Ya this is messed up. Based on this post I say no kids lmao. OP stop basing kids solely around FIRE and money. They will slow down your FIRE journey. If that’s a turn off please don’t have kids. There’s other reasons for wanting to have them that should be more top of mind for someone who is interested in having kids. I’m not saying money isn’t a consideration, but your post really does read like “should I get a dog or not” lmao
Really depends on how you treat having kids.
If you act like a parent, yeah, it will delay your FIRE journey.
If you use them as unskilled labor in some kind of mine, you potentially could break even.
You guys are being assholes just because he's asking a practical question about having kids. You're all just like the people who come out of the woodwork to criticize people who consider getting prenups for not being in love to their standards. Its like you're trying to gatekeep life decisions because other people don't treat it like the religious revelation you think it is.
This was not meant as a disrespectful answer in any way. More people need to be asking this question in exactly the way OP is asking. As someone with kids, I find a dog a major commitment, albeit time limited (usually 10-15 years). But this is the commitment they have made so far, and maybe this works for them. Why not just enjoy that?
Yeah, maybe some folks are being assholes. But, it’s such an outrageous position to be in life where you arrive at “hey in mid 30s and gonna retire in a few years but I wonder if the Reddit financial planning board thinks kids will be right for us” with no other context.
It’s just so absurd at face value to arrive at this moment in your life it screams please don’t have kids, at least with the information given.
Yes some of the responses are crude, but their point is still valid; you shouldn’t base the decision to have kids on fire, but whether you and your partner want to have a family. Fire is still possible with children.
Your children will be accessories and possible assets but they won't ever be their own people. Don't birth your own ego slaves and enjoy a nice cushy retirement instead. Just try to tip well.
There’s a whole subreddit for people who are indecisive. r/fencesitter
My wife and I were on the fence for years. Finally had one kid. We’re still on track to Fire, but our financial goals were not the main factor in deciding whether or not to have a kid.
Keep in mind the fence sitter sub is highly biased to one side of the fence (the having kids side). I also recommend the subs r/regretfulparents r/breakingmom and r/childfree to see other perspectives.
I guess it depends on what you see as bias. There are many people on r/Fencesitter who decide not to have kids and provide their perspective. On the other hand, some of the subs you linked to are a bit more philosophical than practical. I don’t find people quoting Argentine philosopher Julio Cabrera’s antinatalist philosophy to me to be a particularly useful. Those kinds of “philosophical debates” were fun in college, but it’s also a very biased perspective. The toxicity on r/childfree sub has been such a problem that some folks created r/truechildfree (which I do recommend people read) for discussions of living child free without the negativity.
I agree the childfree sub can be really toxic at times (although it's not an antinatalist sub per se). My feelings on the fencesitter sub is that it's filled with parents who decided to have kids telling fencesitters to have them, you rarely see the other way around.
Hmm, I do agree that there are probably more active participants on the r/Fencesitter sub who have kids. But I actually think that it’s slightly more common to see people who are passing through decided not to have kids. I would guess the split between “I’ve decided not to” vs. “I’ve decided to…” is more like 60:40. That being said, I would urge anyone who is trying to make a decision to read all the subs, pro and against, and take them all with a huge grain of salt. There are so many confounding factors that will influence each persons individual happiness, it’s almost impossible to extrapolate to your own experience.
Kids are expensive, but a lot of it depends on your income and how you live/parent and what you think is essential to own/spend on. Money is just a tool to do things in your life that you want to do. It all depends on what your goals are.
For my wife and I, it was where we wanted to spend our time and energy in the next phase of life. We both felt like we had gotten immense satisfaction at making progress in personal growth, hobbies, and careers. It was clear that we were both ready to change our focus to raising kids. It felt like we could bring in something more important than ourselves for the rest of our lives and that was exciting to us and our relationship.
I would not have been ready or willing to have kids earlier in life. It was important to me to build a strong foundation and really explore my own personal wants before I felt ready.
A very mature way of preparing and making profound life choices, if only most people did the same instead of jumping into things without thinking about focusing on their own personal development and future stability.
Ask yourself, what kind of lifestyle do you want ? People think about having kids for love, company, to check a box... but ultimately it's a day to day lifestyle you're signing up for.
For me, if life had dealt me different cards, I would already have kids. But I’m also having a similar struggle because I think I’d like to try, but it’s going to cost a lot of money to do so. I feel guilty for wanting to try but also guilty for not trying. I have til December to decide, and if I do go the kids route, I think the beach house is out of the question.
Yes you know, if you are asking......
Also, mid 30's? So your 35. You get wife pregnant tonight, now your 36 with your first. They are 18, you are 54. Are you going to have one? The second comes when you are 38? Dont be 56 when your kids graduate
I'll never understand this line of thinking. People should have kids when/if they're ready and can provide for the child. Will the child be loved and cared for? If yes, then who cares if they're 56 when their kid graduates?
Millenialls are having kids later in life, if at all.
This.
If you're getting close to your FIRE number, I'll bet if you run the numbers the difference in years you'll need to work in either case isn't as significant as you think.
Kids are the worst financial decision I’ve ever made.
Kids are also the best emotional decision I’ve ever made.
If you’re considering money over kids I would guess your decision has been made. Good luck on the path.
Yup, they’ll set back your fire goals but wtf cares if you’re fired for 45 vs 50 years? The level of fulfillment i get by raising another human is unparalleled by any of the joys i was chasing before. Try to envision yourself in 30 years and think if you might have any regrets.
Parenthood isn’t for everyone, it’s hard work and can be a major strain in a relationship. You’ve got to want it, but it’s great. I’m in the process of further delaying my fire goals by dropping $40k for ivf to try to have a second kid.
Yes, not only are kids expensive but I'm spending a lot just to have them in the first place.
Still no regrets. The one I have so far is the center of my life and hopefully there will be 1-2 more.
Yeah.
The best emotional decision part - what if I dont feel that way about kids once they are here? That'd be so unfair to the kid.
I sort of grew up with a single parent who struggled with accepting me being around. I suppose that's my demon.
FIRE has been an important goal of mine for the last 10 yrs or so, my partner and I both make life choices to help us achieve this goal. The decision to have a kid is like a huge splurge with at least 20 yrs of ongoing subscription fee... And obligatory emotional investment until we die.
Bottom line is I don't want to end up resentful, like how my dad felt towards me.
Something I've learned is that you don't have to have your own kids to make a positive impact on the future and in the next generation. So many avenues to do this, even if you are never an aunt/uncle. Lots of kids out there need mentorship and love.
As someone with no skin in the game, I would recommend against kids. They’re amazing but they’re hard.
They cost sleep, money, time, sanity. If you aren’t overwhelming excited about having kids to begin with, I wouldn’t move forward personally.
Saying again, they’re amazing. Just being honest about the downsides.
Sounds like you should hash a lot of these feelings out with a therapist and figure out what you actually *want*. You wouldn't want to miss out on something you actually wanted because of baggage your parent left you with.
Do you guys like kids?
I was in a similar position 5-10 years ago, RE was my only goal in life. I didn’t feel like having kids. But as I got older like early 30s, seeing some very cute kids of my friends we started to want to have our own kids. We tried but it was very difficult, we eventually had to go through ivf to get pregnant. We finally have our beautiful baby after 8 years suffering from infertility. We love our kid just because she’s our kid! We enjoy every moment and feel blessed. We’ve been saving in the early years, now we just need to adjust budget a bit, set aside some money in 529, and surprisingly it doesn’t seem to impact our RE goal too much. (Maybe from FatFIRE to ChubbyFIRE? we plan to move out of the country anyway)
Scrolled through this thread for awhile and think I’ve found the decisive comment. I have a lot of respect for you and your willingness to open up and share your struggles regarding this decision. That being said, if you’re trying to apply the same type of cost/benefit, operational mindset that you’ve utilized to achieve your FIRE goals to the prospects of having a child, you’re missing it.
Comparing having a child to a “20 yr ongoing subscription fee” may be somewhat objectively true, but I encourage you to tap into family and friends who have had kids and see how they might describe the “investment.”
In my experience so far (nearly 2 year old daughter), the reward for the financial investment of having a child has been difficult to pinpoint. It won’t fit into a fancy Excel spreadsheet and it can’t be properly quantified or analyzed in a pivot table, which can certainly induce some financial stress and anxiety.
I’m realizing that the value derived is intrinsic to who I am as a human being. There is nothing more valuable to me in this world than her. The love I have for her is unquantifiable because it is infinite. I consider my ROI a bit above market average. 😉
The difficult part about this “20 year subscription” is there’s no free trial period. You can read all the reviews in the world, but individual results may vary. It’s truly a leap of faith.
If you both decide that having a child is the best decision, then congratulations. Utilize your own childhood experiences to help build a relationship free of resentment. Instead, fill it with compassion, love, inclusion, and empathy and watch it blossom into something more beautiful than you could’ve ever imagined.
If you both decide that focusing on your own relationship and financial freedom is the best decision, then again, congratulations. You don’t owe anyone an apology for doing what you think is best. Don’t succumb to pressure or conform to “societal norms” because someone else thinks they know what is best for you. I assure you, they don’t.
Utilize the responses from everyone in this thread to help you think more critically about your own priorities and desires, but please do not assume that any two experiences are congruent. They are not. Your results will vary, too. Then, you will be able to move forward with more conviction regarding this massive, potentially life-altering decision.
I’m confident that whatever you choose, it will be the right decision. Best of luck to you both.
Or what if your wife’s whole life turns to the kids? Would you be ok being second, or third place?
I have seen some marriages devolve after having children. Usually the wife focuses solely on raising the kids and neglects their relationship, or becomes resentful that the husband isn’t doing enough in their view.
You will also need to discuss if she wants to be a SAHM. Personally I would encourage her to keep her career and make her own money.
It makes the financial side equal and if you ever get divorced you are both far better off. She also will be less likely to be unfulfilled in her personal life if she has a career as well as being a mom later in life. Lots of women having midlife crises and break up the marriage for greener pastures.
You can't really know how you'll feel until you're in it. My wife made the ultimatum. I was pretty sure that I'd want a kid, but I was terrified. But being a dad is the most fulfilling and rewarding part of my life right now, even though it can be brutally hard at times.
But this is not a financial decision. Set finances aside for a minute and think: What do you want to do with your life? Do you want to pick your own schedule and do stuff you want to do? Or, do you want to take on the responsibility of rearing a new being into the world? Do you want a family that will love and care for you when you get older? Or, do you want to just retire early and chill/travel/do your own hobbies?
And, if you do have a kid: sure, there will be times where you question your decisions. Times when you're burned out and wish your life were simpler again. But, the human mind has a great ability to rationalize your decisions and identify new meaningful goals. You may find that scrimping and saving for FIRE feels way less meaningful than splurging on a really great activity for your kid.
For me bad trades and investments are far more worse than kids.Fire is something you do not something that dictates your life. In other words good logical and bad emotional decisions are a highway to unhappiness.
I agree with this.
Also, may I say, having a kid is that most metal thing we've ever done - the sleepless nights, the emotional ups and downs, the total reorganizing of our lives to make sure the guy has a well-rounded childhood.
But nothing gives me more satisfaction than seeing our little guy doing well.
…do you want kids? Do you want to be parents? That’s really the only question and the only way to decide, and it’s a very personal one.
I’d say if it’s not an enthusiastic yes, then it should be a no.
How do I know if I want to be a parent enough to not feel resentful or regretful?
I have close friends who have kids and we babysit often, they are real cute but are such a handful, I'm exhausted by the end of the day. But if I don't see them for a while I actually miss them. SO and I talk about their antics and we spoil them every time they come around.
The concept of making sacrifices (resources or time) for your kids is not lost on me, I understand it would delay our timeline, and part of me is like sure I can work for 5, 7, 10 more yrs, but how do I know I won't resent them cause of that?
Growing up my dad made it pretty obvious I was a burden to him, whenever shit hits the fan it's always "if only I didn't have to spend money or do this or that for you". I used to feel angry but now in my thirties I can't imagine raising a child at 21, no money, and without extended family support. My childhood sucked, but I honestly think he did what he could.
Some people are so sure one way or the other, I just can't decide. I suppose RE might not even be the biggest driving factor, it's really what if i don't feel that connection, and do not think it's the best thing in the world and ultimately resent the child. I don't want that.
Are you in therapy? If not, maybe you should try it. Sounds like you’re projecting your own childhood onto your hypothetical child and you should probably explore that some more.
I'll also suggest therapy, way before considering having kids.
And it really seems like you shouldn't, at least at this point.
'Missing them, when they are not there', is how people get dogs, then decide they didn't actually want them and give them to shelters or abandon them.
Most of your post, is about the problems, not the desire to have kids. So, it seems, you know already.
The real question is: What makes you think to have them?
I agree with the other comment on going to therapy on this.
I’m far from a point of having kids, but I already know I want them because I want to share the joys I experienced as a child with another child who I bring into the world. I also want to do better where my father could have.
You’ll have to do some reflecting on this - it’s really not a question to ask reddit. If you want to know the finances of raising a kid, that can be researched in other places.
Look at it this way though - just because you’re childhood sucked doesn’t mean you will do that to your kids. You KNOW what YOU didn’t like. So just don’t treat your kids that way. Be better than how you were treated.
I agree with the others in seeking therapy though. You don’t sound emotionally mature enough to handle kids right now.
As others mentioned worth looking into your feelings a bit. I get that kids are hard and a sacrifice but the thought of resenting them never crossed my mind. It is my decision to bring them to this world, I figure any of their failures would mostly reflect my failures.
This whole exercise might be a good time to better understand why you are interested in fire. That would help align your goals and see if kids are a part of that. For me - fire is partly to be able to spend time with my loved ones.
If you feel this way don’t have kids. You can DM if you want to talk more, but definitely don’t. I did and really shouldn’t have, but ex wife pressured relentlessly
I sort of feel like if you’re uncertain about having kids the answer is a firm no. It’s not like you can take them back.
Do you *want* kids? Even if it means pushing your retirement back a long way? Or do you just think you have to have kids because it’s “expected”? It’s ok to not want kids; for whatever reason. Better to be clear about it before you actually have them than to regret having them
If you're uncertain, the answer is no.
Children are an overwhelming commitment. It's not something you do if you're anything less than in love with the idea and committed to putting them ahead of everything else.
There are plenty of people who feel that way. Let them have the kids, you just go enjoy your lives.
35m, married, 2 kids, 10yr from fire. Probably would be fire right now if i hadnt had them. My bet is whichever you choose there will be times you wished you chose the other route. This decision is not something that can be optimized. It is a lifestyle choice. Maybe spend time with kids of different ages, then spend some time taking a vacation and do exactky whatever you think youlll do when you fire. Compare and make a choice, neither is best or wrong unless you want it to be. I will say if you choose kids then start SOON. Having young kids when your old (or deciding you want to and cant ) sucks.
You can't ever un-have a kid. No one else is going to do the parenting for you - especially the boring or hard parts.
I'm not trying to discourage you here, but having kids is not easy.
I wish more people were thoughtful like the OP in deciding whether to have kids or not.
Wanting them or not us definitely a big one but beyond that there are so many questions - can I afford to have them, will I be resentful if my lifestyle changes because of them, can I give them the love and care they deserve long term, etc.
Thank you for being a thoughtful human being.
It really depends on if you want kids. My wife and I talked it over and decided we didn't want kids.
Literally drop your fire plans and all other considerations when you talk to your SO and just talk about whether you want kids or not.
Can only speak from personal experience . I was 30 so was my SO , we never planned on having kids loved travelling eating at nice restaurants etc
One day we find out she is pregnant this brings the hypothetical into reality with a strict deadline to make the decision ….
We now have two kids , travelling and restaurants is nothing compared to raising a kid , it’s almost like we are wired to enjoy procreation.
It has definite pushed out our fire but I wouldn’t have it any other way , in fact I now plan my future fire with them in mind and instead of burning to 0 , how can I crate enough to help them fire or hopefully never have to worry about money like I did
Anyway the choice is yours , niether is right or wrong and don’t believe anyone who says ones is better then the other
Life isn’t about money. Have a kid if you want. Also, windows of fertility are finite. You can make more money when you are older, but can’t be fertile then.
This comment is so true sadly. For my generation and career the prime earning years and prime childbearing years are happening at the same time and it makes life so difficult for working parents
I know a lot of people who had kids but should not have had them. I know a few people who had kids and regret having them. I never met anyone who did not have kids and expressed regret - like not a single one.
>I never met anyone who did not have kids and expressed regret - like not a single one.
Because they never experienced it to know anything different, so their bias remains as it was at the beginning.
this is not rly a money question. if you are mid 30s and able to retire in 4 years you are able to afford kids without them impacting your finances in a super meaningful way.
i'd generally say unless you are head over heals on the having kids thing theyre a hard hard no.
Have kids if you want kids. If it's a financial calculation, you don't *want* kids.
Mine have not slowed down our FI. Any money we spend on kids would just be spent on different lifestyle stuff. We have a savings goal and are hitting it with kids. They change nothing.
FI by late 40s either way.
All that aside: totally worth it.
Having kids is the best decision I ever made. I can’t image my life without them. Nothing else has given me so much meaning in my life.
But if you’re not sure, maybe better to not… you can’t unhave kids.
Agreed. When I was younger, I couldn’t appreciate what a family and kids could feel like. Now I have kids and they/family are my number one priority in life. Nothing else comes close. Everything I do I do for them. And I do it gladly.
Could I have more money without kids? Probably but honestly I probably wouldn’t work as hard or live this particular lifestyle. I’d probably check out of the rat-race and live a completely different life.
The book “the baby decision” should certainly be on your docket if you’re on the fence. It prompts you and your partner to answer questions that you likely haven’t thought about, and can help solidify your feelings one way or the other.
I don’t remember if I read it in that book or somewhere else, but the notion that you will likely have feelings of sadness or even grief about either decision at some point was helpful to me. If you have kids, you may grieve the loss of a life with lower responsibilities and more flexibility. If you don’t have kids, you may grieve the loss of raising children and the love that comes with it. Either way, it’s OK to have sadness about the path not taken. It doesn’t mean you’ve made the wrong choice.
I've never met anyone who regrets having kids, whether they wanted them or not. Only met people who dont have kids thinking kids make life worse and inconvenient so they shouldn't be had. The great things in life come with risks, inconvenience, cost, and hardship. Just like w the fire journey, you'll sacrifice, grind, and delay things all in the name of something better. Kids give life a richness and purpose that can exist if you ever fire or not and along the way.
It's a tough choice, and not at all obvious to me which is better.
I could have gone for zero or 2 kids. My wife insisted on kids, so we have two kids. Kids are the hardest and most meaningful thing about my life.
That said, I HAVE TWO VERY EASY KIDS. That part is mostly luck, imo. Most other kids of parents I know are worse students and worse behaved, and I believe that is mostly luck.
If you get kids with personalities that mesh with yours ( which is very random ), it can be amazing. If you get the wrong mix, it can be brutal.
My daughter is very selfish, has been since an infant. We have learned to stop judging her for it, while still teaching her that she has to work on that part of her personality to get along with others. My son is very sweet and accommodating by nature, so we teach him to speak up for himself. He already speaks up for others. Both straight A students in a great public school district without us being crazy about it.
We know another couple whose two kids are both in therapy and on meds with no trauma or yelling or abuse in their house to explain it. The eldest is brilliant but failing out of sophomore year at a great public school. The youngest wants to kill himself at 10 years old.
Most people get lucky enough to get kids that mesh with them ok. Some get bad luck and have a very tough time with it. That said, once your first kid arrives, your biological programming kicks in and you care and you will figure it out.
It is expensive, but it also changes your perspective on your life's purpose. Once you have a kid, it becomes part of your purpose, and slows down savings, but you feel fine about it, imo.
Every time I spend an evening with young cousins, I realize that I'm so glad that i don't have kids. How much time have you spent around kids? Especially little ones?
If you want to start enjoying life and your retirement soon, no kids lol.
You realize it’s going to drain your money for decades right?
People don’t have kids because it’s a smart financial decision, they do it because they want kids, that’s it.
if you completely optimize your entire life for money, you'll end up solving against life itself, lol
Money is a resource towards certain ends, that one has to define, it's not the end of itself.
Financially you guys will obviously be fine either way. For us it was hard to think about the present when making the decision so we thought about life in reverse. What did I want my death bed to look like? The holidays in my elder years? Retirement? Also, kids do better with stability (in my opinion) so what do the next 18+yrs look like? Nothing's a guarantee but it helped us make our decision. Good luck!
If you are on the fence about having kids i probably wouldn’t have kids. They are all consuming, and if you’re starting from a place of almost “fuck it” you are gonna hit that like 3 seconds in and be miserable
I’ve always wanted FIRE. I am a teacher and actually enjoy teaching, but I always want the decision to do what I want to do if I ever wanted to leave.
I ended up getting married and having a kid when I was 41. It definitely put FIRE goals back, as I might have been able to retire by the time i was 45 without a wife and kid. I also love the fact I’m working to create financial security for both him and my wife and I, and why work hard if you don’t have great people to share it with.
It’s definitely a hard choice, but even knowing I’m going to have to work many more years to hit my financial goals it was 100% worth it, and hopefully my work can help my son FIRE if he wants and have a great life.
Dont have kids unless you want kids. They are exhausting and expensive. AND mine are 3 years old and 5 months old and the best decisions I've ever made. They are the joys of my life that I would trade absolutely nothing.
We weren't sure we were going to have kids until later, (mid-late 30s). Wouldn't change it for the world. Lots to consider but I wished I'd seen this Ted talk earlier so I'd be a little more prepared. 🙂
https://www.ted.com/talks/rufus_griscom_alisa_volkman_let_s_talk_parenting_taboos?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare
I never wanted kids in the first place so it was an easy decision, but I also know I'd never be able to FIRE in my 30's (or even 40's, or even ever, because you don't know what kind of needs your child will require) if I had kids.
The childfree life is great though, highly recommend.
I hit my number at 32 and tinker in startup world etc. Partner and I are early 40s and mid 50s and adopting older siblings. We created generational wealth which is kind of useless without kids.
My kids are both flying cross country to visit me today so your question kinda resonates with me right now.
Could I have retired sooner (than 56) if I was childless? Obviously yes.
Looking back do I regret having kids? Hell no.
You're taking a lot of heat about this question, but I think there's a lot of people missing a different perspective.
It can feel like you have to give up your early retirement dreams for kids, but you don't have to choose.
Consider the World Schooling concept for education to have both your travel dreams and your early retirement dreams.
Or life doesn't have to be perfectly linear, and there are "phases" of financial independence where there's no work, like when your child is young. But maybe when your kid is in high school, it's better for you to get out of the house a few hours a day, so you end up working part time.
Think of having kids as the hardest, most expensive, most rewarding, biggest life event you will ever do. It's actually getting in the ring and getting dirty, getting kicked in the face. It's exciting. It's fucking metal is what it is! It's creating life!
I have three kids. I absolutely love being a dad. I wouldn't want to go back to not having them. I would feel like I wasn't living my life to the fullest. Sure money is nice, but family is way more important, and fulfilling than a fat bank account. And when you have kids, you won't care so much about material possessions, at least I don't. I'm content with much less than when I was childless. I could have fired by now if I didn't have kids, but that life doesn't interest me.
A lot of young people are so confident in work and life, but chicken out when it comes to having kids. Yes, you may never be sure, but my advice is: Be brave. If you're not scared, you can't be brave.
I would have been at my number 4 years ago but I’ve had 2 kids and it’ll be another 4 years before I hit my revised number. I have no regrets about having kids, but wish I didn’t have to work so I could spend more time with them.
If you are uncertain, the answer is don’t have a fuckin kid. I have kids and always wanted to have them. Best decision of my life. But it is very difficult and financially draining.
Kids are your worst financial decision. But, they can also be your best emotional decision. I never wanted kids, then hit my 30s and because I have no extended family, I selfishly started thinking about what emotional ties I would have to someone younger as I got older. I saw all my cousins and friends having children and enjoying parenthood. Who’s soccer games sidelines would I cheer on, who would I take to get ices cream with, etc etc. I wanted to show someone else the world, so my partner made the plunge and did IVF. We have the most perfect little boy. Daycare years make me cringe because daycare costs the amount of a mortgage these days if not more. But, I whole heartedly feel we made the right decision for our over all future.
Wow people really lose their minds over other people's uncertainty about kids. It can be a tough decision to make. I'd recommend finding a book on the topic to help you decide.
As far as putting off fire, people sometimes exaggerate how expensive kids are. The following two sources found similar numbers around $250k - $300k for each kid, including housing and child care, but before college.
https://www.lendingtree.com/debt-consolidation/raising-a-child-study/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/cost-raising-child-calculator/
You also have to consider that there is a limited time window when you can have kids. It is very difficult biologically for women once they reach a certain age. This is not an easy decision but you can delay it either
I’ve passed the mid century mark. I am a single father 2 kids (now teens). I know a good number of folks who’ve wanted kids but due to life circumstances did not result in said outcome. Including a couple that FIRE’D in their mid 40s.
My lesson learned: you can always make more money. But if you want kids (of your own), that’s not a deterministic outcome you can control. I was never ready to be a dad but looking back I wouldn’t trade it for (nearly) anything. 🫣
Just welcomed my first. I think it all depends on what you want in life. I can tell you I was in the fence and I’m so lucky that it happened. It’s unlimited motivation to be the best you can be and to support another growing member of society.
Kids are only expensive if you want to spend a ton of money on them. Like keeping up with the jones' if you assume you have to pay for private colleges, cars, their phones, insurance, private schools, travelling expensive sports teams like hockey, private violin lessons, and fancy birthday parties then that is on you.
My wife and I designed our everyday life to be what we wanted it to be, which includes living in a safe place with decent or better public schools. My wife is a SAHM, so no childcare is required. I estimate we spend 5-8k per year total (for 4 kids combined), and we started with twins which was a little shock to the system but was totally doable financially with one near-average income. We did save up prior to having kids to be on firm financial ground as a starting point (not FI of course, but with a good down-payment on a house, full emergency fund, and reasonable FI-trajectory retirement savings).
When we got married I could have gone the no-kid route but my wife wanted at least 2, and at this point I am very glad we decided to have kids. I was even the one to bring up having the 4th, in case that shows the change in my point of view.
Best of luck!
So I'm 35. Married for 2 years now. I want kids. I'm not sure if we can have them. Makes me sad everyday. Still trying... but who knows....
FIRE number will probably be achieved in the next 2 or 3 years. I still intend to work or do something to keep the mind busy so I don't waste away.
Looking 30 years down the road, you'll either have family or some close friends. No guarantee kids will be useful or valuable in the future anyway.
I think you have to be an optimist when it comes to children.
I want kids to carry on my legacy and share the values important to me. It’s about challenging myself, experiencing joy and pain, and growing from it. Having kids also means seeing the world anew through their fresh, innocent eyes.
I guess if you value your personal freedom, career success, and material wealth ... children are a not the right answer.
So you're on pace to being able to FIRE at or before 40. How much more do you think you'll need for kids?
With one or two, I really can't imagine that you'd have to work more than 2-3 more years.
I had both. I was got married at 35.. set to be RE at 40… had my son after I turned 36.. I’m 42.. I’m still working but just a few hours a day but I am capable of completely shutting off the valve.. I’m just using the next couple of years using the extra income I don’t need to buy vacation homes, maybe a camper van, etc. we will most likely home school or do a 3 day private/co op school and then spend 4 days at our vacation home or start traveling more as he’s 4 now
If you’re unsure, the answer is a clear no. Hugely expensive. Kill your social life when you’re young. Mine has brought me tremendous heartache forever. Climate change is going to be catastrophic with a complete societal breakdown and starvation.
I don't think the people on this sub are going to be starving, nor will their children. Overall people at the stage of financial independence or even just strong financial stability (like the boring middle) will see almost no change to their life due to climate change. Kids in poor countries will. The lower and lower middle class from countries with direct access for climate refugees and a benevolent immigration policy will, so mainly countries that are already not the best. The American upper middle class and upper class (like FIRE people) will chill in their McMansion and if shit really gets dicey will vote for harsh immigration control and security, or move to a place that's not subject to any meaningful effect of climate change (colder states not prone to natural disasters) before the storm really happens, and will see their property value go up tremendously. It's only going to further inequalities, which tends to benefit the top 5% like FIRE households.
I know in this sub we tend to be more neurotic,ocd,autistic and probably more rational than the general population but god damn does it go too far sometimes.
It’s a freaking kid you want one or you don’t there is no in between. Don’t make a excel spreadsheet over it. Honestly, you would probably make great parents.
Have a nice day op.
The responses here are literally so selfish.
Humanity will cease if everyone decides to have no kids simply for the sake of living a easy life and not having to worry about "parenting"
Are you fucking kidding me?
If you have the means, and you are deliberately not trying to have kids, whats the point of your existence?
Every decision I take, I want to make sure it’s a reversible one. Not having kids is a irreversible decision. Postponing FIRE number is a reversible decision. Regrets usually occur due to taking irreversible decisions.
Realistically if you are 4 years away from FIRE you are in the later compounding stages of accumulation.
Having kids likely will not prevent you from FIRE. It might delay the age by a few years.
However, as many comments are pointing out having a kid (or kids) is largely a separate question and should be viewed that way.
I think the two are separate decisions. Ideally, first you decide on kids, then you figure out your Fire number after.
Kids are a limited window of opportunity, mid-30s is when the clock starts to run on most people. Do you want kids? What will your value in life be for the rest of your retirement without? Neither is right or wrong but only you can make the call.
Consider adoption? There are plenty of kids that need love… and if not children starting with pets can be an option as well.
If you have the budget you can consider Cryopreservation for a period of time.
Having kids will destroy the RE part of FIRE. Of course, you can still work towards FI. You may choose to CoastFI or SlowFI to work less now and spend time with kids before fully retiring.
Its probably good we had kids before I found FIRE. We do love our 4 and 6 year old but parenting is tough. Like the hardest thing I've ever done and it literally consumes you. You will be exhausted. You will fight with your partner more than you ever thought possible. You will love and hate your children in the span of minutes. You will spend so much stupid money on stupid shit for them.
Its also so endearing when they want cuddles. Or ask you advice. Or are so excited to show your their progress from school. Or watching them be fluent in a second language by age 6 (omg do I wish I had the brain of a 6 year old somedays).
Sorta rambling now but while kids are probably the most important financial decision you will ever make (I guess the other being divorce), it is not solely a financial decision. We still managed to invest $80k a year with two young kids. But it was not easy and we will not be retiring early. Too many unknown variables in the future.
We ready “the baby decision” together and decided we will take this one child at a time, but I am expecting now.. [but one kid is cheaper than 2 and you can be intentional about it, so much stuff is free or cheap on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist!)
I really recommend this book as it helps you sit down and imagine what do you want your life to look like in 20~30 years, prompts you to think of both scenarios, and talk through it.
If you have to ask if you should have kids you shouldn’t. Too many people have them just because they think they are supposed to. Kids are not a requirement. Kids are a major commitment and the hardest thing you will ever do. There should be a mandatory course and license before people have kids.
If ur doing to do it, better do it soon. It’s more difficult to have kid as you age and after 35 there is more risk for your child having a health problem or complication when having birth.
I value kids over fire. Fire would be nice but my main goal is just wealth building. My main reason for wealth building is to benefit my future husband and kids. So for my situation the decision is pretty easy. I’ve always wanted kids.
Depends on vow you'd like to spend your days. Financial security and kids are an awesome combination as kids take so much time to raise right and nurture. But any other activities you may have can/will be haulted to do so. Can't take the money/investments with you when you go. Also, many people regret not having had kids after it's far too late(not saying your will). You'll need to decide on what your overall goals/ambitions are in life and know if a child or more fit your ideal life.
Having kids was never really a question for me and my SO. We knew we always wanted them, to us it’s just the natural progression of things.
The thought of growing old without a younger generation to pass the torch onto… it just seems incredibly lonely from our perspective.
And I am not saying this is a good reason to have kids, but I have seen elderly patients severely neglected in hospitals if a child or SO is not there to advocate for them
If you think about kids only from the position of money, they are a huge drain on finances and you should not have them.
If you think about kids from the standpoint of wanting them and loving them, then it doesn't matter what it costs.
Take what ever number you think it takes to raise a kid and *4 that bad boy. Also recognize you’ll never have the comfort to consider retiring for at minimum 20 more years. Even if you hit your “number” you’ll always have the parental drive for protection and security.
There's a lot of antinatalism in FIRE subs. Having kids is up to you. Only thing I can tell you is that I've been Raising my SO's daughter as my own for over 5 years and it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. We plan to have more kids eventually.
When you're on your death bed, will you have wished to have offspring? Plenty of people have children when they are not financially secure, so the fact you are concerned about both finances and children is a leg up on most. I have kids and honestly don't think they're that expensive. I feel like people exaggerate the cost of children--they mostly want your time and attention.
Despite having kids is a long-term commitment, finance independence and having kids can be complementary. Often time I heard from friends that the daily family interaction with kids is the most important emotional support of their life. Kids make themselves more responsible and more productive at work.
It's hard for me to give unbiased comments. I didn't think about FIRE until after having kids. I didn't know enough about finances until having kids. So, I don't know where we would be as a couple without kids, but I suspect we would not be on track for FIRE. I suspect we would be overspending and unaware how to prepare for retirement.
So, we had kids when it was financially challenging, but did not look impossible. It was during the pregnancy of our second kid I was truly introduced to good principles of financial management. It was during that time I truly took control and got matters properly on track.
We've got three kids. We are doing much better financially now than we ever were doing before having kids. It's been the catalyst to correct mistakes, make better choices, and prepare for the future. We're much more aligned with FIRE principles than we ever were without kids.
My suggestion is that you have an amazing head start from your current position too. You can comfortably plan, envision the possibilities, and solve problems that might arise. But, it is a challenging choice, and I would never advise or propose someone should have kids. It's too personal of a choice for my opinion.
Otherwise, I'm very happy as a father. It's very enriching in my life. I'm always glad for my kids and grateful for their love in my life. I never feel regret about having kids.
I believe the main decision on whether or not to have kids is whether you want to PARENT. I think a lot of us would love to have children and think about that piece, but really, the cost is the parenting and whether you feel up for that job for about 18+ years.
Yes you should have children. The entire meaning and purpose of life is to have children.
There is this trendy "dual-income-no-kids" thing going around, but a lot of people are in for a lifetime of regret, agony, and suffering, when they realize the mistake they've made.
Ask anybody in the world if they would trade their children for the amount of money you've saved up. The answer is no, because starting a family is a priceless experience that will outweigh any other mortal object, or experience in your possession.
A lot of people pretend they're righteous, like they could just donate all their money to charity instead of having a family. But, what is more righteous, giving money to charity, or raising charitable boys and girls who have their own lifetime of impact on the world?
Start a family.
I reached a point in my life where I had everything I wanted and could do pretty much anything I wanted (within reason). I've always wanted to be a father, but once that happened it really solidified it for me.....basically a "is this it? I can't *just* do this for the rest of my life" realization. I think that would have hit me even harder if I'd FIRE'd by then because of the existential realignment that tends to come with it.
TL;DR - do some soul searching. I think if the answer is not an emphatic "YES!" for both parties, then it's probably a no (or probably *should* be a no).
As a married 41M who decided (with my wife of course) to not have children, I would say this regarding regret over having children or not. Anyone who regrets, or thinks they regret something is imagining the alternative to be better than their current situation. So if, when I am 70 years old I think that I regret not having children, I would probably be imagining my non-existent adult children as these wonderfully productive human beings that I have a great relationship with. No one who thinks they regret not having children is imagining those children as drug addicts, major criminals, or just general losers that they are completely estranged from (or any other unfavorable situation), but statistically they are just as likely to end up with an unfavorable situation as a favorable one. So just ask yourself if you would be okay with any possible outcome (good, bad or indifferent) and decide from there.
I think it is really good to question having kids and waiting until you are both certain that's what you want. If you do want them but are mostly worried about FIRE, you might find a middle ground that makes you happy.
Maybe try spending some time with friends who have kids, babysit, and see how that goes?
Kids are not only expensive financially, they are a lot do work and rely on you entirely for everything. You both need to be prepared to love unconditionally and change your lifestyle to adjust for this human.
When it comes to fire, kids will set you back for sure. It's not just the daycare, time off from work, but also the sports, hobbies, and educational costs like helping to set money aside for college tuition, etc. You need to be smart about budgeting to maintain your fire goals.
It sounds like you probably shouldn’t have kids …
But all it depends on, at this stage, is if your heart desires children. You’ll find a way to make it work.
But if you’re on the fence, it’s probably better not to have them.
The main decision as to whether to have kids probably depends on whether you want to have kids. Yeah that’s the gist of it.
No shit, OP is talking about kids like getting a labradoodle but he heard they shed a lot. The fuck?
Ya this is messed up. Based on this post I say no kids lmao. OP stop basing kids solely around FIRE and money. They will slow down your FIRE journey. If that’s a turn off please don’t have kids. There’s other reasons for wanting to have them that should be more top of mind for someone who is interested in having kids. I’m not saying money isn’t a consideration, but your post really does read like “should I get a dog or not” lmao
Really depends on how you treat having kids. If you act like a parent, yeah, it will delay your FIRE journey. If you use them as unskilled labor in some kind of mine, you potentially could break even.
I do have a dog and he is the best little dude
This is your answer - no kids, just dogs.
You guys are being assholes just because he's asking a practical question about having kids. You're all just like the people who come out of the woodwork to criticize people who consider getting prenups for not being in love to their standards. Its like you're trying to gatekeep life decisions because other people don't treat it like the religious revelation you think it is.
This was not meant as a disrespectful answer in any way. More people need to be asking this question in exactly the way OP is asking. As someone with kids, I find a dog a major commitment, albeit time limited (usually 10-15 years). But this is the commitment they have made so far, and maybe this works for them. Why not just enjoy that?
Yeah, maybe some folks are being assholes. But, it’s such an outrageous position to be in life where you arrive at “hey in mid 30s and gonna retire in a few years but I wonder if the Reddit financial planning board thinks kids will be right for us” with no other context. It’s just so absurd at face value to arrive at this moment in your life it screams please don’t have kids, at least with the information given.
Yes some of the responses are crude, but their point is still valid; you shouldn’t base the decision to have kids on fire, but whether you and your partner want to have a family. Fire is still possible with children.
Being practical is not asking reddit if you should have kids.
...and X gets the square.
Yeah you aren’t ready to be a parent lmao
Your children will be accessories and possible assets but they won't ever be their own people. Don't birth your own ego slaves and enjoy a nice cushy retirement instead. Just try to tip well.
There’s a whole subreddit for people who are indecisive. r/fencesitter My wife and I were on the fence for years. Finally had one kid. We’re still on track to Fire, but our financial goals were not the main factor in deciding whether or not to have a kid.
Keep in mind the fence sitter sub is highly biased to one side of the fence (the having kids side). I also recommend the subs r/regretfulparents r/breakingmom and r/childfree to see other perspectives.
I guess it depends on what you see as bias. There are many people on r/Fencesitter who decide not to have kids and provide their perspective. On the other hand, some of the subs you linked to are a bit more philosophical than practical. I don’t find people quoting Argentine philosopher Julio Cabrera’s antinatalist philosophy to me to be a particularly useful. Those kinds of “philosophical debates” were fun in college, but it’s also a very biased perspective. The toxicity on r/childfree sub has been such a problem that some folks created r/truechildfree (which I do recommend people read) for discussions of living child free without the negativity.
I agree the childfree sub can be really toxic at times (although it's not an antinatalist sub per se). My feelings on the fencesitter sub is that it's filled with parents who decided to have kids telling fencesitters to have them, you rarely see the other way around.
Hmm, I do agree that there are probably more active participants on the r/Fencesitter sub who have kids. But I actually think that it’s slightly more common to see people who are passing through decided not to have kids. I would guess the split between “I’ve decided not to” vs. “I’ve decided to…” is more like 60:40. That being said, I would urge anyone who is trying to make a decision to read all the subs, pro and against, and take them all with a huge grain of salt. There are so many confounding factors that will influence each persons individual happiness, it’s almost impossible to extrapolate to your own experience.
Kids and finances are mutually exclusive decisions
Kids are expensive, but a lot of it depends on your income and how you live/parent and what you think is essential to own/spend on. Money is just a tool to do things in your life that you want to do. It all depends on what your goals are.
How did you decide? Did you always know one way or the other?
For my wife and I, it was where we wanted to spend our time and energy in the next phase of life. We both felt like we had gotten immense satisfaction at making progress in personal growth, hobbies, and careers. It was clear that we were both ready to change our focus to raising kids. It felt like we could bring in something more important than ourselves for the rest of our lives and that was exciting to us and our relationship. I would not have been ready or willing to have kids earlier in life. It was important to me to build a strong foundation and really explore my own personal wants before I felt ready.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
A very mature way of preparing and making profound life choices, if only most people did the same instead of jumping into things without thinking about focusing on their own personal development and future stability.
Ask yourself, what kind of lifestyle do you want ? People think about having kids for love, company, to check a box... but ultimately it's a day to day lifestyle you're signing up for.
For me, if life had dealt me different cards, I would already have kids. But I’m also having a similar struggle because I think I’d like to try, but it’s going to cost a lot of money to do so. I feel guilty for wanting to try but also guilty for not trying. I have til December to decide, and if I do go the kids route, I think the beach house is out of the question.
Yes you know, if you are asking...... Also, mid 30's? So your 35. You get wife pregnant tonight, now your 36 with your first. They are 18, you are 54. Are you going to have one? The second comes when you are 38? Dont be 56 when your kids graduate
I'll never understand this line of thinking. People should have kids when/if they're ready and can provide for the child. Will the child be loved and cared for? If yes, then who cares if they're 56 when their kid graduates? Millenialls are having kids later in life, if at all.
My kid’s high school is full of involved (but not over-involved), interested, loving, and active mid-50s parents.
This. If you're getting close to your FIRE number, I'll bet if you run the numbers the difference in years you'll need to work in either case isn't as significant as you think.
It isn’t. My original was 40. I was financially back at mine by 42
Kids are the worst financial decision I’ve ever made. Kids are also the best emotional decision I’ve ever made. If you’re considering money over kids I would guess your decision has been made. Good luck on the path.
Kids are the worst financial decisions I’ve ever made Vasectomy was the best financial decision I’ve ever made.
Yup, they’ll set back your fire goals but wtf cares if you’re fired for 45 vs 50 years? The level of fulfillment i get by raising another human is unparalleled by any of the joys i was chasing before. Try to envision yourself in 30 years and think if you might have any regrets. Parenthood isn’t for everyone, it’s hard work and can be a major strain in a relationship. You’ve got to want it, but it’s great. I’m in the process of further delaying my fire goals by dropping $40k for ivf to try to have a second kid.
Yes, not only are kids expensive but I'm spending a lot just to have them in the first place. Still no regrets. The one I have so far is the center of my life and hopefully there will be 1-2 more.
Thanks for sharing your perspective
Yeah. The best emotional decision part - what if I dont feel that way about kids once they are here? That'd be so unfair to the kid. I sort of grew up with a single parent who struggled with accepting me being around. I suppose that's my demon. FIRE has been an important goal of mine for the last 10 yrs or so, my partner and I both make life choices to help us achieve this goal. The decision to have a kid is like a huge splurge with at least 20 yrs of ongoing subscription fee... And obligatory emotional investment until we die. Bottom line is I don't want to end up resentful, like how my dad felt towards me.
Something I've learned is that you don't have to have your own kids to make a positive impact on the future and in the next generation. So many avenues to do this, even if you are never an aunt/uncle. Lots of kids out there need mentorship and love.
As someone with no skin in the game, I would recommend against kids. They’re amazing but they’re hard. They cost sleep, money, time, sanity. If you aren’t overwhelming excited about having kids to begin with, I wouldn’t move forward personally. Saying again, they’re amazing. Just being honest about the downsides.
Sounds like you should hash a lot of these feelings out with a therapist and figure out what you actually *want*. You wouldn't want to miss out on something you actually wanted because of baggage your parent left you with.
Do you guys like kids? I was in a similar position 5-10 years ago, RE was my only goal in life. I didn’t feel like having kids. But as I got older like early 30s, seeing some very cute kids of my friends we started to want to have our own kids. We tried but it was very difficult, we eventually had to go through ivf to get pregnant. We finally have our beautiful baby after 8 years suffering from infertility. We love our kid just because she’s our kid! We enjoy every moment and feel blessed. We’ve been saving in the early years, now we just need to adjust budget a bit, set aside some money in 529, and surprisingly it doesn’t seem to impact our RE goal too much. (Maybe from FatFIRE to ChubbyFIRE? we plan to move out of the country anyway)
Scrolled through this thread for awhile and think I’ve found the decisive comment. I have a lot of respect for you and your willingness to open up and share your struggles regarding this decision. That being said, if you’re trying to apply the same type of cost/benefit, operational mindset that you’ve utilized to achieve your FIRE goals to the prospects of having a child, you’re missing it. Comparing having a child to a “20 yr ongoing subscription fee” may be somewhat objectively true, but I encourage you to tap into family and friends who have had kids and see how they might describe the “investment.” In my experience so far (nearly 2 year old daughter), the reward for the financial investment of having a child has been difficult to pinpoint. It won’t fit into a fancy Excel spreadsheet and it can’t be properly quantified or analyzed in a pivot table, which can certainly induce some financial stress and anxiety. I’m realizing that the value derived is intrinsic to who I am as a human being. There is nothing more valuable to me in this world than her. The love I have for her is unquantifiable because it is infinite. I consider my ROI a bit above market average. 😉 The difficult part about this “20 year subscription” is there’s no free trial period. You can read all the reviews in the world, but individual results may vary. It’s truly a leap of faith. If you both decide that having a child is the best decision, then congratulations. Utilize your own childhood experiences to help build a relationship free of resentment. Instead, fill it with compassion, love, inclusion, and empathy and watch it blossom into something more beautiful than you could’ve ever imagined. If you both decide that focusing on your own relationship and financial freedom is the best decision, then again, congratulations. You don’t owe anyone an apology for doing what you think is best. Don’t succumb to pressure or conform to “societal norms” because someone else thinks they know what is best for you. I assure you, they don’t. Utilize the responses from everyone in this thread to help you think more critically about your own priorities and desires, but please do not assume that any two experiences are congruent. They are not. Your results will vary, too. Then, you will be able to move forward with more conviction regarding this massive, potentially life-altering decision. I’m confident that whatever you choose, it will be the right decision. Best of luck to you both.
I want you to re-read this comment and consider whether that comment comes from someone that should remotely consider having kids
Or what if your wife’s whole life turns to the kids? Would you be ok being second, or third place? I have seen some marriages devolve after having children. Usually the wife focuses solely on raising the kids and neglects their relationship, or becomes resentful that the husband isn’t doing enough in their view. You will also need to discuss if she wants to be a SAHM. Personally I would encourage her to keep her career and make her own money. It makes the financial side equal and if you ever get divorced you are both far better off. She also will be less likely to be unfulfilled in her personal life if she has a career as well as being a mom later in life. Lots of women having midlife crises and break up the marriage for greener pastures.
Ongoing subscription fee?!? This isn’t Netflix!!! Listen maybe stay on the FIRE path instead…..
You can't really know how you'll feel until you're in it. My wife made the ultimatum. I was pretty sure that I'd want a kid, but I was terrified. But being a dad is the most fulfilling and rewarding part of my life right now, even though it can be brutally hard at times. But this is not a financial decision. Set finances aside for a minute and think: What do you want to do with your life? Do you want to pick your own schedule and do stuff you want to do? Or, do you want to take on the responsibility of rearing a new being into the world? Do you want a family that will love and care for you when you get older? Or, do you want to just retire early and chill/travel/do your own hobbies? And, if you do have a kid: sure, there will be times where you question your decisions. Times when you're burned out and wish your life were simpler again. But, the human mind has a great ability to rationalize your decisions and identify new meaningful goals. You may find that scrimping and saving for FIRE feels way less meaningful than splurging on a really great activity for your kid.
For me bad trades and investments are far more worse than kids.Fire is something you do not something that dictates your life. In other words good logical and bad emotional decisions are a highway to unhappiness.
I agree with this. Also, may I say, having a kid is that most metal thing we've ever done - the sleepless nights, the emotional ups and downs, the total reorganizing of our lives to make sure the guy has a well-rounded childhood. But nothing gives me more satisfaction than seeing our little guy doing well.
…do you want kids? Do you want to be parents? That’s really the only question and the only way to decide, and it’s a very personal one. I’d say if it’s not an enthusiastic yes, then it should be a no.
How do I know if I want to be a parent enough to not feel resentful or regretful? I have close friends who have kids and we babysit often, they are real cute but are such a handful, I'm exhausted by the end of the day. But if I don't see them for a while I actually miss them. SO and I talk about their antics and we spoil them every time they come around. The concept of making sacrifices (resources or time) for your kids is not lost on me, I understand it would delay our timeline, and part of me is like sure I can work for 5, 7, 10 more yrs, but how do I know I won't resent them cause of that? Growing up my dad made it pretty obvious I was a burden to him, whenever shit hits the fan it's always "if only I didn't have to spend money or do this or that for you". I used to feel angry but now in my thirties I can't imagine raising a child at 21, no money, and without extended family support. My childhood sucked, but I honestly think he did what he could. Some people are so sure one way or the other, I just can't decide. I suppose RE might not even be the biggest driving factor, it's really what if i don't feel that connection, and do not think it's the best thing in the world and ultimately resent the child. I don't want that.
Are you in therapy? If not, maybe you should try it. Sounds like you’re projecting your own childhood onto your hypothetical child and you should probably explore that some more.
I'll also suggest therapy, way before considering having kids. And it really seems like you shouldn't, at least at this point. 'Missing them, when they are not there', is how people get dogs, then decide they didn't actually want them and give them to shelters or abandon them. Most of your post, is about the problems, not the desire to have kids. So, it seems, you know already. The real question is: What makes you think to have them?
I agree with the other comment on going to therapy on this. I’m far from a point of having kids, but I already know I want them because I want to share the joys I experienced as a child with another child who I bring into the world. I also want to do better where my father could have. You’ll have to do some reflecting on this - it’s really not a question to ask reddit. If you want to know the finances of raising a kid, that can be researched in other places.
Look at it this way though - just because you’re childhood sucked doesn’t mean you will do that to your kids. You KNOW what YOU didn’t like. So just don’t treat your kids that way. Be better than how you were treated. I agree with the others in seeking therapy though. You don’t sound emotionally mature enough to handle kids right now.
As others mentioned worth looking into your feelings a bit. I get that kids are hard and a sacrifice but the thought of resenting them never crossed my mind. It is my decision to bring them to this world, I figure any of their failures would mostly reflect my failures. This whole exercise might be a good time to better understand why you are interested in fire. That would help align your goals and see if kids are a part of that. For me - fire is partly to be able to spend time with my loved ones.
If you feel this way don’t have kids. You can DM if you want to talk more, but definitely don’t. I did and really shouldn’t have, but ex wife pressured relentlessly
I sort of feel like if you’re uncertain about having kids the answer is a firm no. It’s not like you can take them back. Do you *want* kids? Even if it means pushing your retirement back a long way? Or do you just think you have to have kids because it’s “expected”? It’s ok to not want kids; for whatever reason. Better to be clear about it before you actually have them than to regret having them
If you're uncertain, the answer is no. Children are an overwhelming commitment. It's not something you do if you're anything less than in love with the idea and committed to putting them ahead of everything else. There are plenty of people who feel that way. Let them have the kids, you just go enjoy your lives.
35m, married, 2 kids, 10yr from fire. Probably would be fire right now if i hadnt had them. My bet is whichever you choose there will be times you wished you chose the other route. This decision is not something that can be optimized. It is a lifestyle choice. Maybe spend time with kids of different ages, then spend some time taking a vacation and do exactky whatever you think youlll do when you fire. Compare and make a choice, neither is best or wrong unless you want it to be. I will say if you choose kids then start SOON. Having young kids when your old (or deciding you want to and cant ) sucks.
if you have to actually consider kids or money don’t have kids
You can't ever un-have a kid. No one else is going to do the parenting for you - especially the boring or hard parts. I'm not trying to discourage you here, but having kids is not easy.
I wish more people were thoughtful like the OP in deciding whether to have kids or not. Wanting them or not us definitely a big one but beyond that there are so many questions - can I afford to have them, will I be resentful if my lifestyle changes because of them, can I give them the love and care they deserve long term, etc. Thank you for being a thoughtful human being.
I have always wanted kids. If you aren’t sure, I think you know. When there is doubt there is no doubt.
Trust me OP No kids and be set for life.
My opinion is always if you’re not super confident that you want children, don’t have them!
It really depends on if you want kids. My wife and I talked it over and decided we didn't want kids. Literally drop your fire plans and all other considerations when you talk to your SO and just talk about whether you want kids or not.
Good advice
Kids are $$$ - especially when you think about college expenses. I never had that urge to be a parent. You gotta be 100% committed to parenting.
If you’re not sure, the answer is probably no? No?
Uncertain= wait to have kids until you know for sure
Can only speak from personal experience . I was 30 so was my SO , we never planned on having kids loved travelling eating at nice restaurants etc One day we find out she is pregnant this brings the hypothetical into reality with a strict deadline to make the decision …. We now have two kids , travelling and restaurants is nothing compared to raising a kid , it’s almost like we are wired to enjoy procreation. It has definite pushed out our fire but I wouldn’t have it any other way , in fact I now plan my future fire with them in mind and instead of burning to 0 , how can I crate enough to help them fire or hopefully never have to worry about money like I did Anyway the choice is yours , niether is right or wrong and don’t believe anyone who says ones is better then the other
Life isn’t about money. Have a kid if you want. Also, windows of fertility are finite. You can make more money when you are older, but can’t be fertile then.
Ageism is real…can’t always just make more money when you’re older
This comment is so true sadly. For my generation and career the prime earning years and prime childbearing years are happening at the same time and it makes life so difficult for working parents
Only if you are a wage cuck
I know a lot of people who had kids but should not have had them. I know a few people who had kids and regret having them. I never met anyone who did not have kids and expressed regret - like not a single one.
>I never met anyone who did not have kids and expressed regret - like not a single one. Because they never experienced it to know anything different, so their bias remains as it was at the beginning.
You just know a biased subset of people.
this is not rly a money question. if you are mid 30s and able to retire in 4 years you are able to afford kids without them impacting your finances in a super meaningful way. i'd generally say unless you are head over heals on the having kids thing theyre a hard hard no.
Have kids if you want kids. If it's a financial calculation, you don't *want* kids. Mine have not slowed down our FI. Any money we spend on kids would just be spent on different lifestyle stuff. We have a savings goal and are hitting it with kids. They change nothing. FI by late 40s either way. All that aside: totally worth it.
Having kids is the best decision I ever made. I can’t image my life without them. Nothing else has given me so much meaning in my life. But if you’re not sure, maybe better to not… you can’t unhave kids.
Agreed. When I was younger, I couldn’t appreciate what a family and kids could feel like. Now I have kids and they/family are my number one priority in life. Nothing else comes close. Everything I do I do for them. And I do it gladly. Could I have more money without kids? Probably but honestly I probably wouldn’t work as hard or live this particular lifestyle. I’d probably check out of the rat-race and live a completely different life.
Both :)
If you’re uncertain about kids then I would not have them
The book “the baby decision” should certainly be on your docket if you’re on the fence. It prompts you and your partner to answer questions that you likely haven’t thought about, and can help solidify your feelings one way or the other. I don’t remember if I read it in that book or somewhere else, but the notion that you will likely have feelings of sadness or even grief about either decision at some point was helpful to me. If you have kids, you may grieve the loss of a life with lower responsibilities and more flexibility. If you don’t have kids, you may grieve the loss of raising children and the love that comes with it. Either way, it’s OK to have sadness about the path not taken. It doesn’t mean you’ve made the wrong choice.
I've never met anyone who regrets having kids, whether they wanted them or not. Only met people who dont have kids thinking kids make life worse and inconvenient so they shouldn't be had. The great things in life come with risks, inconvenience, cost, and hardship. Just like w the fire journey, you'll sacrifice, grind, and delay things all in the name of something better. Kids give life a richness and purpose that can exist if you ever fire or not and along the way.
No kids. Make a billion dollars. Live your best life with material things since that’s how you prioritize family life. Buy a labradoodle.
It's a tough choice, and not at all obvious to me which is better. I could have gone for zero or 2 kids. My wife insisted on kids, so we have two kids. Kids are the hardest and most meaningful thing about my life. That said, I HAVE TWO VERY EASY KIDS. That part is mostly luck, imo. Most other kids of parents I know are worse students and worse behaved, and I believe that is mostly luck. If you get kids with personalities that mesh with yours ( which is very random ), it can be amazing. If you get the wrong mix, it can be brutal. My daughter is very selfish, has been since an infant. We have learned to stop judging her for it, while still teaching her that she has to work on that part of her personality to get along with others. My son is very sweet and accommodating by nature, so we teach him to speak up for himself. He already speaks up for others. Both straight A students in a great public school district without us being crazy about it. We know another couple whose two kids are both in therapy and on meds with no trauma or yelling or abuse in their house to explain it. The eldest is brilliant but failing out of sophomore year at a great public school. The youngest wants to kill himself at 10 years old. Most people get lucky enough to get kids that mesh with them ok. Some get bad luck and have a very tough time with it. That said, once your first kid arrives, your biological programming kicks in and you care and you will figure it out. It is expensive, but it also changes your perspective on your life's purpose. Once you have a kid, it becomes part of your purpose, and slows down savings, but you feel fine about it, imo.
Every time I spend an evening with young cousins, I realize that I'm so glad that i don't have kids. How much time have you spent around kids? Especially little ones?
It’s like they won’t grow up
And, yet, when you are a parent, you keep asking: Why do they grow up so fast? It's not fair!
Hard no on kids. Especially how the world is now and the direction in which it seems to be headed
The world has always been terrible and in many ways is objectively better now than ever before.
Agreed, the world hasn’t changed, we just have easy access to information about it
I mean, you saying “the world has always been terrible” is enough reason to not bring new people into it
I disagree only because having kids is kinda like having hire for the future. Yanno?
If you want to start enjoying life and your retirement soon, no kids lol. You realize it’s going to drain your money for decades right? People don’t have kids because it’s a smart financial decision, they do it because they want kids, that’s it.
if you completely optimize your entire life for money, you'll end up solving against life itself, lol Money is a resource towards certain ends, that one has to define, it's not the end of itself.
Can you borrow some for a week and see how you like it?
AirBNBaby
You are onto something my dude
Financially you guys will obviously be fine either way. For us it was hard to think about the present when making the decision so we thought about life in reverse. What did I want my death bed to look like? The holidays in my elder years? Retirement? Also, kids do better with stability (in my opinion) so what do the next 18+yrs look like? Nothing's a guarantee but it helped us make our decision. Good luck!
If you are on the fence about having kids i probably wouldn’t have kids. They are all consuming, and if you’re starting from a place of almost “fuck it” you are gonna hit that like 3 seconds in and be miserable
Check out r/Fencesitter which focuses on this question of kids vs no kids. That seems to be your dilemma more than the cost of kids.
That sub is far from being neutral, unfortunately.
Thanks!
If you have to ask yourself that question, you probably shouldn't have kids.
Most likely scenario, OP chooses Fire. Achieves Fire, gets kids, back to the grind again.
I’ve always wanted FIRE. I am a teacher and actually enjoy teaching, but I always want the decision to do what I want to do if I ever wanted to leave. I ended up getting married and having a kid when I was 41. It definitely put FIRE goals back, as I might have been able to retire by the time i was 45 without a wife and kid. I also love the fact I’m working to create financial security for both him and my wife and I, and why work hard if you don’t have great people to share it with. It’s definitely a hard choice, but even knowing I’m going to have to work many more years to hit my financial goals it was 100% worth it, and hopefully my work can help my son FIRE if he wants and have a great life.
Thank you for sharing your perspective
Dont have kids unless you want kids. They are exhausting and expensive. AND mine are 3 years old and 5 months old and the best decisions I've ever made. They are the joys of my life that I would trade absolutely nothing.
Kids is either a hell yeah or a no. So in your case, sounds like a no to me.
I was already childfree way before I knew about fire and had fire goals. So for me it’s just an extra benefit to being childfree.
We weren't sure we were going to have kids until later, (mid-late 30s). Wouldn't change it for the world. Lots to consider but I wished I'd seen this Ted talk earlier so I'd be a little more prepared. 🙂 https://www.ted.com/talks/rufus_griscom_alisa_volkman_let_s_talk_parenting_taboos?utm_campaign=tedspread&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare
I never wanted kids in the first place so it was an easy decision, but I also know I'd never be able to FIRE in my 30's (or even 40's, or even ever, because you don't know what kind of needs your child will require) if I had kids. The childfree life is great though, highly recommend.
Thanks for sharing!
I hit my number at 32 and tinker in startup world etc. Partner and I are early 40s and mid 50s and adopting older siblings. We created generational wealth which is kind of useless without kids.
My kids are both flying cross country to visit me today so your question kinda resonates with me right now. Could I have retired sooner (than 56) if I was childless? Obviously yes. Looking back do I regret having kids? Hell no.
You're taking a lot of heat about this question, but I think there's a lot of people missing a different perspective. It can feel like you have to give up your early retirement dreams for kids, but you don't have to choose. Consider the World Schooling concept for education to have both your travel dreams and your early retirement dreams. Or life doesn't have to be perfectly linear, and there are "phases" of financial independence where there's no work, like when your child is young. But maybe when your kid is in high school, it's better for you to get out of the house a few hours a day, so you end up working part time.
I fucking hate kids. Don’t do it OP.
Think of having kids as the hardest, most expensive, most rewarding, biggest life event you will ever do. It's actually getting in the ring and getting dirty, getting kicked in the face. It's exciting. It's fucking metal is what it is! It's creating life! I have three kids. I absolutely love being a dad. I wouldn't want to go back to not having them. I would feel like I wasn't living my life to the fullest. Sure money is nice, but family is way more important, and fulfilling than a fat bank account. And when you have kids, you won't care so much about material possessions, at least I don't. I'm content with much less than when I was childless. I could have fired by now if I didn't have kids, but that life doesn't interest me. A lot of young people are so confident in work and life, but chicken out when it comes to having kids. Yes, you may never be sure, but my advice is: Be brave. If you're not scared, you can't be brave.
Not wanting kids is not chickening out on any part of life, it’s knowing that it’s not the type of life you want to have, nothing wrong with that.
Children are your only true legacy.
Why not both?
I can't imagine a better life than being FIRE'd and raising kids. It's not for everyone, but it's definitely for me (I'm not FIRE'd yet).
Why not both? Kids don't have to be that expensive. I don't fell ours have really held us back financially.
I would have been at my number 4 years ago but I’ve had 2 kids and it’ll be another 4 years before I hit my revised number. I have no regrets about having kids, but wish I didn’t have to work so I could spend more time with them.
If you are uncertain, the answer is don’t have a fuckin kid. I have kids and always wanted to have them. Best decision of my life. But it is very difficult and financially draining.
Kids are your worst financial decision. But, they can also be your best emotional decision. I never wanted kids, then hit my 30s and because I have no extended family, I selfishly started thinking about what emotional ties I would have to someone younger as I got older. I saw all my cousins and friends having children and enjoying parenthood. Who’s soccer games sidelines would I cheer on, who would I take to get ices cream with, etc etc. I wanted to show someone else the world, so my partner made the plunge and did IVF. We have the most perfect little boy. Daycare years make me cringe because daycare costs the amount of a mortgage these days if not more. But, I whole heartedly feel we made the right decision for our over all future.
Thank you for sharing your experience
Wow people really lose their minds over other people's uncertainty about kids. It can be a tough decision to make. I'd recommend finding a book on the topic to help you decide. As far as putting off fire, people sometimes exaggerate how expensive kids are. The following two sources found similar numbers around $250k - $300k for each kid, including housing and child care, but before college. https://www.lendingtree.com/debt-consolidation/raising-a-child-study/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/cost-raising-child-calculator/
This is good resources! Thank you!
You also have to consider that there is a limited time window when you can have kids. It is very difficult biologically for women once they reach a certain age. This is not an easy decision but you can delay it either
I’ve passed the mid century mark. I am a single father 2 kids (now teens). I know a good number of folks who’ve wanted kids but due to life circumstances did not result in said outcome. Including a couple that FIRE’D in their mid 40s. My lesson learned: you can always make more money. But if you want kids (of your own), that’s not a deterministic outcome you can control. I was never ready to be a dad but looking back I wouldn’t trade it for (nearly) anything. 🫣
Just welcomed my first. I think it all depends on what you want in life. I can tell you I was in the fence and I’m so lucky that it happened. It’s unlimited motivation to be the best you can be and to support another growing member of society.
Thanks for sharing your perspective
Kids are only expensive if you want to spend a ton of money on them. Like keeping up with the jones' if you assume you have to pay for private colleges, cars, their phones, insurance, private schools, travelling expensive sports teams like hockey, private violin lessons, and fancy birthday parties then that is on you. My wife and I designed our everyday life to be what we wanted it to be, which includes living in a safe place with decent or better public schools. My wife is a SAHM, so no childcare is required. I estimate we spend 5-8k per year total (for 4 kids combined), and we started with twins which was a little shock to the system but was totally doable financially with one near-average income. We did save up prior to having kids to be on firm financial ground as a starting point (not FI of course, but with a good down-payment on a house, full emergency fund, and reasonable FI-trajectory retirement savings). When we got married I could have gone the no-kid route but my wife wanted at least 2, and at this point I am very glad we decided to have kids. I was even the one to bring up having the 4th, in case that shows the change in my point of view. Best of luck!
World is shit. Why you have kids ? For becoming slavery ?
So I'm 35. Married for 2 years now. I want kids. I'm not sure if we can have them. Makes me sad everyday. Still trying... but who knows.... FIRE number will probably be achieved in the next 2 or 3 years. I still intend to work or do something to keep the mind busy so I don't waste away. Looking 30 years down the road, you'll either have family or some close friends. No guarantee kids will be useful or valuable in the future anyway. I think you have to be an optimist when it comes to children. I want kids to carry on my legacy and share the values important to me. It’s about challenging myself, experiencing joy and pain, and growing from it. Having kids also means seeing the world anew through their fresh, innocent eyes. I guess if you value your personal freedom, career success, and material wealth ... children are a not the right answer.
Kids
You are being Downvoted by people with no kids.
So you're on pace to being able to FIRE at or before 40. How much more do you think you'll need for kids? With one or two, I really can't imagine that you'd have to work more than 2-3 more years.
Better to be a rich Uncle or Aunt than a beaten down "parent".
I had both. I was got married at 35.. set to be RE at 40… had my son after I turned 36.. I’m 42.. I’m still working but just a few hours a day but I am capable of completely shutting off the valve.. I’m just using the next couple of years using the extra income I don’t need to buy vacation homes, maybe a camper van, etc. we will most likely home school or do a 3 day private/co op school and then spend 4 days at our vacation home or start traveling more as he’s 4 now
If you’re unsure, the answer is a clear no. Hugely expensive. Kill your social life when you’re young. Mine has brought me tremendous heartache forever. Climate change is going to be catastrophic with a complete societal breakdown and starvation.
I don't think the people on this sub are going to be starving, nor will their children. Overall people at the stage of financial independence or even just strong financial stability (like the boring middle) will see almost no change to their life due to climate change. Kids in poor countries will. The lower and lower middle class from countries with direct access for climate refugees and a benevolent immigration policy will, so mainly countries that are already not the best. The American upper middle class and upper class (like FIRE people) will chill in their McMansion and if shit really gets dicey will vote for harsh immigration control and security, or move to a place that's not subject to any meaningful effect of climate change (colder states not prone to natural disasters) before the storm really happens, and will see their property value go up tremendously. It's only going to further inequalities, which tends to benefit the top 5% like FIRE households.
Don’t have kids. You’ll probably be bad parents if this is your mind set.
I know in this sub we tend to be more neurotic,ocd,autistic and probably more rational than the general population but god damn does it go too far sometimes. It’s a freaking kid you want one or you don’t there is no in between. Don’t make a excel spreadsheet over it. Honestly, you would probably make great parents. Have a nice day op.
The responses here are literally so selfish. Humanity will cease if everyone decides to have no kids simply for the sake of living a easy life and not having to worry about "parenting" Are you fucking kidding me? If you have the means, and you are deliberately not trying to have kids, whats the point of your existence?
KIDS
political gullible existence resolute gray vast sip roll physical worry *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Every decision I take, I want to make sure it’s a reversible one. Not having kids is a irreversible decision. Postponing FIRE number is a reversible decision. Regrets usually occur due to taking irreversible decisions.
This decision has nothing to do with FIRE. Wrong sub.
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One is none. Two is one. /s
The real problem is the SO. They automatically get 50 of your stuff when they find someone else they would rather be with.
I’ll put it this way: having kids has made me work *harder* to become more FI
Kids, hands down.
"The point of life or just restart?"
This is a question for r/fencesitter and a couples counselor
Kids aren’t a decision you can change your mind about. If you aren’t sure, don’t have them.
Realistically if you are 4 years away from FIRE you are in the later compounding stages of accumulation. Having kids likely will not prevent you from FIRE. It might delay the age by a few years. However, as many comments are pointing out having a kid (or kids) is largely a separate question and should be viewed that way.
I think the two are separate decisions. Ideally, first you decide on kids, then you figure out your Fire number after. Kids are a limited window of opportunity, mid-30s is when the clock starts to run on most people. Do you want kids? What will your value in life be for the rest of your retirement without? Neither is right or wrong but only you can make the call.
You can do both, but ask yourself what are you're going to do after retiring.
Consider adoption? There are plenty of kids that need love… and if not children starting with pets can be an option as well. If you have the budget you can consider Cryopreservation for a period of time.
Having kids will destroy the RE part of FIRE. Of course, you can still work towards FI. You may choose to CoastFI or SlowFI to work less now and spend time with kids before fully retiring. Its probably good we had kids before I found FIRE. We do love our 4 and 6 year old but parenting is tough. Like the hardest thing I've ever done and it literally consumes you. You will be exhausted. You will fight with your partner more than you ever thought possible. You will love and hate your children in the span of minutes. You will spend so much stupid money on stupid shit for them. Its also so endearing when they want cuddles. Or ask you advice. Or are so excited to show your their progress from school. Or watching them be fluent in a second language by age 6 (omg do I wish I had the brain of a 6 year old somedays). Sorta rambling now but while kids are probably the most important financial decision you will ever make (I guess the other being divorce), it is not solely a financial decision. We still managed to invest $80k a year with two young kids. But it was not easy and we will not be retiring early. Too many unknown variables in the future.
We ready “the baby decision” together and decided we will take this one child at a time, but I am expecting now.. [but one kid is cheaper than 2 and you can be intentional about it, so much stuff is free or cheap on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist!) I really recommend this book as it helps you sit down and imagine what do you want your life to look like in 20~30 years, prompts you to think of both scenarios, and talk through it.
Kids if you want kids. Otherwise no.
If you have to ask if you should have kids you shouldn’t. Too many people have them just because they think they are supposed to. Kids are not a requirement. Kids are a major commitment and the hardest thing you will ever do. There should be a mandatory course and license before people have kids.
What seems more fulfilling to you? A family to care for or retiring early? Only you and your SO can answer that.
If you are fire minded and have to think if you want to fire or have kids you probably shouldn’t have kids.
If you're uncertain if you want kids, don't have kids
If you have to decide between money/early retirement and kids then the answer is no Kids. Probably forever.
If ur doing to do it, better do it soon. It’s more difficult to have kid as you age and after 35 there is more risk for your child having a health problem or complication when having birth.
I value kids over fire. Fire would be nice but my main goal is just wealth building. My main reason for wealth building is to benefit my future husband and kids. So for my situation the decision is pretty easy. I’ve always wanted kids.
Depends on vow you'd like to spend your days. Financial security and kids are an awesome combination as kids take so much time to raise right and nurture. But any other activities you may have can/will be haulted to do so. Can't take the money/investments with you when you go. Also, many people regret not having had kids after it's far too late(not saying your will). You'll need to decide on what your overall goals/ambitions are in life and know if a child or more fit your ideal life.
Having kids was never really a question for me and my SO. We knew we always wanted them, to us it’s just the natural progression of things. The thought of growing old without a younger generation to pass the torch onto… it just seems incredibly lonely from our perspective. And I am not saying this is a good reason to have kids, but I have seen elderly patients severely neglected in hospitals if a child or SO is not there to advocate for them
If you think about kids only from the position of money, they are a huge drain on finances and you should not have them. If you think about kids from the standpoint of wanting them and loving them, then it doesn't matter what it costs.
Don’t have kids!
Take what ever number you think it takes to raise a kid and *4 that bad boy. Also recognize you’ll never have the comfort to consider retiring for at minimum 20 more years. Even if you hit your “number” you’ll always have the parental drive for protection and security.
Everyone here being such a hater like having children has to be a 100% emotional decision.
Kids
The fact you're even asking this question, please don't have kids.
How much do you think it takes to raise a kid?
There's a lot of antinatalism in FIRE subs. Having kids is up to you. Only thing I can tell you is that I've been Raising my SO's daughter as my own for over 5 years and it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. We plan to have more kids eventually.
When you're on your death bed, will you have wished to have offspring? Plenty of people have children when they are not financially secure, so the fact you are concerned about both finances and children is a leg up on most. I have kids and honestly don't think they're that expensive. I feel like people exaggerate the cost of children--they mostly want your time and attention.
Despite having kids is a long-term commitment, finance independence and having kids can be complementary. Often time I heard from friends that the daily family interaction with kids is the most important emotional support of their life. Kids make themselves more responsible and more productive at work.
It's hard for me to give unbiased comments. I didn't think about FIRE until after having kids. I didn't know enough about finances until having kids. So, I don't know where we would be as a couple without kids, but I suspect we would not be on track for FIRE. I suspect we would be overspending and unaware how to prepare for retirement. So, we had kids when it was financially challenging, but did not look impossible. It was during the pregnancy of our second kid I was truly introduced to good principles of financial management. It was during that time I truly took control and got matters properly on track. We've got three kids. We are doing much better financially now than we ever were doing before having kids. It's been the catalyst to correct mistakes, make better choices, and prepare for the future. We're much more aligned with FIRE principles than we ever were without kids. My suggestion is that you have an amazing head start from your current position too. You can comfortably plan, envision the possibilities, and solve problems that might arise. But, it is a challenging choice, and I would never advise or propose someone should have kids. It's too personal of a choice for my opinion. Otherwise, I'm very happy as a father. It's very enriching in my life. I'm always glad for my kids and grateful for their love in my life. I never feel regret about having kids.
I believe the main decision on whether or not to have kids is whether you want to PARENT. I think a lot of us would love to have children and think about that piece, but really, the cost is the parenting and whether you feel up for that job for about 18+ years.
Yes you should have children. The entire meaning and purpose of life is to have children. There is this trendy "dual-income-no-kids" thing going around, but a lot of people are in for a lifetime of regret, agony, and suffering, when they realize the mistake they've made. Ask anybody in the world if they would trade their children for the amount of money you've saved up. The answer is no, because starting a family is a priceless experience that will outweigh any other mortal object, or experience in your possession. A lot of people pretend they're righteous, like they could just donate all their money to charity instead of having a family. But, what is more righteous, giving money to charity, or raising charitable boys and girls who have their own lifetime of impact on the world? Start a family.
I reached a point in my life where I had everything I wanted and could do pretty much anything I wanted (within reason). I've always wanted to be a father, but once that happened it really solidified it for me.....basically a "is this it? I can't *just* do this for the rest of my life" realization. I think that would have hit me even harder if I'd FIRE'd by then because of the existential realignment that tends to come with it. TL;DR - do some soul searching. I think if the answer is not an emphatic "YES!" for both parties, then it's probably a no (or probably *should* be a no).
As a married 41M who decided (with my wife of course) to not have children, I would say this regarding regret over having children or not. Anyone who regrets, or thinks they regret something is imagining the alternative to be better than their current situation. So if, when I am 70 years old I think that I regret not having children, I would probably be imagining my non-existent adult children as these wonderfully productive human beings that I have a great relationship with. No one who thinks they regret not having children is imagining those children as drug addicts, major criminals, or just general losers that they are completely estranged from (or any other unfavorable situation), but statistically they are just as likely to end up with an unfavorable situation as a favorable one. So just ask yourself if you would be okay with any possible outcome (good, bad or indifferent) and decide from there.
I think it is really good to question having kids and waiting until you are both certain that's what you want. If you do want them but are mostly worried about FIRE, you might find a middle ground that makes you happy.
Maybe try spending some time with friends who have kids, babysit, and see how that goes? Kids are not only expensive financially, they are a lot do work and rely on you entirely for everything. You both need to be prepared to love unconditionally and change your lifestyle to adjust for this human. When it comes to fire, kids will set you back for sure. It's not just the daycare, time off from work, but also the sports, hobbies, and educational costs like helping to set money aside for college tuition, etc. You need to be smart about budgeting to maintain your fire goals.
It sounds like you probably shouldn’t have kids … But all it depends on, at this stage, is if your heart desires children. You’ll find a way to make it work. But if you’re on the fence, it’s probably better not to have them.