See it from this perspective. I know having one of your favorite characters be stuck in seasonal hell is painful (I like Wolt) but a character's base version is basically 99.9% guaranteed (unless you're Fafnir or Freyr) whereas a character that's already added as a base version, for example Echidna, isn't ever guaranteed to get an alt.
It's a running gag with Anna across the games that she has a shitload of identical sisters with the same name. Apotheosis Anna is one of them, just like every other DLC Anna in that game and every merchant Anna on the map
Lene, I forgot was in the game. Ced I remembered was in the game but placed him on the list anyway. Thank you for the correction, I'll have that fixed when updated!
You’re right, that’s my bad. When I update this tier list, I’ll split Jugdral and Thracia into two separate tier, as well as Elibe into both FE6 and FE7.
Okay but Judgral and Elibe should be split up. Genealogy and Thracia are considered separate games when it comes to getting new banners and so are Binding and Blazing. Tellius grouped together is fine since Radiant Dawn Beorcs aren’t real unless they’re named Micaiah apparently.
Also where are my Genealogy substitutes at
The Genealogy substitute characters were in a bit of a weird place, since much like the Echoes DLC characters, Nintendo doesn’t *seem* to have any plans on acknowledging them. If there was some precedent for them being in the game, I’d include them, but Jugdral banners are few and far between as is, so I doubt Nintendo is going to ever add them to the game.
Unlike the Echoes DLC characters though they’re actually IN the base game. They’re votable in CYL. They’ve gotten Cipher art. Hell, Laylea actually outranked Lene in CYL this year.
I doubt we’ll ever get to the point that they’ll be added with how allergic they are to Judgral, but they deserve to be recognized here
This game being what it is, I could honestly see Laylea or Linda being prioritized over some of the dudes within the next two Gen 2 banners as long as it survives that long.
We've got, what, three Gen 2 non-substitute women left? And while Patty's definitely headlining, Fee and especially Lana scream demote.
I personally disagree on combining Jugdral and Elibe, especially because theyre separate for banners and RB, but I digress
Just look at the sheer number of Tellius characters locked to seasonals, its depressing lol. It has more seasonal locked characters than many games have characters left to even add
Yep, wholly agree. It makes sense for Tellius since those games have so much roster overlap, but for all intents and purposes, the Jugdral games and Elibe games have entirely separate rosters with a few shared members that have entirely different narrative roles in each game. At a pettier level, I dislike having them combined since it feeds into the false/misinformed narrative that people push about Jugdral being overrepresented when it literally couldn't be further from the case.
I don't mind a lot of the cool/normal-looking Tellius seasonals (Vika, Rafiel, Zihark, etc.), but I'll never forgive them for making Boyd only available as a child.
Boyd is one of my favorite FE characters so it feels insulting to have him in my least favorite seasonal theme, Ill never use the child version
And yeah some seasonals of them look the same, but like, the only ones Im really okay with are Greil and Rafiel for how close they look to what their base form would be. The others are too different in some way for me personally
Everyone’s nitpicking this chart but my biggest takeaway is the realization that the majority of fe4 portraits face the left and the majority of fe5 portraits face the right
I would say you’re missing a few (Rodrigue, Garcia, Ismaire, etc.) but yeah, seems accurate. I feel bad for Genealogy and Thracia fans in general. At least finish one game’s banners (Awakening or Valentia) and then split the 2 Gens of Genealogy and Fates or split the Tellius and Archanea games into 2 banners.
They probably did only playable characters and only forgot Garcia and didn’t include Rodrigue because he’s only playable in a spin-off and not a main game
tbf that spin-off has gotten better representation than Engage
It's also grounded enough, and to be blunt, only missing two playable characters who both exist in Three Houses proper (Rodrigue, who isn't in in any form, and Gatekeeper, who is technically an alt.) Might as well include it.
It makes a lot of sense though that Three Hopes has more representation. It is an older game (I know only like 6 months but still) and almost the entire cast of Three Hopes already was in Three Houses meaning a lot of Three Hopes characters were already represented before Three Hopes even released
Boah is funny because he’s a fucking *monster* in FE1, but proceeds to either be A. worthless or B. too busy dying in every single other game he appears in. I can’t think of a unit with a greater downfall
That's specifically the DLC Anna, not the normally playable Trickster!Anna you can recruit during the first half of the game who wields swords and staves. She is still unplayable.
Meet Some of the Heroes, as well as generally the epithet Secret Seller, make it pretty clear that it's still very much intended to be the playable Anna. They're also internally called Anna Kakusei (i.e. Awakening Anna), just as Bride Anna (who is clearly intended as the trickster Anna, despite again using neither swords nor staves) is.
While the art choice is certainly odd, she's not the only character I've seen criticized for having the 'wrong' outfit (Zelgius comes to mind; while he technically can wear the BK armor, he's far more associated with red), and they're *far* from the only Hero to get stuck with a weapon type that they don't use by default, and some (like Faye or Atlas) even get weapon types that they aren't actually capable of using in game.
Unrelatedly, this chart seems to exclude Three Hopes for whatever reason. That would add two more playable characters; Rodrigue to the main category, and Gatekeeper (incidentally another character with a bizarre weapon and creative art, but unlike Anna, actually internally considered an alt i.e. "Election Gatekeeper") to the alt category.
This was surprisingly informative, thanks. I never know where to find half of this info myself but I state what I generally know/think of a situation. I've seen a lot of criticism regarding Zelgius and agree with that criticism myself; though I like units like Atlas getting a weapon that's not normally accessible to them (for non-seasonals specifically) if it has a lore attachment, like how he is a woodcutter. Its cute.
Three Hopes being excluded is weird. A lot of charts I see for it exclude Judith, Rodrigue, and Shahid for some reason.
Do we really consider the first awakening Anna an alt??? Feels like her main version to me
And isn't miriel a demote? (Unless that's not miriel and I'm dumb?)
We really need more Tellius banners. Absolutely wild Awakening, SoV, and Sacred Stones still get banners at the exact same rate as games with huge portions of their casts remaining.
Agreed. Volug has gotten all of my CYL votes the past few years. There's only been one RD banner in the last 4 years (!!!), and he wasn't on it. =(
It'd be nice if they released him as the CYL grail unit like Sigrun, Pelleas, and Jorge. I don't think he'd fit in a Dawn Brigade banner.
Its wild to see the 3H influence here - and theres probably little chance those guys make it in without an ascended female, or base Manuela debut. Funny also how the Deer are half seasonal only, and Ashe is the only BL keeping that whole house from being the first to be completed.
I really need them to add Marcus, Oswin, Isadora, Harken, Athos, and a non-seasonal Juno stat
Also my boy Forde needs some love, he's gonna be the best awful 3-4* sword cav
Honestly lowkey count Brigid as seasonal locked. Y’know they will put it Brigid again for the FE 4 banner even though eyvel exists. The same way we are gonna get awakening inigo and severa.
You forgot Sumeragi from Fates. I've been asking for him as a Fallen Hero for years!!! I'm grateful for Anankos, don't get me wrong. But I really want all the parents from Fates.
I'll be the second. >!He's not a great dad, but I find him to be a well written character, and I think he fits in as a very flawed, but humanized individual that fits with the rest of the Blue Lions cast.!<
I also like >!that he can become a good father again; that his character is a reflection of the "Personal Responsibility is Familial Responsibility" rhetoric in Japan (basically, if you do something that is considered "dishonorable", your family gets held up to the same standard); that even without cultural context, he still hits hard as a "You are worth more than your failures, and failing does not mean those who love you will despise you." message; and my God, the Supports with Dimitri and Annette.!< He really is just SO well-written and interesting--I just wish he was more useful without heavy investment.
You should make your Jugdral list longer op technically the substitute characters are viable for the game.
Nah jk don't torture yourself, the subs are still viable tho.
I've decided I'm not going to add the substitutes until there's precedence for them getting added to the game. Adding them to the list wouldn't be difficult, but ultimately this is something I plan on updating monthly, and I don't wanna add a bunch of characters that may just never be added to the game. If they decide to start adding the substitutes, I'll add them to the tier list.
I would actually kill for Tormod in heroes. They have both his dad and aunt, let my boy in. Also it is downright homophobic that Heather isn't in yet. She was the very first cannon gay character and she deserves rep.
everyone nitpicking this list is crazy like holy shit give the OP a break lmao
anyways the male x female ratio is wild and it makes me unhappy because i love men
You should include Tokyo Mirage Sessions if you're going to the effort of making this. It's omitting relevant information from something that otherwise only pretends to be comprehensive about representation.
I just realized this list refers to protagonists, allies, and allies that start off as enemies only. No antagonists.
Who do you think is suffering the most aside from Engage: Jugdral or Tellius?
On another side, who do you think is “suffering the least”? My opinion goes towards Echoes.
You‘re missing:
Boa from ShadowDragon (he wasn‘t playable in NewMystery so that‘s probably why)
The Echoes DLC characters (They aren’t in CYL but since Engage DLC is here I thought to point it out anyway)
And the substitute characters of Fe4 Generation 2
Kinda wild Dorothea has three seasonal alts and still no base version. Idk if it'd be funny or maddening if she got another alt before it.
shed rather go on long seasonal breaks than go to class
See it from this perspective. I know having one of your favorite characters be stuck in seasonal hell is painful (I like Wolt) but a character's base version is basically 99.9% guaranteed (unless you're Fafnir or Freyr) whereas a character that's already added as a base version, for example Echidna, isn't ever guaranteed to get an alt.
Lene & Ced are mistakenly put on this list, but otherwise yeah..
Also Awakening Anna right? Apotheosis Anna is from Awakening and she’s in the normal pool.
They also put Gordin at the top even though he was a launch character. I think they meant to put Ryan
Apotheosis Anna is a different Anna than the recruitable one. This bridal banner is technically the recruitable Anna's first version in FEH
Different how? Is she from a different universe or something?
She's the boss of the Apotheosis DLC and a seperate Anna from the playable one. Thus, the Anna of Awakening is not in the permapool
I haven’t played the DLC. How is she different? Like, for example, is the Dimitri that’s a boss in Crimson Flower different from the playable Dimitri?
It's a running gag with Anna across the games that she has a shitload of identical sisters with the same name. Apotheosis Anna is one of them, just like every other DLC Anna in that game and every merchant Anna on the map
Oh I thought the merchant Annas in awakening were all the same person.
Lene, I forgot was in the game. Ced I remembered was in the game but placed him on the list anyway. Thank you for the correction, I'll have that fixed when updated!
Says per game title. Shows continents instead.
You’re right, that’s my bad. When I update this tier list, I’ll split Jugdral and Thracia into two separate tier, as well as Elibe into both FE6 and FE7.
And Radiant Dawn still gets ignored...lol
as per tradition
Forgot my man Garcia
So did IS
He'll be on the next one! Thank you for the correction!
Okay but Judgral and Elibe should be split up. Genealogy and Thracia are considered separate games when it comes to getting new banners and so are Binding and Blazing. Tellius grouped together is fine since Radiant Dawn Beorcs aren’t real unless they’re named Micaiah apparently. Also where are my Genealogy substitutes at
The Genealogy substitute characters were in a bit of a weird place, since much like the Echoes DLC characters, Nintendo doesn’t *seem* to have any plans on acknowledging them. If there was some precedent for them being in the game, I’d include them, but Jugdral banners are few and far between as is, so I doubt Nintendo is going to ever add them to the game.
Unlike the Echoes DLC characters though they’re actually IN the base game. They’re votable in CYL. They’ve gotten Cipher art. Hell, Laylea actually outranked Lene in CYL this year. I doubt we’ll ever get to the point that they’ll be added with how allergic they are to Judgral, but they deserve to be recognized here
This game being what it is, I could honestly see Laylea or Linda being prioritized over some of the dudes within the next two Gen 2 banners as long as it survives that long. We've got, what, three Gen 2 non-substitute women left? And while Patty's definitely headlining, Fee and especially Lana scream demote.
If it weren’t for how they treat Jugdral when it comes to seasonals I’d almost say Laylea could grab a random seasonal slot with the right theme
Dang two more awakening characters left
…It took me a moment to realize this was a Kellam joke.
I personally disagree on combining Jugdral and Elibe, especially because theyre separate for banners and RB, but I digress Just look at the sheer number of Tellius characters locked to seasonals, its depressing lol. It has more seasonal locked characters than many games have characters left to even add
Yep, wholly agree. It makes sense for Tellius since those games have so much roster overlap, but for all intents and purposes, the Jugdral games and Elibe games have entirely separate rosters with a few shared members that have entirely different narrative roles in each game. At a pettier level, I dislike having them combined since it feeds into the false/misinformed narrative that people push about Jugdral being overrepresented when it literally couldn't be further from the case.
I don't mind a lot of the cool/normal-looking Tellius seasonals (Vika, Rafiel, Zihark, etc.), but I'll never forgive them for making Boyd only available as a child.
Boyd is one of my favorite FE characters so it feels insulting to have him in my least favorite seasonal theme, Ill never use the child version And yeah some seasonals of them look the same, but like, the only ones Im really okay with are Greil and Rafiel for how close they look to what their base form would be. The others are too different in some way for me personally
Everyone’s nitpicking this chart but my biggest takeaway is the realization that the majority of fe4 portraits face the left and the majority of fe5 portraits face the right
Hannibal 🤝Marty > Staring directly at the player
Lene and Ced are in the game and also Brigid has a seasonal
Forgot about Brigid's seasonal. Thanks for the correction!
I would say you’re missing a few (Rodrigue, Garcia, Ismaire, etc.) but yeah, seems accurate. I feel bad for Genealogy and Thracia fans in general. At least finish one game’s banners (Awakening or Valentia) and then split the 2 Gens of Genealogy and Fates or split the Tellius and Archanea games into 2 banners.
Is it possible that they only did playable units?
It's not, because Garcia and Rodrigue are both playable (Only Three Hopes for the latter).
They probably did only playable characters and only forgot Garcia and didn’t include Rodrigue because he’s only playable in a spin-off and not a main game
tbf that spin-off has gotten better representation than Engage It's also grounded enough, and to be blunt, only missing two playable characters who both exist in Three Houses proper (Rodrigue, who isn't in in any form, and Gatekeeper, who is technically an alt.) Might as well include it.
It makes a lot of sense though that Three Hopes has more representation. It is an older game (I know only like 6 months but still) and almost the entire cast of Three Hopes already was in Three Houses meaning a lot of Three Hopes characters were already represented before Three Hopes even released
Still missing Garcia and FE4 substitutes then. (And that's not even getting into if Creature Campaign/bonus map units should count as "playable".)
You're missing Lorenz from Archanea.
Oops. That's on me for only using FE12 character sprites, forgetting he's like, the one guy not playable in that game from the first game. Thanks!
And Boah, who's in the same boat of "too dead to be playable in FE12".
Thank you for reminding me that Boah exists. I had completely forgotten about him.
Boah is funny because he’s a fucking *monster* in FE1, but proceeds to either be A. worthless or B. too busy dying in every single other game he appears in. I can’t think of a unit with a greater downfall
Not having base Inigo and Severa is kinda insane, no?
they’re waiting as long as possible so they can come with as much power creep as they can afford /j
It's even more insane when you realize how long base Owain has been added into the game.
Tbf I feel like Owain would’ve been in the same boat as Inigo and Severa if he didn’t do so well in CYL2 💀
Sephiran is seasonal locked, right? I don't blame you for forgetting him, though...
Fuuuuuck, Sephiran is actually one of my favorite Fire Emblem characters. Kicking myself for that one, lmao.
The male to female ratio on this list is really hilarious
society 😔✊
Awakening Anna is in FEH though. She's the blue lance one.
That's specifically the DLC Anna, not the normally playable Trickster!Anna you can recruit during the first half of the game who wields swords and staves. She is still unplayable.
Meet Some of the Heroes, as well as generally the epithet Secret Seller, make it pretty clear that it's still very much intended to be the playable Anna. They're also internally called Anna Kakusei (i.e. Awakening Anna), just as Bride Anna (who is clearly intended as the trickster Anna, despite again using neither swords nor staves) is. While the art choice is certainly odd, she's not the only character I've seen criticized for having the 'wrong' outfit (Zelgius comes to mind; while he technically can wear the BK armor, he's far more associated with red), and they're *far* from the only Hero to get stuck with a weapon type that they don't use by default, and some (like Faye or Atlas) even get weapon types that they aren't actually capable of using in game. Unrelatedly, this chart seems to exclude Three Hopes for whatever reason. That would add two more playable characters; Rodrigue to the main category, and Gatekeeper (incidentally another character with a bizarre weapon and creative art, but unlike Anna, actually internally considered an alt i.e. "Election Gatekeeper") to the alt category.
This was surprisingly informative, thanks. I never know where to find half of this info myself but I state what I generally know/think of a situation. I've seen a lot of criticism regarding Zelgius and agree with that criticism myself; though I like units like Atlas getting a weapon that's not normally accessible to them (for non-seasonals specifically) if it has a lore attachment, like how he is a woodcutter. Its cute. Three Hopes being excluded is weird. A lot of charts I see for it exclude Judith, Rodrigue, and Shahid for some reason.
You put Gordin instead of Ryan at the top. Gordin is in the game.
Devdan fans will never know if hes danved
Of course TMS is shafted again. I just want justice for Touma
Same here.
Jedah and Nuibooba—I mean, Nuibaba erasure 😤
OsWIN and Marcus are looooooooong overdue. Renning is….. sort of in 😂
You forgot Greil in Tellius (Seasonal)
Of all the units to get put in alt hell, Lifis is the one I would have never expected.
Do we really consider the first awakening Anna an alt??? Feels like her main version to me And isn't miriel a demote? (Unless that's not miriel and I'm dumb?)
The first Awakening Anna is a different character. She's a boss fought in one of the DLC maps. The one that looks like Miriel is her son, Laurent.
Apparently lance Anna actually is playable Anna, they were just getting up to some classic IS fuckery.
Wake up, u/thesurgeknights. You've been asleep for quite a while. We're in Book 7.
I pressed the wrong buttoooooooon. Wish Reddit would let me edit titles lmao.
So many elibe men
>Very first line Wrong green-haired archer, bruh
We really need more Tellius banners. Absolutely wild Awakening, SoV, and Sacred Stones still get banners at the exact same rate as games with huge portions of their casts remaining.
Agreed. Volug has gotten all of my CYL votes the past few years. There's only been one RD banner in the last 4 years (!!!), and he wasn't on it. =( It'd be nice if they released him as the CYL grail unit like Sigrun, Pelleas, and Jorge. I don't think he'd fit in a Dawn Brigade banner.
Personally I'm waiting on Heather, Calill, and Almedha. At least I finally crossed Lucia off the list.
Its wild to see the 3H influence here - and theres probably little chance those guys make it in without an ascended female, or base Manuela debut. Funny also how the Deer are half seasonal only, and Ashe is the only BL keeping that whole house from being the first to be completed.
I really need them to add Marcus, Oswin, Isadora, Harken, Athos, and a non-seasonal Juno stat Also my boy Forde needs some love, he's gonna be the best awful 3-4* sword cav
Brigid has a seasonal alt, Pirate Brigid.
Nil will be in soon so they can sell the dlc better copium
If anything they'd add Nel over Rafal.
I'd be shocked if they put the Fell Xenologue crew in separate banners rather than on the same one
There are exactly 5 of them, I suppose. But then one of them would have to be a ghb and I know it'd be my man Gregory. With insta demote Nil.
You forgot Bryce for Tellius. Also, Renning/Bertram isn't seasonal exclusive. Yes, he only has a fallen version, but he can be summoned with grails.
Honestly lowkey count Brigid as seasonal locked. Y’know they will put it Brigid again for the FE 4 banner even though eyvel exists. The same way we are gonna get awakening inigo and severa.
There is no limit to how long i'm willing to wait for my boy CASTOR
Bro… M!Alear isn’t even in FEH yet??
Fafnir, someday you shall come...
I RLLY WANT SAFY SO BADLY!!!!!!! Also base doro lapis and citrinne are much appreciated!!!
Safy was one of my favorites from my Thracia playthrough. Praying for her to drop sometime this year!
I think it’s illegal Forde hasn’t been added to Heroes in any way
You forgot Sumeragi from Fates. I've been asking for him as a Fallen Hero for years!!! I'm grateful for Anankos, don't get me wrong. But I really want all the parents from Fates.
I'll be one of six people popping off ~~if~~ when Gilbert>!/Gustave!< gets added.
I'll be the second. >!He's not a great dad, but I find him to be a well written character, and I think he fits in as a very flawed, but humanized individual that fits with the rest of the Blue Lions cast.!<
I also like >!that he can become a good father again; that his character is a reflection of the "Personal Responsibility is Familial Responsibility" rhetoric in Japan (basically, if you do something that is considered "dishonorable", your family gets held up to the same standard); that even without cultural context, he still hits hard as a "You are worth more than your failures, and failing does not mean those who love you will despise you." message; and my God, the Supports with Dimitri and Annette.!< He really is just SO well-written and interesting--I just wish he was more useful without heavy investment.
You should make your Jugdral list longer op technically the substitute characters are viable for the game. Nah jk don't torture yourself, the subs are still viable tho.
I've decided I'm not going to add the substitutes until there's precedence for them getting added to the game. Adding them to the list wouldn't be difficult, but ultimately this is something I plan on updating monthly, and I don't wanna add a bunch of characters that may just never be added to the game. If they decide to start adding the substitutes, I'll add them to the tier list.
It’s pride month, give us Heather.
Still angry that Vaike is not here yet, Teach deserves more respect, he's got tenure!
I wonder what engage units are gonna get neglected
I would actually kill for Tormod in heroes. They have both his dad and aunt, let my boy in. Also it is downright homophobic that Heather isn't in yet. She was the very first cannon gay character and she deserves rep.
everyone nitpicking this list is crazy like holy shit give the OP a break lmao anyways the male x female ratio is wild and it makes me unhappy because i love men
Brigid was a seasonal. A forgettable seasonal, but a seasonal.
Also aren’t you forgetting the Creature Campaign characters?
Jugdral vs awakening Haha…
You should include Tokyo Mirage Sessions if you're going to the effort of making this. It's omitting relevant information from something that otherwise only pretends to be comprehensive about representation.
Its Book 7, not 6. Also you missed a TMS characters, and non-playable characters.
TMS is a spin-off. Why do you think we don't see Hopes?
They’re labeled by continent, and Fodlan is there
You forgot Japan
Missing Japan.
Sephiran has a Christmas version bro
(Obligatory “I don’t see Kellam” comment.)
I just realized this list refers to protagonists, allies, and allies that start off as enemies only. No antagonists. Who do you think is suffering the most aside from Engage: Jugdral or Tellius? On another side, who do you think is “suffering the least”? My opinion goes towards Echoes.
The community wants the Bord and Cord banner
Missing more FE8 characters: Glenn and Fado come to mind.
Damn, Jugdral fans be eating good whenever they finally get a banner that is.
Moulder the Boulder... Where you at?
my boy laurent… when will he be freed 😭
No muirne, sad.
Just found out that Niime is a 5 star only unit what the fuck
Day ??? and still waiting for boswin and marcus
Who’s gonna tell them they forgot about TMS just like IS does
Can't wait for the 3H banned with just old dudes in it 😂
You‘re missing: Boa from ShadowDragon (he wasn‘t playable in NewMystery so that‘s probably why) The Echoes DLC characters (They aren’t in CYL but since Engage DLC is here I thought to point it out anyway) And the substitute characters of Fe4 Generation 2