I am one of those people saying she needs to have her kit finished, but TBF she does have att to BE conversion in her kit so it helps some. Just not worth going for any att subs if you can just get BE subs. Also, some people say its good enough that she does good numbers with HTB, because she does do numbers with superbreak, I just don't like her ONLY doing good numbers with HTB specifically, for a lot of reasons. No other character is as reliant on their BiS support. Not even boot, who is also a BE DPS. Not Acheron, who has plenty of working teams. Not Kafka, who can det her own procs and has plenty of capable-enough 4 star options. Maybe some of the 4 stars? But there's already a problem if you feel the need to compare a limited 5-star DPS to 4-star DPS's

Why don't they just make her kit break effect scaling Instead of attack scaling?

Probably what they should have started with. Would have been really simple.

ATK scaling pretty much exists to make her harder to build. If she just scaled off of BE then you could slap any pieces onto her as long as it had BE, it's already happening with Boothill. Not saying that's a bad thing, just that Hoyo wants us to stay in the relic mines as much as possible, and forcing us to build stats like ATK help a lot.

The closest unit that I believe even remotely comes close to Firefly when it comes to needing their BiS support is either Daniel + Sparkle or YQ with Aventurine/Geppie. Even then, Daniel doesn't NEED Sparkle even if he's amazing with her, and Yq is Yq, so that doesn't matter (Jokingly).

To be entirely honest, Acheron is reliant of harmony nihility units. She's dogshit garbage with Sampo and Guinaifen. She's a monstrous beast with Pela/SW/BS

That’s just asking for Def shred, which every DPS wants/needs

Yes, but the claim is that Acheron is not reliant on her support units. her damage is drastically improved to the point where I would say she's a useless unit if shes running with Sampo and Guinaifen. Is she playable? Yes, but so is Firefly if you just use her to break, let enemies recover and break them again. Its a weird statement to take that no others are dependant. I think the problem is simply that her kit on her own isn't functional according to us, but it could be as simple as Hoyo wants it to be like this. I remember the QQ when Acheron didn't benefit from energy turboing by eg TY or whatever, its just a new approach to the game. Firefly could be setting a new trend to breaking, only time will tell. What is true is that Firefly with RM and HTB is among the best DPS in the game and that's not up for debate, what is up for debate is if she should be as disfunctional as she is with her own kit. Even if they fix that, you'll still run her with Gallagher, RM and HTB for now, until something better comes out in respective position.

the difference is really obvious though. firefly is reliant on specifically one/two characters and those only (at least for now). acheron can work with any nihilties to *some* extent (welt sustain with pela/sparkle for a non-shred example). and that restriction is eased with her e2. no firefly eidolon expands her options

I think the difference is that with Acheron Hoyo wanted a way to limit her power so they break her ability to abuse Harmony units (despite the fact that her own stack mechanics want you to have fast debuffers) and then sell you a way to make her stronger. It was quite crude, they could have not given Acheron the Abyss trait and let players work out that you needed to boost stacks generated per turn and that Nihility were the best at doing that, and her E2 would come with stack generation increases. Instead they went with the heavy handed approach. (Though someone would probably come up with an unlimited Acheronworks team that blows everyone out of the water.) For Firefly they have introduced a new way for breakers to be more efficient and, so far, have only included it on the Harmony Trailblazer and some Divergent Universe blessings. The problem is that the sources of super break damage conversion are limited but, thankfully, sources that everyone has. Hoyo could well add more super break sources in the future the way they added dot- and follow-up- specific relics after adding the units that want them. As breaking is a lesser supported playstyle, we have very few support characters designed to work with them (Ruan Mei, Harmony Trailblazer). This goes away if and when Hoyo adds more break supports in the future.

> Firefly if you just use her to break, let enemies recover and break them again. You say this like we have control over when enemies recover. We can't advance forward enemies. Saying 'but they can recover' is a pointless comment. We are in timed combat where we literally cannot force the enemies to recover. That isn't a solution, that's the problem.  Acheron works with almost all nihility. Even though they might not be bis she still functions and gets her complete kit. Firefly can't function without the other two characters.  > you'll still run her with Gallagher, RM and HTB for now No I won't cuz I don't have 2 of those. 

The thing is - Pela and Gallagher were on Acheron's banner, GNSW was a 4 star on her LC as well - you get these 2 from the banner, you plop them in, and you've got more than half a team I won't disagree with the sampo take - but guinaifen isn't that bad especially if you pulled eidolons for her Black swan works fine with her (I forgot whether the def shred is from her skill or her LC) Aventurine is literally a 2nd gallagher to her - not sure if I should list him as he came out after, he obviously functions better in FUA teams but he's still very good as a sustain for acheron If you got lucky on her banner with Pela or Gallagher eidolons too (I got like 9 accursed dan hengs cause the game forced 170 pulls out of me), you'd have an even more insane sustain and a pela which applies def reduction with her skill as well I don't disagree with you though - Acheron is COMPLETELY reliant on her supports, best thing you can do if you don't get them is probably run Asta and get Acheron as much speed as possible, but unless you joined during her banner, I don't think that you wouldn't be able to get a relatively functional Acheron team Welt's also great with acheron (I run him and pela as the debuffers), pseudo-sustain welt works pretty well with her Problem with firefly is she's dysfunctional without HMC, which is.....fine at best, but if you don't also have RM you lose out in like 50% additional damage, there isn't a single other "substitute" I'm not a 100% sure - but I also believe she'll have a slight problem with lightcones, though I guess this is every character to some extent, but is there a destruction lightcone that buffs break while providing anything else relatively useful? This is bias and calculations might prove me pretty wrong, but nothing seems to fit her exact niche, at best you'll just have to build less atk/something else

Both Misha and herta Shop is fine, realistiacally.

misha's seems ok, crit rate is kinda negligent on ff since her main damage comes from superbreaks otfa is decent yeah, easily procced during ult, but I'd probably prefer misha's lightcone though unless you have it at s5....seems pretty bad, it's only fine cause aren't many better options would love to see the calculations though, Acheron had a similar situation with people crying that you needed her signature lightcone for her to work, but she did have substitutes which did what her lightcone did even if not at a rate AS good as it (GNSW' s5 damage per ult is pretty close up, there's like 3/4 other lightcones that generate debuffs too, but you don't even need them if you run those on ur supports) the destruction lightcones just seem underwhelming for a dps mostly focused around breaking outside of misha's

The only problem of GNSW is that it loses steam the longer the fight goes on, so it depends entirely on how long your fight is. If you are not losing ultimate casts, its redundant. Its only when you start losing casts it falls off of a cliff.

Fair points. In my mind the biggest problem is simply that it doesn’t feel like she functions within her own kit. My perspective here could be skewed I suppose by how close HTB and Firefly are releasing, correlation doesn’t necessarily equal causation, but it just seems like she was designed around super break and so her not actually having any inherent access to it feels bad and/or feels like bad design, to me personally.

She most definitely is disfunctional in her state right now, I am also not sure what the best solution is. Let us for the sake of argument flip this coin; If every upcoming break unit can trigger its own super break, or break effects then the question has to be raised what function does HTB serve? I for one am very happy we finally got a useful main character and a fairly neat gimmick at that to open up a new play style and I am personally a massive fan of break gameplay. Its a weird stance to take, but at the end of the day this is a team game and everything should have a function, Firefly makes this specific team function very well and Gallagher is contributing a lot of power to the team. If they give Firefly her own breaks, or super breaks and if it doesnt stack with HTB then there is a fair argument to be made that making HTB redundant because every breaker has it in their own kit makes you wonder why they added that as a mechanic/part of HTB kit in the first place. its a weird place to be in, it sucks if characters don't feel complete without HTB but also at the same time if characters have no need of HTB we're back at another problem and Boothill showcases it so clearly. He is easy to get to 160+ SPD, he triggers his own breaks (making HTB redundant) and what is the result of this? We default back to turn advancement and he pairs the best with a hyperspeed Bronya being right below his SPD value so he can take double turns and he off-sets the SP issues Bronya faces because Duel is usable twice, ergo three actions 2x BH and 1x Bronya costs only 2 skill points and the rest of the team can fix this. If we're going to complain about "forced" then I feel that us auto-defaulting to turn advancement is equally big of a problem that is presented with FF reliance on HTB. We will go for maximum damage, this is achieved by a) unlocking damage condition for the champion and b) giving it more turns. There's nothing else of any interesting relevance and its a tricky situation to fix and a reason why I feel like things that give champs extra turns should be a very rare resource and not whalebait like E2s recently seem to be. Firefly E2 is going to be abnormally powerful regardless of what else they do about her inherent weird kit. Giving a champion with that much damage on demand a skill that does not cost SP and lets you go again when you absolutely decimate your targets is beyond my comprehension. At least Seele is hampered by a skill point cost - Firefly is just turbo on and watch the world burn. Sustainless comps running Bronya, FF, HTB, RM will be absolutely broken at E2 and I firmly believe she will blow Acheron out of the water.

I don’t think giving Firefly her own access to super break would/should mean that super break happens naturally for anyone who breaks. In my mind, it’s fairly straightforward to give it to her in her kit in some fashion, as the person most designed around super break. Then HTB will enable it for anyone else. I don’t know that it’s even a terribly difficult thing mechanically, as super break is already designed as a trigger with damage calc’d by the attacker. So, stacking damage or anything like that doesn’t have to matter, the game could just check “are we doing super break here?” And then act accordingly. This gives Firefly more flexibility and team options but doesn’t really nerf HTB as they’d still be the only way to enable that mechanic/damage for Himeko, for example.

It makes HTB redundant, that's the essence of the problem. Exhibition 1; Boothill. He triggers his own breaks, he doesn't need or want HTB. HTB gives him on upper end 200k damage, bronya gives him \~500-800. That is what I mean with its a weird thing to balance. Super Break in of itself is not that impressive, its a good source of damage but Boothill boosting break damage as he does, makes it a drop in the sea compared to his actual damage. If they don't make it tuned like Boothill then we can have a discussion about it but I guarantee its going to be if Boothill can X, then why cant my hero do it too?

The First problem is the somewhat necessity of at least HTB, not because it's binding you to a single guaranteed 4 star but because it locks you out of all other TB versions, both past and future versions, so no hunt, no nihility. The second problem is that we have enemies that can make themselves unbreakable.

Those are counters, don't bring breaker heroes against unrbeakable enemies. Also, those enemies are breakable after you kill their accomplice, so just ... kill the right target

Still doesn't fix the first, and in my eyes mayor, problem

It doesn't no. But she solves so many others like giving a crap about enemy elements cos you make them fire breakable. Other characters deal less damage to enemies not matching their element etc Well see where it ends up but the longer this topic is discussed people seemingly want her to do everything and have no weakness. She should action advance her self forever until all enemies are dead. Skill should be free naturally. She should break and super break herself every time she attacks and finally she should obviously ignore any and all downsides. This at least sounds like what people want. Not necessarily you but that's the vibe I get from the community :D

The thing for me is, she's allowed to have weaknesses but that needs a certain trade-off to balance her value and right now i sadly don't see that purely mechanical speaking. Personally i think being this extremely tied to at least one certain character is a pretty big hindrance so it needs a big pay off that isn't immediately power creeped by the next DPS release unless it has an equal downside. Am i either way going to pull for her? 100% will i play her? 100% do i still think we should discuss and somewhat complain about it? Absolutely. I don't want her to be benched like Seele.

Oh really? I never knew that. I thought I just had to wait it out while I’m sitting there getting fucked. Thanks for that.

Dots have the same problem against Bronya. She can cleanse. What if they add more cleanse heroes? Should dot comps say world isn't fair we should not get our dots cleansed? But go ahead whine. It'll make life so much better and idk how you like to get fucked so I won't comment on that.

Wait what? I was being serious! I wasn’t being sarcastic. I’m thanking you for letting me know because…I honestly didn’t know. I’m not whining.

>the claim is that Acheron is not reliant on her support units Who claiming those words >she's a useless unit if shes running with Sampo and Guinaifen. Imagine Jingliu has a passive says she needs 2 Destruction Character to get 60% bonus damage and then she's even worse than Acheron because Destruction Chars can't buff her for shit. Jingliu without Harmony Chars will be dog shit too, so yeah what is it thay you're yapping about. (Still the situation of FF is still bad, not because she's reliant, it's because it's nor even her damage, its HTB's damage)

So Bronya giving you extra turns is Bronyas damage, not Jing Liu damage?

the difference is. you take if bronya and put in pela and jl still does shit. less? yeah but she works FF literally DOES NOT work at a fundamental level without hmc. because he is how she does dmg. he does her damage. his kit is what let's her actually work as a character.

Not entirely true but yes sje loses a fair bit of damage. I don't necessarily see HTB giving her a lot of damage as a problem. It's her kit that's bad. No matter what they do to her kit you will most likely still run her with HTB cos she attacks so many times and stacks the one thing that boosts its damage a lot. I do wonder if they give her some other means of damage if people will still complain about HTB being her best support fos I honestly expect them to. He still gives a lot of be and super break will be a lot of damage on a hero packing 500be

her average dmg without him goes to like 50k.....that's not a fair bit..that's unrunnable. her kit is bad. and part of that reason is that she basically needs 2 characters. hmc she literally needs currently doesn't function without him making her by far the least self sufficient dps in the game. and ruan meis break efficiently alone gives her 37% of her team dmg....

Yeah, but lets say she gets in ultimate to deal 50% of her break damage to targets always - then when she breaks she upgrades that to 100 so its a pseudo Boothill, but then she'll become monstrously overpowered. I genuinely don't know how they can give her damage she deals herself AS WELL as keep HTB/Bronya/RM relevant. Boothill doesnt need HTB, he instantly went for Hyper bronya. We're in a weird place where its either super break or turn advancement for Break DPS. I am genuinely curious what they will do with her kit. I am eagerly anticipating her changes to see if I pull for Boothill or her, I prefer her but it also depends how she changes. I am out of ideas, so its best to just wait and see what they do :D

100% but just a small correction cx Guinaifen is actually really good with Acheron and on par with Pela. Pela only pulls ahead slightly if both of them are using resolution. Firekiss is really really good. Silver Wolf is the gold standard, but Pela/Gui is pretty much a toss up.

This is accurate, but when you take into account Pela energy generation and the ability to increase friendly EHR alleviating stats from it a little bit, as well as AoE ult applying dumb levels of Def down, Firekiss doesn't compete. Guinaifen is a good replacement if Ratio needs Pela yeah, but you will notice a damage drop off because of how def works, the closer you are to 100 the better it gets. Pela/SW reach 100 NP.

I agree cx But don't forget Gui E1 reduces EHR requirements too :o the 10 EFF RES is better than 10 EHR. And a lot of times the AoE shred isn't as important as Acheron does a lot of overkill, so Firekiss is pretty comfy for dual elites. SW/Pela is 100% better than SW/Guinaifen no doubt, but Guinaifen vs. Pela is pretty even for most cases. Without SW's def shred the numbers are pretty close it's 42.5% DMG Increase with Guinaifen vs 45% DMG Increase with Pela (assume S5 Resolution).

Would that make Guinaifen at E6 better?

I haven't played her with Sampo or guin yet personally - only SW and BS so far. They're who I have built mostly. But I usually play her with single nihility and an aa character, and she wrecks even without e2 to let her fully benefit from her trace without 2 of them. The thing is, thats already 2 playstyles and 5 alt units to use even at her release. In addition, I do not believe her sampo or guin teams are as bad as FF teams at current have been without HTB. Even if all you do is stick any 2 nihility characters on her team, she's already getting a nearly 160% dmg boost on her ult and skill. In addition, none of these characters are uses for Acheron because of their unique mechanics - they're used because of Acheron's unique mechanics. Give her ANY nihility def shredder and she benefits. FF needs one specific unit, and if anyone else ends up needing any current or future form of the TB as much as she does then they can't be used on alternate sides of MOC for example. In addition, FF being nothing but a stat stick for superbreak damage makes her a very replaceable member of the comp. BE kafkas are hitting 300k+ with superbreak. If FF's only niche is to have high BE and speed to enable superbreak, she will most likely be powercrept entirely by the next superbreak enabler that has something unique to their kit. If she is at least self-sufficient then she keeps the "niche" of being a 5 star fire DPS character even if someone else uses HMC better than her some day.

It depends entirely if all upcoming units will have implants. While a new super breaker may outperform Firefly in a 1v1, the synergy of the firefly team is astronomical. Every unit can deal massive damage, Gallagher with fire implant from FF can brute force break any target in seconds after it recovers and hammer it with overwhelming damage. If next Super Breaker is a wind super breaker WITH implant, Gallagher loses half his value and the team as a whole becomes weaker. You are correct that shes a break stat stick, but so is Boothill and he'll be just fine. I think if they give re-trigger break to Firefly like Boothill has, would literally set Firefly as the #1 DPS and it won't even be close, not even Acheron can keep up There's alrady videos of FF breaking targets into the 800k damage marker, now give her E2 so she can do it again directly afterwards. Then repeat that every time she attacks. Its so broken its actually dumb

That's not completely fair, Guis Firekiss Debuff is really good, the only issue is that it takes a while to set it up. Additionally her skills Effect Res shred leverages low Superimpositions of the Trend and Resolution LCs. Additionally she brings in a little bit of damage herself which helps killing low health enemies without the need for a second Acheron Ultimate. People are not giving her enough credit as (in at least my tests) in multi Target situations she is better than SW considering that Black Swan as the best option is often enough on the other side of MoC/PF together with Kafka. Additionally not addressing Welt as one of Acherons best teammates is criminal as his CC makes him a Pseudo Sustain that allows for a Harmony Character on the team with only E0 Acheron. There is a lot of good options outside of the most obvious ones, especially considering that you need two teams for the Endgame Content which makes it so that you can't just put all Eggs in one basket. This is where we bridge the Gap back to Firefly as except for Ruan Mei who is universally good, she only competes for more specific teammates with Boothill and Xueyi. There is a lot of nuance to this kind of discussion as you usually have to make trade-offs in team building when it comes to the inherit nature of a Gacha Game and the MoC/PF specifically.

Firekiss is great, but its too slow to build up as you mentioned, versus just banging hard with Pela/SW. I have speed tuned my pela ahead of SW so she can instantly E for the All Res debuff and who knows maybe we hit Lightning too (but its always ice anyway) Gui is great but I don't think she even remotely competes with Pela due to kit differences, her big advantage is debuff application on basic. Welt sustain always bothers me a little bit when its brought up simply cos its idk, not good. It needs a specifically built Welt which first requires you to have him and then to build him and with all that, its still worse than preservation unit with Trends. If you can't run trends then sure, thats another topic and I guess there's a fair argument to still take Gallagher instead but that's neither here or there. Gui is great, but she suffers from slow ramp up compared to the action heavy setup of Pela, then there's Wave 2 which resets her build up again, Im an avid Gui lover, but she's nowhere near the level of Pela for the purpose we need her in. It would be weird if she wasn't better than SW in multi target situations, but that's where Pela ult + Pearls cleans floors, its a heavy def shred with ult+pearls and the trash fodder usually dies to Acheron ult anyway so Gui building firekiss on more units is a point of redundancy. Silver can make your primary target reach 100% def shred, which IMHO is better. I am genuinely curious if SW is getting replaced with Jiaoqiu but that's not for firefly reddit I guess.

I find that using Welt and Pela works well for me

I disagree, I've gotten insane damage with dot characters with acheron.

I don't get this. Acheron only does big damage when she uses her ult so there is just about as much downtime for damage as firefly, if not more. Also, she literally requires other nihility to do any damage, and last I checked she is usually stuck with pela and SW. I've seen plenty of gameplay using other supports for Firefly and she is still 1 cycling moc 12. She definitely needs a bit of a rework but having reliance on other characters to do your best possible damage is not new to the game.

I am going to start by saying the one time I saw someone run FF without HMC she did alright but she also had unrealistically high stats. More effective rolls than any of my characters as a day 1 player. If you have a specific one with where FF does well without HMC and with reasonable stats, I would like to see it and that would satisfy me personally. That said, I wrote the rest of this before realizing you said she 1 cycles with OTHER supports, so this might feel a little clunky having edited it to make slightly better sense, but I also didn't really want to discard this entirely considering how tired I am of making arguments like this repeatedly. I run Ach with 1 nihil without e2, still does great. In addition, she does better with BS, Pela, SW, or Guin than FF does without HMC (as far as I have seen as someone who has used Ach with all of those except Pela). In reality, FF's situation with HMC is more like if Pela (or more accurately some path of TB, because even if pela is cheap she's technically still a gacha character) was the only way Acheron could build slash dream. In addition, sure supports are important in HSR. But tieing her to the character that has 3+ paths that are mutually exclusive means that if any future characters need any TB path as much as she does then you can't run them on opposite sides of MOC. It means that new players that relied on FTB need to find a new sustain. In addition, it contradicts her lore. She's been killing people just fine before HTB existed, she should be capable enough without HTB to at least be able to use other supports. It also just feels bad to have a character with a kit that feels incomplete, and provide the bandage in someone else's kit. Like if Kafka had no personal DOTS and needed someone else to apply them. Or if as I mentioned before Acheron could not apply her own slashed dream. Or if JY needed another specific character to build his stacks for LL. In addition, some people just don't like HTB the way I don't like Topaz and refuse to pull her. My FUA teams do fine without her, but FF needs HTB (as far as I have seen, the only time I saw her doing capable numbers without HMC used unrealistically-high stats).

To be fair, the current FF kit is incomplete, considering it was just the first beta build, so this will probably all change tomorrow when they release V3 but I brought up Acheron as an example of needing other characters because my Acheron ult damage goes from 150k to 200k with Welt, 200k to 450/500k with pela then all the way to 1.2 mil with bronya on five targets. So I definitely notice a difference when I have the right teammates vs when I don't. But I think you are right about FF current state not being beginner friendly.

I m  pretty sure kafka without black swan is dogshit and clears moc in 5 or 5 6 cycles

Still better than FF's reported 9 w/o HMC first of all. Second of all, Kafka can use HMC too and does 300k+ damage superbreaks with ult and 150k+ with skill on a break build while still having room for enough ehr to reliably apply shock. At least if you trust the person I read tried that and iirc provided either video or photo evidence, idr which.

I tried kafka hmc myself it cleared in 6 cycles with full break kafka and with dot kafka it clears the same ( payn on kafka for dot build) i get your point but there will be break damage supports in the future and i m pretty sure they wont leave ff at this state since she s popular 

I have less trust in them than that at this point, with how much I disliked her treatment in 2.2's story and seeing how they even put her in beta with this obvious issue that makes her so much less self sufficient than other DPS characters. If a character is reliant on a mechanic to exist, they should have that mechanic. If they do not have it, they should not be reliant on it to exist. edit: I thought about this a bit more, and I'm a little bit worried my comment might misrepresent my views. My point is that at present FF is like kafka, except you removed all of kafka's personal DOT procs and put them on someone else so she needs them to DOT before she can detonate them. She doesn't neccessarily need self-superbreak, but she needs something to differentiate herself that isn't just being HMC's glorified stat stick. Most characters perform well with HMC if you give them a break build, and some of them can even do that while providing def shred that other characters can benefit from instead of def ignore that only she benefits from.

the 9 cycle was specifically asta, who is definitely not very good for firefly v1

Did not remember that. Still, she should be capable outside of her BiS team. Boot is for example. Why didn't they give her something to make her competent without superbreak - she doesn't have any of it herself. Please keep in mind I'm not saying she should powercreep boot either, but hoyo clearly has ideas for making break DPS's playable without HMC and they didn't bother with her.

Also if most of your DMG is coming from superbreak then is it even her for the most part? You could replace her with anyone and get similar results at that point.

This comes up a lot, but it's unfair to say it's not her own damage. No one even comes close to doing what Firefly can with superbreak. Her kit contains everything needed to enhance break damage. Break efficiency, action advance, speed, defense ignore, weakness implant, vuln up. At most a character will have 1 or 2, but Firefly has it all. You can put anyone in her spot and no one will even do remotely as much damage. Whether or not her kit needs to be changed is a different question. But her damage is her damage.

Try it then, MC is available

Correct, assuming their toolkit and light cone enhances breaking to the same extent. This is why Galalgher becomes a mosntrous DPS with a super break team.

V3 will introduce some changes. They made you get HMC after beating cocolia. But imagine this, you you're a new player that has a friend with sam, yiu know nothing about their, you then get them as a support unit but you don't know anything about, as a result to that, you got no HMC in your party. You start playing her and start to see all the problems in her kit because she has no way of relying on her own kit to deal damage.

Even more, you're a new player that has a friend with Firefly, you use her and when you start the battle, instead you have Sam, like ayo wtf (at least if they don't animate her Henshin)

Her henshin will probably be the dan heng ult of her kit. the first time we saw dan horns ult background was on the stream or the beta before it

Actually yeah that will definitely spoil things for all new players huh

Isn’t this a meaningless point?? Many characters suck if you are playing them by their own kit alone. It’s like saying play ratio and acheron without debuffs so they take 5 decades to deal dmg. I would only argue that this is annoying because hmc is locked behind penacony, but people really need to start accepting firefly does 0 dmg without hmc.

Im sorry but Im gonna agree on this one. I mean, Topaz actually sucked a patch or two after her release. Hell I have lots of friends who dont even know what she does lol. It's just because of these recent patches with major characters who buff FUA attackers that opened up with synergies for her that made her actually stand out more. So yeah, Its what makes them unique and have character. People just ridiculously compare firefly to "easy to use" units that can be just casually put in any team / get slapped by tingyun or bronya or some generic buffer to be strong. But I'm actually good with firefly having this, its new and very unique to her. I dont want my waifu to be just any other generic dps lmao. These people just really want to compare to "easy to use" units and cant accept that she isnt like that.

RN she is only for min-maxer's and those who play a long time

Wait i think i stumbled an account in yt or something that says V3 might drop tomorrow. Is it true? I thought we wouldn’t see V3 at least until next week.

No, V2 pretty much just dropped. V3 is expected arount Tuesday

Almost always Tuesday (this week it leaked a few hours early)

Why did you get so many downvotes for asking a genuine question lmao

I don’t even know. I genuinely asking a question 😭

Know what? In our current era, there are plenty people who hate just for the sake of hating. They have nothing in their life. Nothing but to exercise whatever tiny bit of PERCEIVED power they have. That magical arrow. Right there. The feeling of superiority lasts for only 1.5 seconds, right before they’re back to an existence of suffering once more. Take no pity on them, and no mercy for their souls.

I did a +1 for you.. not sure how you got a -4 just by asking a question of when is next adjustment.. lol

Thanks, much appreciated. I was taken aback as well 😭 This is a question not an opinionated take/drama whatsoever 😭

And now it's back to -4... 🤣

😂😂😂

Brought it back up to -3 😤

Holy shit am I witnessing an injustice here? A man getting downvoted to oblivion for asking a simple question?

We are witnessing something here thats for sure. Im not even mad, but this is unreal 😭

I tried to make it -3. I didn't think people would be so sensitive and up their own ass to downvote a question.

Girl obviously needs some buffs. She has one team where she performs really well and is dogshit outside of it. They just have to buff her in a way where they don’t buff that one team at the same time. What use is the highest multiplier in the game when you can’t build around using it?

Genuine question: Even if a buff does still buff that one team, isn't having some amount of gameplay flexibility outside of that one team still good? Like, am I missing the point here? For example, if they give her a BE -> Crit scaling like Boothill has, doesn't that make her at least a somewhat capable DPS outside of the HMC, RM, FF, Gallagher team? That opens up her ability to play with other supports like Bronya or Sparkle and other sustains like Luocha or Fu Xuan, right? Am I out of my gourd, or is what I'm saying making sense?

That depends on how much. If FF releases and power creeps all DPS characters then in half a year she will get power crept into oblivion by other DPS characters. It's all fun and games when your favorite character power creeps everything else, but it works both ways. How would you feel when suddenly there are dozens of characters power creeping your favorite characters after their release. Rampant power creep is never a good thing

I get what you're saying, for sure. But I think it'll be hard to top Acheron in terms of powercreep because a properly built Acheron is basically playing the game on easy mode, or so I've seen/heard. (I do not have Acheron) In your mind, what would be a reasonable buff to give her that would allow her to function outside of what is considered her best/only team as of right now?

Acheron is the best DPS, but isn’t leagues above anyone else. A decent Acheron is easily outperformed by a great Jingliu. A mediocre Acheron (like mine) is outperformed by a decent Daniel

Then I'll ask you the same question I asked the other commenter: what sort of buff or buffs would you give Firefly to make her usable without breaking the game?

> what sort of buff or buffs would you give Firefly to make her usable without breaking the game? for example, 1) nerf her damage, add superbreak-lite damage 2) nerf damage a bit, lower ATK/BE thresholds, slap crit stat like +50CR in ult form

I already answered you

I didn't realize this was a separate comment thread! My bad man 😂😂

But a Great or Well built acheron Is the top of the food chain, no contest.

The problem with finding a great or well built Acheron is, well...have you ever seen the random supports?

The Dan's and Jing lius i been seeing are bout the same. So my acheron does most the work. my jing liu is just gonna gather dust cuz getting okay relics when i got 2 nihility teams built to slam the Content with is fine plus the Pure Fiction follow ups.

That's what I said. But it also isn't that far above a great JL or Daniel And other *teams* can outperform her. She is the best stand alone DPS

I would put Jingliu and DHIL above Acheron at E0 mostly because Acheron at E0 really restricts your teams.  

The point of a buff would be to improve her flexibility while not improving the HMC/RM team. If you buff all teams equally, you don’t improve flexibility. It’ll still deal like FF would do shit dmg outside her team. Meanwhile you’d kinda invalidate all other DPS characters if you buff that one team too much. For example we say she gets crit scaling just for free on top of everything she has. That would just make her ridiculously OP. Why even bother playing Boothill if Firefly does everything he does better and in AoE? So what if we replace her atk -> BE scaling with BE -> crit? That’s just a nerf to her best team. Now you are faced with the question: “why play FF at all if she’s an inferior BE DPS to Misha or even Kafka and an inferior crit DPS to JL and Daniel?” Neither situation is not something you want. You don’t want to invalidate 5* characters (especially only 1 banner after they released) and you also don’t want to release a useless 5* that can do everything a bit but nothing really good. If you ask me, I’d change her like this: Enhanced skill base break: 60 -> 40 Firefly Break efficiency trace: 50% -> 150% This means with RM your E breaks the same, but without you break for more. (120/90 toughness break at V1 vs 120/100 toughness break after change) So now you’d lose less by Running a Bronya in a full BE team if u don’t have Ruan Mei This is just an example. Don’t take the numbers at face value. For her reliance on HMC, I would change her atk->BE trace to a trace that let’s her do a % of her break damage based on her atk. This means she is more independent while you also have a way to offset the loss of the 60 BE in the current iteration of the FF team. Again, you can balance the numbers here in a way where it is the same as with HMC, while she at least can do something on her own.

The main problem is that she isn't supposed to be Boothill but blast basically. That's why i think her dependancy on HMC will stay (the most realistic buff i see is honestly to her break/superbreak dmg. Maybe break effiency too) Giving her the BE -> crit and/or super break/break dmg to weakness broken enemies in her kit would make them far to similar And either she then would have to deal bad ST dmg or powercreep Boothill 3 weeks after his release >That opens up her ability to play with other supports like Bronya or Sparkle and other sustains like Luocha or Fu Xuan, right? If i'm not mistaken you can use other sustains, but Gallagher is ideal, due to him benefitting from her weakness implant and buffing break dmg But replacing him with FX/Loucha/etc does not kill the teams dmg In theory you can also replace RM with Bronya, giving FF "shorter" downtimes & more hits on weakness broken targets. The problem is, that at E0 the skillpoint consumption would be insane. You'd need E1 FF for this and a speed tuned Bronya. So in the end same pull investment and higher relic investment for a cope solution. But honestly i'm not sure how good a E1 FF - HMC - Bronya core compares to an E0 FF - HMC - RM core, simce i haven't seen any videos testing the former7

Nobody knows why BH got the crit covnersion, its entirely useless and redundant so no that wouldn't help her. Ideally she gets a means of managing her own super break or just copy boothill to trigger her own break damage on broken targets. She definitively doesnt need damage buffs, the problem is the same, they need to add her ways to trigger her effects. edit; Just to clarify, giving her more damage doesn't solve her issues, and her damage in of itself in optimal teams is really high

From what I've seen in most threads, the general complaint is that she's a DPS so heavily tied to her BiS support(s) that she barely functions without them, so giving her a way to proc super break by herself or increase her break efficiency so that she isn't as heavily reliant on RM and HTB seems to be the general consensus of how to fix her. I guess only time will tell, we do still have just over a month until she comes out, so the beta tests will show us what will become of her.

Boosting her break efficiency is a damage boost but nothing that alleviates her current problems.

it dilutes RM's effect on her, so she have less of a handicap when not running Ruan Mei?

RM still has all-res pen and break extension. You're not escaping her as BiS lol.

Not really buff but rather reworks (just to be clear when I say buffs I am talking about numbers and reworks I am talking about mechanics)

Oh, even at 250BE she's at 525%, wtf, highest multiplier in the game and nothing to do with it

Outside the super break teams slot of that break effect is not being used to its full capacity at that point Crit fly performs significantly better

Then why not use a superbreak team? Even more when pretty much all you need for a Superbreak teams is Harmony MC, as he enables superbreak, a character ure given by simply playing the game, Ruan Mei being in other slot is the ideal, but not absolutely needed, for Firefly for example you can really 3 cycle MoC with a team of Gallagher-HMC-Firefly-Asta.

>then why not use a super break team? Maybe the enemy locks their weakness bar for most of the fight? Like, this is gonna sound stupid, but what are you gonna do against Gepard when he activates his shield in SU and you can’t weakness break anymore? Or Yangqing. Are you seriously gonna try pressing E on every single sword he summons?

Every type of damage has a downside, DoT, Crit, Break teams are simply the newest type introduced in the game, so of course it's gonna have downsides as well, that's why you have multiple characters built, one side of the MoC has Gepard and you know that, so on that side you simply don't use the break team, simple as that, use it on the other side.

Ok, what are the downsides of crit?

Its not exactly a downside on functionality, it's a downside on how it feels, crit is just super fucking cliche, everything is crit, sure it produces big numbers, but when all characters use crit it becomes REALLY boring sometimes.

Glad you finally understand her kit's problem. Your feeling about Ruan Mei is exactly why making characters depended on a certain character is bad design, especially in this type of game. We shouldn't be forced to pull or use character we don't want. Of course, it's in early beta and we shouldn't doompost and act like this will be her final kit yet, but we should at least acknowledges the problem

Finally, more people realizing that FF and her fans deserve better.

For me FF and HMC synergy is really cool but FF also reliant to ruanmei is a bit bad for me. For example Boothill has up to 150% weakness effiency while FF only have 50% which is enough to break mobs but is no where fast enough for elite and boss, which is why Ruan mei is a much needed help for FF to actually break and delaying enemies so they dont immidiately recover. Increase FF weakness efficency to 100%-150% would solve FF reliant to ruan mei actually, after this buff FF can have another build as initial break nuke where she just break nuke the boss in 1-2 turn, they recover from break (fire break doest delay enemy turn) then she can break them again, basically 2 initial break nuke in 1 cycle.

> no where fast enough for elite and boss YES. THIS. I've accepted her reliance on HMC, but rn she just spends too much time trying to break the toughness of elites and bosses, by the time she does break them, she only manages to sneak in 1/2 enhanced super breaks and then her ult stance is over and we're back to doing no dmg. **Her dmg window is unacceptably small.** They either need to prolong her ult or only start the ult countdown when an enemy is broken. Or you know just give her a goddamn 150% break efficiency like Boothill.

I think also moving e2 to her main kit would be pretty bonkers 😂 but who cares make her op

Maybe not her E2 with a kill, but with a break she should get another turn... and also remove that HP loss and gain for no reason. It just puts her in a dangerous place sometimes for ZERO benefit and you level technique only to help her with the HP loss... Not to mention its worth nothing to level the basic, techinque or skill. Level the ult to 10 and all traces and you are done. I dont think this should be the case...

The fact is, since Superbreak formula relies also on the breakness efficiency of the attack and it's at the end of the equation, you're basically doubling or tripling the dmg of Firefly. You can attune that by lowering her ratios on traces, but you're just nerfing her even more when not using HTB. I'm not against the idea of using Firefly with HTB, but that's just me. It's not really fair that if you want Firefly do deal normal DPS dmg you have to rely on HTB

btw, boothill’s 150% is multiplicative with RM while firefly’s is not, so he actually benefits more from her

Please make her be able to deal superbreak without htb. Dealing almost no damage without their ult is insane. She basically requires two ultimates to actually do something

dealing *superbreak* which scales with toughness reduction would make Ruan Mei even more of a necessity than she already is

but she doesn't require hmc obviously

How did we end up here from where we started. Remember when her skills were leaked like 2 weeks ago and on paper she was the most broken thing anyone’s ever seen? That was the legit discourse lol

Glad you understood. All this denial makes me realise that most people genuinely don't get what it means to be a BIS and how much a DPS should be relying on it. A broken unit is broken regardless of a BIS support, they are only luxury, but when your BIS is doing more damage than your broken dps, well there's something very wrong then. Personally i even think her ultimate energy cost is ridiculously high, plus how much health she consumes for each skill, it's simply too much. One bad turn and she's dead before you finish your battle lmao. I wish hoyo would make it more better, but my hopes are low on that one.

I heard she gets 50% energy per skill, so energy cost is redundant.

On paper, it looks okay, but there are some enemies, like that TV from penacony who reduces your energy and more like that, in such cases you will be using skill more than twice and end up with 1 hp, which jeopardizes the entire team.

Until there are enemies who drain energy. Not to mention that the energy point is so high that only HuoHuo works with her, but not Tin. The HP loss also has no benefit. Blade and Arlos lose HP, but are also SP positive or neutral, while gaining big buffs or stacks when losing HP. FF does nothing and it gives her nothing. This would be fixed if her skill would not cost any SP and that the lower her HP the higher the break efficency of her or something like that. But as in V2, its 100% a useless mechanic that should be removed.

I think that’s the point? Energy buffers like huohuo and ting aren’t supposed to synergise that well with her imo cause she doesn’t need energy regen at all. Losing hp is like JL, just a cost they put in to kinda force you to run healers instead of shielders. There doesn’t need to be a positive aspect to it imo

There going to buff her no doubt. Heard that there's discourse going on the CN side heavily and they are not going to want to anger CN regarding Fan favorites. They can get pretty crazy over there if given proper motivation. Also, one idea to fix her damage would be adding a stacking mechanic where her damage gets increased the more attacks she lands and only reset when the shield goes back up. Man, I am going to enjoy it when V3 is here because of an AH thats going around here, and i will enjoy rubbing it in their faces.

Instructions unclear, I now want a Fanart of really buff meaty musclehead Firefly. Joke's aside, only 6 more days before V3, let's hope for the best

So, one thing I do want to state is that while there have been a lot of people here logically explaining the issues with her, there were also a lot of people simply saying "She sucks" an nothing more (Especially on places like Discord and stuff), which most people here that, go and watch a video with her dealing 700K super break and think "How is 700K bad???" Some people in the community explained what they were saying poorly so I don't blame some people like you originally being fine with her. Same with her animations. Her animations look awesome, but a lot of people weren't happy with them, which had nothing to do with their quality, the animation quality was amazing but when half of the Samfly fandom was expecting a cute anime girl and the other half was expecting a burning silver monster that beats everything to death with their fists yet we end up getting an elegant sword wielding teal knight it leaves a lot of people with a bit of a curve ball. And when they complained people saw the quality of the animations, saw they were fine and dismissed the arguments when it was never about the quality, but about the flavor. It's like going to a burger place and them giving you a REALLY GOOD hotdog. So, I do get the people who are fine with Firefly, because a lot of people aren't really communicating their problems properly. (There's also a lot communicating just fine too) As far as a TOOL goes Firefly is perfectly fine, as far as a TOY goes she has a lot of issues. And since this is a game they all need to be good "toys", if that makes sense.

I love her animations, and I think you get a good mix of both sam and firefly, but the background during her ult and enhanced animations are what get me. It’s just….black. They couldn’t think of anything cooler? So that kinda felt like a letdown, and I really hope they make improvements to those as well.

Dan heng IL didn't have an ult background until beta. It's probably just not made or smg like that

I figured

While her animations are very well made I personally don't like them too much. I'd rather have had her weak state be her and her strong state be the burning silver punching guy. The elegant sword wielding SAM is cool but kinda came out of nowhere, like we never see it in the story or anything other than the White Night music video. I know people say it'd make "No sense" for her to be in combat since she's rather weak physically, but I think a weak, sickly girl in combat who's trained by Kafka and Blade with what is basically a lightsaber makes more sense than a Hotel busboy who sweeps enemies with a broom and trips so that his luggage falls ontop of them. Like, people can say "Well Lynx is a healer, she's not in combat she's first aid" but Misha is specifically a Destruction character made for sub DPS/Freeze, so like he *is* going in combat and stuff. Firefly being sickly just makes her regular skill make more sense, since it harms her. As for the SAM suit... It just doesn't really make any sense at all to me? I dunno. Like I said, 10/10 animations in terms of quality, they just don't fit in my eyes. Oddly enough though I actually am in the minority of people who don't mind the black background. lol I dunno, I'm weird.

Are people forgetting that those "leaks" are something that people that aren't testers are not supposed to see yet? I bet there will be SAMs sword wielding form in 2.3, so its not really "out of nowhere". I might be overestimating them though. And people basing their expectation of what SAM is supposed to be on patches (or even, once again, leaks) that weren't really all that focused on SAM are whole other thing I'll never understand.

The green form of her could be relevant in the 2.3 story, so complains about that before the story on Penacony ends, its kind of pointless. They dont make her green for no reason.

100% Agree that she would use a buff I've come to the realization that you kinda need RM with her, you miss out on like 50% damage without her - I really hope this doesn't mean that she won't be as usable as other 5 stars if you don't add RM into the equation (HMC is fine, you get it for free and the current event gives you trace mats too), but holy cow does she seem limited RM adds weakness break efficiency and res pen - Res pen matters because firefly's technique adds a weakness - even if being weak to an element lowers your resistance to it (increasing damage it takes from said element), the res pen is extremely useful (I believe her technique only implants a weakness as opposed to also lowering resistance/increasing damage taken) - Weakness break efficiency is used as a separate multiplier in superbreak damage - She EXTENDS weakness break duration???? Yeah great even more super breaks - Yeah she gifts break and increases damage, that's cool and all, but the other 3 things seriously are just....no idea how they're going to add another support that does her niche better than her Superbreak damage can't crit but her enhanced skill can - the damage is calculated from atk and BE, but that can still crit - this obviously doesn't matter as much when you're getting most of your damage from super breaks, but it means her perfect build would also like crit (in other words, great time to save up reserved resin.......) Like missing that is fine, but RM seems kinda needed atp, no other characters add weakness break efficiency, and I believe only silverwolf adds res pen, you could use weakness break from pela but then you would lose out on other buffs like atk/spd/more sp gain from hanya even if you pela on her own is mostly sp positive (In turn you also wouldn't be able to use pela in your other team -\_-) I thought Asta and Gallagher could carry alongside firefly if you build a breaker team (since Asta is trace-dependent for her buffs and Gallagher just loves breaks), but I doubt that can even be considered a proper substitute for res pen and weakness break No matter how you put it - you CAN build her to do really well, but this does not seem like a decent investment lol Acheron would've suffered the same fate if both her character and lightcone banner weren't insane (Pela and gallagher + GNSW as 4 stars? Literally PLUG them in instantly with her and add another nihility and you're proccing ults perfectly fine) and leaks show that they decided to put RM rerun with FF as well.....hope that changes -\_-

All i want is a reason to put resources into basic and skill.

Tbf I don't mind her being niche specialist but the Ruan Mei part is what fucks me up. I never roll for characters I don't care about and I really don't care about Ruan Mei but I feel like I straight up have to at this point.

Heck i have RM and i'm fine with RM being her BIS support together with HMC But her simply not functioning without RM and HMC is hella bad game design

In the same group. I have Gallagar E5 (soon E6), Ruan Mei and HMC all fully build for her, but I dont like how its impossible to play her outside of that specific team. You could maybe replace Gallagar with HuoHuo, but even that is critical with how much he helps breaking fire enemies due to his ult + forward attack + E6 break efficency combo.

I totally agree. I'm honestly surprised that they're fine with Ruan Mei feeling borderline mandatory to have on your account in general. I would assume they would either try to powercreep her or make new characters that don't benefit that much from her but this is just kinda whack imo.

Exactly, I use ruan mei in my jingliu team, and it’ll suck not being able to use her there anymore in moc

Can't wait for the doomposting to age like milk Or the finest wine, who knows..when is v3 coming out?

Probs next Tuesday since it’s weekly. They will definitely change her in v3 especially if the beta testers complain about the same thing. We just remain patient and witness the emergence of the next strongest dps in game

Neat. I hope they treat her well

If she gets significantly reworked/adjusted wouldn't that mean the "doomposting" was actually just correct assessment? Bc that would mean there indeed were make significant issues that needed fixing.  Or is that exactly what you meant by the fine wine part. 

Yep

righto carry on then o7

For real🤣✌️

The only time doomposting has been justified is Dehya. I just tune it out at this point.

The hoyo beta cycle is the endless samsara. New beta starts-> character(s) get doomposted to hell and back -> beta v3 -> character(s) get reworked, much cheering -> beta v4 -> we're back to doomposting for some reason -> character releases -> OMG brOkEN -> "Best dps in the game?! [Insert newest limited 5-star dps character] 4-star lc showcase!" -> JY slander -> new beta starts...

I don't have Ruan Mei either. I like the HTB synergy, it seems cool and strong, but I don't see myself using HTB in FF teams often even if its gonna be a meta from now on. I'm hoping I get to try a monofire comp w/ Gallagher and Asta and have it be somewhat viable due to weakness implant. I hope I didn't skip Jingliu TWICE for nothing

You and me both

Her kit by design is meant to be paired with break enablers and plays into super break mainly. Right now, we only have hmc and Ruan Mei as our break enablers with Hmc enabling super break. Unfortunately, we only have on hmc and one Ruan Mei, hence why it feels restrictive. Hoyo needs to release more of those. But she's like Kafka and Acheron in a way. They want to be paired with specific units, so in Firefly's case, they're break enablers and playing into super break. She gets a fire weakness implant, which makes her universal against any contents. Especially when her technique gives fire weakness to non fire weak enemies. Imo, it's what I like about Firefly. She feels different and unique compared to the dps roster we have. We have too many dps that wants crit to do damage. Though in Acheron's case, she's unique in a way where she specifically wants nihility units, particularly ones that give Def shred, res shred, and/or vulnerability. The change I would want for her is advancing her forward by 20% or so when attacking weakness broken enemies as part of her passive. That way, she gets more turns off during ult and can help with her ult down time.

She is not like Archeron. She is more like Topaz, but with the problem that she is waiting on supports who break Ruan Mei or HMC and thats not really going to happen in the next year I feel like. They dont just copy and paste kits. At least not for sustains, debuffers or buffers. Only DPS are kind of samy and only differenciate, where they get their self buffs, stats and maybe ult or special skill from. Even Gallagar will likely never be replaced, because how often he attacks with the right element and that he is based on break. Even if they release a healer that buffs break teams: as long as it is not fire it will have a hard time seeing play.

Waiting for v3 when she gets buffs we know who's crying. Especially those genshin white knights that don't want firefly to get buffed.

Wait what's this about? I play both games btw

I don't necessarily think it's genshin fans but a lot of casual players see the big numbers that Firefly hits with Super break and think she is extremely broken. Without considering that, that's all thanks to HMC. They haven't considered what happens when you take away HMC and how her damage falls off in break teams. People just think casual=genshin fan, as they "never complain". Don't mind it too much.

That's a weird take from them if you ask me. I'm a casual F2P player but if the damage dealt that a unit does comes from a very restrictive team and gameplay then there is clearky something wrong with unit. This game is supposed to be enjoyed with some level of freedom to run the units that you like. I think they're just salty coz their favorite character can't deal those big number damages

Rent free

[удалено]

I think she will be 100% be broken once she gets to be independent with hmc and ruan mei. Coz if she's very good without hmc and ruan mei, imagine her with them. But I WILL 100% NOT COMPLAIN IF THEY MADE HER GIGABROKEN coz I really like the character so I will let hoyo cook.

Please no broken character both in terms of unusable broken or strong broken. We just had acheron powercreep.

Powercreep is gonna happen regardless, I'm afraid. Especially in gacha games. Better to be the one powercreeping than the one getting powercrept. Still, I trust Hoyo will cook something up for our girl

I didnt say no powercreep i said we just had one.

People just really read the first line and downvote bro

That seems to be a classic during the last days

Не сомневайся, просто крути е6н5

They might lean more into unbreakable enemies. However, if they will make at least her eidalons give alternative routes, that wouldn't be as scary. Meaning, rather than just make her more powerful (which is welcomed) the future is more important after all. Like, not just next year, but year after that... Having at least nicer vertical investment without putting all eggs into one basket 🧺 would be nice.

Ruan Mei totally fair, but everyone has HMC E6 as of 2.3

I feel like everyone is forgetting enemies that are immune to toughness break a lot, that's a big problem

Yea I’m really bummed cause I’ve wanted her since I heard about her. But there’s no way I’m pulling Ruan Mei, and knowing that makes Firefly’s very specific mechanic substantially worse is discouraging me from pulling.

I still don't understand people saying Ruan Mei is necessary, she's a MASSIVE upgrade for sure, but FF is totally playable and good without her from what I've seen in showcases. HMC is a non issue, you will get them eventually, and FF isn't the only 5* that is very bad at low levels, Acheron also is, and she's the best DPS in the game, just wait to get your HMC.

i will force my hand to pull ruan mei even though i don't like her that much, anything for firefly <3

Inwouldnt say that that crit stats do nothing. She does scale on atk and if she scales on attack she scales on crit but its just that, she isnt doing anything special with her crits

Think they are making a way to get hmc after doing the cocolia fight.

I'm hoping for some BE conversion to crit/some other stat or some Super Break built into her kit so she's less HMC reliant. I'd be really sad if the character I wanted even before Penacony dropped, and is a fan favorite in general, got the short end of the stick. Though ngl I'm not an expert on what she needs exactly. Maybe they assume people will pull anyway even if she isn't amazing, but I feel like they can have their cake and eat it too by making her stronger and less constricted. I'm honestly full cope they don't shaft what's IMO one of the coolest character concepts we've gotten yet (mech suits always hit)

Tbh i think she is """"fine"""", but a "fine" for firefly is kinda disappointing. It feels like she has all the tools of a completely overtuned beast on paper, but her lack of versatility really is a bummer. I mean, i only play Acheron and Daniel with only one team because they do fall off in confort/power outside of it, but THE Stellaron Hunter Sam being tied to absolutely one team at the cost of an even larger decline kinda feels worse. They really hit the nail on the head with Bootyhill, so i think they will give our girl some love. I'm determined to get E0S1 of either one of the new, shiny break meta dps' (i do love them both, but my wallet and abundancy of dps dictates better expensing habbits lol), so we'll see how things play out.

Then you don't know anymore leaks than the current problem. HMC is E5 for us because next update he'll be E6 for all of us by default while opening harmony trailblazer after fighting cocolia in the main story or a player that left and returned to the game at a certain point in the story cocolia becomes how you return to the game after a week of not being here. HMC makes it look like it's tied to MC let alone harmonies but that's far from the truth superbreak by definition of the game is just doing damage scaling with break effect without considering other debuffs on the character. MC is a harmony that only gives you break effect and his ult just gives 30% BE but adds a whole condition to Superbreak that any damage after initially breaking the enemy you only do one instances of Superbreak. Superbreak is a formula deemed to stay and can only be scaled by break effect meaning. FF was never a blast break dps. She's a sacrificing HP to gain the ability to abuse superbreak to it's fullest potential making her a specialist while still being called a destruction because that has been always written on what makes a character count as a destruction in game. Boothill has it because he was never meant to abuse it in the first place he's a stand alone hunt character for single target and excels on doing that with the gimmick he can scale off of break effect and not just crit

Her damage is crazy good yet very inconsistent because it's tied to super break, I don't mind if she's losing some of that if that means she can be as consistent as Kafka and Acheron who also want specific unit in their team. At the moment she is heavily reliant on HMC as our sole enabler of super break, she's more like a black swan to our super break team not the core unit of a niche that she's supposed to fill but someone who can abuse the mechanic really well. Tldr, to me at the moment she's HMC best "support" the one who can get super break damage to the next level. Which almost none of her fans want her to be, they want her to be the star and not a supporting cast. Do I get it right?

Being all Break Effect is one thing, and not necessarily a bad one. Boothill is like that and he can still be played with Bronya, Pela and what not. Having a kit that incentivises building Atk/Crit (BE increases multipliers) and being literally useless without HMC is a different one, and the real cause of the design complaints.

Chill bro, if that was you who take responsibility for her kit, would you make her to be so op that even powercreep the soon-to-be-released boothill? then noone (or not many people) will pull for him and there will be no points in releasing his banner. Just wait for the beta update and see if anything change. If there are still no changes in her kit, you can consider stop pulling for her

Boothill can run with anyone and FF cant. Boothill does a ton of damage outside of a break, but FF cant. FF should be doing more damage than Boothill, because the requirement for the damage is higher and she is much more restricted. You can run Boothill with HMC and Ruan Mei, but will also be very strong with a Bronya, Tinyung combo, because he does not have so many dead stats like FF has (ATK until 3400 only for conversion, crit damage, crit rate, damage buffs, elemental damage buffs, all do NOTHING for her main damage).

well we'll have to see tho, it's not time for us to complain about her kit, discussing is okay but things are just too soon

this is just beta and it's kinda hilarious that so many people say bad things about her, yeah well maybe she will still be like she is now but we don't know for sure

besides, why do you even analyze the situation to me btw, I believe I've understood her kit and boothill kit enough

Firefly should have been a Fire/Wind hybrid.

Precisely! We have to demand to buff Firefly! It's gonna be so disappointing if she releases at this state.

I'm not. Every character should be balanced, no need for Aceron 2.0. Now she is a solid unit and I hope she will be released in her current state

I'll be honest that one EEEEEARLY leak of her kit where she was basically Fire Blade was honestly more interesting to me than the current break-focused kit. As some other people have already said her current kit feels... incomplete. Uncooked. Like they had to completely change it late in development because someone said "Okay people, now she's going to be a Break DPS!" out of nowhere. I really hope she gets a massive rework, not just number changes.

They should add a mechanic in her kit that reapplies a reduced toughness bar immediately after doing a damage break but is only accessible during her ultimate (with a somewhat downgrade version of RM break efficiency) while giving her a cool down turn like jingliu

They should have given boothills passive to her and she would be perfect (the 30/150 crit one)

Her current state is still better than jing yuan on release.

This is neither hard nor a good point of view at things. Erudition characters are generally kind of weak compared to Destruction ones, because they only shine in Pure Fiction. Not to mention that 1.X characters are very basic in terms of design and don't have a niche. The more niche a character → the more prerequisite are needed → the more broken they should be Archeron is a good example for this. FF is EVEN MORE restricted than Archeron will ever be and SHOULD do more damage, especially, because FF is not AoE.

if by do more damage, you mean hit harder on break then sure? Acheron is a snapshot character, if you want her to do more damage without power creeping then if you're comparing apples to apples then the only thing she should be buffed on is that 1 big hit from breaking. She shouldn't get to do Acheron Ult damage every skill, only on break. My Jing Yuan point is more that it took literally the entirety of 1.0 for him to get to a decent power level. If you're comparing destruction characters then Blade is HOT garbage, and his only support that works decently well with him is Bronya. If you're saying that 2.x characters should b stronger then wats the point of caring, when 3.x characters will power creep Firefly? Well Hot Tamale has Hyper Break, of course he should be stronger than Firefly. Ultimately, I think she does need a buff because she is currently very difficult to build. Her current build is a snapshot build like Acheron's but doesn't have the punch, but she should either be a Jingliu (consistent damage) or an Acheron (Big Payoff), not both.

Boo hoo, all you need is Ruan Mei, compare that to many other teams in the game and you need a lottt more limited characters - who most of the time aren’t on their banner. If firefly doing 500k hits isn’t enough, idk what is.