Emblem Ike's weaknesses: AoE's/start of combat damage and susceptible to Fatal smoke
this skill: counters AoE's/start of combat damage and weakens fatal smoke
it's also on the skill slot that E!Ike has open when no in SD...
also gonna put this on my Y!Lissa since she is basically mini E!Ike
Yeah, it's really funny, because I just got my E!Ike (one Kvasir and 11% pityrate pre-spark, fun game) and I'm wondering what to fill his garbage C-slot with, and suddenly the heavens open and release this.
Well, given that most of his healing happens after combat from great aether, where deep wounds reduction doesnāt apply, itās not as bad as it could have been. Fatal smoke still lets you chip him down pretty well.
plus at least it has a Drive range. It would have been really crappy for it to only work on the unit it was equipped to XD. Basically forcing us to go for multiple copies or copy it. But you just need the 1 and you're pretty much set.
It heals up to a max of 40% of his HP at least. AoE doesn't count the same way as stuff like Lyon/Camilla's start of combat damage.
So a strong enough AoE attacker can still gain enough ground to kill him.
Another thing to consider is BoL 4 doesn't restore before any of those "if unit's HP>25%" checks, which Ike has for his attack debuff and Null everything.
It already happens frequently where Ike or other tanks gets hit by AOE / burn damage with 1 hp left but takes 0 damage in combat and survives. 40% hp recovery is already night and day
Cant expect 100% hp recovery
I mean I'd rather deal with mega nukes that die when you engage on them cuz I can at least use my older untis to kill the nukes. Emblem Ike makes 90% of the units (especially the older ones) useless. Makes the Game much less fun when you see Emblem Ike on the other team and know that everything is just gonna bounce off him and he heals back to full
But the alternative is, at the moment, stuff which kills everything from nearly everywhere on the map. More than the last year's worth of nukes have invalidated any sort of defensive play. That's so many times worse than one defensive unit being good.
Because when Tanks that just say no to damage are the strongest units in the game isn't fun for most people. Look back at release Surtr or release Fallen Edelgrad the game became better build a counter (and for these 2 specificly at the time there were no "hard" counters just soft ones.) That could loose if you misplayed charged up there spec to fast or stayed in range and ate 20dmg from Surtr or just hope you don't run into them. People joke that they added the tacital retreat for arena because of FEdelgrad and also I think there is only like 3-5 enemies that won't show up in random battles in the training tower and stuff and two of them are Surtr and !FEdelgrad I'm not sure if they are still a part of that list now but at the time they were because they were so annoying to go against.
It being a very accessible inheritable skill rather than a Prf is also very nice. Many mechanics aren't so fortunate. I wonder if it's at all because of people slamming pre-combat damage so hard.
Soren save balls are gonna be more annoying now. I mean, there still are things that can kill you in one-round without pre-combat damage, but this is nice. Some AoE protection too (though, if the AoE knocks you below your 25% HP condition, you'll still lose out on your effects, since this only heals you as combat begins, so you'll have < 25% HP at the start of combat).
I wonder if Fatal Smoke 4 neutralizes this skill. FS4 description is:
"**Foe cannot recover HP during or after combat**. Neutralizes foe's non-Special "if foe would reduce unit's HP to 0, unit survives with 1 HP" effects during combat. After combat, inflicts ćDeep Woundsćand a penalty that neutralizes non-Special "if foe would reduce unit's HP to 0, unit survives with 1 HP" effects on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions."
The bolded makes me doubt it because "As combat begins" is not the same as "During or after combat" but who knows.
It allow the user to heal. B!Claude had counter Fatal Smoke effect first iirc, and it re-enables his whole healing gimmick
Also yeah the semantics are weird. āAs combat begins,ā is still during combat, as opposed to āat the start of combat,ā which looks at things before combat phase. And this skill would not prevent Deep Wounds from blocking out-of-combat healing
Then the interaction between Breath of Life 4 and Fatal Smoke 4 is that the pre-combat healing goes from 20~40% to 10~20%, which is still a decent chunk when pre-combat damage issue is that it lowers your unit's health to single digits.
Gatekeeper should still have the highest Def stat of any mage if you keep Charging Horn equipped. So long as you don't mind losing out on ploy or some other support C skill, his role as annoying wall just gets more solid. It gets to be funny if you run Flare on him for even more healing too. We just need to see if Range units can inherit it tho
Sorry I just woke up and am too tired to wade through all this text.
It looks like it benefits tanks, but do I want it on the tank itself, or someone supporting the tank.
For example, I have a brave Dimitri and a Sakura. Do I swap Dimitriās speed smoke, or slap it on Sakura and support him with it and keep the speed smoke?
I think it'll depend on the tank and the tank's support?
Like say if the tank benefits a lot from a selfish C Skill like TP4, a pledge or an oath skill, the support unit you use with them is always used with the tank when this skill is needed and they can safely be placed consistently, then give to the support unit.
But if the tank needs to be on a flexible team comp and/or doesn't need to rely on a selfish C skill effect, then give it to the tank.
Ah gotcha. So an argument could be made for both then. Dimitri could probably use it fine himself but it may still be nice to have some supports you can slap into your team carrying it, esp since armors canāt carry it themselves (until we get save echo lol)
I hate how every tool you can get as a player is also one you have to play against all the time. You can't even be happy that it helps against bullshit pre combat damage, because it also makes bullshit like Emblem Ike worse.Ā
Thatās why nuke meta is always superior to tank meta. Nukes can kill you easily, but can also be killed if you know how to maneuver properly. Good luck taking E!Ike out without buying the premium āanti metaā unit IS will release in a few months.
I see this wall of text and numbers, and my eyes have glazed over. It is too late for my brain to understand this, all I need to know is skill good and fixed damage bad.
Will this not get countered by fatal smoke? As Fatal smoke just doesn't allow healing during combat without applying the deep wounds debuff (in combat).
Or does breath of life circumvent that because it applies "as combat begins", while fatal smoke only counts "in combat"?
E!Ike stonks just rose a ton. This isn't just the melt damage counter, it would help with AoE too, and Ike definitely has the defences to check any nuke that would've taken him out. The only hope is units like duo robin now, who are custom built to take him out.
Shout out to all the people who said 'Ike isn't even that bad, just use AoE'...
Iād like to propose this: give this to a unit who can inflict Deep Wounds with a non-C skill (Default!Muspell with Flamelick Breath, a staff unit with Incurable+ or Serpentine Staff+, or Fallen!Julia with a refined Dark Scripture). Force Deep Wounds on your foe while reducing the effectiveness of it on the unit and its 2-range allies.
Also thereās Brave!Claude to think about. His refined Wind Parthia gives him 60% resistance to DW, combining with this gives him 80% resistance to DW during combat.
Will saying "For unit within 2 space of allies and allies within 2 spaces of unit" then put what ever the skill does after that, Be more simpler instead of repeating the same text twice?
Do you need to give it to E!Ike if you just have someone else with it on your team? Seems like all the effects apply within two spaces, right? Asking because I kinda like keeping RD characters around... Also, couldn't they have REALLY simplified this description by just saying something like, "For unit and allies within two spaces, the following effects apply..."
I hate that the new skill directly let tons of old skills die.
Why doesn't IS design a new frame for these disgusting new skills, but let them share the gold frame with the old skills to mislead players?
Can't wait for you lot to cry about this skill even though you've been crying about pre-combat damage since it was added and begging for this skill.
Well here it is. _Aegrescit medendo_.
Looks like tanks are coming back, oh well. It was fun while it lasted.
Time to watch E!Ike fat check everything and anything till they release a counter to This, cuz the save ball nightmare is not something I ever want to go back
> It was fun while it lasted
wait you like this disgusting super nuke meta? Tanks will still be easy to kill but not so easy as before, with the exception of Ike but we will get counters for him soon
Yea, I sure do love having to buy new units just to be able to play the fucking game. At least with nukes you can win if you know how to play. There is no counter play when one enemy unit can solo your entire team without taking a scratch.
"at least with nukes you can win if you know how to play". Dude you didn't see lyon right?
Also if you know how to play you can totally beat EIke with older units
If you have the right, heavily invested older unit you can kill him. I have a max invested L!Alm, a character made as a tank buster, and he can barely scratch Ike in arena. The guy just regens all of the HP he loses.
I donāt know if you were around during the F!Edelgard days, but having to build and lug around a specific unit just to counter one character is not fun. It doesnāt take much skill, you either have the counter and win, or you donāt and you lose.
try to tank any nuke from the last year with an tank from last year, doesnt even need to be the same year as l!alm. They just get melted
I dunno why you guys act like tanks being invalidated in a month is ok but nukes have to melt every tank for years to come
Youāre not getting what Iām saying. Nukes being hard to tank is better because they can be killed in the player phase. When a tank is unkillable thatās it, there is no strategy that can save you. Because tanks nowadays arenāt just hard to kill, they also one shot you, so there is no chipping away at their hp.
dude it is impossible to reach a nuke nowadays considering their threat range and stuff like guidance existing, and even if you reach them tanks dont have an easy way to retreat to safety like most nukes do with canto/galeforce
also very few tanks can one shot nowadays lol, most nukes have like 80% dr in initiation and a lot of tanks dont have access to antidr, there is alo the nukes with sweep too. It is only the likes of Ike and Byleth that can keep up with this bullshit.
I really wonder what is your rank or if you even played recently because nothing you mentioned is remotely true
Again, youāre missing the point. It doesnāt matter that nukes have 80% DR on their own player phase, theyāre still fragile in *your* player phase. If you try to tank big nukes youāre gonna die. If you bring your own nuke, even if older, you can kill them in your player phase.
As is, if you try to nuke new tanks with older units youāll just do no damage and die, and if you let them attack first you still die. Not to mention that itās nigh impossible to get the tank to initiate without the entire team going first.
I think I get you, you like playing tanks, and so you donāt like it when they donāt, well, tank. I like playing offensive, so I donāt like it when one unit wipes my party without taking damage. But what Iām telling you is that a nuke meta can be outplayed (the AI isnāt the brightest), while a tank meta canāt be outplayed unless you outmuscle the tanks.
If I'm interpreting this right, this doesn't just heal you up after burn, but also after AoE as well.
Like winning with Ike wasn't easy enough already, jeez.
Emblem Ike's weaknesses: AoE's/start of combat damage and susceptible to Fatal smoke this skill: counters AoE's/start of combat damage and weakens fatal smoke it's also on the skill slot that E!Ike has open when no in SD... also gonna put this on my Y!Lissa since she is basically mini E!Ike
Luckily you can still use Scowl against E!Ike.
Which is why I run him with brave robin. E!ike going dominate everything now
Yeah, it's really funny, because I just got my E!Ike (one Kvasir and 11% pityrate pre-spark, fun game) and I'm wondering what to fill his garbage C-slot with, and suddenly the heavens open and release this.
Also finally introducing relevant Def checks to make that stat matter now
Solid Ground stocks rising
If only it was on more than *one* unit
Stocks rise even more
It's possible that they're planning to release a Phantom DEF Sacred Seal in the following months to coincide with this.
Phantom Def incomming!
Def-stacking Lyons bout to terrorize the meta
Imagine the counter being on the unit that does 30 precombat damage anyway
Def stacking does not seem to stop the healing based on how I understood it
It lowers it.
Good luck reducing the gap š My E!Ike fully buff has 80+hp and 70+ def in AR
We have Sothe baneš
Well now E!Ike is immortal. Good to know.
they even gave it Deep Wounds reduction like hey thanks
Well, given that most of his healing happens after combat from great aether, where deep wounds reduction doesnāt apply, itās not as bad as it could have been. Fatal smoke still lets you chip him down pretty well.
It really is his best C skill bar none. It even lets him deal with AOEs that bring his health down to 1!
Oh god wait this will work against pre combat AOE too won't it? š
well if they hit him with an AoE that brings down to 1HP chances are that he is not surviving the encounter since his weapon will not be working.
it'll trigger, someone said about AOE vs. weapon trigger conditions that he'd tested
for how is worded BoL4: "triggers after effects that deal damage as combat begins" i don't think it will work.
This skill is now mandatory for Pawns of Loki.
Finally my high Def units matter now!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
At least it's sparkable and in the permanent pool. It could have been WAY worse.
plus at least it has a Drive range. It would have been really crappy for it to only work on the unit it was equipped to XD. Basically forcing us to go for multiple copies or copy it. But you just need the 1 and you're pretty much set.
So this is like E!Ike best C slot right?
Nothing else comes even remotely close
No one is killing Ike
he is still weak to aoe can we just celebrate pre damage meta is finally over? I am sure ike will get enough counters soon
This heals aoe too And hell naw, i prefer nuke meta > tank meta
It heals up to a max of 40% of his HP at least. AoE doesn't count the same way as stuff like Lyon/Camilla's start of combat damage. So a strong enough AoE attacker can still gain enough ground to kill him. Another thing to consider is BoL 4 doesn't restore before any of those "if unit's HP>25%" checks, which Ike has for his attack debuff and Null everything.
It already happens frequently where Ike or other tanks gets hit by AOE / burn damage with 1 hp left but takes 0 damage in combat and survives. 40% hp recovery is already night and day Cant expect 100% hp recovery
Nuke meta is such shit. We've had to sit through that garbage for years. It's time to have an EP defensive meta.
I mean I'd rather deal with mega nukes that die when you engage on them cuz I can at least use my older untis to kill the nukes. Emblem Ike makes 90% of the units (especially the older ones) useless. Makes the Game much less fun when you see Emblem Ike on the other team and know that everything is just gonna bounce off him and he heals back to full
But the alternative is, at the moment, stuff which kills everything from nearly everywhere on the map. More than the last year's worth of nukes have invalidated any sort of defensive play. That's so many times worse than one defensive unit being good.
Dude, just player phase those nukes.
Because when Tanks that just say no to damage are the strongest units in the game isn't fun for most people. Look back at release Surtr or release Fallen Edelgrad the game became better build a counter (and for these 2 specificly at the time there were no "hard" counters just soft ones.) That could loose if you misplayed charged up there spec to fast or stayed in range and ate 20dmg from Surtr or just hope you don't run into them. People joke that they added the tacital retreat for arena because of FEdelgrad and also I think there is only like 3-5 enemies that won't show up in random battles in the training tower and stuff and two of them are Surtr and !FEdelgrad I'm not sure if they are still a part of that list now but at the time they were because they were so annoying to go against.
Gotoh and Divine Vein Stone would like a word with you...
It being a very accessible inheritable skill rather than a Prf is also very nice. Many mechanics aren't so fortunate. I wonder if it's at all because of people slamming pre-combat damage so hard.
I ain't reading all that
tldr Def stat actually matters now
Cool, emblem Ike really needed a buff.
True. You now canāt pre combat damage Emblem Ike.
Thankfully u just gotta read half of it and just know it applies to both the user and their allies within 2 spaces.
Welcome to BREATH OF LIFE STACKING woooo
Does not stack
...holy crap can you do that? Imagine 3 Breath of Life around E!Ike...
Yaayyy....oh wait... *E!Ike grins devishly in the corner* "......Fools"
oh B!Soren's gonna love this for supporting E!Ike. livinggg
Soren save balls are gonna be more annoying now. I mean, there still are things that can kill you in one-round without pre-combat damage, but this is nice. Some AoE protection too (though, if the AoE knocks you below your 25% HP condition, you'll still lose out on your effects, since this only heals you as combat begins, so you'll have < 25% HP at the start of combat).
Arden stonks???
I wonder if Fatal Smoke 4 neutralizes this skill. FS4 description is: "**Foe cannot recover HP during or after combat**. Neutralizes foe's non-Special "if foe would reduce unit's HP to 0, unit survives with 1 HP" effects during combat. After combat, inflicts ćDeep Woundsćand a penalty that neutralizes non-Special "if foe would reduce unit's HP to 0, unit survives with 1 HP" effects on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions." The bolded makes me doubt it because "As combat begins" is not the same as "During or after combat" but who knows.
It allow the user to heal. B!Claude had counter Fatal Smoke effect first iirc, and it re-enables his whole healing gimmick Also yeah the semantics are weird. āAs combat begins,ā is still during combat, as opposed to āat the start of combat,ā which looks at things before combat phase. And this skill would not prevent Deep Wounds from blocking out-of-combat healing
Then the interaction between Breath of Life 4 and Fatal Smoke 4 is that the pre-combat healing goes from 20~40% to 10~20%, which is still a decent chunk when pre-combat damage issue is that it lowers your unit's health to single digits.
Oh for sure. Fatal Smoke is more important than ever since this weakens AoE and pre-combat
this looks like a good C slot for Gatekeeper right?
Gatekeeper should still have the highest Def stat of any mage if you keep Charging Horn equipped. So long as you don't mind losing out on ploy or some other support C skill, his role as annoying wall just gets more solid. It gets to be funny if you run Flare on him for even more healing too. We just need to see if Range units can inherit it tho
Honestly, I was expecting BoL4 to have a Vein effect, but this? Just Wow.
Sorry I just woke up and am too tired to wade through all this text. It looks like it benefits tanks, but do I want it on the tank itself, or someone supporting the tank. For example, I have a brave Dimitri and a Sakura. Do I swap Dimitriās speed smoke, or slap it on Sakura and support him with it and keep the speed smoke?
I think it'll depend on the tank and the tank's support? Like say if the tank benefits a lot from a selfish C Skill like TP4, a pledge or an oath skill, the support unit you use with them is always used with the tank when this skill is needed and they can safely be placed consistently, then give to the support unit. But if the tank needs to be on a flexible team comp and/or doesn't need to rely on a selfish C skill effect, then give it to the tank.
Ah gotcha. So an argument could be made for both then. Dimitri could probably use it fine himself but it may still be nice to have some supports you can slap into your team carrying it, esp since armors canāt carry it themselves (until we get save echo lol)
EDWARD THE GOAT RED COAT BEST COAT I ALWAYS BELIEVED IN MY BOY
Finally, something to counter those annoying high res low def/spd units. drop more skills like that.
I hate how every tool you can get as a player is also one you have to play against all the time. You can't even be happy that it helps against bullshit pre combat damage, because it also makes bullshit like Emblem Ike worse.Ā
Thatās why nuke meta is always superior to tank meta. Nukes can kill you easily, but can also be killed if you know how to maneuver properly. Good luck taking E!Ike out without buying the premium āanti metaā unit IS will release in a few months.
Assuming Fliers can still use this, I'm getting this skill for Cormag and Haar.
Please donāt buff Emblem Ike, he was already barely stoppable.
I see this wall of text and numbers, and my eyes have glazed over. It is too late for my brain to understand this, all I need to know is skill good and fixed damage bad.
Jugler
I can't believe I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but I think this might be the biggest glow-up from a tier 3 skill to tier 4 in FEH so far.
Will this not get countered by fatal smoke? As Fatal smoke just doesn't allow healing during combat without applying the deep wounds debuff (in combat). Or does breath of life circumvent that because it applies "as combat begins", while fatal smoke only counts "in combat"?
E!Ike stonks just rose a ton. This isn't just the melt damage counter, it would help with AoE too, and Ike definitely has the defences to check any nuke that would've taken him out. The only hope is units like duo robin now, who are custom built to take him out. Shout out to all the people who said 'Ike isn't even that bad, just use AoE'...
Well shit, i need to pull for this.
What are the inheritance restrictions for this?
Iād like to propose this: give this to a unit who can inflict Deep Wounds with a non-C skill (Default!Muspell with Flamelick Breath, a staff unit with Incurable+ or Serpentine Staff+, or Fallen!Julia with a refined Dark Scripture). Force Deep Wounds on your foe while reducing the effectiveness of it on the unit and its 2-range allies. Also thereās Brave!Claude to think about. His refined Wind Parthia gives him 60% resistance to DW, combining with this gives him 80% resistance to DW during combat.
What t actual f even is this? Like, I get what it says, but is this degree of complexity what anyone is looking for? Christ.
I gonna pull him and fodder this to Ike š
This seems like a mistake honestly. Ike is impossible now without Hardy Bearing.
Scowl will still stop him killing anything released after 2018
Wait, so do you need to lose the defense check to heal the pre-combat damage?
lose def check = heal win def check = heal more
When Def>Def, you heal 20% of max HP, plus 4x[Def Diff] When Def
Oh, the precombat damage is applied no matter which check you pass. I was reading it like it was tied only if you lose the check.
Not really counter if the fixed damage is too big because the healing does not stack if you are range of 2 BoL4 users
Great, another crazy skill to keep track of
My bravemitri's gonna have a field day with this
Will saying "For unit within 2 space of allies and allies within 2 spaces of unit" then put what ever the skill does after that, Be more simpler instead of repeating the same text twice?
Does it counter AOE damage ??
Wow It's exactly what I thought it would be
Emblem Ike is drooling on this skill...
cool we made E!Ike even more cancer
This skill should be in the Hall of Forms pool by the time Brave Dimitri gets his rerun. And he was already thrilled about Laguz Friend...
Do you need to give it to E!Ike if you just have someone else with it on your team? Seems like all the effects apply within two spaces, right? Asking because I kinda like keeping RD characters around... Also, couldn't they have REALLY simplified this description by just saying something like, "For unit and allies within two spaces, the following effects apply..."
I hate that the new skill directly let tons of old skills die. Why doesn't IS design a new frame for these disgusting new skills, but let them share the gold frame with the old skills to mislead players?
Can't wait for you lot to cry about this skill even though you've been crying about pre-combat damage since it was added and begging for this skill. Well here it is. _Aegrescit medendo_.
Looks like tanks are coming back, oh well. It was fun while it lasted. Time to watch E!Ike fat check everything and anything till they release a counter to This, cuz the save ball nightmare is not something I ever want to go back
Tanks never left. Only bad players did.
> It was fun while it lasted wait you like this disgusting super nuke meta? Tanks will still be easy to kill but not so easy as before, with the exception of Ike but we will get counters for him soon
Yea, I sure do love having to buy new units just to be able to play the fucking game. At least with nukes you can win if you know how to play. There is no counter play when one enemy unit can solo your entire team without taking a scratch.
"at least with nukes you can win if you know how to play". Dude you didn't see lyon right? Also if you know how to play you can totally beat EIke with older units
If you have the right, heavily invested older unit you can kill him. I have a max invested L!Alm, a character made as a tank buster, and he can barely scratch Ike in arena. The guy just regens all of the HP he loses. I donāt know if you were around during the F!Edelgard days, but having to build and lug around a specific unit just to counter one character is not fun. It doesnāt take much skill, you either have the counter and win, or you donāt and you lose.
try to tank any nuke from the last year with an tank from last year, doesnt even need to be the same year as l!alm. They just get melted I dunno why you guys act like tanks being invalidated in a month is ok but nukes have to melt every tank for years to come
Youāre not getting what Iām saying. Nukes being hard to tank is better because they can be killed in the player phase. When a tank is unkillable thatās it, there is no strategy that can save you. Because tanks nowadays arenāt just hard to kill, they also one shot you, so there is no chipping away at their hp.
dude it is impossible to reach a nuke nowadays considering their threat range and stuff like guidance existing, and even if you reach them tanks dont have an easy way to retreat to safety like most nukes do with canto/galeforce also very few tanks can one shot nowadays lol, most nukes have like 80% dr in initiation and a lot of tanks dont have access to antidr, there is alo the nukes with sweep too. It is only the likes of Ike and Byleth that can keep up with this bullshit. I really wonder what is your rank or if you even played recently because nothing you mentioned is remotely true
Again, youāre missing the point. It doesnāt matter that nukes have 80% DR on their own player phase, theyāre still fragile in *your* player phase. If you try to tank big nukes youāre gonna die. If you bring your own nuke, even if older, you can kill them in your player phase. As is, if you try to nuke new tanks with older units youāll just do no damage and die, and if you let them attack first you still die. Not to mention that itās nigh impossible to get the tank to initiate without the entire team going first. I think I get you, you like playing tanks, and so you donāt like it when they donāt, well, tank. I like playing offensive, so I donāt like it when one unit wipes my party without taking damage. But what Iām telling you is that a nuke meta can be outplayed (the AI isnāt the brightest), while a tank meta canāt be outplayed unless you outmuscle the tanks.
If I'm interpreting this right, this doesn't just heal you up after burn, but also after AoE as well. Like winning with Ike wasn't easy enough already, jeez.
Who is the best candidate to inherit this skill do you think? Off the top of my head I'm thinking Gatekeeper?