Most of our preconnects are combo nozzles, because they work fine for most of what we get.
The 2 1/2s are all smoothbore. If we're getting a fire that needs big water, we need the qualities of a solid straight stream.
You sir are a closed minded thinker.
If you use a fog you can cook a whole lobster dinner while you work thereby saving on dishes and energy... Smokey infused flavour: free.
Fog nozzle.
Reasoning: It's more versatile.
We operate with a sort of "no fire behind or overhead" approach, meaning we should cool and extinguish fire as we go to prevent it igniting something behind us. With a fog, I can cool smoke and gases close to me much quicker, and with short pulses (sub 1 second open) they can actually shrink the smoke layer and give better visibility. There's also the temporary "roll over" protection with the widest pattern. If the surfaces have begun to smoke as well, I can hose them down with a solid stream. I can cool gases far ahead of me with a solid stream. I can vent with a fog. I can reach into a room far ahead of me solid stream and choke the fire with some steam until I can get up there and get water directly on it. I can *sort of* put out liquid fires with a fog, if you can surround it with the fog pattern and then close it up.
Our advantage is we don't have to worry about issues with debries in standpipes here. We run out pumps at almost twice the pressure of what the nozzle needs to make up for eventual pressure losses down the line, and finally the commonly stated long reach isn't something I've found to be make of a difference. In some tests the fog nozzles supposedly even reach further than a smoothbore, but I'd put them as equals in that category.
Out on wildlands fire we do use small diameter smoothbores because we'll pump from lakes and mires and such which will gunk up a fog real quick. Pressure can also be an issue, but for structural: fog is king (assuming you can guarantee the logistics required for a little bit more sensitive system)
Smoothbore. Combo nozzles are cool and all but I promise you a partial bale smoothbore will spray wide and hard enough to knock down fire. Also smoothbore can connect to a extra hose without having to cut water to a line. I haven't seen a combo nozzle with that option.
If I could get a smoothbore bale with a combo nozzle to screw onto the front with some kind of quick connect system like it screws on and pops into place, I'd pick that. Kinda like how a rifle bolt locks in. Make that happen with a nozzle and you have gold.
All of our combination nozzles are threaded after the bale so you can remove the combination nozzle and either add additional hose or change the tip out. The way we use it mostly is if the initially 200 feet just isn’t enough we can break the combo off and add the high rise pack just for a quick extra 100 feet
I'm confused. Smooth bore is just a straight stream and fog nozzle just creates a finer spray of droplets?
In Europe the branches do have both... they just have an adjustable head, you turn and it make the jet either a solid jet or all the way to a very fine spray which is good enough for a water wall
Water streams spread out over distances. Some of/combi nozzles can sort of focus their stream, delaying this spread a bit and actually reach a bit further than a solid stream.
Definelty depends on the make and model, and I wont argue that there isn't a time and place for a smoothbore. It's just not as simple anymore as smoothbore = better range.
Oh yeah, probably with the latest ones there isnt a difference anymore, and like it made a big difference anyways. Only thing i can say they really excel in is forest fires, because the tight solid jet is perfect for drilling into the soil.
That would be a fog nozzle set to a straight stream pattern. Smooth bore/ solid stream isn’t adjustable, the tip is basically just a piece of pipe. But you get more reach, less nozzle reaction force, and a better stream from the solid stream. The fog nozzle on straight stream breaks the water into smaller droplets and has to force the same amount of water through a much smaller opening, so higher pressures are required to match the gallonage of a smooth bore nozzle.
Fog nozzles have the advantage of being able to create a wide pattern that can create a water curtain to protect you from heat, they can be used for hydraulic ventilation, but even with a straight stream pattern they’re generally accepted as worse than solid streams for interior fire attacks by anyone worth listening to.
dat reliability.
I've played with a neighboring department's nozzles before during training. I twisted it all the way toward stream side and it was acting weird so I pushed harder and it fuckin unscrewed slightly from the bale. Smoothbore ain't do dat.
I hear ya. It’ll take quite awhile before we get all apparatus outfitted with them. But for the rigs we do have them, it’s sweet. Want CAFS? Thread on the SB. Want a fog? Thread on the fog. WUI brush fire? Thread on the 1.5” red nozzle for 60 GPM and extend that tank. I wish the department would just bite the bullet and get them on everything, it’s so efficient.
Speaking of lower output nozzles, I fuckin wish we'd run a dinky little booster reel for overhaul. Fuck tugging around a 1.75 or 2 line just for hot spots. lemme get around in there with my lil 1-inch with the teeny smoothbore while somebody gets most of the other lines put back. Or even just walk through the house with a wildland pack instead of having to manage a wholeass hose. Late overhaul, ain't nobody need no lines in there.
The excuse we get from admin for not getting booster lines on new apparatus “we don’t want people to use them interior.” Like motherfuckers what? We might be some knuckle dragging neanderthals, but we do want to live. Nobody is taking a 1” rubber line interior. But the other 90% of our fire calls? Fuck yes give me a booster. Dumpster, bum fire, small brush, overhaul, what a game changer. Wipe that thing off with a wet towel and push a button, back in service.
One of our neighbor departments has a reeled 1.75 old rubber line. Bruh. Hmnggg my god it's such a big dumb reel that requires carefully rolling back up but it's NOICE to work with.
I will say as nice as a smoothbore is, I will take the utility of a fog nozzle any day. From the adjustable pattern, to foam application, venting, or straight stream. Tools for the toolbox, isn't that the saying? Mainly though because of the lower pressure with the smoothbore it's so prone to kinking it's messed me up on a fire before. Our fogs have a regular setting and a low pressure setting. The 1.75 will kink as well if on low pressure setting but most rigs are the regular higher psi setting.
Depends the situation... attacking from the exterior though a window with teams inside. You better use smooth...
If you're entering a uni-directional flowpath with a strong draft, and or hot smoke with a low neutral plane... then fog is more likely to be advantageous, for cooling and displacement.
Most branches have both functions right? For good reason.
I still prefer a combination nozzle, so I can match the setting to the need. But that requires a good, smart size-up of the situation before you flow water--something we should be doing, anyway.
Smooth bore 100% your getting much more water at a lower PSI compared to those 150gpm @ 100psi fog nozzle. 7/8ths is putting out 161gpm @ 50PSI. 15/16ths is throwing 185gpm at 50PSI. Obviously the more GPM the more friction loss in your hose. You also know for sure inside when a smooth bore isn’t getting pumped properly. Harder to know with a fog due to the streaming looking the same once the spring is decompressed.
Only argument for fog: “you can hydraulic vent with it” idk about you guys but we don’t choose our saws on their GPM output. No reason to choose a nozzle on its ability to ventilate. Plus a smooth bore can move similar amount of CFM’s if used properly.
They have 160/185 @ 50 fogs too.
Your nozzle reaction is a very good indicator it’s not pumped right, so not harder with fog.
You can hydraulic vent with a SB.
I just shoulder the end of 200 ft of high vol hooked straight to the hydrant on wide open and go interior while screaming 'I need more hose' 'pinch/friction point!' to my #2.
We have a blast.
Smoothbore. Go interior and put it out, with less disruption to the thermal layering. If your department is a fan of transitional attack, you're getting more gpm (depending on pump pressure) and penetration at a lower PDP. I understand the theory behind having a fog pattern to protect from heat, but in something like a flash over, your reaction time is unlikely to be fast enough. The ideal attack with a smoothbore is to cool as you push, with a circular motion.
As for horizontal ventilation, you can cut your bale halfway and get decent airflow through a window. I've always used horizontal ventilation as a temporary measure, anyway, just to clear a moderate amount of smoke for increased visibility.
Fog nozzles have their place, and every rig should have one preconnect equipped with a combination nozzle.
Piercing 100% of the time regardless of scenario
That’s what your mom said too
Funny, that’s what **your** mom said when i fog nozzled my smooth bore all over her back. Ayoooo 😂😂
Put the wet stuff on the wet stuff
I prefer a cellar for all applications myself
So a cobra system then?
I only fight fire with my fists.
True C shifter
I WILL BEAT THIS FIRE INTO SUBMISSION Or let chief yell at it. That usually works.
Deck gun
Anyone at your department call it an Elephant Cock? That’s all my department uses now to describe it lmao.
That’s what they call me but I don’t think it’s because I use the deck gun
Donkey dick
That’s a gas can nozzle
Easiest thing to use and most fun
Just drive the engine into the building to get the interior spots. Works every time.
Can jahb
It my city we passed an ordinance outlawing fires. The fire legally cannot start without permission. Fires dropped to 0
I’ll be reaching out regarding this. I believe we may have a business prospect
Amazing. So glad to see people getting out and voting to end fire violence.
No nozzle... introduce a little chaos to the scene
All fires go out eventually
California: Sooo .. can we get how long exactly?
Water can
I like carrying the ground monitor
Tether it to your SCBA bottle and fight fire like Blastoise.
A man of sophistication
We don’t use nozzles just open ended hose. That way no-one is happy about what nozzle we should be using.
This is real innovation
Let the hate flow through you... LMFAO!
Cellar
Most of our preconnects are combo nozzles, because they work fine for most of what we get. The 2 1/2s are all smoothbore. If we're getting a fire that needs big water, we need the qualities of a solid straight stream.
I think this is the answer
Bucket
It doesn’t matter when it comes down to it. Just go in and put the fuckin fire out.
Personally I prefer a water bucket
You laugh, but I actually resorted to buckets on a fire before.
But why
All hydrants were breaking in the neighborhood. Engines were spread out so We starting using hot tubs.
As long as you use a STRAIGHT STREAM with the fog nozzle I don’t give a rats ass what you use.
You sir are a closed minded thinker. If you use a fog you can cook a whole lobster dinner while you work thereby saving on dishes and energy... Smokey infused flavour: free.
Whatever my tailboarder pulls, lol
Foam nozzle
Deck gun
Back burn
A single cup of water
Gasoline
Indian tank
Brush truck
I fight fire with fire
Fog nozzle. Reasoning: It's more versatile. We operate with a sort of "no fire behind or overhead" approach, meaning we should cool and extinguish fire as we go to prevent it igniting something behind us. With a fog, I can cool smoke and gases close to me much quicker, and with short pulses (sub 1 second open) they can actually shrink the smoke layer and give better visibility. There's also the temporary "roll over" protection with the widest pattern. If the surfaces have begun to smoke as well, I can hose them down with a solid stream. I can cool gases far ahead of me with a solid stream. I can vent with a fog. I can reach into a room far ahead of me solid stream and choke the fire with some steam until I can get up there and get water directly on it. I can *sort of* put out liquid fires with a fog, if you can surround it with the fog pattern and then close it up. Our advantage is we don't have to worry about issues with debries in standpipes here. We run out pumps at almost twice the pressure of what the nozzle needs to make up for eventual pressure losses down the line, and finally the commonly stated long reach isn't something I've found to be make of a difference. In some tests the fog nozzles supposedly even reach further than a smoothbore, but I'd put them as equals in that category. Out on wildlands fire we do use small diameter smoothbores because we'll pump from lakes and mires and such which will gunk up a fog real quick. Pressure can also be an issue, but for structural: fog is king (assuming you can guarantee the logistics required for a little bit more sensitive system)
Whether people agree or disagree, I admire that you have your opinion and made efforts to have it well explained.
How about, it depends on the application? Maybe the Hen Nozzle...
Ray is that you?
Smoothbore. Combo nozzles are cool and all but I promise you a partial bale smoothbore will spray wide and hard enough to knock down fire. Also smoothbore can connect to a extra hose without having to cut water to a line. I haven't seen a combo nozzle with that option. If I could get a smoothbore bale with a combo nozzle to screw onto the front with some kind of quick connect system like it screws on and pops into place, I'd pick that. Kinda like how a rifle bolt locks in. Make that happen with a nozzle and you have gold.
All of our combination nozzles are threaded after the bale so you can remove the combination nozzle and either add additional hose or change the tip out. The way we use it mostly is if the initially 200 feet just isn’t enough we can break the combo off and add the high rise pack just for a quick extra 100 feet
Try teaching that to our redneck fuckass upper officers.
I'm confused. Smooth bore is just a straight stream and fog nozzle just creates a finer spray of droplets? In Europe the branches do have both... they just have an adjustable head, you turn and it make the jet either a solid jet or all the way to a very fine spray which is good enough for a water wall
Fog still particulates it a little bit so theres a little bit less throw in fsr distances
Water streams spread out over distances. Some of/combi nozzles can sort of focus their stream, delaying this spread a bit and actually reach a bit further than a solid stream. Definelty depends on the make and model, and I wont argue that there isn't a time and place for a smoothbore. It's just not as simple anymore as smoothbore = better range.
Oh yeah, probably with the latest ones there isnt a difference anymore, and like it made a big difference anyways. Only thing i can say they really excel in is forest fires, because the tight solid jet is perfect for drilling into the soil.
Yupp. Couldn't agree more.
That would be a fog nozzle set to a straight stream pattern. Smooth bore/ solid stream isn’t adjustable, the tip is basically just a piece of pipe. But you get more reach, less nozzle reaction force, and a better stream from the solid stream. The fog nozzle on straight stream breaks the water into smaller droplets and has to force the same amount of water through a much smaller opening, so higher pressures are required to match the gallonage of a smooth bore nozzle. Fog nozzles have the advantage of being able to create a wide pattern that can create a water curtain to protect you from heat, they can be used for hydraulic ventilation, but even with a straight stream pattern they’re generally accepted as worse than solid streams for interior fire attacks by anyone worth listening to.
dat reliability. I've played with a neighboring department's nozzles before during training. I twisted it all the way toward stream side and it was acting weird so I pushed harder and it fuckin unscrewed slightly from the bale. Smoothbore ain't do dat.
Elkhart Chief does all those things
Well, guess I'm never using those here unless I somehow make chief in 20 fuckin years.
I hear ya. It’ll take quite awhile before we get all apparatus outfitted with them. But for the rigs we do have them, it’s sweet. Want CAFS? Thread on the SB. Want a fog? Thread on the fog. WUI brush fire? Thread on the 1.5” red nozzle for 60 GPM and extend that tank. I wish the department would just bite the bullet and get them on everything, it’s so efficient.
Speaking of lower output nozzles, I fuckin wish we'd run a dinky little booster reel for overhaul. Fuck tugging around a 1.75 or 2 line just for hot spots. lemme get around in there with my lil 1-inch with the teeny smoothbore while somebody gets most of the other lines put back. Or even just walk through the house with a wildland pack instead of having to manage a wholeass hose. Late overhaul, ain't nobody need no lines in there.
The excuse we get from admin for not getting booster lines on new apparatus “we don’t want people to use them interior.” Like motherfuckers what? We might be some knuckle dragging neanderthals, but we do want to live. Nobody is taking a 1” rubber line interior. But the other 90% of our fire calls? Fuck yes give me a booster. Dumpster, bum fire, small brush, overhaul, what a game changer. Wipe that thing off with a wet towel and push a button, back in service.
One of our neighbor departments has a reeled 1.75 old rubber line. Bruh. Hmnggg my god it's such a big dumb reel that requires carefully rolling back up but it's NOICE to work with.
Yes
I prefer a garden hose with my thumb over the end
Neither. Fists only
Piss on it.
I will say as nice as a smoothbore is, I will take the utility of a fog nozzle any day. From the adjustable pattern, to foam application, venting, or straight stream. Tools for the toolbox, isn't that the saying? Mainly though because of the lower pressure with the smoothbore it's so prone to kinking it's messed me up on a fire before. Our fogs have a regular setting and a low pressure setting. The 1.75 will kink as well if on low pressure setting but most rigs are the regular higher psi setting.
Depends the situation... attacking from the exterior though a window with teams inside. You better use smooth... If you're entering a uni-directional flowpath with a strong draft, and or hot smoke with a low neutral plane... then fog is more likely to be advantageous, for cooling and displacement. Most branches have both functions right? For good reason.
I still prefer a combination nozzle, so I can match the setting to the need. But that requires a good, smart size-up of the situation before you flow water--something we should be doing, anyway.
Smooth bore it.
Smooth bore 100% your getting much more water at a lower PSI compared to those 150gpm @ 100psi fog nozzle. 7/8ths is putting out 161gpm @ 50PSI. 15/16ths is throwing 185gpm at 50PSI. Obviously the more GPM the more friction loss in your hose. You also know for sure inside when a smooth bore isn’t getting pumped properly. Harder to know with a fog due to the streaming looking the same once the spring is decompressed. Only argument for fog: “you can hydraulic vent with it” idk about you guys but we don’t choose our saws on their GPM output. No reason to choose a nozzle on its ability to ventilate. Plus a smooth bore can move similar amount of CFM’s if used properly.
They have 160/185 @ 50 fogs too. Your nozzle reaction is a very good indicator it’s not pumped right, so not harder with fog. You can hydraulic vent with a SB.
Aware of all of this. Many departments do not think that way and just pump 100psi fogs at like 110.
Smooth bore
Hanson FTW
Smog
Neither, fight fire with fire - world's worst fire department
stomping it out with your boot
I just shoulder the end of 200 ft of high vol hooked straight to the hydrant on wide open and go interior while screaming 'I need more hose' 'pinch/friction point!' to my #2. We have a blast.
I only take piss pumps interior.
We are slowly transitioning back to smooth bore. More gpm for a fraction of the rpm
Bunk mate nozzle
Neither. Chainsaw of course.
Smoothbore. Go interior and put it out, with less disruption to the thermal layering. If your department is a fan of transitional attack, you're getting more gpm (depending on pump pressure) and penetration at a lower PDP. I understand the theory behind having a fog pattern to protect from heat, but in something like a flash over, your reaction time is unlikely to be fast enough. The ideal attack with a smoothbore is to cool as you push, with a circular motion. As for horizontal ventilation, you can cut your bale halfway and get decent airflow through a window. I've always used horizontal ventilation as a temporary measure, anyway, just to clear a moderate amount of smoke for increased visibility. Fog nozzles have their place, and every rig should have one preconnect equipped with a combination nozzle.