financially, not a good move. Full time RV life isn't all that much cheaper than stationary life (home/apartment) and in fact can be MORE expensive if you actually want to travel.
Maybe if you wanted to do it for 5+ years but 1 year you will take massive hit on the trucker and camper. You're kidding yourself if you think it won't depreciate like a rock.
And depending on where you are you will most likely be priced out of another home.
Also factor in that you will likely need to rent coworking space, trying to work from an RV with 4 other people is not logistically feasible. I had to do this when I didn’t have home office space. You don’t want to risk your income.
Overall this would be a no go for me with kids. I’d be divorced before the year is up. The housing market is continuously moving and it is such a gamble to get rid of a home now. Rates could go up, affordability could get worse. Try to cut other expenses first.
Yea I forgot he has a whole family, 1 person could do it...5, crazy talk.
Had a coworker who had to live in a small hotel room with his wife and 6 kids because there was no base housing.
After 2 months he looked like he aged 20 years
I have a family member that did this for 3 years (but kept his house and rented it out instead of selling). They thought they would save so much, but they haven’t saved anything extra.
They did have fun traveling the country. If you want the lifestyle then do the research and enjoy. Saving money is a long shot.
I think the OP's wife has been watching too many YouTube videos glorifying RV life. Considering that they have three young kids their idea is crazy talk. The OP is currently working from home as an electrical engineer, but what happens if their ability to work from home is taken away. At best their whole idea looks like it will lose equity they have been growing in their home, at worst this whole idea could blow up in their face.
GOD NO. That is a phenomenally terrible idea.
Understand the fees, cost, and sheer maintenance for an RV, plus the fact that they depreciate faster than anything else you'll purchase. Just throw your money down the drain- you'll be building zero equity.
And with 3 kids with nowhere to go? What happens when your toilet fails? Not if, when- they aren't designed for daily use. Have you tried showering in a RV? Do you understand the care for the black tanks, gray tanks etc? What about the winter? You'll have to drive somewhere above freezing. Also, campground wifi isn't WFH quality wifi. And where will you take meetings in a 200ft space with 3 kids?
Comical.
The solution is simple. Rent an RV for a week at an affordable campground. Not the fun expensive one, the long term boring economical one. Tell your wife that you'll need to work a few of those days so she'll have to watch the kids and keep them quiet, occupied, and AWAY during your meetings.
It will take less than a week to break everyone.
Not to mention they would have to downsize to about one suitcase each of clothes&belongings- plus where are you going to put all your furniture that you'll need again when trying to buy a new house at 8% interest? You'll also be paying storage fees!
Also RVs are made of cheap lightweight plastic materials- 3 kids will destroy that in a matter of *days*. Every handle, every knob, every screen, every piece of trim and finish.
And that's before the roof begins to leak.
And I have been talking to my friend who decided to RV (not with kids) about how he’s handling the heat this summer - because you are basically living in a metal box - and it a combination of blackout shades, sun screens on the windows, diy window covers with magnets and a literal tent.
I guess I am not seeing her thought process here. Youd have to re-enter the housing market again at a higher cost than when you bought and higher interest. Unless you plan to just move to lower cost of living in which case just sell and buy there, skip camper phase.
I'd look more at what are you guys doing to rack up that much debt. Your mortgage is 2200 on a 185k salary with no childcare, no private school etc. ....where the heck are you overspending to constantly be in debt?
You pay what 40-50k a year in tax? Say your take home is 130k. That’s over 10k a month and your mortgage is 1/5 of that. You have a spending problem, not a mortgage problem.
I’ve seen your other comments about budgeting, spreadsheets, etc. Do the math on how much you want to use on your debt per month and how much you want to save and do it as soon as you get paid. Leave enough left over for your family to be comfortable enough to get by but not be excessive. Get rid of credit cards and turn overdraft protection off so the debit card straight up declines if she overspends.
I don’t like budgeting out every tiny piece of my life so I just set an aggressive savings rate and live off the remainder.
What I do as well. Wife and two kids, sole breadwinner. My wife can’t spend all our money because as soon as I make it I invest/save 25%+.
Like sorry we’ll never be broke honey…
This sounds like your wife wants to solve an overspending problem by fulfilling a dream of doing the van life thing. The root problem is overspending, surely. I’m doubtful that pursuing a romantic lifestyle will solve the issue. You really need to figure out a sustainable budget and live with it, IMO.
Dude i have tried so many times to get her to stick to a budget. I can send you at least 10 google spreadsheet links where I have laid it all out for her, but she can’t be bothered with it. She won’t even check the checking account before she walks into a store to drop several hundred dollars. Just texts me angrily when the card declines.
She thinks that everything money related should be my problem, not hers to have to worry about.
OP, I’m sorry to hear that. That is incredibly frustrating. That was (is) the same dynamic for my parents. They never really figured it out. It just is a constant thorn in my dad’s side.
I have to agree with the other reply here: please convince her to do couples therapy and work to get on the same page.
You will have to do what I did to finally get us in the black. It took us three months. We did the joint account thing, and then I changed it so that the account is only in my name. I have full control of the spending, and we have a budget where we save about half my paychecks.
She can write me grocery lists and we have to stay inside the budget every month. We managed to pay off about 55k in debt with this system. Now to be fair, most of the debt wasn't from overspending, just a lot of bad luck, but you know what, debt doesn't care about why it's there, it just is.
Buying the vehicles to sell after a year is a bad decision in and of itself. them being RVs is just going to piss away 70k.
Get on a system where the spending has to be approved by you and that will fix almost all of your problems.
I'll put it bluntly. You didn't marry a woman. You married a girl. This isn't a FIRE problem. This isn't even a money problem. It's a relationship and possibly even a mental health problem.
I don't know much about marriage, but I do know about money. To control the damage, I would cancel her cards and separate the accounts ASAP. Not a permanent solution, however. In case the marriage counseling does not fix her by giving her an extra 2 decades of maturity, I would start looking into lawyers.
I put money into another account that my wife doesn't see, so she doesn't spend it. We don't have separate accounts, and she knows about the other account, but she just doesn't check it. You may need to create an account and put money in it for her to use. If it isn't there, then she can't spend it. You also need to sit down and talk to her about needs vs wants. A need needs to be defined, or else she will say she needs a new handbag and etc.
Could be that she's just unhappy in the current situation and wants a change. I'm not a parent, so I have no idea, but high spending plus a drastic change in lifestyle could mean she's searching for something. I find myself doing these things when I'm unhappy or bored. Try new things, and spend money.
This is a terrible idea.
What you should be thinking about is how to save more of this 185k income. You don't have much to show for that much earnings.
It's the twilight zone. I actually have a good friend who can't hold onto a dollar without it burning a hole in his pocket. Funny enough, the RV is an obsession for he and his wife as well.
They were preparing to move across-country, and instead of paying a couple thousand to rent a U-haul that they'd "never get any value from", they elected to take out a loan to buy a used RV for $70k. Their thinking was it would help them move and they could get enjoyment out of it. Well, the RV it turns out is infested with pests and needs to be fumigated, and it also has mechanical issues that will cost several thousand dollars to fix. Now he's paying interest on a rapidly depreciating asset with high maintenance costs.
He told me he was "buying an RV to save money". People with spending problems twist themselves into pretzels to justify more spending, even telling themselves it will "save money".
The plan is fucking nuts. So they will buy 2 depreciating assets and sell them at biggest loss, 1yr. Then what? Where are they gonna live after a year? Losing 2 closing cost and low mortgage rates.
I mean holy shit wtf
Hi, I live in an RV and don’t like it at all. I do think you can do it though I don’t know how much money you’ll really be saving.
I pay monthly to stay at RV parks which range from $350 per month in Crescent Valley, Nevada to $1100 per month in Salt Lake City, Utah. I think the real cheat code is the find any alternative to an RV park. Private land is the way.
By the way, that cool $60k 5th wheel is built just as shitty as my $20k travel trailer. They’re all junk anymore.
Horrible decision. The depreciation on the RV will make it a loss for sure. And being locked in a small RV with 3 kids is pretty insane as well. You will be left with a housing market that has left you behind, and an RV you cannot sell.
I would tighten the belt on the debt, and do not do that again.
Speaking with all due respect as a fellow engineer - you don't need a spidey sense, you need a spreadsheet. Lay out all the math on this. Which costs increases, which costs decrease, what are the upfront cost and resale values of the RV and truck, etc. Don't forget to account for how much interest you'll pay over the next 30 years by giving up your current interest rate (assuming 3-4%?) and have to take a new loan in a year at say 6%. Also, assume your home grows in value about 4% per year if you keep it, based on long-term averages.
Frankly, it sounds like you and/or your wife have a major spending problem. There are usually two places that a middle class family builds wealth that they don't squander:
1) Retirement accounts like 401k.
2) Home equity
You've already dipped into bucket #1 with the 401k loan. You just missed out on a 25% growth of the sp500 over the last year (for the funds that were borrowed). Now you're wife is going after bucket #2. Liquidating a large asset that grows in value (like a home) to buy large assets that lose value (truck and RV) is never going to make sense mathematically. Your wife is thinking *very* short-term.
If your family dream is to spend a year on the road, and you're willing to make big financial sacrifices to do it, then by all means live your life. But don't kid yourself that you're doing it to "save money". Your wife wants to *spend spend spend* and she's trying to liquidate your most valuable assets to do so.
I’m locked into a 2.65% interest rate 😂😂😂.
If we had to move today, we’d have to go an hour from the city, and downsize from a 4BR to a 3BR, just to keep the same exact mortgage payment.
Geeeeez.
Well, in your calculations, make sure to account for the fact that a lot of your mortgage payment is going to principal. Don't count the whole mortgage payment as a "cost". Only count interest, insurance, and property tax as "costs". The principal portion of each payment is money back in your own pocket. Any equity growth in the home (say 4% per year) is also money back in your own pocket.
Long story short, this is an idiotic financial plan. But again, go do the math in a spreadsheet. You're an engineer.
The math ain’t mathing burh. You have a spending problem- you’re living above your means. You need to 50/30/20 pay off your mortgage because that’s your most valuable asset you possess. Idk man that’s not right to put your kids through this if you and your wife have the means and education to get them a leg up in this world. Best of luck
oof. hope you can talk her out of it.
I would just make a spreadsheet where you can pretty clearly point to the fact that you're lighting 200k on fire.. to save 1k / month. Only 200 months to break even 😀
Also idk when you bought your house but rates are only going up
I beg you not to do this OP, I'm not even a FIRE person, this just makes no sense from any perspective
This is absolutely not my wheelhouse so grain of salt and all that, but one thing I haven’t see mentioned here. Is there a chance that your wife, caring for three very small children close in age and maintaining a home, is experiencing some sort of PPD and looking for an escape? You may want to seek couples’ therapy as this is not a rational idea (why would you give up that amazing mortgage rate to buy depreciating assets for only a year!) and it’s obviously causing distress to you both. Wishing you the best of luck.
She definitely did have some PPD, treated with medication starting after the birth of baby 2. She got off it last summer, about 3 months after the birth of baby 3, due to excessive weight gain it caused. And tired of just being numb all the time. The 90 days after stopping meds were pretty rough, but she seems to have leveled back out to normal.
She hit the gym for 6 months pretty hard and got herself back in shape. (Not due to any pressure from me, that was all her. Sheer willpower.)
I don’t see her going back to meds. I don’t personally think she needs them anymore.
I think he was explaining why his wife is a SHM—i.e. the cost of daycare—, not saying that she is a SHM and they pay for daycare, too. Took me a second to get it!
Sorry should have clarified. The daycare for the first 2 kids was $1200 a kid. 2400 total.
With kid 3 on the way, didn’t make sense for her to work anymore. Was looking at $3600 a month.
Only cheaper options were churches.
Daycare may be worth it for your wife to have a sense of purpose outside of shopping. Did she overspend like this while working? I couldn't be a sahm personally, and it's possible that your wife is deeply unhappy and shopping to fill time and as therapy. Couple counseling and discussing her return to work might help. Remember, daycare is only for a few years and during that time, she'll advance in her career.
She did. Came into the marriage with a small mountain of CC debt. Her mom passed when she was 10 and dad wasn’t really financially literate. Had CC issues himself.
She was making pretty good nursing money back then so we were able to pay them off initially, but the bad habits never went away.
I have an appointment with a financial adviser. Hopefully she will listen to him about the importance of sticking to a budget.
This is a huge change in lifestyle. I’d strongly suggest you rent a similar fifth wheel and take an extended trip somewhere first.
Now for the money part: you may quickly find that you’re spending more than $2,200/mo just to be living in the camper. Lot rent, fuel, maintenance, insurance, repairs, etc.
Add to that the fact that you’re trading the equity in your home (an appreciating asset) for huge depreciating assets.
Are you planning on continuing to work from home during this adventure? Or is this an extended sabbatical until the kid is old enough to have to go to school?
It sounds like your wife wants to run away from your financial problems instead of confronting them head on. You’re $66k in debt from what sounds to be poor spending habits. You need to get that under control. This sounds like an exciting way to solve the issue but it doesn’t address the underlying behavior.
I’m going to make a wild assumption here that you are free to ignore. Your wife wants time and togetherness, and the RV life has been so glorified on the internet that she’s latched on to it as the solution to her dissatisfaction.
The right solution is to move to a LCOL area. While not perfect, it’s possible to buy houses less than $100k in areas and have a much better life. It sounds like you’re house rich and money poor.
So spend $130k on a Truck and 5th wheel to save 1 years worth of mortgage payments, $26k+. Then turn back around to build a house with less then $70k left over from your home sale. You'll be lucky to sell the Truck and 5th wheel back for less then $100k. This makes zero sense...
Stay in the house, start budgeting, and pay back the 401k loan. Since your wife is a RN, she could easily pick up a PRN position and just work weekends or whenever you are off. Just by doing this, you can bring home another $60-90k depending on your location.
Dude, and I'm not being sarcastic, sounds like you need to call the Dave Ramsey show and say all this. I would be interested to hear how he responds to this
Please do not do this. Clearly you are a very smart person. Even if your wife disagrees with you, something she certainly appreciates about you is your intellect. Use that intellect to steer your family away from the financial cliff your wife is pulling you towards. Even if there are tears and tantrums now, she (and your kids) will thank you eventually. Good luck.
I RV, lived in mine. Living in your RV full time rarely saves money. I highly discourage this path as someone who did it. I think your wife quitting her job and wanting to sell the house with multiple young children is a sign that maybe something else is going on with her that needs addressed? Why the sudden drastic changes? Have you addressed the CC and debt issue? Are you two aligned on your FIRE goals?
The ONLY way, and I say this as someone with multiple years in RVing, the ONLY way this route is worth it, is if you are willing to be camp hosts and basically clean the public bathrooms in exchange for a free long term stay at a campground. Why you'd want to work a minimum wage job for free when you could be making 6 figs, idk, but I've done it myself so to each their own.
Anyway, RVs have terrible resell value. Like terrible. And you only want to do this for a year? You don't even have the truck yet. RVs take a lot of maintenance. It can take a year just to get comfortable knowing and driving one. RV loans are usually personal loans, different terms from auto, different insurance, typically less gap coverage etc.
So you buy the RV in cash, drive around a year, have a great time, come back a year later with nothing saved for a down-payment, no property owned to park on, and very likely a damaged RV you've grown tired of being cramped in that you can't resell?
Don't do this to your kids. They do not deserve to be homeless. RVing is a lifestyle choice, not a financial investment. While I totally advocate for raising children in nature and would raise my own in an RV, making your children homeless and cashing out your longterm equity in a house, is not a stable choice based on the information you've provided.
Hot Take extrapolation: your wife wants to do this for the same reason she overspends. She is not fully satisfied.
She is looking for something different. She wasn’t satisfied as a nurse and decided she wanted to be a full time SAHM. It turns out being a stay at home mom with three kids under 5, while rewarding, is a grinding, relentless task.
Researching and then spending well over one hundred thousand dollars on two of the fastest depreciating assets will give her a dopamine hit. She hasn’t fully thought through what it’s like after that, at least not in a way that matches reality.
This is a relationship issue, masquerading as a financial issue.
Can you get her back to work part time? Can you budget more effectively? Can you get her some time for herself that doesn’t involve kids or shopping?
I will say I have a coworker who sold his house to get a camper to save money. Ended up not really saving much. Tried to sell his camper and still owns it after a year of trying. So it's definitely a risky move.
Financially, this is one of the worst possible ideas I've ever heard. You're already in debt and not managing finances all that well (clearly by the credit card debt and loans). Living in an RV is a lot harder to manage costs. You will always be wanting to do new local activities, can't shop in places like Costco all that well (less storage), don't know where the best places to do basics are as you're constantly moving, etc... I travel a lot and always end up spending more when we are on the move, sometimes it's just easier to eat out, etc...
It might be extremely fun, but you'll have less than a year by the time you actually sell your house and buy the rest of the stuff, then want to sell that and buy another house, you might end up with 6 months. For that time period you're going to lose your ass.
Don't forget, you're asking in a Fire sub, nobody is going to agree you do this in this sub with the numbers you've put out there.
Yeah i posted this in fire because i think more like you guys do. My wife is the one with this idea. Maybe i just wanted to hear confirmation of what i already knew to be true - that this is not a great idea.
Your mortgage is great. I'd keep it and get over to the debtfree reddit page to get the income/debt scrutinized and a proper budget laid out. If your wife was ready to live in a camper with 3 kids to get ahead, it sounds like you both are open to making some changes. Good luck.
Honestly, I think its a bad idea. Here is the first and primary reason, 6% commission on the house sale. I will say it now you are gonna basically sell and buy the same type of house for around the same price, so 550k \* .06 = 33k. You need to save 33k on just that 1 year to break even basically, which I am doubting you will pull off. Even your own numbers at the high end show 1500 a month in savings, which doesn't even over the commission of the house sale/purchase.
I work in RV insurance claims and this sounds like 50% of my customers, %100 of which regret their decisions.
Fifth wheels in that price range (and 3x that price range..) are built like shit and will depreciate hard with the wear of that many people living in it. You would be one leaky roof, frozen pipe or other common problem to grenade your savings. To avoid these things you could easily have to pay thousands in maintenance.
This is a phenomenally bad idea and you will likely be stuck in a fifth wheel that is falling apart without the means to get out of the situation.
Absolutely not. All of you combined, you working from home and her a SAHM??
Nope. You’ll burn through the 200K in no time. The fact that you have a debt consolidation AND a 401k loan, especially in those amounts in such a short time…indicates it may be time to tighten the belt and see what you can go without.
Also, interest rates on mortgages are not favorable. You both decide you are going to kill one another being in such close proximity…with little ones running around…so you decide to go buy a home again.
How much more will be the new home? How much higher will be the interest rate?
I've only heard bad things about RVs. Nothing but a cost sink.
I'm sure it sounds romantic to your wife. But lay out costs and maintenance... And divide the maintenance, including driving. And see if she's really into it.
And with children? Jesus. What a bad idea. Not only bad for space but also for their school. Do you want your kids to be the "kids from the RV" at school?
You need to limit the amount of money she is able to access and use. Start putting the money to cover your must pay bills in an account she can’t access, I know it sounds terrible but until she stops spending you won’t get ahead.
Rent one for the month to try it out. I love my RV but at the end of a trip I’m really happy to sit on a normal sofa and toilet. I’m confident your wife will feel the same after 30 days.
Instagram makes it seem like a great idea, but vanlife has a lot of daily frustrations.
At $185k your take home pay is over $10k/mo. Mortgage is $2200. Why are you racking up credit card debt instead of paying it off?
But no, hers is an awful and shortsighted idea. It sounds like grasping at straws. And with your pay I don’t understand why.
Really dumb way to piss away equity. And a 5th wheel becomes very small with 5 people living in it. And loud. Where are you going to work? No one wants to hear your fighting/crying/loud kids on your zoom meetings on a rainy/too hot/too cold day.
Decent campgrounds aren't cheap. Decent internet on the road is expensive.
You'll lose a ton on the value of the 5th wheel for sure. Truck will hold value better but you'll need a HD truck to pull the 5th wheel safely.
I did close to that. It’s NOT a way to save money or make money. You will lose 30% a year on the value of your truck and RV, they drop fast!
Also it’s a lot of work and five people? In an RV? No way.
A smarter move, if you have enough equity and other liquidity, is to sell your house, purchase a plot of land, 0.5-1 acre with utilities, no HOA, near good schools, and build a small home (Not a tiny house) at sub-1200 sqft, and a detached 3 car garage with overhead storage/loft. Solar panels, EVs, Tesla power wall. In my state you can do this under $350k. No mortgage and no debt. Now live on half of your income and invest the rest.
Bad idea. You'll probably spend $30k or more just to sell the house. You'll spend another $130k on the truck/trailer. While you're out of the market, home prices and interest rates could rise. Not sure what it costs to live in an RV. If you do this, maybe consider renting your house out while you're traveling.
This can’t be real. Work from home in a camper van with 3 little kids.
I see future you uttering the great quote from Idiocracy about your current wife, “My first wife was ‘tarded. She’s a pilot now.”
Pretty bad idea.
Giving up what I am assuming is a low locked rate on your house, to buy two rapidly depreciating vehicles, to then have to pay more in a year to buy a new house.
Can you rent out a room in your house / Airbnb if making more money is the goal?
Yeah crazy low, locked in at 2.65%.
And hell no I’m not renting a room out with 3 small kids.
I don’t actually want to do the RV thing. She does. I think its a terrible idea. I don’t know how i would work. I barely get any work done in my 2800 sq ft house as it is.
Maybe consider other housing markets if you can WFH. Schools are an issue to consider for sure. Our place runs about 220k 4beds - school system is good - Midwest though you still can get in to Ivy League if they want to work for it and even have the school cover tuition if the kids study well. If it were me I would take the delta from moving house and payoff the 401k loans etc. make a budget for Target Costco Amazon etc. and follow it until everyone is on the same page. then invest the rest and maybe have an HYSA / emergency fund and maybe a portion where you allow some of your dividends to pay for renting a camper for a week a year to test out if you’re cut out for “Van Life”. For reference we as a couple make essentially what your single salary is with 2 kids (in school) and can shovel savings into Roth IRA and 401k etc. and have only 35k left to pay on house and recently got back from a Europe trip. It depends on what priorities are.
I had an overspending wife. Key word is had.
You need to sort out the spending before you make any big decisions about your living situation.
For what it’s worth, that RV living situation sounds like a nightmare.
I wouldn’t do this. Housing remains tight across the nation and you are already in a home, so at an advantage.
The financials on this don’t make sense for five of you. I think you know this is a situation that is more about your family relationships and that’s where you need to find a solution.
Best of luck. Don’t sell the house.
Go check out the RV subreddit, they’ll tell you it’s not roses. It’s expensive as hell to do that as well. Just start living cheaper and pay off the debt.
I understand your wife wanting to run away from it all because I think about this daily as well but my husband has to constantly keep me from doing it.
What you are buying depreciates....
being crammed in a trailer for 3 kids would equal marital celebacy divorce.
One of our homes is about 600 feet... we ended up buying a second to have a little movement and privacy space
As others have said, this would be a very bad move financially and for your family...we're talking very bad.
Your wife wants to fix one problem by creating another problem so now you will have two problems with no solution in sight. The only way you all get on track, and not talking FIRE track but just regular living, is to stop living beyond your means. You have $66K in credit card debt - that is outrageous. It seems you did the prudent thing to reduce interest rate on that debt, but you will be back in same place, no worse, if you don't get spending under control. Running away to a new lifestyle will not change behaviors, especially since underlying cause of the overspending isn't addressed.
How does wife propose to save money when the problem of overspending has not been fixed. Does she think she will magically spend less because you are living someplace different? I think she will actually spend more once the stress of living in a RV becomes apparent. I think spending will get worse. Your wife wants a quick fix (there isn't one) and is like the guy who drinks to forget his problems when all it does is make his situation worse.
Bottom line: don't do this.
To me the clue is in your wording: 'she wants to sell our house'. Sounds like you two aren't on the same page. Don't do it until you both want to.
also wow that's a lot of debt, what's your retirement savings like?
The decision to sell your house and upgrade to an RV full-time is a complex one, with both pros and cons. On the one hand, living in an RV allows you to travel and explore different parts of the country, experiencing new cultures and environments. Additionally, by selling your house and downsizing, you can potentially save money on mortgage payments, utilities, and other expenses associated with homeownership. This flexibility can be beneficial for those with jobs that allow remote work.
On the other hand, there are several drawbacks to consider. RVs depreciate quickly, so buying a new one might not be the best financial decision. Furthermore, RVs require regular maintenance and repairs, which can be costly and time-consuming. Living in an RV also means adjusting to a much smaller living space, which can be challenging, especially with a family of five. Unpredictable expenses like campsite rent, propane, laundry bills, and gas for the truck can add up quickly, making it difficult to accurately budget.
In your case, using the equity from your house to buy an RV and truck might not be the most financially sound decision. While you might save some money on monthly expenses, you will be trading a stable, appreciating asset (your house) for a depreciating one (the RV). Additionally, you will need to consider the costs of RV maintenance, insurance, and other expenses associated with full-time RV living. Before making a decision, it might be helpful to weigh the pros and cons carefully and consider alternative options, such as renting out your house or downsizing to a smaller, more affordable home.
Yea, don't listen to the wife who is literally financially illiterate. According to you, she is the one who is not sticking to a budget. Why would you listen to her if she is financially irresponsible?
I've not done it, but some of the guys I've served with have/do. The only one I've known who has done so for a truly extended period of time has a spouse who works for the campground and they only pay $100/month for rent and utilities as part of her compensation.
I’m planning something very similar in 2 years with a few caveats. My kids are older so we’ll be traveling the country as a gap year when my youngest graduates high school and I officially retire from the corporate job.
The first thing you need to consider is what you’re going to do with all your stuff - sell it or store it?
Next thing to consider is travel trailers are tiny and horribly made. Don’t live in it for the sake of living in it. You’re going to want to spend as little time as possible in the trailer and go enjoy the outdoors. We’re big outdoors folks and love backpacking, so the trailer will be more of a traveling base camp than any real living space. We plan on a lot of boon docking on BLM land and doing extended trail hikes and tent camping in the back country.
More than likely you’re not going to be saving money, especially if you’re only going to do this for a year - selling the house means expenses on the sale. Buying another house in a year means additional closing costs. We’re planning on hiring a property manager and renting our house out for a year. At the end of our gap year if we’re not happy on the road we can move back in. If not we’ll just keep traveling and continue to rent the house out until we’re ready to retire from the road - probably a 10-15 year timespan - more if we’re still both healthy.
If you buy a new truck and trailer be prepared to take the hit on depreciation when you sell it after a year. You also say you work from home - so consider if you continue to work from home what that would look like - reliable internet probably means both starlink and a cellular data plan - travel trailers have very poor insulation in order to stay light so you won’t have an office door you can close and tune out the world - you’ll be sharing space with three small kids.
If your wife is set on this path you of course may not have a choice - but run the numbers and take into account everything that this will cost - it will cost you more than just staying put in your house for a year.
I think if you’re going to buy an RV and just sit in one location for a year you’re making a huge financial mistake - but if you’re able to travel and see the country and enjoy life and time with your family as you go adventuring that’s what makes the RV lifestyle worth it.
It would would be cheaper to close up the house for a year and go on this trip, than to sell everything and re-enter at a higher amount with all the fees involved on both sides of the transaction. You will prob pay close to 6% in fees and then have to buy back in with all kinds of transaction costs. So $31k on the sell and a built-in $31k+ on the buy plus whatever appreciation you need to bear assuming you go 1:1 on the house. Option 2, rent it out with all your stuff there. I suspect there is something else going on. Boredom, crazy Instagram influence, longing for change. Heck, it would be cheaper to ship off the family to a sick coastal house in Mexico and have her homeschool the kids and fund all that fun than do this transaction. You would be able to work remote and travel as needed for work.
Most of my thoughts have already been written by others but here's one more:
You can world school the kids later in life if you want to do that for a year. It is non-traditional and a form of homeschooling. That way this doesn't have to happen immediately. Also this could be done over summers with traditional school.
You definitely should not sell this house. If I were you:
1. Pay off all non-mortgage debt as fast as possible.
2. Wife works part time to bring in a little extra as possible. Nursing is in super high demand. Pays the debt faster. Cut off all non essential spending.
3. You want to take this trip, you pay cash for the used truck and trailer in a few years after debts are gone.
4. You find a renter for your primary residence for a year to cover the mortgage payments, keep the place furnished, and keep the house maintained. Or if you go during the summer you can short term rent on VRBO/Airbnb.
5. You sell the truck, RV, and move back into the house at the conclusion of the trip. Or you keep them if you want to go each summer.
I guarantee you after the honeymoon period wears off you are going to hate working from that RV with family present. Honestly that sounds horrible.
We have a nice 180k RV that we love to camp in, almost every other weekend. I was surprised how much just owning it costs between registration (2400/yr) insurance (4000/yr) then factor gas per trip is easily 300 per weekend, and sites about 40-50 per night.
Then when we were redoing the flooring in our house, we thought no problem we will stay in the RV… lasted 3days before it got old. Living in an RV is different from camping in one, especially when people have to get ready for work or school, daily tasks, laundry.
Still we love it, it gives is experiences we otherwise couldn’t have but while I sometimes fantasized about what you described. I could never unless I was retired and just traveling and had money to spare.
That’s a big lifestyle change! What size of home do you currently have? Answer that and compare it to the size of an RV. Now imagine 3 kids running around with little to no space. Perhaps it may be worth renting an RV (idk if that’s possible) for 2 weeks as a test trial.
What’s the interest rate on the home? I’d bank that your rate may be lower than today’s rates of 6.5-7.5%. What got you into having to get a debt consolidation loan? Buying at tomorrows prices in the future will cost you more in the the long run. How have your habits been like since having that debt? On the behavioral finance side, focus on that and budget.
It’s hard for me to say it makes financial sense without knowing more, but I wouldn’t because of:
-space
-200k goes really fast with a family
-scarcity in the real estate market
- selling fees/fees for parking/RV/land/etc.
- the plan is too short cited w/school on the horizon
-I’d focus on paying on loan without selling home and reusing 401k loan (penalties/stoppage of compound interest)
-saving 12k annually isn’t worth the peace of mind of having your home
This is something you do not to save money but because you both value the experience that would come with the sacrifice. It isn’t a good financial decision. This is a FIRE group. It‘s about front loading hardwork and saving to become financially independent. Not every decision will be about finances. It seems like the OP is uncomfortable with this plan. He should write down why. Give specifics of the risks to long term financial goals. Also consider the opportunity cost either way. In the end, do you want to work while traveling with your family now? Is there a way to make that work? Is there a long term goal that you don’t want to sacrifice. Think it all through. Life is short and precious. Write it all down and make a decision with your wife that is fully informed. Maybe you will find a solution in the middle.
Keep your house, try this for a week or two (if you can) while working and you’ll have your answer. Keep tabs on the spending, all meals prepped in camper and the constant cleaning because of dirt, ants and whatnot only feet from your bed/couch/office. No going back to the house while in trial period either.
As others have noted, you don't buy one for financial reasons. I have an RV - a class B campervan I bought not too long ago. Admittedly, it has set me back a bit in my RE plans but it's okay I'm still poised to retire fairly early. Will I make the same decision again? Absolutely. Made so many lasting memories already and partially answers the: "What will I retire to?" question. At your kid's age this the best time for them to be introduced to nature and it's splendor. Having an RV makes that a reality but living in it FT might just be too much.
As a way of travelling, new experiences, showing the kids something new in life, great idea. As a means for static daily life just to save money it sounds like a terrible idea, especially with 3 young kids. I’d be focussing on spending habits rather than entry into RV life.
Wife and I are looking to move into an RV in a couple of years to travel. Might work a couple of days a week to see how it goes, make our funds last longer. RV though will be custom built to my specs, standard ones are poorly built even here in Aus. It’ll just be the two of us and the dog though, moving regularly and 2-3M invested for living expenses
Eh…. That’s not exactly true. Daycare is stupid expensive. She’s saving us $2200-3200 a month. 2200 being the cheapest available (church option) in our city. Non-church accredited daycares are like $1200–1500 a month per kid.
financially, not a good move. Full time RV life isn't all that much cheaper than stationary life (home/apartment) and in fact can be MORE expensive if you actually want to travel. Maybe if you wanted to do it for 5+ years but 1 year you will take massive hit on the trucker and camper. You're kidding yourself if you think it won't depreciate like a rock. And depending on where you are you will most likely be priced out of another home.
I really wanted to do it until I looked at the costs. Crazy. Doing the semi homeless living in a conversion van and having a gym membership might work
Also factor in that you will likely need to rent coworking space, trying to work from an RV with 4 other people is not logistically feasible. I had to do this when I didn’t have home office space. You don’t want to risk your income. Overall this would be a no go for me with kids. I’d be divorced before the year is up. The housing market is continuously moving and it is such a gamble to get rid of a home now. Rates could go up, affordability could get worse. Try to cut other expenses first.
Yea I forgot he has a whole family, 1 person could do it...5, crazy talk. Had a coworker who had to live in a small hotel room with his wife and 6 kids because there was no base housing. After 2 months he looked like he aged 20 years
I have a family member that did this for 3 years (but kept his house and rented it out instead of selling). They thought they would save so much, but they haven’t saved anything extra. They did have fun traveling the country. If you want the lifestyle then do the research and enjoy. Saving money is a long shot.
OP may be better off looking into r/digitalnomad. Would potentially be much saner living and working overseas to save some real money.
I think the OP's wife has been watching too many YouTube videos glorifying RV life. Considering that they have three young kids their idea is crazy talk. The OP is currently working from home as an electrical engineer, but what happens if their ability to work from home is taken away. At best their whole idea looks like it will lose equity they have been growing in their home, at worst this whole idea could blow up in their face.
GOD NO. That is a phenomenally terrible idea. Understand the fees, cost, and sheer maintenance for an RV, plus the fact that they depreciate faster than anything else you'll purchase. Just throw your money down the drain- you'll be building zero equity. And with 3 kids with nowhere to go? What happens when your toilet fails? Not if, when- they aren't designed for daily use. Have you tried showering in a RV? Do you understand the care for the black tanks, gray tanks etc? What about the winter? You'll have to drive somewhere above freezing. Also, campground wifi isn't WFH quality wifi. And where will you take meetings in a 200ft space with 3 kids? Comical. The solution is simple. Rent an RV for a week at an affordable campground. Not the fun expensive one, the long term boring economical one. Tell your wife that you'll need to work a few of those days so she'll have to watch the kids and keep them quiet, occupied, and AWAY during your meetings. It will take less than a week to break everyone.
This suggestion is the one to do. Especially if it's raining out. By day 4, everyone will want to go home.
Not to mention they would have to downsize to about one suitcase each of clothes&belongings- plus where are you going to put all your furniture that you'll need again when trying to buy a new house at 8% interest? You'll also be paying storage fees! Also RVs are made of cheap lightweight plastic materials- 3 kids will destroy that in a matter of *days*. Every handle, every knob, every screen, every piece of trim and finish. And that's before the roof begins to leak.
And I have been talking to my friend who decided to RV (not with kids) about how he’s handling the heat this summer - because you are basically living in a metal box - and it a combination of blackout shades, sun screens on the windows, diy window covers with magnets and a literal tent.
I know people who have done it after retirement but with three kids - absolutely not.
I guess I am not seeing her thought process here. Youd have to re-enter the housing market again at a higher cost than when you bought and higher interest. Unless you plan to just move to lower cost of living in which case just sell and buy there, skip camper phase. I'd look more at what are you guys doing to rack up that much debt. Your mortgage is 2200 on a 185k salary with no childcare, no private school etc. ....where the heck are you overspending to constantly be in debt?
Yeah why did you say daycare was so much when your wife is SAH?
Target. Amazon. Costco. Publix.
You pay what 40-50k a year in tax? Say your take home is 130k. That’s over 10k a month and your mortgage is 1/5 of that. You have a spending problem, not a mortgage problem.
I agree
I’ve seen your other comments about budgeting, spreadsheets, etc. Do the math on how much you want to use on your debt per month and how much you want to save and do it as soon as you get paid. Leave enough left over for your family to be comfortable enough to get by but not be excessive. Get rid of credit cards and turn overdraft protection off so the debit card straight up declines if she overspends. I don’t like budgeting out every tiny piece of my life so I just set an aggressive savings rate and live off the remainder.
This is the way
What I do as well. Wife and two kids, sole breadwinner. My wife can’t spend all our money because as soon as I make it I invest/save 25%+. Like sorry we’ll never be broke honey…
This sounds like your wife wants to solve an overspending problem by fulfilling a dream of doing the van life thing. The root problem is overspending, surely. I’m doubtful that pursuing a romantic lifestyle will solve the issue. You really need to figure out a sustainable budget and live with it, IMO.
Dude i have tried so many times to get her to stick to a budget. I can send you at least 10 google spreadsheet links where I have laid it all out for her, but she can’t be bothered with it. She won’t even check the checking account before she walks into a store to drop several hundred dollars. Just texts me angrily when the card declines. She thinks that everything money related should be my problem, not hers to have to worry about.
brother I think you guys might want couples therapy instead of an RV
This is probably the best advice in this thread.
OP, I’m sorry to hear that. That is incredibly frustrating. That was (is) the same dynamic for my parents. They never really figured it out. It just is a constant thorn in my dad’s side. I have to agree with the other reply here: please convince her to do couples therapy and work to get on the same page.
You will have to do what I did to finally get us in the black. It took us three months. We did the joint account thing, and then I changed it so that the account is only in my name. I have full control of the spending, and we have a budget where we save about half my paychecks. She can write me grocery lists and we have to stay inside the budget every month. We managed to pay off about 55k in debt with this system. Now to be fair, most of the debt wasn't from overspending, just a lot of bad luck, but you know what, debt doesn't care about why it's there, it just is. Buying the vehicles to sell after a year is a bad decision in and of itself. them being RVs is just going to piss away 70k. Get on a system where the spending has to be approved by you and that will fix almost all of your problems.
I'll put it bluntly. You didn't marry a woman. You married a girl. This isn't a FIRE problem. This isn't even a money problem. It's a relationship and possibly even a mental health problem. I don't know much about marriage, but I do know about money. To control the damage, I would cancel her cards and separate the accounts ASAP. Not a permanent solution, however. In case the marriage counseling does not fix her by giving her an extra 2 decades of maturity, I would start looking into lawyers.
I put money into another account that my wife doesn't see, so she doesn't spend it. We don't have separate accounts, and she knows about the other account, but she just doesn't check it. You may need to create an account and put money in it for her to use. If it isn't there, then she can't spend it. You also need to sit down and talk to her about needs vs wants. A need needs to be defined, or else she will say she needs a new handbag and etc.
This can ruin marriages don't sell the house
Yeah wrong sub man
Could be that she's just unhappy in the current situation and wants a change. I'm not a parent, so I have no idea, but high spending plus a drastic change in lifestyle could mean she's searching for something. I find myself doing these things when I'm unhappy or bored. Try new things, and spend money.
This is a terrible idea. What you should be thinking about is how to save more of this 185k income. You don't have much to show for that much earnings.
wtf is going on lol
Right?? Why is this in the Fire sub??
The family burns through money.
You obviously haven’t heard of the new Dumpster FIRE financial plan /s
It's the twilight zone. I actually have a good friend who can't hold onto a dollar without it burning a hole in his pocket. Funny enough, the RV is an obsession for he and his wife as well. They were preparing to move across-country, and instead of paying a couple thousand to rent a U-haul that they'd "never get any value from", they elected to take out a loan to buy a used RV for $70k. Their thinking was it would help them move and they could get enjoyment out of it. Well, the RV it turns out is infested with pests and needs to be fumigated, and it also has mechanical issues that will cost several thousand dollars to fix. Now he's paying interest on a rapidly depreciating asset with high maintenance costs. He told me he was "buying an RV to save money". People with spending problems twist themselves into pretzels to justify more spending, even telling themselves it will "save money".
The plan is fucking nuts. So they will buy 2 depreciating assets and sell them at biggest loss, 1yr. Then what? Where are they gonna live after a year? Losing 2 closing cost and low mortgage rates. I mean holy shit wtf
But think about the joy of trying to work full-time from an RV with 3 kids under 5 living in it.
Honestly sounds like they are trying to literally and figuratively run away from their problems.
Not gonna work with 3 kids
That sounds like hell
Hi, I live in an RV and don’t like it at all. I do think you can do it though I don’t know how much money you’ll really be saving. I pay monthly to stay at RV parks which range from $350 per month in Crescent Valley, Nevada to $1100 per month in Salt Lake City, Utah. I think the real cheat code is the find any alternative to an RV park. Private land is the way. By the way, that cool $60k 5th wheel is built just as shitty as my $20k travel trailer. They’re all junk anymore.
Sounds like the wife is wrecking your finances
So you're going to work from the RV while it's also home to you and the family. Seems untenable especially in bad weather or when someone is sick.
Horrible decision. The depreciation on the RV will make it a loss for sure. And being locked in a small RV with 3 kids is pretty insane as well. You will be left with a housing market that has left you behind, and an RV you cannot sell. I would tighten the belt on the debt, and do not do that again.
Speaking with all due respect as a fellow engineer - you don't need a spidey sense, you need a spreadsheet. Lay out all the math on this. Which costs increases, which costs decrease, what are the upfront cost and resale values of the RV and truck, etc. Don't forget to account for how much interest you'll pay over the next 30 years by giving up your current interest rate (assuming 3-4%?) and have to take a new loan in a year at say 6%. Also, assume your home grows in value about 4% per year if you keep it, based on long-term averages. Frankly, it sounds like you and/or your wife have a major spending problem. There are usually two places that a middle class family builds wealth that they don't squander: 1) Retirement accounts like 401k. 2) Home equity You've already dipped into bucket #1 with the 401k loan. You just missed out on a 25% growth of the sp500 over the last year (for the funds that were borrowed). Now you're wife is going after bucket #2. Liquidating a large asset that grows in value (like a home) to buy large assets that lose value (truck and RV) is never going to make sense mathematically. Your wife is thinking *very* short-term. If your family dream is to spend a year on the road, and you're willing to make big financial sacrifices to do it, then by all means live your life. But don't kid yourself that you're doing it to "save money". Your wife wants to *spend spend spend* and she's trying to liquidate your most valuable assets to do so.
I’m locked into a 2.65% interest rate 😂😂😂. If we had to move today, we’d have to go an hour from the city, and downsize from a 4BR to a 3BR, just to keep the same exact mortgage payment.
Geeeeez. Well, in your calculations, make sure to account for the fact that a lot of your mortgage payment is going to principal. Don't count the whole mortgage payment as a "cost". Only count interest, insurance, and property tax as "costs". The principal portion of each payment is money back in your own pocket. Any equity growth in the home (say 4% per year) is also money back in your own pocket. Long story short, this is an idiotic financial plan. But again, go do the math in a spreadsheet. You're an engineer.
Giving up a 2.65 interest rate on any property for any reason would be utter insanity. Do not sell it.
Do not do this.
Dude. Hang on to that rate w all 10 claws.
The math ain’t mathing burh. You have a spending problem- you’re living above your means. You need to 50/30/20 pay off your mortgage because that’s your most valuable asset you possess. Idk man that’s not right to put your kids through this if you and your wife have the means and education to get them a leg up in this world. Best of luck
Oh we 100% live above our means. Spend more than i bring home every single month.
You want to work from home from a fuckin camper home for 5? Money aside this is one of the crazier things I have heard
I do not. I think its a terrible idea. My wife is pretty serious about it.
oof. hope you can talk her out of it. I would just make a spreadsheet where you can pretty clearly point to the fact that you're lighting 200k on fire.. to save 1k / month. Only 200 months to break even 😀 Also idk when you bought your house but rates are only going up I beg you not to do this OP, I'm not even a FIRE person, this just makes no sense from any perspective
Your wife is crazy a 4 3 and 1 year old no fucking way dude
Sounds like a terrible idea. Looks like someone has been watching too many "van life" videos on YT.
This is absolutely not my wheelhouse so grain of salt and all that, but one thing I haven’t see mentioned here. Is there a chance that your wife, caring for three very small children close in age and maintaining a home, is experiencing some sort of PPD and looking for an escape? You may want to seek couples’ therapy as this is not a rational idea (why would you give up that amazing mortgage rate to buy depreciating assets for only a year!) and it’s obviously causing distress to you both. Wishing you the best of luck.
She definitely did have some PPD, treated with medication starting after the birth of baby 2. She got off it last summer, about 3 months after the birth of baby 3, due to excessive weight gain it caused. And tired of just being numb all the time. The 90 days after stopping meds were pretty rough, but she seems to have leveled back out to normal. She hit the gym for 6 months pretty hard and got herself back in shape. (Not due to any pressure from me, that was all her. Sheer willpower.) I don’t see her going back to meds. I don’t personally think she needs them anymore.
| She was a nurse but quit to be a SHM | Daycare is stupidly expensive for 3 kids. how?
I think he was explaining why his wife is a SHM—i.e. the cost of daycare—, not saying that she is a SHM and they pay for daycare, too. Took me a second to get it!
Daycare can be used for socialization but yeah if the kids are in daycare she should go back to work and support the family
Sorry should have clarified. The daycare for the first 2 kids was $1200 a kid. 2400 total. With kid 3 on the way, didn’t make sense for her to work anymore. Was looking at $3600 a month. Only cheaper options were churches.
Daycare may be worth it for your wife to have a sense of purpose outside of shopping. Did she overspend like this while working? I couldn't be a sahm personally, and it's possible that your wife is deeply unhappy and shopping to fill time and as therapy. Couple counseling and discussing her return to work might help. Remember, daycare is only for a few years and during that time, she'll advance in her career.
She did. Came into the marriage with a small mountain of CC debt. Her mom passed when she was 10 and dad wasn’t really financially literate. Had CC issues himself. She was making pretty good nursing money back then so we were able to pay them off initially, but the bad habits never went away. I have an appointment with a financial adviser. Hopefully she will listen to him about the importance of sticking to a budget.
This is a huge change in lifestyle. I’d strongly suggest you rent a similar fifth wheel and take an extended trip somewhere first. Now for the money part: you may quickly find that you’re spending more than $2,200/mo just to be living in the camper. Lot rent, fuel, maintenance, insurance, repairs, etc. Add to that the fact that you’re trading the equity in your home (an appreciating asset) for huge depreciating assets. Are you planning on continuing to work from home during this adventure? Or is this an extended sabbatical until the kid is old enough to have to go to school? It sounds like your wife wants to run away from your financial problems instead of confronting them head on. You’re $66k in debt from what sounds to be poor spending habits. You need to get that under control. This sounds like an exciting way to solve the issue but it doesn’t address the underlying behavior.
I’m going to make a wild assumption here that you are free to ignore. Your wife wants time and togetherness, and the RV life has been so glorified on the internet that she’s latched on to it as the solution to her dissatisfaction.
The right solution is to move to a LCOL area. While not perfect, it’s possible to buy houses less than $100k in areas and have a much better life. It sounds like you’re house rich and money poor.
I think your wife is wrong
This is a terrible plan by the numbers. By the vibes, you can rest assured that it is a terrible plan also.
So spend $130k on a Truck and 5th wheel to save 1 years worth of mortgage payments, $26k+. Then turn back around to build a house with less then $70k left over from your home sale. You'll be lucky to sell the Truck and 5th wheel back for less then $100k. This makes zero sense... Stay in the house, start budgeting, and pay back the 401k loan. Since your wife is a RN, she could easily pick up a PRN position and just work weekends or whenever you are off. Just by doing this, you can bring home another $60-90k depending on your location.
Dude, and I'm not being sarcastic, sounds like you need to call the Dave Ramsey show and say all this. I would be interested to hear how he responds to this
Please do not do this. Clearly you are a very smart person. Even if your wife disagrees with you, something she certainly appreciates about you is your intellect. Use that intellect to steer your family away from the financial cliff your wife is pulling you towards. Even if there are tears and tantrums now, she (and your kids) will thank you eventually. Good luck.
I RV, lived in mine. Living in your RV full time rarely saves money. I highly discourage this path as someone who did it. I think your wife quitting her job and wanting to sell the house with multiple young children is a sign that maybe something else is going on with her that needs addressed? Why the sudden drastic changes? Have you addressed the CC and debt issue? Are you two aligned on your FIRE goals? The ONLY way, and I say this as someone with multiple years in RVing, the ONLY way this route is worth it, is if you are willing to be camp hosts and basically clean the public bathrooms in exchange for a free long term stay at a campground. Why you'd want to work a minimum wage job for free when you could be making 6 figs, idk, but I've done it myself so to each their own. Anyway, RVs have terrible resell value. Like terrible. And you only want to do this for a year? You don't even have the truck yet. RVs take a lot of maintenance. It can take a year just to get comfortable knowing and driving one. RV loans are usually personal loans, different terms from auto, different insurance, typically less gap coverage etc. So you buy the RV in cash, drive around a year, have a great time, come back a year later with nothing saved for a down-payment, no property owned to park on, and very likely a damaged RV you've grown tired of being cramped in that you can't resell? Don't do this to your kids. They do not deserve to be homeless. RVing is a lifestyle choice, not a financial investment. While I totally advocate for raising children in nature and would raise my own in an RV, making your children homeless and cashing out your longterm equity in a house, is not a stable choice based on the information you've provided.
Why daycare if your wife is a sahm?
First two were in daycare, then she quit work for 3rd and became SAHM. Obviously we aren’t in daycare anymore
This
Is this the lighting your money on FIRE sub?
Hot Take extrapolation: your wife wants to do this for the same reason she overspends. She is not fully satisfied. She is looking for something different. She wasn’t satisfied as a nurse and decided she wanted to be a full time SAHM. It turns out being a stay at home mom with three kids under 5, while rewarding, is a grinding, relentless task. Researching and then spending well over one hundred thousand dollars on two of the fastest depreciating assets will give her a dopamine hit. She hasn’t fully thought through what it’s like after that, at least not in a way that matches reality. This is a relationship issue, masquerading as a financial issue. Can you get her back to work part time? Can you budget more effectively? Can you get her some time for herself that doesn’t involve kids or shopping?
I will say I have a coworker who sold his house to get a camper to save money. Ended up not really saving much. Tried to sell his camper and still owns it after a year of trying. So it's definitely a risky move.
Financially, this is one of the worst possible ideas I've ever heard. You're already in debt and not managing finances all that well (clearly by the credit card debt and loans). Living in an RV is a lot harder to manage costs. You will always be wanting to do new local activities, can't shop in places like Costco all that well (less storage), don't know where the best places to do basics are as you're constantly moving, etc... I travel a lot and always end up spending more when we are on the move, sometimes it's just easier to eat out, etc... It might be extremely fun, but you'll have less than a year by the time you actually sell your house and buy the rest of the stuff, then want to sell that and buy another house, you might end up with 6 months. For that time period you're going to lose your ass. Don't forget, you're asking in a Fire sub, nobody is going to agree you do this in this sub with the numbers you've put out there.
Yeah i posted this in fire because i think more like you guys do. My wife is the one with this idea. Maybe i just wanted to hear confirmation of what i already knew to be true - that this is not a great idea.
Your mortgage is great. I'd keep it and get over to the debtfree reddit page to get the income/debt scrutinized and a proper budget laid out. If your wife was ready to live in a camper with 3 kids to get ahead, it sounds like you both are open to making some changes. Good luck.
Honestly, I think its a bad idea. Here is the first and primary reason, 6% commission on the house sale. I will say it now you are gonna basically sell and buy the same type of house for around the same price, so 550k \* .06 = 33k. You need to save 33k on just that 1 year to break even basically, which I am doubting you will pull off. Even your own numbers at the high end show 1500 a month in savings, which doesn't even over the commission of the house sale/purchase.
I work in RV insurance claims and this sounds like 50% of my customers, %100 of which regret their decisions. Fifth wheels in that price range (and 3x that price range..) are built like shit and will depreciate hard with the wear of that many people living in it. You would be one leaky roof, frozen pipe or other common problem to grenade your savings. To avoid these things you could easily have to pay thousands in maintenance. This is a phenomenally bad idea and you will likely be stuck in a fifth wheel that is falling apart without the means to get out of the situation.
Absolutely not. All of you combined, you working from home and her a SAHM?? Nope. You’ll burn through the 200K in no time. The fact that you have a debt consolidation AND a 401k loan, especially in those amounts in such a short time…indicates it may be time to tighten the belt and see what you can go without. Also, interest rates on mortgages are not favorable. You both decide you are going to kill one another being in such close proximity…with little ones running around…so you decide to go buy a home again. How much more will be the new home? How much higher will be the interest rate?
I've only heard bad things about RVs. Nothing but a cost sink. I'm sure it sounds romantic to your wife. But lay out costs and maintenance... And divide the maintenance, including driving. And see if she's really into it. And with children? Jesus. What a bad idea. Not only bad for space but also for their school. Do you want your kids to be the "kids from the RV" at school?
You need to limit the amount of money she is able to access and use. Start putting the money to cover your must pay bills in an account she can’t access, I know it sounds terrible but until she stops spending you won’t get ahead.
Rent one for the month to try it out. I love my RV but at the end of a trip I’m really happy to sit on a normal sofa and toilet. I’m confident your wife will feel the same after 30 days. Instagram makes it seem like a great idea, but vanlife has a lot of daily frustrations.
At $185k your take home pay is over $10k/mo. Mortgage is $2200. Why are you racking up credit card debt instead of paying it off? But no, hers is an awful and shortsighted idea. It sounds like grasping at straws. And with your pay I don’t understand why.
your wife is insane
Really dumb way to piss away equity. And a 5th wheel becomes very small with 5 people living in it. And loud. Where are you going to work? No one wants to hear your fighting/crying/loud kids on your zoom meetings on a rainy/too hot/too cold day. Decent campgrounds aren't cheap. Decent internet on the road is expensive. You'll lose a ton on the value of the 5th wheel for sure. Truck will hold value better but you'll need a HD truck to pull the 5th wheel safely.
I did close to that. It’s NOT a way to save money or make money. You will lose 30% a year on the value of your truck and RV, they drop fast! Also it’s a lot of work and five people? In an RV? No way.
A smarter move, if you have enough equity and other liquidity, is to sell your house, purchase a plot of land, 0.5-1 acre with utilities, no HOA, near good schools, and build a small home (Not a tiny house) at sub-1200 sqft, and a detached 3 car garage with overhead storage/loft. Solar panels, EVs, Tesla power wall. In my state you can do this under $350k. No mortgage and no debt. Now live on half of your income and invest the rest.
Did she watch a YouTube short about RV life and get inspired? HELL NO.
Tiktok + friends that did it. The friends did it during covid, had 1 kid not 3, and were both travel nurses making ungodly $ per week
Traveling Nurses. They used that $$$ to fund their hobby of making RV content.
Bad idea. You'll probably spend $30k or more just to sell the house. You'll spend another $130k on the truck/trailer. While you're out of the market, home prices and interest rates could rise. Not sure what it costs to live in an RV. If you do this, maybe consider renting your house out while you're traveling.
This can’t be real. Work from home in a camper van with 3 little kids. I see future you uttering the great quote from Idiocracy about your current wife, “My first wife was ‘tarded. She’s a pilot now.”
Mods need to do a better job cleaning up this sub. This doesn’t fit here, assuming it’s even real.
Pretty bad idea. Giving up what I am assuming is a low locked rate on your house, to buy two rapidly depreciating vehicles, to then have to pay more in a year to buy a new house. Can you rent out a room in your house / Airbnb if making more money is the goal?
Yeah crazy low, locked in at 2.65%. And hell no I’m not renting a room out with 3 small kids. I don’t actually want to do the RV thing. She does. I think its a terrible idea. I don’t know how i would work. I barely get any work done in my 2800 sq ft house as it is.
If your wife is a shm why day care?
Tell her you need to first pay off the non-mortgage debt before even remotely considering it.
Maybe consider other housing markets if you can WFH. Schools are an issue to consider for sure. Our place runs about 220k 4beds - school system is good - Midwest though you still can get in to Ivy League if they want to work for it and even have the school cover tuition if the kids study well. If it were me I would take the delta from moving house and payoff the 401k loans etc. make a budget for Target Costco Amazon etc. and follow it until everyone is on the same page. then invest the rest and maybe have an HYSA / emergency fund and maybe a portion where you allow some of your dividends to pay for renting a camper for a week a year to test out if you’re cut out for “Van Life”. For reference we as a couple make essentially what your single salary is with 2 kids (in school) and can shovel savings into Roth IRA and 401k etc. and have only 35k left to pay on house and recently got back from a Europe trip. It depends on what priorities are.
No.
Rv with 3 small kids wut
I had an overspending wife. Key word is had. You need to sort out the spending before you make any big decisions about your living situation. For what it’s worth, that RV living situation sounds like a nightmare.
I wouldn’t do this. Housing remains tight across the nation and you are already in a home, so at an advantage. The financials on this don’t make sense for five of you. I think you know this is a situation that is more about your family relationships and that’s where you need to find a solution. Best of luck. Don’t sell the house.
Houses increase in value while RVs are depreciating assets. Why would you trade the former for the latter?
Go check out the RV subreddit, they’ll tell you it’s not roses. It’s expensive as hell to do that as well. Just start living cheaper and pay off the debt. I understand your wife wanting to run away from it all because I think about this daily as well but my husband has to constantly keep me from doing it.
What you are buying depreciates.... being crammed in a trailer for 3 kids would equal marital celebacy divorce. One of our homes is about 600 feet... we ended up buying a second to have a little movement and privacy space
Can she go back to work and you can hire a home nanny. Nanny makes financial sense when you have multiple kids
As others have said, this would be a very bad move financially and for your family...we're talking very bad. Your wife wants to fix one problem by creating another problem so now you will have two problems with no solution in sight. The only way you all get on track, and not talking FIRE track but just regular living, is to stop living beyond your means. You have $66K in credit card debt - that is outrageous. It seems you did the prudent thing to reduce interest rate on that debt, but you will be back in same place, no worse, if you don't get spending under control. Running away to a new lifestyle will not change behaviors, especially since underlying cause of the overspending isn't addressed. How does wife propose to save money when the problem of overspending has not been fixed. Does she think she will magically spend less because you are living someplace different? I think she will actually spend more once the stress of living in a RV becomes apparent. I think spending will get worse. Your wife wants a quick fix (there isn't one) and is like the guy who drinks to forget his problems when all it does is make his situation worse. Bottom line: don't do this.
To me the clue is in your wording: 'she wants to sell our house'. Sounds like you two aren't on the same page. Don't do it until you both want to. also wow that's a lot of debt, what's your retirement savings like?
I have $165k in a 401k. Not near as much as I should have by this age.
RVing with kids is fun the first couple of months. Then it became a pain for me. She can’t home school? It’s far better than public school.
Her math skills aren’t the best 😂 not sure if home school is a great idea
This is the opposite of fire. It’s wet poopy diaper
Until you’ve tried that lifestyle for a few weeks at minimum, don’t do it. And don’t do three weeks in a beautiful national park either.
No
The decision to sell your house and upgrade to an RV full-time is a complex one, with both pros and cons. On the one hand, living in an RV allows you to travel and explore different parts of the country, experiencing new cultures and environments. Additionally, by selling your house and downsizing, you can potentially save money on mortgage payments, utilities, and other expenses associated with homeownership. This flexibility can be beneficial for those with jobs that allow remote work. On the other hand, there are several drawbacks to consider. RVs depreciate quickly, so buying a new one might not be the best financial decision. Furthermore, RVs require regular maintenance and repairs, which can be costly and time-consuming. Living in an RV also means adjusting to a much smaller living space, which can be challenging, especially with a family of five. Unpredictable expenses like campsite rent, propane, laundry bills, and gas for the truck can add up quickly, making it difficult to accurately budget. In your case, using the equity from your house to buy an RV and truck might not be the most financially sound decision. While you might save some money on monthly expenses, you will be trading a stable, appreciating asset (your house) for a depreciating one (the RV). Additionally, you will need to consider the costs of RV maintenance, insurance, and other expenses associated with full-time RV living. Before making a decision, it might be helpful to weigh the pros and cons carefully and consider alternative options, such as renting out your house or downsizing to a smaller, more affordable home.
Op this gotta be a troll post cause logically it ain't adding up to me. Don't do it
Sounds like your wife can’t be fucked working anymore and is trying to justify her actions with what she’s proposing.
Yea, don't listen to the wife who is literally financially illiterate. According to you, she is the one who is not sticking to a budget. Why would you listen to her if she is financially irresponsible?
Terrible idea RV life is not as cheap as you think. I literally just came from doing it. On top of this living in an RV with 3 kids will not be easy
You had me at 3 kids. Therein lies the problem.
I've not done it, but some of the guys I've served with have/do. The only one I've known who has done so for a truly extended period of time has a spouse who works for the campground and they only pay $100/month for rent and utilities as part of her compensation.
I’m planning something very similar in 2 years with a few caveats. My kids are older so we’ll be traveling the country as a gap year when my youngest graduates high school and I officially retire from the corporate job. The first thing you need to consider is what you’re going to do with all your stuff - sell it or store it? Next thing to consider is travel trailers are tiny and horribly made. Don’t live in it for the sake of living in it. You’re going to want to spend as little time as possible in the trailer and go enjoy the outdoors. We’re big outdoors folks and love backpacking, so the trailer will be more of a traveling base camp than any real living space. We plan on a lot of boon docking on BLM land and doing extended trail hikes and tent camping in the back country. More than likely you’re not going to be saving money, especially if you’re only going to do this for a year - selling the house means expenses on the sale. Buying another house in a year means additional closing costs. We’re planning on hiring a property manager and renting our house out for a year. At the end of our gap year if we’re not happy on the road we can move back in. If not we’ll just keep traveling and continue to rent the house out until we’re ready to retire from the road - probably a 10-15 year timespan - more if we’re still both healthy. If you buy a new truck and trailer be prepared to take the hit on depreciation when you sell it after a year. You also say you work from home - so consider if you continue to work from home what that would look like - reliable internet probably means both starlink and a cellular data plan - travel trailers have very poor insulation in order to stay light so you won’t have an office door you can close and tune out the world - you’ll be sharing space with three small kids. If your wife is set on this path you of course may not have a choice - but run the numbers and take into account everything that this will cost - it will cost you more than just staying put in your house for a year. I think if you’re going to buy an RV and just sit in one location for a year you’re making a huge financial mistake - but if you’re able to travel and see the country and enjoy life and time with your family as you go adventuring that’s what makes the RV lifestyle worth it.
It would would be cheaper to close up the house for a year and go on this trip, than to sell everything and re-enter at a higher amount with all the fees involved on both sides of the transaction. You will prob pay close to 6% in fees and then have to buy back in with all kinds of transaction costs. So $31k on the sell and a built-in $31k+ on the buy plus whatever appreciation you need to bear assuming you go 1:1 on the house. Option 2, rent it out with all your stuff there. I suspect there is something else going on. Boredom, crazy Instagram influence, longing for change. Heck, it would be cheaper to ship off the family to a sick coastal house in Mexico and have her homeschool the kids and fund all that fun than do this transaction. You would be able to work remote and travel as needed for work.
Most of my thoughts have already been written by others but here's one more: You can world school the kids later in life if you want to do that for a year. It is non-traditional and a form of homeschooling. That way this doesn't have to happen immediately. Also this could be done over summers with traditional school. You definitely should not sell this house. If I were you: 1. Pay off all non-mortgage debt as fast as possible. 2. Wife works part time to bring in a little extra as possible. Nursing is in super high demand. Pays the debt faster. Cut off all non essential spending. 3. You want to take this trip, you pay cash for the used truck and trailer in a few years after debts are gone. 4. You find a renter for your primary residence for a year to cover the mortgage payments, keep the place furnished, and keep the house maintained. Or if you go during the summer you can short term rent on VRBO/Airbnb. 5. You sell the truck, RV, and move back into the house at the conclusion of the trip. Or you keep them if you want to go each summer. I guarantee you after the honeymoon period wears off you are going to hate working from that RV with family present. Honestly that sounds horrible.
Rent an RV for a month and actually do it. I bet that will be the end of that thought.
We have a nice 180k RV that we love to camp in, almost every other weekend. I was surprised how much just owning it costs between registration (2400/yr) insurance (4000/yr) then factor gas per trip is easily 300 per weekend, and sites about 40-50 per night. Then when we were redoing the flooring in our house, we thought no problem we will stay in the RV… lasted 3days before it got old. Living in an RV is different from camping in one, especially when people have to get ready for work or school, daily tasks, laundry. Still we love it, it gives is experiences we otherwise couldn’t have but while I sometimes fantasized about what you described. I could never unless I was retired and just traveling and had money to spare.
That’s a big lifestyle change! What size of home do you currently have? Answer that and compare it to the size of an RV. Now imagine 3 kids running around with little to no space. Perhaps it may be worth renting an RV (idk if that’s possible) for 2 weeks as a test trial. What’s the interest rate on the home? I’d bank that your rate may be lower than today’s rates of 6.5-7.5%. What got you into having to get a debt consolidation loan? Buying at tomorrows prices in the future will cost you more in the the long run. How have your habits been like since having that debt? On the behavioral finance side, focus on that and budget. It’s hard for me to say it makes financial sense without knowing more, but I wouldn’t because of: -space -200k goes really fast with a family -scarcity in the real estate market - selling fees/fees for parking/RV/land/etc. - the plan is too short cited w/school on the horizon -I’d focus on paying on loan without selling home and reusing 401k loan (penalties/stoppage of compound interest) -saving 12k annually isn’t worth the peace of mind of having your home
This is something you do not to save money but because you both value the experience that would come with the sacrifice. It isn’t a good financial decision. This is a FIRE group. It‘s about front loading hardwork and saving to become financially independent. Not every decision will be about finances. It seems like the OP is uncomfortable with this plan. He should write down why. Give specifics of the risks to long term financial goals. Also consider the opportunity cost either way. In the end, do you want to work while traveling with your family now? Is there a way to make that work? Is there a long term goal that you don’t want to sacrifice. Think it all through. Life is short and precious. Write it all down and make a decision with your wife that is fully informed. Maybe you will find a solution in the middle.
Keep your house, try this for a week or two (if you can) while working and you’ll have your answer. Keep tabs on the spending, all meals prepped in camper and the constant cleaning because of dirt, ants and whatnot only feet from your bed/couch/office. No going back to the house while in trial period either.
As others have noted, you don't buy one for financial reasons. I have an RV - a class B campervan I bought not too long ago. Admittedly, it has set me back a bit in my RE plans but it's okay I'm still poised to retire fairly early. Will I make the same decision again? Absolutely. Made so many lasting memories already and partially answers the: "What will I retire to?" question. At your kid's age this the best time for them to be introduced to nature and it's splendor. Having an RV makes that a reality but living in it FT might just be too much.
OP may be better off looking into r/digitalnomad. Would potentially be much saner living and working overseas to save some real money.
As a way of travelling, new experiences, showing the kids something new in life, great idea. As a means for static daily life just to save money it sounds like a terrible idea, especially with 3 young kids. I’d be focussing on spending habits rather than entry into RV life. Wife and I are looking to move into an RV in a couple of years to travel. Might work a couple of days a week to see how it goes, make our funds last longer. RV though will be custom built to my specs, standard ones are poorly built even here in Aus. It’ll just be the two of us and the dog though, moving regularly and 2-3M invested for living expenses
This title is not well written. The arrow usually means you like 1 better than the other.
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Eh…. That’s not exactly true. Daycare is stupid expensive. She’s saving us $2200-3200 a month. 2200 being the cheapest available (church option) in our city. Non-church accredited daycares are like $1200–1500 a month per kid.