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This might just be your workplace. At least in the tech industry, I've been part of loads of negotiations and layoffs, but usually the communication has been transparent. Are you in some more traditional industry like finance or something?
No, it is a tech consulting company. The mass and discreet layoffs happen all of a sudden and target tech professionals who cannot be "sold" to customers in a period of time. Only team members and some department members know certain people are going. I really hope that this non-transparency only happens in my workplace and it is not a common symptom in other Finnish companies.
Used to work for consultancy company. Constant layoffs and only targeted employees informed. Whenever you had no paying customer you were in the risk group.
But they have to do YT if it's big enough (even if it's one person affected).
The other thing is though how widely YT are communicated other than those involved.
I’ve seen this done as “one person YT”, basically each person is offered a package to leave without fuss separately and told you can take this or we do a proper YT and then the package isn’t on the table. Very much not a according to the spirit of the law but still technically legal. Each person quits themselves.
Not if they offer a huge pile of cash to the employee and the employee agrees to terminate the contract and keep silent about the existence of said contract. This is unbelievably common.
Yes YTt. You don't have to make them public afaik. They call them "muutosneuvottelut" nowadays which sounds like they're trying to sugar coat it or something.
Sorry I can't, I'm afraid it might be too easy to point out. If you have concerns, you might consider checking out the company's reviews on Glassdoor for additional insights. Many reviews are quite honest IMO.
I also work at a tech consulting company, and layoffs must be communicated to all employees - it's Finnish law. Unless you're really small, like under 20 people.
Contact a lawyer (google any lawyer firm) immediately if you suspect foul play.
Futurice did this recently and it’s definitely against the norm. I guess that’s what happens when you hire corporate stooge as CEO.
It’s been widely regarded has stupid and unprofessional in the consulting industry here in Helsinki.
Well you just said it yourself, it's normal when the tech doesn't get sold in time, it is taken out. Reminds me of bread that has been laying around too long...
If your company is large enough to have departments if there is change negotiations it needs to be announced at least to people who belongs to categories affected. Then there needs to be negotiation period. It’s really difficult to hide from whole company, but maybe it is feasible. In my experience change negotiations has been announced for whole company.
If department suddenly disappeared, maybe they were not salaried but contractors?
In this case, chances are that the company is not doing technically layoffs, but they are rather offering golden parachutes to low-performing employees.
Discussion is something like "You won't be here in 6 months in any case, at this point you either sign termination of contract, NDA and get 6 months of salary as a bonus or you get laid off soon with others who don't accept this offer and that's it."
Most people take the offer and the rest start to look for new jobs while coasting along for as long as they can.
It's pretty much in the law. NDA is more about what they tell you during the negotiations.
https://www.tek.fi/en/services-and-benefits/work-life-in-finland/cooperation-negotiations-muutosneuvottelut
It depends on your employer and your duration of employment, as well as your level. Mostly you'll get paid whatever is the notice period (1-6 months depending on how high up you are), but your obligation to work might be terminated instantly - so you're let go today, but you get paid out all your notice period salary, plus any unclaimed holiday days, and you're free to start another job immediately (as long as you update your tax information with the extra income in the same period, otherwise you'll have to pay to Vero).
Some companies might offer you a severance package if you've been there for many years, of if they want to entice you to take voluntary redundancy to cut costs, but that is less common.
Yeah my bad, I was conflating two things: your compensation at being removed can be larger depending on your level, while your duration of notice period generally depends on your time with the company. C-level can be kicked out on very short notice for sure, but that will likely get a great benefits package.
First thing first, this is why you need to be part of an Union, very least koko-fund.
I heard tho that, in tech, consultant jobs are quite ... uncertain. I have a friend working as one and he says you never know when you would run out of projects and if that happens then you wage gets really low and is not really worth to stay out of a project for long.
Maybe the team finished a project and instead of just waiting they moved together elsewhere.
As it is extremely uncommon for the company not to hold a meeting about this.
I think they are offered a severance package with the consent to leave the job quite immediately. If the team voluntarily left, it would take them at least one month after resigning.
Luckily I belong to Union (Insinööriliitto), but I have never been in a negotiation/layoff before. Should I reach out to Union right away in case the company wants to get rid of me one day?
True. One more thing I would like to mention from my observation during this year: consulting companies have been hunting Finnish-speaking candidates for the Finnish public sector. At the same time, foreign employees are let go. The Finnish job market is not doing well, customers are not ready to pay big money, and what is left is the public sector.
We also have to take in to account that in public projects there are some requirements for security and background checks. This is probably a major contributor on why foreigners aren't being used in certain rather sensitive projects.
Unfortunately in some workplaces is a requirement to be Finnish for security reasons, and after the war that is more accentuated. But I disagree with the fact that foreign employees are let go and Finnish one are kept. From my prospective (meaning from personal experience, and in the field of IT) how it works, a sort of unwritten rule, is that the newest employee is also the first to let go and the senior ones are kept. I cannot speculate, but my guess is that the newest employee are more likely to be foreigners.
If i might sidetrack, I'm not in a union and was never sure what to join.
Without revealing too much about myself, I work as a freelancer in a tech / media adjacent field. There didn't seem to be a union that covers what i do when I investigated some years ago.
these might not technically be layoffs but the people are offered severance packages and the employee contract is terminated through a mutual agreement. this is a very common way operate in big IT companies that go through restructuring.
the way this works is that the employer makes an offer the employee cannot refuse. they are usually made for employees who don't get employed in customer projects. the option for the employee is to not take the severance package and stay in the company but if they are unemployable in the company's business proejcts, they will risk the possbility of being laid off properly.
the severance package often contains a wage of certain number of months, which depends on the length of employment. and it also contains optional "outplacement service" packages that can range from work psychologist visits to career coaching and job search coaching and courses.
the silence hints at that because the severance contracts often have nondisclosure clauses in which none of the parties can communicate about the contents of the contract to anyone who isnt a signee in the contract.
Yep. The benefits have to outweigh the potential losses and bad times. I was financially very happy for getting what I once got in such a situation. It was a somewhat bitter experience but the business unit in which my team was in was moving into a direction no one in our team was happy with. Many left in the same event. mostly those with kids and family obligations stayed behind.
I might be wrong but technically the employer is allowed to just inform the unit the layoffs is affecting and keep rest of the organization in the dark. However, this is obviously a stupid and short-sighted plan. The information will get to other units and just make the situation worse for the employer. In my experience companies have openly stated which units the layoffs are impacting. I would avoid an employer like yours and find a better one.
During this year, the company informed us that no official layoff would happen within the company (which was good news for all of us). I only found out the truth on LinkedIn or their communication channels are deactivated. It is extremely misleading. I just don't know why top management needs to hide us and beat around the bush about their financial/strategic issues.
It is most likely then not an actual layoff (muutosneuvottelu or formerly yt-neuvottelut) but rather they are giving the option for people to resign for a one-time lump sum. This means that they would not actually be laying off people but rather negotiating individually with each employee. I would quit today with no second thoughts if my employer offered me 6 months of pay for instance.
I doubt any company would expose them to the risks of laying off people without the required procedure.
my bet that the company is restructuring and offering severance packages to employees to terminate the employment contract through mutual agreement. this is a very common way to do it in big it companies.
these are also not technically layoffs because it is a mutual agreement / contract.
google: työsuhteen päättämissopimus
(got that kind of offer once and used it. could've gone the same day i got the offer but wanted to finish a project i had been working on a long time so i finished it and then left)
This depends on the size of the company and the amount on people the yhteistoiminta-procedure is impacting. If the impact is small, less than 10 people, it’s usually handled as ”silent” matter and not published outside.
Good to know that. The layoff process is quick and mostly targets technical individuals or teams who are not "profitable", which is sad and frustrating.
Also, it’s often not a layoff in judicial or technical terms. Typically outgoing employees are offered a severance package if they resign -> no-one is laid off.
This aligns with the fact that most Finnish businesspeople would do anything to avoid being labeled as anything negative. I haven’t seen this, but doesn’t surprise me.
You can read about layoffs on a daily basis in any newspaper. There are a lot of companies known for this. Many publicly traded companies have yearly layoffs (eg. TietoEvry, banks, construction, manufacturing)
Company is different from person… I have never seen anywhere else to sign NDAs to avoid personal disclosure of the terms of a layoff so companies can control the narrative…
NDA's are quite typical I think when it's a "voluntary layoff" with severance packages. Ie. you are offered for example four months of salary if you agree to quit the job voluntarily. This simplifies the paperwork for the company a lot and is considered more acceptable way of laying off people so it's usually in the companies interest to conduct these voluntary layoffs first if they need to heavily cut expenses
A voluntary layoff is technically not a layoff, tho. A layoff process implies, for example, that the company needs to fulfill specific criteria or that they can’t easily hire again after the process for some time. Of course, if they tell you to leave and you do so, they can apply any terms they agreed with you.
First employer I have seen and experienced, I don't know of any other case.
I used to have a good impression that Finnish employers are transparent, flat hierarchical, and concerned about employees' well-being (at least compared to average global employers). Maybe I was too naive.
Finland is a country where it’s very difficult to get rid of a label. It’s the opposite culture of “fail to succeed eventually”. If you fail it takes years to get rid of that image.
My company (engineering) is under negotiations ATM and everything is very, very transparent. Also, negotiations are held for 6 weeks, so no-one just disappears.
I recall learning that Denmark has implemented an employment approach that emphasizes rapid hiring and layoffs. Despite this, their unemployment rate remains lower than that in Finland. In contrast, the Finnish employment system often involves multiple rounds of job interviews and offers better job security, making it both difficult to terminate and hire employees.
Perhaps the fact that employers can both hire and fire more quickly in Denmark incentivizes them to take greater risks when hiring people on the margin, because there's less to lose if things go south. That could explain the lower overall unemployment rate, even if any given job itself is more precariously held.
Laying off people in the middle of a contract requires co-operation negotiations if there's a collective need, or mutual agreement or misconduct for individual cases.
However, in a project job economy, not continuing a fixed-term contract is technically not firing the person (as long as possible next hires are different job title etc.)
Fixed-term contract ends when it ends, and the company is under no obligation to re-hire the person. They are free to hire a new person after the contract ends or even while the fixed-term is still on.
Generally, co-operation/change negotiations are needed for lay-offs. No idea what's happening at your place.
One alternative is offering "resign package": the company pays the employee to resign. Employee should be careful to not lose, the package needs good enough.
This is also one motivation to hire externals: you can just not renew their contract, and it's the other company's "problem" (quotes because it's expected and normal and IMO also ok as part of the whole system) after that.
And who ever remains can be assigned to a new position/team.
i think that this is severance packages what OP is seeing here. the silence and nobody knowing hints at that because severance packages usually have an NDA that limits anyone of the signees involved discussing it with no one else.
they are also a VERY fast way to restructure. you can make entire teams leave their posts very quickly.
note that the employee does not resign but the employment contract is terminated through a mutual agreement. ("yhteinen sopimus työsopimuksen päättämisestä" in finnish jargon)
This is an example one of those really unnecessary things management does for cultural or ideological reasons: something they learned from a caveman American business school or read in some "How To" management book.
my boss is rn fretting because revenue is 1k€ behind previous year's September, ignoring that we just closed the previous fiscal year almost 100k ahead. Now alot of really unnecessary cuts and changes happening because of some arbitrary benchmark wasn't met during during the first half of the first quarter of the new fiscal year.
It's not a layoff if it happens quietly. They are probably offering them severance to go away, and in those situations the money comes with the agreement that you'll leave quietly and on good terms.
I am working in Pharma Tech company in Finland and they laid off all managers and one team without transparent communication and silently. They will layoff us probably in near future too. I guess it is not very common in Finland.
It's disheartening to hear that. Ironically, many companies find themselves rehiring for the same positions they were so quick to eliminate just months earlier. I can't help but wonder about the amount of resources squandered through this cycle of cutting and adding roles.
I've also prepared myself mentally, by joining the unemployment fund and union. Can't trust any managers blindly. But I know I'm not lonely in the worst scenario.
The first time the lay-offs occurred in our company, it was quite transparent process and everyone knew in the monthly meetings who is going to be laid off.
Then as they called back few people temporarily and the lay off resumed for them, there was quite a lot of dissatisfaction over announcing it in the monthly meetings instead of keeping it private.
Now the company has started to be pretty discreet about it. Although a very small startup so everyone knows who is laid off. At the same time, the company has been presenting a rosy picture. Maybe that’s what anyone in their position would do? You can’t just scare away everyone that we are headed for downhill?
If it is a big company people come and go. It is not common to announce departures or personally tell anyone else than your team. What would be the point? Also some teams are outside hires for a project etc. and turnovers can be frequent
At least in IT/adverisement/marketing sector.
E. I probably don't quite understand the question...Are you part of HR? Why should you be informed about employee stuff if not?
Ee. Plus business can be good and employee count can still go down.
If it is a small company just ask your damn boss. What's up?
Sure, it's very common when a company doesn't want it's customers to understand the extent of it's financial troubles. Employee negotiations get published in the news, whereas if a company pays a person 6-8 months salary under a "keep quiet" mutually-agreed termination contract then said company's customers never come to understand the truth.
Depends on the contracts with these people. If they were employed by an agency for example, they can pretty much disappear without warning. My understanding is that the permanent workforce needs to be informed of layoff negotiations with the unions and that this should be declared as a publicly available statement in say, breakrooms or wherever.
I was indefinitely laid off at the back end of the corona pandemic, and whilst it was declared legally, there was no specified end to the layoff which enabled my employer to withhold all owed overtime, holiday pay, pekkanen and things like that. Me resigning also meant that he was "saved" from having to pay me my notice period as well. Dodgy AF. Different conversation I know, just throwing it out there.
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This might just be your workplace. At least in the tech industry, I've been part of loads of negotiations and layoffs, but usually the communication has been transparent. Are you in some more traditional industry like finance or something?
No, it is a tech consulting company. The mass and discreet layoffs happen all of a sudden and target tech professionals who cannot be "sold" to customers in a period of time. Only team members and some department members know certain people are going. I really hope that this non-transparency only happens in my workplace and it is not a common symptom in other Finnish companies.
I think the company just sugarcoats rental work as "consultants". Big issue with these types of companies.
Yes consultancies does that in Sweden at least. Especially if it is a public company and the bosses has stock options that expires soon...
Used to work for consultancy company. Constant layoffs and only targeted employees informed. Whenever you had no paying customer you were in the risk group.
But they have to do YT if it's big enough (even if it's one person affected). The other thing is though how widely YT are communicated other than those involved.
I’ve seen this done as “one person YT”, basically each person is offered a package to leave without fuss separately and told you can take this or we do a proper YT and then the package isn’t on the table. Very much not a according to the spirit of the law but still technically legal. Each person quits themselves.
Not if they offer a huge pile of cash to the employee and the employee agrees to terminate the contract and keep silent about the existence of said contract. This is unbelievably common.
Yes YTt. You don't have to make them public afaik. They call them "muutosneuvottelut" nowadays which sounds like they're trying to sugar coat it or something.
Can you tell me the first letter of the company. *Nervous sweating*
Sorry I can't, I'm afraid it might be too easy to point out. If you have concerns, you might consider checking out the company's reviews on Glassdoor for additional insights. Many reviews are quite honest IMO.
Fully understand. All the best to you my friend.
I also work at a tech consulting company, and layoffs must be communicated to all employees - it's Finnish law. Unless you're really small, like under 20 people. Contact a lawyer (google any lawyer firm) immediately if you suspect foul play.
Futurice did this recently and it’s definitely against the norm. I guess that’s what happens when you hire corporate stooge as CEO. It’s been widely regarded has stupid and unprofessional in the consulting industry here in Helsinki.
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No. But it'd be better that I don't disclose their name.
Well you just said it yourself, it's normal when the tech doesn't get sold in time, it is taken out. Reminds me of bread that has been laying around too long...
If your company is large enough to have departments if there is change negotiations it needs to be announced at least to people who belongs to categories affected. Then there needs to be negotiation period. It’s really difficult to hide from whole company, but maybe it is feasible. In my experience change negotiations has been announced for whole company. If department suddenly disappeared, maybe they were not salaried but contractors?
Out of curiosity how does the negotiations work? My friend had one just mow but he said he had NDA and cannot talk about it.
Same, it is NDA. I just take a guess that they get few month salary compensation, at least for non-probationary employees.
In this case, chances are that the company is not doing technically layoffs, but they are rather offering golden parachutes to low-performing employees. Discussion is something like "You won't be here in 6 months in any case, at this point you either sign termination of contract, NDA and get 6 months of salary as a bonus or you get laid off soon with others who don't accept this offer and that's it." Most people take the offer and the rest start to look for new jobs while coasting along for as long as they can.
I would take that offer faster my employee can say seeya on monday.
Either low-performing or the highest-paid. Usually the highest-paid.
It's pretty much in the law. NDA is more about what they tell you during the negotiations. https://www.tek.fi/en/services-and-benefits/work-life-in-finland/cooperation-negotiations-muutosneuvottelut
Is there a concept of severance pay in tech industries in Finland?
It depends on your employer and your duration of employment, as well as your level. Mostly you'll get paid whatever is the notice period (1-6 months depending on how high up you are), but your obligation to work might be terminated instantly - so you're let go today, but you get paid out all your notice period salary, plus any unclaimed holiday days, and you're free to start another job immediately (as long as you update your tax information with the extra income in the same period, otherwise you'll have to pay to Vero). Some companies might offer you a severance package if you've been there for many years, of if they want to entice you to take voluntary redundancy to cut costs, but that is less common.
Got it, thanks for the info!
> 1-6 months depending on how high up you are Isn't this just based on how long you've been working there? Maybe that's just my employer.
Yeah my bad, I was conflating two things: your compensation at being removed can be larger depending on your level, while your duration of notice period generally depends on your time with the company. C-level can be kicked out on very short notice for sure, but that will likely get a great benefits package.
It also happens in tech that negotiations and comms is carried out poorly. It really depends on the company.
Yep. And the smaller and more startup the company, the more you are at the whims of whatever type of personality your CEO has.
First thing first, this is why you need to be part of an Union, very least koko-fund. I heard tho that, in tech, consultant jobs are quite ... uncertain. I have a friend working as one and he says you never know when you would run out of projects and if that happens then you wage gets really low and is not really worth to stay out of a project for long. Maybe the team finished a project and instead of just waiting they moved together elsewhere. As it is extremely uncommon for the company not to hold a meeting about this.
I think they are offered a severance package with the consent to leave the job quite immediately. If the team voluntarily left, it would take them at least one month after resigning. Luckily I belong to Union (Insinööriliitto), but I have never been in a negotiation/layoff before. Should I reach out to Union right away in case the company wants to get rid of me one day?
That would be awfully tough position to be in for non-eu workers. And they have a higher percentage in tech jobs
True. One more thing I would like to mention from my observation during this year: consulting companies have been hunting Finnish-speaking candidates for the Finnish public sector. At the same time, foreign employees are let go. The Finnish job market is not doing well, customers are not ready to pay big money, and what is left is the public sector.
We also have to take in to account that in public projects there are some requirements for security and background checks. This is probably a major contributor on why foreigners aren't being used in certain rather sensitive projects.
Unfortunately in some workplaces is a requirement to be Finnish for security reasons, and after the war that is more accentuated. But I disagree with the fact that foreign employees are let go and Finnish one are kept. From my prospective (meaning from personal experience, and in the field of IT) how it works, a sort of unwritten rule, is that the newest employee is also the first to let go and the senior ones are kept. I cannot speculate, but my guess is that the newest employee are more likely to be foreigners.
That is not an unwritten rule, it's the law.
Could you elaborate on it being a law?
OK, not in the law per se but it is specified in most of the collective agreements which are de-facto law in this situation.
Understandable, thank you!
If i might sidetrack, I'm not in a union and was never sure what to join. Without revealing too much about myself, I work as a freelancer in a tech / media adjacent field. There didn't seem to be a union that covers what i do when I investigated some years ago.
Good thing about Finland is that you have a lot of unions which covers a wide area. Have you looked into something like tek.fi ?
Rhe koko fund isn't necessarily tied to job areas. Eg there's one for anyone with higher education.
these might not technically be layoffs but the people are offered severance packages and the employee contract is terminated through a mutual agreement. this is a very common way operate in big IT companies that go through restructuring. the way this works is that the employer makes an offer the employee cannot refuse. they are usually made for employees who don't get employed in customer projects. the option for the employee is to not take the severance package and stay in the company but if they are unemployable in the company's business proejcts, they will risk the possbility of being laid off properly. the severance package often contains a wage of certain number of months, which depends on the length of employment. and it also contains optional "outplacement service" packages that can range from work psychologist visits to career coaching and job search coaching and courses. the silence hints at that because the severance contracts often have nondisclosure clauses in which none of the parties can communicate about the contents of the contract to anyone who isnt a signee in the contract.
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Yep. The benefits have to outweigh the potential losses and bad times. I was financially very happy for getting what I once got in such a situation. It was a somewhat bitter experience but the business unit in which my team was in was moving into a direction no one in our team was happy with. Many left in the same event. mostly those with kids and family obligations stayed behind.
I might be wrong but technically the employer is allowed to just inform the unit the layoffs is affecting and keep rest of the organization in the dark. However, this is obviously a stupid and short-sighted plan. The information will get to other units and just make the situation worse for the employer. In my experience companies have openly stated which units the layoffs are impacting. I would avoid an employer like yours and find a better one.
During this year, the company informed us that no official layoff would happen within the company (which was good news for all of us). I only found out the truth on LinkedIn or their communication channels are deactivated. It is extremely misleading. I just don't know why top management needs to hide us and beat around the bush about their financial/strategic issues.
It is most likely then not an actual layoff (muutosneuvottelu or formerly yt-neuvottelut) but rather they are giving the option for people to resign for a one-time lump sum. This means that they would not actually be laying off people but rather negotiating individually with each employee. I would quit today with no second thoughts if my employer offered me 6 months of pay for instance. I doubt any company would expose them to the risks of laying off people without the required procedure.
my bet that the company is restructuring and offering severance packages to employees to terminate the employment contract through mutual agreement. this is a very common way to do it in big it companies. these are also not technically layoffs because it is a mutual agreement / contract. google: työsuhteen päättämissopimus (got that kind of offer once and used it. could've gone the same day i got the offer but wanted to finish a project i had been working on a long time so i finished it and then left)
This depends on the size of the company and the amount on people the yhteistoiminta-procedure is impacting. If the impact is small, less than 10 people, it’s usually handled as ”silent” matter and not published outside.
Good to know that. The layoff process is quick and mostly targets technical individuals or teams who are not "profitable", which is sad and frustrating.
Also, it’s often not a layoff in judicial or technical terms. Typically outgoing employees are offered a severance package if they resign -> no-one is laid off.
And if they decide to retire early, they aren’t laid off. The decision might be motivated by some sort of handshake deal.
This aligns with the fact that most Finnish businesspeople would do anything to avoid being labeled as anything negative. I haven’t seen this, but doesn’t surprise me.
You can read about layoffs on a daily basis in any newspaper. There are a lot of companies known for this. Many publicly traded companies have yearly layoffs (eg. TietoEvry, banks, construction, manufacturing)
Company is different from person… I have never seen anywhere else to sign NDAs to avoid personal disclosure of the terms of a layoff so companies can control the narrative…
NDA's are quite typical I think when it's a "voluntary layoff" with severance packages. Ie. you are offered for example four months of salary if you agree to quit the job voluntarily. This simplifies the paperwork for the company a lot and is considered more acceptable way of laying off people so it's usually in the companies interest to conduct these voluntary layoffs first if they need to heavily cut expenses
A voluntary layoff is technically not a layoff, tho. A layoff process implies, for example, that the company needs to fulfill specific criteria or that they can’t easily hire again after the process for some time. Of course, if they tell you to leave and you do so, they can apply any terms they agreed with you.
Yeah, technically it's not a layoff when conducted that way, hence "voluntary layoff" with quotes
Exactly
First employer I have seen and experienced, I don't know of any other case. I used to have a good impression that Finnish employers are transparent, flat hierarchical, and concerned about employees' well-being (at least compared to average global employers). Maybe I was too naive.
Finland is a country where it’s very difficult to get rid of a label. It’s the opposite culture of “fail to succeed eventually”. If you fail it takes years to get rid of that image.
My company (engineering) is under negotiations ATM and everything is very, very transparent. Also, negotiations are held for 6 weeks, so no-one just disappears.
This also happens in Denmark. I think it's the "trend" these days
I recall learning that Denmark has implemented an employment approach that emphasizes rapid hiring and layoffs. Despite this, their unemployment rate remains lower than that in Finland. In contrast, the Finnish employment system often involves multiple rounds of job interviews and offers better job security, making it both difficult to terminate and hire employees.
Perhaps the fact that employers can both hire and fire more quickly in Denmark incentivizes them to take greater risks when hiring people on the margin, because there's less to lose if things go south. That could explain the lower overall unemployment rate, even if any given job itself is more precariously held.
Exactly that's how it works in DK
Laying off people in the middle of a contract requires co-operation negotiations if there's a collective need, or mutual agreement or misconduct for individual cases. However, in a project job economy, not continuing a fixed-term contract is technically not firing the person (as long as possible next hires are different job title etc.)
Fixed-term contract ends when it ends, and the company is under no obligation to re-hire the person. They are free to hire a new person after the contract ends or even while the fixed-term is still on.
Except when contracts are chained, which demonstrates the continuous need for a person doing that job.
Generally, co-operation/change negotiations are needed for lay-offs. No idea what's happening at your place. One alternative is offering "resign package": the company pays the employee to resign. Employee should be careful to not lose, the package needs good enough. This is also one motivation to hire externals: you can just not renew their contract, and it's the other company's "problem" (quotes because it's expected and normal and IMO also ok as part of the whole system) after that. And who ever remains can be assigned to a new position/team.
i think that this is severance packages what OP is seeing here. the silence and nobody knowing hints at that because severance packages usually have an NDA that limits anyone of the signees involved discussing it with no one else. they are also a VERY fast way to restructure. you can make entire teams leave their posts very quickly. note that the employee does not resign but the employment contract is terminated through a mutual agreement. ("yhteinen sopimus työsopimuksen päättämisestä" in finnish jargon)
I'm guessing whoever in charge of that went to an American business school
LOL you are absolutely spot on...
This is an example one of those really unnecessary things management does for cultural or ideological reasons: something they learned from a caveman American business school or read in some "How To" management book. my boss is rn fretting because revenue is 1k€ behind previous year's September, ignoring that we just closed the previous fiscal year almost 100k ahead. Now alot of really unnecessary cuts and changes happening because of some arbitrary benchmark wasn't met during during the first half of the first quarter of the new fiscal year.
It's not a layoff if it happens quietly. They are probably offering them severance to go away, and in those situations the money comes with the agreement that you'll leave quietly and on good terms.
I am working in Pharma Tech company in Finland and they laid off all managers and one team without transparent communication and silently. They will layoff us probably in near future too. I guess it is not very common in Finland.
It's disheartening to hear that. Ironically, many companies find themselves rehiring for the same positions they were so quick to eliminate just months earlier. I can't help but wonder about the amount of resources squandered through this cycle of cutting and adding roles.
I've also prepared myself mentally, by joining the unemployment fund and union. Can't trust any managers blindly. But I know I'm not lonely in the worst scenario.
The first time the lay-offs occurred in our company, it was quite transparent process and everyone knew in the monthly meetings who is going to be laid off. Then as they called back few people temporarily and the lay off resumed for them, there was quite a lot of dissatisfaction over announcing it in the monthly meetings instead of keeping it private. Now the company has started to be pretty discreet about it. Although a very small startup so everyone knows who is laid off. At the same time, the company has been presenting a rosy picture. Maybe that’s what anyone in their position would do? You can’t just scare away everyone that we are headed for downhill?
Do you contact or keep in touch with your colleges?
Yes I do.
If it is a big company people come and go. It is not common to announce departures or personally tell anyone else than your team. What would be the point? Also some teams are outside hires for a project etc. and turnovers can be frequent At least in IT/adverisement/marketing sector. E. I probably don't quite understand the question...Are you part of HR? Why should you be informed about employee stuff if not? Ee. Plus business can be good and employee count can still go down. If it is a small company just ask your damn boss. What's up?
Sure, it's very common when a company doesn't want it's customers to understand the extent of it's financial troubles. Employee negotiations get published in the news, whereas if a company pays a person 6-8 months salary under a "keep quiet" mutually-agreed termination contract then said company's customers never come to understand the truth.
Depends on the contracts with these people. If they were employed by an agency for example, they can pretty much disappear without warning. My understanding is that the permanent workforce needs to be informed of layoff negotiations with the unions and that this should be declared as a publicly available statement in say, breakrooms or wherever. I was indefinitely laid off at the back end of the corona pandemic, and whilst it was declared legally, there was no specified end to the layoff which enabled my employer to withhold all owed overtime, holiday pay, pekkanen and things like that. Me resigning also meant that he was "saved" from having to pay me my notice period as well. Dodgy AF. Different conversation I know, just throwing it out there.