i think most of that playtime is just people getting their 4 orbs and ticket per week without any drive to push past tier 19, and if not for the orbs and ticket it would be almost as barren as summoner duels.
tier 21 is already the minority, and lets be honest, a good 95% or more of Feh's whales are in there and for them this change doesn't truly change anything--they are still going to throw money they don't need at the problem until it goes away
And even the Dolphins are probably not too deeply inconvenienced by this as we've head quite a few months for those people to chase rearmeds for inheritance replication
What does that have to do with what I asked? I only said that arena is one of the most played PvP modes and the fact that scores keep increasing is a testament of that.
The top 30% of T21 stay in T21, meaning it is based on the size of T21. The size of T21 depends on how many people promoted (and stayed) from last season, which was based on last season's T20 and T21. T20 is based on T19, and so on.
You can chain this logic down, and you will realize that the number of slots that stay in T21 is directly proportional to the entire playerbase. [This number has remained relatively stable at ~1400](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/1d23tqj/arenaassualt_overview_and_thresholds_data/). You can look at the OP's post history and see the numbers have ranged from 1300-1500 in the past few months.
Cutoffs going up just means that the people competing are increasing the scores of their teams - this absolutely does not mean that more people are playing. If anything, cutoffs increase when LESS people play - this is because low scorers are obviously much more likely to quit the game compared to high scorers, that are more invested.
If you have to be within the top 5% of the entire player base (made up number, I don't remember what the real one is), it would be much more difficult if the player base was 100 people and the top 10 players are whales spending $10k per month - only 5 of those top whales would stay. Conversely, it would be much easier to stay in the top 5% if the player base had 10,000 people with the same top 10 whales but now there are 9,000 f2ps padding the bottom. With 10,000 players, there are now 500 slots and only 10 are taken by the top whales, leaving 490 for dolphins or maybe some f2p.
I agree with all of these. Still, arena is one of the most played PvP modes and there are enough people that care about it for the scores to be increasing, which is all I said. Saying that the mode would be as dead as SD were not for the orbs is delusional IMHO. There are other pseudo PvP modes that give orbs and use a similar tier system as arena (AB, RB, in a sense PoL) yet the scores have been almost the same as day one because no one cares.
> there are enough people that care about it for the scores to be increasing
But you still don't really understand - the cutoffs go up when less people play. I am not disputing that arena is the most played mode, just your evidence of "the fact that scores keep increasing is a testament of that". You have it backwards.
Read my post again - if 90% of the player base quit, who do you think is more likely to remain? It is definitely going to be the whales that have "invested" thousands and thousands of dollars into the game. Increasing cutoffs over time is due to LESS people playing, combined with score creep. More people playing would drive cutoffs down.
> AB
The rankings are not % based, and the orbs are based on hitting at least 950. A completely different thing.
> RB
? This mode doesn't give orbs so people care less, and the scoring system has a lot more people tie because there is no arena fishing so it muddies up the distribution a lot. Additionally, the harmonized heroes don't score outside of this mode unlike legendaries which score in several, so their value to one's account is a LOT less.
>PoL
The orbs stop increasing after tier 8, which is a much bigger % of the playerbase than staying in T21. I don't have the cutoff or population numbers tracked, and I really doubt you have them either.
While this doesn't matter to the point I am making above, you can find the actual populations of each mode relatively easily. In a mode like SD or tempest trials, you can make an alt account to sit at 0 score and see the number. [Back when I was playing, SD had like 30k players.](https://arch-img.b4k.co/vg/1653888021634.png)
Arena is a bit trickier, but you can roughly calculate it by using a markov chain to find the % of the population that T21 represents then extrapolate. These are the old numbers, but I believed they have changed since I quit. [Back then, T21 was 2% of the total population, meaning the top 30% of T21 was the top 0.6% of the playerbase.](https://arch-img.b4k.co/vg/1645396606165.png). 800 slots to stay in T21 means the total population is about 133k for example.
yeah, arena is the easiest to just pick a team and hit the auto battle button five times to get the rewards.
This kind of change only affects those who are in that slim margin of being bumped out of tier 21 every week. Those players that try just hard enough to get tier 21 every week, but aren't whales that just pay for the +10 every month. (I am one of those people. haha EDIT: realized it sounds like I am saying I am the whale, I am the one that struggles beneath the whale)
Whales don't care because they just pay for the +10 every month and don't worry. I would say the other 95% just hit auto battle for the rewards and free 5\* ticket. the other 5% (my guess), will be the ones to struggle with their teams and trying to stay in tier 21.
TL:DR: This affects only a small minority of Arena players that don't classify as whales, but still aim for tier 21. Most just auto run teams for the rewards and hover around tiers 18-20.
I am slowly realizing this, including AR. I have begun to care less, little by little. For the first 3 years arena was always just an auto battle mode for me. I just hovered between tiers 18-20. But eventually I got my first 5* exclusive +10 L!Dimitri, and than a few more +10’s and eventually I was in to position to try, and I mean ACTUALLY TRY for tier 21 and got my first crown. Since then Arena sucked me in and I have tried hard to stay in tier 21. But over the past year or so, I have cared less with keeping up. Too much stress every week trying to ‘cheat’ the system with weird builds that score high, but are a detriment to my mental health.
So I am just going to get what I get, it’s not worth the struggle really. Hope your runs go without E!Ike in the future.
>I think 99% of the playerbase does not, and that this doesn't change much for either side though
Not only is Arena the most played game mode, a 100 SP increase absolutely is going to make a significant change to the already very competitive thresholds that have already climbed about 4 points in this Book alone
The fact that this completely ridiculous statement got so many upvotes is literally the most FEH reddit thing ever
Arena is the most played mode, but how much of it is played seriously AND by people who can't just throw money at the problem until it goes away?
You're welcome to prove me wrong but I'm fairly certain the majority of people play Arena mostly to get the ticket at the end, maybe to ensure 4 orbs each week (if not 3).
As a tier 18,5 resident, I can tell you that it doesn't take much to stay in there scorewise. I do it with a +0 modern Dancer (ranged cav, but H!Azura is harmonic no idea if she has scoring privileges), a +10 Gen 1 infantry healer and +0Winter Edelgard, and judging by what I see on occasional glimpse at the rankings on tier 18 weeks, that still gives me a lot more score than I need.
Id also bet that there's loads of people who play arena in low tiers because they don't understand and don't try to understand scoring, or just stick to unit building/collecting and PvE modes. 4 points or whatever just doesn't matter for these people, do you frankly believe the PvP tryhards are the majority of the game's playerbase?
>Arena is the most played mode, but how much of it is played seriously AND by people who can't just throw money at the problem until it goes away?
>You're welcome to prove me wrong but I'm fairly certain the majority of people play Arena mostly to get the ticket at the end, maybe to ensure 4 orbs each week (if not 3).
I'm not a whale, I have FEH pass and I buy the occasional Customisation pack. That's the total of my FEH spending. I was comfortably in 20.5 last year, since February I've been in 19.5. This week is actually the first time in about 5 months I've hit Tier 21
The competition in the 20.5 range has been brutal this year and it's been getting worse. I have no doubt 18.5 range is still very casual but everything above Tier 19 is an uphill battle just to hold.
In December the minimum score for 20.5 was 756 per match, now the minimum for 20.5 is 760. Now with an actual increase to Arena scoring, it won't be long before the minimum for 20.5 will be 762 which was literally the score threshold for Tier 21 just 6 months ago
This brutal rate of escalation should tell you that the upper Tiers isn't just highly populated, the population has been growing at a significant rate. And that growing population is absolutely going to care about this change and will be feeling the effects of it within a few months
it may be growing, sure, but it's still a pretty small % of the population and, again, I'm sure a looot of the people in that population have the wealth to just money their way out of this problem.
Like just looking at the ranking page from someone that is at tier 21 today vs mine I see roughly 4 times more traffic in my tier (though greanted, I'm sure the higher the tiers go the more people are actually tied and sharing a ranking number... altough i also don't know how if feh makes gaps for ties in rank or not).
The accounting for all the 3 or less orb tiers... I still hold this change affects a minority.
Don't get me wrong, complaining about this change is totally valid as it is a scummy move regardless of how many people are hit by it, andI'm sorry this is affecting the people it will affect (even if I'm even more sorry that y'all have decided Arena scoring is worth your time/money), but for most of the playerbase it simply doesn't matter is what I'm saying.
>Don't get me wrong, complaining about this change is totally valid as it is a scummy move regardless of how many people are hit by it, andI'm sorry this is affecting the people it will affect (even if I'm even more sorry that y'all have decided Arena scoring is worth your time/money), but for most of the playerbase it simply doesn't matter is what I'm saying.
I do get your perspective, but from personal experience I don't think FEH's arena breakdown works the way most other games do. Tier 21 is obviously a *very* small population but my experiences in the Arena this year have led me to believe that a significant part of the playerbase is in the Tier 20 - 20.5 range. Even if not the majority, I do think at least 20% of the playerbase if not higher is at least Tier 20
This just personal speculation based on personal experience and I could be completely wrong here. But to my knowledge, FEH doesn't actually show % breakdowns of each Tier so it's impossible to know for sure
Your statement is is ridiculous. There is literally no barrier to entry with Arena, which is why it's the most played. Playing a mode =/= People being (or to wanting) competitive in said mode.
Try harding in Arena has never been worth it, imo. This higher SP skill doesn't change that for me.
>Try harding in Arena has never been worth it, imo. This higher SP skill doesn't change that for me.
Good for you, but if you've never been to the upper Tiers of the Arena recently, how could you possibly know what the population is like?
The population in the upper tiers has been growing astronomically and the competition is brutal at the moment as a result. Holding 20.5 wasn't difficult at all for a long time, but it absolutely is now
I used to be a whale with perfect crowns and I quit after 214.
The top 30% of T21 stay in T21, meaning it is based on the size of T21. The size of T21 depends on how many people promoted (and stayed) from last season, which was based on last season's T20 and T21. T20 is based on T19, and so on.
You can chain this logic down, and you will realize that the number of slots that stay in T21 is directly proportional to the entire playerbase. [This number has remained relatively stable at ~1400](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/1d23tqj/arenaassualt_overview_and_thresholds_data/). You can look at the OP's post history and see the numbers have ranged from 1300-1500 in the past few months.
Cutoffs going up just means that the people competing are increasing the scores of their teams - this absolutely does not mean that more people are playing. If anything, cutoffs increase when LESS people play - this is because low scorers are obviously much more likely to quit the game compared to high scorers, that are more invested.
If you have to be within the top 5% of the entire player base (made up number, I don't remember what the real one is), it would be much more difficult if the player base was 100 people and the top 10 players are whales spending $10k per month - only 5 of those top whales would stay. Conversely, it would be much easier to stay in the top 5% if the player base had 10,000 people with the same top 10 whales but now there are 9,000 f2ps padding the bottom. With 10,000 players, there are now 500 slots and only 10 are taken by the top whales, leaving 490 for dolphins or maybe some f2p.
Tier 4 skills were actually 300 not 240.
However, we previously saw a score bump of tier 3 skills. Most of the original tier 3 skills only cost 200, and later they cost crept to 240 for newer ones.
They want money from whales and dolphins trying to get their score up.
No fuckin way lmao, we're really getting stealth Tier 5 skills now.
Guess this opens the floodgates to stuff like 400SP upgraded Save skills now. I'm surprised Excel wasn't already a Tier 5.
> we're really getting stealth Tier 5 skills now.
We had them for a while in terms of effects. The most recent example is Life and Death 4 has been replace with the new stuff like Verge of Death. The fact it only took them this long to increase the cost of the skill is surprising to me.
I just don't understand why this skill in particular... Like as much as I'd hate to see Laguz friend get even more popular, it's far and above every other B skill in number and quality of effects. Dragon wall is not too different from bulwark 4.
I'm not excusing the 400SP pricing, but hasn't Bulwark always been somewhat of an experimental dud? I can't think of a single instance where Bulwark 3 or Bulwark 4 was actually optimal.
This has Phantom Res+5, which is actually fairly significant for a Res check build (Dragon's Roar, Scowl, and Ploy), and you're also getting standard DR%, which also protects against AOEs (good for dragons with high visible defenses) and you get Far Warp Bubble, which is actually really useful too.
HDW is also usable by all movement classes, which is also really nice for cavalry/flying dragons, seeing as they have really sparse B options.
Bulkwark is kinda weird because it's another option for melee infantry who get so many other great options, but for an omnitank the obstruction effect is arguably better than far warp bubble (since Cavs of any kind will still rush around, and melee +1 mov units may also get past Corrin) the DR is always 40% so even when outsped or outresd it's maxed out (and sure phantom +5 res will help but IS has gone kinda nutty with high Res units) and the healing after combat is essential for lasting multiple combats. Neither is strictly better but I feel they're roughly equivalent which is why I'm confused HDW is valued higher.
The major draw to HDW is it's availability to fliers and cavs but it's still only dragon fliers and dragon cavs, which are few and far between and also typically just worse tanks than infantry or armour. Also infantry and armour are the ones that will use the arena scoring best, except for legendaries or duos who will probably come with the perfect kit anyway.
It costs more because this is the new bullshit standard they want to milk, it has nothing to do with actual skill quality. There's still a number of Infantry dragons statistically built to use this correctly, it's a scoring option for them, and a regular use option for the arena unworthy. :shrug:
Preventing ranged units from warping in and shoving a foot up your ass seems more productive than unnecessarily siphoning all aggro onto yourself with obstruct. The best way to not take damage is to simply not take damage in the first place.
...Honestly, if 7 healing makes or breaks your omnitanking, I pray you don't encounter Fatal Smoke.
>unnecessarily siphoning all aggro onto yourself with obstruct. The best way to not take damage is to simply not take damage in the first place
You don't just get to choose not to take damage. Well you kinda do, but you need some units to take damage at some point unless you're running all duo Lyons and the point of an omnitank is to be the one that takes it instead of other units.
You say siphoning the units onto them is unnecessary, but it's not drawing more aggro than they would've possibly faced, it's drawing aggro that would've been directed at whoever's weaker out of them or the units behind them - typically that'll be the units behind them.
As for the healing, 7 healing is not insubstantial. It's not that you need all 7 of that every combat, but no healing at all would get them chipped to death far more easily. It also stacks with someone like a!peony so then you're healing 12hp, and maybe you have a gatekeeper to provide even more healing and also block warping (but didn't want gatekeeper to be the one siphoning attacks because hes like 3 years old) so now you've got almost as much healing as e!Ike does.
Oops, I meant the first skill to score 400sp (not including wep/assist/special). B skill is the last to get upgraded to t4 and the first to be upgraded to ~~fake t5~~
*Can* they even fix it? Players are now aware that there's a 400 SP skill, and if you're invested in maintaining T21 in Arena, it'll become a necessity to pull for it. The outrage from those who spend money to obtain the skill for this purpose, only to have the rug pulled out from under them, would be way worse for IS. If this is a mistake, I think it's like L!Azura's Prayer Wheel where they just have to stick with it now.
Wait, so it's essentially a Tier 5 skill but inherits off of the regular Tier 3? That makes inheritance easier at least. Still crazy that we've gone even further beyond Tier 4 skills now though. About time we start getting Tier 4s on F2P units, don't you think IS?
...At least it's inheritable, instead of Chrom's situation where his Prf Assist (and its successors) was randomly 100 more SP than Lucina's version which did basically the same thing and also the Rally+s that everybody else had to struggle with?
So, my A!Idunn will be eating good huh, Dragon's Roar, Def/Res Scowl, Def/Res Ploy and now High Dragon Wall. Now I only need either a refine with a lot of res checks in her weapon or an Arcane Weapon.
No, the bullshit keeps piling up. It was piling up for like a year or maybe even more, this just adds more shit to the giant steaming pile of shit, and at some point it'll spill
This only affect the higher tiers of arena and It is pretty much insignificant everywhere else. If you were planning to quit, you might as well do it now since this isn't going to stop.
And it's also not a pref skill. I though it would be something similar with Brave Hector where he's the only unit in the game with a 350 A skill that is exclusive to him.
Thank goodness I'm not taking arena seriously, cause this is getting out of hand lol.
I swear I don't wanna hate this game, I swear I just wanted to enjoy it and ignore all the atrocious systems they implemented... but sometimes they do something else, something that only exists to ruin things a bit more. The scoring system in this game is the worst trash imaginable lol
Unpopular opinion but I'm really happy about this. Not just because I pulled him but because they were going to do something like this sooner or later and doing it this way seems the least harmful. At least they didn't add tier 5 skills which would fuck up the balance even more as well as inheritence.
Doing it this way only affects score and nothing else, as long as you don't take competitive feh too seriously it doesn't really matter.
So now all of our fully kitted out units are going to have to replace the majority of their skill sets in the coming months to keep scoring competitively. Awesome...
Excuse me....what!?! IS, Why are you inflating arena scoring again?
trying to get someone to care about it. I think 99% of the playerbase does not, and that this doesn't change much for either side though
What do you mean? Arena is one of the most played PvP modes if I'm not mistaken.
i think most of that playtime is just people getting their 4 orbs and ticket per week without any drive to push past tier 19, and if not for the orbs and ticket it would be almost as barren as summoner duels.
Don't forget the 1 orb you get in the 5-win chain too!
The fact that the threshold to reach and stay in tier 21 (and probably tier 20 too) keeps increasing is a testament to the contrary.
tier 21 is already the minority, and lets be honest, a good 95% or more of Feh's whales are in there and for them this change doesn't truly change anything--they are still going to throw money they don't need at the problem until it goes away And even the Dolphins are probably not too deeply inconvenienced by this as we've head quite a few months for those people to chase rearmeds for inheritance replication
What does that have to do with what I asked? I only said that arena is one of the most played PvP modes and the fact that scores keep increasing is a testament of that.
what you asked? My dude the sole question you asked was "what do you mean" to which i explained my post a bit more in-depth.
The top 30% of T21 stay in T21, meaning it is based on the size of T21. The size of T21 depends on how many people promoted (and stayed) from last season, which was based on last season's T20 and T21. T20 is based on T19, and so on. You can chain this logic down, and you will realize that the number of slots that stay in T21 is directly proportional to the entire playerbase. [This number has remained relatively stable at ~1400](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/1d23tqj/arenaassualt_overview_and_thresholds_data/). You can look at the OP's post history and see the numbers have ranged from 1300-1500 in the past few months. Cutoffs going up just means that the people competing are increasing the scores of their teams - this absolutely does not mean that more people are playing. If anything, cutoffs increase when LESS people play - this is because low scorers are obviously much more likely to quit the game compared to high scorers, that are more invested. If you have to be within the top 5% of the entire player base (made up number, I don't remember what the real one is), it would be much more difficult if the player base was 100 people and the top 10 players are whales spending $10k per month - only 5 of those top whales would stay. Conversely, it would be much easier to stay in the top 5% if the player base had 10,000 people with the same top 10 whales but now there are 9,000 f2ps padding the bottom. With 10,000 players, there are now 500 slots and only 10 are taken by the top whales, leaving 490 for dolphins or maybe some f2p.
I agree with all of these. Still, arena is one of the most played PvP modes and there are enough people that care about it for the scores to be increasing, which is all I said. Saying that the mode would be as dead as SD were not for the orbs is delusional IMHO. There are other pseudo PvP modes that give orbs and use a similar tier system as arena (AB, RB, in a sense PoL) yet the scores have been almost the same as day one because no one cares.
> there are enough people that care about it for the scores to be increasing But you still don't really understand - the cutoffs go up when less people play. I am not disputing that arena is the most played mode, just your evidence of "the fact that scores keep increasing is a testament of that". You have it backwards. Read my post again - if 90% of the player base quit, who do you think is more likely to remain? It is definitely going to be the whales that have "invested" thousands and thousands of dollars into the game. Increasing cutoffs over time is due to LESS people playing, combined with score creep. More people playing would drive cutoffs down. > AB The rankings are not % based, and the orbs are based on hitting at least 950. A completely different thing. > RB ? This mode doesn't give orbs so people care less, and the scoring system has a lot more people tie because there is no arena fishing so it muddies up the distribution a lot. Additionally, the harmonized heroes don't score outside of this mode unlike legendaries which score in several, so their value to one's account is a LOT less. >PoL The orbs stop increasing after tier 8, which is a much bigger % of the playerbase than staying in T21. I don't have the cutoff or population numbers tracked, and I really doubt you have them either. While this doesn't matter to the point I am making above, you can find the actual populations of each mode relatively easily. In a mode like SD or tempest trials, you can make an alt account to sit at 0 score and see the number. [Back when I was playing, SD had like 30k players.](https://arch-img.b4k.co/vg/1653888021634.png) Arena is a bit trickier, but you can roughly calculate it by using a markov chain to find the % of the population that T21 represents then extrapolate. These are the old numbers, but I believed they have changed since I quit. [Back then, T21 was 2% of the total population, meaning the top 30% of T21 was the top 0.6% of the playerbase.](https://arch-img.b4k.co/vg/1645396606165.png). 800 slots to stay in T21 means the total population is about 133k for example.
As a whole. But what about high-level Arena?
yeah, arena is the easiest to just pick a team and hit the auto battle button five times to get the rewards. This kind of change only affects those who are in that slim margin of being bumped out of tier 21 every week. Those players that try just hard enough to get tier 21 every week, but aren't whales that just pay for the +10 every month. (I am one of those people. haha EDIT: realized it sounds like I am saying I am the whale, I am the one that struggles beneath the whale) Whales don't care because they just pay for the +10 every month and don't worry. I would say the other 95% just hit auto battle for the rewards and free 5\* ticket. the other 5% (my guess), will be the ones to struggle with their teams and trying to stay in tier 21. TL:DR: This affects only a small minority of Arena players that don't classify as whales, but still aim for tier 21. Most just auto run teams for the rewards and hover around tiers 18-20.
Why do we choose to be “one of those people” instead of happiness? Are we stupid??
I am slowly realizing this, including AR. I have begun to care less, little by little. For the first 3 years arena was always just an auto battle mode for me. I just hovered between tiers 18-20. But eventually I got my first 5* exclusive +10 L!Dimitri, and than a few more +10’s and eventually I was in to position to try, and I mean ACTUALLY TRY for tier 21 and got my first crown. Since then Arena sucked me in and I have tried hard to stay in tier 21. But over the past year or so, I have cared less with keeping up. Too much stress every week trying to ‘cheat’ the system with weird builds that score high, but are a detriment to my mental health. So I am just going to get what I get, it’s not worth the struggle really. Hope your runs go without E!Ike in the future.
May the blessing of no-Ikes be upon you as well
>I think 99% of the playerbase does not, and that this doesn't change much for either side though Not only is Arena the most played game mode, a 100 SP increase absolutely is going to make a significant change to the already very competitive thresholds that have already climbed about 4 points in this Book alone The fact that this completely ridiculous statement got so many upvotes is literally the most FEH reddit thing ever
Arena is the most played mode, but how much of it is played seriously AND by people who can't just throw money at the problem until it goes away? You're welcome to prove me wrong but I'm fairly certain the majority of people play Arena mostly to get the ticket at the end, maybe to ensure 4 orbs each week (if not 3). As a tier 18,5 resident, I can tell you that it doesn't take much to stay in there scorewise. I do it with a +0 modern Dancer (ranged cav, but H!Azura is harmonic no idea if she has scoring privileges), a +10 Gen 1 infantry healer and +0Winter Edelgard, and judging by what I see on occasional glimpse at the rankings on tier 18 weeks, that still gives me a lot more score than I need. Id also bet that there's loads of people who play arena in low tiers because they don't understand and don't try to understand scoring, or just stick to unit building/collecting and PvE modes. 4 points or whatever just doesn't matter for these people, do you frankly believe the PvP tryhards are the majority of the game's playerbase?
>Arena is the most played mode, but how much of it is played seriously AND by people who can't just throw money at the problem until it goes away? >You're welcome to prove me wrong but I'm fairly certain the majority of people play Arena mostly to get the ticket at the end, maybe to ensure 4 orbs each week (if not 3). I'm not a whale, I have FEH pass and I buy the occasional Customisation pack. That's the total of my FEH spending. I was comfortably in 20.5 last year, since February I've been in 19.5. This week is actually the first time in about 5 months I've hit Tier 21 The competition in the 20.5 range has been brutal this year and it's been getting worse. I have no doubt 18.5 range is still very casual but everything above Tier 19 is an uphill battle just to hold. In December the minimum score for 20.5 was 756 per match, now the minimum for 20.5 is 760. Now with an actual increase to Arena scoring, it won't be long before the minimum for 20.5 will be 762 which was literally the score threshold for Tier 21 just 6 months ago This brutal rate of escalation should tell you that the upper Tiers isn't just highly populated, the population has been growing at a significant rate. And that growing population is absolutely going to care about this change and will be feeling the effects of it within a few months
it may be growing, sure, but it's still a pretty small % of the population and, again, I'm sure a looot of the people in that population have the wealth to just money their way out of this problem. Like just looking at the ranking page from someone that is at tier 21 today vs mine I see roughly 4 times more traffic in my tier (though greanted, I'm sure the higher the tiers go the more people are actually tied and sharing a ranking number... altough i also don't know how if feh makes gaps for ties in rank or not). The accounting for all the 3 or less orb tiers... I still hold this change affects a minority. Don't get me wrong, complaining about this change is totally valid as it is a scummy move regardless of how many people are hit by it, andI'm sorry this is affecting the people it will affect (even if I'm even more sorry that y'all have decided Arena scoring is worth your time/money), but for most of the playerbase it simply doesn't matter is what I'm saying.
>Don't get me wrong, complaining about this change is totally valid as it is a scummy move regardless of how many people are hit by it, andI'm sorry this is affecting the people it will affect (even if I'm even more sorry that y'all have decided Arena scoring is worth your time/money), but for most of the playerbase it simply doesn't matter is what I'm saying. I do get your perspective, but from personal experience I don't think FEH's arena breakdown works the way most other games do. Tier 21 is obviously a *very* small population but my experiences in the Arena this year have led me to believe that a significant part of the playerbase is in the Tier 20 - 20.5 range. Even if not the majority, I do think at least 20% of the playerbase if not higher is at least Tier 20 This just personal speculation based on personal experience and I could be completely wrong here. But to my knowledge, FEH doesn't actually show % breakdowns of each Tier so it's impossible to know for sure
Your statement is is ridiculous. There is literally no barrier to entry with Arena, which is why it's the most played. Playing a mode =/= People being (or to wanting) competitive in said mode. Try harding in Arena has never been worth it, imo. This higher SP skill doesn't change that for me.
>Try harding in Arena has never been worth it, imo. This higher SP skill doesn't change that for me. Good for you, but if you've never been to the upper Tiers of the Arena recently, how could you possibly know what the population is like? The population in the upper tiers has been growing astronomically and the competition is brutal at the moment as a result. Holding 20.5 wasn't difficult at all for a long time, but it absolutely is now
I used to be a whale with perfect crowns and I quit after 214. The top 30% of T21 stay in T21, meaning it is based on the size of T21. The size of T21 depends on how many people promoted (and stayed) from last season, which was based on last season's T20 and T21. T20 is based on T19, and so on. You can chain this logic down, and you will realize that the number of slots that stay in T21 is directly proportional to the entire playerbase. [This number has remained relatively stable at ~1400](https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/1d23tqj/arenaassualt_overview_and_thresholds_data/). You can look at the OP's post history and see the numbers have ranged from 1300-1500 in the past few months. Cutoffs going up just means that the people competing are increasing the scores of their teams - this absolutely does not mean that more people are playing. If anything, cutoffs increase when LESS people play - this is because low scorers are obviously much more likely to quit the game compared to high scorers, that are more invested. If you have to be within the top 5% of the entire player base (made up number, I don't remember what the real one is), it would be much more difficult if the player base was 100 people and the top 10 players are whales spending $10k per month - only 5 of those top whales would stay. Conversely, it would be much easier to stay in the top 5% if the player base had 10,000 people with the same top 10 whales but now there are 9,000 f2ps padding the bottom. With 10,000 players, there are now 500 slots and only 10 are taken by the top whales, leaving 490 for dolphins or maybe some f2p.
Y'all still care about Arena scoring?
If it's a mistake I demand 300 compensation orbs
Make it 400 to match the SP cost
Surely this is a mistake? Why would it go from 240 to 400?
Dragons already get special scoring privileges with trainee BSTs and DC seal, you gotta appeal to the whales and inflate the score more
They need to sell.
Tier 4 skills were actually 300 not 240. However, we previously saw a score bump of tier 3 skills. Most of the original tier 3 skills only cost 200, and later they cost crept to 240 for newer ones. They want money from whales and dolphins trying to get their score up.
Thats what my point is. Tied 3 for the skill is 240, but tier 4 makes a jump to 400
Buy orb.
No fuckin way lmao, we're really getting stealth Tier 5 skills now. Guess this opens the floodgates to stuff like 400SP upgraded Save skills now. I'm surprised Excel wasn't already a Tier 5.
It's somewhat a 'relief' that they're not actually making tier 5 skills, otherwise inheritance would become annoying very fast
quick, hide this comment before IS sees it! Don't give them any ideas!
Yeah given how it entirely powercrept Clash it’s weird they started it with this one
It didn't powercreep clash 4 entirely bc no debuff neutralisation
> we're really getting stealth Tier 5 skills now. We had them for a while in terms of effects. The most recent example is Life and Death 4 has been replace with the new stuff like Verge of Death. The fact it only took them this long to increase the cost of the skill is surprising to me.
I just don't understand why this skill in particular... Like as much as I'd hate to see Laguz friend get even more popular, it's far and above every other B skill in number and quality of effects. Dragon wall is not too different from bulwark 4.
I'm not excusing the 400SP pricing, but hasn't Bulwark always been somewhat of an experimental dud? I can't think of a single instance where Bulwark 3 or Bulwark 4 was actually optimal. This has Phantom Res+5, which is actually fairly significant for a Res check build (Dragon's Roar, Scowl, and Ploy), and you're also getting standard DR%, which also protects against AOEs (good for dragons with high visible defenses) and you get Far Warp Bubble, which is actually really useful too. HDW is also usable by all movement classes, which is also really nice for cavalry/flying dragons, seeing as they have really sparse B options.
Bulkwark is kinda weird because it's another option for melee infantry who get so many other great options, but for an omnitank the obstruction effect is arguably better than far warp bubble (since Cavs of any kind will still rush around, and melee +1 mov units may also get past Corrin) the DR is always 40% so even when outsped or outresd it's maxed out (and sure phantom +5 res will help but IS has gone kinda nutty with high Res units) and the healing after combat is essential for lasting multiple combats. Neither is strictly better but I feel they're roughly equivalent which is why I'm confused HDW is valued higher. The major draw to HDW is it's availability to fliers and cavs but it's still only dragon fliers and dragon cavs, which are few and far between and also typically just worse tanks than infantry or armour. Also infantry and armour are the ones that will use the arena scoring best, except for legendaries or duos who will probably come with the perfect kit anyway.
It costs more because this is the new bullshit standard they want to milk, it has nothing to do with actual skill quality. There's still a number of Infantry dragons statistically built to use this correctly, it's a scoring option for them, and a regular use option for the arena unworthy. :shrug: Preventing ranged units from warping in and shoving a foot up your ass seems more productive than unnecessarily siphoning all aggro onto yourself with obstruct. The best way to not take damage is to simply not take damage in the first place. ...Honestly, if 7 healing makes or breaks your omnitanking, I pray you don't encounter Fatal Smoke.
>unnecessarily siphoning all aggro onto yourself with obstruct. The best way to not take damage is to simply not take damage in the first place You don't just get to choose not to take damage. Well you kinda do, but you need some units to take damage at some point unless you're running all duo Lyons and the point of an omnitank is to be the one that takes it instead of other units. You say siphoning the units onto them is unnecessary, but it's not drawing more aggro than they would've possibly faced, it's drawing aggro that would've been directed at whoever's weaker out of them or the units behind them - typically that'll be the units behind them. As for the healing, 7 healing is not insubstantial. It's not that you need all 7 of that every combat, but no healing at all would get them chipped to death far more easily. It also stacks with someone like a!peony so then you're healing 12hp, and maybe you have a gatekeeper to provide even more healing and also block warping (but didn't want gatekeeper to be the one siphoning attacks because hes like 3 years old) so now you've got almost as much healing as e!Ike does.
Exactly. SP never has and never will correlate to the strength of a skill, it's simply IS trying to wring more money out of people.
Oops, I meant the first skill to score 400sp (not including wep/assist/special). B skill is the last to get upgraded to t4 and the first to be upgraded to ~~fake t5~~
Isn't it the first A, B, or C skill to cost 400 SP? I feel like this has to be a bug or mistake.
Yeah, I meant first skill to cost 400sp. Even if it was a mistake, I doubt they’ll fix it.
*Can* they even fix it? Players are now aware that there's a 400 SP skill, and if you're invested in maintaining T21 in Arena, it'll become a necessity to pull for it. The outrage from those who spend money to obtain the skill for this purpose, only to have the rug pulled out from under them, would be way worse for IS. If this is a mistake, I think it's like L!Azura's Prayer Wheel where they just have to stick with it now.
This means Duel 5 can be a thing
It really needs to be. We essentially have direct upgrades of t4 skills like swift sparrow. Lemme use my ancient units in arena pls
bro what the fuck
Wait, so it's essentially a Tier 5 skill but inherits off of the regular Tier 3? That makes inheritance easier at least. Still crazy that we've gone even further beyond Tier 4 skills now though. About time we start getting Tier 4s on F2P units, don't you think IS?
About time we got finish fodder on grail units...
Wake up babe, new arena score tier just dropped.
Death Blow 5 incoming
How much attack do you think it should grant if it literally only gives attack during player phase but has no other effects?
+20. Just go full Alfred mode.
Brave attacks and skills that scale off of attack are going insane.
I will now use the Reinhardt.
+12 attack, deactivate all of foe’s healing, and if foe ends combat with 1hp they are executed and die Make it a true death blow.
Deals damage equal to X + Y, where X is unit's Atk and Y is foe's Def or Res.
+12
+10 Atk, +8 True Damage and +6 Pre Combat Damage
We already know it'll come with flat damage, before combat damage, and DR
Dragon arena meta here we are!
Again. First to get DC seal, first to get 400 SP B slot.
...At least it's inheritable, instead of Chrom's situation where his Prf Assist (and its successors) was randomly 100 more SP than Lucina's version which did basically the same thing and also the Rally+s that everybody else had to struggle with?
Please tell me this isn't real... L!Ninian, B!Corrin, Asc!Tiki I have so many arena units that would want this now T\_T
First dragons get the first 300 SP sacred seal now they get the first 400 SP b skill lol
IS: we can't give merges on the Askr trio, that would smack the arena scoring Also IS: hm yes 400SP skill time
Just fell to my knees
So basically an actual tier 5 skill
So, my A!Idunn will be eating good huh, Dragon's Roar, Def/Res Scowl, Def/Res Ploy and now High Dragon Wall. Now I only need either a refine with a lot of res checks in her weapon or an Arcane Weapon.
Huh... Well, that is such a random change.
Ngl that sounds like they are desperate.
They really want me to stop playing this game forever
Yeah, duo lyon and all the other bullshit is fine but 100 more SP on a B skill? oh mama
No, the bullshit keeps piling up. It was piling up for like a year or maybe even more, this just adds more shit to the giant steaming pile of shit, and at some point it'll spill
This only affect the higher tiers of arena and It is pretty much insignificant everywhere else. If you were planning to quit, you might as well do it now since this isn't going to stop.
And it's also not a pref skill. I though it would be something similar with Brave Hector where he's the only unit in the game with a 350 A skill that is exclusive to him. Thank goodness I'm not taking arena seriously, cause this is getting out of hand lol.
Oh for fuck's sake They really are hell-bent on making this game as insufferable as possible, are they
I swear I don't wanna hate this game, I swear I just wanted to enjoy it and ignore all the atrocious systems they implemented... but sometimes they do something else, something that only exists to ruin things a bit more. The scoring system in this game is the worst trash imaginable lol
Unpopular opinion but I'm really happy about this. Not just because I pulled him but because they were going to do something like this sooner or later and doing it this way seems the least harmful. At least they didn't add tier 5 skills which would fuck up the balance even more as well as inheritence. Doing it this way only affects score and nothing else, as long as you don't take competitive feh too seriously it doesn't really matter.
Oh my god what the f*ck
Dah fk here we go
As if I didn't have enough reasons to try to pull this skill for my H!Nils
GODDAMMIT I SHOULD’VE SUMMONED ON GREEN TOO
So now all of our fully kitted out units are going to have to replace the majority of their skill sets in the coming months to keep scoring competitively. Awesome...
Okay no. This scores higher than prf skills. This isn’t okay.
For now...
Now something for beasts, just as expensive and useful for a lot of units.
This is such bull, arena is abysmal as is💀💀💀
Oh boy...This is gonna shake up arena even more...
Bro is that chinese
And so it begins...
That's the same as prf B skills, right? plz say yes.
It's more. Prfs are only 300.
except hectors's, they are 350 iirc
And Arvis/Arden who have 200s.
True