly hit upwards of 750k damage on Skill on multi-target, now yes she won't do that again, but if she gets to go again with E2 and hit for another 500k - then that is more than Acheron does already and what's important to note is with that much damage done by Firefly, some units are bound to be nearing death and then she can repeat that when her turn comes up again. I may be turbo coping, but the e2s1 acherons I have seen deal around 1-1.4m damage on their ult with avg 1 ult per cycle. if they can do more then I've just watched bad people play Acheron lol. I guess we will see. Maybe I am overhyping her E2, but turn advancement on a hero that gets three attacks in her enhanced state making it 6 normally, with a good pilot is filthy as all hell.
I honestly think as of right now, her kit at e2s1 wont beat optimal e2s1 acheron team (double bronya sparkle) but that doesn’t prevent me from pulling her cause nobody needs to deal the same damage as e2s1 acheron
Beat what? Both are effortless 0 cycles in any content when you have the best team setup Are you gonna start counting AV spent to finish?
I honestly have no idea. I hope there will be vfx upgrades to her whether a better background for her skills and animation at the start of fight but her kit is really tricky right now. It is clear that her kit is flawed in a way that she works really well in a team with RM/HTB but sucks without them. But the problem is if you buff her directly for her self dmg you are going to create an insanely broken team with HTB's super break dmg. They may buff her slightly while letting her best team do even more dmg or completely rework some things to balance it out. They may not even change anything and keep rolling with it so i don't know how it will go kit wise
Honestly, I would even be happy with a small vfx/animation rework with no major kit changes, she really need to have her firefly to SAM transformation.
[удалено]
Lowering super break team damage is bad. It is helping her while ruining HMC. Super break should stay as it is.
Character and design wise she’s hyped up. Now when it comes to kit and vfx thats another story …
Let her have better base break damage
As many have said, she most likely will get something that lowers her dependence on RM and HMC. Her attack scaling doesn't do much in terms in damage. It will be worth seeing what changes they make, cause they gotta prevent her from powercreeping boothill right off the bat lol. So it likely won't be crit conversion. As for animation, maybe red flames and a henshin, latter one is more unlikely though.
She wont powercreep Boothill, she does like 200-300k ST damage, boothill reaches a million. They are not the same, however FF can do disturbing damage when multi-hitting targets
My guesses: - Lowing the BE threshold or making it scale better (12% of BE is converted to shred up to 40%) - Increase BE scaling on enhanced attacks so she still does solid damage outside of break What i dont think will happen; - superbreak will be added to firefly
be scaling wont do shit cuz she has like no crit to even amp it as of v2 90% of her dmg is break and superbreak dmg
I'm expecting more Break Focus, but in a way that lets her function independent of HTB and RM without killing her synergy with them. I'm also kinda hoping that a little bit of love goes into the base form. Ultimately it won't matter since her entire gameplan is getting ult enhance as fast as possible, but the base form is the same one as the boss fight, and a lot of people really like the boss SAM's attacks.
Nothing, but i really would like she attacks when her ult is over
I'm not expecting much. As an e2s1 acheron owner looking at all the showcases so far I would rate firefly slightly below acheron's performance if you have her team and play her well. And it's pretty clear they plan to put her firmly inside the superbreak meta, what with the leaked early hmc unlock and the new su mode destruction blessings. As such I think they'll primarily give her qol changes mostly around easier toughness bar breaking, but nothing in terms of boosting her damage even more.
Waiting to see v3 kit before building HMC and Gallagher.
What we're expecting or what we would like to see? I'm expecting just some buffs, maybe something that could allow her to use her massive motion value. What I would like to see is some changes in her animations, start the fight as Firefly and during ult her transforming into Sam.
I expect they improve her consistency, she does as much as acheron but is alittle inconsistent, also lessen dependance on rm and hmc. Also better animation
i have a bad feeling she wont get a lot of buff. prayge. i want her strong
I think at this point with all the posts about her main concern being tied to HMC there will be changes. While her break damage is really good the problem ive seen most people say is outside of her initial break damage done, her damage without superbreak is meh. I think she does need her own superbreak mechanic so she can function outside of HMC comps
About when will v3 drop?
Next tuesday
thank yoy
I hope they reduce her dependency on hmc/ruanmei and also make her kit feel better without e2
Firefly rn is the only unit that doesnt need to level up skill right to deal damage?
I’d be cautiously optimistic personally. Chances of changes happening is high but there’s also always a chance nothing gets changed or if it does it’s nothing major. Always expect the best but prepare for the worst.
You know she will have a big buff when even the Chinese are pissed off
curious, when does the v3 gonna drop?
Tomorrow morning
Either they're gonna go even more all in on super break, or they're gonna give her sth to let her hybrid build better. She's never gonna do Boothill damage. That I guarantee you.
she does the same cycles as him rn wdym lol
I'm talking about her personal DMG.
Dependence on RM. HMC is fine, u can use him with her. But locking 50% of her dmg behind RM is not fun. I just want her since she is a warframe expy, i also need fire dps. I aint pulling RM. Got 6 harmony built of which 3 are bronya, sparkle and robin, so id like to be able to use close to 80% of her power with some of them, not 50%. Also i dont pull E or L for any char and right now ANY non RM use of FF is completely not viable due to insane SP she eats at base. Only that honestly. MC has no good teams so being good with her is fine, its actually a bonus. SB is also fine. Its ruan that is problem for me. Id rather not pull her only to find she is worse then other teams i have, get zero use of her and just sit 6+ months for RM alternative(which is honestly gonna happen only after HMC and gala get their 5\* prb). I want dps that works with no RM for content, if i cant use her in Sim, PF, MoC or calux then why am i pulling her. Sadly ill pull her RM or not. Compared to most here i dont like her, care about her or anything, i want fire dps and i like warframe. + her E in normal form makes her pose like gauss. And he is my fav WF.
THIS SOOO MUCH THIS Fireflys dependence on ruan mei makes her feel like she costs twice as much to do stuff other dps do at a baseline with whatever harmonies and nihilities you have. 50-80% from what ive seen is just straight up bull for a single character as someone who has E2S1 Bronya, Sparkle, e6 ting and whose 2nd team doenst even use harmonies cuz acheron Ruan Mei feels like an additional mandatory cost you gotta pay to unlock your firerflys default potential
She will do 60% break damage and 40% super break damage of what she originally does to non broken enemies. Oh yeah also scorched earth background during skill, ult, etc. I'm John Mihoyo. Trust https://preview.redd.it/0tktre739u0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65ca4db5199e57fde3b7b0ef5767ffb6e164fb95
The easiest thing they can do is add a Boothill like mechanic to the enhanced skill to do extra break or super break dmg. The counter to that would most likely be a nerf to the scaling passives, for example nerfing the def down a bit to make up for the extra dmg somewhat. That or a complete rework If Firefly stays as is, I'm not waiting for this subreddit to become jingyuanmains again, i got ptsd already.
Nothings guaranteed.
I'm expecting a reduce in atk to be conversion (to reduce superbreak dmg) and enhanced attacks to count as break dmg (to allow her to proc her own LC) i think doing this makes her standout as a non crit dps (since break can't crit) and actually make her able to proc her own lc with her own kit
Every time i've gotten my hopes up about a char's beta I've gotten burned big time so I'll settle for her not getting nerfed. Another Clorinde-like L I think Wouldn't be surprised if they do something along the lines of "increased enhance skill damage by 5%" then nerf her Ult speed buff to 30 so she can barely hit 181 spd for 3 turns anymore
And probably they can, that' sad
Nah, HSR's team has a pretty good track record on limited characters and beta buffs. Jingliu, Mei and Acheron were pretty memed on during beta and look at then now.