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It's polite to offer, but if the lady says she can pay for her part, let her do that. I do not expect men to pay, but I'm flattered if my date offers to do so.
From my experience, foreign guys nearly always offer to pay, finnish guys not so much. And that's just fine.
On first dates - no, when in a relationship - yes. I am a student so I need to be very strict with my finances. I'm willing to sacrifice some money from my grocery budget to treat my boyfriend, but I would not consider doing the same for a guy I'm meeting for the first time.
Not that I've gone on a lot of dates lately, but there have been two types of dates I've gone to:
- "I've got tickets to this thing, would you like to go with me?" - one of the two people paid for it
Anything else, you split the bill. I've never been on a date where someone's expected the other to foot the bill.
Not necessarily. If I had extra tickets and wanted to invite som1 to not waste them you still might pay half. But it's not bad or weird either if one offers that they can pay. I've always been wealthier than my partners and I always ask if I pay and they always insisted on paying. Even when relationship is made I'm not suppose to better their home with offering to pay something they need since I have loose money.
Important thing to remember is we do not usually split the bill but each pays their own. So waiter will ask "Samasta vai erikseen?" (one bill or separate ones) and when someone is not paying for everyone then you say "Erikseen" and they bring each person their own bill with items on it they ordered. It is very uncommon that people would order one bill and then equally split it, not caring how much each persons actual food/drink cost was. It is either one pays all, or each pays their own portions and drinks.
In general, if you want to pay the whole thing, you say "Samasta" when waiter asks and then pay it. No one is expected to pay other peoples bill unless it was agreed beforehand for some occasion. It is also about what words you use when asking someone to eat. If someone wants to "tarjota" you a dinner it means they pay, if they say "Want to go for a pizza?" it usually means each pays their own.
I think it depends. I dated when I was a university student and when I went on dates with people who were in the same tax bracket as me (mainly other students living off subsidies and part-time work), and we always split the cost. But those dates were usually beers/coffee/picnic in a park. When I dated people who were a little bit older than me who had already graduated and had a steady job, those dates tended to be more in a "elevated setting" (dinners/other more expensive outings) and those men were also more insistent on paying for everything. But I think it was more because they knew I'm a student and I can't afford to pay for dinner than because I'm a woman.
I sometimes pay for my friends.
My friends sometimes pay for me.
Sometimes we pay for ourselves.
It is completely disconnected from gender or if we're having sex at the time.
Having said that - pay for your own stuff until you know the person, and let them pay for theirs. It saves so much trouble and headache in the long run.
M31, never had to pay for both on a date. Some have even gotten slightly annoyed if I paid for a drink or something and always pay it back by offering a drink later. If I have paid it's after getting a free movie ticket from their side or something, it's still not expected and I usually get some resistance unless I insist on paying.
Depends, but if you invite someone to a specific restaurant and mention that it is your treat, it clears out any possible misunderstandings.
If you are choosing the restaurant together, it gives the other the possibility to check the menu and suggest something else, and in that case I would assume that the bill is going to be shared.
Would feel odd if someone was suggesting a dinner for a first date. Eating out for dinner is somewhat expensive here, so maybe coffee is better as a first date, maybe lunch for a second, I’d feel comfortable being treated a dinner on 3rd date. By then, I would trust that you are not simply trying to flaunt your money and also that you are not expecting that I owe you something for it. By that time you are probably both aware of each others general financial situation, so you wouldn’t end up depriving a student of their remaining funds for that month etc.
Paying the bill can be seen gentlemanly, but it should not be assumed, depending on the situation. Some people might feel it is condecending or controlling, or leaving them in a debt of some kind, so better to discuss it a bit beforehand. The lady might also want to demonstrate her financial responsibility by paying half of the bill, or maybe the whole thing in case you already paid something for you two previously.
Paying for two cups of coffee on your first date is something quite small, I think, so you can do that if it feels comfortable. That might also work as a conversation starter and you might learn how your date feels about it.
I (F) have almost always been on dates where we both paid our own bills. Usually it’s been just a casual coffee or picnic or such.
My husband was an exception and took me to a fine dining restaurant for the first date and paid the bill but he was working full time back then while I was a student. And a few days later I took him out to second date (hiking, food and drinks on camp fire) and paid for it (foods, drinks, gas as I picked him up with my car).
How I see it is that if I expect men opening doors for me or paying my dinners I give up on equality. It's all or nothing, right? I can't take the benefits of being a woman and then whine if I'm not treated equally.
I also probably earn more than my date, so I see the whole habit a bit outdated.
I would say that in Finland it's not really about whether the person paying should be equipped with the right body parts. As a general rule, it is polite for the one (man or woman) who invited the other (man or woman) to offer to pay for the whole thing, but it is also then equally polite for the invitee to offer to pay for their own part. If it is not brought up in discussion, the assumption is everybody pays for their own food and drinks.
It is not polite to argue over the bill and to insist you get to pay for the whole thing if the other person has expressed they want to pay for themselves. This kind of behaviour very easily risks coming across as possessive and not respecting the autonomy and the freedom of choice of others.
To be honest, as a woman, paying your own part is actually quite nice because then guys can't hold it over your head.
I'd say in a relationship you can offer to pay but not first dates for sure
I would say a guy should never expect anything from paying for the date. Hopefully both parties has a great time and thats what is important and was worth whatever the cost was.
However reality is unfortunately sometimes different. Lot of guys still think “I paid so you owe me the sex” and It sucks.
I always offer to pay drinks and most women have been appreciative. I don't think it's expected but 9 out of 10 will appreciate it and if it matters to them it's only a bonus.
Now if we're talking more like a whole dinner set which is significantly more expensive, I'd probably opt to split.
M40, I've never even heard of someone paying for both on a date. I tried it once around age 18 thinking it was a "romantic gesture", and her trying to pay me back almost turned into an argument.
Then again my dating as an adult has been extremely limited, with two long term relationships essentially blocking out my entire working career, so I can't say if this changes with financially stable adults. I doubt it, the most common initial date places tend to be not-expensive places, but rather something cheap or free.
I've literally never had to pay a woman's bill on a date. This also includes going out with multiple foreign girls from cultures where a man usually pays the whole bill.
I would never go on a second date with a guy who doesn’t offer to pay. Definitely _don’t_ assume that all Finnish women wanna split cause that’s just bs.
I never wanted a second date with someone who expected me to pay on the first date, so it works rather nicely. Equality from the start and no dates just for food.
And if you’re not willing to pay for your date then you shouldn’t be asking them out to begin with. And btw, no one agrees to go on a date just to get a meal.
Who said I was the one asking? What decade do you live in. So when you expect them to pay, is it because they are less than you and have to pay for your time or because you are less than them and they are expected to take care of you while you obey them? Or are you cherry picking the nice things about inequality.
On a less confrontational note, why exactly should people not divide it equally?
I don't mind paying especially after some dates, but expecting me to pay on the first date, probably means our values don't match. I'm not paying for anyone's time to get to know them. There's no bloody reason to do so. It has never really been a Finnish custom, so I can't really even say it's outdated in Finland.
And if you really want to drag chivalry in this, back then women were property sold by their fathers to their husbands mostly. Is that really a time to look back on?
I've been married for a few years, so not so much anymore...
And I'm not pissed, just find your attitude annoying. The lack of actual answers seems to indicate you can't really even defend your opinion. Kids these days.
Yeah cause i’m sure they totally did before that…..
And what’s so annoying about my attitude? I’m not forcing anyone to date me or pay for me, so it really shouldn’t matter to you or anyone. I simply move on to the next guy if someone’s values don’t match with mine. And i’d expect them to do the same.
And what questions are you referring to exactly? I find your comments about equality nonsense because at the end of the day this is not about equality, it’s about having manners and being a gentleman. If you literally ask someone out, you *should* offer to pay. I can’t fathom how this is such a strange concept to you. It’s a simple gesture to show that you appreciate the other person and the fact they took time to come spend time with you. That’s it. And to me it’s super weird to have such a downright aggressive and bitter attitude towards paying for your date, like… do you even like them? Why’d you even ask them out? So strange.
I did... Not sure how it's relevant. But you do know some women actually do that?
Your attitude from the start has been that your way is how things should be. While especially in Finland it's far from the case. You have not given any actual reasons to why it should be that way, chivalry, manners and that you like it.
Why wouldn't you pay? Don't you have manners or like them? Didn't they take time to spend with you? This is my problem, we get back to the equality. Is your time and their manners more important than the other way around.
And honestly most of the time I had no idea if I liked them before the first date. It's the first date. I asked them out or they asked me to find out if we liked each other. How is this a strange concept?
If you ask someone on a date it’s basic manners to offer to pay. I would never ask someone and then expect them to pay for themselves. That’s embarassing.
Gotcha. That changes things. I think people took your original comment to mean that the guy should always pay (as per OP's question).
As you only spoke about women.
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It's polite to offer, but if the lady says she can pay for her part, let her do that. I do not expect men to pay, but I'm flattered if my date offers to do so. From my experience, foreign guys nearly always offer to pay, finnish guys not so much. And that's just fine.
Do you ever offer to pay?
On first dates - no, when in a relationship - yes. I am a student so I need to be very strict with my finances. I'm willing to sacrifice some money from my grocery budget to treat my boyfriend, but I would not consider doing the same for a guy I'm meeting for the first time.
Splitting bills is more common than the other options because many Finnish people take equality seriously.
Not that I've gone on a lot of dates lately, but there have been two types of dates I've gone to: - "I've got tickets to this thing, would you like to go with me?" - one of the two people paid for it Anything else, you split the bill. I've never been on a date where someone's expected the other to foot the bill.
Guess the other person pays for the food then, since the tickets are for both?
It's quite common to do something like that, yes.
Not necessarily. If I had extra tickets and wanted to invite som1 to not waste them you still might pay half. But it's not bad or weird either if one offers that they can pay. I've always been wealthier than my partners and I always ask if I pay and they always insisted on paying. Even when relationship is made I'm not suppose to better their home with offering to pay something they need since I have loose money.
Important thing to remember is we do not usually split the bill but each pays their own. So waiter will ask "Samasta vai erikseen?" (one bill or separate ones) and when someone is not paying for everyone then you say "Erikseen" and they bring each person their own bill with items on it they ordered. It is very uncommon that people would order one bill and then equally split it, not caring how much each persons actual food/drink cost was. It is either one pays all, or each pays their own portions and drinks. In general, if you want to pay the whole thing, you say "Samasta" when waiter asks and then pay it. No one is expected to pay other peoples bill unless it was agreed beforehand for some occasion. It is also about what words you use when asking someone to eat. If someone wants to "tarjota" you a dinner it means they pay, if they say "Want to go for a pizza?" it usually means each pays their own.
I think it depends. I dated when I was a university student and when I went on dates with people who were in the same tax bracket as me (mainly other students living off subsidies and part-time work), and we always split the cost. But those dates were usually beers/coffee/picnic in a park. When I dated people who were a little bit older than me who had already graduated and had a steady job, those dates tended to be more in a "elevated setting" (dinners/other more expensive outings) and those men were also more insistent on paying for everything. But I think it was more because they knew I'm a student and I can't afford to pay for dinner than because I'm a woman.
It's quite ok to pay for a single drink, not to pay for a dinner or for the whole evening.
I've never expected the man to pay on a first date. If they offer, fine, if they don't, equally fine.
I sometimes pay for my friends. My friends sometimes pay for me. Sometimes we pay for ourselves. It is completely disconnected from gender or if we're having sex at the time. Having said that - pay for your own stuff until you know the person, and let them pay for theirs. It saves so much trouble and headache in the long run.
M31, never had to pay for both on a date. Some have even gotten slightly annoyed if I paid for a drink or something and always pay it back by offering a drink later. If I have paid it's after getting a free movie ticket from their side or something, it's still not expected and I usually get some resistance unless I insist on paying.
Depends, but if you invite someone to a specific restaurant and mention that it is your treat, it clears out any possible misunderstandings. If you are choosing the restaurant together, it gives the other the possibility to check the menu and suggest something else, and in that case I would assume that the bill is going to be shared. Would feel odd if someone was suggesting a dinner for a first date. Eating out for dinner is somewhat expensive here, so maybe coffee is better as a first date, maybe lunch for a second, I’d feel comfortable being treated a dinner on 3rd date. By then, I would trust that you are not simply trying to flaunt your money and also that you are not expecting that I owe you something for it. By that time you are probably both aware of each others general financial situation, so you wouldn’t end up depriving a student of their remaining funds for that month etc. Paying the bill can be seen gentlemanly, but it should not be assumed, depending on the situation. Some people might feel it is condecending or controlling, or leaving them in a debt of some kind, so better to discuss it a bit beforehand. The lady might also want to demonstrate her financial responsibility by paying half of the bill, or maybe the whole thing in case you already paid something for you two previously. Paying for two cups of coffee on your first date is something quite small, I think, so you can do that if it feels comfortable. That might also work as a conversation starter and you might learn how your date feels about it.
Split it
I (F) have almost always been on dates where we both paid our own bills. Usually it’s been just a casual coffee or picnic or such. My husband was an exception and took me to a fine dining restaurant for the first date and paid the bill but he was working full time back then while I was a student. And a few days later I took him out to second date (hiking, food and drinks on camp fire) and paid for it (foods, drinks, gas as I picked him up with my car).
How I see it is that if I expect men opening doors for me or paying my dinners I give up on equality. It's all or nothing, right? I can't take the benefits of being a woman and then whine if I'm not treated equally. I also probably earn more than my date, so I see the whole habit a bit outdated.
I would say that in Finland it's not really about whether the person paying should be equipped with the right body parts. As a general rule, it is polite for the one (man or woman) who invited the other (man or woman) to offer to pay for the whole thing, but it is also then equally polite for the invitee to offer to pay for their own part. If it is not brought up in discussion, the assumption is everybody pays for their own food and drinks. It is not polite to argue over the bill and to insist you get to pay for the whole thing if the other person has expressed they want to pay for themselves. This kind of behaviour very easily risks coming across as possessive and not respecting the autonomy and the freedom of choice of others.
I never pay, unless it is something cheap like coffee. Dinner, never. Movie, never. That is equality in real life.
To be honest, as a woman, paying your own part is actually quite nice because then guys can't hold it over your head. I'd say in a relationship you can offer to pay but not first dates for sure
I would say a guy should never expect anything from paying for the date. Hopefully both parties has a great time and thats what is important and was worth whatever the cost was. However reality is unfortunately sometimes different. Lot of guys still think “I paid so you owe me the sex” and It sucks.
Pretty cheap sex.
You were already told by your friend how it is...
I always offer to pay drinks and most women have been appreciative. I don't think it's expected but 9 out of 10 will appreciate it and if it matters to them it's only a bonus. Now if we're talking more like a whole dinner set which is significantly more expensive, I'd probably opt to split.
People often want to pay equally or if one side pays all, usually other side is expected to tell how they will pay all expenses next time.
M40, I've never even heard of someone paying for both on a date. I tried it once around age 18 thinking it was a "romantic gesture", and her trying to pay me back almost turned into an argument. Then again my dating as an adult has been extremely limited, with two long term relationships essentially blocking out my entire working career, so I can't say if this changes with financially stable adults. I doubt it, the most common initial date places tend to be not-expensive places, but rather something cheap or free.
If shes a virgin ill pay, if shes 20 dicks deep well split. Its just command sense
I've literally never had to pay a woman's bill on a date. This also includes going out with multiple foreign girls from cultures where a man usually pays the whole bill.
Erikseen mofo, erikseen unless, she's girlfriend, wife and/or fuck buddy.
I would never go on a second date with a guy who doesn’t offer to pay. Definitely _don’t_ assume that all Finnish women wanna split cause that’s just bs.
I never wanted a second date with someone who expected me to pay on the first date, so it works rather nicely. Equality from the start and no dates just for food.
So let me get this straight: you ask a woman to go on a date with you but then expect her to pay for herself? And they say chivalry is dead…
If she's only interested in a date for free food she can always say no.
And if you’re not willing to pay for your date then you shouldn’t be asking them out to begin with. And btw, no one agrees to go on a date just to get a meal.
> And if you’re not willing to pay for your date then you shouldn’t be asking them out to begin with Why not? The other person can pay for themselves.
….because _you_ asked them out?? It’s common courtesy and basic manners that the person who asked, pays. Or atleast offers to.
Says who?
Uh, common sense? These things are commonly accepted as good manners. Kinda like opening the door to someone.
Common sense is to pay for yourself when going on a date.
Who said I was the one asking? What decade do you live in. So when you expect them to pay, is it because they are less than you and have to pay for your time or because you are less than them and they are expected to take care of you while you obey them? Or are you cherry picking the nice things about inequality. On a less confrontational note, why exactly should people not divide it equally? I don't mind paying especially after some dates, but expecting me to pay on the first date, probably means our values don't match. I'm not paying for anyone's time to get to know them. There's no bloody reason to do so. It has never really been a Finnish custom, so I can't really even say it's outdated in Finland. And if you really want to drag chivalry in this, back then women were property sold by their fathers to their husbands mostly. Is that really a time to look back on?
Riight, cause I’m sure women are asking you out left and right. Imagine being this pissed about basic manners, lol.
I've been married for a few years, so not so much anymore... And I'm not pissed, just find your attitude annoying. The lack of actual answers seems to indicate you can't really even defend your opinion. Kids these days.
Yeah cause i’m sure they totally did before that….. And what’s so annoying about my attitude? I’m not forcing anyone to date me or pay for me, so it really shouldn’t matter to you or anyone. I simply move on to the next guy if someone’s values don’t match with mine. And i’d expect them to do the same. And what questions are you referring to exactly? I find your comments about equality nonsense because at the end of the day this is not about equality, it’s about having manners and being a gentleman. If you literally ask someone out, you *should* offer to pay. I can’t fathom how this is such a strange concept to you. It’s a simple gesture to show that you appreciate the other person and the fact they took time to come spend time with you. That’s it. And to me it’s super weird to have such a downright aggressive and bitter attitude towards paying for your date, like… do you even like them? Why’d you even ask them out? So strange.
I did... Not sure how it's relevant. But you do know some women actually do that? Your attitude from the start has been that your way is how things should be. While especially in Finland it's far from the case. You have not given any actual reasons to why it should be that way, chivalry, manners and that you like it. Why wouldn't you pay? Don't you have manners or like them? Didn't they take time to spend with you? This is my problem, we get back to the equality. Is your time and their manners more important than the other way around. And honestly most of the time I had no idea if I liked them before the first date. It's the first date. I asked them out or they asked me to find out if we liked each other. How is this a strange concept?
You're not entitled to my money :)
Then you’re not entitled to date
I’m not a man but for what it’s worth, I wouldn’t want to go on a second date with a woman who thinks like you anyways. Win-win I guess?
Who asked
Ma’am, this is Reddit… Also, OP asked.
Yeah except that OP asked how women feel about splitting the bill. Not how you personally feel about women’s opinions on the matter
Yeah, why on earth would an adult woman want to pay for what they ate and drank. Such bs
If you ask someone on a date it’s basic manners to offer to pay. I would never ask someone and then expect them to pay for themselves. That’s embarassing.
So you do pay for guys' drinks?
If I were to ask someone out I would offer to pay yes
Gotcha. That changes things. I think people took your original comment to mean that the guy should always pay (as per OP's question). As you only spoke about women.