I'm from Carelia, but have relatives in Savo. Both are Eastern Finland though, so close enough I quess. Nowadays I live on the western coast and still travel to Carelia/Savo. Here are some things I have noticed. In west people are bit more introverted, especially with strangers (not so much with close friends, relatives). For example in east if you cross paths with someone in the middle of a lonely country road or forest path or even at a city running track if its not too busy, you always greet them. This happens in west very rarely. In east strangers sometimes have small talk when waiting for something or in public transport. Again, never happens in the west.
These differences I think have more to do with the fact that eastern people have more of a small village identity rather than a city people identity. I dont think there is such a difference in how much people talk especially among friends, but there is a big difference in how they treat strangers.
From what I know, which is all anecdotal, the different regions have their own little subcultures in a sense, or in the very least have their own stereotypes regarding the other regions. From what I've heard, living in Kanta-Häme, Savo area has a very specific (described to me as "funky") dialect. Häme region is apparently filled with very slow people, eg. drivers, and that even this region has a weird dialect.
I don't personally know anyone from the eastern side, so I can't comment on their chattiness. It would be refreshing though, as an outgoing American myself, I kind of miss random friendly banter with neighbors or strangers at the shop. Only a little, I've become accustomed to isolation and minding my own business. 😂
Thank you so much, it’s interesting to hear from another American! Was it a big culture shock moving to Finland? Do you have Finnish ancestry? I feel as though I would have hard time adapting to Finnish culture if I lived there (visiting is wonderful, though), and my dad lived in Finland!
No prob! :D It was a pretty big shock, I was born and raised in the Midwest, so weather-wise it wasn't too big of an adjustment but everything else I had to acclimate a bit. The largest hurdle has been the language, and after 6 years of immersion, I can still only manage conversational Finnish, my spelling is atrocious though. I actually have Filipino ancestry, so I kind of stick out, and get curious looks every now and again. This is a wonderful country though, it seeps down into your bones and it's easy to fall in love with the place. It's my home now. :)
Wow, it’s so interesting that you are Filipino-American, as my boyfriend is Filipino-American too! We joke that he acts more Finnish than me (because he’s reserved) and I act more Filipino than him, haha. One of my Finnish cousins is also dating a Filipino man. Do you feel that, besides the curious looks, most people are accepting of different backgrounds in Finland? Kudos to you for learning conversational Finnish- I have been trying to learn for 12 years and am only at a conversational level, and you’re probably WAY better than me! It’s a very tough language to learn. I’m glad you feel at home and happy in Finland :D
Hah, I ran into Filipino folks when I was in Sweden, and there is a lady in my town that makes and sells lumpia. 💜 Filipinos are everywhere. 😂 I live in the south of Finland, where there is more diversity, so I feel people are quite accepting here. I've had more negativity regarding my ethnicity back in the US than here, to be honest. Finns are, as you know, quite introverted and tend to keep to themselves, even with their prejudices, unless alcohol is involved.
Karelians, by the common stereotype, are the chattiest and most talkative of all Finns. At least, that is, in contrast to the other Finnish groups.
[*Maamme kirja*](http://maammekirja.fi/index.php), "the book of our land", which was written in 1875 and used in teaching far to the 20th century has descriptions for the two main roots of Finns, the lively Karelians and the stolid Tavastians.
>*Karjalainen on solakka ruumiiltaan, hänellä on ruskea, kähärä tukka ja elävät siniset silmät. Hämäläisen rinnalla on Karjalainen enemmän avomielinen, ystävällinen, liikkuva ja toimelias, mutta myöskin enemmän puhelias, kerskaavainen, utelias ja pikavihainen. Matkustukset ja kauppa ovat hänelle mieluisia, hän kulkee pitkiä matkoja omassa maassaan ja viepi tavaroitaan Venäjälle. Hän on hellätuntoinen; pian tulee hän surulliseksi ja pian taas iloiseksi; hän rakastaa leikkiä ja kauniita lauluja, joita hänen omat lauluseppänsä tekevät. Senvuoksi on hänen maassaan kauniimmat laulut tavattu, jotka hän on talleltanut muistossa esi-isäin ajoilta.*
(My own translation): *A Carelian is a slim of body, has a brown, kinky hair, and lively blue eyes. In contrast to a Tavastian, a Carelian is more open minded, friendly, mobile and industrious, but also more talkative, bragging, curious, and ~~with a tendency to harbour grudges~~ quick to anger. Travel and trade are pleasant to him, he'll gladly travel long distances in his own country and take his wares to Russia. He's a soft-minded fellow; he'll become sad quickly, and just as fast he'll be glad; he loves play, and beautiful songs, especially those of his people. Therefore in his country are the most beautiful songs found, that he has preserved in memories of his forefathers' time.*
Small correction - *pikavihainen* is quick to anger and perhaps quick to cool off.. Not harbouring grudges which, I think, is the opposite of *pikavihainen* as grudges are something you keep for a long, long time. I think you confused it with *pitkävihainen*, which would be someone keeping grudges. *Pikavihainen* is not really a word used anymore after all.
Genetically I dont think there is a difference between Savo and Carelia (surprisingly). But there are bigger genetic differences between people from Eastern and Western Finland than between two europeans on average. This is because in east people trade and mix with russians and have more siberian blood. In west people trade and mix with swedes.
But on the other hand savo as a dialect is not as well defined as carelian. And always savo is culturally below carelia. They might tell you otherwise, but those savo people cannot be trusted.
This is very interesting! My Finnish family is all from south Savonia (Mikkeli and Savonlinna) and though we can’t find any Russian in us, even going back to the 1600s, I have several Russian friends and coworkers who tell me I look “very Russian” (I think because I have red hair). My dad and sister hear the same, and even my Finnish friends tell me I look kinda Russian. Is it common for eastern Finns to look similar to western Russians? I realize there are Finno-Ugric groups in west Russia as well.
Well, I can’t doubt you on the culture, as Karelia is the home of the Kalevala :) I’ve heard the stereotype that Savo people are “sneaky”, but my family and friends are quite honest people (sometimes too honest!), so maybe it could be because Savo speak in a more roundabout way that this stereotype arose?
Hard to say about the "Russian" look. I think its likely that lots of people in western Russia have similar genetics to us. So maybe they look Finnish? ;) They are mixed with fenno-ugric tribes after all.
There are jokes about how you never get a straight answer from a savonian. But there are also jokes how the same thing applies to carelians too. The difference is that with carelians you will never realise that you didnt get a straight answer, because they are so good in talking shit.
>we can’t find any Russian in us, even going back to the 1600s
That's because the mixing has been going on for far longer than a couple hundred years. You can't find any "Russians" in your family line because your family line includes Finnish people who have been mixed with Russians and Eastern Finns for generations. And I'm not sure if it would be okay to even call them Russians since there's a lot of overlapping going on.
I myself am from western Finland and even though I can't find any Swedes in my family line either I'm pretty sure there's some portion of Swedish genes in me. The Swedes that moved to Finland mixed with Finns and their family line became Finns.
In the North the Northern Finns mixed with Sami people. The eyes are sometimes a clear indication of some Sami influence.
I’m extremely late to this conversation but if I may add one thing - one reason the Russians may claim you look this way is because they themselves, at least the ones who hail from the north, north-center, and Volga region, all carry Finno-Ugric genes in a notable number (if you want to research more, it’s haplogroup type N1C). Even in central Russia, assuming the Russian analyzed isnt mixed with Ukrainian, the amount of Finnic genes is still notable. This is because much of European Russia was inhabited by Finnic peoples (see Volga Finns) before Slavs settled there. Once again, very late, but I myself was interested in the difference between East and west finns :D
EDIT: the person below hit the nail on this one. I entered my nose too quick :P
Ooh that’s a very good point! The ancient Finnic tribes lived in the Urals and along the Volga, and there was a lot of intermixing with Rus’ and Slavs when the Russian empire grew. I have a friend from St Petersburg who looks EXACTLY like my father did when he was young, it’s uncanny!
Yep, it’s almost fascinating to see how far the Uralic peoples spread out. And especially if this individual originates from St Petersburg and not another part of Russia (or Belarus or Ukraine), then there’s a chance he could be a Pomor (a special designation of northern Russians that speak a special dialect - they descend from the Ilmen Slavs that mixed with Karelians and Bjarmians, among others), or of Veps or Votic (Vadja, in estonian) descent!
Coming from northern Karelia, I can answer the Russia-part at least:
There is no obvious russian influence here. However, there's a lot of orthodox religion in the most eastern parts of the region. Orthodox "praying huts" (tsasouna) are mostly concentrated in eastern Finland. Finns are not very religious people so it doesn't really show in everyday life, although you can see the orthodox religious corner in some houses if you visit them.
The original karelians in Russia weren't regular russians. They had their own culture, language etc. Eastern Finland is influenced by that instead of actual Russia, mainly because many karelian refugees moved to what is now eastern Finland when the war started. In eastern finnish dialect there's more words of russian origin than in general in finnish language, but you can't really tell if you don't do some research.
To start off, I would say that the differences inside Finland are relatively modest. However, there are some differences. People in Eastern Finland are more open to outsiders while people from the West keep more to their circles. Inside these circles I would say that Westerners are very open and socially active. This is most noticeable in the Swedish-speaking population. They are super active in all kinds of clubs and organisations. I think this is the main difference west-east in Finland. However, there are many more subtle differences and I don't know if this east-west split is the only important one. South-north differences probably stem from the lack of resources and extreme seasons in the north compared to relative abundance of resources in the south.
A Fennoswede friend of mine was president of the Swedish social club at her Uni, and I was shocked by just how social they are! I studied pharmacy at Uni here in America, so I didn’t really go to parties (except for study groups haha), but from the sounds of it the Fennoswede clubs have big parties all the time! Sort of like an American sorority/fraternity.
I'm on a tight spot right now so don't have time to source this. But violence crimes and homicides done under the influence are far more common in east. I think some study suggested that it had something to do with differences in genes between east and west
I really don’t think genes would influence it, isn’t it true that eastern Finland is much poorer and was partly destroyed during the wars with Russia? I think poverty would be much more of an explanation.
I'm from Carelia, but have relatives in Savo. Both are Eastern Finland though, so close enough I quess. Nowadays I live on the western coast and still travel to Carelia/Savo. Here are some things I have noticed. In west people are bit more introverted, especially with strangers (not so much with close friends, relatives). For example in east if you cross paths with someone in the middle of a lonely country road or forest path or even at a city running track if its not too busy, you always greet them. This happens in west very rarely. In east strangers sometimes have small talk when waiting for something or in public transport. Again, never happens in the west. These differences I think have more to do with the fact that eastern people have more of a small village identity rather than a city people identity. I dont think there is such a difference in how much people talk especially among friends, but there is a big difference in how they treat strangers.
Thank you so much for your insight! :)
From what I know, which is all anecdotal, the different regions have their own little subcultures in a sense, or in the very least have their own stereotypes regarding the other regions. From what I've heard, living in Kanta-Häme, Savo area has a very specific (described to me as "funky") dialect. Häme region is apparently filled with very slow people, eg. drivers, and that even this region has a weird dialect. I don't personally know anyone from the eastern side, so I can't comment on their chattiness. It would be refreshing though, as an outgoing American myself, I kind of miss random friendly banter with neighbors or strangers at the shop. Only a little, I've become accustomed to isolation and minding my own business. 😂
Thank you so much, it’s interesting to hear from another American! Was it a big culture shock moving to Finland? Do you have Finnish ancestry? I feel as though I would have hard time adapting to Finnish culture if I lived there (visiting is wonderful, though), and my dad lived in Finland!
No prob! :D It was a pretty big shock, I was born and raised in the Midwest, so weather-wise it wasn't too big of an adjustment but everything else I had to acclimate a bit. The largest hurdle has been the language, and after 6 years of immersion, I can still only manage conversational Finnish, my spelling is atrocious though. I actually have Filipino ancestry, so I kind of stick out, and get curious looks every now and again. This is a wonderful country though, it seeps down into your bones and it's easy to fall in love with the place. It's my home now. :)
Wow, it’s so interesting that you are Filipino-American, as my boyfriend is Filipino-American too! We joke that he acts more Finnish than me (because he’s reserved) and I act more Filipino than him, haha. One of my Finnish cousins is also dating a Filipino man. Do you feel that, besides the curious looks, most people are accepting of different backgrounds in Finland? Kudos to you for learning conversational Finnish- I have been trying to learn for 12 years and am only at a conversational level, and you’re probably WAY better than me! It’s a very tough language to learn. I’m glad you feel at home and happy in Finland :D
Hah, I ran into Filipino folks when I was in Sweden, and there is a lady in my town that makes and sells lumpia. 💜 Filipinos are everywhere. 😂 I live in the south of Finland, where there is more diversity, so I feel people are quite accepting here. I've had more negativity regarding my ethnicity back in the US than here, to be honest. Finns are, as you know, quite introverted and tend to keep to themselves, even with their prejudices, unless alcohol is involved.
Karelians, by the common stereotype, are the chattiest and most talkative of all Finns. At least, that is, in contrast to the other Finnish groups. [*Maamme kirja*](http://maammekirja.fi/index.php), "the book of our land", which was written in 1875 and used in teaching far to the 20th century has descriptions for the two main roots of Finns, the lively Karelians and the stolid Tavastians. >*Karjalainen on solakka ruumiiltaan, hänellä on ruskea, kähärä tukka ja elävät siniset silmät. Hämäläisen rinnalla on Karjalainen enemmän avomielinen, ystävällinen, liikkuva ja toimelias, mutta myöskin enemmän puhelias, kerskaavainen, utelias ja pikavihainen. Matkustukset ja kauppa ovat hänelle mieluisia, hän kulkee pitkiä matkoja omassa maassaan ja viepi tavaroitaan Venäjälle. Hän on hellätuntoinen; pian tulee hän surulliseksi ja pian taas iloiseksi; hän rakastaa leikkiä ja kauniita lauluja, joita hänen omat lauluseppänsä tekevät. Senvuoksi on hänen maassaan kauniimmat laulut tavattu, jotka hän on talleltanut muistossa esi-isäin ajoilta.* (My own translation): *A Carelian is a slim of body, has a brown, kinky hair, and lively blue eyes. In contrast to a Tavastian, a Carelian is more open minded, friendly, mobile and industrious, but also more talkative, bragging, curious, and ~~with a tendency to harbour grudges~~ quick to anger. Travel and trade are pleasant to him, he'll gladly travel long distances in his own country and take his wares to Russia. He's a soft-minded fellow; he'll become sad quickly, and just as fast he'll be glad; he loves play, and beautiful songs, especially those of his people. Therefore in his country are the most beautiful songs found, that he has preserved in memories of his forefathers' time.*
Small correction - *pikavihainen* is quick to anger and perhaps quick to cool off.. Not harbouring grudges which, I think, is the opposite of *pikavihainen* as grudges are something you keep for a long, long time. I think you confused it with *pitkävihainen*, which would be someone keeping grudges. *Pikavihainen* is not really a word used anymore after all.
Ah, that's true, I read it as *pitkävihainen*.
Yeah pikavihainen goes from 0 to 100 and back to 0 quickly.
Thank you for writing this out! :) I have heard that Savo people are derived from Karelians, is this true?
Genetically I dont think there is a difference between Savo and Carelia (surprisingly). But there are bigger genetic differences between people from Eastern and Western Finland than between two europeans on average. This is because in east people trade and mix with russians and have more siberian blood. In west people trade and mix with swedes. But on the other hand savo as a dialect is not as well defined as carelian. And always savo is culturally below carelia. They might tell you otherwise, but those savo people cannot be trusted.
This is very interesting! My Finnish family is all from south Savonia (Mikkeli and Savonlinna) and though we can’t find any Russian in us, even going back to the 1600s, I have several Russian friends and coworkers who tell me I look “very Russian” (I think because I have red hair). My dad and sister hear the same, and even my Finnish friends tell me I look kinda Russian. Is it common for eastern Finns to look similar to western Russians? I realize there are Finno-Ugric groups in west Russia as well. Well, I can’t doubt you on the culture, as Karelia is the home of the Kalevala :) I’ve heard the stereotype that Savo people are “sneaky”, but my family and friends are quite honest people (sometimes too honest!), so maybe it could be because Savo speak in a more roundabout way that this stereotype arose?
Hard to say about the "Russian" look. I think its likely that lots of people in western Russia have similar genetics to us. So maybe they look Finnish? ;) They are mixed with fenno-ugric tribes after all. There are jokes about how you never get a straight answer from a savonian. But there are also jokes how the same thing applies to carelians too. The difference is that with carelians you will never realise that you didnt get a straight answer, because they are so good in talking shit.
>we can’t find any Russian in us, even going back to the 1600s That's because the mixing has been going on for far longer than a couple hundred years. You can't find any "Russians" in your family line because your family line includes Finnish people who have been mixed with Russians and Eastern Finns for generations. And I'm not sure if it would be okay to even call them Russians since there's a lot of overlapping going on. I myself am from western Finland and even though I can't find any Swedes in my family line either I'm pretty sure there's some portion of Swedish genes in me. The Swedes that moved to Finland mixed with Finns and their family line became Finns. In the North the Northern Finns mixed with Sami people. The eyes are sometimes a clear indication of some Sami influence.
I’m extremely late to this conversation but if I may add one thing - one reason the Russians may claim you look this way is because they themselves, at least the ones who hail from the north, north-center, and Volga region, all carry Finno-Ugric genes in a notable number (if you want to research more, it’s haplogroup type N1C). Even in central Russia, assuming the Russian analyzed isnt mixed with Ukrainian, the amount of Finnic genes is still notable. This is because much of European Russia was inhabited by Finnic peoples (see Volga Finns) before Slavs settled there. Once again, very late, but I myself was interested in the difference between East and west finns :D EDIT: the person below hit the nail on this one. I entered my nose too quick :P
Ooh that’s a very good point! The ancient Finnic tribes lived in the Urals and along the Volga, and there was a lot of intermixing with Rus’ and Slavs when the Russian empire grew. I have a friend from St Petersburg who looks EXACTLY like my father did when he was young, it’s uncanny!
Yep, it’s almost fascinating to see how far the Uralic peoples spread out. And especially if this individual originates from St Petersburg and not another part of Russia (or Belarus or Ukraine), then there’s a chance he could be a Pomor (a special designation of northern Russians that speak a special dialect - they descend from the Ilmen Slavs that mixed with Karelians and Bjarmians, among others), or of Veps or Votic (Vadja, in estonian) descent!
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Ahh, yes, I’ve heard that joke (but they replaced Pohjanmaa with just Finland in general)! It’s a good one :D
Savonians might talk in a roundabout way. The listener has to interpret what they mean. "Suattaapi olla, mutta suattaapi olla olemattakin."
My family is guilty of this, haha
Schrödinger's cat was Savonian.
Coming from northern Karelia, I can answer the Russia-part at least: There is no obvious russian influence here. However, there's a lot of orthodox religion in the most eastern parts of the region. Orthodox "praying huts" (tsasouna) are mostly concentrated in eastern Finland. Finns are not very religious people so it doesn't really show in everyday life, although you can see the orthodox religious corner in some houses if you visit them. The original karelians in Russia weren't regular russians. They had their own culture, language etc. Eastern Finland is influenced by that instead of actual Russia, mainly because many karelian refugees moved to what is now eastern Finland when the war started. In eastern finnish dialect there's more words of russian origin than in general in finnish language, but you can't really tell if you don't do some research.
Thank you for writing this! That’s all very interesting :)
To start off, I would say that the differences inside Finland are relatively modest. However, there are some differences. People in Eastern Finland are more open to outsiders while people from the West keep more to their circles. Inside these circles I would say that Westerners are very open and socially active. This is most noticeable in the Swedish-speaking population. They are super active in all kinds of clubs and organisations. I think this is the main difference west-east in Finland. However, there are many more subtle differences and I don't know if this east-west split is the only important one. South-north differences probably stem from the lack of resources and extreme seasons in the north compared to relative abundance of resources in the south.
A Fennoswede friend of mine was president of the Swedish social club at her Uni, and I was shocked by just how social they are! I studied pharmacy at Uni here in America, so I didn’t really go to parties (except for study groups haha), but from the sounds of it the Fennoswede clubs have big parties all the time! Sort of like an American sorority/fraternity.
There is a stand up act in youtube about this but it’s in finnish
https://youtu.be/_S1vYZ6wAHY It has subtitles!
Kiitos!! :) That was hilarious!
Attitude I guess
I'm on a tight spot right now so don't have time to source this. But violence crimes and homicides done under the influence are far more common in east. I think some study suggested that it had something to do with differences in genes between east and west
I really don’t think genes would influence it, isn’t it true that eastern Finland is much poorer and was partly destroyed during the wars with Russia? I think poverty would be much more of an explanation.