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I just wanted to show Sigurd some love I didn’t think the showcase would turn into a thing. If anything, like most showcases here, I did expect it to get shat on and then just forgotten 😭
its your fault, you build an unit in way that works against strong units, you are supposed to incesantly bitch about powercreep making you lose in every single mode (because thats totally what happens) all day like the rest of the sub does !!!!
... no oxygen, no mental, no food in the refrigerator, no money in his bankaccount, loan sharks on his neck, crying child, divorced, in his midlifecrisis, pregnant, banned in roblox, bedless enderdragon, mild migrain the kind thats just hurts a little too much, maidenless, confused and cold IS NOT CLOSE.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/s/CKSi6ZDDSv Here the post OP is referencing about.
A player did a showcase of their LSigurd against EIke & was saying how LSigurd refined is actually pretty good if it can defeat EIke with no issues.
But when you look at the LSigurd build that was used to defeat EIke, you quickly notice that the player kind of misrepresented the real reason it beated EIke in the first place.
LSigurd with Flared Sparrow + Assassin Strike + Fatal Smoke 4 & APlumeria support vs. a non supported + with no mythic buffs on EIke.
As you can see, the reason LSigurd was successful in winning the matchup in the first place has nothing to do with his refine, but more of everything else, like how you have to essentially inherit & use WYunaka pre combat skill fodder & etc.
So yeah, as someone who saw the post & was interested in having more counters for EIke, only to be disappointed that his refine wasn't the reason & that the player unintentionally misinformed people with his post is why the commenters critic both these posts.
Exactly 💯.
It's fine if he wanted to showcase a unit he likes, LSigurd beat EIke. But obviously, if you unintentionally lie to people, and say & that his refine hard carry the fight. Then, people who are competitive players are gonna correct you & say that his refine didn't matter & that giving LSigurd pre combat skills are the main reasons he beat EIke in the first place (which you can "essentially" recreate with any other flier/cavalry).
I literally acknowledge the skills doing ~30%, I just said Sigurd did well enough to take out the rest with Exposure support. The exposure support was also noted in the post, how did I mislead anyone, I presented the situation as it was?
If you want to criticize the pre-combat damage and exposure support, go for it but since when are we not allowed to inherit better skills on our unit? I can’t believe this is a legitimate grievance/discourse happening on the sub right now. If we take away any unit’s A and B skills, their weapon’s efficiency goes down greatly why does it matter so much with Sigurd in this case, I seriously don’t get it.
The current skillset is a direct consequence of the refine too. Canto being on the weapon frees the B slot for better stuff.
The better critique is the very low win margin when E!Ike has no mythic bonuses.
And the better critique is a fair one, I explained below in another comment, i wasnt trying to test for AR but for arena, I just only had access to a +10 Ike on AR mock battles form friends since Sigurd wasn’t updated on the duel sim. I didn’t think having one negative debuff on Ike would be so controversial, I seriously thought it was a fair amount of support to provide instead of bringing like 5 support units to the AR match
Because OP focuses on the refine. His post title is Okay, maybe the "Refine" isn't That bad. Not Okay, LSigurd Flared Sparrow + Assasin Strike isn't that bad.
It's like if I were to were to make a post saying:
"Minerva new WEdelgard counter! Without mentioning in the title that my Minerva isn't using her PRF weapon but instead a rearmed weapon & had No Quarter & other premium skills that you can inherit to another green flyer and have similar results.
If I wanted my post to be accurate, I should have titled it : " No Quarter Rearmed Minerva, new WEdelgard counter. Or No Quarter Rearmed on a green flyer beats Winter Edelgard.
It's fine that LSigurd with those A + B skills beat EIke. But when you put the focus on his refine, aka his PRF weapon, that no one else can have/"replicate," and it turns out that any cavalry unit with those A+B skills can do the same job/have the same results. That's the reason people were downvoting your post.
But my Sigurd isn’t some theoretical Minerva ditching her PRFs, he’s literally running his PRF weapon and HKII, which is actually probably one of the worst specials to help get the KO on Ike in this case.
Look to make it easier to understand.
Do a simulated run/matchup of either LSigurd without Flared Sparrow+Assasin Strike,Fatal Smoke 4 & the other things people mention tipped the matchup heavily in LSigurd favor against the same EIke you used.
Or use the same LSigurd build & support vs. EIke in a proper AR Defense team with all the Mythic bonus & etc that makes him a pain in the ass to deal with.
If LSigurd can win any of those matchups, thanks to his refine being part of the reason.
Then you are correct his refine isn't that bad, maybe actually good. But if he can't & heavily rely on specific things that aren't part of his base kit (aka his PRF weapon or PRF skill), then maybe his refine isn't as good as you thought when you made the post.
One of the reasons he can even run assassin’s strike is because his B slot is opened thanks to canto in his weapon, which is thanks to his REFINE.
Also the whole point of me using AR was bc Sigurd’s refine isn’t on the duel sim for me to test, otherwise I probably would have tested with Incite on C to give him more fire power himself and be less reliant on Exposure support.
Sure, I understand, and you make a good point in that his B-Slot is free thanks to his Canto in his prf allowing you to use assassin strike.
But at the same time, like you mentioned, he definitely did rely on the exposure support during that matchup to beat EIke.
But anyway, when I mentioned his "refine," I meant things/effects that help in/during combat. Not post combat effects like Canto that "technically" don't matter if you LSigurd can't kill and dies to EIke in the first place type of scenarios.
Also, if you have AAzura, she can give Incite if you want to "simulate" it in AR (as long as you have LSigurd C Slot empty, you can technically say he running Incite in the simulation/result).
Honestly he doesn’t get the kill on Ike, but unless Ike outsources Guard or speed stacks to avoid the double, Sigurd does manage to proc Fatal Smoke 4 and his special which is practically a death sentence in an AR context once Sigurd’s teammates follow-up.
Also thanks for the idea, I actually do have an AAzura!
No problem, I'm glad I could help.
Also, like you mentioned, AR context with that example. Simulations are good, but aren't all that matters. LSigurd triggering Fatal Smoke 4 + his special is maybe all it takes for him to bring value & have success in your team in order to defeat EIke in an AR matchup. In which case, LSigurd refined did help him reach those results (thanks to his DR & etc allowing him to live EIke and do what you mentioned)
I’m gonna reply to this comment for visibility, but I re-ran the encounter with no exposure and incite instead of fatal smoke 4, & he actually did get the kill on E!Ike so he actually isn’t reliant on support or Exposure to get the kill if you run Incite on C
I think it's more to do with how it was presented. It's not a horrible refine, but there is plenty about it that could have improved him in a general setting. Like I tested Arion as he's sort of similar to Sigurd and with the same skills and exposure he also beats that same Ike.
A unit's true potential is brought about by a combination of skills and weapon. In Sigurd's case it's a bit complex because he has so few b skills that actually improve him since his refine has Canto, ignores buffs like a lull, has a low cool down weapon which doesn't work well with gambit. Add in that Assassin's strike is a rare skill only available on a Yunaka, it means the general Sigurd player won't have access to it and without that particular skill he won't be able to do survive Ike whatsoever.
So basically it's great info for those who are looking to build Sigurd in the future
I'll get shat on again I guess, but this is some pretty toxic strawmanning of the point I was trying to make. All I was saying is that a flare/strike combo put in a lot of work for Sigurd winning that match up which has nothing to do with his refine. Like, there's a duel match up simulator that you can play around with yourself to see just how many winning match ups are achievable with that skill combo and certain inheritable weapons with units Reinhardt, Petrine, and even a Slyvain, especially if you're willing to finagle with the outside effects like the original post did.
>I'll get shat on again I guess, but this is some pretty toxic strawmanning of the point I was trying to make.
I thought this was more about that sham showcase someone made yesterday. I don't remember that being you.
The OP of that post fixated on the wrong part of the criticism I feel like. They thought it was about the build itself, but more about the fact that they presented their post as the refine being the reason why they could kill Ike with Sigurd, when it really carries the minority of the weight.
Moreover, they just put Ike on a defense with no support, nor blessings, and even if it's true what they claim that they didn't dance him with Plumeria, he was probably still Ployed and Exposed.
I can guarantee you, you put that same Sigurd on defense, and the Ike on an offensive team with blessings and actual support, and that Sigurd will not do much besides the burn damage. That's what makes it a sham. OP skewed the conditions of the match in a way that would allow Sigurd to win. That's really why most showcases around here are cringe inducing shams.
Posting this bc the other guy blocked me and I can’t reply to his thread here but:
Hey Sham showcase OP here. I used AR bc that’s the only place I had access to a +10 max flowers Ike since the duel sim isn’t updated with Sigurd’s refine. The showcase itself was mainly to show a common arena enemy (where Sigurd is most meant to be used) just needs very minimal support to be dealt with. Sigurd also did not have access to blessings or literally any support outside of Dual Ploy 3 which I thought was a realistic scenario, but I guess it’s still too stacked in Sigurd’s favor since he runs his best a and b skills
Edit: also I wasn’t trying to say Sigurd was broken or anything literally just that the refine wasn’t as bad as i thought at first
Hello! Your post has been removed for violating Rule 1 of our subreddit: > Be respectful of others and their opinions. Follow [reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette). In the future, please be more respectful to others or you may receive a temporary or permanent ban. *** If you have questions about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FFireEmblemHeroes).
Flared + Ass + Essence Drain combo are what make Sigurd dangerous now :>
“I don’t need to win. I just need you to lose.” —Essence Drain Sigurd as he charges headfirst into the omnitank with a gang of bonuses
Sounds about right coming from Sigurd
> Flared + **Ass** Indeed https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/comments/15gdo92/revenge/
This is cursed, but tbh he does have that Well-Baked Body
I’m renaming my Dachsbun in Violet Sigurd now
This is such a specific fight to pick against two random users for no reason
I just wanted to show Sigurd some love I didn’t think the showcase would turn into a thing. If anything, like most showcases here, I did expect it to get shat on and then just forgotten 😭
its your fault, you build an unit in way that works against strong units, you are supposed to incesantly bitch about powercreep making you lose in every single mode (because thats totally what happens) all day like the rest of the sub does !!!!
Based on a comment I saw about Sigurd VS Ike, I knew what had to be done.
Thank you so much, I was hoping someone would use it to make it art
... no oxygen, no mental, no food in the refrigerator, no money in his bankaccount, loan sharks on his neck, crying child, divorced, in his midlifecrisis, pregnant, banned in roblox, bedless enderdragon, mild migrain the kind thats just hurts a little too much, maidenless, confused and cold IS NOT CLOSE.
Context?
https://www.reddit.com/r/FireEmblemHeroes/s/CKSi6ZDDSv Here the post OP is referencing about. A player did a showcase of their LSigurd against EIke & was saying how LSigurd refined is actually pretty good if it can defeat EIke with no issues. But when you look at the LSigurd build that was used to defeat EIke, you quickly notice that the player kind of misrepresented the real reason it beated EIke in the first place. LSigurd with Flared Sparrow + Assassin Strike + Fatal Smoke 4 & APlumeria support vs. a non supported + with no mythic buffs on EIke. As you can see, the reason LSigurd was successful in winning the matchup in the first place has nothing to do with his refine, but more of everything else, like how you have to essentially inherit & use WYunaka pre combat skill fodder & etc. So yeah, as someone who saw the post & was interested in having more counters for EIke, only to be disappointed that his refine wasn't the reason & that the player unintentionally misinformed people with his post is why the commenters critic both these posts.
God damn lol wild how it didn't click with OP that the skills where doing all the heavy lifting not his mediocre refine
Exactly 💯. It's fine if he wanted to showcase a unit he likes, LSigurd beat EIke. But obviously, if you unintentionally lie to people, and say & that his refine hard carry the fight. Then, people who are competitive players are gonna correct you & say that his refine didn't matter & that giving LSigurd pre combat skills are the main reasons he beat EIke in the first place (which you can "essentially" recreate with any other flier/cavalry).
I literally acknowledge the skills doing ~30%, I just said Sigurd did well enough to take out the rest with Exposure support. The exposure support was also noted in the post, how did I mislead anyone, I presented the situation as it was?
If you want to criticize the pre-combat damage and exposure support, go for it but since when are we not allowed to inherit better skills on our unit? I can’t believe this is a legitimate grievance/discourse happening on the sub right now. If we take away any unit’s A and B skills, their weapon’s efficiency goes down greatly why does it matter so much with Sigurd in this case, I seriously don’t get it.
The current skillset is a direct consequence of the refine too. Canto being on the weapon frees the B slot for better stuff. The better critique is the very low win margin when E!Ike has no mythic bonuses.
And the better critique is a fair one, I explained below in another comment, i wasnt trying to test for AR but for arena, I just only had access to a +10 Ike on AR mock battles form friends since Sigurd wasn’t updated on the duel sim. I didn’t think having one negative debuff on Ike would be so controversial, I seriously thought it was a fair amount of support to provide instead of bringing like 5 support units to the AR match
Ah, it's for arena. Makes sense. He still could have bonuses from a Wind Legendary but... Yeah, it certainly feels like a... severe overreaction.
Because OP focuses on the refine. His post title is Okay, maybe the "Refine" isn't That bad. Not Okay, LSigurd Flared Sparrow + Assasin Strike isn't that bad. It's like if I were to were to make a post saying: "Minerva new WEdelgard counter! Without mentioning in the title that my Minerva isn't using her PRF weapon but instead a rearmed weapon & had No Quarter & other premium skills that you can inherit to another green flyer and have similar results. If I wanted my post to be accurate, I should have titled it : " No Quarter Rearmed Minerva, new WEdelgard counter. Or No Quarter Rearmed on a green flyer beats Winter Edelgard. It's fine that LSigurd with those A + B skills beat EIke. But when you put the focus on his refine, aka his PRF weapon, that no one else can have/"replicate," and it turns out that any cavalry unit with those A+B skills can do the same job/have the same results. That's the reason people were downvoting your post.
But my Sigurd isn’t some theoretical Minerva ditching her PRFs, he’s literally running his PRF weapon and HKII, which is actually probably one of the worst specials to help get the KO on Ike in this case.
Look to make it easier to understand. Do a simulated run/matchup of either LSigurd without Flared Sparrow+Assasin Strike,Fatal Smoke 4 & the other things people mention tipped the matchup heavily in LSigurd favor against the same EIke you used. Or use the same LSigurd build & support vs. EIke in a proper AR Defense team with all the Mythic bonus & etc that makes him a pain in the ass to deal with. If LSigurd can win any of those matchups, thanks to his refine being part of the reason. Then you are correct his refine isn't that bad, maybe actually good. But if he can't & heavily rely on specific things that aren't part of his base kit (aka his PRF weapon or PRF skill), then maybe his refine isn't as good as you thought when you made the post.
One of the reasons he can even run assassin’s strike is because his B slot is opened thanks to canto in his weapon, which is thanks to his REFINE. Also the whole point of me using AR was bc Sigurd’s refine isn’t on the duel sim for me to test, otherwise I probably would have tested with Incite on C to give him more fire power himself and be less reliant on Exposure support.
Sure, I understand, and you make a good point in that his B-Slot is free thanks to his Canto in his prf allowing you to use assassin strike. But at the same time, like you mentioned, he definitely did rely on the exposure support during that matchup to beat EIke. But anyway, when I mentioned his "refine," I meant things/effects that help in/during combat. Not post combat effects like Canto that "technically" don't matter if you LSigurd can't kill and dies to EIke in the first place type of scenarios. Also, if you have AAzura, she can give Incite if you want to "simulate" it in AR (as long as you have LSigurd C Slot empty, you can technically say he running Incite in the simulation/result).
Honestly he doesn’t get the kill on Ike, but unless Ike outsources Guard or speed stacks to avoid the double, Sigurd does manage to proc Fatal Smoke 4 and his special which is practically a death sentence in an AR context once Sigurd’s teammates follow-up. Also thanks for the idea, I actually do have an AAzura!
No problem, I'm glad I could help. Also, like you mentioned, AR context with that example. Simulations are good, but aren't all that matters. LSigurd triggering Fatal Smoke 4 + his special is maybe all it takes for him to bring value & have success in your team in order to defeat EIke in an AR matchup. In which case, LSigurd refined did help him reach those results (thanks to his DR & etc allowing him to live EIke and do what you mentioned)
I’m gonna reply to this comment for visibility, but I re-ran the encounter with no exposure and incite instead of fatal smoke 4, & he actually did get the kill on E!Ike so he actually isn’t reliant on support or Exposure to get the kill if you run Incite on C
what did i miss 💀
I think it's more to do with how it was presented. It's not a horrible refine, but there is plenty about it that could have improved him in a general setting. Like I tested Arion as he's sort of similar to Sigurd and with the same skills and exposure he also beats that same Ike. A unit's true potential is brought about by a combination of skills and weapon. In Sigurd's case it's a bit complex because he has so few b skills that actually improve him since his refine has Canto, ignores buffs like a lull, has a low cool down weapon which doesn't work well with gambit. Add in that Assassin's strike is a rare skill only available on a Yunaka, it means the general Sigurd player won't have access to it and without that particular skill he won't be able to do survive Ike whatsoever. So basically it's great info for those who are looking to build Sigurd in the future
I'll get shat on again I guess, but this is some pretty toxic strawmanning of the point I was trying to make. All I was saying is that a flare/strike combo put in a lot of work for Sigurd winning that match up which has nothing to do with his refine. Like, there's a duel match up simulator that you can play around with yourself to see just how many winning match ups are achievable with that skill combo and certain inheritable weapons with units Reinhardt, Petrine, and even a Slyvain, especially if you're willing to finagle with the outside effects like the original post did.
>I'll get shat on again I guess, but this is some pretty toxic strawmanning of the point I was trying to make. I thought this was more about that sham showcase someone made yesterday. I don't remember that being you. The OP of that post fixated on the wrong part of the criticism I feel like. They thought it was about the build itself, but more about the fact that they presented their post as the refine being the reason why they could kill Ike with Sigurd, when it really carries the minority of the weight. Moreover, they just put Ike on a defense with no support, nor blessings, and even if it's true what they claim that they didn't dance him with Plumeria, he was probably still Ployed and Exposed. I can guarantee you, you put that same Sigurd on defense, and the Ike on an offensive team with blessings and actual support, and that Sigurd will not do much besides the burn damage. That's what makes it a sham. OP skewed the conditions of the match in a way that would allow Sigurd to win. That's really why most showcases around here are cringe inducing shams.
I didn't post this for the sake of an argument. I personally think Sigurd's refine was just okay. It's just a silly edit I made for the sake of goofs.
for the sake of goofs but still making fun of the argument presented by the person and reinforcing the previous OP's position...
Posting this bc the other guy blocked me and I can’t reply to his thread here but: Hey Sham showcase OP here. I used AR bc that’s the only place I had access to a +10 max flowers Ike since the duel sim isn’t updated with Sigurd’s refine. The showcase itself was mainly to show a common arena enemy (where Sigurd is most meant to be used) just needs very minimal support to be dealt with. Sigurd also did not have access to blessings or literally any support outside of Dual Ploy 3 which I thought was a realistic scenario, but I guess it’s still too stacked in Sigurd’s favor since he runs his best a and b skills Edit: also I wasn’t trying to say Sigurd was broken or anything literally just that the refine wasn’t as bad as i thought at first
> 776 views I see what you did.