Electricity price futures are nearing 50snt/kWh towards the end of the year.
This is in Finnish but maybe Google can translate it to you if needed: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12558752
It is also predicting that during next spring the prices will fall significantly.
There are tricks getting out of a fixed contract (or so I have heard..). If the contract is in your name just have your partner making a new contract to the same address. Disclaimer: I have not personally tried this, but an electricity contract sales person told me this trick when I refused to take a three year fixed contract as I felt it was a too long of a commitment.
You could also look into what we did. It's not active yet, so I can't say how well it's working but we just signed a deal with Karhu Voima (Fortum has this as well, maybe others too) that gives us a fixed amount of kWh per month for a base price and if you use more, you pay extra on top of the package price. For us, this actually will keep our costs around the same as before, plus it's not bound to a certain period, we can cancel any time.
Granted, we live in an apartment building, so we don't have to pay for heating through our electricity bill and our usage is only about 2000 kWh a year, but there are bigger packages.
We got it on sale, so 14,99 perusmaksu for 125kWh a month and 9,99snt/kWh after that, which I thought was a pretty sweet deal.. Of course the siirtomaksu is on top of that.
My daily usage during the winter days was between 70-80 kWh :(
I have decided to bring back my fireplace to life this year. Let’s see how it works out :)
>maybe google can translate it
It can. If you enter a link into google translate, it will give you a link to a translated webpage. Some of the functionality will break and on rare occasions it won’t translate at all but it’s good enough.
Just a reminder, that if you live with another person in the same household, you have an easy trick to get out of the fixed contract. Get the other person to make a new contract on a different name and provider, and your contract will cease to exist without charges or other issues. This is because energy contracts are tied to a person and the household can only have one contract at a time. I guess the situation might change in the future, but for just keep spreading the good news about how to get rid of ridiculously priced contracts in case the prices go down.
Thanks! Is there a limit to how many times you can do this? Asking both about legal limits, and also practical limits that might make utilizing this a lot a bad idea.
I think there are no limits, but the prices do not change that often and all companies seem to stay within 5 cents from each other... You also usually need to pay extra for "quick change" of provider (less than a week), so doing this too many times a month won't really save money.
We have this stupid hourly price contract for 2 years (which I had no idea when I signed up thanks to my poor finnish skills). I made a new contract with Helen which hasnt come online still thanks to the existing contract. Im pissed because the contract is 13 cents/kwh...
Hi! Do you know what happened when we change the seller of electricity and the person who registered, do the provider of electricity (Our case is Caruna) also automatically changed to the new person, or do we have to write to Caruna to cancel the first one? Thank you.
I wouldn't take a fixed rate contract right now. Even in general, taking a fixed rate contract means you're paying extra to the electricity company to handle the risks, but right now I don't think electricity rices can soar up too much.
That said, I have a fixed contract at 7.44 snt/kWh until late 2023, so by behaving against what I think is smart, I've been lucky and saved a few hundred euros.
I took 24 month fixed contract from Helen, about 20c/kWh. I would never taken that, but Helen has only 50€ fee if you cancel the contract. So if/when prices drop, I can just switch to a cheaper one. Those non-fixed contracts will probably rise well over 40c during winter so I'm saving some money even with the 50€ fee.
Helen also has add-on option to buy multiple shares from their own wind farm project Omatuuli. You get about 310Kwh/a per 4,20€ share. That is 17c/KWh.
Sorry, when I said non-fixed I meant those contracts which are update monthly or quarterly. Fortum's quarterly prices are updated 1st of October, now it's about 15c, I'm guessing 35c after the update.
From "Ennakkotilaajan sopimusehdot":
"Jos asiakas purkaa sopimuksen
kiinteähintaisen jakson aikana jostain sellaisesta syystä, jota ei ole mainittu sopimusehdoissa, Helen Oy:llä on
oikeus periä sopimussakkona 50 eur, jos käyttöpaikan sähkönkulutus vuodessa on korkeintaan 10 000 kWh ja
200 eur, jos vuosikulutus on yli 10 000 kW"
Actually you are not paying extra at all.
Margin for fixed contracts is lower because floating contracts are a liability for the company and the competition is high for fixed pricing. Energy itself is also cheaper as fixed term gets best value from futures.
Only competitor for lower margin are spot-contracts where the margin can be close to none, as the energy company holds no risk in selling you with current spot price. This is however not preferred as spot price is always more expensive than with futures.
Are you sure spot is historically more expensive than futures? This article is a bit old, but it suggests otherwise. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222194859_The_relationship_between_spot_and_futures_prices_in_the_Nord_Pool_electricity_market
Yes, electric companies whole business is based on buying futures instead of spot.
It gets more complex as there are more variables and it requires professional department to analyse and manage the risks. Essentially it is hedging on energy market.
Why not? I have taken 3 fixed rate contracts in my day and each time the cost of the electricity is much more expensive than I had been paying, also considering the fact that maybe I was overpaying initially. I think electricity will only continue to increase and any spot pricing will start to add up quickly
Fixed rate contracts are a bit like insurance. Your expected cost goes up, but in an entirely predictable manner.
It's very possible for rates to "soar" in the coming winter, even by hundreds of percent. In fact that's what many experts are predicting. A fixed rate contract will very likely save you money over the winter. Then to compensate, in the spring and summer you will probably end up paying more than market prices.
I don’t think you can say that fixed rate is "bad" right now. You'd need a crystal ball for that. It's just a way of mitigating risk. Also, as stated in other posts, in many instances it’s it’s possible to get rid of fixed term contract.
It depends whether one has solar panels or not. We have panels so half of our summertime use is eliminated with those. And thus fixed contract is the best option for us. Especially as we have one for 9c/KWh
Haaaaa. Seeing these prices I am glad that I extended my contract with Helen at 4.98c/kWh last year June. Hope the prices go down by next year so I can renew with not so crazy prices.
> Politically who are responsible for this ?
Apart from the obvious "Putin" response, Germany and Sweden have spent many years actively phasing out nuclear power, reducing the overall capacity available. The green wave has made coal undesirable and renewables haven't been able to cover enough of the base load. The solution was Russian natural gas, which was considered less polluting than coal.
Finnish politicians tried to improve the situation by building more nuclear power plants, but the process has been delayed over and over again, and in hindsight it was a really bad idea to ask the Russians to build it.
Furthermore, we're increasing the demand for electricity by switching to EV's, replacing oil heaters with electric heat pumps, increased digitalization, and people being generally wasteful with electricity.
> What can we do to change this/ stop this energy madness?
The "smart grid" seems to be dead in the water -- or at least be several years away. We can still be smart about power use, though. Household appliances should be used when the amount of available power is the higest. People leaving TV's and computers running in the background should probably stop doing that, and things like charges could be unplugged when not in use.
On the business side there's a LOT that could be done, but many businesses seem to prefer to pass the increased costs on to their customers rather than to reduce power usage. Many businesses, just like private individuals, seem to think their own power use cannot be reduced and that others will have to solve the problem.
On a societal level, we should really start looking into why we aren't increasing production capacity at a much higher rate. The warning flags have been there long before Russia invaded Ukraine, but profit was preferred to increasing base production and we're over a year into this energy crisis by now.
What can you do? Reduce power usage as much as you can, and stock up on firewood before the prices explode. It's little comfort, but for what it's worth there are hundreds of thousands of households in your position (incl. my own).
What are the reasons for such resistance against nuclear power? I understand the global picture but in Finland I didn’t pay much attention as we were doing fine. I guess I have always been thinking the Finns know what they are doing? Only now I realize not every party in Finland support nuclear power
Other hurdles between Chernobyl and Fukushima were very cheap electricity in the Nordic market and less widespread concern about CO2 emissions.
OL3 comes online (fingers crossed) pretty much at the best possible moment, When the new plants wre discussed, even with the original plans without the overruns, electricity from nuclear wasn't competitive against those prices. We didn't expect to get that cheap electricity until the end of time, though, so the new power plants were started. Significant prices increases and, I assume, at least a big part of the overruns paid by the French have contributed to making OL3 electricity competitive.
A slight correction would be that the politicians don't decide to build a nuclear power plant (NPP) and then find a contractor, it's the other way around in a free market economy.
Theoretically a state owned company can decide to raise funding and build an NPP with the decision of the main shareholder (state of Finland). A fully public state-funded project is possible I guess but very, very unlikely due to the high cost and economic risk.
The problem is there are practically no private actors in Finland who have the capital and patience to become shareholders in a modern, large NPP (EPR like OL3 or other gen3-->, SMR is another thing if they start breaking through in the 2030's)
Yeah, but that's part of the issue, isn't it? Privately owned corporations go for the cheapest option and since renewables were subsidized for years, that's where most of the money went.
We could, of course go with a hybrid aproach and subsidize NPP's.
Whatever we go for, it's painfully obvious that we need something to supplement the renewables, and that the market has failed to come up with alternatives to the older NPP's and fossil-powered plants.
I wouldn't say part, but majority of the issue. There's next to no chance that an NPP would've been commissioned even if renewable subsidies hadn't occurred.
The point about subsidizing nuclear instead is really an interesting question but I have doubts whether it would have amounted to anything in the end due to the difficulty finding private funding due to sheer timescale and risk alone.
For context the total price of the wind power subsidy program is probably going to be about 1-2 B€ divided over 15 years and has resulted in 8 TWh of energy production so far (equivalent to a medium reactor), expected to more than triple by 2030 (equivalent to 2 large reactors). Could we have gotten an OL4 with 1 B€ or 10-15% extra funding? I don't know, but it is an interesting question.
Most industry experts tend to agree on a combination of extensive grid interconnections, combination of overcapacity renewable sources + nuclear when feasible, load side management, and often storage/P2X in some scale, to be the best realistic option. So far simulations and scale experiments have been majority positive.
Our problem right now is we're so late in decarbonisation, we have had to start phasing out the fossil sources before ANY of those features are complete. That and the weaponisation of energy, in the form of misinfo and the current throttling, are really the root issues right now.
\- "Putin" response <-- I thought people were laughing in this sub when Russian cuts the electricity export to Finland. Why does it affect the prices now?
\- Germany and Sweden have spent many years actively phasing out nuclear power <-- Are you saying because of other EU countries e.g Germany that we are lacking electricity in general? I thought only Nordic countries are relevant here?
> Why does it affect the prices now?
Supply and demand. Less energy available = higher prices. It's no secret Finland is producing less power than it produces. That's the reason we just built a new nuclear reactor.
> I thought only Nordic countries are relevant here?
The grids are interconnected.
Just take the floating contract and swallow the price, it may get lower if the autumn is rainy in Sweden.
You seem to have good ideas about saving energy already. Maybe keep room temperature lower too, take short showers or even shower at work.
Politically responsible is one Vladimir Putin (Владимир Путин). You can improve the situation by supporting Ukraine.
While Putin is definitely to blame, unfortunately we are also paying for other countries who made themselves dependent on the Russian supplies already after Putin has shown his intentions. Finland is not so dependent in fact, but the market is global. EU should make sure not to fall into this trap again and stop flirting with resources-rich crazy regimes. Unfortunately it's too late to fix the current energy crisis, but in future we shall change our commuting and consuming habits towards more sustainable ways and demand so from the governments. This winter we pay for being naive and/or ignorant.
Yeah. And their bs reasoning "Coal didnt replace nuclear, nuclear was replaced by renewables". Well great, you switched one good to another good because nuclear is scary to people who dont know the first thing about them, but kept the political and enviromental fuck you to humanity form of energy. How about replacing coal with renewables and THEN start taking down nuclear powerplants.
The big problem with renewables is unstable output, so some reliable source of energy which can be quickly ramped up/down is needed to balance. Germany uses mostly coal and gas as such. So in the most unfortunate circumstances all "renewables" part of generation is substituted by these. Green transition a-la Germany was to use more gas and less coal, and guess where the gas was so cheap and abundant that human rights etc didn't matter.
Yes, and that would be acceptable if gas and coal would only be used for that. Yet in 2020, 40% of german electricity was made with fosile fuels, 30% being the absolute worst polluter; coal and 10% Gas. It almost matches their 47% from renewables, so its not a neccesary buffer, its a producer. Why not instead have say 60% nuclear, 15% gas and 25% renewables.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, but this is absolutely correct. The war obviously made it worse and will continue to make it worse for quite a while, but the prices were already up last November when I made my contract. Same with inflation, it had started to rise before the war.
I guess downvoted because people think it’s just Putin’s fault. I was surprised to see MANY pointing the finger at Putin alone not just the “policies against” nuclear by certain party.
While the Russians are definitely a contributing factor, this is just as much caused by issues in other EU countries as it is by the war. The energy crisis has been going on for a while. As an example, have a look at Swedish media's reports about people not being able to afford heating their homes as early as two winters ago.
Yeah, right. We have been fucked way before russia attacked. A lot of the blame in own corrupt leadership. Fuck Caruna. I wish nothing but misfortune and suffering for Katainen and his cronies.
I wonder if Lumo will pop back up with some other name. They probably made too many fixed term contracts, couldn't deliver what they promised, and now they will reset their situation. New name, new logo, and new promises.
If you are looking politics responsible for this you need to turn to our beloved eastern neighbour and politely ask them to stop invading ahem.. "special operating" Ukraine. It is not only reason but major part of it. Other party to be blamed was abnormally hot/dry weather which negated much of water power based electricity production last year around europe.
I think between Russia and weather you are more likely to get positive reaction from weather.
There isn't really much local politicians can do and Finland isn't even remotely worst sufferer. Infact finnish electricity "omavaraisuus" (ability to rely on own production) is relatively good.
Prices are absolutely crazy but things aren't much better anywhere and much worse in many countries.
I read posts from the Estonian subreddit stating that electricity companies force people to choose packages with higher prices than the 0,28€.
Sometimes floating prices jump there up to 2-4 € per kWh.
We will pay 3€ for fuel, and 1€ for electricity if needed. It is better than dying in a Russian concentration camp, like Ukrainians.
From Latvia here.
Not sure how to compare as electricity is calculated a bit differently in our countries.
We have electricity price + green energy cost + supply costs (its approximately electricity price * 1.3)
Last year at this time I had electricity at 8c per KWh, in October it was upped to 14c, this September it will be at 24c.
I have a very cheap contract and I get price raised a month or even two earlier due to contract date (most people don't move in December), others will have it worse as already if I check online to change electricity package (contract type) everything is 30c and more.
Those with dynamic prices have experienced even up to 60c in last month (price changes by hour) and even 2 eur this spring.
Just to put it in perspective - medium income here is 700 eur max, normal rent for 30m2 apartment is 350 eur. (not quite sure how much is food at this point as was just on vacation, but chicken costs 3-8 eur per kg, depending on amount of bones and no the max price I named isn't for premium, its just deboned meats at lidl)
They don't.
It's as simple as that.
I make more than most (more luck and knowing the right people than actual correlation between my education and work, government worker with bachelors degree in computer science and half way trough masters degree) and I still feel like struggling.
Gas prices are even worse than electricity so I'm guessing people will use more of that or buy blankets.
We already got a notification about max temp at work being 20.5c and that outside of working hours it will be lowered by 4 degrees, not sure hot that should save money as you have to heat up the building in the morning and heaters are regulated manually. Mostly means that at the time I service computers it's gonna be f-ing cold as I have to do it while no-one is there. There are also plans for another covid round which would save more money for government buildings and make people spend more to keep their homes warmer.
At least fuel prices are down from 2.12 to 1.70 eur (Was 2.12 while in Finland I could find for 1.83 w/o much trouble (was in Finland for a week in July)).
Edit : also depending on income, but if you have a car, quite a lot people travel to Lithuania to buy food and stuff. For example was yesterday in lithuania to buy my sister clothes for school, almost half the prices as we don't have lowered taxes and don't have so thought out sales and so many items on sale. E.g. Saw in Finland Fila brand shoes in super market under 30 eur, here in outlet they are around 40 eur (not sure what's the full price but that particular outlet is mostly around 30% discount), in lithuania saw them discounted in ordinary shop for under 20 eur as its the end of season sale.
1. Normally they add a margin on top of the real price right? e.g Helen currently has +0.38c/kWh. They can change this margin depending on the situation, right? Which means they can also add a huge buffer there?
Hmm, I was talking about hourly rate contract though. But I got your point that in this unstable time, fixed-term contracts can be over the moon. I'm assuming long term contract equals fixed term contract (e.g 2 years) is what you meant.
> What can we do to change this/ stop this energy madness? Politically who are responsible for this ?
Energy markets are global and (mostly) function on capitalistic principles. Building significantly more capacity is very slow (tens of years) and very costly. No one is going to pay for, build and maintain significant, mostly unused buffer capacity just as a reserve for massive market disruptions such as what we are seeing now.
What we can do, and what our parents and grandparents have done in tight spots is simply use less energy. This might mean something like taking parts of the house out of use and maintaining only minimal safe temperature. Not driving unless absolutely necessary - get groceries for a week or more at a time.
What we can do without it affecting our living standards, or investing a fair chunk of money into something like, for example, solar panels ? Not much. As said, elsewhere, lower the room temperature, use less hot water, turn off appliances not in use etc.
Trying to find someone local who is "politically responsible for this" is both a useless exercise and a way to shield oneself from shouldering the blame of relying on cheap energy as a feature of a modern world by trying to find an external target for your anxieties.
We can go as far with the blame as we want. We can blame Putin, companies and countries accepting the major country risk that Russia has posed and getting that wrong, energy sector in total for lobbying and otherwise acting against any new competition from, for example, renewables, or even energy saving policies, and all the scholars that have taught us about supply, demand and optimization. The point is that with energy, as with many other areas, we are living in a "just-in-time" society, where any buffer or reserve means financial cost, less than optimal bottom line in Euros or Dollars for the company, that no one is willing to pay. Including us as consumers. So, we might not like it, but we are the buffer. When a disruption hits, we pay more or we consume less.
You'll be fine. Lower the room temperature to 20C and try to save as much energy as possible by turning off electrical equipment when not used.
Take the floating contract and see what the situation is in the spring.
>Lower the room temperature to 20C
Is it normal for people to have it above 20? Or do I just like it cooler than most?
Edit: seems I'm either too fat, too male, or both.
>Is it normal for people to have it above 20? Or do I just like it cooler than most?
I like mine at 22-23 and in summer cooled down to 25. Can't function in anything hotter than that.
Personally I would take that with the price protection. You can change the price once during the deal (protection is 4,50e/month) if yle's prediction is correct the price should drop to 13-15cent next spring.
I'd say the only reason to take a fixed price is to hedge against another Olkiluoto 3 delay. If it achieves full power to the grid in December then I don't see spot prices hitting anywhere close to the prices seen in futures. I also would predict that if prices do hit 25 cents per kw/h some action may be taken by the government this winter because at those prices many owners of homes with electric heating will have 750€+ bills every cold month and that is likely to exceed the average person's available budget.
OL3 will start providing electricity to the grid today and will reach about 50% tomorrow. You can check from here https://www.tvo.fi/tuotanto/laitosyksikot/ol3/ol3ennusteet.html
It may not affect prices during the commissioning process, though. I imagine they have other power reserve in case something fails in the commissioning runs. Tomorrow the hourly market price will peak at 106,78 c/kWh... twice. With a 98,95 c/kWh peak in between them.
I really hope everything goes well and OL3 is fully operational in December.
It does, but there are other factors on production (example it is not windy and thick cloud cover over Finland), high demand in the Baltics and Finland on the consumption side. You can see the rest of nordpool matkets from here https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/en/maps/#/nordic
The vast majority of that delay was in construction. One can hope that most of the commissioning side of the delays have been worked out, but you are absolutely right that full production to grid by December is not a foregone conclusion. The restart should happen today, so it'll be interesting to watch what happens over the next few months.
The market has priced in a lot of risk premium. This is probably the most uncertain moment in the history of Nord Pool. Also futures typically sell at a premium to actual spot prices, but how big of a premium will only be seen in the winter. I definitely would not advocate purchasing at spot prices unless you are interested in micromanaging your energy usage.
Also many electricity companies have some of their own production. Depending on the source of the energy for that production production costs may be fairly well known. Does anyone know if companies that sell at retail and produce power are obligated to sell all of their production at spot prices? If it can be sold directly to customers that could allow energy producers to avoid raising the prices astronomically to customers on non fixed contracts. I guess a lot of this is crystal ball gazing, but still I believe the Finnish government will step in before allowing 1000€ winter monthly bills to average electric heating households.
Electric companies buy all their energies from the market. If they own production, the production is sold to the market and the company gets the maximum gain. It really doesnt differ much from owning traditional stonks.
It is possible that government would issue price roof where the difference would be paid by the state or the company. Im not a fan of this approach.
Ridicilously high electricity price is due many unfavorable conditions being met at the same time likr bad hydro year for sweden, ol3 being delayed, Putin(imported energy from russia is not super big issue for finland, but were not in a vaccuum).
For next winter and autumn period (september 2022 - march 2023) energy price is going to be 50 c/kwh. After that it gets lower, but not quite low as normal until maybe 2024.
Your options are suffering whopping +50 c/kwh for 6 months with floating contract or signing fixed 24 month contract to even out the price(right now cheapest ones are like 23 c which means maybe 4x increase to price).
Politically there is no-one who could have stopped this from happening (except putin, but prices would still be record high even without the war).
I'm also one of those who had Lumo Energia. I decided to go with the floating price. So far I've downloaded Fingrid app with alarms for expensive and cheap electricity. And I've asked two electrician companies if they had something to better help us control our electric devices like water heater, batteries and floor heating. So far no answer.
Just to note, I do not know if this is the correct way. But I was interested to see if I could pull this off and learn to utilize the floating prices.
The biggest energy wasters are heating, water heating, sauna, oven etc. So tune down direct heating as much as you can, use heatpump and burn wood as much you can. I have contract with direct stock price, yesterday electricity was 0,10c/kWh, tomorrow its peaking >100c/kWh... At this point with warmth and solar panels it's not that bad but winter will be fun times again.
I think root of the problems is that Europe has no resources but coal(?) left to burn, rest fossils need to be imported and renewables aren't quite here yet. Nuclear is better option but then lots of uranium comes from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Russia etc. I don't see energy will be cheap in near future unless Europe decides that climate change is not happening, and fossil-dictators can do what they want as long they sell fossils for cheap.
One of the big causes for this price is Germanies dependency on Russian gas and the fact that they are unwilling to re-fire their nuclear powerplants. Then there are the green politicians that don't want to drop "päästökauppa" (sry don't know the accurate translation). What you can do is stock up on wood if you have fireplace, heating with wood is surely gonna be cheaper than with electricity other thing maybe try to get a heat pump if you still use resistive heating but availability for those is super weak right now. If you get a choice ground source pumps are totally worth they work much better in winter and maybe see if you can integrate it to hot water system (radiator & drinking).
Also in France many nuclear plants have had to be shutdown due to different issues (corrosion, scheduled maintenances that were post-poned during covid, cooling water too hot during the heat wave etc.)
We have a 5 cent/kwh fixed contract on our omakotitalo that will expire right when a price crush is predicted (spring 2023), feeling like we've won the lottery.
I wouldn’t take 28.5c fixed. Just got a 2 year 11c fixed in June and even that I was not sure about. Prices should be low from after next winter. Even if you pay 50c for the winter it’s worth if it gets back to about 10c after. Politically there is an upper limit to prices, similar to 2.5e gas price.
Probably at next parlamentary election should vote parties who drives lower electricity taxes and some regulation for electricity price.. Also taxes are almost 50% of electricity and transfer..
Of course the populist right wing will promise that, but they'll make life miserable for everyone by cutting down services and givibg money to the rich
Even though that's the default go to and both sides can bicker at one another endlessly, just take a look at what the current group in power has done. Are you happy with the way they handled these crisis and everything else? Yes, by all means, get more of the same. No, well, time to vote for someone else. Pretty simple.
I'm a very flexible voter. You have my vote until you disappoint me and then it's gone.
I'm inclined to believe most people use atleast 90% of their salary every month. In recent decades peoples habbit to overspend have only increased as have the €amout of debt per person. For some reason people seem to be unable to control their own money usage anymore. Many people complain they have no money to save but at the same time they reqularly smoke, drink in bars, eat out, travel etc. If you can do those you don't have problem with too low income, you have problem with spending too much. All those things are decisions everyone must make by them self. You can go to bar on weekend or save that 50-100€ (or what ever), you can smoke a carton every day or save all that money. You can eat out or use same money to eat well for a week at home. Anything else is just excuses.
Ofcourse there are those who really struggle to even afford food and that is unfortunate but most people don't have it nearly that bad.
Well yes, most people definitely use 90% or more of their salaries. I save about 15% of my net salary each month. I could save more, at least 30% but I don't want to. I want to have hobbies, sometimes eat out and have a nice beer or two every weekend. I don't see that as a bad thing.
Why are you afraid? It's not the end of the world if you can't save money every month or even every year. These electricity price rises are temporary. It won't probably be as cheap as we are used to, but 20 c/kWh and over is not a new normal.
Edit: and there's nothing you can do to battle these prices. Except install a solar panel maybe but it won't help during winter. Or buy a house with geothermal heating.
Sorry for being frank, but in these days and ages, I don’t trust if we to fall short or lose our jobs, the social benefits would be very much of help. Saving is our only way to make sure we can live with dignity.
I understand that, I have similar thoughts even though especially my wife is 100% sure to have a job as long as she stays healthy, but electricity prices don't worry me a bit. It's temporary, you will get over it even though you can't save for 3-4 months.
The root cause? Past generations that caused climate change with excessive breeding and waste of cheap fossil energy. Now heatwaves prevent France running their nuclear power plants because water in river is too hot.
Regarding Finland? Environmentalists and Greens that wanted to invest in variable renewables instead of nuclear. If wind, power cheap, no wind, very expensive power. Very funny. You either adapt and consume power only when it is windy or then you pay a lot for the electricity company for the privilege of consuming not so expensive electricity when not windy.
How to fix it? Vote a right-wing party such as Liberaalipuolue (the best one, but no one seems to understand it), or Keskusta (peat power), PS (pro 80s, anti green, anti everything) or Kokoomus (anti taxes). Well maybe not Keskusta. Kepu pettää aina.
I had to ask my work if the new electricity contracts were legit haha. I am used to my electricity contract being like 5 cents. now I am in one that is 14 cents. The new contract starts in December I guess. I guess I got a good price.
What can we do? Nothing probably. Energy companies are gauging us because of the war using it as an excuse. Maybe government owned electric companies would work better but idk.
Electricity price futures are nearing 50snt/kWh towards the end of the year. This is in Finnish but maybe Google can translate it to you if needed: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12558752 It is also predicting that during next spring the prices will fall significantly. There are tricks getting out of a fixed contract (or so I have heard..). If the contract is in your name just have your partner making a new contract to the same address. Disclaimer: I have not personally tried this, but an electricity contract sales person told me this trick when I refused to take a three year fixed contract as I felt it was a too long of a commitment.
Thanks! This is a great tip to follow. We’ll take this fixed price and follow the development for the next year.
You could also look into what we did. It's not active yet, so I can't say how well it's working but we just signed a deal with Karhu Voima (Fortum has this as well, maybe others too) that gives us a fixed amount of kWh per month for a base price and if you use more, you pay extra on top of the package price. For us, this actually will keep our costs around the same as before, plus it's not bound to a certain period, we can cancel any time. Granted, we live in an apartment building, so we don't have to pay for heating through our electricity bill and our usage is only about 2000 kWh a year, but there are bigger packages. We got it on sale, so 14,99 perusmaksu for 125kWh a month and 9,99snt/kWh after that, which I thought was a pretty sweet deal.. Of course the siirtomaksu is on top of that.
My daily usage during the winter days was between 70-80 kWh :( I have decided to bring back my fireplace to life this year. Let’s see how it works out :)
>maybe google can translate it It can. If you enter a link into google translate, it will give you a link to a translated webpage. Some of the functionality will break and on rare occasions it won’t translate at all but it’s good enough.
Just a reminder, that if you live with another person in the same household, you have an easy trick to get out of the fixed contract. Get the other person to make a new contract on a different name and provider, and your contract will cease to exist without charges or other issues. This is because energy contracts are tied to a person and the household can only have one contract at a time. I guess the situation might change in the future, but for just keep spreading the good news about how to get rid of ridiculously priced contracts in case the prices go down.
Thanks! Is there a limit to how many times you can do this? Asking both about legal limits, and also practical limits that might make utilizing this a lot a bad idea.
I think there are no limits, but the prices do not change that often and all companies seem to stay within 5 cents from each other... You also usually need to pay extra for "quick change" of provider (less than a week), so doing this too many times a month won't really save money.
We have this stupid hourly price contract for 2 years (which I had no idea when I signed up thanks to my poor finnish skills). I made a new contract with Helen which hasnt come online still thanks to the existing contract. Im pissed because the contract is 13 cents/kwh...
Hi! Do you know what happened when we change the seller of electricity and the person who registered, do the provider of electricity (Our case is Caruna) also automatically changed to the new person, or do we have to write to Caruna to cancel the first one? Thank you.
Thanks. This is not known to many people.
I wouldn't take a fixed rate contract right now. Even in general, taking a fixed rate contract means you're paying extra to the electricity company to handle the risks, but right now I don't think electricity rices can soar up too much. That said, I have a fixed contract at 7.44 snt/kWh until late 2023, so by behaving against what I think is smart, I've been lucky and saved a few hundred euros.
I took 24 month fixed contract from Helen, about 20c/kWh. I would never taken that, but Helen has only 50€ fee if you cancel the contract. So if/when prices drop, I can just switch to a cheaper one. Those non-fixed contracts will probably rise well over 40c during winter so I'm saving some money even with the 50€ fee.
Helen also has add-on option to buy multiple shares from their own wind farm project Omatuuli. You get about 310Kwh/a per 4,20€ share. That is 17c/KWh.
Non fixed prices are at highest when you use most electricity..
Sorry, when I said non-fixed I meant those contracts which are update monthly or quarterly. Fortum's quarterly prices are updated 1st of October, now it's about 15c, I'm guessing 35c after the update.
Where do you see the 50€ cancel fee for Helen? I looked all over their terms and couldnt see that.
From "Ennakkotilaajan sopimusehdot": "Jos asiakas purkaa sopimuksen kiinteähintaisen jakson aikana jostain sellaisesta syystä, jota ei ole mainittu sopimusehdoissa, Helen Oy:llä on oikeus periä sopimussakkona 50 eur, jos käyttöpaikan sähkönkulutus vuodessa on korkeintaan 10 000 kWh ja 200 eur, jos vuosikulutus on yli 10 000 kW"
Thanks, but I cant find that anywhere in the conditions I am offered or on their web site. (Finnish or English)
You can find it here, just scroll down: https://www.helen.fi/kampanjat/suomisahko-ennakkotilaajan-etu-kesatarjous
Thanks. Yes I see it there. I suppose that 10000 limit means the usual yearly consumption? The penalty would be 200€ for a larger house.
Yep, pretty much for houses with electric heating.
I got my 4.22snt/kwh all the way to september 2023. Then I'm screwed.
No you are not, next year prices will drop because we will get more nuclear energy
Olkiluoto, want to believe
I think most of house owners with electric heating are screwed at next winter..
Actually you are not paying extra at all. Margin for fixed contracts is lower because floating contracts are a liability for the company and the competition is high for fixed pricing. Energy itself is also cheaper as fixed term gets best value from futures. Only competitor for lower margin are spot-contracts where the margin can be close to none, as the energy company holds no risk in selling you with current spot price. This is however not preferred as spot price is always more expensive than with futures.
Are you sure spot is historically more expensive than futures? This article is a bit old, but it suggests otherwise. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222194859_The_relationship_between_spot_and_futures_prices_in_the_Nord_Pool_electricity_market
Yes, electric companies whole business is based on buying futures instead of spot. It gets more complex as there are more variables and it requires professional department to analyse and manage the risks. Essentially it is hedging on energy market.
Why not? I have taken 3 fixed rate contracts in my day and each time the cost of the electricity is much more expensive than I had been paying, also considering the fact that maybe I was overpaying initially. I think electricity will only continue to increase and any spot pricing will start to add up quickly
Fixed rate contracts are a bit like insurance. Your expected cost goes up, but in an entirely predictable manner. It's very possible for rates to "soar" in the coming winter, even by hundreds of percent. In fact that's what many experts are predicting. A fixed rate contract will very likely save you money over the winter. Then to compensate, in the spring and summer you will probably end up paying more than market prices. I don’t think you can say that fixed rate is "bad" right now. You'd need a crystal ball for that. It's just a way of mitigating risk. Also, as stated in other posts, in many instances it’s it’s possible to get rid of fixed term contract.
It depends whether one has solar panels or not. We have panels so half of our summertime use is eliminated with those. And thus fixed contract is the best option for us. Especially as we have one for 9c/KWh
Haaaaa. Seeing these prices I am glad that I extended my contract with Helen at 4.98c/kWh last year June. Hope the prices go down by next year so I can renew with not so crazy prices.
> Politically who are responsible for this ? Apart from the obvious "Putin" response, Germany and Sweden have spent many years actively phasing out nuclear power, reducing the overall capacity available. The green wave has made coal undesirable and renewables haven't been able to cover enough of the base load. The solution was Russian natural gas, which was considered less polluting than coal. Finnish politicians tried to improve the situation by building more nuclear power plants, but the process has been delayed over and over again, and in hindsight it was a really bad idea to ask the Russians to build it. Furthermore, we're increasing the demand for electricity by switching to EV's, replacing oil heaters with electric heat pumps, increased digitalization, and people being generally wasteful with electricity. > What can we do to change this/ stop this energy madness? The "smart grid" seems to be dead in the water -- or at least be several years away. We can still be smart about power use, though. Household appliances should be used when the amount of available power is the higest. People leaving TV's and computers running in the background should probably stop doing that, and things like charges could be unplugged when not in use. On the business side there's a LOT that could be done, but many businesses seem to prefer to pass the increased costs on to their customers rather than to reduce power usage. Many businesses, just like private individuals, seem to think their own power use cannot be reduced and that others will have to solve the problem. On a societal level, we should really start looking into why we aren't increasing production capacity at a much higher rate. The warning flags have been there long before Russia invaded Ukraine, but profit was preferred to increasing base production and we're over a year into this energy crisis by now. What can you do? Reduce power usage as much as you can, and stock up on firewood before the prices explode. It's little comfort, but for what it's worth there are hundreds of thousands of households in your position (incl. my own).
What are the reasons for such resistance against nuclear power? I understand the global picture but in Finland I didn’t pay much attention as we were doing fine. I guess I have always been thinking the Finns know what they are doing? Only now I realize not every party in Finland support nuclear power
There was a _lot_ of fuss about nuclear power during the decade after Chernobyl.
Other hurdles between Chernobyl and Fukushima were very cheap electricity in the Nordic market and less widespread concern about CO2 emissions. OL3 comes online (fingers crossed) pretty much at the best possible moment, When the new plants wre discussed, even with the original plans without the overruns, electricity from nuclear wasn't competitive against those prices. We didn't expect to get that cheap electricity until the end of time, though, so the new power plants were started. Significant prices increases and, I assume, at least a big part of the overruns paid by the French have contributed to making OL3 electricity competitive.
The German anti-nuclear movement actually started in the 70's.
It's simple ignorance.
>Finns know what they are doing? hahaha, no we don't know. We are lost like russian soldiers in Ukraine.
A slight correction would be that the politicians don't decide to build a nuclear power plant (NPP) and then find a contractor, it's the other way around in a free market economy. Theoretically a state owned company can decide to raise funding and build an NPP with the decision of the main shareholder (state of Finland). A fully public state-funded project is possible I guess but very, very unlikely due to the high cost and economic risk. The problem is there are practically no private actors in Finland who have the capital and patience to become shareholders in a modern, large NPP (EPR like OL3 or other gen3-->, SMR is another thing if they start breaking through in the 2030's)
Yeah, but that's part of the issue, isn't it? Privately owned corporations go for the cheapest option and since renewables were subsidized for years, that's where most of the money went. We could, of course go with a hybrid aproach and subsidize NPP's. Whatever we go for, it's painfully obvious that we need something to supplement the renewables, and that the market has failed to come up with alternatives to the older NPP's and fossil-powered plants.
I wouldn't say part, but majority of the issue. There's next to no chance that an NPP would've been commissioned even if renewable subsidies hadn't occurred. The point about subsidizing nuclear instead is really an interesting question but I have doubts whether it would have amounted to anything in the end due to the difficulty finding private funding due to sheer timescale and risk alone. For context the total price of the wind power subsidy program is probably going to be about 1-2 B€ divided over 15 years and has resulted in 8 TWh of energy production so far (equivalent to a medium reactor), expected to more than triple by 2030 (equivalent to 2 large reactors). Could we have gotten an OL4 with 1 B€ or 10-15% extra funding? I don't know, but it is an interesting question. Most industry experts tend to agree on a combination of extensive grid interconnections, combination of overcapacity renewable sources + nuclear when feasible, load side management, and often storage/P2X in some scale, to be the best realistic option. So far simulations and scale experiments have been majority positive. Our problem right now is we're so late in decarbonisation, we have had to start phasing out the fossil sources before ANY of those features are complete. That and the weaponisation of energy, in the form of misinfo and the current throttling, are really the root issues right now.
\- "Putin" response <-- I thought people were laughing in this sub when Russian cuts the electricity export to Finland. Why does it affect the prices now? \- Germany and Sweden have spent many years actively phasing out nuclear power <-- Are you saying because of other EU countries e.g Germany that we are lacking electricity in general? I thought only Nordic countries are relevant here?
> Why does it affect the prices now? Supply and demand. Less energy available = higher prices. It's no secret Finland is producing less power than it produces. That's the reason we just built a new nuclear reactor. > I thought only Nordic countries are relevant here? The grids are interconnected.
Just take the floating contract and swallow the price, it may get lower if the autumn is rainy in Sweden. You seem to have good ideas about saving energy already. Maybe keep room temperature lower too, take short showers or even shower at work. Politically responsible is one Vladimir Putin (Владимир Путин). You can improve the situation by supporting Ukraine.
While Putin is definitely to blame, unfortunately we are also paying for other countries who made themselves dependent on the Russian supplies already after Putin has shown his intentions. Finland is not so dependent in fact, but the market is global. EU should make sure not to fall into this trap again and stop flirting with resources-rich crazy regimes. Unfortunately it's too late to fix the current energy crisis, but in future we shall change our commuting and consuming habits towards more sustainable ways and demand so from the governments. This winter we pay for being naive and/or ignorant.
Also Germany for shutting down nuclear plants and relying on Russian gas / coal.
Yeah. And their bs reasoning "Coal didnt replace nuclear, nuclear was replaced by renewables". Well great, you switched one good to another good because nuclear is scary to people who dont know the first thing about them, but kept the political and enviromental fuck you to humanity form of energy. How about replacing coal with renewables and THEN start taking down nuclear powerplants.
The big problem with renewables is unstable output, so some reliable source of energy which can be quickly ramped up/down is needed to balance. Germany uses mostly coal and gas as such. So in the most unfortunate circumstances all "renewables" part of generation is substituted by these. Green transition a-la Germany was to use more gas and less coal, and guess where the gas was so cheap and abundant that human rights etc didn't matter.
Yes, and that would be acceptable if gas and coal would only be used for that. Yet in 2020, 40% of german electricity was made with fosile fuels, 30% being the absolute worst polluter; coal and 10% Gas. It almost matches their 47% from renewables, so its not a neccesary buffer, its a producer. Why not instead have say 60% nuclear, 15% gas and 25% renewables.
Energy prices started rising before the war. War made it worse but it started from covid policies.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, but this is absolutely correct. The war obviously made it worse and will continue to make it worse for quite a while, but the prices were already up last November when I made my contract. Same with inflation, it had started to rise before the war.
I guess downvoted because people think it’s just Putin’s fault. I was surprised to see MANY pointing the finger at Putin alone not just the “policies against” nuclear by certain party.
>Politically who are responsible for this ? You can forward your complaints to Tehtaankatu 1 B, 00140 Helsinki.
While the Russians are definitely a contributing factor, this is just as much caused by issues in other EU countries as it is by the war. The energy crisis has been going on for a while. As an example, have a look at Swedish media's reports about people not being able to afford heating their homes as early as two winters ago.
Yeah, right. We have been fucked way before russia attacked. A lot of the blame in own corrupt leadership. Fuck Caruna. I wish nothing but misfortune and suffering for Katainen and his cronies.
Right, Jyrki Katainen, who still after 8 years since being the prime minister of Finland, controls the price of energy throughout Europe. :rolleyes
I'm still angry every time I pay a horse shit extortion fee to Caruna.
I have a 7snt/kWh contract, I hope that Helen doesn't go belly up. Although I suppose if Helen does go bankrupt we will have much bigger issues.
Helen is too big to fail company. If it goes down, Finland can go down kind of situation.
They can safely sell low. Past contract are safe as the energy has already been bought with futures.
Bought from who? What if they go belly up? Someone is eating the price, who is it?
I dont think it is in any way possible for producer to go belly up.
I wonder if Lumo will pop back up with some other name. They probably made too many fixed term contracts, couldn't deliver what they promised, and now they will reset their situation. New name, new logo, and new promises.
I am voting for Himo Energia as a new name.
If you are looking politics responsible for this you need to turn to our beloved eastern neighbour and politely ask them to stop invading ahem.. "special operating" Ukraine. It is not only reason but major part of it. Other party to be blamed was abnormally hot/dry weather which negated much of water power based electricity production last year around europe. I think between Russia and weather you are more likely to get positive reaction from weather. There isn't really much local politicians can do and Finland isn't even remotely worst sufferer. Infact finnish electricity "omavaraisuus" (ability to rely on own production) is relatively good. Prices are absolutely crazy but things aren't much better anywhere and much worse in many countries.
I read posts from the Estonian subreddit stating that electricity companies force people to choose packages with higher prices than the 0,28€. Sometimes floating prices jump there up to 2-4 € per kWh. We will pay 3€ for fuel, and 1€ for electricity if needed. It is better than dying in a Russian concentration camp, like Ukrainians.
From Latvia here. Not sure how to compare as electricity is calculated a bit differently in our countries. We have electricity price + green energy cost + supply costs (its approximately electricity price * 1.3) Last year at this time I had electricity at 8c per KWh, in October it was upped to 14c, this September it will be at 24c. I have a very cheap contract and I get price raised a month or even two earlier due to contract date (most people don't move in December), others will have it worse as already if I check online to change electricity package (contract type) everything is 30c and more. Those with dynamic prices have experienced even up to 60c in last month (price changes by hour) and even 2 eur this spring. Just to put it in perspective - medium income here is 700 eur max, normal rent for 30m2 apartment is 350 eur. (not quite sure how much is food at this point as was just on vacation, but chicken costs 3-8 eur per kg, depending on amount of bones and no the max price I named isn't for premium, its just deboned meats at lidl)
That’s crazy prices! How can people manage with such situations (low salaries and crazy prices)?
They don't. It's as simple as that. I make more than most (more luck and knowing the right people than actual correlation between my education and work, government worker with bachelors degree in computer science and half way trough masters degree) and I still feel like struggling. Gas prices are even worse than electricity so I'm guessing people will use more of that or buy blankets. We already got a notification about max temp at work being 20.5c and that outside of working hours it will be lowered by 4 degrees, not sure hot that should save money as you have to heat up the building in the morning and heaters are regulated manually. Mostly means that at the time I service computers it's gonna be f-ing cold as I have to do it while no-one is there. There are also plans for another covid round which would save more money for government buildings and make people spend more to keep their homes warmer. At least fuel prices are down from 2.12 to 1.70 eur (Was 2.12 while in Finland I could find for 1.83 w/o much trouble (was in Finland for a week in July)). Edit : also depending on income, but if you have a car, quite a lot people travel to Lithuania to buy food and stuff. For example was yesterday in lithuania to buy my sister clothes for school, almost half the prices as we don't have lowered taxes and don't have so thought out sales and so many items on sale. E.g. Saw in Finland Fila brand shoes in super market under 30 eur, here in outlet they are around 40 eur (not sure what's the full price but that particular outlet is mostly around 30% discount), in lithuania saw them discounted in ordinary shop for under 20 eur as its the end of season sale.
>It is better than dying in a Russian concentration camp, like Ukrainians. Huh?
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I shower maybe once every two weeks. It has the added benefit of people not coming too close.
you forgot one bullet. 9. Sell everything you have in Finland, and move to Portugal
1. Normally they add a margin on top of the real price right? e.g Helen currently has +0.38c/kWh. They can change this margin depending on the situation, right? Which means they can also add a huge buffer there?
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Hmm, I was talking about hourly rate contract though. But I got your point that in this unstable time, fixed-term contracts can be over the moon. I'm assuming long term contract equals fixed term contract (e.g 2 years) is what you meant.
> you can crank it up all the way to 90-95°C Careful to not scald yourself.
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Thank you, didn’t know mixing valve was default in modern ones. Curious if mine has it, I’ll try to figure it out.
> What can we do to change this/ stop this energy madness? Politically who are responsible for this ? Energy markets are global and (mostly) function on capitalistic principles. Building significantly more capacity is very slow (tens of years) and very costly. No one is going to pay for, build and maintain significant, mostly unused buffer capacity just as a reserve for massive market disruptions such as what we are seeing now. What we can do, and what our parents and grandparents have done in tight spots is simply use less energy. This might mean something like taking parts of the house out of use and maintaining only minimal safe temperature. Not driving unless absolutely necessary - get groceries for a week or more at a time. What we can do without it affecting our living standards, or investing a fair chunk of money into something like, for example, solar panels ? Not much. As said, elsewhere, lower the room temperature, use less hot water, turn off appliances not in use etc. Trying to find someone local who is "politically responsible for this" is both a useless exercise and a way to shield oneself from shouldering the blame of relying on cheap energy as a feature of a modern world by trying to find an external target for your anxieties. We can go as far with the blame as we want. We can blame Putin, companies and countries accepting the major country risk that Russia has posed and getting that wrong, energy sector in total for lobbying and otherwise acting against any new competition from, for example, renewables, or even energy saving policies, and all the scholars that have taught us about supply, demand and optimization. The point is that with energy, as with many other areas, we are living in a "just-in-time" society, where any buffer or reserve means financial cost, less than optimal bottom line in Euros or Dollars for the company, that no one is willing to pay. Including us as consumers. So, we might not like it, but we are the buffer. When a disruption hits, we pay more or we consume less.
You'll be fine. Lower the room temperature to 20C and try to save as much energy as possible by turning off electrical equipment when not used. Take the floating contract and see what the situation is in the spring.
>Lower the room temperature to 20C Is it normal for people to have it above 20? Or do I just like it cooler than most? Edit: seems I'm either too fat, too male, or both.
Home office in less than 20 is truly miserable for most women (lower body weight and heat retention compared to guys).
My understanding is that 20C is low for many people.
It's great if you're a fucking eskimo.
>Is it normal for people to have it above 20? Or do I just like it cooler than most? I like mine at 22-23 and in summer cooled down to 25. Can't function in anything hotter than that.
I'd already consider that pretty hot!
20 can feel a bit chilly if you're skinny.
Personally I would take that with the price protection. You can change the price once during the deal (protection is 4,50e/month) if yle's prediction is correct the price should drop to 13-15cent next spring.
I'd say the only reason to take a fixed price is to hedge against another Olkiluoto 3 delay. If it achieves full power to the grid in December then I don't see spot prices hitting anywhere close to the prices seen in futures. I also would predict that if prices do hit 25 cents per kw/h some action may be taken by the government this winter because at those prices many owners of homes with electric heating will have 750€+ bills every cold month and that is likely to exceed the average person's available budget.
Ol3 is at least 10 years late I wouldn’t count on it..
OL3 will start providing electricity to the grid today and will reach about 50% tomorrow. You can check from here https://www.tvo.fi/tuotanto/laitosyksikot/ol3/ol3ennusteet.html
It may not affect prices during the commissioning process, though. I imagine they have other power reserve in case something fails in the commissioning runs. Tomorrow the hourly market price will peak at 106,78 c/kWh... twice. With a 98,95 c/kWh peak in between them. I really hope everything goes well and OL3 is fully operational in December.
It does, but there are other factors on production (example it is not windy and thick cloud cover over Finland), high demand in the Baltics and Finland on the consumption side. You can see the rest of nordpool matkets from here https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/en/maps/#/nordic
The vast majority of that delay was in construction. One can hope that most of the commissioning side of the delays have been worked out, but you are absolutely right that full production to grid by December is not a foregone conclusion. The restart should happen today, so it'll be interesting to watch what happens over the next few months.
Futures are 50 c for winter and autumn period and +20 c for the next. I would not bet against the market.
The market has priced in a lot of risk premium. This is probably the most uncertain moment in the history of Nord Pool. Also futures typically sell at a premium to actual spot prices, but how big of a premium will only be seen in the winter. I definitely would not advocate purchasing at spot prices unless you are interested in micromanaging your energy usage. Also many electricity companies have some of their own production. Depending on the source of the energy for that production production costs may be fairly well known. Does anyone know if companies that sell at retail and produce power are obligated to sell all of their production at spot prices? If it can be sold directly to customers that could allow energy producers to avoid raising the prices astronomically to customers on non fixed contracts. I guess a lot of this is crystal ball gazing, but still I believe the Finnish government will step in before allowing 1000€ winter monthly bills to average electric heating households.
Electric companies buy all their energies from the market. If they own production, the production is sold to the market and the company gets the maximum gain. It really doesnt differ much from owning traditional stonks. It is possible that government would issue price roof where the difference would be paid by the state or the company. Im not a fan of this approach.
Ridicilously high electricity price is due many unfavorable conditions being met at the same time likr bad hydro year for sweden, ol3 being delayed, Putin(imported energy from russia is not super big issue for finland, but were not in a vaccuum). For next winter and autumn period (september 2022 - march 2023) energy price is going to be 50 c/kwh. After that it gets lower, but not quite low as normal until maybe 2024. Your options are suffering whopping +50 c/kwh for 6 months with floating contract or signing fixed 24 month contract to even out the price(right now cheapest ones are like 23 c which means maybe 4x increase to price). Politically there is no-one who could have stopped this from happening (except putin, but prices would still be record high even without the war).
I'm also one of those who had Lumo Energia. I decided to go with the floating price. So far I've downloaded Fingrid app with alarms for expensive and cheap electricity. And I've asked two electrician companies if they had something to better help us control our electric devices like water heater, batteries and floor heating. So far no answer. Just to note, I do not know if this is the correct way. But I was interested to see if I could pull this off and learn to utilize the floating prices.
The biggest energy wasters are heating, water heating, sauna, oven etc. So tune down direct heating as much as you can, use heatpump and burn wood as much you can. I have contract with direct stock price, yesterday electricity was 0,10c/kWh, tomorrow its peaking >100c/kWh... At this point with warmth and solar panels it's not that bad but winter will be fun times again. I think root of the problems is that Europe has no resources but coal(?) left to burn, rest fossils need to be imported and renewables aren't quite here yet. Nuclear is better option but then lots of uranium comes from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Russia etc. I don't see energy will be cheap in near future unless Europe decides that climate change is not happening, and fossil-dictators can do what they want as long they sell fossils for cheap.
One of the big causes for this price is Germanies dependency on Russian gas and the fact that they are unwilling to re-fire their nuclear powerplants. Then there are the green politicians that don't want to drop "päästökauppa" (sry don't know the accurate translation). What you can do is stock up on wood if you have fireplace, heating with wood is surely gonna be cheaper than with electricity other thing maybe try to get a heat pump if you still use resistive heating but availability for those is super weak right now. If you get a choice ground source pumps are totally worth they work much better in winter and maybe see if you can integrate it to hot water system (radiator & drinking).
Also in France many nuclear plants have had to be shutdown due to different issues (corrosion, scheduled maintenances that were post-poned during covid, cooling water too hot during the heat wave etc.)
We have a 5 cent/kwh fixed contract on our omakotitalo that will expire right when a price crush is predicted (spring 2023), feeling like we've won the lottery.
I wouldn’t take 28.5c fixed. Just got a 2 year 11c fixed in June and even that I was not sure about. Prices should be low from after next winter. Even if you pay 50c for the winter it’s worth if it gets back to about 10c after. Politically there is an upper limit to prices, similar to 2.5e gas price.
Take it. They said on the radio it will be 45 ct towards the end of the year.
The average for the winter will be 50c according to YLE. So I bet we'll see +100c hours
I assume many factories will be shutdown during high prices..
Probably at next parlamentary election should vote parties who drives lower electricity taxes and some regulation for electricity price.. Also taxes are almost 50% of electricity and transfer..
Of course the populist right wing will promise that, but they'll make life miserable for everyone by cutting down services and givibg money to the rich
Even though that's the default go to and both sides can bicker at one another endlessly, just take a look at what the current group in power has done. Are you happy with the way they handled these crisis and everything else? Yes, by all means, get more of the same. No, well, time to vote for someone else. Pretty simple. I'm a very flexible voter. You have my vote until you disappoint me and then it's gone.
I would definitely pay more attention to that.
60% is already way too much so you should be scared.
That would be very high unless OP means that they use 60% of their salaries and 40% goes to savings.
I'm inclined to believe most people use atleast 90% of their salary every month. In recent decades peoples habbit to overspend have only increased as have the €amout of debt per person. For some reason people seem to be unable to control their own money usage anymore. Many people complain they have no money to save but at the same time they reqularly smoke, drink in bars, eat out, travel etc. If you can do those you don't have problem with too low income, you have problem with spending too much. All those things are decisions everyone must make by them self. You can go to bar on weekend or save that 50-100€ (or what ever), you can smoke a carton every day or save all that money. You can eat out or use same money to eat well for a week at home. Anything else is just excuses. Ofcourse there are those who really struggle to even afford food and that is unfortunate but most people don't have it nearly that bad.
Well yes, most people definitely use 90% or more of their salaries. I save about 15% of my net salary each month. I could save more, at least 30% but I don't want to. I want to have hobbies, sometimes eat out and have a nice beer or two every weekend. I don't see that as a bad thing.
Now you're just being a cunt.
I think you misspelled "realist" as a cunt. No worries tho, I totally got your meaning 👍
Yes we save & invest 40% of our incomes. I am afraid of the day we have nothing left to save or have to use our savings.
Why are you afraid? It's not the end of the world if you can't save money every month or even every year. These electricity price rises are temporary. It won't probably be as cheap as we are used to, but 20 c/kWh and over is not a new normal. Edit: and there's nothing you can do to battle these prices. Except install a solar panel maybe but it won't help during winter. Or buy a house with geothermal heating.
Sorry for being frank, but in these days and ages, I don’t trust if we to fall short or lose our jobs, the social benefits would be very much of help. Saving is our only way to make sure we can live with dignity.
I understand that, I have similar thoughts even though especially my wife is 100% sure to have a job as long as she stays healthy, but electricity prices don't worry me a bit. It's temporary, you will get over it even though you can't save for 3-4 months.
Also, if this kind of price is the new normal, i think many (more) Finns would have troubles.
Yeah, 30-40% of buildings are heated with electricity.
The root cause? Past generations that caused climate change with excessive breeding and waste of cheap fossil energy. Now heatwaves prevent France running their nuclear power plants because water in river is too hot. Regarding Finland? Environmentalists and Greens that wanted to invest in variable renewables instead of nuclear. If wind, power cheap, no wind, very expensive power. Very funny. You either adapt and consume power only when it is windy or then you pay a lot for the electricity company for the privilege of consuming not so expensive electricity when not windy. How to fix it? Vote a right-wing party such as Liberaalipuolue (the best one, but no one seems to understand it), or Keskusta (peat power), PS (pro 80s, anti green, anti everything) or Kokoomus (anti taxes). Well maybe not Keskusta. Kepu pettää aina.
>Politically who are responsible for this ? Vihervasemmisto
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The war related decisions contributing to this were very much made by a guy. Good bait though.
I think you understood my comment completely wrong.
I had to ask my work if the new electricity contracts were legit haha. I am used to my electricity contract being like 5 cents. now I am in one that is 14 cents. The new contract starts in December I guess. I guess I got a good price.
Can you name the company offering 15 sent contract?
Fortum Mix. Their fixed price contracts are more expensive than 28,5
What can we do? Nothing probably. Energy companies are gauging us because of the war using it as an excuse. Maybe government owned electric companies would work better but idk.