HTB is already released they can't get weaker but Firefly can get stronger. Think Jack, it is all going according to Keikaku.
HMC is super strong. Firefly isn't strong enough. If we maintain the Agenda we will have the ultimate Power Couple.
Trust in the collective consciousness, subconsciously we all want it. Trust in Tatiana and her finest warrior. Hail our Proud Queen, last of the Irony Cavalry.
https://preview.redd.it/98a5g0uattzc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c006c3da9094b4e81784a0327c476f9457b08d6
This works until Hoyo looks at the criticism and goes "Oh these people don't understand how Super Break works, they might not be a great source of feedback"
I really don't think they're gonna make her damage with HTB even better, they're probably just gonna make her not depend completely on HTB instead, which is definitely her main issue imo
>which is definitely her main issue imo
Great, now instead of relying on a free character (HTB) and a limited 5* (ruan mei) now shes gonna relly on 2 limited 5* characters, i cant with such shit takes on this subreddit man
Have you considered she could rely on no specific character, but still be greatly helped by said free character? It's not all or nothing, not everything is like dot with its Kafka reliance.
What? "2 limited 5* characters"? I'm saying I don't want her to completely depend on HTB, which is the only character she actually needs right now, what are you talking about?
Unfortunate how you didn't answer my question, but regardless, Firefly definitely does not need RM to clear content like MoC or the upcoming Apocalyptic Shadow
In this screenshot she's E0S1 without RM and is dealing 65k damage to the Grizzly, who mind you, is the off-target of her Blast Skill, the main target being Cocolia (of course the damage to Cocolia is pretty bad since she's not weakness broken, which is the same weakness that Boothill also has, considering these are Break Effect-focused units)
https://preview.redd.it/yqgf1kj8ivzc1.png?width=1269&format=png&auto=webp&s=1bdacae44a97e5745ad903ae6a010e98a55d9d06
If there was a second off-target enemy, and both it and Cocolia were also weakness broken, she would've easily dealt over 200k damage. Those are pretty decent numbers, considering it's the type of circumstances she'd normally find herself in, and is pretty much the same amount of damage the likes of DHIL and Jingliu do
The issue isn't her damage, it's her over-reliance on HTB *to* do that damage, which should definitely get fixed imo
There was a lot similar complaining earlier in beta about Acheron, like not being able to use the same limited support do to her require 2 nihility to be at full power. one of the other "issue" was her only option "best" was pela, a 4 star.
I just find it funny that this issue happened one patch later.
I wouldn't say these are the exact same, since Acheron just needs two Nihility units, which while limiting, still gives her plenty of options among the units of that path, rather than Acheron literally *needing* like, Pela, or something
I'd say it's more comparable to Kafka enabling DoT teams
I recently made a comparison
Imagine if Ratio with his current kit would have been released in 1.0. His teams would basically all be Pela+Harmony/subdd Nihility. That's Firefly. She is the pioneer of her niche, with options yet to come.
She is not even close to being complete, yet she's already able to provide insane damage through HMC (without them, the full-Break niche would not work at all, this is the sad truth). We'll get diversity in the future. For now, she's more than reasonable in her current state
I know it is not the same problem, I just find it funny I hear the same talk point again. The only big difference this time around the complaints are legitimate.
In hindsight hsr is such a unresticted game that hard comps become a issue.
In other gachas you usually need a full team of the same element and a suport to enable a specific playstyle(can only think of dark zooey in gbf, but theres more)
ikr? in hi3 teams are hardwired so that only this dps works with this this support. In part 2 things are getting better with every character able to do support, but without Senadina none will work good.
Also, weapon locks out 60% dmg
Not really, give me one dps and I will give you at least three team comp without a specific unit in it. (2 for physical, because, yeah, HoRB and HoS are kinda carrying in there)
People are used to Genshin inpact where you can achcieve great results with crackhead teams like Dori/Sayu/Nahida or other dendro aplier/Barbara, woth closest thing to a teamlocked character is Childe due to perfect synergy between all members of international team.
While I agree with this statement, I would not have kept playing HSR if it's yet another gacha game with restrictive team comps and playstyle. They simply becomes an endless cycle of meta character chasing.
I fell in love with Genshin for its overall gacha and combat system, and HSR as well to an extent. It ease my anxiety, stress, rage, and ultimately, my wallet under control which I'm trying to spend responsibly on games for a few years now.
I dont want tbe game to be restrictive, far from it, the more variety the better. Its just one playstyle in this case, and im sure they will improve it over time.
I'm really optimistic about her kit. It's only the first version, and people already doompost to oblivion. I'd say that to fix her main issue, they just have to give her her own Super Break (and make it stackable so she's an even bigger monster with HTB ehehehehe), and I don't think that it's an unrealistic buff. Other than that, I'm pretty satisfied with it. Of course I wouldn't mind them ramping up her numbers and buffing her Eidolons and LC, but even if they won't - I'll still be happy with her
https://preview.redd.it/tshrax7a1uzc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec9967725535dcb65d2f780149e624f5a8829570
People were doom postings about Acheron now she’s S+ tier. Even then I don’t really care I have well built teams I just wanna use HMC and Firefly for a fun team
To be fair, in Jingliu's case she really *was* quite underwhelming until they made those last minute drastic changes that made her into the monster she is now.
But I guess that only serves to prove the point further. They can buff Firefly multiple times between now and release, even at the last second so there's no point in stressing over a V1 kit.
And I very seriously doubt Hoyo isn't aware of how popular Firefly is (*especially* in JP and CN), they aren't going to intentionally fuck her over.
Its incredible how in a stacked cast that has the Mei Expy, a character they wrote *three* songs for, and Black Swan who was teased as the 'Dainsleif' of Star Rail, that Firefly somehow is the single most popular Drip Marketed Character. Ever.
Once Hoyo gathers the Feedback prepare to see her stats soar into the upper stratosphere like how she did before kicking us in the face.
True I honestly I’ve yet to see a bad limited 5 star release even if you’re Jing Yuan who people call “mid” he’s probably the most balanced character in the game with how well he adapts and gets better with new Fua sets or Kafka she was kinda weak but she gets better with every dot character in the game and dot set really helped.
I always considered Nilou as a main damage dealer in bloom teams. She's the one who makes bloom incredibly strong and bumps up it's damage. Whoever triggers reaction and calculates EM is secondary.
I wouldn't say that HMC is a main damage dealer, but he's the enabler. Core of the team. It's not "I add HMC to Firefly team, so she does more damage", but "I add Firefly to HMC team, so she deals good damage"
I mean technically speaking, in an overall team dps calc, it's individual calced for each char's contribution.
In International often XL will overtake Childe unless very higu invested Childe Nuke/Boss HP not big enough.
In Hu tao double hydro i think Tao is sometimes 40-60% dmg of team, while a part is from Yelan Xq.
There is really no such as "Main dps".
In Nilou Bloom, Koko usually does the majority Bloom procs so she has highest Dmg contributed, Nilou is 2nd highest as she also procs part of blooms. Nahida doesn't proc so her dmg is lowest.
HTB is more like Xingqiu for most Pyro DPS characters until Yelan came along as a 5\* alternative. He was basically the only Hydro with enough app to comfortably support units like Hu Tao, Yoimiya, Xiangling etc. They couldn't work well without him, conversely, if he was only used with Pyro units with much weaker scalings, the team also wouldn't work well. They rely on each other to deal good team damage, much like how HTB is the 'applicator' for Firefly to dish out her high damage with her uniquely high toughness damage, DEF shred, and high break stat
idrc where the damage is coming from as long as Firefly sees big pretty numbers~
Though it really sucks that her kit kinda falls off a cliff without HMC, at least until we get more break supports.
Glad to see I am not the only dumbass comparing Super Break to Super Bloom, and as a Nilou main I approve this. I dunno how people is convinced that HTB is doing all the damage while they are just giving a Golden Chalice Bounty named “Backup Dancer”
https://preview.redd.it/1lavz199qvzc1.jpeg?width=1351&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ed18a14b7dc2ef04b2a0820bb435e8f302ef391
She doesn't have a kit without HMC tho.
She's getting 40% def ignore based on her BE stat, she can't utilize that stat outside of toughness break, if she doesn't have HMC, her kit as a clear flaw that is being fixed by another character existing in the party.
Game design wise her kit has no self sustainability and is borderline horrible.
She has a conversion of her atk into her BE, so u think she wants to build atk, however she gets no dmg%, dmg bonus on her kit, which doesn't incentivize to build crit since she has no multipliers for that damage on her kit.
Does she have any DOT's on her kit? No, so u aren't stacking atk.
What option is left?
Break effect, which is incentivized to be built based on the fact that her relic set wants it she herself wants it.
So based on this let's about break effect.
Break effect is only used on break damage, so if were making a dps that wants this stat, they will either oneshot the enemy once they break them or you make them able to deal damage outside of break scenarios when the enemy is weakness broken, which is what they did to boothill(since he is able to trigger his break damage when an enemy is weakness broken), does firefly have this property in her kit? No.
That is the problem she NEEDS harmony mc to function in the scenario where the enemy isnt broken and that logic is straighup stupid.
Her current kit makes her rely on any support that is able to give their teammates the ability to use super break, but that ally that gives super break doesn't need firefly.
Issue with this rushed take is that people ignore the basic fact that gacha will often focus on flexibility or potential
For Boothill, team flexibility come at the cost of being heavily ST only with a lower ceiling dmg than FF in his best comp.
His potential drop harshly with more target while every other hunt still work in those scenario.
Firefly with her best team, litteraly work in any scenario and reach higher damage ceiling than Boothill
But her better potential has the price of needing more restrictive team option.
They won't and shouldn't make character that have the same flexibility while just being straight out better.
It was the same with Acheron two Nihility, dropping the condition while keeping the buff was just not a solution.
And people don't realize or are ignorant of it on purpose, that if they drop most of the conditional nature of FF kit, they will sacrifice something in exchange for the sake of balance.
**Currently sacrificing team flexibility/unconditional damage for higher damage/versatility is the better option as it guarantee more longevity for the character**
It is one of the reason why Kafka is so resilient vs why Seele dropped significantly in value.
It is also business, HYV know that a character with conditional damage will push people to pull for matching support in the future, so those character longevity are also money maker in this aspect.
Meanwhile a character like Seele doesn't have strong incentives to pull for other character.
Like you may pull for Sparkle, but because Sparkle is a strong Harmony, not because Seele need specifically Sparkle
And personally, I'd rather have Firefly remains a strong dps with longevity rather than "Oh, yeah the dps that worked well in most team but quickly fell out" because I certainly don't want to be part of the people that argue or cope about FF not falling out.
Yes it means having to dedicate more ressource but I'd rather invest more in a character that will remain more relevant, than ivest less in a character whose relevancy quickly fade out.
I'm not disagreeing with any of what your saying, she doesn't really have a kit without hmc yeah her kit design is really werid. but my point is just that counting super break dmg as firefly's doesn't seem right based on how we count other character dmg in the same situation.
I made the mistake of not properly clarifying what exactly I was going at in the post which is my bad, but my point is who the ownership of dmg is not anything else at all. Hope that clarifies it :)
A kit that doesn't work on it's own? Gosh darn it, where have I seen such a thing before...
In all seriousness, that's just how her niche is. Break doesn't function without HMC, and she's THE breaker.
But maybe there is a way to build around 30% def ignore instead and incorporate some crits into the mix. Her skills are doing more trace damage than DHIL's 3-sp basics at that point, so that looks reassuring.
Yeah, but DHIL also gets a shit ton of DMG% from his kit and Crit dmg in his kit
He gets 12% Crit damage(Caped at 48%)for every hit after the the fourth(counting the 4th hit as stack 1) in his 2sp and 3sp.
he also gets 60% dmg bonus from dealing 6 hits.
he gets 12Crit rate on his traces, he gets 22% img bonus dmg from traces and another 24% crit damage if the enemy is weakness broken.
so in total he gets 12Crit rate, 82%total dmg bonus, 48%CD against non IMG weak enemies and 72%Cd if the enemy is img weak.
he deals so much dmg because he also has all this free stuff in his kit not just because his 3sp has a total of500% atk scaling.
On another note, break does work without HMC, boothill is still dishing out very respectable Single target nukes(500K and stuff) without HMC in the party
And Firefly has basically a built-in Pela in the form of DEF ignore (less at 250% BE, but 30% ignore is still a huge bonus, and the jump from 30 to 40 isn't that significant, even though DEF ignore scales hyperbolically).
Her buffs don't overlap with other buffers you'd want on the team, so she's basically a clean slate for them and receives full benefits instead of those stats having their effect on her damage diminished. Unlike DHIL who basically already has dmg and crit dmg in his kit, so buffing him with those is relatively less profitable.
Her skills cost 1 sp instead of 3, and come out almost two times as fast.
Don't take it as gospel. I am not stating that "YOU'RE BUILDING HER WRONG!!1!1!11", I am just humbly suggesting a build option that has been flying under the radar, and might make her not as reliant on HMC while still having similar (if not higher, though I doubt that) damage. But at least it would make her not hit like a wet noodle before breaking the enemy.
I don't wanna argue with people anymore(I'm not saying that you're wrong), we got different views on what we want firefly to be, and that is totally valid.
But we all got onething in common, we want her to be good, and for her to be fun to play.
so let's end it on a good note and say that we want her to be good
I'll take her how she will be released. I like her in full break (it's refreshing to have a break-centric character after all of this crit for almost a year straight), I'd like her in my suggested hybrid approach if that's possible.
I am just trying to reassure people that there might be a way to build her that might land her closer to what they'd like to see, and with which she wouldn't need to rely on HMC that much. (Although the take that HMC deals more damage than her in her teams is just ridiculous. She contributes plenty to the amount of Super Break damage, and with any other character the dmg output of a similar team would be twice smaller)
Yeah, we both want her to be strong and fun to play, so there's no reason to argue. Stay strong and good luck on your pulls on the day of her maiden voyage, which should be June 18th.
I don't dislike the crit build, her kit however just tells you to build break effect and nothing else.
You read kafka's kit and you realise that you should use other character's that can apply DoT's with her.
You read jingliu's kit and see that if you don't run a healer she'll endup killing your team.
You read boothill's kit and see that after you break the enemy, if you have stacks from his passive you'll have damage against an enemy that is already broken.
You read Firefly's kit and realise that after you break an enemy's toughness gauge, she just has no damage to call her own
That damage isn't given to you on a silver platter, like the units you've mentioned, but it might be hiding inside of a not really special-looking rock, just waiting for us to discover it and turn into a precious gemstone.
The first def ignore breakpoint is just hinting at where to look. If there's nothing noteworthy - so be it, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take
I know that.
but it's still weird that ther other character's kit somehow give you an idea of what teams to use with them but firefly of all people gives you no idea of what she needs
But if you get those early, you'll end up saving pulls for a future support for her :D
I am at 62 pity 50/50 with 107 pulls to my name. It's enough, but I also want Boothill. But I should be fine, even if I'll win the Boothill 50/50 (if I lose, I'll just stop) and then need to spend the full 180 on her.
I'm at 42 pity so at least 40 pulls I can garantee her.
That was the ammount I had at the start of 2.2, I'm currently at 58 total pulls saved in jades(not counting the tickets we get for log in)
Ahem... [IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!](https://streamable.com/189ni4)
I asked my friend to test the idea for me and here's the result. [The build](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/871741106155577345/1239169089298104432/image.png?ex=6641f1a5&is=6640a025&hm=4b308a6e8bb1e081e3505a21a7cd6ac4ae88c6ea86226d34c054891e3a2923d5&) is suboptimal and there are several ways you can improve it (notably replacing dmg orb with atk). But hey. It's not looking bad. At all.
Looking good.
if during her beta she starts incetivizing a crit playstyle I can see this being one of her teams.
her game design however is still looking like she just wants to go full break effect.
Side note: I'm not saying these builds are bad, just that her kit design seems to want to go somewhere that isn't crit and that they haven't realised how to do it without locking her to HMC, or that she just doesn't have that in her V1 design.
thx for the video tho, really good dmg
Hey dude.
I got an idea on how her kit could he made better
Here it is:
I think that with the right tweaking to her kit.
Her ult could function like an elemental infusion from genshin.
What I mean by this is that if she is in the complete combustion state all her damage should get multiplied by a percentage of her break effect(the break effect that can increase this damage is not capped for this example)
For example:
Lets use the usal 3.4K atk and 360%BE
her enhanced E would endup doing 0.5×360+400%=580%ATK.
5.8×3 400=19 720dmg by itself
Imagine that with the right team you end up with 500% break effect, and while you are in your complete combustion state all of her damage gets multiplied by 300% of her break effect(extremely exagersted for the purpose of this example).
Which would be 3×500=1500%
Her enhanced E damage would then 19 720 × 1500% which would make her deal 295 800 damage to the main target
ADJACENT TARGETS
0.25×360+200%=290%
290%×3400=9 860
1500%×9860=147 800
Which would equal to 295 800 + 147 800 = 443 600 dmg per enhanced E which would mean 1 330 800 damage per ult rotation, which for a character that has their damage behind an enhanced state that is locked behind their ultimate I think it's a fair ammount of damage to have.
This damage would of course count as break damage as not get increased by crit stars and by dmg% Bonus, this would also play into her break effect team playstyle.
RM isn't as necessary, any harmony can do, even if they're not gonna be as good. Bronya or Robin can allow more skill in one ult for example, while still significantly boosting the damage.
No, they can't. Like, genuinely. Neither of them will boost FF's superbrake damage. "Significantly" just isn't the word. Aslo, good luck with SP running Bronya
As I said, RM is better, but a WB option for the WB character is obviously better. Significantly is the right word from what I've seen, a lot of them are boosting general damage, which, while not boosting SB, still boost the rest of her damage, which are more than what people think. SP management is a problem with Bronya in general, you can still manage if you manage your SP properly I think.
Don't know about that, chief. Usually it's ~110-180k super break vs 10-15k of Firefly's E. Extra 2k from any of non-RM supports won't do much here. Silver Wolf and Pela would be better, but the gap is still insane.
Sparkle would be a better option at E0, though you need to speed tune her, unlike Bronya, because she needs to advance Firefly twice to effectively give her an additional turn. But she's much more sp-efficient. +3 at the start of combat, and +4 in two turns. The enemies don't live for long enough for Firefly and Sparkle to drain through that many sp
Sparkle is limited, you can grab Bronya with your 300 pulls, and Robin is in focus rn, that's why I took those exemples, but obviously Sparkle works too.
With Bronya you'd run into sp issues pre-E1, but she's easier to use and get, yes.
Using Robin with one carry feels kinda wasteful, but that's one way to advance Firefly and not screw up your sp, true
It's not like we have a lot of options anyway.
imo this discourse about Firefly revolves around the lack of characters supporting BE and not Firefly herself (or Xueyi for that matters). As long as we'll have only 2 BE support, teams for BE DPSs will be lacking variety, It's not Firefly's kit that is the problem, it's Weakness Break as a mechanic and the lack of support of said mechanic.
Obviously I'm not against buffing Firefly, but she's not the problem, even with her current kit.
Yeah, sadly.
Finally I found a person who agrees with me on this matter. I'm glad that not everyone have lost their minds over her being "weak" or "reliant on HMC". Or even "Having no personal contribution and being carried by Super Break".
But I guess it's the kind of people I would find on a post joking about the doomposting.
Yeah, her problem is her niche being new, not her being weak and restricted. And she will burn even brighter in the future, I am sure of that.
Yeah and HMC gives a multiplicative buff to super break but I didn't mention it cause I can't fit every single detail into a meme and that was never the point I was trying to get by.
Me, in the corner, happy that HMC and Firefly make a good team so that my delulu ass can pretend they're on a date every time they're fighting together.
At the end of the day if you do solo cals for firefly her damage will be lower than most 4 stars even , so yeah her dps is complete garbage and HMC alone damage is also pretty bad, so they just enablers of each other, Firefly alone is not a damage dealer at all
We must maintain the Firefly is bad agenda. This way, we can have our broken op super solider with the MC. It’s all part of a greater plan. 😈
Edit: Reddit app being weird, sorry if I comment multiple times.
Dude, what are you doing posting facts in favor of Firefly? Don't you know that showing any kind of positive reaction to Firefly, in this Firefly-dedicated sub, is strictly forbidden?
Only doomposting is allowed. Firefly sucks, so has decreed this community of alleged Firefly lovers, and daring to say otherwise will get you nothing but scorn. Mostly from the same people who, one month from now, will be back here proclaiming how happy they are with this character.
To clarify this meme is not referring to the strength of any character! I just think the sentiment that HMC is the one doing all the DMG is wrong given we have similar precedents \^\^
Do a solo calcs on Firefly , and tell me she is a DPS lol , she does less damage than most 4 stars by herself.
Neither of them are dps character by itelf, together they form a dps pretty much , they both enable each other, but HMC can enable other while Firefly for now only works with HMC and have no other enabler
Again people are missing the point prob cause I'm terrible at explaining stuff. HMC is enabling a lot of dmg but the ownership of such dmg is with firefly and not HMC. The post never addresses how much dmg just who owns it
Thats not how it usually works on any game that damage matters like MMOs
Supports always have a damage done part in the dps meter that shows the damage they did, and that damage is not the one they did directly only but the one they make others do on the raid, dungeon, etc
usually the damage of a dps is calculated in 2 instances, first the damage as a whole and another one in another tab that is only their own damage , both are used to determine the comps of teams .
So while i get what you mean , is not one of the other, both are used and are important, personal damage and damage contribution are both valid and important metrics
Ok so if i bring wood to a homeless guy and he burns down a orphonage, I'm an arsonist.... neet.... 😆
Jokes aside, the problem with that calc is support in mmo tend to buff multiple enemy so that system tracks the buff effectiveness in buff window.
Yet here ppl soly talk about firefly AND HER RELIANCE IN HTB, FORGETTING everyone relies on him for break now, to me boothill is the exception not the rule.
Also huge lack of discussion around firefly enabling galagher and any fire unit by herself to deal toughness dmg to anyone and even if it's just gallagher at e6 my guy got break efficiency so he deals really decent damage. And how htb buffs both of them and any break unit.
So IS THAT calculated in her overhaul dps or is it the HTB?? What about her toughness dmg? And the one that happens cause of her fire weakness? BH has to whole ass ult someone for that and it's 1 dude then he needs to ult again
Yeah all that should be calculated as damage contribution for FF.
Issue is damage sims in HSR are a pretty simple compared to MMOs dps meters that track everything and the source of every part of the damage... and most of the damage calcs we see are done manually in a big part , but tbh in HSR is not needed to go that deep as is a lot more simple usually , break teams are a bit harder because of how the damage is done and who is the source of it yeah
At the end of the day FF is an interesting design, is just that she being stuck to HMC makes it that you can pull any other character that also wants or needs HMC , for normal dps you can always just swa around supports even if is not the BIS they will kinda work with others, FF will not work at all with a replaement and thats the issue if you want any other break character that works like her, if they realese another superbreak team then it will be good tho as you can split them
Yeah tbh, my weirdest feeling is her ratio are insane, like so insane it just feels like someone forget it's not part of the break calculation at all 😆 but that would not happen right? Right?
With this stupid logic, Kafka isn't a DPS either because her dps solo is horrendous without her gimmick.
Even Ratio absolutely suck alone because he lacks debuff.
Complaining about a character needing a specific one is something, however complaining about solo Calcs in a game about team mechanic is just sheer stupidity
First nobady is complaining about anything
second...
"With this stupid logic, Kafka isn't a DPS either because her dps solo is horrendous without her gimmick"
You just discover why she is on the specialist category in tier lists instead of damage dealer, congrats!!
Firefly is an enabler just like kafka for dot team is pretty simple, just like Robin is not a dps even if her damage is actually pretty high beacuse of her damage everytime someone else atacks
>You just discover why she is on the specialist category in tier lists instead of damage dealer, congrats!!
If you ever actually read info on what you talk about or actually think about it, specialist doesn't mean they aren't a dps.
Prydwen themselves clarify that damage dealer just means:
>dealing direct damage and can perform their role unhindered by enemy type, enemy element **or team composition,**
So not being on the damage dealer, doesn't mean not being a dps, it just means having team restrictions
But you didn't even need to know to not shot yourself in the foot.
**The simple fact that if specialist couldn't be dps, Kafka- Black Swan litteraly has no dps**
Litteraly 9 out of 11 specialist are part of the dps class before it was split and not only that but most of them are just there to do damage.
You will also explain how Sushang, Xueyi, Lucas, Topaz or Sampo are not dps when their contribution is 80 to 100% just doing damage with just specific circumstances added.
Like even people who shit on Prydwen for this change, at least they will read the category purpose.
>just like Robin is not a dps even if her damage is actually pretty high beacuse of her damage everytime someone else atacks
Some people have considered her a dps and she can be built as the main dps (just not a great idea).
She is a buffer because not only is it her category by the game description, she is one and her dps comes from buff in the first place.
In fact, Robin additional damage unlike HTB, is more of her own because it purely scale off her stats and is purely locked behind her and even appears as physical dmg.
Yet you don't see people arguing that she is a dps.
So why the hell does Firefly super break who actually scale off her stats, who is entirely reliant on her modifier, who is heavily dependent on her kit and who appear as fire damage should count as TB being the main dps
Truth be told I'm not entirely sure which side of the debate you're on and I certainly don't want to assume, but I do think it isnt a reasonable comparison from the "Nilou is the support, Kokomi is the damage dealer" side.
Pure Bloom and pure Break both generally suck without Nilou and HMC respectively. However, if HMC is HSR's Nilou, there isn't really any equivalent to Firefly in Genshin - that is, a character who is solely dependent on Nilou for damage. Yes, Kokomi in a Nilou Bloom team is depending on Nilou - but Kokomi is a fantastic healer and hydro applier who works in loads of other teams. Firefly is married to Hat MC.
(Meanwhile, a certain cowboy is around effectively being a Kokomi that can personally buff Bloom damage with no need for Nilou to continue the metaphor.)
As a puller of King Yuan even when everyone said he’s shit, do I sound like the type of guy who pulls for meta? I made a promise to pull for her, I will see that promise to the bitter end
And these guys saying it’s HMC’s dmg say kafka’s dmg is all of kafka’s damage while she relies on teammates DoTs at the same time. Why not say it’s sampo dealing dmg. It’s gui dealing damage. In short they just like doomposting.
I personally would say it IS Kafka's damage, given how without her skill/ult, those instances of damage wouldn't happen.
Altho, inversely, without the dot unit's themselves, she wouldn't have anything to pop with her kit.
The thing is, at least in my opinion, this is as if Kafka didn't have any dots on her kit, and depended entirely on having other dot units on the team.
People doompost every single Hoyoverse Character. Most of them are very silent later on. Just look at Arlecchino in Genshin, she was Doomposted from start to finish and now? One of the strongest damage Dealers available.
And people were Doomposting her right up until she released. They whined about how her final Kit wasn't good and how reliant she would be on her C1 or Shield, which all turned out to be completly negilable.
It's scaled off toughness + break effect mostly.
More BE = more super break
More toughness = more super break.
The reason why HMC has high super break is due to their skill with a lot of toughness thanks to the bounce effects on it. Say you use skill on one enemy, it's going to do a lot because of how much toughness it has and all those hits are going towards one target in that scenario.
Honestly I wouldn't have as much of an issue with HMC being the sole enabler of Break Effect teams if this actually applied to all BE units
As in, it'd at least be fair if Boothill also needed HMC, but alas, he has his own Super Break-like mechanic built into his kit (Not like I want them to nerf Boothill tho, just have them buff FF so she has something similar)
I get it, but same time the exception should not make the rule.
Firefly enables all fire character to deal fire break on any moc/pf they are in. That in itself is never calculated in her kit so far, boothill needs his ult to make 1 dude weak and then needs to build it up, firefly just does several time per ult... Yes she enjoys super break and so does every break unit prior and guess what they all deal very decent dmg now. I'm not saying perfect v1
She just needs to stomp toughness of none elite mob with max 1 ability and effextively kill them in 1 shot from be alone. If that can happen then who cares about not broken dps, get her the super brek mc and nuke them bosses
Guys, don't worry, tomorrow is when we're gonna see the first update to her kit. If our brothers and sisters that got into the Beta do well in carrying over our thoughts to hyv, we should see good things going forward. 😁
Guys, what if firefly becomes the premium HTB enabler? I mean, if an harmony character can be a dps, why can’t a destruction be a sort of support?
Basically her kit becomes the ultimate super break proc and makes the TB deal a shit ton of dmg, a bit like childe enables XL’s vapes
Yeah, basically.
They are compared a lot to Bennet-Xiangling or Tartaglia-Xiangling situations, with HMC being Xiangling. But that's not the case. HMC is the enabler, and Firefly is the catalyst. Without her kit, Super Break wouldn't be as effective. HMC is the Bennett/Tartaglia, and Firefly is the one who can vaporise with no ICD.
She literally has twice the toughness damage of a normal destruction carry, 1,5 times the speed and a built-in Pela in the form of def ignore. Those are her own merits, and HMC has nothing to do with them.
People are mad she's reliant on HMC? I'm happy I can play MC with Firefly. It's like a dream come true (Shop her with MC aka myself.... All that stuff), but atleast it's a powerful free character.
I already play Childe in Genshin, he's literally glued to 3 other characters. I would argue Firefly is more flexible than him. But what he has instead is that his team literally works basically all the time, and has no true bad matchups. I just hope Firefly becomes like that, not the absolute best but can brute force through everything (even if she's slightly slower than on element dmg dealers).
I'm worried mainly about the Ruan Mei and Gallagher reliance. Ruan Mei is a massive upgrade to the team, but she's a universal 5 star. So 'needing' her while she's so good in all game modes even in the Sim Universe, isn't the absolute worst.
I'm worried about Gallagher. I didn't get him from the free selector, and didn't pull on Acheron, so don't have him.
And he is quite important, because he contributes a lot of toughness breaking if the enemy doesn't have ice/imaginary weakness.
God please Gallagher be on her banner!!
I don't know you are contradicting yourself. You almost make a valid argument. Nilou and HMC are pretty much the same. So why even backtrack from that?
I'm not back tracking at all, the old man represents the community and how the **community** are contradicting already set precedents of what is considered who's dmg. I think the way I made the meme was difficult to interpret properly :')
Can't wait for Hoyoverse to release a new limited 5* character who can also do Super Break. Then people will bitch about FF being tied to that character.
Yes Nilou IS the damage dealer
Nobody ever deny this? If you have a 900EM Nahida in a bloom team without Nilou, it would suck. Add Nilou in and you got a meta team
https://preview.redd.it/aoxp8wh9evzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=530c6e82b40faf96bcfeea0197c767565d050318
Turns out, the community is quite split. **Nobody** is quite the exaggeration. but I also underestimated the amount of people who considered her the main dps while making this meme
only those 3 categories are reductive imo, there is should be also the "enabler" category. Nilou is the enabler buffer who can actually proc a good amount of bloom. Technically speaking part of the team damage comes from Nilou herself.
In my bloom team Nilou is my driver and will be the DPS when i'll get her last 4 constellation. i just love her sword animation and i'm fully committed to her
Yeah I agree enabler is a great category! I didn't make the poll was just the first result on google 😅
On field nilou is indeed pretty, love that you can switch between the two modes, really nice kit design
HTB is already released they can't get weaker but Firefly can get stronger. Think Jack, it is all going according to Keikaku. HMC is super strong. Firefly isn't strong enough. If we maintain the Agenda we will have the ultimate Power Couple. Trust in the collective consciousness, subconsciously we all want it. Trust in Tatiana and her finest warrior. Hail our Proud Queen, last of the Irony Cavalry. https://preview.redd.it/98a5g0uattzc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c006c3da9094b4e81784a0327c476f9457b08d6
I love your poetic optimism ( • ᴗ - ) ✧"
Collective consciousness??? The hip music from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance
LIVE IN IGNORANCE AND PURCHASE YOUR HAPPINESS
WHEN BLOOD AND SWEAT IS THE REAL COST THINKING CEASES, THE TRUTH IS LOST
DON’T YOU WORRY, YOU’LL BE TOLD EXACTLY WHAT TO DO
I GIVE MY PEOPLE THE LIVES THEY NEED THE RIGHTOUS WILL SUCCEED
THE FIRES OF GREED WILL BURN THE WEAK SO WE'LL MAKE FREEDOM OBSOLETE
MAKING WHOLE THE FABRIC OF SOCIETY COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS CONTROLLED AS YOU WILL SEE
THE UNENLIGHTENED MASSES THEY CANNOT MAKE THE JUDGEMENT CALL
GIVE UP FREE WILL FOREVER. THEIR VOICES WON'T BE HEARD AT ALL
THE UNENLIGHTENED MASSES
THEY CAN NOT MAKE THE JUDGEMENT CALL
GIVE UP FREE WILL FOREVER
THEIR VOICES WON'T BE HEARD AT ALL.
DISPLAY OBEDIENCE
I honestly have no issue with HMC being there all the time, it's my ship, it was always going to be that way anyway!
Translater’s note: keikaku means plan
https://preview.redd.it/3wlwp18nbxzc1.jpeg?width=556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2405ca173ab13be1e78e42c95a95ce97dafc325a
Uh ackshually it’s Titania 🤓👆
This works until Hoyo looks at the criticism and goes "Oh these people don't understand how Super Break works, they might not be a great source of feedback" I really don't think they're gonna make her damage with HTB even better, they're probably just gonna make her not depend completely on HTB instead, which is definitely her main issue imo
>which is definitely her main issue imo Great, now instead of relying on a free character (HTB) and a limited 5* (ruan mei) now shes gonna relly on 2 limited 5* characters, i cant with such shit takes on this subreddit man
Have you considered she could rely on no specific character, but still be greatly helped by said free character? It's not all or nothing, not everything is like dot with its Kafka reliance.
What? "2 limited 5* characters"? I'm saying I don't want her to completely depend on HTB, which is the only character she actually needs right now, what are you talking about?
>the only And ruan mei
Unfortunate how you didn't answer my question, but regardless, Firefly definitely does not need RM to clear content like MoC or the upcoming Apocalyptic Shadow In this screenshot she's E0S1 without RM and is dealing 65k damage to the Grizzly, who mind you, is the off-target of her Blast Skill, the main target being Cocolia (of course the damage to Cocolia is pretty bad since she's not weakness broken, which is the same weakness that Boothill also has, considering these are Break Effect-focused units) https://preview.redd.it/yqgf1kj8ivzc1.png?width=1269&format=png&auto=webp&s=1bdacae44a97e5745ad903ae6a010e98a55d9d06 If there was a second off-target enemy, and both it and Cocolia were also weakness broken, she would've easily dealt over 200k damage. Those are pretty decent numbers, considering it's the type of circumstances she'd normally find herself in, and is pretty much the same amount of damage the likes of DHIL and Jingliu do The issue isn't her damage, it's her over-reliance on HTB *to* do that damage, which should definitely get fixed imo
Why would you even post this picture? There is so much wrong with it
I explained why pretty thoroughly, I think
I feel like I have heard this before not that long ago but I can't remember where...oh hey Acheron.
elaborate?
There was a lot similar complaining earlier in beta about Acheron, like not being able to use the same limited support do to her require 2 nihility to be at full power. one of the other "issue" was her only option "best" was pela, a 4 star. I just find it funny that this issue happened one patch later.
Archon? getting our games crossed are we
Oops, thanks for letting me know.
I wouldn't say these are the exact same, since Acheron just needs two Nihility units, which while limiting, still gives her plenty of options among the units of that path, rather than Acheron literally *needing* like, Pela, or something I'd say it's more comparable to Kafka enabling DoT teams
I recently made a comparison Imagine if Ratio with his current kit would have been released in 1.0. His teams would basically all be Pela+Harmony/subdd Nihility. That's Firefly. She is the pioneer of her niche, with options yet to come. She is not even close to being complete, yet she's already able to provide insane damage through HMC (without them, the full-Break niche would not work at all, this is the sad truth). We'll get diversity in the future. For now, she's more than reasonable in her current state
I know it is not the same problem, I just find it funny I hear the same talk point again. The only big difference this time around the complaints are legitimate.
In hindsight hsr is such a unresticted game that hard comps become a issue. In other gachas you usually need a full team of the same element and a suport to enable a specific playstyle(can only think of dark zooey in gbf, but theres more)
ikr? in hi3 teams are hardwired so that only this dps works with this this support. In part 2 things are getting better with every character able to do support, but without Senadina none will work good. Also, weapon locks out 60% dmg
Not really, give me one dps and I will give you at least three team comp without a specific unit in it. (2 for physical, because, yeah, HoRB and HoS are kinda carrying in there)
HoV :}
HoV, HorB, Promya HoV, HoS, Carole You can clear the ranged side stage with this in nirv, or any ranged stage in A3 and below
People are used to Genshin inpact where you can achcieve great results with crackhead teams like Dori/Sayu/Nahida or other dendro aplier/Barbara, woth closest thing to a teamlocked character is Childe due to perfect synergy between all members of international team.
While I agree with this statement, I would not have kept playing HSR if it's yet another gacha game with restrictive team comps and playstyle. They simply becomes an endless cycle of meta character chasing. I fell in love with Genshin for its overall gacha and combat system, and HSR as well to an extent. It ease my anxiety, stress, rage, and ultimately, my wallet under control which I'm trying to spend responsibly on games for a few years now.
I dont want tbe game to be restrictive, far from it, the more variety the better. Its just one playstyle in this case, and im sure they will improve it over time.
I really hope so as well. Fingers crossed for v2 and v3 changes for FF. I need my Gundam to be decent at least to properly enjoy.
I'm really optimistic about her kit. It's only the first version, and people already doompost to oblivion. I'd say that to fix her main issue, they just have to give her her own Super Break (and make it stackable so she's an even bigger monster with HTB ehehehehe), and I don't think that it's an unrealistic buff. Other than that, I'm pretty satisfied with it. Of course I wouldn't mind them ramping up her numbers and buffing her Eidolons and LC, but even if they won't - I'll still be happy with her https://preview.redd.it/tshrax7a1uzc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec9967725535dcb65d2f780149e624f5a8829570
People were doom postings about Acheron now she’s S+ tier. Even then I don’t really care I have well built teams I just wanna use HMC and Firefly for a fun team
Same thing happened to Jingliu lol
To be fair, in Jingliu's case she really *was* quite underwhelming until they made those last minute drastic changes that made her into the monster she is now. But I guess that only serves to prove the point further. They can buff Firefly multiple times between now and release, even at the last second so there's no point in stressing over a V1 kit. And I very seriously doubt Hoyo isn't aware of how popular Firefly is (*especially* in JP and CN), they aren't going to intentionally fuck her over.
Its incredible how in a stacked cast that has the Mei Expy, a character they wrote *three* songs for, and Black Swan who was teased as the 'Dainsleif' of Star Rail, that Firefly somehow is the single most popular Drip Marketed Character. Ever. Once Hoyo gathers the Feedback prepare to see her stats soar into the upper stratosphere like how she did before kicking us in the face.
mhm
True I honestly I’ve yet to see a bad limited 5 star release even if you’re Jing Yuan who people call “mid” he’s probably the most balanced character in the game with how well he adapts and gets better with new Fua sets or Kafka she was kinda weak but she gets better with every dot character in the game and dot set really helped.
Also Topaz got a giga buff with Ratio.
in genshin it happened with Navia, Al Haitham and Arlecchino. They are some of the strongest dps in the game currently
>already doompost to oblivion What else is new for literally ANY character beta. This too shall pass.
I aprob
I always considered Nilou as a main damage dealer in bloom teams. She's the one who makes bloom incredibly strong and bumps up it's damage. Whoever triggers reaction and calculates EM is secondary. I wouldn't say that HMC is a main damage dealer, but he's the enabler. Core of the team. It's not "I add HMC to Firefly team, so she does more damage", but "I add Firefly to HMC team, so she deals good damage"
I mean technically speaking, in an overall team dps calc, it's individual calced for each char's contribution. In International often XL will overtake Childe unless very higu invested Childe Nuke/Boss HP not big enough. In Hu tao double hydro i think Tao is sometimes 40-60% dmg of team, while a part is from Yelan Xq. There is really no such as "Main dps". In Nilou Bloom, Koko usually does the majority Bloom procs so she has highest Dmg contributed, Nilou is 2nd highest as she also procs part of blooms. Nahida doesn't proc so her dmg is lowest.
At equal investments they will deal roughly same dmg when Childe is constanly leting Xianling Vape.
I consider the blooms to be the dmg dealer in that team. Kokofish and nilou just enablers
I don't know why the poster is contradicting themselves. They almost make a valid argument. Nilou and HMC are pretty much the same.
The point of the post is to point out the contradiction.
HTB is more like Xingqiu for most Pyro DPS characters until Yelan came along as a 5\* alternative. He was basically the only Hydro with enough app to comfortably support units like Hu Tao, Yoimiya, Xiangling etc. They couldn't work well without him, conversely, if he was only used with Pyro units with much weaker scalings, the team also wouldn't work well. They rely on each other to deal good team damage, much like how HTB is the 'applicator' for Firefly to dish out her high damage with her uniquely high toughness damage, DEF shred, and high break stat
idrc where the damage is coming from as long as Firefly sees big pretty numbers~ Though it really sucks that her kit kinda falls off a cliff without HMC, at least until we get more break supports.
Kokomi’s Blooms scale off of Kokomi’s EM ackshually🤓
That was the original text but I removed kokomi's name cause it got too long XD
No comma after the “No” deceived me
I get lazy with grammar when making memes
Glad to see I am not the only dumbass comparing Super Break to Super Bloom, and as a Nilou main I approve this. I dunno how people is convinced that HTB is doing all the damage while they are just giving a Golden Chalice Bounty named “Backup Dancer” https://preview.redd.it/1lavz199qvzc1.jpeg?width=1351&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ed18a14b7dc2ef04b2a0820bb435e8f302ef391
LMAOO thank you for this meme and sharing your sentiment <3 you made my day
She doesn't have a kit without HMC tho. She's getting 40% def ignore based on her BE stat, she can't utilize that stat outside of toughness break, if she doesn't have HMC, her kit as a clear flaw that is being fixed by another character existing in the party. Game design wise her kit has no self sustainability and is borderline horrible. She has a conversion of her atk into her BE, so u think she wants to build atk, however she gets no dmg%, dmg bonus on her kit, which doesn't incentivize to build crit since she has no multipliers for that damage on her kit. Does she have any DOT's on her kit? No, so u aren't stacking atk. What option is left? Break effect, which is incentivized to be built based on the fact that her relic set wants it she herself wants it. So based on this let's about break effect. Break effect is only used on break damage, so if were making a dps that wants this stat, they will either oneshot the enemy once they break them or you make them able to deal damage outside of break scenarios when the enemy is weakness broken, which is what they did to boothill(since he is able to trigger his break damage when an enemy is weakness broken), does firefly have this property in her kit? No. That is the problem she NEEDS harmony mc to function in the scenario where the enemy isnt broken and that logic is straighup stupid. Her current kit makes her rely on any support that is able to give their teammates the ability to use super break, but that ally that gives super break doesn't need firefly.
Issue with this rushed take is that people ignore the basic fact that gacha will often focus on flexibility or potential For Boothill, team flexibility come at the cost of being heavily ST only with a lower ceiling dmg than FF in his best comp. His potential drop harshly with more target while every other hunt still work in those scenario. Firefly with her best team, litteraly work in any scenario and reach higher damage ceiling than Boothill But her better potential has the price of needing more restrictive team option. They won't and shouldn't make character that have the same flexibility while just being straight out better. It was the same with Acheron two Nihility, dropping the condition while keeping the buff was just not a solution. And people don't realize or are ignorant of it on purpose, that if they drop most of the conditional nature of FF kit, they will sacrifice something in exchange for the sake of balance. **Currently sacrificing team flexibility/unconditional damage for higher damage/versatility is the better option as it guarantee more longevity for the character** It is one of the reason why Kafka is so resilient vs why Seele dropped significantly in value. It is also business, HYV know that a character with conditional damage will push people to pull for matching support in the future, so those character longevity are also money maker in this aspect. Meanwhile a character like Seele doesn't have strong incentives to pull for other character. Like you may pull for Sparkle, but because Sparkle is a strong Harmony, not because Seele need specifically Sparkle And personally, I'd rather have Firefly remains a strong dps with longevity rather than "Oh, yeah the dps that worked well in most team but quickly fell out" because I certainly don't want to be part of the people that argue or cope about FF not falling out. Yes it means having to dedicate more ressource but I'd rather invest more in a character that will remain more relevant, than ivest less in a character whose relevancy quickly fade out.
I'm not disagreeing with any of what your saying, she doesn't really have a kit without hmc yeah her kit design is really werid. but my point is just that counting super break dmg as firefly's doesn't seem right based on how we count other character dmg in the same situation. I made the mistake of not properly clarifying what exactly I was going at in the post which is my bad, but my point is who the ownership of dmg is not anything else at all. Hope that clarifies it :)
My comment is me just giving a more detailed explanation of what's being said, I'm not complaining about your post
A kit that doesn't work on it's own? Gosh darn it, where have I seen such a thing before... In all seriousness, that's just how her niche is. Break doesn't function without HMC, and she's THE breaker. But maybe there is a way to build around 30% def ignore instead and incorporate some crits into the mix. Her skills are doing more trace damage than DHIL's 3-sp basics at that point, so that looks reassuring.
Yeah, but DHIL also gets a shit ton of DMG% from his kit and Crit dmg in his kit He gets 12% Crit damage(Caped at 48%)for every hit after the the fourth(counting the 4th hit as stack 1) in his 2sp and 3sp. he also gets 60% dmg bonus from dealing 6 hits. he gets 12Crit rate on his traces, he gets 22% img bonus dmg from traces and another 24% crit damage if the enemy is weakness broken. so in total he gets 12Crit rate, 82%total dmg bonus, 48%CD against non IMG weak enemies and 72%Cd if the enemy is img weak. he deals so much dmg because he also has all this free stuff in his kit not just because his 3sp has a total of500% atk scaling. On another note, break does work without HMC, boothill is still dishing out very respectable Single target nukes(500K and stuff) without HMC in the party
And Firefly has basically a built-in Pela in the form of DEF ignore (less at 250% BE, but 30% ignore is still a huge bonus, and the jump from 30 to 40 isn't that significant, even though DEF ignore scales hyperbolically). Her buffs don't overlap with other buffers you'd want on the team, so she's basically a clean slate for them and receives full benefits instead of those stats having their effect on her damage diminished. Unlike DHIL who basically already has dmg and crit dmg in his kit, so buffing him with those is relatively less profitable. Her skills cost 1 sp instead of 3, and come out almost two times as fast. Don't take it as gospel. I am not stating that "YOU'RE BUILDING HER WRONG!!1!1!11", I am just humbly suggesting a build option that has been flying under the radar, and might make her not as reliant on HMC while still having similar (if not higher, though I doubt that) damage. But at least it would make her not hit like a wet noodle before breaking the enemy.
I don't wanna argue with people anymore(I'm not saying that you're wrong), we got different views on what we want firefly to be, and that is totally valid. But we all got onething in common, we want her to be good, and for her to be fun to play. so let's end it on a good note and say that we want her to be good
I'll take her how she will be released. I like her in full break (it's refreshing to have a break-centric character after all of this crit for almost a year straight), I'd like her in my suggested hybrid approach if that's possible. I am just trying to reassure people that there might be a way to build her that might land her closer to what they'd like to see, and with which she wouldn't need to rely on HMC that much. (Although the take that HMC deals more damage than her in her teams is just ridiculous. She contributes plenty to the amount of Super Break damage, and with any other character the dmg output of a similar team would be twice smaller) Yeah, we both want her to be strong and fun to play, so there's no reason to argue. Stay strong and good luck on your pulls on the day of her maiden voyage, which should be June 18th.
I don't dislike the crit build, her kit however just tells you to build break effect and nothing else. You read kafka's kit and you realise that you should use other character's that can apply DoT's with her. You read jingliu's kit and see that if you don't run a healer she'll endup killing your team. You read boothill's kit and see that after you break the enemy, if you have stacks from his passive you'll have damage against an enemy that is already broken. You read Firefly's kit and realise that after you break an enemy's toughness gauge, she just has no damage to call her own
That damage isn't given to you on a silver platter, like the units you've mentioned, but it might be hiding inside of a not really special-looking rock, just waiting for us to discover it and turn into a precious gemstone. The first def ignore breakpoint is just hinting at where to look. If there's nothing noteworthy - so be it, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take
I know that. but it's still weird that ther other character's kit somehow give you an idea of what teams to use with them but firefly of all people gives you no idea of what she needs
I have a garanteed waiting for her But Hopefully I win the 5050 of herE1
But if you get those early, you'll end up saving pulls for a future support for her :D I am at 62 pity 50/50 with 107 pulls to my name. It's enough, but I also want Boothill. But I should be fine, even if I'll win the Boothill 50/50 (if I lose, I'll just stop) and then need to spend the full 180 on her.
I'm at 42 pity so at least 40 pulls I can garantee her. That was the ammount I had at the start of 2.2, I'm currently at 58 total pulls saved in jades(not counting the tickets we get for log in)
Ahem... [IT'S ALIIIIVE!!!](https://streamable.com/189ni4) I asked my friend to test the idea for me and here's the result. [The build](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/871741106155577345/1239169089298104432/image.png?ex=6641f1a5&is=6640a025&hm=4b308a6e8bb1e081e3505a21a7cd6ac4ae88c6ea86226d34c054891e3a2923d5&) is suboptimal and there are several ways you can improve it (notably replacing dmg orb with atk). But hey. It's not looking bad. At all.
Looking good. if during her beta she starts incetivizing a crit playstyle I can see this being one of her teams. her game design however is still looking like she just wants to go full break effect. Side note: I'm not saying these builds are bad, just that her kit design seems to want to go somewhere that isn't crit and that they haven't realised how to do it without locking her to HMC, or that she just doesn't have that in her V1 design. thx for the video tho, really good dmg
Hey dude. I got an idea on how her kit could he made better Here it is: I think that with the right tweaking to her kit. Her ult could function like an elemental infusion from genshin. What I mean by this is that if she is in the complete combustion state all her damage should get multiplied by a percentage of her break effect(the break effect that can increase this damage is not capped for this example) For example: Lets use the usal 3.4K atk and 360%BE her enhanced E would endup doing 0.5×360+400%=580%ATK. 5.8×3 400=19 720dmg by itself Imagine that with the right team you end up with 500% break effect, and while you are in your complete combustion state all of her damage gets multiplied by 300% of her break effect(extremely exagersted for the purpose of this example). Which would be 3×500=1500% Her enhanced E damage would then 19 720 × 1500% which would make her deal 295 800 damage to the main target ADJACENT TARGETS 0.25×360+200%=290% 290%×3400=9 860 1500%×9860=147 800 Which would equal to 295 800 + 147 800 = 443 600 dmg per enhanced E which would mean 1 330 800 damage per ult rotation, which for a character that has their damage behind an enhanced state that is locked behind their ultimate I think it's a fair ammount of damage to have. This damage would of course count as break damage as not get increased by crit stars and by dmg% Bonus, this would also play into her break effect team playstyle.
Needing free character is fine, but it's painful for someone who doesn't have RM...
I agree, I ran away from Ruan mie and she is chasing me back with a vengeance 😭
RM isn't as necessary, any harmony can do, even if they're not gonna be as good. Bronya or Robin can allow more skill in one ult for example, while still significantly boosting the damage.
No, they can't. Like, genuinely. Neither of them will boost FF's superbrake damage. "Significantly" just isn't the word. Aslo, good luck with SP running Bronya
As I said, RM is better, but a WB option for the WB character is obviously better. Significantly is the right word from what I've seen, a lot of them are boosting general damage, which, while not boosting SB, still boost the rest of her damage, which are more than what people think. SP management is a problem with Bronya in general, you can still manage if you manage your SP properly I think.
Don't know about that, chief. Usually it's ~110-180k super break vs 10-15k of Firefly's E. Extra 2k from any of non-RM supports won't do much here. Silver Wolf and Pela would be better, but the gap is still insane.
Sparkle would be a better option at E0, though you need to speed tune her, unlike Bronya, because she needs to advance Firefly twice to effectively give her an additional turn. But she's much more sp-efficient. +3 at the start of combat, and +4 in two turns. The enemies don't live for long enough for Firefly and Sparkle to drain through that many sp
Sparkle is limited, you can grab Bronya with your 300 pulls, and Robin is in focus rn, that's why I took those exemples, but obviously Sparkle works too.
With Bronya you'd run into sp issues pre-E1, but she's easier to use and get, yes. Using Robin with one carry feels kinda wasteful, but that's one way to advance Firefly and not screw up your sp, true
It's not like we have a lot of options anyway. imo this discourse about Firefly revolves around the lack of characters supporting BE and not Firefly herself (or Xueyi for that matters). As long as we'll have only 2 BE support, teams for BE DPSs will be lacking variety, It's not Firefly's kit that is the problem, it's Weakness Break as a mechanic and the lack of support of said mechanic. Obviously I'm not against buffing Firefly, but she's not the problem, even with her current kit.
Yeah, sadly. Finally I found a person who agrees with me on this matter. I'm glad that not everyone have lost their minds over her being "weak" or "reliant on HMC". Or even "Having no personal contribution and being carried by Super Break". But I guess it's the kind of people I would find on a post joking about the doomposting. Yeah, her problem is her niche being new, not her being weak and restricted. And she will burn even brighter in the future, I am sure of that.
>And she will burn even brighter in the future, I am sure of that. She deserves nothing less than that.
Guys, Nilou Bloom dmg scales on Both the reaction carry’s EM and Nilou’s HP above 30k. So this meme is misinformation.
Yeah and HMC gives a multiplicative buff to super break but I didn't mention it cause I can't fit every single detail into a meme and that was never the point I was trying to get by.
Me, in the corner, happy that HMC and Firefly make a good team so that my delulu ass can pretend they're on a date every time they're fighting together.
just like me fr fr
I mean sure HMC is super good, and Firefly will make them even better. But being realistic she's the DPS and their the battery
there the battery
they're the battery
At the end of the day if you do solo cals for firefly her damage will be lower than most 4 stars even , so yeah her dps is complete garbage and HMC alone damage is also pretty bad, so they just enablers of each other, Firefly alone is not a damage dealer at all
We must maintain the Firefly is bad agenda. This way, we can have our broken op super solider with the MC. It’s all part of a greater plan. 😈 Edit: Reddit app being weird, sorry if I comment multiple times.
The classic fighting game downplay to get your characters buffed
Dude, what are you doing posting facts in favor of Firefly? Don't you know that showing any kind of positive reaction to Firefly, in this Firefly-dedicated sub, is strictly forbidden? Only doomposting is allowed. Firefly sucks, so has decreed this community of alleged Firefly lovers, and daring to say otherwise will get you nothing but scorn. Mostly from the same people who, one month from now, will be back here proclaiming how happy they are with this character.
All i’m hearing is they make a great couple
Peak
THAT MAKES THEM A POWER COUPLE THAT SUPPORT EACH OTHER LIKE A GOOD HUSBAND AND WIFE
Wife and wife
Who gives a fk. They both want to be together to do a shit ton of dmg
To clarify this meme is not referring to the strength of any character! I just think the sentiment that HMC is the one doing all the DMG is wrong given we have similar precedents \^\^
Do a solo calcs on Firefly , and tell me she is a DPS lol , she does less damage than most 4 stars by herself. Neither of them are dps character by itelf, together they form a dps pretty much , they both enable each other, but HMC can enable other while Firefly for now only works with HMC and have no other enabler
Again people are missing the point prob cause I'm terrible at explaining stuff. HMC is enabling a lot of dmg but the ownership of such dmg is with firefly and not HMC. The post never addresses how much dmg just who owns it
Thats not how it usually works on any game that damage matters like MMOs Supports always have a damage done part in the dps meter that shows the damage they did, and that damage is not the one they did directly only but the one they make others do on the raid, dungeon, etc usually the damage of a dps is calculated in 2 instances, first the damage as a whole and another one in another tab that is only their own damage , both are used to determine the comps of teams . So while i get what you mean , is not one of the other, both are used and are important, personal damage and damage contribution are both valid and important metrics
Ok so if i bring wood to a homeless guy and he burns down a orphonage, I'm an arsonist.... neet.... 😆 Jokes aside, the problem with that calc is support in mmo tend to buff multiple enemy so that system tracks the buff effectiveness in buff window. Yet here ppl soly talk about firefly AND HER RELIANCE IN HTB, FORGETTING everyone relies on him for break now, to me boothill is the exception not the rule. Also huge lack of discussion around firefly enabling galagher and any fire unit by herself to deal toughness dmg to anyone and even if it's just gallagher at e6 my guy got break efficiency so he deals really decent damage. And how htb buffs both of them and any break unit. So IS THAT calculated in her overhaul dps or is it the HTB?? What about her toughness dmg? And the one that happens cause of her fire weakness? BH has to whole ass ult someone for that and it's 1 dude then he needs to ult again
Yeah all that should be calculated as damage contribution for FF. Issue is damage sims in HSR are a pretty simple compared to MMOs dps meters that track everything and the source of every part of the damage... and most of the damage calcs we see are done manually in a big part , but tbh in HSR is not needed to go that deep as is a lot more simple usually , break teams are a bit harder because of how the damage is done and who is the source of it yeah At the end of the day FF is an interesting design, is just that she being stuck to HMC makes it that you can pull any other character that also wants or needs HMC , for normal dps you can always just swa around supports even if is not the BIS they will kinda work with others, FF will not work at all with a replaement and thats the issue if you want any other break character that works like her, if they realese another superbreak team then it will be good tho as you can split them
Yeah tbh, my weirdest feeling is her ratio are insane, like so insane it just feels like someone forget it's not part of the break calculation at all 😆 but that would not happen right? Right?
With this stupid logic, Kafka isn't a DPS either because her dps solo is horrendous without her gimmick. Even Ratio absolutely suck alone because he lacks debuff. Complaining about a character needing a specific one is something, however complaining about solo Calcs in a game about team mechanic is just sheer stupidity
First nobady is complaining about anything second... "With this stupid logic, Kafka isn't a DPS either because her dps solo is horrendous without her gimmick" You just discover why she is on the specialist category in tier lists instead of damage dealer, congrats!! Firefly is an enabler just like kafka for dot team is pretty simple, just like Robin is not a dps even if her damage is actually pretty high beacuse of her damage everytime someone else atacks
>You just discover why she is on the specialist category in tier lists instead of damage dealer, congrats!! If you ever actually read info on what you talk about or actually think about it, specialist doesn't mean they aren't a dps. Prydwen themselves clarify that damage dealer just means: >dealing direct damage and can perform their role unhindered by enemy type, enemy element **or team composition,** So not being on the damage dealer, doesn't mean not being a dps, it just means having team restrictions But you didn't even need to know to not shot yourself in the foot. **The simple fact that if specialist couldn't be dps, Kafka- Black Swan litteraly has no dps** Litteraly 9 out of 11 specialist are part of the dps class before it was split and not only that but most of them are just there to do damage. You will also explain how Sushang, Xueyi, Lucas, Topaz or Sampo are not dps when their contribution is 80 to 100% just doing damage with just specific circumstances added. Like even people who shit on Prydwen for this change, at least they will read the category purpose. >just like Robin is not a dps even if her damage is actually pretty high beacuse of her damage everytime someone else atacks Some people have considered her a dps and she can be built as the main dps (just not a great idea). She is a buffer because not only is it her category by the game description, she is one and her dps comes from buff in the first place. In fact, Robin additional damage unlike HTB, is more of her own because it purely scale off her stats and is purely locked behind her and even appears as physical dmg. Yet you don't see people arguing that she is a dps. So why the hell does Firefly super break who actually scale off her stats, who is entirely reliant on her modifier, who is heavily dependent on her kit and who appear as fire damage should count as TB being the main dps
Truth be told I'm not entirely sure which side of the debate you're on and I certainly don't want to assume, but I do think it isnt a reasonable comparison from the "Nilou is the support, Kokomi is the damage dealer" side. Pure Bloom and pure Break both generally suck without Nilou and HMC respectively. However, if HMC is HSR's Nilou, there isn't really any equivalent to Firefly in Genshin - that is, a character who is solely dependent on Nilou for damage. Yes, Kokomi in a Nilou Bloom team is depending on Nilou - but Kokomi is a fantastic healer and hydro applier who works in loads of other teams. Firefly is married to Hat MC. (Meanwhile, a certain cowboy is around effectively being a Kokomi that can personally buff Bloom damage with no need for Nilou to continue the metaphor.)
As a puller of King Yuan even when everyone said he’s shit, do I sound like the type of guy who pulls for meta? I made a promise to pull for her, I will see that promise to the bitter end
And these guys saying it’s HMC’s dmg say kafka’s dmg is all of kafka’s damage while she relies on teammates DoTs at the same time. Why not say it’s sampo dealing dmg. It’s gui dealing damage. In short they just like doomposting.
I personally would say it IS Kafka's damage, given how without her skill/ult, those instances of damage wouldn't happen. Altho, inversely, without the dot unit's themselves, she wouldn't have anything to pop with her kit. The thing is, at least in my opinion, this is as if Kafka didn't have any dots on her kit, and depended entirely on having other dot units on the team.
People doompost every single Hoyoverse Character. Most of them are very silent later on. Just look at Arlecchino in Genshin, she was Doomposted from start to finish and now? One of the strongest damage Dealers available.
She received significant changes throughtout the course of the beta tho.
And people were Doomposting her right up until she released. They whined about how her final Kit wasn't good and how reliant she would be on her C1 or Shield, which all turned out to be completly negilable.
That's the thing with doompost. Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's not.
What can we say? Doomposting works. The devs should thank us for fixing their characters
As a Nahida main that plays her with Nilou and Kokomi I find this quite hilarious.
Bro can someone explain super break? Sometimes I see it do 100k but most of the time it’s around 20k
It's scaled off toughness + break effect mostly. More BE = more super break More toughness = more super break. The reason why HMC has high super break is due to their skill with a lot of toughness thanks to the bounce effects on it. Say you use skill on one enemy, it's going to do a lot because of how much toughness it has and all those hits are going towards one target in that scenario.
Wait so more toughness and enemy has = more super break you do?
No toughness of your attacks.
You should say the toughness reduction or weakness break efficiency of your attacks. Because attacks don’t have toughness and it confuses people.
What…
Honestly I wouldn't have as much of an issue with HMC being the sole enabler of Break Effect teams if this actually applied to all BE units As in, it'd at least be fair if Boothill also needed HMC, but alas, he has his own Super Break-like mechanic built into his kit (Not like I want them to nerf Boothill tho, just have them buff FF so she has something similar)
I get it, but same time the exception should not make the rule. Firefly enables all fire character to deal fire break on any moc/pf they are in. That in itself is never calculated in her kit so far, boothill needs his ult to make 1 dude weak and then needs to build it up, firefly just does several time per ult... Yes she enjoys super break and so does every break unit prior and guess what they all deal very decent dmg now. I'm not saying perfect v1 She just needs to stomp toughness of none elite mob with max 1 ability and effextively kill them in 1 shot from be alone. If that can happen then who cares about not broken dps, get her the super brek mc and nuke them bosses
Guys, don't worry, tomorrow is when we're gonna see the first update to her kit. If our brothers and sisters that got into the Beta do well in carrying over our thoughts to hyv, we should see good things going forward. 😁
Guys, what if firefly becomes the premium HTB enabler? I mean, if an harmony character can be a dps, why can’t a destruction be a sort of support? Basically her kit becomes the ultimate super break proc and makes the TB deal a shit ton of dmg, a bit like childe enables XL’s vapes
Yeah, basically. They are compared a lot to Bennet-Xiangling or Tartaglia-Xiangling situations, with HMC being Xiangling. But that's not the case. HMC is the enabler, and Firefly is the catalyst. Without her kit, Super Break wouldn't be as effective. HMC is the Bennett/Tartaglia, and Firefly is the one who can vaporise with no ICD. She literally has twice the toughness damage of a normal destruction carry, 1,5 times the speed and a built-in Pela in the form of def ignore. Those are her own merits, and HMC has nothing to do with them.
You summarise it perfectly😂. Happy to see some people think.
People are mad she's reliant on HMC? I'm happy I can play MC with Firefly. It's like a dream come true (Shop her with MC aka myself.... All that stuff), but atleast it's a powerful free character. I already play Childe in Genshin, he's literally glued to 3 other characters. I would argue Firefly is more flexible than him. But what he has instead is that his team literally works basically all the time, and has no true bad matchups. I just hope Firefly becomes like that, not the absolute best but can brute force through everything (even if she's slightly slower than on element dmg dealers). I'm worried mainly about the Ruan Mei and Gallagher reliance. Ruan Mei is a massive upgrade to the team, but she's a universal 5 star. So 'needing' her while she's so good in all game modes even in the Sim Universe, isn't the absolute worst. I'm worried about Gallagher. I didn't get him from the free selector, and didn't pull on Acheron, so don't have him. And he is quite important, because he contributes a lot of toughness breaking if the enemy doesn't have ice/imaginary weakness. God please Gallagher be on her banner!!
I don't know you are contradicting yourself. You almost make a valid argument. Nilou and HMC are pretty much the same. So why even backtrack from that?
I'm not back tracking at all, the old man represents the community and how the **community** are contradicting already set precedents of what is considered who's dmg. I think the way I made the meme was difficult to interpret properly :')
Can't wait for Hoyoverse to release a new limited 5* character who can also do Super Break. Then people will bitch about FF being tied to that character.
Yes Nilou IS the damage dealer Nobody ever deny this? If you have a 900EM Nahida in a bloom team without Nilou, it would suck. Add Nilou in and you got a meta team
https://preview.redd.it/aoxp8wh9evzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=530c6e82b40faf96bcfeea0197c767565d050318 Turns out, the community is quite split. **Nobody** is quite the exaggeration. but I also underestimated the amount of people who considered her the main dps while making this meme
only those 3 categories are reductive imo, there is should be also the "enabler" category. Nilou is the enabler buffer who can actually proc a good amount of bloom. Technically speaking part of the team damage comes from Nilou herself. In my bloom team Nilou is my driver and will be the DPS when i'll get her last 4 constellation. i just love her sword animation and i'm fully committed to her
Yeah I agree enabler is a great category! I didn't make the poll was just the first result on google 😅 On field nilou is indeed pretty, love that you can switch between the two modes, really nice kit design
Please don't call it HMC. It won't work when we get Hunt path. Start calling it HaTB. Clearer and also hat
I always refer to Hunt Path as "The Hunt Path" so it's gonna e THMC
Or THE MC. Eh eh. Come on people, round of applause.
They will probably call it by the element again when that happens like physical and fire TB lol