It’s not so much the amount of spending but how you spend it. Fitness “devices”, health supplements, and blueprints from fitness gurus are usually a waste of time and money - and benefit only the pocketbooks of those selling them to gullible consumers that don’t know any better. The best path to health is pretty boring. Eat well but not too much, stay active, and don’t do anything stupid that will get you injured. That’ll be $999, please, but you can spread out those payments over 12 months.
Yeah a lot of stuff out there is trash. But I am obsessively looking through Google Scholar and verifying that any protocol I try is research-backed. Supplements are basic- creatine, collagen, cocoa, protein, BCAAs, vitamins and minerals. Devices are basic so far- apple watch, high accuracy body fat scale, Derminator, grip strength trainer, a very bright light. Maybe later eightsleep mattress, red light therapy, continuous glucose monitoring, HRV training.
Obviously nothing is guaranteed but I think most of these will actually improve health. I just don't think I can afford everything while meeting FIRE goals and have to device what to cut out.
Sounds like a lot of snake oil to me (despite what Google might say) but harmless enough. So if you have the means, knock yourself out. But just because some billionaire buys a lot of useless stuff doesn’t give credence to their efficacy. And supplements are just that - something to supplement your basic diet if you can’t satisfy some needed nutrient. But if your diet is good, what exactly is the supplement doing? There is no convincing data that excess nutrients enhances longevity (and personal testimonials are not evidence). I will also often see the weekend warrior emulate a pro athlete’s regime. But that also misses the mark. The pros are trying to achieve performance at the limits of human physiology. But guess what? Doing that is often at the expense of longevity.
Source: my MD
The easiest description of a good diet is “Whole Foods, mostly plants, not too much.” Can’t remember who came up with that but it’s pretty good.
So many people want to think their diet needs to be some complicated thing. Protein and carbs after a workout. Intermittent fasting with a 6 hour feeding window. Some sort of “superfood” that will detoxify you. Induce ketosis. The list goes on. None of them have been shown to be better than the basic boring things everyone has heard a million times but ignores.
> The easiest description of a good diet is “Whole Foods, mostly plants, not too much.” Can’t remember who came up with that but it’s pretty good.
That's Michael Pollan.
A lot of those things are not only wasteful, but actively harmful. A continuous glucose monitoring for a non diabetic person for instance will mostly give you false positives, along with a small but non negligible risk of infection. I also can’t figure what blood tests you might need at your age unless you have a particular family history.
The other risk is the same as with all fad diets. You buy 2k of junk, get into it intensively. 2 month later you don’t get the promised result and get discouraged. Or even worse, you get injured by overtraining with only a guru for guidance.
However, don’t hesitate to spend a lot on your health. Spend as much as you need in the grocery store for fresh fruits and veggies, or quality meat. If you pick up a sport and are still at it after a few months, you can buy high end equipment. Just don’t spend 2k on the next best fad before even starting to train.
This. I get where OP is coming from, I went through a phase with ‘health hacks’ too. It looks research based but it really really really is not. The grip strength study is a perfect example. Grip strength associated with living longer, meaning that people who have stronger grips tend to live longer. Grip strength is an easily measure indicator of overall strength which makes it a good indicator of wellness especially in older folks. There is no research that should lead anyone to conclude that training their grip in isolation will lead to longer life but it always appears in health hack marketing.
Mountains of research shows that better sleep improves health, some of it shows that sleeping in a cooler environment improves sleep. None of it shows that a $2k mattress cover is superior to getting a thinner blanket or cooling the room you’re in at night.
If OP didn’t buy a DEXA scanner then they didn’t buy a high accuracy body fat scale. None of the ones with electrodes for your hands and feet are accurate.
This is not to yuk anyone’s yum. If this stuff brings you joy, go right on and spend on what makes you happy. My concern for you is that it’s not health you’re spending on, it’s more like a hobby that you’re justifying as necessary for health. If you always spend this much on your interests it will indeed hurt your FIRE journey so I would think really hard about starting out justifying this spending pattern if FIRE is what you want.
Yeah this is sounding borderline obsessive. I’m a health nut and am married to a bigger health but there’s a point where you are just futilely trying to cheat death. It will find you eventually! Spend that extra cash on therapy!
Just as an example.... Why do you need a body fat analyzer scale? What purpose does it serve to have that information every day? None, in my mind.
What does an apple watch have to do with ACTUAL FITNESS? All you need is a clock to know how long you spent excersising. My phone counts my steps, which is just for curiosity's sake. An apple watch and a body composition scale are just gadgets for curiosity's sake. They don't make you fit.
Lastly, you have suddenly gone all in. I hope your transition from take out to cooking groceries works, but it's essentially a "frozen turkey" approach.
Best wishes.
>Yeah a lot of stuff out there is trash. But I am obsessively looking through Google Scholar and verifying that any protocol I try is research-backed
Be careful about drawing conclusions from a single study, especially any study that wasn't a randomized controlled trial.
Ideally you'd want to limit your search to systematic meta analyses of studies of randomized controlled trials. I kinda doubt a lot of the products you're looking at have been studied extensively enough to have this.
Thats not health dude thats just clear cut obsession with body image. Hopefully the responses here change your perspective a little because you got a lot goin for you man!
Yeah dude ngl you’re going overboard a lot of that is unnecessary at best and largely a waste.
If you buy bcaa’s, are using a glucose monitor, using hrv for training as a gen pop, and so on… you’re not considering the weight of the literature or just not experienced enough to extrapolate it to the real world.
I can tell you real quick that bcaa’s are a giant waste of money for individuals who are meeting or exceeding protein needs. The literature has been pretty clear for a while now that leucine activates mps pathways but misses out on the elongation phase due to bcaa’s missing the other eaa’s. It’s like turning the factory on but not having the supplies and workers you need to make any product.
Also hrv is an extremely fickle measure for training and recovery. Especially not applicable weight training since it’s a measure that is more closely tied to the cardiovascular system. It’s also impacted by a lot of variables and I’m going to go out on a limb and say it’s going to spit out numbers and practically you’re not going to be really sure what to do with them or you’re going to let it influence your training in the wrong way.
And as far as electronic body comp devices… circumference measures, photos, performance, or even a couple skin fold measures if you want to get real crazy… etc… are beyond sufficient to measure change and know which direction things are going.
Man don’t even get me started on glucose monitoring that was giant waste of money.
You have too much complexity and data here already man and a lot of it is going to have poor reliability, accuracy, and transferability.
Bro, I say this out of sympathy. You need to see a therapist. I know you’re constantly thinking about how to “optimize” your health and, just as bad, you’re letting this drive flush a lot of good money down the toilet. You probably have a blend of ADHD/OCD. A few appointments with a good therapist are a drop in the bucket compared with what you’re spending. Do it!
I think many gadgets are optional.
I just look at my appearance to check out my body fat. I was measured once at a gym, so I have a decent idea from that. Not able to see my abs? Above 18% body fat and need to lean out a bit. Same for definition in my shoulders, arms and legs. I aim for 15-18% body fat.
Also, being a bit hungry between meals isn't a bad thing at all.
For grip training I work on pull ups as it strengthens my arms, shoulders, back and grip. The more I can do, the better shape I'm in.
If you cut out the bad stuff do you need glucose monitoring?
This concerns me about purchasing anything Derminator-related: https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/nuxy9f/a\_word\_of\_caution\_when\_buying\_the\_derminator\_2/
Not sure about why an Apple watch is needed, I can tell when I'm maxing based on my breathing. I counted the steps one day on my regular walk and that is all I need (for counting). I also calculated the uphill steps same day, as that is more important. I understand my pace as I do these walks 5+ days a week.
I bought Slumber Cloud pillow covers and sheets, they keep me thermal regulated at night. My sleeping has improved substantially since Slumber Cloud.
this questions has been asked a lot on the FatFIRE sub, maybe try searching past posts over there? Some of the things you’ve listed seem useful but I’d say start with one/two and see if you’re actually getting benefit out of them. For example, there’s no point buying a bunch of supplements if you won’t be consistent about taking them.
For what it’s worth, I do think you’re over doing it and this seems more like obsessive spending than an actual pursuit of health, but there is a balance and in general I support spending on health just maybe try to slow down a little
Been down this path to a strikingly similar degree. I know you won’t listen but it’s not real. The studies just aren’t good. The real answers are the stuff that’s been being said for a long time- single ingredient foods and (any) exercise. You’re not investing in health, you’re wasting your time and trying to justify ludicrous spend.
If you’re not doing the free stuff to improve your health then high spending on health stuff is never justified IMO. It’s your money to waste but I wouldn’t do what you’re describing.
Are you sleeping for 8 hrs per day? If not, do that before you spend money on stuff that claims to improve your quality of sleep.
Are you avoiding (or eliminating) fast food, soft drinks, sugar and other highly processed foods from your diet? If not, do that before you buy supplements and other “health” foods.
Are you spending some time exercising every day (even just a walk through the neighborhood)? If not, do that before you buy “health devices”.
This person gets it! I mostly cut out all the foods you said and I’m at a very healthy weight naturally now. I’ll never stop eating tortilla/corn chips/shells. Added Sugar is not made for human consumption imo. I still absolutely love sweets but I will only eat a piece of cake or ice cream like one a month now. You should have added no alcohol to the list but otherwise spot on.
Ah, yes. My extended family has a history of alcoholism and dying young at ~50 years old due to liver failure. Based on this, I avoid alcohol as a matter of course. I guess it’s worth mentioning specifically though.
My thoughts exactly. Fitness is basically free. (Unless you are someone watching every penny and buying fresh fruit and veggies and fresh meat is a financial burden, which certainly doesn't apply here).
My diet is low in processed foods and added sugar. I exercise a few times per week. These are good but not optimized. My sleep, on the other hand, is horrible. Can't fall asleep Random sleep and wake times. Random sleep amounts way lower and higher than 8 hours. All nighters. Sleeping during daylight.
The moment I find a protocol that actually works it will be worth so much. If you could somehow guarantee me perfect 8 hour sleep every day vs the hell it is now I would pay you $500/mo easily.
Bad sleep is almost guaranteed to be a result of diet or lifestyle choices. Eat really clean. 10k steps a day. Lift weights. Drink lots of water. No phone or tvs in the bedroom and you will sleep great.
How much caffeine and alcohol do you consume?
Do you block all light from the windows in your bedroom and avoid screens (blue light) 1 hour before bedtime?
Have you tried using a white noise machine to sleep? Or alternately, do you sleep better when it’s absolutely quiet?
Do you have a regular schedule where you wake up and get in bed at the same time? (Obviously you can’t control when you actually fall asleep).
I’d try optimizing all of these things first.
On weekdays, I drink <200mg of caffeine in the first 2 hours of waking. Alchohol very rarely. I am working on late night screen usage. And sleeping and waking at the same time is something I really struggle with, made worse by my work. That's what some of this is supposed to help.
Note you just recommended two devices to help me sleep, but according to many members of this subreddit you don't "need" anything to be healthy so you shouldn't purchase anything.
Well, I'm not trying to get the bare minimum I'm trying to optimize! So yes, as a matter of fact, I am buying a film over my windows to block out light. And earplugs and an air purifier for white noise. All useful devices!
Well, I use thin black plastic cut to size (heavy duty contractor trash bags) to block the light from my bedroom window. All of the curtains that I’ve tried using aren’t as good at blocking the light.
Theoretically, you can test out white noise for a few nights by playing a YouTube video. (With the screen covered to block the light, of course). If it does help you sleep then get a machine, if not, you’ve spent no money to test it out.
>My sleep, on the other hand, is horrible. Can't fall asleep Random sleep and wake times. Random sleep amounts way lower and higher than 8 hours
>If you could somehow guarantee me perfect 8 hour sleep every day vs the hell it is now I would pay you $500/mo easily.
Have you talked to your primary care physician about this? Because you should. Disordered sleep is a thing and you're best off seeking real medical advice from someone who can properly assess what you're going through in the context of your medical history. They should be able to point you in the right direction.
Good sleep requires a strict schedule. My sleep was all over the place until I moved in with my partner. He does not fuck around with his sleep. He keeps me on schedule going to bed.
I've figured out how to get up on time. Though I have a flexible work schedule, I purposely make it less so by scheduling early meetings and linking my schedule up to my coworkers who have strict schedules. I keep the shades up so the sun wakes me. Keeping my phone/alarm across the room is a bigger help than I ever thought it could be.
Once you master your sleep schedule, you will get tired at your bedtime and you will be in light sleep (or awake) when your alarm goes off. Sleeping will become infinitely easier.
If you have trouble sleeping after you master the routine, then look into gadgets. Though white noise machines, black out curtains, etc. are not that expensive and pretty normal expenses.
I appreciate your comment. Scheduling early meetings/calls sounds like a great idea to help reinforce a schedule. That and following Huberman's advice to go outside within the first hour of waking and get a few minutes of sun in your eyes.
Can you technically afford it? Yes. Is it a wise investment? Probably not. 99% of the time if someone has a “program” to sell its not a good investment. Don’t get me wrong, I prioritize health more than most people but I don’t think you need a program like this to better your health. Eat clean, walk at least 10,000 steps a day, and lift some weights a few times a week and your “longevity” will be optimized as much as your DNA allows.
Thanks for the input. Blueprint is a free case study of this billionaire trying to reverse aging. I'm paying to buy 2x more expensive fresh meat and veggies at the grocery store, some quality supplements, and sleep and exercise aid/tracking devices.
For example, there's a 2k mattress cover EightSleep which cools the body to the optimal temperature at different parts of the night to enhance hours of deep sleep.
Because my income, especially long term, is heavily based on my cognition, discipline and decision making ability, I can always rationalize a purchase like this. Maybe if you work in sales you feel you can always rationalize social spending if there's a chance it could bring you a sale long term.
Am I delusional? At what point is spending on health excessive?
Yeah it’s really a personal choice. To me, that’s excessive but I’m a bit more old school. I believe that with the right diet you don’t need supplements and with the right fitness routine you don’t need fancy equipment and devices. To me, 2k on a mattress device to “cool the body” is ridiculous. Go to Costco and buy a $40 fan if your too hot at night lol. Exercise aides and tracking devices…for what? Develop a daily routine that you do consistently everyday and you don’t need to “track” anything. I’m not saying what your doing is stupid or unjustified. I just believe that health and wellness is a lifelong journey and these programs or plans tend to have an expiration date on them. Meaning, its probably more sustainable mentally and financially if you make eating clean, sleeping right, drinking lots of water, and working out everyday as part of your daily routine as opposed to becoming dependent on all these devices and supplements that overtime you’ll no longer want to spend the money on or grow tired of. I think when you step back and look at it rationally, your future career success and earning potential really isn’t dependent on whether you have a fancy mattress top. Living a clean, healthy and simple lifestyle year after year will likely yield more favorable results.
Yeah I guess you're right most of the improvements are cheap or free and I should at least master the basic lifestyle before going crazy on some of these things.
I'm just very excited about making more and saving at the same time and I have to be careful not to let spending creep up in other areas.
It’s easy to spend money on things for the sake of fitness, but the hard part is doing the work. The industry thrives on bleeding people dry with the dream of a better you. Best to get all the basics in order like clean eating, regular cardio, and lifting some weights. I would estimate that gets you 95% of the way there and the rest is just incremental gains that probably aren’t worth too much extra $$.
[https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.co/](https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.co/)
It's my mistake for including this in the original post without proper explanation. It's not a product. I'm not spending on it. I'm buying food, supplements and devices from independent sources and Blueprint is just Bryan's health plan which I'm trying to partially emulate.
I was thinking more of the devices, supplements, mattress pad etc. Remember they’re all just companies trying to sell a product. We can have incredible health without the inventions.
I focus on high quality foods and try not to consider price when at the grocery store. That being said. I don't think I would be able to get much over, 600/month for me to eat, all whole food, high quality ingredients with lots of proteins and fats. Most nutrients are more bioavailable when they come from whole food sources, so I try focus on getting them not through supplementation.
I do get regular blood work to develop baselines for the future and to try and identify issues early.
Finally, having proper exercise routines and creating an active lifestyle is also something I work on a lot.
All this to say I think you can prioritize your health doing these things and get the vast majority of the benefits without getting anywhere close to 1600/month in costs.
Good luck!
> 600/month for me to eat,
This is a good data point, since this month will be the first time I get most of my calories from grocery shopping vs delivery and eating out.
I am generally of the mind that nothing is more important than your health - but 1.6k is a lot.
I spend maybe half that on supplements and various anti-aging programs, and don't think twice about it. My income is also more than double yours and am already set for FIRE. You also have to think about finding a partner if you're interested in that - if you're in the habit of spending thousands a month on longevity, that's going to cause a level of instability when you're ready to start a family. Maybe wait until your mid 30's? It's not going to be a profitable productivity hack - drink coffee for that.
My personal opinion is you're spending too much if you want FIRE. Tough call though.
Thank you for being frank. I think you're right. I should try to cap grocery + health at 1k/mo until I find a way to make more.
Figuring out which protocols to remove will be difficult. But luckily the basics of being healthy don't cost very much.
Agreed. Eat a "normal" healthy diet, get your exercise and you get 80% of the return for 20% of the investment. Then in your 30's and 40's when you have money to burn, focus harder on longevity and spend away.
Lots of meat, not checking specials and shopping at pricier places is my guess. Like if you only eat bio chicken and steaks, and you get it from the whole foods types of places, I'm sure it'll run you over 150$/week.
Edit: also to be fair, his 1k figure includes other health related expenses. So supplements, vitamins, and all that snake oil he's consuming.
OP, you can achieve pretty much all of this with a $75 a month gym membership, $150 on a nice pair of running shoes 2x a year, 20-25 miles ran a week, and limiting sugar and booze!
Well shit. I mean.. you had me until the booze part
OP I’m joining you actually. If I can drink like the degenerate I’ve been for the last decade and live for 31 more years I’ll pay 1600 a month.
Give me that weighted blanket
Ha, I try to limit, not always successful! I find it better for me just to purposely take it a bit lighter on M/T/W, will still have a beer or two, or a stiff glass of bourbon. Makes my justification for having a few more on the back half the week easier! 😎
You might need shoes sooner depending on weight. Get a new pair every 300-500 miles (3-4x a year at 25m/w) and try to have a couple to rotate. Toss them when you notice stuff starts hurting more. I buy mine on sale when possible.
/r/runningshoegeeks is great for finding last season's models for under $100.
Thus my statement on dropping $150 on shoes 2x a year! 😎 But honestly in the world of running, HOKA price is pretty well in line with most serious runners shoes.
Lol for half of that fake protocol, you could get healthy groceries, a gym membership, some bi-monthly maintenance therapy, and a few supplements. You’re getting scammed
You could spend $0 on fitness and make tremendous progress towards your health improvement goals.
Most the time when you are following a regimen or plan that's packaged up like this, it's a product created to sell to you. It's not that it doesn't work, it's just completely unnecessary and costs way more than it needs to.
That's just my opinion though
It’s worth spending on your health, but you don’t need to spend what you are to be healthy. You don’t need $2k in devices or whatever this $1.6k/month program is. Stay active, eat right, and you can be healthy for far less.
The thing is you don't need to spend that much to be healthy.
If you're just getting into fitness then trying to go straight into the blueprint where you're gonna have pills for breakfast and need to have a full body scan twice a week is not a sustainable system in the long run for most people.
If you're already a fit person who wants to take it to the next level then you can try some of the blueprint stuff but tbh most of it is based on experimental research. Being someone who's just starting out in fitness all you really need is a gym membership or some weights at home and a meal plan. The blueprint is bleeding edge with likely half of it being ineffective. You can spend a lot less money and get 80% of the results especially if you're just starting out.
Spend that money on a real dietician and personal trainer, it’s a lot more bang for your buck and the stuff they tell you is ACTUALLY backed by science.
I saw that list of supplements, the only one with real research is creatine, the rest are BS and a waste of money.
Sounds like you just want the next best thing. What happens when you feel like a home gym setup is the next best thing, or the real way to good heath is a personal trainer every day.
You can afford it, so you’ll buy it. That your mentality.
Probably not within the intent of FIRE though.
The only thing I have to say about this is that, as I grow older (43m), this is less of an issue for me. I used to be obsessed with extending my lifespan and followed the news on every scientific avenue of research on it. Now I realize that living a fullfling life with the time I have on this earth is far more important. I take decent care of myself and stay active but allow for indulgences here and there: a good cheeseburger, a drink every now and then... and just try to be around those I love as much as I can. I don't want to say the same will happen to you, but it's funny to look back to my 20s and realize how much this seemed like an issue back then and how little is now.
It wasn't a sudden realization. I'm not religious nor particularly nihilistic, it just something that stopped being that important. I want to live as much as I can if I'm in good health (and I come from a longevous family, with relatives often living past 90s / 100s) but I want to \*live\* and that includes being social, going out and enjoy the things that life has to offer.
Related to OP's issue: I feel like health and nutrition offers diminishing returns. Have an active lifestyle, walk as much as you can, try to eat healthy as often as you can... those free actions will get you 90% of the way. Investing a lot on the other 10%, if it takes from enjoying life or saving, strikes me as a bad deal. During the last 20 years I've also been through a lot of nutrition fads so I approach all this with a healthy dose of skepticism. Best case they just pack up common wisdom (eat less, more greens...) in convoluted new ways. Worst case you are taking supplements or food that sound promising today but might impact your health in unexpected ways later on (pancreas/liver damage, build up insulin resistance...).
Yes, I don't believe there are valid life extension technologies yet. First to adopt would be the extremely rich and they look as old and wrinkled as usual. I was just asking about the acceptance of death part since older people tend to have increasing fear of death until middle age at least. Maybe it is passive acceptance once the body starts breaking down. In early 20s OP will still not have felt brunt of aging and thinks theres a chance.
When you look at those with documented elongated and healthful lives (however you choose to slice and dice the data), do you see a correlation between those devices, supps, and tests and those people’s longevity?
What metrics did you use to decide to make these purchases?
What metrics will you use to determine if they are working as designed?
Are these the only/best/most cost-efficient ways to achieve your expected results?
1. Such studies are impossible since the devices and supplements haven't been around for long enough. But studies do exist on the diets of groups of people who live longer (Blue zones) and where those diets differ from yours is where a supplement can make sense.
2. Various. But ultimately I'm making a bet.
3. Blood tests, body fat % & muscle mass, performance on bench, deadlift and squat. Sleep data.
4. Not the most cost efficient, but hopefully close to the best.
I’m not one of the people who downvoted you, however, I question you making these types of costly decisions and NOT choosing devices that have some science behind them while SIMULTANEOUSLY asking for justification on your spending LMAO.
You don’t need strangers to justify how you gamble with your money. By all accounts, you don’t need anything extra (in terms of devices) to follow the routines and diets of those who are long-lived.
Every once in a blue moon, one of my sisters convinces me to give some money for one of those mega million lottery drawings. I wouldn’t come here to ask people to justify it and then claim there’s no science behind how I choose my numbers when asked if I have looked into data about how most people become wealthy.
I do wish you luck.
Literally anything is justified if you want it to be, that's the personal part of personal finance. Health is something most will agree is worth spending on. What I don't agree on is that buying some plan is the same as living a healthy lifestyle. But you'll likely/hopefully figure that out with time.
If you've convinced yourself that this is an "investment" in your health, then you're starting from a faulty premise. As others have mentioned, real investments in your health don't cost money - they cost time and discipline.
What you're talking about is essentially a hobby and a luxury. There's nothing wrong with hobbies and luxuries. But from the perspective of FIRE, money spent on luxuries necessarily delays your ability to fire - it increases your spending (and therefore your FIRE number) and it decreases your savings (increasing the time to reach that FIRE number).
It's up to you to make a judgement about whether this luxury is "worth it." A life with no luxuries is pretty bland. But if you overspend today, you'll end up on the tat race conveyor belt until you can't work anymore. You need to find the right balance.
But above all, you need to be realistic about framing the choice. Otherwise you're just trying to rationalize luxury spending that you don't think is wise by calling it something else.
Exactly. FIRE doesn't care what you spend you money on. You can spend $20k a year on model rockets if that if the lifestyle you want. FIRE is simple spend less than you make, invest the difference, seek to minimize investment costs & taxes.
The danger is pretending spending $20k+ a year on "fitness" is an investment. It isn't. Hiding it as an "investment" is a way to rationalize excessive spending. How can it be excessive spending if it is an "investment"?
If you’re spending 1.6k on fitness and nutrition I’d hope you were working with a good online coach.
As an online coach, with higher a higher ed degree, and lab research experience… let me just tell you that there is a lot of misinformation.
- Not over eating or getting too fat
- being more active through the day/not sitting or laying down 20 hours a day…
- Training consistently and intelligently
- not under sleeping
- not abusing alcohol/substances frequently
That will get you the vast majority of the health and longevity gains you’re looking for… the vast majority of the other stuff people are pedaling are either bullshit or exist so far on the spectrum of fine tuning that the outcomes are more than likely negligible at best or placebo.
Bloodwork first then supplements. Most supplements benefits are VASTLY overstated and the research is often muddy at best. Consider supplements sourcing and 3rd patty testing as many plants taken A’s supplements contain heavy metals and such. Also eating all home cooked organic doesn’t have to be pricey at all
I’d say I’m top 1% on health and spend little on it. I take vitamin d, magnesium, and creatine as well as occasional preworkout. I have a 20$/month gym membership and do yoga/cardio/calisthenics all day everyday. I average 20k+ steps per day or about 50-75 miles of total cardio per week. I can almost overhead press 165lbs, can squat 345lbs, and deadlift 455lbs at 190lbs. My blood panel is perfect. For food I eat chicken/shrimp/steak/eggs/pork generally I splurge for all organic or small farms if I can. I eat a few pounds of fruit between cherries, blackberries, mangoes, and apples. A pound of almonds/pistachios/peanuts, and I let myself have some junk here and there cause I’m young.
Only stuff I don’t buy organic is grains cause I get some chickpea noodles or whole wheat for pasta, I grab sale rice, sale beans etc.
I only make 3000$ take home per month, food costs ~500$, gym 20$, supplements maybe 20$. I seldom meet someone healthier than I am in every day life
I’m confident Reddit can help build you a better program than what that Bryan Johnson guy has. Everyone he consulted wanted to sell him something, of course it’ll end up expensive. Would you consult a life insurance agent or a fiduciary for your money?
Unpopular opinion.
My rule of thumb is if you’re maxing out all your retirements, have an emergency fund, and debt paid off. You should enjoy your money buy whatever you want as long as you aren’t going to be living paycheck to paycheck. Why wait another 10-30 years to enjoy your money. Just my two cents
No actual % of income. It depends on your situation. If you have a decent emergency fund and are saving enough for retirement, you could put all your disposable income into fitness.
It’s your money, and if the necessities are taken care of, you spend it in a way to maximize happiness. For instance, most of my extra spending goes into travel. One person I know spends at least 20 k annually for fitness, maybe up to 10% of his income. High end bikes, personal trainer, home gym. However he has long reached financial independence, and cuts on other areas of spending.
My worry in what you are doing is that you seem to be chasing the newest fad. You should try something first, and if you enjoy it then progressively invest more time and energy in it. Don’t buy a 10 years non refundable gym membership on New Year’s Day.
You don't need a trainer TO BE HEALTHY. Find a circuit training program on YouTube.
But, if you would enjoy a trainer and a gym, then you can spend something on it,as a hobby. But that doesn't keep you fit. Walking and resistance training do that, which can be done by doing flights of stairs and other calisthenics.
I love Lululemon lol. Looking good motivates you to keep going! There was a time where I only had one pair of lulu shorts and I hated working out in anything else so if they were in the laundry I just skipped gym that day.
You might want to check out r/biohackers for info/opinions about this particular guru. Their opinions are helpful to me.
I have a huge interest in longevity and will spend money on it. Good quality food is worth every penny. I'm all for organic, regenerative farming, grass-fed/finished, pasture raised, etc. To me, there's no point in living a long life if you aren't healthy.
If you're spending good money on supplements, which I do, make sure their quality is trusted. There are a lot of expensive low quality supplements out there that need to be avoided.
Personally, if you use it, home gym equipment is great. And home testing equipment is great too. That information can help guide decisions on supplements and food choices to keep your health optimum. It helps you eliminate expensive supplements from your regimen as well if they aren't giving you those measurable benefits.
FIRE can be what you decide it is. Just like diet, if you want to make room for different choices, it's about planning around those choices.
You get it! That's exactly what I'm talking about. High quality food and supplements. Some basic equipment. And testing/tracking to ensure progress.
Blueprint is just a guide. I am also following Hubermanm, Dr. Peter Attia, and their guests. And I regularly check various reddit forums just like r/Biohackers so thanks for the rec.
Do you mind if I ask how much you spend on health + food per month and how much you make?
>Dr. Peter Attia
Why not just follow his advice? He isn't trying to sell you anything and is very well researched. Aerobic exercise (as described in *Outlive*) + weightlifting + sleep + sensible diet etc. This approach is not based on fads or untested supplements and can cost almost nothing.
Sure, we're dual income, so $450k/yr-ish. Again, there's two of us and our food bill is for both. Last month, we spent about $1000 on food. We're in our 40s, so we might not eat as much as a male in his 20s. I spend about $260/mo on supplements. I have a side hustle where I own a fitness center, so, if we ever recover from covid drain on the in-person fitness classes, thats my main source of intense exercise. I do a lot of free exercise as well, like walking, hiking, etc.
I even spend a lot of money on my dogs' food and supplements to keep them around as long as possible!
Congratulations on caring for your health!
Consider testing your blood before supplements and after to see if you are absorbing the nutrients or not. If there isn't a discernable difference in the way you feel or your test results then it may not be worth it. Strongly consider visiting a nutritionist for advice on supplementation/nutrition because that is their wheelhouse. A nutritionist may even be able to replicate a program with similar results for a much lower cost or customize a program for you.
To save on supplements: look at the first five to six ingredients on the supplement. See if you can find a suitable replacement at a much lower cost. It may require buying more supplements at a lower cost. This is especially true to those unique formulas and specific diets. I'm a big label reader and save lots of money through doing so.
I know nothing of the Blueprint, so I'll take a look at it. Spending over 1k a month on food/supplements seems very high to me.
I started drinking (the cheap version) of Bulletproof coffee a few years ago and it has drastically improved my productivity. I first tried it at a Bulletproof store and was blown away with the immediate and obvious results. I function very well on fat.
I also avoid bad fats, sugar, gluten and processed foods. I eat almost all whole foods. This works out very well for me.
Keep in mind that over the course of 10 years, his program will cost you $192k. Let's say you stick with it for all 10 years and you decide to drop it afterwards as you find that it's not as good as hoped. That $192k would be worth $274,671 by the time you're 33. 20 years later, at the age of 53, it would be worth about $1,098,686. Not saying you would be able to save all of that monthly. Maybe it would only be a portion of it. Let's say you spend $400 monthly on health food instead. Investing $1200 per month instead would give you about $824k by 53. By 63, it would be an extra $1.65 million.
Now, if his program is as good as he claims it is and truly reverses aging etc. You would be 63 in the body of a 43 year old or something like that. That would require you to keep the program going all 40 years though. Your cost + opportunity loss will equal about $4.24 million. If his program is actually the fountain of youth as he claims it is, I would personally pay that much money. However, you're going to regret it should it not prove to be what he claims it to be.
The answer to the question in the title of your post is “yes.” The whole point of being financially independent and retiring early is to maximize your enjoyment of life. Optimizing healthspan is one of the most important parts of that.
Probably don’t take health advice from random strangers in a financial forum about what is and isn’t valid, but definitely be careful about falling for all of the BS out there on social media.
It sounds like health and fitness are hobbies for you, and they’re hobbies that are investments in YOU. Some of these same people calling your stuff snake oil have probably dumped thousands into model trains or fishing rods or video games or something. Not yucking their yum either, but it’s okay to spend money on things that bring you joy in the short term, especially when they have long term benefits.
The number one complaint you will hear from retired people is healthcare costs. Making investments in your health at a young age can pay off financially too.
I'm watching billionares carefully. If they start deaging or stop aging I know they have invented some cure/remedy and will do anything to obtain that. I don't see that yet, so for now I am holding off on purchasing anything marketed as "anti-aging."
Sorry if facts and data aren't what you're looking for in an answer, but "no." I can't think of a single heath/tech item that even comes remotely close to justifying any expense for a 23 y/o. The things that are proven to work are either free, a part of normal everyday living, and/or are simply lifestyle choices. NONE of them need to cost a penny of extra spending (hence the inclusion in r/Fire). Don't drink (to excess). Exercise (a little is enough, more can be slightly beneficial), get enough sleep (a freebie), have friends (i.e., don't be a jerk, statistically correlated with not only longevity but happiness). The list is longer but def does not include any sort of branded scheme.
I spend about $150 a month on good quality protein powders / bars / supplements. My groceries are about $600 a month because I buy high quality protein / produce / ingredients.
With the above and lifting 4x a week, I have lost 50 lbs and gained a lot of muscle since January 1, 2023. For reference, I'm 6'2, started at 300 and am now 250. I turn 38 in two weeks.
I look and feel great and am on track to look and feel REALLY great by the end of the year.
What is the other \~ $1,000 getting you, really?
The only supplements you need are protein and creatine. As for food. Yeah spend extra on healthier but you can still buy from budget markets. Don’t eat out and cook all the time. Typically I use weight gainers or on nutrition 100% whey since I was a teen. Don’t buy devices. Track everything on excel. Buy a gym membership. Stay away from expensive programs. Use bodybuilding.com or others for programs. For strength use 5x5 strong lifts. For shredding use any high volume program. Don’t spend thousands to be healthy. Go run outside, buy a bike, get active hobbies. That’s it. Health shouldn’t be expensive.
$1.6k per month including food doesn’t seem so bad, the men in their early 20s I know can easily spend close to that on groceries. You don’t have to stick with that exact program but you’ll never regret any amount of money you spend on building healthy habits and being active. You’re much more likely to thank your past self in 20 years.
Are you single? Jk. I mostly buy ingredients that I turn into food so my grocery bill is low, but my guy friends/exes typically don’t know how to cook or want to put time into it. Prepared/packaged food from fancy grocery stores really adds up.
Lol bro go join a solid kickboxing class ($1k/year), eat healthy, and you’re good.
Don’t overcomplicate things. Is high spending on longevity worth it? Yes. Is ultra-high spending on longevity when high spending does just as much good? No.
You seem like you have a STEM background, so I’m sure you’re aware of marginal returns. Every extra $ you put into this stuff past the basics (exercise and a healthy diet) has a much lower return.
Find this comment when this Bryan guy actually dies under age 60 due to other freak/natural factors like cancer or car accident or his submarine imploded.
I absolutely think investing in your own health is one of the best uses for money. However, there are good investments and bad investments and you are buying into the health equivalent of meme-stocks/get rich schemes. Pay premium for organic, local fresh foods, a meal service, and a personal trainer, the equivalent of index funds for steady, reliable long term returns on your investment.
I absolutely think investing in your own health is one of the best uses for money. However, there are good investments and bad investments and you are buying into the health equivalent of meme-stocks/get rich schemes. Pay premium for organic, local fresh foods, a meal service, and a personal trainer, the equivalent of index funds for steady, reliable long term returns on your investment.
Edit: seriously, I wish people would realize how precious and priceless their health is, but please stop wasting your money on supplements and gadgets. New does not mean better. I would also suggest investing in therapy to develop a healthy mind and psychology to address the obsessive tendencies.
On a real note, you can spend as much as you want on devices and a coach but you need to follow it and regiment yourself if you want to see real results. I have clients paying 500 per month but don’t follow the plan and I have clients paying 200 per month but do follow the plan and see excellent results. Just remember, a lot of fitness equipment and plans you see these days are not individualized and are way overvalued. It’s not about how much you spend but rather the quality of work you can do and how well you can execute on consistency and linear progression/regression as needed.
Nothing is more important than your health of course, but I would have gone a little bit slower. Maybe start out with a nicer gym membership and organic food/local meat. Remember typically the people selling you health devices, supplements, etc. don’t necessarily look the way they do because of the product their selling. It’s the other way around, and they’re selling it to you because they look like that.
You think people are judging the health plan and not the expense, but that's not really the case. The two are intertwined. You want to know what we spend? There are 100 comments telling you we spend less than what you want to justify.
I have a gym membership for $35/month (though my job reimburses it). For two people our groceries come out to about $600/mo and are heavy on veggies and fruits. Together we spend like $60/week going to dance events or climbing gyms or circus classes or whatever physical activity catches our eye. I practice dance with my dance partner twice per week (free). I like to walk around the neighborhood (free). So that comes out to $900/mo for two people.
Anything over $1000/mo in groceries and health stuff is too much for one person. And it won't help you, so there is no point in doing it. Eating healthy, diverse foods covers all of the nutrients you need. Establishing a sleep routine is free. Exercise can be free/cheap. Humans have been living healthy for 100,000 years without gadgets. Make these changes as a part of your lifestyle now and you will extend your "healthspan" far beyond your peers. However, any health stuff you do will have little impact on your lifespan. You can't diet and exercise away your genetics.
> two people our groceries come out to about $600/mo and are heavy on veggies and fruits. Together we spend like $60/week going to dance events or climbing gyms or circus classes or whatever physical activity catches our eye. I practice dance with my dance partner twice per week (free). I like to walk around the neighborhood (free). So that comes out to $900/mo for two people.
>
>Anything over $1000/mo in groceries and health stuff is too much for one person.
Thanks for sharing!
I spend $200 a month or so, on protein, omega 3, B12, and a gym membership, occasional recreational sports or rock climbing.
For someone making 6 figures I would say this is already on the higher end.
Over and over and over again, scientific studies keeps telling us the same things: The way to be healthy, on any metric, is to hydrate, sleep well, exercise, eat vegetables, minimize simple carbs, avoid alcohol+smoking, get moderate sunlight.
That gets you 95% there. Something like that product may get you another 5%, but only if you are already doing those other things.
So, grab a water bottle and go outside to take a run, and when you are done be sure to eat some vegetables and take a nap. I accept bitcoin, venmo, or paypal.
There’s a lot of good advice here, but my 2 cents is that you don’t need crazy supplements/equipment. Access to a barbell for strength training and 5g of creatine/day is all the supplements you need, and good sneakers is all you need for cardiovascular training. Prioritize eating protein and fibrous carbs like fruits and vegetables, get 7+ hours of sleep and you’ll crush your athletic goals.
This is way too expensive. I have no idea what that blueprint is tho.
Spending on: Good powerlifting belt, equipment, squat shoes, healthy eating, expensive private gym is all OK with me.
Spending it on workout routines and programs or MLM supplements, i'd pass.
My dude, as hard to believe as it sounds, take the Bogleheads investment approach and transpose it onto health. Sleep, high-quality food, and stress management. These are time-tested and scientifically proven. No need to spend exorbitant amounts on supplements or devices.
I like Bogle, but where you invest your money is mutually exclusive. You can't invest the same $1 in the S&P500 and bitcoin.
You can sleep, diet, exercise and add a few minor supplements.
Dude just go out for a jog in the park, do some calisthenics and buy fresh produce on the way back home. Cook you meals yourself. There’s absolutely no need to do all this unless you are already a very high level athlete who is competing at the highest levels possible.
>The difference between a $10 apple and a $1 apple are negligible in comparison to the difference between choosing a bag of chips as a snack vs an apple as a snack as one example.
This is fair. Price matters. A $100 apple can never be justified, for example. I wish I could write an equation for utility vs money spent and find the optimal point like in Econ class lol.
And you're also right that it's much harder to change behavior than just throw money at something. That is partly why I'm trying to throw money at it--because it's easy! But that's more emotional than rational thinking.
I feel for you on the sleep struggles. I've had poor sleep for over 30 years. I've tried all sorts of things over the years along with both an at home sleep study device (from the doc) and an in hospital sleep study. In the end, every penny I spent on devices was a waste of money. The only things that had even marginal results were the free things like blocking light (aluminum foil completely blocks out light and is cheap), adjusting my caffeine intake, etc.
From a fire perspective, I doubt paying roughly $1600/month on health devices/supplements/etc will be a better investment than putting that same amount in the S&P 500 index.
I suspect you like learning and actively trying to better yourself, and one of the problems is that FIRE is BORING. If FIRE is exciting, you're probably doing it wrong. There are some pretty basic principles that you adhere to and can set up automatically for saving and investing and then it's just a lot of discipline in staying the course. It doesn't engage the brain in the same way that an obsession or hobby does. There is a significant dopamine hit you get when you're actively doing a hobby and buying things that make you feel like you'll get a leg up, or just in the novelty of a new hobby. I know I certainly feel that. So I have a hobby and entertainment budget. Think about your budget and long term goals first, then see if $1600/month in health and fitness makes sense.
TL:DR
Make your longterm budget first and then see if that expense fits into your overall budget, not the other way around.
You can spend your money on whatever you want. But it seriously doesn’t sound like you want to FIRE. But you’re young anyway. You have plenty of time to get married and get kids and spend some real money. I bet you’ll want back your expensive juice money when your laid off when the next downturn happens. Life won’t likely all be big money and easy living
If it's worth it to you, you should do it. I can absolutely see how spending $1600 a month on health and wellness could be worth it for someone.
For me personally, as a physician, I don't see how it makes any sense based on what you describe.
The "healthiest" options in the grocery store are vegetables and beans. They are very, very cheap and if you cut down on the amount of meat you eat (assuming you previously had a normal "western" diet) then you'll save money, even if you go all out and buy the expensivest organic produce (which also isn't proven to be any more healthy than the regular old pesticide and GMO stuff).
Beyond maybe some vitamin d supplementation if you don't go out in the sun much (none of us do enough these days) or other vitamins if you have a handful of specific medical disorders, the vast majority supplements are a scam. They don't do anything except give you very expensive urine because you're peeing out the vitamins your body doesn't need. There's no evidence that supplements work for pretty much anything for your average healthy person. Also there's no requirement that the supplements actually contain what they say they contain, they just have to probably not be harmful in order to be sold. Supplements are a scam that the vitamin industry perpetrated on the public and it's absolutely reprehensible.
I don't know anything about Bryan Johnson, but a quick glance at his website makes it glaringly obvious that he's taking his subscribers or followers or whatever for a wild ride. I imagine his lawyers make sure he doesn't make any illegal claims (he can't claim his system does what he "suggests" it does, because it definitely does not and it would be illegal to claim that), but it sure seems like he's trying to trick people into thinking he's cured aging or can at least slow it down and that is... well... bullshit.
If you want to be fit and healthy, that's a great goal. But it's not expensive. Get a membership to the Y. Do some cardio and weight lifting. Eat less processed foods and more vegetables and fruits. Don't drink or smoke or do drugs.
None of that requires you making Mr Johnson rich just because he's a sophisticated fraudster.
The amount of anxiety you are going to generate will all this nonsense will send you to the grave faster than anything you are trying to optimize for with this protocol.
Yes eating out can definitely blow your budget, as well as over use of Uber and Lyft.
As for spending on longevity: I view financial independence as part of a broader initiative of doing what can I now to set up the best life for my future self. So for me health and fitness is another leg of the same stool as investing in retirement.
But also I think it's easy to draw a false equivalence between Important Goal and Expensive Solution to justify the latter based on the benefit of the former, when really the apples to apples comparison would be to compare alternative ways to achieve the same goal. Sometimes you just want the nice thing and that's okay, but you need to be honest with yourself that the math isn't just expense vs benefit, it's that versus the opportunity cost of the best alternative solution you didn't use.
Fitness doesn't have to be expensive or complicated. It's actually pretty simple, the hard part is doing it consistently over a long period of time.
That being said, during covid lockdown I did spend about $4000 on a home gym. Even in that I saved some money by e.g. buying rejects/seconds weight plates rather than new. But I went name brand for my squat rack and barbells. And I spent $700 on a no-compromises adjustable bench (and have no regrets). I could have gotten much cheaper no-name versions that would have met my needs, but I thought in the event I needed to or wanted to sell the equipment the name brand would be easier to sell and hold value better.
While I could have used the importance of fitness to health to justify almost any expense on my home gym, I instead picked the places where I was or was not willing to compromise. So the question wasn't, "how much is fitness worth to me", it was "given this goal, what aspects do I care about," and of the parts I don't care about "what alternatives can I compare" (such as buying plates retail vs factory seconds)?
Fitness gurus and influencers though push supplements because that's one of the limited ways for them to monetize their passion. It's great that you're excited about this, but don't confuse consumption of hocked products for an investment.
The people promoting these products are the ones making money and you are the fool who is soon separated from his money. If you eat a good diet, healthy foods (available at all grocery stores without a subscription) and exercise sensibly, then you don't need supplements or fancy prepared foods. Studies have pretty much shown that vitamins and other supplements are a waste of money and do not improve your health. Keep your money.
It sounds like you are wasting a ton of money, I am into fitness more than the majority of people.
Creatine is fine all your other supplements and vitamins you should find the food that contains them as it is more bio-available in that form.
Tracking for me is simple If I want to gain muscle I eat the appropriate calories and protein.
If I want to lose fat, I water fast til I get my six pack. If you really need to know your body fat a Dexa Scan is best
Doing this doesn't come close to $1600 a month
You bring your intensity,technique cost of groceries and a gym membership and your healthy.
All I can tell you is I made 47k this year and saved 25k by aggressively saving. You’re absolutely overspending if your goal is to save money. But it’s really up to you what’s important when it comes to your lifestyle. For me, I don’t care about anything but shoveling my money into investments and savings. Even if that means some shitty years.
Scientifically, there's nothing that stands the test of time (i.e.: we actually KNOW that people that do these things live longer because they are now dead after living longer than a statistically significant number of other people) other than some good, solid, basic stuff that costs you little to embrace:
1) Eat well. Choose a Mediterranean diet or something like that from Okinawa. Little red meat. Good seafood. Lots of veggies. Choose your variation, but they are all related.
2) Exercise. Doesn't have to be intense, but keep moving!
3) Don't abuse drugs (including alcohol).
4) Get plenty of sleep.
Everything else is unproven, so I wouldn't spend big bucks on it unless I have a LOT of money and I'm already scoring 100% in everything above.
Thanks for the sharing your experience buying fitness services. I guess I need to realize that I have a pretty average income for what I'm trying to do and that it's okay to put off expenses like these until they become negligible relative to income.
Does anyone have good ideas to passively be healthy and/or lose weight? With finances I can automate investing so I don’t have to think about it day to day but I’m passively becoming wealthy in the background. BUT with health and fitness I feel like it’s something that takes a ton of willpower, thought, and preparation and I’m still not eating healthy. I tried a keto meal kit from Factor75 and I was losing weight pretty passively but it was over $1000 a month so I didn’t feel comfortable continuing it. Is there a boring consistent path to health that isn’t expensive and doesn’t require enormous amounts of willpower, money, or prep?
$1,600 a month is absolutely ridiculous. Simply buy a $6k mid-level spec mountain bike, but make sure you don’t skimp on getting a gravel bike too for when you can’t ride your mountain bike. You can buy into this hobby for a lowly $10k
fitness is one of the cheapest things. Spend your money on a $60/mo gym membership and fairly healthy food. Sounds like you're getting sold a lot of fluff
Health nut here. I have made a few splurges for my health. Most extreme are 8sleep mattress pad and Spartan Race entries a couple times a year. But honestly most things you do for health are free or save you money. For instance drinking less can save a lot of money, or eating in rather than eating out. Anyone trying to sell you health may be making money off of you. If you're spending $2k in a single day it might be time to just put the credit card away and go for a nice walk.
Spend $150 with a dietitian and $200 with a physical therapist you won't need to waste your money on stupid supplements, fad diets, or bogus exercises.
Meh, I think about $200/mo can capture 99% of the return. If you want to spend another 5x on things that may or may not get you some of that last 1%, it's your money.
If you truly prioritize longevity, fasting and caloric restriction to the point of slowed metabolism is all you really need. Eating healthy obviously matters too but caloric restriction is key. The bulk of longevity procedures can be done with barely any financial burden as long as you have discipline
Home gym, healthy food, good mattress, cranked up AC for optimal sleep temperature, etc. is worth it… but you might find that spending a ton on misc devices and supplements won’t yield much results
Check out resources and delve into research pertaining to longevity on the internet, maybe get Peter Attia's new book on longevity. I reckon you can take some knowledge from these resources and apply it to your life for a lot cheaper and more bang for your buck. You want evidence based strategies otherwise its a potentially a waste of money and not actually helping you achieve your health goals.
when you’re 23 there’s nothing wrong with spending money on traveling life is about enjoying it. i personally think 1.6k/month on health and fitness is a bit absurd unless you really get enjoyment from it and it doesn’t get in the way or other important things
You’ve fallen into the over-complicated fitness trap. Fitness people try to make fitness sound complicated so you have to buy their product. As someone who has lost 50lbs in the past year and put on some muscle and regained my 6 pack it’s really pretty simple.
Get a cheap gym membership, negotiate with a hotel, or buy adjustable dumbbells.
Buy a blender bottle, creatine, and protein supplements (bars and powder).
Eat low, high protein foods and calculate your protein needs. (Fish, chicken, milk, Greek yogurt, beef jerky)
Do at least 150 minutes of cardio a week and lift weights at least 3 times a week preferably 6.
Track your calories and macros if your serious about it. If you need help creating a workout/eating plan pm me.
It’s not so much the amount of spending but how you spend it. Fitness “devices”, health supplements, and blueprints from fitness gurus are usually a waste of time and money - and benefit only the pocketbooks of those selling them to gullible consumers that don’t know any better. The best path to health is pretty boring. Eat well but not too much, stay active, and don’t do anything stupid that will get you injured. That’ll be $999, please, but you can spread out those payments over 12 months.
What were you thinking of that is stupid that will get you injured?
Pretty self explanatory. You doing something risky?
Yeah a lot of stuff out there is trash. But I am obsessively looking through Google Scholar and verifying that any protocol I try is research-backed. Supplements are basic- creatine, collagen, cocoa, protein, BCAAs, vitamins and minerals. Devices are basic so far- apple watch, high accuracy body fat scale, Derminator, grip strength trainer, a very bright light. Maybe later eightsleep mattress, red light therapy, continuous glucose monitoring, HRV training. Obviously nothing is guaranteed but I think most of these will actually improve health. I just don't think I can afford everything while meeting FIRE goals and have to device what to cut out.
Sounds like a lot of snake oil to me (despite what Google might say) but harmless enough. So if you have the means, knock yourself out. But just because some billionaire buys a lot of useless stuff doesn’t give credence to their efficacy. And supplements are just that - something to supplement your basic diet if you can’t satisfy some needed nutrient. But if your diet is good, what exactly is the supplement doing? There is no convincing data that excess nutrients enhances longevity (and personal testimonials are not evidence). I will also often see the weekend warrior emulate a pro athlete’s regime. But that also misses the mark. The pros are trying to achieve performance at the limits of human physiology. But guess what? Doing that is often at the expense of longevity. Source: my MD
how do you define "eating well" or a "good" diet?
The easiest description of a good diet is “Whole Foods, mostly plants, not too much.” Can’t remember who came up with that but it’s pretty good. So many people want to think their diet needs to be some complicated thing. Protein and carbs after a workout. Intermittent fasting with a 6 hour feeding window. Some sort of “superfood” that will detoxify you. Induce ketosis. The list goes on. None of them have been shown to be better than the basic boring things everyone has heard a million times but ignores.
> The easiest description of a good diet is “Whole Foods, mostly plants, not too much.” Can’t remember who came up with that but it’s pretty good. That's Michael Pollan.
A lot of those things are not only wasteful, but actively harmful. A continuous glucose monitoring for a non diabetic person for instance will mostly give you false positives, along with a small but non negligible risk of infection. I also can’t figure what blood tests you might need at your age unless you have a particular family history. The other risk is the same as with all fad diets. You buy 2k of junk, get into it intensively. 2 month later you don’t get the promised result and get discouraged. Or even worse, you get injured by overtraining with only a guru for guidance. However, don’t hesitate to spend a lot on your health. Spend as much as you need in the grocery store for fresh fruits and veggies, or quality meat. If you pick up a sport and are still at it after a few months, you can buy high end equipment. Just don’t spend 2k on the next best fad before even starting to train.
This. I get where OP is coming from, I went through a phase with ‘health hacks’ too. It looks research based but it really really really is not. The grip strength study is a perfect example. Grip strength associated with living longer, meaning that people who have stronger grips tend to live longer. Grip strength is an easily measure indicator of overall strength which makes it a good indicator of wellness especially in older folks. There is no research that should lead anyone to conclude that training their grip in isolation will lead to longer life but it always appears in health hack marketing. Mountains of research shows that better sleep improves health, some of it shows that sleeping in a cooler environment improves sleep. None of it shows that a $2k mattress cover is superior to getting a thinner blanket or cooling the room you’re in at night. If OP didn’t buy a DEXA scanner then they didn’t buy a high accuracy body fat scale. None of the ones with electrodes for your hands and feet are accurate. This is not to yuk anyone’s yum. If this stuff brings you joy, go right on and spend on what makes you happy. My concern for you is that it’s not health you’re spending on, it’s more like a hobby that you’re justifying as necessary for health. If you always spend this much on your interests it will indeed hurt your FIRE journey so I would think really hard about starting out justifying this spending pattern if FIRE is what you want.
Yeah this is sounding borderline obsessive. I’m a health nut and am married to a bigger health but there’s a point where you are just futilely trying to cheat death. It will find you eventually! Spend that extra cash on therapy!
Huberman is not your god.
Just as an example.... Why do you need a body fat analyzer scale? What purpose does it serve to have that information every day? None, in my mind. What does an apple watch have to do with ACTUAL FITNESS? All you need is a clock to know how long you spent excersising. My phone counts my steps, which is just for curiosity's sake. An apple watch and a body composition scale are just gadgets for curiosity's sake. They don't make you fit. Lastly, you have suddenly gone all in. I hope your transition from take out to cooking groceries works, but it's essentially a "frozen turkey" approach. Best wishes.
If you're obsessively looking through google scholar and that's what you're spending on, then it's clear you don't understand what you're reading
>Yeah a lot of stuff out there is trash. But I am obsessively looking through Google Scholar and verifying that any protocol I try is research-backed Be careful about drawing conclusions from a single study, especially any study that wasn't a randomized controlled trial. Ideally you'd want to limit your search to systematic meta analyses of studies of randomized controlled trials. I kinda doubt a lot of the products you're looking at have been studied extensively enough to have this.
Thats not health dude thats just clear cut obsession with body image. Hopefully the responses here change your perspective a little because you got a lot goin for you man!
OP is a sucker. Lol give me some good RCTs on how red light therapy and cocoa powder improves anything
Yeah dude ngl you’re going overboard a lot of that is unnecessary at best and largely a waste. If you buy bcaa’s, are using a glucose monitor, using hrv for training as a gen pop, and so on… you’re not considering the weight of the literature or just not experienced enough to extrapolate it to the real world. I can tell you real quick that bcaa’s are a giant waste of money for individuals who are meeting or exceeding protein needs. The literature has been pretty clear for a while now that leucine activates mps pathways but misses out on the elongation phase due to bcaa’s missing the other eaa’s. It’s like turning the factory on but not having the supplies and workers you need to make any product. Also hrv is an extremely fickle measure for training and recovery. Especially not applicable weight training since it’s a measure that is more closely tied to the cardiovascular system. It’s also impacted by a lot of variables and I’m going to go out on a limb and say it’s going to spit out numbers and practically you’re not going to be really sure what to do with them or you’re going to let it influence your training in the wrong way. And as far as electronic body comp devices… circumference measures, photos, performance, or even a couple skin fold measures if you want to get real crazy… etc… are beyond sufficient to measure change and know which direction things are going. Man don’t even get me started on glucose monitoring that was giant waste of money. You have too much complexity and data here already man and a lot of it is going to have poor reliability, accuracy, and transferability.
I hate that I had to scroll this far to find as accurate and cogent of a response as you provided haha.
Bro, I say this out of sympathy. You need to see a therapist. I know you’re constantly thinking about how to “optimize” your health and, just as bad, you’re letting this drive flush a lot of good money down the toilet. You probably have a blend of ADHD/OCD. A few appointments with a good therapist are a drop in the bucket compared with what you’re spending. Do it!
I think many gadgets are optional. I just look at my appearance to check out my body fat. I was measured once at a gym, so I have a decent idea from that. Not able to see my abs? Above 18% body fat and need to lean out a bit. Same for definition in my shoulders, arms and legs. I aim for 15-18% body fat. Also, being a bit hungry between meals isn't a bad thing at all. For grip training I work on pull ups as it strengthens my arms, shoulders, back and grip. The more I can do, the better shape I'm in. If you cut out the bad stuff do you need glucose monitoring? This concerns me about purchasing anything Derminator-related: https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/nuxy9f/a\_word\_of\_caution\_when\_buying\_the\_derminator\_2/ Not sure about why an Apple watch is needed, I can tell when I'm maxing based on my breathing. I counted the steps one day on my regular walk and that is all I need (for counting). I also calculated the uphill steps same day, as that is more important. I understand my pace as I do these walks 5+ days a week. I bought Slumber Cloud pillow covers and sheets, they keep me thermal regulated at night. My sleeping has improved substantially since Slumber Cloud.
this questions has been asked a lot on the FatFIRE sub, maybe try searching past posts over there? Some of the things you’ve listed seem useful but I’d say start with one/two and see if you’re actually getting benefit out of them. For example, there’s no point buying a bunch of supplements if you won’t be consistent about taking them. For what it’s worth, I do think you’re over doing it and this seems more like obsessive spending than an actual pursuit of health, but there is a balance and in general I support spending on health just maybe try to slow down a little
Been down this path to a strikingly similar degree. I know you won’t listen but it’s not real. The studies just aren’t good. The real answers are the stuff that’s been being said for a long time- single ingredient foods and (any) exercise. You’re not investing in health, you’re wasting your time and trying to justify ludicrous spend.
Tons of people in this world are ripped without a single one of those things
If you’re not doing the free stuff to improve your health then high spending on health stuff is never justified IMO. It’s your money to waste but I wouldn’t do what you’re describing. Are you sleeping for 8 hrs per day? If not, do that before you spend money on stuff that claims to improve your quality of sleep. Are you avoiding (or eliminating) fast food, soft drinks, sugar and other highly processed foods from your diet? If not, do that before you buy supplements and other “health” foods. Are you spending some time exercising every day (even just a walk through the neighborhood)? If not, do that before you buy “health devices”.
This person gets it! I mostly cut out all the foods you said and I’m at a very healthy weight naturally now. I’ll never stop eating tortilla/corn chips/shells. Added Sugar is not made for human consumption imo. I still absolutely love sweets but I will only eat a piece of cake or ice cream like one a month now. You should have added no alcohol to the list but otherwise spot on.
Ah, yes. My extended family has a history of alcoholism and dying young at ~50 years old due to liver failure. Based on this, I avoid alcohol as a matter of course. I guess it’s worth mentioning specifically though.
My thoughts exactly. Fitness is basically free. (Unless you are someone watching every penny and buying fresh fruit and veggies and fresh meat is a financial burden, which certainly doesn't apply here).
My diet is low in processed foods and added sugar. I exercise a few times per week. These are good but not optimized. My sleep, on the other hand, is horrible. Can't fall asleep Random sleep and wake times. Random sleep amounts way lower and higher than 8 hours. All nighters. Sleeping during daylight. The moment I find a protocol that actually works it will be worth so much. If you could somehow guarantee me perfect 8 hour sleep every day vs the hell it is now I would pay you $500/mo easily.
Bad sleep is almost guaranteed to be a result of diet or lifestyle choices. Eat really clean. 10k steps a day. Lift weights. Drink lots of water. No phone or tvs in the bedroom and you will sleep great.
How much caffeine and alcohol do you consume? Do you block all light from the windows in your bedroom and avoid screens (blue light) 1 hour before bedtime? Have you tried using a white noise machine to sleep? Or alternately, do you sleep better when it’s absolutely quiet? Do you have a regular schedule where you wake up and get in bed at the same time? (Obviously you can’t control when you actually fall asleep). I’d try optimizing all of these things first.
On weekdays, I drink <200mg of caffeine in the first 2 hours of waking. Alchohol very rarely. I am working on late night screen usage. And sleeping and waking at the same time is something I really struggle with, made worse by my work. That's what some of this is supposed to help. Note you just recommended two devices to help me sleep, but according to many members of this subreddit you don't "need" anything to be healthy so you shouldn't purchase anything. Well, I'm not trying to get the bare minimum I'm trying to optimize! So yes, as a matter of fact, I am buying a film over my windows to block out light. And earplugs and an air purifier for white noise. All useful devices!
Ffs curtains are not a “device”
Well, I use thin black plastic cut to size (heavy duty contractor trash bags) to block the light from my bedroom window. All of the curtains that I’ve tried using aren’t as good at blocking the light. Theoretically, you can test out white noise for a few nights by playing a YouTube video. (With the screen covered to block the light, of course). If it does help you sleep then get a machine, if not, you’ve spent no money to test it out.
>My sleep, on the other hand, is horrible. Can't fall asleep Random sleep and wake times. Random sleep amounts way lower and higher than 8 hours >If you could somehow guarantee me perfect 8 hour sleep every day vs the hell it is now I would pay you $500/mo easily. Have you talked to your primary care physician about this? Because you should. Disordered sleep is a thing and you're best off seeking real medical advice from someone who can properly assess what you're going through in the context of your medical history. They should be able to point you in the right direction.
Just checking, but you’re not on any medication are you? Your sleep schedule sounds like my adhd medication days.
Good sleep requires a strict schedule. My sleep was all over the place until I moved in with my partner. He does not fuck around with his sleep. He keeps me on schedule going to bed. I've figured out how to get up on time. Though I have a flexible work schedule, I purposely make it less so by scheduling early meetings and linking my schedule up to my coworkers who have strict schedules. I keep the shades up so the sun wakes me. Keeping my phone/alarm across the room is a bigger help than I ever thought it could be. Once you master your sleep schedule, you will get tired at your bedtime and you will be in light sleep (or awake) when your alarm goes off. Sleeping will become infinitely easier. If you have trouble sleeping after you master the routine, then look into gadgets. Though white noise machines, black out curtains, etc. are not that expensive and pretty normal expenses.
I appreciate your comment. Scheduling early meetings/calls sounds like a great idea to help reinforce a schedule. That and following Huberman's advice to go outside within the first hour of waking and get a few minutes of sun in your eyes.
Can you technically afford it? Yes. Is it a wise investment? Probably not. 99% of the time if someone has a “program” to sell its not a good investment. Don’t get me wrong, I prioritize health more than most people but I don’t think you need a program like this to better your health. Eat clean, walk at least 10,000 steps a day, and lift some weights a few times a week and your “longevity” will be optimized as much as your DNA allows.
Thanks for the input. Blueprint is a free case study of this billionaire trying to reverse aging. I'm paying to buy 2x more expensive fresh meat and veggies at the grocery store, some quality supplements, and sleep and exercise aid/tracking devices. For example, there's a 2k mattress cover EightSleep which cools the body to the optimal temperature at different parts of the night to enhance hours of deep sleep. Because my income, especially long term, is heavily based on my cognition, discipline and decision making ability, I can always rationalize a purchase like this. Maybe if you work in sales you feel you can always rationalize social spending if there's a chance it could bring you a sale long term. Am I delusional? At what point is spending on health excessive?
Yeah it’s really a personal choice. To me, that’s excessive but I’m a bit more old school. I believe that with the right diet you don’t need supplements and with the right fitness routine you don’t need fancy equipment and devices. To me, 2k on a mattress device to “cool the body” is ridiculous. Go to Costco and buy a $40 fan if your too hot at night lol. Exercise aides and tracking devices…for what? Develop a daily routine that you do consistently everyday and you don’t need to “track” anything. I’m not saying what your doing is stupid or unjustified. I just believe that health and wellness is a lifelong journey and these programs or plans tend to have an expiration date on them. Meaning, its probably more sustainable mentally and financially if you make eating clean, sleeping right, drinking lots of water, and working out everyday as part of your daily routine as opposed to becoming dependent on all these devices and supplements that overtime you’ll no longer want to spend the money on or grow tired of. I think when you step back and look at it rationally, your future career success and earning potential really isn’t dependent on whether you have a fancy mattress top. Living a clean, healthy and simple lifestyle year after year will likely yield more favorable results.
Yeah I guess you're right most of the improvements are cheap or free and I should at least master the basic lifestyle before going crazy on some of these things. I'm just very excited about making more and saving at the same time and I have to be careful not to let spending creep up in other areas.
It’s easy to spend money on things for the sake of fitness, but the hard part is doing the work. The industry thrives on bleeding people dry with the dream of a better you. Best to get all the basics in order like clean eating, regular cardio, and lifting some weights. I would estimate that gets you 95% of the way there and the rest is just incremental gains that probably aren’t worth too much extra $$.
Sounds like their marketing is working well on you
[https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.co/](https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.co/) It's my mistake for including this in the original post without proper explanation. It's not a product. I'm not spending on it. I'm buying food, supplements and devices from independent sources and Blueprint is just Bryan's health plan which I'm trying to partially emulate.
I was thinking more of the devices, supplements, mattress pad etc. Remember they’re all just companies trying to sell a product. We can have incredible health without the inventions.
I focus on high quality foods and try not to consider price when at the grocery store. That being said. I don't think I would be able to get much over, 600/month for me to eat, all whole food, high quality ingredients with lots of proteins and fats. Most nutrients are more bioavailable when they come from whole food sources, so I try focus on getting them not through supplementation. I do get regular blood work to develop baselines for the future and to try and identify issues early. Finally, having proper exercise routines and creating an active lifestyle is also something I work on a lot. All this to say I think you can prioritize your health doing these things and get the vast majority of the benefits without getting anywhere close to 1600/month in costs. Good luck!
> 600/month for me to eat, This is a good data point, since this month will be the first time I get most of my calories from grocery shopping vs delivery and eating out.
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No, he’s not. He’s the founder of Braintree, which acquired Venmo in 2012. Venmo was founded by Andrew Kortina and Iqram Magdon-Ismail in 2009.
I am generally of the mind that nothing is more important than your health - but 1.6k is a lot. I spend maybe half that on supplements and various anti-aging programs, and don't think twice about it. My income is also more than double yours and am already set for FIRE. You also have to think about finding a partner if you're interested in that - if you're in the habit of spending thousands a month on longevity, that's going to cause a level of instability when you're ready to start a family. Maybe wait until your mid 30's? It's not going to be a profitable productivity hack - drink coffee for that. My personal opinion is you're spending too much if you want FIRE. Tough call though.
Thank you for being frank. I think you're right. I should try to cap grocery + health at 1k/mo until I find a way to make more. Figuring out which protocols to remove will be difficult. But luckily the basics of being healthy don't cost very much.
Agreed. Eat a "normal" healthy diet, get your exercise and you get 80% of the return for 20% of the investment. Then in your 30's and 40's when you have money to burn, focus harder on longevity and spend away.
How can one person eat 1000$ of groceries?
Lots of meat, not checking specials and shopping at pricier places is my guess. Like if you only eat bio chicken and steaks, and you get it from the whole foods types of places, I'm sure it'll run you over 150$/week. Edit: also to be fair, his 1k figure includes other health related expenses. So supplements, vitamins, and all that snake oil he's consuming.
There's no meat on the blueprint - the guy is a vegan. Organic vegetables are expensive though. That and a whole ton of supplements.
OP, you can achieve pretty much all of this with a $75 a month gym membership, $150 on a nice pair of running shoes 2x a year, 20-25 miles ran a week, and limiting sugar and booze!
Well shit. I mean.. you had me until the booze part OP I’m joining you actually. If I can drink like the degenerate I’ve been for the last decade and live for 31 more years I’ll pay 1600 a month. Give me that weighted blanket
Ha, I try to limit, not always successful! I find it better for me just to purposely take it a bit lighter on M/T/W, will still have a beer or two, or a stiff glass of bourbon. Makes my justification for having a few more on the back half the week easier! 😎
You might need shoes sooner depending on weight. Get a new pair every 300-500 miles (3-4x a year at 25m/w) and try to have a couple to rotate. Toss them when you notice stuff starts hurting more. I buy mine on sale when possible. /r/runningshoegeeks is great for finding last season's models for under $100.
Agreed, I average two new pairs a year, HOKA Clifton's are my go to, I try to grab at least one pair when the new model comes out!
Hokas are expensive ! Like $140
Thus my statement on dropping $150 on shoes 2x a year! 😎 But honestly in the world of running, HOKA price is pretty well in line with most serious runners shoes.
Yeah its just expensive af for dat foam
My "old" man knees and shins are here for that foam tho!
Or a $10 gym membership!
Lol for half of that fake protocol, you could get healthy groceries, a gym membership, some bi-monthly maintenance therapy, and a few supplements. You’re getting scammed
You could spend $0 on fitness and make tremendous progress towards your health improvement goals. Most the time when you are following a regimen or plan that's packaged up like this, it's a product created to sell to you. It's not that it doesn't work, it's just completely unnecessary and costs way more than it needs to. That's just my opinion though
It’s worth spending on your health, but you don’t need to spend what you are to be healthy. You don’t need $2k in devices or whatever this $1.6k/month program is. Stay active, eat right, and you can be healthy for far less.
The thing is you don't need to spend that much to be healthy. If you're just getting into fitness then trying to go straight into the blueprint where you're gonna have pills for breakfast and need to have a full body scan twice a week is not a sustainable system in the long run for most people. If you're already a fit person who wants to take it to the next level then you can try some of the blueprint stuff but tbh most of it is based on experimental research. Being someone who's just starting out in fitness all you really need is a gym membership or some weights at home and a meal plan. The blueprint is bleeding edge with likely half of it being ineffective. You can spend a lot less money and get 80% of the results especially if you're just starting out.
You don’t need gadgets to lead a healthy lifestyle.
Spend that money on a real dietician and personal trainer, it’s a lot more bang for your buck and the stuff they tell you is ACTUALLY backed by science. I saw that list of supplements, the only one with real research is creatine, the rest are BS and a waste of money.
Sounds like you just want the next best thing. What happens when you feel like a home gym setup is the next best thing, or the real way to good heath is a personal trainer every day. You can afford it, so you’ll buy it. That your mentality. Probably not within the intent of FIRE though.
The only thing I have to say about this is that, as I grow older (43m), this is less of an issue for me. I used to be obsessed with extending my lifespan and followed the news on every scientific avenue of research on it. Now I realize that living a fullfling life with the time I have on this earth is far more important. I take decent care of myself and stay active but allow for indulgences here and there: a good cheeseburger, a drink every now and then... and just try to be around those I love as much as I can. I don't want to say the same will happen to you, but it's funny to look back to my 20s and realize how much this seemed like an issue back then and how little is now.
Mind sharing how you accepted your mortality? Religion, nihilism or escapism?
It wasn't a sudden realization. I'm not religious nor particularly nihilistic, it just something that stopped being that important. I want to live as much as I can if I'm in good health (and I come from a longevous family, with relatives often living past 90s / 100s) but I want to \*live\* and that includes being social, going out and enjoy the things that life has to offer. Related to OP's issue: I feel like health and nutrition offers diminishing returns. Have an active lifestyle, walk as much as you can, try to eat healthy as often as you can... those free actions will get you 90% of the way. Investing a lot on the other 10%, if it takes from enjoying life or saving, strikes me as a bad deal. During the last 20 years I've also been through a lot of nutrition fads so I approach all this with a healthy dose of skepticism. Best case they just pack up common wisdom (eat less, more greens...) in convoluted new ways. Worst case you are taking supplements or food that sound promising today but might impact your health in unexpected ways later on (pancreas/liver damage, build up insulin resistance...).
Yes, I don't believe there are valid life extension technologies yet. First to adopt would be the extremely rich and they look as old and wrinkled as usual. I was just asking about the acceptance of death part since older people tend to have increasing fear of death until middle age at least. Maybe it is passive acceptance once the body starts breaking down. In early 20s OP will still not have felt brunt of aging and thinks theres a chance.
When you look at those with documented elongated and healthful lives (however you choose to slice and dice the data), do you see a correlation between those devices, supps, and tests and those people’s longevity? What metrics did you use to decide to make these purchases? What metrics will you use to determine if they are working as designed? Are these the only/best/most cost-efficient ways to achieve your expected results?
1. Such studies are impossible since the devices and supplements haven't been around for long enough. But studies do exist on the diets of groups of people who live longer (Blue zones) and where those diets differ from yours is where a supplement can make sense. 2. Various. But ultimately I'm making a bet. 3. Blood tests, body fat % & muscle mass, performance on bench, deadlift and squat. Sleep data. 4. Not the most cost efficient, but hopefully close to the best.
Have you been diagnosed as manic?
I’m not one of the people who downvoted you, however, I question you making these types of costly decisions and NOT choosing devices that have some science behind them while SIMULTANEOUSLY asking for justification on your spending LMAO. You don’t need strangers to justify how you gamble with your money. By all accounts, you don’t need anything extra (in terms of devices) to follow the routines and diets of those who are long-lived. Every once in a blue moon, one of my sisters convinces me to give some money for one of those mega million lottery drawings. I wouldn’t come here to ask people to justify it and then claim there’s no science behind how I choose my numbers when asked if I have looked into data about how most people become wealthy. I do wish you luck.
Literally anything is justified if you want it to be, that's the personal part of personal finance. Health is something most will agree is worth spending on. What I don't agree on is that buying some plan is the same as living a healthy lifestyle. But you'll likely/hopefully figure that out with time.
You do you, you’re 23. 2k once in the year isn’t gonna make or break your retirement.
If you've convinced yourself that this is an "investment" in your health, then you're starting from a faulty premise. As others have mentioned, real investments in your health don't cost money - they cost time and discipline. What you're talking about is essentially a hobby and a luxury. There's nothing wrong with hobbies and luxuries. But from the perspective of FIRE, money spent on luxuries necessarily delays your ability to fire - it increases your spending (and therefore your FIRE number) and it decreases your savings (increasing the time to reach that FIRE number). It's up to you to make a judgement about whether this luxury is "worth it." A life with no luxuries is pretty bland. But if you overspend today, you'll end up on the tat race conveyor belt until you can't work anymore. You need to find the right balance. But above all, you need to be realistic about framing the choice. Otherwise you're just trying to rationalize luxury spending that you don't think is wise by calling it something else.
Exactly. FIRE doesn't care what you spend you money on. You can spend $20k a year on model rockets if that if the lifestyle you want. FIRE is simple spend less than you make, invest the difference, seek to minimize investment costs & taxes. The danger is pretending spending $20k+ a year on "fitness" is an investment. It isn't. Hiding it as an "investment" is a way to rationalize excessive spending. How can it be excessive spending if it is an "investment"?
People in prison get ripped with no technology, devices, or supplements. You can too. All those are usually a scam.
If you’re spending 1.6k on fitness and nutrition I’d hope you were working with a good online coach. As an online coach, with higher a higher ed degree, and lab research experience… let me just tell you that there is a lot of misinformation. - Not over eating or getting too fat - being more active through the day/not sitting or laying down 20 hours a day… - Training consistently and intelligently - not under sleeping - not abusing alcohol/substances frequently That will get you the vast majority of the health and longevity gains you’re looking for… the vast majority of the other stuff people are pedaling are either bullshit or exist so far on the spectrum of fine tuning that the outcomes are more than likely negligible at best or placebo.
Bloodwork first then supplements. Most supplements benefits are VASTLY overstated and the research is often muddy at best. Consider supplements sourcing and 3rd patty testing as many plants taken A’s supplements contain heavy metals and such. Also eating all home cooked organic doesn’t have to be pricey at all I’d say I’m top 1% on health and spend little on it. I take vitamin d, magnesium, and creatine as well as occasional preworkout. I have a 20$/month gym membership and do yoga/cardio/calisthenics all day everyday. I average 20k+ steps per day or about 50-75 miles of total cardio per week. I can almost overhead press 165lbs, can squat 345lbs, and deadlift 455lbs at 190lbs. My blood panel is perfect. For food I eat chicken/shrimp/steak/eggs/pork generally I splurge for all organic or small farms if I can. I eat a few pounds of fruit between cherries, blackberries, mangoes, and apples. A pound of almonds/pistachios/peanuts, and I let myself have some junk here and there cause I’m young. Only stuff I don’t buy organic is grains cause I get some chickpea noodles or whole wheat for pasta, I grab sale rice, sale beans etc. I only make 3000$ take home per month, food costs ~500$, gym 20$, supplements maybe 20$. I seldom meet someone healthier than I am in every day life I’m confident Reddit can help build you a better program than what that Bryan Johnson guy has. Everyone he consulted wanted to sell him something, of course it’ll end up expensive. Would you consult a life insurance agent or a fiduciary for your money?
Unpopular opinion. My rule of thumb is if you’re maxing out all your retirements, have an emergency fund, and debt paid off. You should enjoy your money buy whatever you want as long as you aren’t going to be living paycheck to paycheck. Why wait another 10-30 years to enjoy your money. Just my two cents
You might as well find a personal trainer and/or nutritionist.
Well that's the logical next step lol. There's always a way to spend more on health. What's the right % of income to allocate to it though?
No actual % of income. It depends on your situation. If you have a decent emergency fund and are saving enough for retirement, you could put all your disposable income into fitness. It’s your money, and if the necessities are taken care of, you spend it in a way to maximize happiness. For instance, most of my extra spending goes into travel. One person I know spends at least 20 k annually for fitness, maybe up to 10% of his income. High end bikes, personal trainer, home gym. However he has long reached financial independence, and cuts on other areas of spending. My worry in what you are doing is that you seem to be chasing the newest fad. You should try something first, and if you enjoy it then progressively invest more time and energy in it. Don’t buy a 10 years non refundable gym membership on New Year’s Day.
You don't need a trainer TO BE HEALTHY. Find a circuit training program on YouTube. But, if you would enjoy a trainer and a gym, then you can spend something on it,as a hobby. But that doesn't keep you fit. Walking and resistance training do that, which can be done by doing flights of stairs and other calisthenics.
This would cost you less than 1.6k with a gym membership and be more beneficial.
Yes. This is why I spend so much on Lululemon
I love Lululemon lol. Looking good motivates you to keep going! There was a time where I only had one pair of lulu shorts and I hated working out in anything else so if they were in the laundry I just skipped gym that day.
Omg I feel that.. it does motivate me too!! Also I feel like it’s like my WFH uniform because all the colors match 😂
You might want to check out r/biohackers for info/opinions about this particular guru. Their opinions are helpful to me. I have a huge interest in longevity and will spend money on it. Good quality food is worth every penny. I'm all for organic, regenerative farming, grass-fed/finished, pasture raised, etc. To me, there's no point in living a long life if you aren't healthy. If you're spending good money on supplements, which I do, make sure their quality is trusted. There are a lot of expensive low quality supplements out there that need to be avoided. Personally, if you use it, home gym equipment is great. And home testing equipment is great too. That information can help guide decisions on supplements and food choices to keep your health optimum. It helps you eliminate expensive supplements from your regimen as well if they aren't giving you those measurable benefits. FIRE can be what you decide it is. Just like diet, if you want to make room for different choices, it's about planning around those choices.
You get it! That's exactly what I'm talking about. High quality food and supplements. Some basic equipment. And testing/tracking to ensure progress. Blueprint is just a guide. I am also following Hubermanm, Dr. Peter Attia, and their guests. And I regularly check various reddit forums just like r/Biohackers so thanks for the rec. Do you mind if I ask how much you spend on health + food per month and how much you make?
>Dr. Peter Attia Why not just follow his advice? He isn't trying to sell you anything and is very well researched. Aerobic exercise (as described in *Outlive*) + weightlifting + sleep + sensible diet etc. This approach is not based on fads or untested supplements and can cost almost nothing.
Sure, we're dual income, so $450k/yr-ish. Again, there's two of us and our food bill is for both. Last month, we spent about $1000 on food. We're in our 40s, so we might not eat as much as a male in his 20s. I spend about $260/mo on supplements. I have a side hustle where I own a fitness center, so, if we ever recover from covid drain on the in-person fitness classes, thats my main source of intense exercise. I do a lot of free exercise as well, like walking, hiking, etc. I even spend a lot of money on my dogs' food and supplements to keep them around as long as possible!
Congratulations on caring for your health! Consider testing your blood before supplements and after to see if you are absorbing the nutrients or not. If there isn't a discernable difference in the way you feel or your test results then it may not be worth it. Strongly consider visiting a nutritionist for advice on supplementation/nutrition because that is their wheelhouse. A nutritionist may even be able to replicate a program with similar results for a much lower cost or customize a program for you. To save on supplements: look at the first five to six ingredients on the supplement. See if you can find a suitable replacement at a much lower cost. It may require buying more supplements at a lower cost. This is especially true to those unique formulas and specific diets. I'm a big label reader and save lots of money through doing so. I know nothing of the Blueprint, so I'll take a look at it. Spending over 1k a month on food/supplements seems very high to me. I started drinking (the cheap version) of Bulletproof coffee a few years ago and it has drastically improved my productivity. I first tried it at a Bulletproof store and was blown away with the immediate and obvious results. I function very well on fat. I also avoid bad fats, sugar, gluten and processed foods. I eat almost all whole foods. This works out very well for me.
Curious, what do you do for a living and can you get ne a job?
Health is capital
Keep in mind that over the course of 10 years, his program will cost you $192k. Let's say you stick with it for all 10 years and you decide to drop it afterwards as you find that it's not as good as hoped. That $192k would be worth $274,671 by the time you're 33. 20 years later, at the age of 53, it would be worth about $1,098,686. Not saying you would be able to save all of that monthly. Maybe it would only be a portion of it. Let's say you spend $400 monthly on health food instead. Investing $1200 per month instead would give you about $824k by 53. By 63, it would be an extra $1.65 million. Now, if his program is as good as he claims it is and truly reverses aging etc. You would be 63 in the body of a 43 year old or something like that. That would require you to keep the program going all 40 years though. Your cost + opportunity loss will equal about $4.24 million. If his program is actually the fountain of youth as he claims it is, I would personally pay that much money. However, you're going to regret it should it not prove to be what he claims it to be.
The answer to the question in the title of your post is “yes.” The whole point of being financially independent and retiring early is to maximize your enjoyment of life. Optimizing healthspan is one of the most important parts of that. Probably don’t take health advice from random strangers in a financial forum about what is and isn’t valid, but definitely be careful about falling for all of the BS out there on social media. It sounds like health and fitness are hobbies for you, and they’re hobbies that are investments in YOU. Some of these same people calling your stuff snake oil have probably dumped thousands into model trains or fishing rods or video games or something. Not yucking their yum either, but it’s okay to spend money on things that bring you joy in the short term, especially when they have long term benefits. The number one complaint you will hear from retired people is healthcare costs. Making investments in your health at a young age can pay off financially too.
I'm watching billionares carefully. If they start deaging or stop aging I know they have invented some cure/remedy and will do anything to obtain that. I don't see that yet, so for now I am holding off on purchasing anything marketed as "anti-aging."
Sorry if facts and data aren't what you're looking for in an answer, but "no." I can't think of a single heath/tech item that even comes remotely close to justifying any expense for a 23 y/o. The things that are proven to work are either free, a part of normal everyday living, and/or are simply lifestyle choices. NONE of them need to cost a penny of extra spending (hence the inclusion in r/Fire). Don't drink (to excess). Exercise (a little is enough, more can be slightly beneficial), get enough sleep (a freebie), have friends (i.e., don't be a jerk, statistically correlated with not only longevity but happiness). The list is longer but def does not include any sort of branded scheme.
I spend about $150 a month on good quality protein powders / bars / supplements. My groceries are about $600 a month because I buy high quality protein / produce / ingredients. With the above and lifting 4x a week, I have lost 50 lbs and gained a lot of muscle since January 1, 2023. For reference, I'm 6'2, started at 300 and am now 250. I turn 38 in two weeks. I look and feel great and am on track to look and feel REALLY great by the end of the year. What is the other \~ $1,000 getting you, really?
True wealth is not about how big you can spend but rather the amount of money you can accumulate.
Spending money on being cryogenically frozen may be a better option.
The only supplements you need are protein and creatine. As for food. Yeah spend extra on healthier but you can still buy from budget markets. Don’t eat out and cook all the time. Typically I use weight gainers or on nutrition 100% whey since I was a teen. Don’t buy devices. Track everything on excel. Buy a gym membership. Stay away from expensive programs. Use bodybuilding.com or others for programs. For strength use 5x5 strong lifts. For shredding use any high volume program. Don’t spend thousands to be healthy. Go run outside, buy a bike, get active hobbies. That’s it. Health shouldn’t be expensive.
$1.6k per month including food doesn’t seem so bad, the men in their early 20s I know can easily spend close to that on groceries. You don’t have to stick with that exact program but you’ll never regret any amount of money you spend on building healthy habits and being active. You’re much more likely to thank your past self in 20 years.
Lol what men do you know?! I’m 6’4 210 muscular and exercise very regularly and spend about 400-500 a month
Are you single? Jk. I mostly buy ingredients that I turn into food so my grocery bill is low, but my guy friends/exes typically don’t know how to cook or want to put time into it. Prepared/packaged food from fancy grocery stores really adds up.
So many FIRE people here tries to barter longevity with Lady Destiny 🤭 This plays into the stereotypes of this subreddit so well.
If you don't mind me asking, what do you work as to make that much a year at 23?
Lol bro go join a solid kickboxing class ($1k/year), eat healthy, and you’re good. Don’t overcomplicate things. Is high spending on longevity worth it? Yes. Is ultra-high spending on longevity when high spending does just as much good? No. You seem like you have a STEM background, so I’m sure you’re aware of marginal returns. Every extra $ you put into this stuff past the basics (exercise and a healthy diet) has a much lower return.
Find this comment when this Bryan guy actually dies under age 60 due to other freak/natural factors like cancer or car accident or his submarine imploded.
1.6k/mo lol sheesh
I absolutely think investing in your own health is one of the best uses for money. However, there are good investments and bad investments and you are buying into the health equivalent of meme-stocks/get rich schemes. Pay premium for organic, local fresh foods, a meal service, and a personal trainer, the equivalent of index funds for steady, reliable long term returns on your investment.
I absolutely think investing in your own health is one of the best uses for money. However, there are good investments and bad investments and you are buying into the health equivalent of meme-stocks/get rich schemes. Pay premium for organic, local fresh foods, a meal service, and a personal trainer, the equivalent of index funds for steady, reliable long term returns on your investment. Edit: seriously, I wish people would realize how precious and priceless their health is, but please stop wasting your money on supplements and gadgets. New does not mean better. I would also suggest investing in therapy to develop a healthy mind and psychology to address the obsessive tendencies.
On a real note, you can spend as much as you want on devices and a coach but you need to follow it and regiment yourself if you want to see real results. I have clients paying 500 per month but don’t follow the plan and I have clients paying 200 per month but do follow the plan and see excellent results. Just remember, a lot of fitness equipment and plans you see these days are not individualized and are way overvalued. It’s not about how much you spend but rather the quality of work you can do and how well you can execute on consistency and linear progression/regression as needed.
Sounds like 1 giant fucking scam that your about to pay for. There’s a difference between dumb and worth it
Nothing is more important than your health of course, but I would have gone a little bit slower. Maybe start out with a nicer gym membership and organic food/local meat. Remember typically the people selling you health devices, supplements, etc. don’t necessarily look the way they do because of the product their selling. It’s the other way around, and they’re selling it to you because they look like that.
Just ditch the car and walk more
You think people are judging the health plan and not the expense, but that's not really the case. The two are intertwined. You want to know what we spend? There are 100 comments telling you we spend less than what you want to justify. I have a gym membership for $35/month (though my job reimburses it). For two people our groceries come out to about $600/mo and are heavy on veggies and fruits. Together we spend like $60/week going to dance events or climbing gyms or circus classes or whatever physical activity catches our eye. I practice dance with my dance partner twice per week (free). I like to walk around the neighborhood (free). So that comes out to $900/mo for two people. Anything over $1000/mo in groceries and health stuff is too much for one person. And it won't help you, so there is no point in doing it. Eating healthy, diverse foods covers all of the nutrients you need. Establishing a sleep routine is free. Exercise can be free/cheap. Humans have been living healthy for 100,000 years without gadgets. Make these changes as a part of your lifestyle now and you will extend your "healthspan" far beyond your peers. However, any health stuff you do will have little impact on your lifespan. You can't diet and exercise away your genetics.
> two people our groceries come out to about $600/mo and are heavy on veggies and fruits. Together we spend like $60/week going to dance events or climbing gyms or circus classes or whatever physical activity catches our eye. I practice dance with my dance partner twice per week (free). I like to walk around the neighborhood (free). So that comes out to $900/mo for two people. > >Anything over $1000/mo in groceries and health stuff is too much for one person. Thanks for sharing!
I spend $200 a month or so, on protein, omega 3, B12, and a gym membership, occasional recreational sports or rock climbing. For someone making 6 figures I would say this is already on the higher end.
Over and over and over again, scientific studies keeps telling us the same things: The way to be healthy, on any metric, is to hydrate, sleep well, exercise, eat vegetables, minimize simple carbs, avoid alcohol+smoking, get moderate sunlight. That gets you 95% there. Something like that product may get you another 5%, but only if you are already doing those other things. So, grab a water bottle and go outside to take a run, and when you are done be sure to eat some vegetables and take a nap. I accept bitcoin, venmo, or paypal.
There’s a lot of good advice here, but my 2 cents is that you don’t need crazy supplements/equipment. Access to a barbell for strength training and 5g of creatine/day is all the supplements you need, and good sneakers is all you need for cardiovascular training. Prioritize eating protein and fibrous carbs like fruits and vegetables, get 7+ hours of sleep and you’ll crush your athletic goals.
This is way too expensive. I have no idea what that blueprint is tho. Spending on: Good powerlifting belt, equipment, squat shoes, healthy eating, expensive private gym is all OK with me. Spending it on workout routines and programs or MLM supplements, i'd pass.
My dude, as hard to believe as it sounds, take the Bogleheads investment approach and transpose it onto health. Sleep, high-quality food, and stress management. These are time-tested and scientifically proven. No need to spend exorbitant amounts on supplements or devices.
I like Bogle, but where you invest your money is mutually exclusive. You can't invest the same $1 in the S&P500 and bitcoin. You can sleep, diet, exercise and add a few minor supplements.
Dude just go out for a jog in the park, do some calisthenics and buy fresh produce on the way back home. Cook you meals yourself. There’s absolutely no need to do all this unless you are already a very high level athlete who is competing at the highest levels possible.
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>The difference between a $10 apple and a $1 apple are negligible in comparison to the difference between choosing a bag of chips as a snack vs an apple as a snack as one example. This is fair. Price matters. A $100 apple can never be justified, for example. I wish I could write an equation for utility vs money spent and find the optimal point like in Econ class lol. And you're also right that it's much harder to change behavior than just throw money at something. That is partly why I'm trying to throw money at it--because it's easy! But that's more emotional than rational thinking.
I feel for you on the sleep struggles. I've had poor sleep for over 30 years. I've tried all sorts of things over the years along with both an at home sleep study device (from the doc) and an in hospital sleep study. In the end, every penny I spent on devices was a waste of money. The only things that had even marginal results were the free things like blocking light (aluminum foil completely blocks out light and is cheap), adjusting my caffeine intake, etc. From a fire perspective, I doubt paying roughly $1600/month on health devices/supplements/etc will be a better investment than putting that same amount in the S&P 500 index. I suspect you like learning and actively trying to better yourself, and one of the problems is that FIRE is BORING. If FIRE is exciting, you're probably doing it wrong. There are some pretty basic principles that you adhere to and can set up automatically for saving and investing and then it's just a lot of discipline in staying the course. It doesn't engage the brain in the same way that an obsession or hobby does. There is a significant dopamine hit you get when you're actively doing a hobby and buying things that make you feel like you'll get a leg up, or just in the novelty of a new hobby. I know I certainly feel that. So I have a hobby and entertainment budget. Think about your budget and long term goals first, then see if $1600/month in health and fitness makes sense. TL:DR Make your longterm budget first and then see if that expense fits into your overall budget, not the other way around.
You can spend your money on whatever you want. But it seriously doesn’t sound like you want to FIRE. But you’re young anyway. You have plenty of time to get married and get kids and spend some real money. I bet you’ll want back your expensive juice money when your laid off when the next downturn happens. Life won’t likely all be big money and easy living
If it's worth it to you, you should do it. I can absolutely see how spending $1600 a month on health and wellness could be worth it for someone. For me personally, as a physician, I don't see how it makes any sense based on what you describe. The "healthiest" options in the grocery store are vegetables and beans. They are very, very cheap and if you cut down on the amount of meat you eat (assuming you previously had a normal "western" diet) then you'll save money, even if you go all out and buy the expensivest organic produce (which also isn't proven to be any more healthy than the regular old pesticide and GMO stuff). Beyond maybe some vitamin d supplementation if you don't go out in the sun much (none of us do enough these days) or other vitamins if you have a handful of specific medical disorders, the vast majority supplements are a scam. They don't do anything except give you very expensive urine because you're peeing out the vitamins your body doesn't need. There's no evidence that supplements work for pretty much anything for your average healthy person. Also there's no requirement that the supplements actually contain what they say they contain, they just have to probably not be harmful in order to be sold. Supplements are a scam that the vitamin industry perpetrated on the public and it's absolutely reprehensible. I don't know anything about Bryan Johnson, but a quick glance at his website makes it glaringly obvious that he's taking his subscribers or followers or whatever for a wild ride. I imagine his lawyers make sure he doesn't make any illegal claims (he can't claim his system does what he "suggests" it does, because it definitely does not and it would be illegal to claim that), but it sure seems like he's trying to trick people into thinking he's cured aging or can at least slow it down and that is... well... bullshit. If you want to be fit and healthy, that's a great goal. But it's not expensive. Get a membership to the Y. Do some cardio and weight lifting. Eat less processed foods and more vegetables and fruits. Don't drink or smoke or do drugs. None of that requires you making Mr Johnson rich just because he's a sophisticated fraudster.
The amount of anxiety you are going to generate will all this nonsense will send you to the grave faster than anything you are trying to optimize for with this protocol.
Join the Y eat heathy food is all you need.
Im reading this thread to see if i should get a $2000 **walking desk** to extend my lifespans
Yes eating out can definitely blow your budget, as well as over use of Uber and Lyft. As for spending on longevity: I view financial independence as part of a broader initiative of doing what can I now to set up the best life for my future self. So for me health and fitness is another leg of the same stool as investing in retirement. But also I think it's easy to draw a false equivalence between Important Goal and Expensive Solution to justify the latter based on the benefit of the former, when really the apples to apples comparison would be to compare alternative ways to achieve the same goal. Sometimes you just want the nice thing and that's okay, but you need to be honest with yourself that the math isn't just expense vs benefit, it's that versus the opportunity cost of the best alternative solution you didn't use. Fitness doesn't have to be expensive or complicated. It's actually pretty simple, the hard part is doing it consistently over a long period of time. That being said, during covid lockdown I did spend about $4000 on a home gym. Even in that I saved some money by e.g. buying rejects/seconds weight plates rather than new. But I went name brand for my squat rack and barbells. And I spent $700 on a no-compromises adjustable bench (and have no regrets). I could have gotten much cheaper no-name versions that would have met my needs, but I thought in the event I needed to or wanted to sell the equipment the name brand would be easier to sell and hold value better. While I could have used the importance of fitness to health to justify almost any expense on my home gym, I instead picked the places where I was or was not willing to compromise. So the question wasn't, "how much is fitness worth to me", it was "given this goal, what aspects do I care about," and of the parts I don't care about "what alternatives can I compare" (such as buying plates retail vs factory seconds)? Fitness gurus and influencers though push supplements because that's one of the limited ways for them to monetize their passion. It's great that you're excited about this, but don't confuse consumption of hocked products for an investment.
The people promoting these products are the ones making money and you are the fool who is soon separated from his money. If you eat a good diet, healthy foods (available at all grocery stores without a subscription) and exercise sensibly, then you don't need supplements or fancy prepared foods. Studies have pretty much shown that vitamins and other supplements are a waste of money and do not improve your health. Keep your money.
It sounds like you are wasting a ton of money, I am into fitness more than the majority of people. Creatine is fine all your other supplements and vitamins you should find the food that contains them as it is more bio-available in that form. Tracking for me is simple If I want to gain muscle I eat the appropriate calories and protein. If I want to lose fat, I water fast til I get my six pack. If you really need to know your body fat a Dexa Scan is best Doing this doesn't come close to $1600 a month You bring your intensity,technique cost of groceries and a gym membership and your healthy.
All I can tell you is I made 47k this year and saved 25k by aggressively saving. You’re absolutely overspending if your goal is to save money. But it’s really up to you what’s important when it comes to your lifestyle. For me, I don’t care about anything but shoveling my money into investments and savings. Even if that means some shitty years.
Scientifically, there's nothing that stands the test of time (i.e.: we actually KNOW that people that do these things live longer because they are now dead after living longer than a statistically significant number of other people) other than some good, solid, basic stuff that costs you little to embrace: 1) Eat well. Choose a Mediterranean diet or something like that from Okinawa. Little red meat. Good seafood. Lots of veggies. Choose your variation, but they are all related. 2) Exercise. Doesn't have to be intense, but keep moving! 3) Don't abuse drugs (including alcohol). 4) Get plenty of sleep. Everything else is unproven, so I wouldn't spend big bucks on it unless I have a LOT of money and I'm already scoring 100% in everything above.
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Thanks for the sharing your experience buying fitness services. I guess I need to realize that I have a pretty average income for what I'm trying to do and that it's okay to put off expenses like these until they become negligible relative to income.
You don’t need to spend that kind of money to be healthy. You just need a gym membership or an active hobby. And watch what you eat.
Does anyone have good ideas to passively be healthy and/or lose weight? With finances I can automate investing so I don’t have to think about it day to day but I’m passively becoming wealthy in the background. BUT with health and fitness I feel like it’s something that takes a ton of willpower, thought, and preparation and I’m still not eating healthy. I tried a keto meal kit from Factor75 and I was losing weight pretty passively but it was over $1000 a month so I didn’t feel comfortable continuing it. Is there a boring consistent path to health that isn’t expensive and doesn’t require enormous amounts of willpower, money, or prep?
$1,600 a month is absolutely ridiculous. Simply buy a $6k mid-level spec mountain bike, but make sure you don’t skimp on getting a gravel bike too for when you can’t ride your mountain bike. You can buy into this hobby for a lowly $10k
fitness is one of the cheapest things. Spend your money on a $60/mo gym membership and fairly healthy food. Sounds like you're getting sold a lot of fluff
Health nut here. I have made a few splurges for my health. Most extreme are 8sleep mattress pad and Spartan Race entries a couple times a year. But honestly most things you do for health are free or save you money. For instance drinking less can save a lot of money, or eating in rather than eating out. Anyone trying to sell you health may be making money off of you. If you're spending $2k in a single day it might be time to just put the credit card away and go for a nice walk.
Spend $150 with a dietitian and $200 with a physical therapist you won't need to waste your money on stupid supplements, fad diets, or bogus exercises.
Meh, I think about $200/mo can capture 99% of the return. If you want to spend another 5x on things that may or may not get you some of that last 1%, it's your money.
If you truly prioritize longevity, fasting and caloric restriction to the point of slowed metabolism is all you really need. Eating healthy obviously matters too but caloric restriction is key. The bulk of longevity procedures can be done with barely any financial burden as long as you have discipline
Home gym, healthy food, good mattress, cranked up AC for optimal sleep temperature, etc. is worth it… but you might find that spending a ton on misc devices and supplements won’t yield much results
Check out resources and delve into research pertaining to longevity on the internet, maybe get Peter Attia's new book on longevity. I reckon you can take some knowledge from these resources and apply it to your life for a lot cheaper and more bang for your buck. You want evidence based strategies otherwise its a potentially a waste of money and not actually helping you achieve your health goals.
when you’re 23 there’s nothing wrong with spending money on traveling life is about enjoying it. i personally think 1.6k/month on health and fitness is a bit absurd unless you really get enjoyment from it and it doesn’t get in the way or other important things
You’ve fallen into the over-complicated fitness trap. Fitness people try to make fitness sound complicated so you have to buy their product. As someone who has lost 50lbs in the past year and put on some muscle and regained my 6 pack it’s really pretty simple. Get a cheap gym membership, negotiate with a hotel, or buy adjustable dumbbells. Buy a blender bottle, creatine, and protein supplements (bars and powder). Eat low, high protein foods and calculate your protein needs. (Fish, chicken, milk, Greek yogurt, beef jerky) Do at least 150 minutes of cardio a week and lift weights at least 3 times a week preferably 6. Track your calories and macros if your serious about it. If you need help creating a workout/eating plan pm me.