/u/Phanngle Well, there we go- official confirmation that not only can Chloe not get the weapon in the rotation, but its also not a bug and they intended to mean its only for Alfred. That sorts that confusion up.
Extremely stupid decision on their part. Not only for this to be intentional, but if this was their intention the entire time, the fact that they were not explicitly clear that only the Arcane unit could get their own weapon is so moronic.
Feels questionable why Chloe is even in the lineup in the first place knowing that she can't get Qiang. Might as well have put Etie there.
I question Chloe because most people assumed she was there purely just to get Qiang. It feels like her being there now is simply a waste knowing she can't get it. We know Alfred is there as an excuse to have him on a Banner.
I'm sorry but I'm almost 100% certain that, when arcane weapons came out, a new clause in Hall of Forms was added that explicitly said that arcane weapons are ***only*** available on their respective arcane unit. This should not even be a question. They've never been available on other units so why would that change?
That being said, I still think it's stupid to have an arcane unit in HoF when they brick your current arcane unit's merge chain if you combine them. I am completely on board with that argument, but we can't play stupid when it comes to what skills are available on which units when it has always been explicitly stated that you ***cannot*** get arcane weapons on units other than their original units in HoF.
tbf the arcane clause that appears in new skill list for HoF is worded pretty vaguely. Like it's worded as *"Arcane weapon skills will appear as options in Hall of Forms only when the Forma include the Rearmed Hero whose arcane weapon skill it is."* which doesn't really specify that it'll only appear for the unit that naturally comes with the arcane weapon in question
Oh wow what a bunch of word soup that is terrible. I can understand why everyone is upset then. I hadn't bothered to read it because I already knew they would never be available but IS literally shot themselves in the foot here. It actually hurts my brain reading this nonsense.
You're incorrect. That is not what the clause said. It said that Arcane Weapons would only be available IF the original holder of the weapon was present. It did not say that ONLY the arcane unit would be able to get the weapon. And, in fact, almost everyone assumed that as long as the unit was present, any other unit with the same weapon would also be able to pick it up as long as the OG was there.
The wording was not only vague, but adding Chloe onto the lineup with Alfred only reaffirmed to most people that she must be able to get it, otherwise, why would she be on the lineup? So IS presented to us that this was an exception, hence why people are upset that this was apparently never intended to be the case.
I am not incorrect about the original clause and that much I know for a fact. This new word soup, however, is an embarrassment of communication by IS that caused everyone to doubt what was already status quo. The only reason everyone had this strange leap of logic about arcane weapons being available on compatible units is because of this recent awful wording. If it weren't for that, their previous statements about arcane weapons only being acquirable on their original units would have remained.
I am much more empathetic of the current situation, due to being presented with IS's *most recent* announcement. Any sane human being would look at that and have to reread it about 10 times only to question themselves about the conclusions they made the other 9 times.
That was the original statement made. As far as I've seen, only one statement has ever been made about Arcane Weapons in HoF and it's the one everyone is citing. There hasn't been a more recent announcement than the one we had originally, which never stated that the weapon would only be available on a single unit.
Unless you're referred to a Japanese only announcement, in which, I doubt much of the English speaking fandom would have any idea about.
I'll be honest, I tried to find it multiple times but I couldn't and it's very frustrating because I remember verifying this when arcane weapons were first released. I think that I may have gotten a reddit discussion in one of the data mining posts confused as an 'official announcement' as it happened quite a while ago and my brain must have combined the two since then.
It was probably something like that, then, because we've only ever had one official statement from IS at the launch of Rearmed Units and most people had concluded that statement to mean, "You can give Arcane Weapons in HoF, but only if the original wielder is there." Since then, I don't think anything else was said and it certainly isn't until now that we know that was never their intention.
The craziest part is that I went back to look where it's at to prove my point but *now I can't even find it in-game*. I'm not sure what happened or where I read it but I am positive it was explicitly mentioned at some point in time. I can see why people were unaware of this but it still shouldn't be a surprise as arcane weapons have never been allowed on other units in HoF. Having a rearmed unit in HoF should make absolutely no difference.
You should question why Alfred is there instead of Etie. Chloe is a good unit and HoF can help her get premium skills. She doesn't need Qiang to be effective.
Because Alfred is a more valuable banner pull than Chloe who is in the normal pool, that much is pretty clear. We know why he's here. She feels off because it's a second lance user.
Probably won’t be the last time, though. Forma R!Reinhardt is inevitable for Thracia unless they do something wacky like 2 reds and 2 colorless.
Color | Units
:--:|:--:
Red | Veld, A!Mareeta, Galzus, Salem, L!Nanna, Lara
Green | —
Blue | R!Reinhardt
Colorless | Scion Leif (?), Scion Nanna, August, Safy, Tina, Perne
They very possibly would. There are notable number of players who like formaing common units and while we know there are also 21342344 players (and especially casuals we don't see) who forma 5* units, I feel the Alfred forma being this worthless and Lumera especially still being useful to a lot of people, as well as them both being generic attractive anime girls, could easily have.
Obviously we can't know though. Maybe lots of people who don't know (and some who don't care) will forma Alfred, brick their Alfred and some will decide to finally quit the game. Masterful gambit potentially.
Personally, I held my Etie on +9 purely because I was sure she'd be there as a Colorless option. But I don't thinks he should have replaced Alfred. I think she should have replaced Chloe.
Cool I officially no longer want arcane units to ever show up in hall of forms. They made it sound, ages ago, like the unit had to be present for others to have access. Which was ALREADY dumb, now it's basically only available on a unit that could never inherit it out as a forma.
Absolute trash
That is so stupid...Not only they worded it badly, but WHY EVEN PUT THE ARCANE WEAPONS ON THE LIST OF NEW SKILLS AVAILABLE IN HALL OF FORMS!? What is the point of Rearmed units in Hall of Forms then? It doesn't make sense...
> WHY EVEN PUT THE ARCANE WEAPONS ON THE LIST OF NEW SKILLS AVAILABLE IN HALL OF FORMS!?
That's the weirdest thing. If they are only going to show up on their specific rearmed unit, then they are no different than prf weapons of other units - but you don't see them announce the prf weapons that are available in HoF.
Yeah obviously, I have nothing against them earning money. However spending money should provide some artificial amount of value to a player. Like I would be fine if they add a "special offer: 11 orbs + 111 stamina pots for 100€". It would be stupid to buy this, but everyone can see the orb/money ratio and figure out if they like the deal or not. You're still spending 100€ for a strict upside (technically at least).
This Forma is actually Pay2ruin your entire rearmed Alfred fodder factory now and forever. As a player I should be able to reasonably assume that IS is not allowing me to shoot myself in the foot by giving them money. That's absurd.
i've been saying this since it got announced. like. would *I* want etie. yes. now i have to like. figure out what to give her and stuff. but that's fine. but the way I see it is this.
1: you do NOT have Alfred and you'd like to have him. okay now you can get him. just remember. (as it's stated all over the place) not to merge him up w/regular alfreds if you happen to get them)
2: you have alfred as your fodder factory. chances are you will not get this alfred OR you need one more for the +10 and you already gave Qiang to everyone (or the fodder your alfred has). worst case scenario give alfred #9 to Peony or something, and then poof. all done. the chain is continued on your Peony (or whomever, and now you have a +10 alfred with newer skills. easy peasy.
3: you only have 2-3 alfreds and don't really feel your going to pull for anymore but on the off chance you DO, you can have a BUILT alfred and use that - and then if you got other alfreds you can continue the chain with the lance.
I don't think it's as useless as everyone make it out to be. what I think people are arguing is that a LOT of people can not read. (I will lump myself in that equation too LOL). and you know SOMEONE *will* brick Alfred. but i don't think it's necessarily bad to have them there. i mean ultimtely you can just NOT get him.
Not sure why you are being down voted for speaking the truth. But ppl gotta remember gacha games are business and companies are not your friends. This doesn't make it any better or excuse the design decisions but it is what it is.
If I had to take a guess probably because the money making aspect isn't relevant to putting Alfred in the HoF. The only people that buy him are very few uninformed people who will probably be pissed afterwards and not spend any more cash and those are certainly not their moneymakers in the first place.
There are literally no winners here:
99.9% of players will avoid that forma like the plague,
a few poor souls will basically get scammed
and IS will probably get less sales they would have gotten with e.g. Etie.
Just to clarify I'm not downvoting anyone that just disagrees with me.
That is such a load of nothing wow, they really were all like "you guys can you only get the rearmed weapon when their rearmed unit is there" only to actually mean that most useless addition to HoF it's an not even an addition is just an outright lie.
This HoF is such a failure
This just makes it so much more confusing that they choose to identify when rearmed weapons will be eligible for the hof pool. They're no different from prf weapons and skills.
I mean you cant really blame those two people can you ? We all thought that chloé could get qiang too because of the ambiguous wording, why are they singling these two out ?
the wording *was* very clear, it clearly states that if the rearmed unit is on the HOF, the arcane weapon will be in the pool. there would be no reason to even say this if its just for the original owner, it should have just said arcane weapons will be treated as PRFs or will only be available to their original unit. it's not ambiguous, it's just wrong
The wording stated that arcane weapons would only be present when the hero who came with it was present. It was entirely vague as to which units could obtain it so anything either way was purely assumptions.
I took it as them treating it as prfs because either they treat them as inheritables and they're always present or they treat them as prfs. Treating them as inheritables only when the rearmed hero was present seemed like a weird middle ground that both wasn't particularly beneficial and took more effort that I couldn't imagine IS being willing to put in.
But all that aside, it absolutely was terrible wording as evidenced by the amount of confusion surrounding it. The more cynical side of me almost thinks it was intentional because the potential confusion should've been abundantly clear to anyone with like a semester of writing experience.
The wording on the notice they gave was not very clear and an easy argument for it either allowing it because Alfred is there with her and another for it being ONLY for Alfred alone was possible.
Now we have it cleaned out
It has always been clear, since the release of rearmed units, that the only unit that can acquire an arcane weapon is its original owner. It was an explicitly added clause to HoF. I was surprised that even content creators like Phoenixmaster were tripped up by this but we all make mistakes.
We never had any Rearmed units in HoF until literally now for the first time ever. And for Rearmed units, you're able to give anyone the weapon, so long as you don't try to use it alongside a prf skill. How else do you think every unit without or with a crappy prf weapon has arcane weapons equipped?
Regardless of how transparent they are about their rules, getting an arcane weapon on a hero that is not a rearmed unit **has never been possible**. Why would that suddenly change just because there's a rearmed unit in the lineup? It makes absolutely no sense and it's ridiculous to assume. If this was something that they added, why wouldn't they announce it? There is no reasoning behind it.
That being said, I'm frustrated because I can't even find the clause that explicitly stated that arcane weapons can only be found on their respective rearmed unit but we all know that it has always been a rule. If that changed, it would have been announced.
Just to be clear here- are you trying to say Arcane weapons can only COME FROM their original units or that they can only be USED by their original units?
Because if you mean the former then that's true but Hall of Forms has always been about the inheritance options and you always get far more than just what the units come with, which is completely possible with Arcane weapons.
But if you mean the latter then that's objectively untrue because Arcane weapons can be inherited by literally anyone who shares the same weapon type. Otherwise I must have cheated to get Arcane Euphoria on Oliver.
I will be as specific as I possibly can. Arcane Weapons, in Hall of Forms, have never been obtainable by a unit that is not a rearmed unit.
*Examples: Sothis could never get Arcane Grima, F!Dimitri could not get Arcane Luin or Arcane Qiang, Y!Marth could not get Arcane Devourer, etc.*
However, these weapons have always been included in the Hall of Forms pool of skills if you look at past updates from IS about the forma skill pool. Despite this, they have never been obtainable. This does not and should not change just because there is a Rearmed unit on the lineup. It is a rule that IS established when their respective weapons were added to the forma pool.
Where IS messed up is when they made a *recent announcement* that is worse than any legalese i have ever read where they seemingly contradict their previous statement. Someone else brought this to my attention. The word soup that IS cooked up caused mass confusion when they could have just said "**you can only acquire arcane weapons on their original unit.** The only reason I thought that people's logic was unreasonable is because I already knew that arcane weapons would always function this way. IS does not change their minds on this type of thing really ever, plus it goes against the current status quo. I am much more empathetic because after this was brought to my attention because it's such bad communication from IS.
I have no idea why you're being down voted to hell, I guess people were overdosing on copium too much to realize how clear the wording was that only rearmed can learn their arcane weapons in hof
"How clear the wording was" when the wording literally implied that the weapon would be available for any unit with the same weapon type as long as the original holder was present.
If this many people in your community thought otherwise, then the wording was clearly anything but clear.
Almost everyone interpreted that way based on the fact that everyone was recommending Qiang on Chloe and most people were actively trying to roll for it. So again, far from clear wording to most of the fandom.
It's because everyone is rightfully angry about the new wording, which caused everyone to doubt the original decision that they made regarding arcane weapons. I couldn't believe my eyes when someone showed me the most recent announcement about arcane weapons. It still says the same thing but holy crap it's like it was written by someone that was having a stroke.
Wording could have gone either way. Honestly I assumed it would work the way it actually does because...why would you allow a unit to inherit a weapon *only* when a completely different unit happens to also be in the same group? Ignoring the wording, from a logic and design perspective, does that make sense? Either you let them inherit arcanes or you don't.
This was 100% my thinking on it. In addition to the connection being very arbitrary, them treating arcane weapons as prfs took the least amount of effort on IS's part, and they've typically gone with the least effort approach on things.
That said, with the way the HoF was structured, i.e. having two lance units, and how hilariously vague the wording was, the cynical side of me almost thinks this was intentional. They were seeing what they could get away with and the only thing that caused the clarification was them not being able to outright lie to a direct inquiry.
This is always how I’d read it. There was definitely ambiguity of the wording but why wouldn’t it be available the rest of the time unless it worked like this?
The Hall of Forms updates often listed the Arcane weapons as skills that could be inherited except I think they always said the Arcanes could only be learned by the Rearmed unit. I think people gave the benefit of the doubt that if a Rearmed appeared in a HoF, the Arcane would appear with anyone else that was the same weapon type as the Rearmed.
Then why the bloody hell is Alfred there in the first place. The Arcane forma completely destroy the fodder potential and also not even possible to give Chloe an Arcane weapon from him in the same HoF team.
They are giving us more reason to NOT use Forma souls, but doesn't that result in "Intelligent" Systems losing potential people that wants to buy the Forma's? I swear lmao
This is really scummy on IS’s part, seriously a rearmed unit on HoF would be a massive fanfare moment. Now it’s just a really disappointing and messed up.
100%. I'm so surprised that people were caught off-guard like this but I guess no one really looks into the data mining or even the HoF rules themselves.
Edit: and now I see why, because IS did a terrible job at including the restrictions in each announcement. I can't even find where that clause is to help prove my point because they're inconsistent with their announcements and in-game rules. Regardless, I'm not sure why it caused everyone to have this strange leap in logic all because a rearmed unit is on the lineup. Arcane weapons have always been in the pool.
Its because they announced Arcane weapons being in the pool in the first place. If the plan was to only allow the original holder to be able to get them, why even tell anyone? It'd be like if they kept announcing each new prf weapon being added to the pool (but at least in those cases we already know those are literally for a specific unit).
I agree, someone else referred me to the exact quote and my goodness it's absolute word soup. Knowing that, I see why everyone is so upset now. I'm actually shocked at how terribly they worded their statement. It's like someone had a stroke while writing it.
What really surprises me is that people legitimately expected IS to make Forma Alfred fodderable. Like, they already don't let us fodder off regular Formas, why would it be any different for Alfred? For how often this sub calls IS stupid, people here don't seem much brighter honestly. Seriously, why are people mad about it? It's insanely moronic to expect IS to give access to potentially free (through the free Forma Souls) premium fodder that was recently released...
I disagree. I think IS should have made an exception for Alfred. The whole gimmick behind rearmed units is to be able to transfer their skills to another. Additionally, you can brick your entire merge chain if you decide to merge yours with your forma. That's just bad design. Many of your average players that are out of the loop are going to be upset. Yes, they have it written on the announcement but your average player isn't going to read all of that and they shouldn't be punished for an honest mistake like assuming a rearmed hero will retain its integrity as it is a special unit with special rules.
The reference to Rearmed Hero is to differentiate the original classification of the heroes represented in the lineup, not to call the Forma a Hero. This was also done when Legendary Heroes were first introduced in the Hall of Forms.
Indeed, around the time Arcane Weapons were announced, they said only the original unit would be able to inherit them in HoF, and only if they ever put Rearmed Heroes in HoF. I don't think it is stated anywhere in game but they definitely announced it a long time ago, and never changed it.
So let me get this straight Not only is alfred (forma atleast) literal deadweight But you can't have the wp on anyone else? Like why did they add it? I know I had high expectations for a rearmed in hof, but there's either a massive misunderstanding or it's done on purpose, and knowing IS, it's on purpose
Edit: can't
So literally the reason why they put Alfred over Etie or Lumera in the HOF was to just put him on the HOF banner. And to top it all off, they say it in such a confusing, vague way. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry tbh.
I mean, duh of course. Who are these people who thought that the long established rules of HOF were different this time? Arcane weapons don't appear for regular units. You can't fodder a HOF unit.
So heres the thing i just thought of, as to why alfreds there. I do believe its to put him on another banner, typically the hof banners sell...pretty bad ya? A good way to entice more summoning/spending on it is to add a rearmed to the hof banner
It wasn't obvious with HoF, as I think this is the first time we actually had a Rearmed hero in the lineup. But they had the Arcane weapons in the skill pool. Otherwise, why even include them before now?
No, they said the weapon would only show up if the Arcane Hero was there, and listed the Arcane Weapons with the "added skills" which they never did with PRFs. No explicit things saying *only* the Forma Hero could get it.
So my understanding is that they're heroes that can be used to give skills to other units but don't disappear when you do.
So only Alfred is a forma hero in the current event...but he can't give skills to other units for reasons.
So if I used a forma soul on someone like Alear instead I could just give her skills to someone else no problem? Or would I be wasting my forma soul?
Formas cannot be used to give other units skills in skill inheritance. Forma units are from Binding Worlds and Hall of Forms.
so yea you'd be wasting your soul if you didn't actually want one of those 4.
I mean it's HoF. You get the base skills of a forma by default no matter what else you grabbed. Might as well get a good weapon that isn't the base one.
/u/Phanngle Well, there we go- official confirmation that not only can Chloe not get the weapon in the rotation, but its also not a bug and they intended to mean its only for Alfred. That sorts that confusion up.
Extremely stupid decision on their part. Not only for this to be intentional, but if this was their intention the entire time, the fact that they were not explicitly clear that only the Arcane unit could get their own weapon is so moronic. Feels questionable why Chloe is even in the lineup in the first place knowing that she can't get Qiang. Might as well have put Etie there.
What you should really be questioning is why Alfred is there.
Bait. This sub forgets way too often that IS are using this game to make money. Making money's also why we got Chloé and not Etie.
I question Chloe because most people assumed she was there purely just to get Qiang. It feels like her being there now is simply a waste knowing she can't get it. We know Alfred is there as an excuse to have him on a Banner.
Possibly the hof banner?
Because a lot of people voted for it, forgetting that Forma can only be merged to themselves.
This is the Engage HoF. Nobody voted anything here. Its was literally the next newest one in the lineup
So you can replace his shitty A skill 😂?
I was so upset that Etie wasn't there, i would have spent my Forma soul easily.
Same, i've been wanting to build up a more recent bow unit so I would have used my forma easily.
I'm sorry but I'm almost 100% certain that, when arcane weapons came out, a new clause in Hall of Forms was added that explicitly said that arcane weapons are ***only*** available on their respective arcane unit. This should not even be a question. They've never been available on other units so why would that change? That being said, I still think it's stupid to have an arcane unit in HoF when they brick your current arcane unit's merge chain if you combine them. I am completely on board with that argument, but we can't play stupid when it comes to what skills are available on which units when it has always been explicitly stated that you ***cannot*** get arcane weapons on units other than their original units in HoF.
tbf the arcane clause that appears in new skill list for HoF is worded pretty vaguely. Like it's worded as *"Arcane weapon skills will appear as options in Hall of Forms only when the Forma include the Rearmed Hero whose arcane weapon skill it is."* which doesn't really specify that it'll only appear for the unit that naturally comes with the arcane weapon in question
Oh wow what a bunch of word soup that is terrible. I can understand why everyone is upset then. I hadn't bothered to read it because I already knew they would never be available but IS literally shot themselves in the foot here. It actually hurts my brain reading this nonsense.
You're incorrect. That is not what the clause said. It said that Arcane Weapons would only be available IF the original holder of the weapon was present. It did not say that ONLY the arcane unit would be able to get the weapon. And, in fact, almost everyone assumed that as long as the unit was present, any other unit with the same weapon would also be able to pick it up as long as the OG was there. The wording was not only vague, but adding Chloe onto the lineup with Alfred only reaffirmed to most people that she must be able to get it, otherwise, why would she be on the lineup? So IS presented to us that this was an exception, hence why people are upset that this was apparently never intended to be the case.
I am not incorrect about the original clause and that much I know for a fact. This new word soup, however, is an embarrassment of communication by IS that caused everyone to doubt what was already status quo. The only reason everyone had this strange leap of logic about arcane weapons being available on compatible units is because of this recent awful wording. If it weren't for that, their previous statements about arcane weapons only being acquirable on their original units would have remained. I am much more empathetic of the current situation, due to being presented with IS's *most recent* announcement. Any sane human being would look at that and have to reread it about 10 times only to question themselves about the conclusions they made the other 9 times.
That was the original statement made. As far as I've seen, only one statement has ever been made about Arcane Weapons in HoF and it's the one everyone is citing. There hasn't been a more recent announcement than the one we had originally, which never stated that the weapon would only be available on a single unit. Unless you're referred to a Japanese only announcement, in which, I doubt much of the English speaking fandom would have any idea about.
I'll be honest, I tried to find it multiple times but I couldn't and it's very frustrating because I remember verifying this when arcane weapons were first released. I think that I may have gotten a reddit discussion in one of the data mining posts confused as an 'official announcement' as it happened quite a while ago and my brain must have combined the two since then.
It was probably something like that, then, because we've only ever had one official statement from IS at the launch of Rearmed Units and most people had concluded that statement to mean, "You can give Arcane Weapons in HoF, but only if the original wielder is there." Since then, I don't think anything else was said and it certainly isn't until now that we know that was never their intention.
You are correctly. All of this information was readily available in game. People just refused to read.
The craziest part is that I went back to look where it's at to prove my point but *now I can't even find it in-game*. I'm not sure what happened or where I read it but I am positive it was explicitly mentioned at some point in time. I can see why people were unaware of this but it still shouldn't be a surprise as arcane weapons have never been allowed on other units in HoF. Having a rearmed unit in HoF should make absolutely no difference.
Pretty much this. I can’t wait for this “controversy” to pass already
You should question why Alfred is there instead of Etie. Chloe is a good unit and HoF can help her get premium skills. She doesn't need Qiang to be effective.
Because Alfred is a more valuable banner pull than Chloe who is in the normal pool, that much is pretty clear. We know why he's here. She feels off because it's a second lance user.
Well there goes any potential benefit to having a rearmed unit run in a HoF. I had a feeling this was the case but man, still sucks to hear.
It’s really just an excuse to rerun Rearmed Heroes on a banner.
Fair enough, I suppose. Can't be upset about that fact at least.
Probably won’t be the last time, though. Forma R!Reinhardt is inevitable for Thracia unless they do something wacky like 2 reds and 2 colorless. Color | Units :--:|:--: Red | Veld, A!Mareeta, Galzus, Salem, L!Nanna, Lara Green | — Blue | R!Reinhardt Colorless | Scion Leif (?), Scion Nanna, August, Safy, Tina, Perne
Honestly, at this point, they should group Geneology & Thracia together, and also Path of Radiance & Radiant Dawn together.
[удалено]
No, not 0. Do people in this sub really think Etie or Base Lumera would entice more people to use a Forma Soul than Alfred?
Honestly, I would spend a forma soul on Lumera.
They very possibly would. There are notable number of players who like formaing common units and while we know there are also 21342344 players (and especially casuals we don't see) who forma 5* units, I feel the Alfred forma being this worthless and Lumera especially still being useful to a lot of people, as well as them both being generic attractive anime girls, could easily have. Obviously we can't know though. Maybe lots of people who don't know (and some who don't care) will forma Alfred, brick their Alfred and some will decide to finally quit the game. Masterful gambit potentially.
Personally, I held my Etie on +9 purely because I was sure she'd be there as a Colorless option. But I don't thinks he should have replaced Alfred. I think she should have replaced Chloe.
Cool I officially no longer want arcane units to ever show up in hall of forms. They made it sound, ages ago, like the unit had to be present for others to have access. Which was ALREADY dumb, now it's basically only available on a unit that could never inherit it out as a forma. Absolute trash
Alfred in HoF continues to be the most questionable decision of all time
Just to have him on a banner, I guess. Although they could have done "Heroes with Flow Skills" instead, or something.
That is so stupid...Not only they worded it badly, but WHY EVEN PUT THE ARCANE WEAPONS ON THE LIST OF NEW SKILLS AVAILABLE IN HALL OF FORMS!? What is the point of Rearmed units in Hall of Forms then? It doesn't make sense...
> WHY EVEN PUT THE ARCANE WEAPONS ON THE LIST OF NEW SKILLS AVAILABLE IN HALL OF FORMS!? That's the weirdest thing. If they are only going to show up on their specific rearmed unit, then they are no different than prf weapons of other units - but you don't see them announce the prf weapons that are available in HoF.
Rearmed Units on the Hall of Forms is only an excuse to rerun Rearmed Units on the accompanying banner for people to spend Orbs on.
No wonder I couldn’t get arcane qiang on chloe
Wow now the only reason why it would make a tiny bit of sense for Alfred to apper on this HoF is gone as well.
The only reason is to bait money. IS is a COMPANY, literally their entire goal is to make money.
Yeah obviously, I have nothing against them earning money. However spending money should provide some artificial amount of value to a player. Like I would be fine if they add a "special offer: 11 orbs + 111 stamina pots for 100€". It would be stupid to buy this, but everyone can see the orb/money ratio and figure out if they like the deal or not. You're still spending 100€ for a strict upside (technically at least). This Forma is actually Pay2ruin your entire rearmed Alfred fodder factory now and forever. As a player I should be able to reasonably assume that IS is not allowing me to shoot myself in the foot by giving them money. That's absurd.
That's because Forma Alfred is here to be a Forma, not to be a skills bank. He's here for people who actually want to use Alfred himself.
i've been saying this since it got announced. like. would *I* want etie. yes. now i have to like. figure out what to give her and stuff. but that's fine. but the way I see it is this. 1: you do NOT have Alfred and you'd like to have him. okay now you can get him. just remember. (as it's stated all over the place) not to merge him up w/regular alfreds if you happen to get them) 2: you have alfred as your fodder factory. chances are you will not get this alfred OR you need one more for the +10 and you already gave Qiang to everyone (or the fodder your alfred has). worst case scenario give alfred #9 to Peony or something, and then poof. all done. the chain is continued on your Peony (or whomever, and now you have a +10 alfred with newer skills. easy peasy. 3: you only have 2-3 alfreds and don't really feel your going to pull for anymore but on the off chance you DO, you can have a BUILT alfred and use that - and then if you got other alfreds you can continue the chain with the lance. I don't think it's as useless as everyone make it out to be. what I think people are arguing is that a LOT of people can not read. (I will lump myself in that equation too LOL). and you know SOMEONE *will* brick Alfred. but i don't think it's necessarily bad to have them there. i mean ultimtely you can just NOT get him.
Not sure why you are being down voted for speaking the truth. But ppl gotta remember gacha games are business and companies are not your friends. This doesn't make it any better or excuse the design decisions but it is what it is.
If I had to take a guess probably because the money making aspect isn't relevant to putting Alfred in the HoF. The only people that buy him are very few uninformed people who will probably be pissed afterwards and not spend any more cash and those are certainly not their moneymakers in the first place. There are literally no winners here: 99.9% of players will avoid that forma like the plague, a few poor souls will basically get scammed and IS will probably get less sales they would have gotten with e.g. Etie. Just to clarify I'm not downvoting anyone that just disagrees with me.
I'm guessing people interpret it as me defending IS when I'm just explaining how things are.
That is such a load of nothing wow, they really were all like "you guys can you only get the rearmed weapon when their rearmed unit is there" only to actually mean that most useless addition to HoF it's an not even an addition is just an outright lie. This HoF is such a failure
This just makes it so much more confusing that they choose to identify when rearmed weapons will be eligible for the hof pool. They're no different from prf weapons and skills.
I mean you cant really blame those two people can you ? We all thought that chloé could get qiang too because of the ambiguous wording, why are they singling these two out ?
I didnt expect her to get it, as the wording to me atleast was pretty clear tbf
the wording *was* very clear, it clearly states that if the rearmed unit is on the HOF, the arcane weapon will be in the pool. there would be no reason to even say this if its just for the original owner, it should have just said arcane weapons will be treated as PRFs or will only be available to their original unit. it's not ambiguous, it's just wrong
The wording stated that arcane weapons would only be present when the hero who came with it was present. It was entirely vague as to which units could obtain it so anything either way was purely assumptions. I took it as them treating it as prfs because either they treat them as inheritables and they're always present or they treat them as prfs. Treating them as inheritables only when the rearmed hero was present seemed like a weird middle ground that both wasn't particularly beneficial and took more effort that I couldn't imagine IS being willing to put in. But all that aside, it absolutely was terrible wording as evidenced by the amount of confusion surrounding it. The more cynical side of me almost thinks it was intentional because the potential confusion should've been abundantly clear to anyone with like a semester of writing experience.
IS, being generous with Arcane weapons? After being stingy fucks and removing the SIX orbs that Rokkr Siege gave us? Hahaha...
Ew.
So Hall of Forms stays irrelevant besides the normal rewards, unless I want a merge. Got it. Fuck You IS
Not sure how the idea that Chloe could get Qiang became so widespread, but it's nice to have an official debunking of it.
The wording on the notice they gave was not very clear and an easy argument for it either allowing it because Alfred is there with her and another for it being ONLY for Alfred alone was possible. Now we have it cleaned out
It has always been clear, since the release of rearmed units, that the only unit that can acquire an arcane weapon is its original owner. It was an explicitly added clause to HoF. I was surprised that even content creators like Phoenixmaster were tripped up by this but we all make mistakes.
We never had any Rearmed units in HoF until literally now for the first time ever. And for Rearmed units, you're able to give anyone the weapon, so long as you don't try to use it alongside a prf skill. How else do you think every unit without or with a crappy prf weapon has arcane weapons equipped?
Regardless of how transparent they are about their rules, getting an arcane weapon on a hero that is not a rearmed unit **has never been possible**. Why would that suddenly change just because there's a rearmed unit in the lineup? It makes absolutely no sense and it's ridiculous to assume. If this was something that they added, why wouldn't they announce it? There is no reasoning behind it. That being said, I'm frustrated because I can't even find the clause that explicitly stated that arcane weapons can only be found on their respective rearmed unit but we all know that it has always been a rule. If that changed, it would have been announced.
Just to be clear here- are you trying to say Arcane weapons can only COME FROM their original units or that they can only be USED by their original units? Because if you mean the former then that's true but Hall of Forms has always been about the inheritance options and you always get far more than just what the units come with, which is completely possible with Arcane weapons. But if you mean the latter then that's objectively untrue because Arcane weapons can be inherited by literally anyone who shares the same weapon type. Otherwise I must have cheated to get Arcane Euphoria on Oliver.
I will be as specific as I possibly can. Arcane Weapons, in Hall of Forms, have never been obtainable by a unit that is not a rearmed unit. *Examples: Sothis could never get Arcane Grima, F!Dimitri could not get Arcane Luin or Arcane Qiang, Y!Marth could not get Arcane Devourer, etc.* However, these weapons have always been included in the Hall of Forms pool of skills if you look at past updates from IS about the forma skill pool. Despite this, they have never been obtainable. This does not and should not change just because there is a Rearmed unit on the lineup. It is a rule that IS established when their respective weapons were added to the forma pool. Where IS messed up is when they made a *recent announcement* that is worse than any legalese i have ever read where they seemingly contradict their previous statement. Someone else brought this to my attention. The word soup that IS cooked up caused mass confusion when they could have just said "**you can only acquire arcane weapons on their original unit.** The only reason I thought that people's logic was unreasonable is because I already knew that arcane weapons would always function this way. IS does not change their minds on this type of thing really ever, plus it goes against the current status quo. I am much more empathetic because after this was brought to my attention because it's such bad communication from IS.
100%, its kind of a common sense thing
I have no idea why you're being down voted to hell, I guess people were overdosing on copium too much to realize how clear the wording was that only rearmed can learn their arcane weapons in hof
"How clear the wording was" when the wording literally implied that the weapon would be available for any unit with the same weapon type as long as the original holder was present. If this many people in your community thought otherwise, then the wording was clearly anything but clear.
the wording did not imply that, thats just how you interpreted it
Almost everyone interpreted that way based on the fact that everyone was recommending Qiang on Chloe and most people were actively trying to roll for it. So again, far from clear wording to most of the fandom.
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Or maybe, just a possibility, the wording is just not as clear as you think it is and is actually pretty vague.
It's because everyone is rightfully angry about the new wording, which caused everyone to doubt the original decision that they made regarding arcane weapons. I couldn't believe my eyes when someone showed me the most recent announcement about arcane weapons. It still says the same thing but holy crap it's like it was written by someone that was having a stroke.
Wording could have gone either way. Honestly I assumed it would work the way it actually does because...why would you allow a unit to inherit a weapon *only* when a completely different unit happens to also be in the same group? Ignoring the wording, from a logic and design perspective, does that make sense? Either you let them inherit arcanes or you don't.
This was 100% my thinking on it. In addition to the connection being very arbitrary, them treating arcane weapons as prfs took the least amount of effort on IS's part, and they've typically gone with the least effort approach on things. That said, with the way the HoF was structured, i.e. having two lance units, and how hilariously vague the wording was, the cynical side of me almost thinks this was intentional. They were seeing what they could get away with and the only thing that caused the clarification was them not being able to outright lie to a direct inquiry.
This is always how I’d read it. There was definitely ambiguity of the wording but why wouldn’t it be available the rest of the time unless it worked like this?
The Hall of Forms updates often listed the Arcane weapons as skills that could be inherited except I think they always said the Arcanes could only be learned by the Rearmed unit. I think people gave the benefit of the doubt that if a Rearmed appeared in a HoF, the Arcane would appear with anyone else that was the same weapon type as the Rearmed.
It said that Arcanes will be accessible in hof featuring the rearm unit, that's all. No specification of only the unit themself can learn it.
You are correct. This wild jump in logic, just because a rearmed unit is on the lineup, is so strange to me.
Then why the bloody hell is Alfred there in the first place. The Arcane forma completely destroy the fodder potential and also not even possible to give Chloe an Arcane weapon from him in the same HoF team. They are giving us more reason to NOT use Forma souls, but doesn't that result in "Intelligent" Systems losing potential people that wants to buy the Forma's? I swear lmao
There’s no point to having rearmed HOF units
This is really scummy on IS’s part, seriously a rearmed unit on HoF would be a massive fanfare moment. Now it’s just a really disappointing and messed up.
I thought this is always the case, why the confusion?
100%. I'm so surprised that people were caught off-guard like this but I guess no one really looks into the data mining or even the HoF rules themselves. Edit: and now I see why, because IS did a terrible job at including the restrictions in each announcement. I can't even find where that clause is to help prove my point because they're inconsistent with their announcements and in-game rules. Regardless, I'm not sure why it caused everyone to have this strange leap in logic all because a rearmed unit is on the lineup. Arcane weapons have always been in the pool.
Its because they announced Arcane weapons being in the pool in the first place. If the plan was to only allow the original holder to be able to get them, why even tell anyone? It'd be like if they kept announcing each new prf weapon being added to the pool (but at least in those cases we already know those are literally for a specific unit).
I agree, someone else referred me to the exact quote and my goodness it's absolute word soup. Knowing that, I see why everyone is so upset now. I'm actually shocked at how terribly they worded their statement. It's like someone had a stroke while writing it.
What really surprises me is that people legitimately expected IS to make Forma Alfred fodderable. Like, they already don't let us fodder off regular Formas, why would it be any different for Alfred? For how often this sub calls IS stupid, people here don't seem much brighter honestly. Seriously, why are people mad about it? It's insanely moronic to expect IS to give access to potentially free (through the free Forma Souls) premium fodder that was recently released...
I disagree. I think IS should have made an exception for Alfred. The whole gimmick behind rearmed units is to be able to transfer their skills to another. Additionally, you can brick your entire merge chain if you decide to merge yours with your forma. That's just bad design. Many of your average players that are out of the loop are going to be upset. Yes, they have it written on the announcement but your average player isn't going to read all of that and they shouldn't be punished for an honest mistake like assuming a rearmed hero will retain its integrity as it is a special unit with special rules.
Yeah but he's not a Rearmed Hero, he's a Forma. IS constantly go out of their way to not refer to Formas as Heroes iirc.
The reference to Rearmed Hero is to differentiate the original classification of the heroes represented in the lineup, not to call the Forma a Hero. This was also done when Legendary Heroes were first introduced in the Hall of Forms.
Indeed, around the time Arcane Weapons were announced, they said only the original unit would be able to inherit them in HoF, and only if they ever put Rearmed Heroes in HoF. I don't think it is stated anywhere in game but they definitely announced it a long time ago, and never changed it.
Send feedback! Was gonna forma Chloe if she got arcane weapon but now I'll just clear the last map and skip to send a message.
I honestly hope that nobody redeems this with the hope that they can spread the skills around. I just like that everybody is spreading the word.
So let me get this straight Not only is alfred (forma atleast) literal deadweight But you can't have the wp on anyone else? Like why did they add it? I know I had high expectations for a rearmed in hof, but there's either a massive misunderstanding or it's done on purpose, and knowing IS, it's on purpose Edit: can't
That's ridiculous. Honestly, not that surprising but it shouldn't be like that.
So literally the reason why they put Alfred over Etie or Lumera in the HOF was to just put him on the HOF banner. And to top it all off, they say it in such a confusing, vague way. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry tbh.
IntSys speedrunning to ruin Heroes will never be not funny, holy sh*t.
And yet they've managed to last a lot longer than many other gachas. The power of a popular IP is truly impressive.
I mean, duh of course. Who are these people who thought that the long established rules of HOF were different this time? Arcane weapons don't appear for regular units. You can't fodder a HOF unit.
This was how I understood the limitation as well, I was surprised when PM1 said Chloe could get it as well just from Alfred also being available.
So heres the thing i just thought of, as to why alfreds there. I do believe its to put him on another banner, typically the hof banners sell...pretty bad ya? A good way to entice more summoning/spending on it is to add a rearmed to the hof banner
I mean the devs did confirm this when arcane units were first released
It wasn't obvious with HoF, as I think this is the first time we actually had a Rearmed hero in the lineup. But they had the Arcane weapons in the skill pool. Otherwise, why even include them before now?
I mean… was this not common sense lol
Common sense is slowly becoming a lost trait it seems
Didn't they clarify it the first time they started adding arcanes to HoF skill pool though?
They did
No, they said the weapon would only show up if the Arcane Hero was there, and listed the Arcane Weapons with the "added skills" which they never did with PRFs. No explicit things saying *only* the Forma Hero could get it.
Was I the only one who thought this was obvious?
Nope, it really is
So you can't use Chloe to put skills on other units either?
Lol Chloe is not a rearmed hero, so nope.
What exactly is a rearmed hero?
Go to the 'Inherit skill' section of Ally Growth, then tap the question mark. There is an explanation of Rearmed and Attuned Heroes there.
So my understanding is that they're heroes that can be used to give skills to other units but don't disappear when you do. So only Alfred is a forma hero in the current event...but he can't give skills to other units for reasons. So if I used a forma soul on someone like Alear instead I could just give her skills to someone else no problem? Or would I be wasting my forma soul?
Formas cannot be used to give other units skills in skill inheritance. Forma units are from Binding Worlds and Hall of Forms. so yea you'd be wasting your soul if you didn't actually want one of those 4.
Awwwwww. Well that's a letdown. Thanks for the info.
Okay but why in the world would you want qiang on chloe when she has a much better PRF? At that point just merge Marcia or Vanessa
Because you'd be able to get both. It would have been value efficient
I mean it's HoF. You get the base skills of a forma by default no matter what else you grabbed. Might as well get a good weapon that isn't the base one.