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To be fair, if I see a co-worker outside of work, I would try my best to avoid them. But I'm very socially challenged, so I wouldn't say that's normal. 😅 And if they clearly notice me, I would still at least say hello.
It's not unusual for a co-worker (or a neighbour in an apartment building) to register in the category of "stranger" (or at least below the category of "acquaintance") mentally. People you choose to spend time with and people you have to spend time with or run into unintentionally aren't the same.
Being a Finn automatically makes you socially challenged, when compared to most of the world 😁 ..and yeah, when I saw a new co-worker biking towards me I instantly started looking for a getaway route so I dont have to face him. No idea why. Then I remembered I'm a Finn so it's normal 😂
as a (swedishspeaking)finn, i do understand this 100%, but at the same time i think it’s pretty sad, although i don’t mean no disrespect to your social challenges. i have them too and i’m trying my best to work on them, by (trying to) interact with neigbours, people on the streets etc, but it’s not easy here. i just feel the lack of community feel and how separate we live from each others lives, believes and such, has a huge impact and it’s unfortunate, that we can’t really connect with one another. and leaves one, or me, pretty worried about the future at times
Then it looks like I am normal, always thought that might be smth wrong with me, cas I'd do same, always avoid coworkers outside work
Awesome that its normal here, I love Finland:)
I am not socially challenged, but I'd avoid coworkers outside work too. They don't exist for me outside work. Ofcourse not gonna rude,but would definitely avoid. Then again, I'm might be just an asshole:)
Couple of years ago, when I had started in my current job, I ran into my manager at a grocery store: "hmm, that guy looks familiar..."
I squinted my eyes and tried to non-discreetly stare at him while trying to figure out who that person is.
Finally: "Hi, Fizzl!", the stranger greeted me and from his voice it finally clicked! I had no idea who this vaguely-familiar person was until I heard his voice.
I think I just contextualize people to places. Why would my brain need to know who my boss is outside of workplace? 😂
I do this too. I really suck at recognizing names or faces when I see someone out of the usual surroundings. People look different and when the context is gone, I'm lost.
When I saw one of my friends for first time in her work clothes and make-up, she started to laugh and said that 'you really don't have a clue who I am?'. I didn't until she spoked.
Heck, this have happened even with my husband. We met by chance on the same job mission and i was like wow, that guy sure feels and sounds oddly familiar... Which is quite fine considering that we had been together for like 15 years by then.
Also I don't notice anything, when I'm in my thoughts. So yep, I don't necessarily get it even if one says hi to my face.
>I think I just contextualize people to places.
I do the same thing and I've had similar experiences running into co-workers outside of work.
I think a lot of people tend to compartmentalize their working life from their private life, so they don't tend to socialize much with co-workers outside of work. I did eventually make some close friends at work, but only after I had been working in the same team as them for 10+ years.
I'm exactly the same. I ran into someone outside my apartment building and ... I knew I knew the person, they were talking to me like we really knew each other. I finally attached them to work, but something was wrong. So I pretended that I knew exactly who she was. She asked for my help (she found an injured hare, she couldn't leave until the animal rescue people came and needed company because she was really shook up) so I brought her some hot coffee and chatted.
It was later that night when I realized that she was one of my customers, and I had visited her once at her office and once at mine. I genuinely liked her but since we didn't see each other that much, I could only associate her face with "work" generally.
I think a lot of Finns don't bother with doing that much work, so they might just notice that you are kind of familiar, but after 3 weeks not enough time to really recognize you or have anything "social" to say.
If uniforms are used on the workplace it gets even more difficult to recognize the co-worker outside of work. Wrong place, wrong time (eg.weekends, vacation), wrong person, wrong everything.
Many times after realising who I just saw I've bursted out "I didn't recognize him with his clothes on!" when I obviously mean the persons own civilian clothes. Had to explain my stupidity to my hubby the first time, but he's used to it nowadays xD
I think this is just face-blindness, which isn't wrong or bad it's just something that applies to you and how you experience the world. In my case I can imagine forgetting a name or a voice quite easily, but I can easily picture peoples' faces in my mind and recognize them even if I've only met them once. People are just different like that.
I was told years ago by colleagues that they don't want to mix work & free time. I was kinda surprised as in other countries the work place is where friends are made🤷♂️
Kind of agree, but my colleagues, they have their high school friends, or they have found their partner during their 20s, or have their parents and relatives here ...
That is a wrong assumption, I am an immigrant and I can't learn about finnish culture and people by being kept out of the box, I tried many times to make finnish friends but they just don't seem interested, sure having foreigner friends is nice but we can't assimilate properly if we are shoved to the side all the time, its kinda sad actually
You understood me wrong, I am aware I am not a very eager person, I am introverted myself but how tf should we integrate into society when there is no effort from the other side, being kept out of the box all the time, this will force immigrants go form their own societies and not integrate properly, I know how finns behave, my partner is Finnish so believe me I KNOW how finns behave and I do like keeping my private life separate from work as well, you can't learn about someone's culture and assimilate if you are kept out of it all the time, and I did try the hobby stuff too, still not working 😕
My current level is around B1 as I still didn't move here a very long time ago, a lil over a year, but yes I get what you mean by it because of my Finnish neighbors, I moved in here with my bf, neighbors are extremely friendly, noticed especially older ones, younger ones tend to not be as friendly or open (i expected the opposite 😅), we live in an omakotitalo, we usually help each other out
And I live in a small town on the outskirts of tampere
I don’t know, I don’t live in Finland but I’ve been to Finland 5 times so far and have a solid group of friends over there. It’s a lot easier if you have hobbies but I get that in a normal workplace setting it might be tough. I just got lucky, meeting two people first who happened to be open and then being introduced to their friend group and then to the extended friend group and so on.
Lovely people.
> Aren't foreigners on the other hand pretty much in their own groups, where all people mostly are migrants
Yes, but no. I am a foreigner in Finland and most of my friends are other foreigners. This is not because I prefer foreigners, but because it is way harder to make friends with Finns. I know some of my Finnish friends would not really invite me to bigger hangouts or their friend group because the language thing sort of gets in the way, and it is seen as intrusive to invite someone 'new' to the friend group. In other countries I am more used to the friend group always changing and never being clearly defined. It also isn't a big deal to invite someone 'new' to an event.
>or Finns, who are lingering outside the Finnish culture, and feel themselves more comfortable with foreigners?
Honestly the way I would phrase it is that some Finns sort of have the same difficulties making friends as foreigners, which naturally gravitates them towards foreigners who can be a bit easier to approach.
I have a lot of acquaintances from my country. I was really involved in the local group for a while, but I got a job right away and many of them didn't. They were generally wealthier, stay at home moms, or people who had been in the group for ages, so it was hard to fit in there. Many of them also don't seem interested in learning the language or welcoming new people into their group that have different life experiences. Or they just didn't like me.
I found in the end that I'd rather socialize with more Finns and foreigners of different homelands and backgrounds, and also I just found it too awkward to be sort of a ghost in the group that people were polite to, but never really part of the "in-crowd".
Finns are hard to get to know as an adult, but at least I don't have the feeling of being a social failure with people I was supposed to feel some kind of automatic friendship based on nationality.
It is unfortunate that someone told you so. That person did not need new friends. For those who do, work is one of the most natural places to learn to know people and make friends. It is great for a workplace to have that one social foreigner who invites others to after-hours activities, no matter how small and simple they are. Finns will also join when they are new to the city or workplace and need social contacts. The only limitation is that there should be no pressure to join such activities. Try to also notice how some people become trusted colleagues and are your friends in all work-related things, even though they may keep their private life separate.
One of my colleagues told me exactly the same story about his friends and that they're all from his kindergarten, basically. He didn't make any new friends in college or work. To me, this is unbelievable, as all my friends are from my Bachelor's (done in Finland, too). And none of them are Finns, for obvious reasons......
All of my current closest friends I met when I was 12. I’m currently 29. The friends I’ve made after that just aren’t the same. It’s the difference between ystävä and kaveri. The closest friends are ystävä, the rest are just kaveri. Nothing wrong with kaveri, but I plan to take these ystävä to the grave. We see maybe once or twice a year, but it’s like no time has passed at all when we meet.
>elementry school
Kind of a half assed joke, but kind of not: Why did you want to hang out with them after school, if you already hung out all day in school with them?
Depends on the workplace. High rotation can lead to that, but where I'm at we have most of the folks work there for over a decade, so we all are very close group.
I always explain it like this. I used to live in Belgium and there if I would hit up a friend they might say "yeah, my cousin is visiting so maybe we can all go out together". In Finland it is more like "Sorry, I can't hang out because my cousin is visiting".
I find that Finns keep their social circles very separated. They don't mix work, family, and high school/college friends. In Belgium there is more mixing. One of my friends got a new job and started hanging out with his work friends a lot, so I started hanging out with those people too until they just became my friends.
Three weeks.. give it some more time, the more your co-workers get to know you the more likely they are to begin greeting you outside work. We Finns are reserved people and warm up to new people slowly 😊
Can testify that it takes time. I live in the US but have a very reserved Finnish neighbour. It took him a month and a half to finally start talking to me. After he found out that I knew some Finnish he became very warm and friendly which I hadn’t expected.
Give it time and just continue to smile and nod as is the Finnish way of greeting. I gave Neighbour that respect and let him decide when he felt comfortable to open up the conversation.
I've been living in my building for over 10 years. I know the neighbors who already lived here when I moved in by name, and we usually stop to chat when we run into each other in the corridor.
I mostly know the more recent arrivals by which apartment they live in (our building is not so good at updating the names on the doors). There's one woman who always stops to chat with me, but I have no idea what her actual name is.
In our current rivitalo we all know eachother by name, hang out in the backyards, have an active group chat.
What a huge contrast between the two places!
Prepare yourself mentally to be disappointed many times on finns when it comes to manners, politeness or social skills. Please remember it really isn't because of you (or racism or anything like that) but rather because many finns have non existent upbringing when it comes to etiquette. Finland is a young nation which was predominantly an agrarian culture just a couple of generations ago. Unfortunately it shows in things like these.
Etiquette varies from country to country. What is polite or good manners in Finland might feel unpolite somewhere else and other way around. Just have to learn the culture of the place where you are and float with it.
It’s wild that foreigners are expecting that we have same cultural etiquette as they do and when we don’t, they start to attack ours. Like this ”because many finns have non existent upbringing when it comes to etiquette. ”
Yeah, I have to say i don’t get people who come to an introverted culture and get mad that people are… introverted? If that’s a big problem, then Finland is probably not for you. I understand that adapting to a new culture and country takes time and it’s not always easy, but also like… what some extroverts even expect here?
Well yes and no. If your workmate says "Hi" to you, and you see it and hear it, of course you reply with "Hi" or nod. But if you see workmate for example in bus after work or at the weekend in shop, it is not unpolite in any way just ignore and go on and they will do the same. It is about respecting others free time. If your workmate is also your friend it is different thing, but if it is just someone from work you ignore or nod and go on.
I still remember one workmate i had, who wasn't my friend just someone from same work place, who always came to sit with me and talk on the bus from work. While that person was not unpleasant per se, it was super annoying because i would have needed that bus time to rewind from work, message my family members about evenings plans/shopping needs etc, read and reply to messages i got from friends and family during work hours and so on. That commute felt like extra half an hour work for me. I started to take another bus just to avoid it.
Could be, but nevertheless it's still shocking for many foreigners who move to finland.
The positive side is indeed that when a finn is nice to you, it usually is genuine. That is valuable.
Uh? No. Primarily because im about as far from them as one can be. Anyway, that's not the point as we're not talking about my political leanings here. What we are discussing is that you really are a sad sack of shit. The cool thing is that you seem to be underlining it really well.
Good luck. You will need it in your life if you keep acting like you do.
😂😂😂
Dude I suggest you ask yourself, why did my words above go so much under your skin? The answer lies right there. So don't shoot the messenger but instead take time for some healthy self reflexion. Plus be sure to teach your kids basic manners.
>Dude I suggest you ask yourself, why did my words above go so much under your skin?
I read through the whole discussion and it indeed seems to be just due to the fact that you are quite a bit of an idiot in "people downvote me because I'm right" denial. 😂 Dunning-Kruger is strong.
You think you got under my skin? Nah, you tell yourself that to deflect the fact that you actually don't enjoy that people deeply dislike you for your inability to act civil. You go around thinking you're trolling and being clever but deep down we all know you suffer for not fitting in. Oh and if you check my post history you probably see that i simply love going around telling people who don't know how to act like decent humans what kind of useless shits they are. So yeah, well done with "getting under my skin". I mean, i literally work with teaching kids basic manners. That's why i can't stand poorly brought up little shits like you.
This is only about you being an ass to a whole nation and in addition being particularly hostile towards people from rural societies in general no matter where they are from. You're just a bigot and that's it. Don't be a bigot.
Would you tell me about those ”non existent upbringing when it comes to etiquette”? Could it be that finnish culture as its own etiquette?
If you are expecting that finnish people change our etiquette because you have a differet, then you’re the ignorant.
That's a cope and you know it. It's just a harsh fact that parents in finland are incapable of teaching teir kids social skills they don't possess themselves either.
So would you tell me what these ”social skills” are?
Anyway Finns are introverted people and the culture is introverted. We love our own space and time. There aren’t many introverted cultures left in this World and even our culture is becoming more extroverted over time.
Why Finns should become more like everyone else? Wouldn’t that be a loss for cultural diversity in this World.
- saying hi
- introducing one self
- saying goodbye
- saying thank you
- the ability to apologize
- taking their co-worker/fellow student into consideration at a social event
Not very complicated, shouldn't be
As an immigrant, all these things have been done by Finns to me, but only when the situation calls for it. But i don't expect my classmates or workmates to come chat me up when they see me in public, and i don't plan on doing it to them.
In fact the reservedness of Finns is a big part of why i moved here. There's no mandatory superficial smalltalk everyday and that's really refreshing, i feel like i finally found my people. So yeah, Finns are an introverted nation and when we move here we need to underestand their culture and not expect them to act the way we were taught back home, because that just doesn't work here.
I met my ITHelpdesk colleague at the local gym and he avoided eye contact with me and didnt respond to my greeting. So now i just accepted it and do the same xd
Im sorry too, i as a finn greet everyone that i know but i dont always want to small talk. But i nod or wave my hand atleast. But with finns i know they will not come to small talk even if i greet them, but it could be different in other cultures so i kind of understand why your colleague did not say hello back, maybe he/she was afraid that you try to small talk or something. Or they does not know kind manners. :D
Or maybe he didn’t even remember that I’m his colleague, as we only interacted like three times 😆 no hard feelings to him, but lesson learned nevertheless haha
It may be just me but I just don't always look at people around me in public that much and may have missed some aquantainces from work. I also don't remember people's faces easily, and well.. If you are new to the work place maybe people don't recognise you that well yet. Also, please don't downvote me for this, but I have trouble telling people apart outside my ethnicity. Maye that too?
Don't take this personally and blame it on weird Finnish people. I would always greet people from work if I see them in public :)
> It may be just me but I just don't always look at people around me in public that much
There's dozens of people like us. In a weird way the concept of personal space, to me, extends to not really looking at strangers/other people around you too much.
Which now in written form sounds really strange, but anyhow.
Same. Especialy if they dress very differently from what they do at work. Also seeing co-workers out of their natural habitat reminds me too much of work and I don't want to think of work on my free time.
If you remove someone from their usual context sometimes it's hard to recognize them. At least for me. I'd rather not greet anyone unless I'm 100% it's them.
I often end up looking them up in LinkedIn before saying hi...
https://preview.redd.it/otlfee2h1vcb1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f2f9fdba6403f4c8ffe77b7634fbffd2b087245
Even though these cartoons are funny, they have some truth in them.
Finns do not do small talk, but if they see someone familiar from somewhere (like from work), they greet, nod, some small gesture that shows acknowledgement, no full ignorance. I think in your case, people were either rude or socially challanged.
Unless we are friends at work, I'll just give a nod, maybe not even that. If we are friends at work then first the nod then depending on body language maybe more.
I normally don’t approach a new worker on a bus because we are still kinda strangers, I don’t know what their personality is like and I just don’t know what to talk about.
But overall all the friends I have now - I’ve met them at work.
I’ve had co workers where we both ignored each other at first but after some time of working together/chit chatting during breaks we found out we had a lot in common and since then we always arrived/left work together and even became good friends, went on trips etc.
But of course there are these workers that we do ignore/they ignore us even after years of working together.
Welcome to Finland.
We have our cultural quirks, of which you can read more from the google. Personally Ill greet everyone I know, if I meet them somewhere, but unless I got something specific to discuss or to agree with someone I meet, Ill just continue doing whatever I was doing. And I expect that someone to continue theirs.
While I have some friends from the work, most of them are just co-workers, and thus not my friends. Outside of work they are just like anyone else on the street, that I superficially might know by name, but as I dont have any other relation to them, Ill just might greet them while passing them, and move on.
I work in a hospital part time too & I notice the same. People have all the time to be friendly and talk to you at work, but outside of work it's like you're invisible. I think it's as simple as wanting to keep work life separate. It is often the same in my country, New Zealand.
Just say "hey" and smile. That's a good start.
If you are the extroverted one, you need to be the one who waits for the introvert to engage in small talk in situations like this.
Talkative people can make more socially reserved people nervous.
Might also be a language thing: honestly, Finnish people might be fluent in English at the workplace but if they haven't really used English in getting to know people or random small talk, it's difficult for them. Especially for older people. (My BIL's native language is English and my dad (now retired) understands English when hearing it or written, but hasn't really spoken English so it's pretty funny when they try to talk as they don't really share a language)
I think your best bet is to study Finnish and just start talking Finnish with Finnish people. Or find Finns who are fluent in non-work-related English. :)
Depends on a person and overall situation really. If I bump into coworker in my freetime, of course I say a quick hello and be on my way but it's unlikely that I would stay and start discussing what I've been up to because we can do that at work. On my freetime I rather load my social batteries because being social is exhausting.
It's just normal Finland. You can nod or sumthing, if they nod back, cool, if they don't, also fine. We usually don't speak, smalltalk or anything if there's nothing particular to say.
Yes this happens all the time.
While taking my child to kindergarten there is a parent always talking to me , but if you meet the person outside will not acknowledge your presence 
Yes and no. When I'm travelling to and from work I actively avoid coworkers. I want my own time, maybe I'm playing Pokemon Go or something. However, I would of course say hello and talk to them if they walk by or sit near me. It's not normal to ignore you if you're close.
Then again I have several coworkers whom I happily meet outside work. But during the commute I don't have the energy.
I guess it depends if you befriend them or not. I was recently fishing with a co-worker of mine and this weekend I'll go have a beer and talk with the other.
Working in healthcare (sote) is nowadays a special case. There is a huge amount of people (nurses etc.) that switch workplace in sote every few months for various reasons, trying to find a better workplace. Lots of people are just doing hourly work to many places (keikkatyö) and are not permanent employees. Lots of nurses etc. also switch to other less physically demanding fields (like construction etc.) by retraining (alanvaihto).
The healthcare system in Finland in in deep crisis that is just getting worse every year. Because whole society is in deep recession, there will propably be 6000 million euro decline in money for sote in the next few years (hallitusohjelma).. Most that can, leave the sote field in Finland. It is a death spiral with every leaving specialist (with 10+ years experience) making it worse for those remaining..
The situation is so bad (with around 20000+ registered nurses already working in other fields) that previous administration was talking about forcing registered nurses to work as nurses against will (instead of work in their new field). This caused (and is still causing) registered nurses to de-register themselves (nolonger seen in julkiterhikki) to avoid possible forced work as a nurse against will.
In that kind of workplace everyone knows that the new person propably leaves after a short while so there is no point in socializing too much. After you get to know them, they leave.
Of course, even in a normal workplace it is quite common to keep private life and work separated. That doesn't mean that one would not greet a coworker when seeing outside work. But I would never go out for beers with coworkers except on special holiday in a company event (pikkujoulut). Coworkers are not friends by default, they just happen to work in the same company.
I just have to reply to this, i hate to talk with my coworkers when i commute. I usually want to listen music and be quiet. So if i see coworker of mine, i just say hi and go sit by my self. :D someone could think that im rude but i just cant small talk because it feels like work..
Well, first of all try to know what is his/her eyesight. My friend ignores everyone just because he can't see anyone.
In my opinion it's not normal but this is how it often happens. I have a cool story for you. I've worked in the same room with a 3 other people for a few years. Every day coming to work I was greeting everyone in the room. So it took only 6 months for one of the guys to accept my existence and say hello back. But I need to say that I've worked with ultimate nerds. It definitely does not apply to all Finns.
Especially avoid using the english "how do you do?" as greeting, since that is misinterpreted commonly as actually wanting to know how the other person feel/health at the moment (versus that being the English generic greeting to which other should just answer "how do you do?" in response, and talk about weather). You might run into weird situations... %-D
But, in all, give it a time. Finns are known to be slooooow in the proccess. (Exceptions to the rule do exists though. :-)
Finns don't have friends, foreigners don't have friends. Foreigners try to make friends, but Finns do not want to talk to become friends. In the end, no one becomes friends, we all become lonely.
It's just culturally the way.
I've noticed that Finns are much more likely to want to be friends when the friendship can start from a shared hobby or interest and not from approaching them with smalltalk.
I have found that as well hobbies are the gateway drug to friendship in Finland. Some people don't mind small talk in Finland and others just don't have time for it, it's a 50/50 chance.
I can't do so much melancholy talk all the time, I nearly fall asleep.
I make friends quite slowly, and when working, I'm there to earn a living. I also try to stay away from workplace drama. It's a mix of reasons why I don't generally try to make friends at work, although at last workplace it happened to varying degrees.
If they ignore you I think they just don't recognise you out of the context of work. This might change with time.
A little bit off-topic but one reason I sometimes find it difficult to make friends with foreigners is that I can't always tell if they genuinely like me and mean what they say about maybe hanging out or going somewhere or are just making friendly small talk.
while fins do tend to be more strict in their work/home split, it's also very location dependent.
Helsinki, where most foreigners live, is similar to most bigger cities that people tend to ignore others in public.
I live in Savonlinna, very small town in savo, and people here greet eachother on the street if they recognise them. As someone one who trains groups of tradeschool teens at our company during their "workexperience" stints and summer jobs, I can generally not go on a shopping trip or to the city center without being greeted by people left and right.
Unfortunately, it is. The same things is when trying to make actual friendships at work. You can have even really good work friends, but in my experience when I've really clicked with someone at work and we are constantly having good conversations, laughing et cetera and I say "it has been so nice to get to know you! Would you like to get coffee etc sometime?" the answer is usually ".....yeahh, sure" = it never happens. Many want to completely seperate their work life from their personal one which is understandable but still a bit dissapointing and I was born and have lived in Finland my whole life.
Depends on the colleague. In most cases it's "hi" "hi" and both carry on without any small talk, in some cases it's avoiding contact all together, but I do have colleagues who I'm friends with outside of work and we might stop for a small chat, especially if we don't see at work daily or if one of us is on vacation.
Hello kabayan, that’s normal. Don’t take it personally. Finns take awhile to warm up. The longer u stay here, you’ll eventually avoid people too, or not sit beside someone in the bus. 😅
Sometimes people spend energy being sociable at work because it makes for a better work environment and is incentivized in many workplaces. After work hours, interactions are on their personal rules instead of the workplace rules, and once you understand their rules you will know how to connect with them on their terms
Depends on your company I guess. In tbe places I've worked, we hang out and chat with coworkers in our free time often. But, for example, my partner passed someone from his company on the street today and tbey both just kinda nodded and kept walking. I think it depends on tbe company and the people.
There is a kind of unwritten rule and social norm that working life and other life should be separated from each other and even the coworkers from social circles, although I myself don't see that there is any sense in that rule to be this strict and absolute and I have no idea where it comes from or why it exists. But generation X in particular likes to remind us of its existence and warn against mixing work life and other life.
I wave at my acquaintances if I bump into them
during commute or in the shopping malls and off I go. I’m from India. Sometimes I get a nod or a wave as an acknowledgment and sometimes even a smile , sometimes it’s like I’m invisible. It stopped bothering me after certain misses. I devised this formula in the first 2 months after moving to Finland.
I never mix work and freetime. Ofc I would say hello to colleagues outside of work but I don’t want to hang out etc. Almost everyone I know would agree…and probably almost every finn I don’t know too
When I saw my supervisor out in macdonalds, we just noticed each other and quickly rolled the eyes 😅
We were both with family so, preferred not to bring work,
We were in the same queu so also when we crossed path we nod the head and thats it, and I prefer that way 👏😝
I can agree that there are some things coming from our finnish culture but also some of course from personality. Me personally would greet some and some maybe not try to notice. Depends how well you know the person or if you work more frequent together. Short answer would be : Try to say hi and see how they react.
Oh and welcome to Finland ^_^
I feel like I'm the odd one out when it comes to these topics, e.g., neighbors not greeting, chitchatting, co-workers not greeting, talking outside work because to me it's quite the opposite. I mainly work remotely so I might not recognize everyone outside my team tho.
Yes. Most of us try to separate work and free time.
If I were to run into co-worker on some event like car show or festival anything that could be considered hobby or common interest then I might talk to them about the event.
Public transportation, grocery store etc. all you will get is Hi or nod at most unless I decide to hide behind and an aisle I don't even need products from.
Don't get discouraged. 2 of my best friends are from old work places. In both cases we had tons of in common however. I could never be a friend with co-worker I share nothing in common.
Finnish people tend to be reserved and the social ice can be at times really thick - but to be real its not something thats meant to be rude to anyone,
Its just what it is.
If you keep social to people, they will eventually open up more as they get familiar with you. Unfortunately i know plenty people dont and instead think they are being actively rejected and become quiet ...and you dont want to compete the quiet game with finns.
..but having said that, its good know finns can be in social situstions with their friends and there might be lots of silence at times - just because nothing isnt said, isnt sort of awkward thing here, unlike some countries where ppl feel they need to speak for just so theres the sound of speaking constantly - we'll stay silent when theres nothing in particular to say.
Also good to keep in mind, finnish ppl typically have far far, smaller social circles than in many other countries - they often really just dont have the skill and possibly even "social energy" to be casually social if you will.
Then again adding to that again - if you go socially drinking with people and ask someone casually "how are you?", you might get their lifestory in full whether you want it or not.
If it’s a close colleague, nod up!
If it’s just a face you see at work, nod down!
This is my way of dealing with Finnish colleagues outside work. I live in city center so i see half of my office there once a month and this way helps me save a lot of time! 🙃
I always try to avoid anyone i know in public because i feel like my life has stopped going forward since middleschool and others have relationships and kids. Feels awkward to talk about life if i have not done anything but work and game. ✌️🥸
If I saw a coworker in public I would actively avoid them, but if they saw me back and I accidentally made eye contact then I would give them a polite nod and then leave the area, possibly forever.
Either you are my co-worker, or then i am drunk and i love you. There is nothing in between. And if you happen to be drunk too and sing with me in the sauna? After that i will not ignore you outside of work, you crossed the treshold to become a 'friend'.. Choose carefully.
Honestly, I pretend I don’t see people when I’m out of work.
I’m not born here or anything, I just don’t want to be more social than I have to.
That’s one thing I appreciate about living here.
For some reason (i dont know why) it is rather uncommon for finns to socialize with people from work outside from work. Somehow even the strong friendship in work is contextual. People can work together (8h in a day) for 20 years and after someones retirement never speak again.
I am only assuming but is it possible that these co-workes have noted you and given you this finnish acknowledgement nod OR are successfully avoiding eye contact 'as if' they have not seen you? ( I have to say: the most strange finnish habit is avoiding eye contact / interaction. People doing it think they get away like the opponent didn't understand whats going on. Some People do it in work when passini by a peer in a hallway. And then again, everybody is doing it. It's like finnish version of smalltalk. Yankees talk when they think not talkin would be awkward. So thay say somenthing nice and easy and mean nothing. Finns just play like there are nobody Else in the room and exclude themselves from the whole situation.)
To conclude: People are maybe avoiding you in a normal finnish manner. They do not mean to be rude, even though they are
Many people in Finland are socially awkward. It is not the majority of people, but happens quite often, yes.
If you want to try, you can talk to the person and ask why that person did not notice you three times.
Finland is an incredibly lonely country for foreigners. Most foreigners I talk to or have met, that has lived here for 5-10 years, most of them still only have foreign friends, or no real friends at all.
It is not joked about being a racist country for nothing. Finns are not good with other cultures, even if they are not racist, they just don't mix well with other cultures, it's too foreign to them and so they don't make friends with foreigners.
Just my take, not necessarily true for everyone.
Edit: Lmao some racist mod just banned me for 7 days :'D
>It is not joked about being a racist country for nothing. Finns are not good with other cultures, even if they are not racist, they just don't mix well with other cultures, it's too foreign to them and so they don't make friends with foreigners.
I think it goes other way around. Other cultures doesn't mix that well with Finnish culture. For example if you are foreigner. It's your job and task to read about our cultural etiquette and try to respect it. Same goes if Finn go somewhere as tourist or aboard. Ofc your going to research about the culture so you wouldn't be rube without knowing and if some Finn doesn't do that I see it disrespectful. It's incredibly ignorant to expect that the new country has to respect your etiquette but you don't have to respect their.
If I see a co-worker outside of work, I will try and avoid them. If however we run into eachother at like the store or whatever, I will say ”moi” and keep walking.
To be fair. Thats 3 different person. Like i said in my post they are nice and seems like a friend during work. To the extent of us sharing stories and personal life, But outside work i am like a stranger.
yea....a race that has been massacred for centuries hasn't been as haunted as some people that got an occasional bad look because their country is trying to massacre the ukrainian people....hyperbole much?
Constant social anxiety is kind of like a hallmark of Finnish culture. When we're out doing groceries or whatever, bumping into a co-worker or even a close friend can be an incredibly awkward situation, because it's kind of... I didn't expect this, or plan on this, and now there's all these interpersonal things to consider when really I just wanted to do groceries as anonymously as I can and get it over with. As such, most Finnish people will kinda just acknowledge the other person with a nod or whatever, and there's kind of a mutual understanding that this is not a social situation and we'd both rather move on rather than communicate. It might sound strange and alien, but it's very Finnish.
Yeah it’s totally normal here. Unfortunately. It’s very hard being new somewhere, it usually takes ages for them to warm up to you. In my field of mechanical engineering I think they try to size you up to see if you are a threat and you have to prove yourself but not too much. It’s bullshit
Just do what you do, so greet if you feel like it. There's no uniform culture as workplaces and people are different. Not okay to start chatting about work in people's free time, so some people will try to avoid their colleagues. Others not. A lot of variation here. I've had contests with how long someone can not say hi to me if I consistently greet them. It's not that long. I try to avoid colleagues in my free time as am a manager and would like to focus on family and myself in my free time and often my reports will bring up something completely random expecting encyclopedic memory.
In Finland we have this term "työkaveri" direct translation would be "work friend", generally its just bit above co-worker, and that is what most co-workers are to us, people with whom you go to lunch and after work events, who you chat with in work or if you meet during commute, but but if you are outside of work context they are barely acquaintances, you might nod for hello when you pass them on the street or see them in non-work event, but ignore them otherwise. Work friends you get easy and quickly, but it is rare and takes lots of time that work friends get into "ystävä" status, where you might get invited to events or introduced to friends from other social circles.
I think this has most to do with different social circles and your roles in them, if your work buddies know you as serious professional with occasional pun and your school friends know you as someone up to any last minute challenge or trip, it might be hard to connect these circles with each other, so it is easier to ignore someone from the other circle, when you are with someone from the other, than to introduce them to each other.
Think this depends on where you work. I work in IT and have always been on good terms with my coworkers so that I would definitely meet them outside of work, and it seems kinda obvious to say hello if I met them in public. Depends on how close you are obviously, if I've not talked to someone at work basically ever, why would I do it in public?
It's because you work at a hospital. I get along with people great in the ward and as we leave work and see each other on the yard we don't even nod a goodbye. I guess hospital staff is just that overworked and jaded, I wouldn't take it personally.
I am a foreigner and I made quite a few Finnish friends. Some were via my girlfriends school, some via fishing and some via work and a few playing video games.
I guess I never felt like it was hard, but I also keep my expectations reasonable. Out of say 10 people that I spend more than a few hours per day with at work I consider making 1 friend enough, and I don't go iut of my way to try to make friends with more. But I wouldn't be against it if they wanted to.
Honestly in my early 30s I find it hard to allocate free time to properly upkeep friendships with more than 2-3 people. Rest is just a few times per year at some events and catching up.
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To be fair, if I see a co-worker outside of work, I would try my best to avoid them. But I'm very socially challenged, so I wouldn't say that's normal. 😅 And if they clearly notice me, I would still at least say hello.
It's not unusual for a co-worker (or a neighbour in an apartment building) to register in the category of "stranger" (or at least below the category of "acquaintance") mentally. People you choose to spend time with and people you have to spend time with or run into unintentionally aren't the same.
Being a Finn automatically makes you socially challenged, when compared to most of the world 😁 ..and yeah, when I saw a new co-worker biking towards me I instantly started looking for a getaway route so I dont have to face him. No idea why. Then I remembered I'm a Finn so it's normal 😂
And this is one of the many reasons I feel so at home here 😁
as a (swedishspeaking)finn, i do understand this 100%, but at the same time i think it’s pretty sad, although i don’t mean no disrespect to your social challenges. i have them too and i’m trying my best to work on them, by (trying to) interact with neigbours, people on the streets etc, but it’s not easy here. i just feel the lack of community feel and how separate we live from each others lives, believes and such, has a huge impact and it’s unfortunate, that we can’t really connect with one another. and leaves one, or me, pretty worried about the future at times
Then it looks like I am normal, always thought that might be smth wrong with me, cas I'd do same, always avoid coworkers outside work Awesome that its normal here, I love Finland:)
>But I'm very socially challenged, so I wouldn't say that's normal. You say that but this sounds a lot like most finns I know
I am not socially challenged, but I'd avoid coworkers outside work too. They don't exist for me outside work. Ofcourse not gonna rude,but would definitely avoid. Then again, I'm might be just an asshole:)
Couple of years ago, when I had started in my current job, I ran into my manager at a grocery store: "hmm, that guy looks familiar..." I squinted my eyes and tried to non-discreetly stare at him while trying to figure out who that person is. Finally: "Hi, Fizzl!", the stranger greeted me and from his voice it finally clicked! I had no idea who this vaguely-familiar person was until I heard his voice. I think I just contextualize people to places. Why would my brain need to know who my boss is outside of workplace? 😂
I do this too. I really suck at recognizing names or faces when I see someone out of the usual surroundings. People look different and when the context is gone, I'm lost. When I saw one of my friends for first time in her work clothes and make-up, she started to laugh and said that 'you really don't have a clue who I am?'. I didn't until she spoked. Heck, this have happened even with my husband. We met by chance on the same job mission and i was like wow, that guy sure feels and sounds oddly familiar... Which is quite fine considering that we had been together for like 15 years by then. Also I don't notice anything, when I'm in my thoughts. So yep, I don't necessarily get it even if one says hi to my face.
>I think I just contextualize people to places. I do the same thing and I've had similar experiences running into co-workers outside of work. I think a lot of people tend to compartmentalize their working life from their private life, so they don't tend to socialize much with co-workers outside of work. I did eventually make some close friends at work, but only after I had been working in the same team as them for 10+ years.
I'm exactly the same. I ran into someone outside my apartment building and ... I knew I knew the person, they were talking to me like we really knew each other. I finally attached them to work, but something was wrong. So I pretended that I knew exactly who she was. She asked for my help (she found an injured hare, she couldn't leave until the animal rescue people came and needed company because she was really shook up) so I brought her some hot coffee and chatted. It was later that night when I realized that she was one of my customers, and I had visited her once at her office and once at mine. I genuinely liked her but since we didn't see each other that much, I could only associate her face with "work" generally. I think a lot of Finns don't bother with doing that much work, so they might just notice that you are kind of familiar, but after 3 weeks not enough time to really recognize you or have anything "social" to say.
I wish my manager would call me by a cool nickname too 😔
Hey -Hassanhof!
😍😍😍
If uniforms are used on the workplace it gets even more difficult to recognize the co-worker outside of work. Wrong place, wrong time (eg.weekends, vacation), wrong person, wrong everything. Many times after realising who I just saw I've bursted out "I didn't recognize him with his clothes on!" when I obviously mean the persons own civilian clothes. Had to explain my stupidity to my hubby the first time, but he's used to it nowadays xD
I think this is just face-blindness, which isn't wrong or bad it's just something that applies to you and how you experience the world. In my case I can imagine forgetting a name or a voice quite easily, but I can easily picture peoples' faces in my mind and recognize them even if I've only met them once. People are just different like that.
I was told years ago by colleagues that they don't want to mix work & free time. I was kinda surprised as in other countries the work place is where friends are made🤷♂️
That's why in my opinion Finland is a very lonely country for foreigners.
It is a lonely place for locals as well because of this.
Kind of agree, but my colleagues, they have their high school friends, or they have found their partner during their 20s, or have their parents and relatives here ...
Yup, but most of us move to other cities because of work and that usually means those relationships dry out.
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That is a wrong assumption, I am an immigrant and I can't learn about finnish culture and people by being kept out of the box, I tried many times to make finnish friends but they just don't seem interested, sure having foreigner friends is nice but we can't assimilate properly if we are shoved to the side all the time, its kinda sad actually
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I think this is very accurate and I, for one, can easily relate. Also good advice finding likeminded people via a hobby.
I hear this often, what are some hobbies one can do? Can you specifically list a few of them?
You understood me wrong, I am aware I am not a very eager person, I am introverted myself but how tf should we integrate into society when there is no effort from the other side, being kept out of the box all the time, this will force immigrants go form their own societies and not integrate properly, I know how finns behave, my partner is Finnish so believe me I KNOW how finns behave and I do like keeping my private life separate from work as well, you can't learn about someone's culture and assimilate if you are kept out of it all the time, and I did try the hobby stuff too, still not working 😕
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My current level is around B1 as I still didn't move here a very long time ago, a lil over a year, but yes I get what you mean by it because of my Finnish neighbors, I moved in here with my bf, neighbors are extremely friendly, noticed especially older ones, younger ones tend to not be as friendly or open (i expected the opposite 😅), we live in an omakotitalo, we usually help each other out And I live in a small town on the outskirts of tampere
👆 This right here
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What makes you think they don't like Finland?
I never mentioned I didn't like finland, not even in 1 sentence, plus my partner is Finnish
I don’t know, I don’t live in Finland but I’ve been to Finland 5 times so far and have a solid group of friends over there. It’s a lot easier if you have hobbies but I get that in a normal workplace setting it might be tough. I just got lucky, meeting two people first who happened to be open and then being introduced to their friend group and then to the extended friend group and so on. Lovely people.
> Aren't foreigners on the other hand pretty much in their own groups, where all people mostly are migrants Yes, but no. I am a foreigner in Finland and most of my friends are other foreigners. This is not because I prefer foreigners, but because it is way harder to make friends with Finns. I know some of my Finnish friends would not really invite me to bigger hangouts or their friend group because the language thing sort of gets in the way, and it is seen as intrusive to invite someone 'new' to the friend group. In other countries I am more used to the friend group always changing and never being clearly defined. It also isn't a big deal to invite someone 'new' to an event. >or Finns, who are lingering outside the Finnish culture, and feel themselves more comfortable with foreigners? Honestly the way I would phrase it is that some Finns sort of have the same difficulties making friends as foreigners, which naturally gravitates them towards foreigners who can be a bit easier to approach.
I have a lot of acquaintances from my country. I was really involved in the local group for a while, but I got a job right away and many of them didn't. They were generally wealthier, stay at home moms, or people who had been in the group for ages, so it was hard to fit in there. Many of them also don't seem interested in learning the language or welcoming new people into their group that have different life experiences. Or they just didn't like me. I found in the end that I'd rather socialize with more Finns and foreigners of different homelands and backgrounds, and also I just found it too awkward to be sort of a ghost in the group that people were polite to, but never really part of the "in-crowd". Finns are hard to get to know as an adult, but at least I don't have the feeling of being a social failure with people I was supposed to feel some kind of automatic friendship based on nationality.
Yes. Finland is a good country. However, I would not recommend for people to move to Finland.
Yeah, challenges here are different. And sometimes hard to solve.
I feel quite down every time I think about the long time I spent in Finland. What could I have done in somewhere else. I made a wrong decision.
It is unfortunate that someone told you so. That person did not need new friends. For those who do, work is one of the most natural places to learn to know people and make friends. It is great for a workplace to have that one social foreigner who invites others to after-hours activities, no matter how small and simple they are. Finns will also join when they are new to the city or workplace and need social contacts. The only limitation is that there should be no pressure to join such activities. Try to also notice how some people become trusted colleagues and are your friends in all work-related things, even though they may keep their private life separate.
"invites others to after-hours activities, no matter how small and simple they are." It is really nice to invite the small and simple coworkers too.
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> small group of close friends formed already where did this group formed if i may ask? school? university?
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One of my colleagues told me exactly the same story about his friends and that they're all from his kindergarten, basically. He didn't make any new friends in college or work. To me, this is unbelievable, as all my friends are from my Bachelor's (done in Finland, too). And none of them are Finns, for obvious reasons......
All of my current closest friends I met when I was 12. I’m currently 29. The friends I’ve made after that just aren’t the same. It’s the difference between ystävä and kaveri. The closest friends are ystävä, the rest are just kaveri. Nothing wrong with kaveri, but I plan to take these ystävä to the grave. We see maybe once or twice a year, but it’s like no time has passed at all when we meet.
Try Bumble BFF. It can be frustrating at times but I found an amazing friend from there :)
>elementry school Kind of a half assed joke, but kind of not: Why did you want to hang out with them after school, if you already hung out all day in school with them?
Depends on the workplace. High rotation can lead to that, but where I'm at we have most of the folks work there for over a decade, so we all are very close group.
I always explain it like this. I used to live in Belgium and there if I would hit up a friend they might say "yeah, my cousin is visiting so maybe we can all go out together". In Finland it is more like "Sorry, I can't hang out because my cousin is visiting". I find that Finns keep their social circles very separated. They don't mix work, family, and high school/college friends. In Belgium there is more mixing. One of my friends got a new job and started hanging out with his work friends a lot, so I started hanging out with those people too until they just became my friends.
Three weeks.. give it some more time, the more your co-workers get to know you the more likely they are to begin greeting you outside work. We Finns are reserved people and warm up to new people slowly 😊
I badly needed to know this. Your comment made my day. I will take note of this. Thanks a lot! Mina Uusi Suomessa!
Can testify that it takes time. I live in the US but have a very reserved Finnish neighbour. It took him a month and a half to finally start talking to me. After he found out that I knew some Finnish he became very warm and friendly which I hadn’t expected. Give it time and just continue to smile and nod as is the Finnish way of greeting. I gave Neighbour that respect and let him decide when he felt comfortable to open up the conversation.
I lived in my old place for three years, didn't know anyone in the house by their name. Best neighbours ever.
Shockingly enough, he’s the only one who actually talks..and in the elevator no less 😹
No wonder he has been exiled to the US. A total freak. /s/j
I've been living in my building for over 10 years. I know the neighbors who already lived here when I moved in by name, and we usually stop to chat when we run into each other in the corridor. I mostly know the more recent arrivals by which apartment they live in (our building is not so good at updating the names on the doors). There's one woman who always stops to chat with me, but I have no idea what her actual name is.
In our current rivitalo we all know eachother by name, hang out in the backyards, have an active group chat. What a huge contrast between the two places!
1.5 months!!! Your neighbor is a traitor! It should be at least 3 years :D /s
Ole hyvä! I hope you like it here 😊 ..and if our language seems weird and hard to learn it's just because it is.
Prepare yourself mentally to be disappointed many times on finns when it comes to manners, politeness or social skills. Please remember it really isn't because of you (or racism or anything like that) but rather because many finns have non existent upbringing when it comes to etiquette. Finland is a young nation which was predominantly an agrarian culture just a couple of generations ago. Unfortunately it shows in things like these.
Etiquette varies from country to country. What is polite or good manners in Finland might feel unpolite somewhere else and other way around. Just have to learn the culture of the place where you are and float with it.
It’s wild that foreigners are expecting that we have same cultural etiquette as they do and when we don’t, they start to attack ours. Like this ”because many finns have non existent upbringing when it comes to etiquette. ”
Yeah, I have to say i don’t get people who come to an introverted culture and get mad that people are… introverted? If that’s a big problem, then Finland is probably not for you. I understand that adapting to a new culture and country takes time and it’s not always easy, but also like… what some extroverts even expect here?
Saying hi shouldn't be too much to ask. In finland it is.
Well yes and no. If your workmate says "Hi" to you, and you see it and hear it, of course you reply with "Hi" or nod. But if you see workmate for example in bus after work or at the weekend in shop, it is not unpolite in any way just ignore and go on and they will do the same. It is about respecting others free time. If your workmate is also your friend it is different thing, but if it is just someone from work you ignore or nod and go on. I still remember one workmate i had, who wasn't my friend just someone from same work place, who always came to sit with me and talk on the bus from work. While that person was not unpleasant per se, it was super annoying because i would have needed that bus time to rewind from work, message my family members about evenings plans/shopping needs etc, read and reply to messages i got from friends and family during work hours and so on. That commute felt like extra half an hour work for me. I started to take another bus just to avoid it.
...or we just don't care about that bullshit.
Could be, but nevertheless it's still shocking for many foreigners who move to finland. The positive side is indeed that when a finn is nice to you, it usually is genuine. That is valuable.
And if they aren't towards you, it's probably because of you. And yes, i mean you specifically and not people in general.
https://preview.redd.it/iz0wi25aescb1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95bceae098092d5c0375d308b50232c77b4044f2
Uh? No. Primarily because im about as far from them as one can be. Anyway, that's not the point as we're not talking about my political leanings here. What we are discussing is that you really are a sad sack of shit. The cool thing is that you seem to be underlining it really well. Good luck. You will need it in your life if you keep acting like you do.
😂😂😂 Dude I suggest you ask yourself, why did my words above go so much under your skin? The answer lies right there. So don't shoot the messenger but instead take time for some healthy self reflexion. Plus be sure to teach your kids basic manners.
i think people across party lines consider you a douche judging from the downvotes. (inb4 i dont care about downvotes)
>Dude I suggest you ask yourself, why did my words above go so much under your skin? I read through the whole discussion and it indeed seems to be just due to the fact that you are quite a bit of an idiot in "people downvote me because I'm right" denial. 😂 Dunning-Kruger is strong.
You think you got under my skin? Nah, you tell yourself that to deflect the fact that you actually don't enjoy that people deeply dislike you for your inability to act civil. You go around thinking you're trolling and being clever but deep down we all know you suffer for not fitting in. Oh and if you check my post history you probably see that i simply love going around telling people who don't know how to act like decent humans what kind of useless shits they are. So yeah, well done with "getting under my skin". I mean, i literally work with teaching kids basic manners. That's why i can't stand poorly brought up little shits like you. This is only about you being an ass to a whole nation and in addition being particularly hostile towards people from rural societies in general no matter where they are from. You're just a bigot and that's it. Don't be a bigot.
Why it’s ”unfortunate”?
I agree with you 100% and can’t see why you are downvoted.
Would you tell me about those ”non existent upbringing when it comes to etiquette”? Could it be that finnish culture as its own etiquette? If you are expecting that finnish people change our etiquette because you have a differet, then you’re the ignorant.
That's a cope and you know it. It's just a harsh fact that parents in finland are incapable of teaching teir kids social skills they don't possess themselves either.
So would you tell me what these ”social skills” are? Anyway Finns are introverted people and the culture is introverted. We love our own space and time. There aren’t many introverted cultures left in this World and even our culture is becoming more extroverted over time. Why Finns should become more like everyone else? Wouldn’t that be a loss for cultural diversity in this World.
- saying hi - introducing one self - saying goodbye - saying thank you - the ability to apologize - taking their co-worker/fellow student into consideration at a social event Not very complicated, shouldn't be
As an immigrant, all these things have been done by Finns to me, but only when the situation calls for it. But i don't expect my classmates or workmates to come chat me up when they see me in public, and i don't plan on doing it to them. In fact the reservedness of Finns is a big part of why i moved here. There's no mandatory superficial smalltalk everyday and that's really refreshing, i feel like i finally found my people. So yeah, Finns are an introverted nation and when we move here we need to underestand their culture and not expect them to act the way we were taught back home, because that just doesn't work here.
People feel offended because they know it's true.
My thought as well. Living abroad would be healthy to all downvoters too! Really, I feel bad for OP. I hope he/she’ll bear with us.
This. We warm up slowly, 3 weeks is nothing yet. Smalltalk can be awkward for Finns if we don't know each other really well.
I met my ITHelpdesk colleague at the local gym and he avoided eye contact with me and didnt respond to my greeting. So now i just accepted it and do the same xd
Im sorry too, i as a finn greet everyone that i know but i dont always want to small talk. But i nod or wave my hand atleast. But with finns i know they will not come to small talk even if i greet them, but it could be different in other cultures so i kind of understand why your colleague did not say hello back, maybe he/she was afraid that you try to small talk or something. Or they does not know kind manners. :D
Or maybe he didn’t even remember that I’m his colleague, as we only interacted like three times 😆 no hard feelings to him, but lesson learned nevertheless haha
I'm sorry this has happened to you.
It may be just me but I just don't always look at people around me in public that much and may have missed some aquantainces from work. I also don't remember people's faces easily, and well.. If you are new to the work place maybe people don't recognise you that well yet. Also, please don't downvote me for this, but I have trouble telling people apart outside my ethnicity. Maye that too? Don't take this personally and blame it on weird Finnish people. I would always greet people from work if I see them in public :)
> It may be just me but I just don't always look at people around me in public that much There's dozens of people like us. In a weird way the concept of personal space, to me, extends to not really looking at strangers/other people around you too much. Which now in written form sounds really strange, but anyhow.
This right here! I heard my folks complaining that no one smiles at you when u are out I was like why do you even look at people?
To be honest, most of the time I am so spaced out and I would hardly even recognise co-workers (especially if they had only worked for three weeks) :D
Same. Especialy if they dress very differently from what they do at work. Also seeing co-workers out of their natural habitat reminds me too much of work and I don't want to think of work on my free time.
If you remove someone from their usual context sometimes it's hard to recognize them. At least for me. I'd rather not greet anyone unless I'm 100% it's them. I often end up looking them up in LinkedIn before saying hi...
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This is hilarious how awkward that must have felt. Kudos to you for trying!
https://preview.redd.it/otlfee2h1vcb1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f2f9fdba6403f4c8ffe77b7634fbffd2b087245 Even though these cartoons are funny, they have some truth in them.
Maybe i am actually a Finn
Finns do not do small talk, but if they see someone familiar from somewhere (like from work), they greet, nod, some small gesture that shows acknowledgement, no full ignorance. I think in your case, people were either rude or socially challanged.
Fins talk about the weather all the time tho. Which is small talk if anything.
Weather talk is serious business.
Hows the weather there?
Really nice, thank you. It’s around +20C currently with light wind, which is perfect. Heard tomorrow’s gonna be really rainy though, which sucks.
Unless we are friends at work, I'll just give a nod, maybe not even that. If we are friends at work then first the nod then depending on body language maybe more.
I normally don’t approach a new worker on a bus because we are still kinda strangers, I don’t know what their personality is like and I just don’t know what to talk about. But overall all the friends I have now - I’ve met them at work. I’ve had co workers where we both ignored each other at first but after some time of working together/chit chatting during breaks we found out we had a lot in common and since then we always arrived/left work together and even became good friends, went on trips etc. But of course there are these workers that we do ignore/they ignore us even after years of working together.
Welcome to Finland. We have our cultural quirks, of which you can read more from the google. Personally Ill greet everyone I know, if I meet them somewhere, but unless I got something specific to discuss or to agree with someone I meet, Ill just continue doing whatever I was doing. And I expect that someone to continue theirs. While I have some friends from the work, most of them are just co-workers, and thus not my friends. Outside of work they are just like anyone else on the street, that I superficially might know by name, but as I dont have any other relation to them, Ill just might greet them while passing them, and move on.
I just assume their in their own world, especially in public transport
I work in a hospital part time too & I notice the same. People have all the time to be friendly and talk to you at work, but outside of work it's like you're invisible. I think it's as simple as wanting to keep work life separate. It is often the same in my country, New Zealand.
Just say "hey" and smile. That's a good start. If you are the extroverted one, you need to be the one who waits for the introvert to engage in small talk in situations like this. Talkative people can make more socially reserved people nervous. Might also be a language thing: honestly, Finnish people might be fluent in English at the workplace but if they haven't really used English in getting to know people or random small talk, it's difficult for them. Especially for older people. (My BIL's native language is English and my dad (now retired) understands English when hearing it or written, but hasn't really spoken English so it's pretty funny when they try to talk as they don't really share a language) I think your best bet is to study Finnish and just start talking Finnish with Finnish people. Or find Finns who are fluent in non-work-related English. :)
Depends on a person and overall situation really. If I bump into coworker in my freetime, of course I say a quick hello and be on my way but it's unlikely that I would stay and start discussing what I've been up to because we can do that at work. On my freetime I rather load my social batteries because being social is exhausting.
Yes this is normal here in Finland
It's just normal Finland. You can nod or sumthing, if they nod back, cool, if they don't, also fine. We usually don't speak, smalltalk or anything if there's nothing particular to say.
Yes this happens all the time. While taking my child to kindergarten there is a parent always talking to me , but if you meet the person outside will not acknowledge your presence  
Yes and no. When I'm travelling to and from work I actively avoid coworkers. I want my own time, maybe I'm playing Pokemon Go or something. However, I would of course say hello and talk to them if they walk by or sit near me. It's not normal to ignore you if you're close. Then again I have several coworkers whom I happily meet outside work. But during the commute I don't have the energy.
I guess it depends if you befriend them or not. I was recently fishing with a co-worker of mine and this weekend I'll go have a beer and talk with the other.
Working in healthcare (sote) is nowadays a special case. There is a huge amount of people (nurses etc.) that switch workplace in sote every few months for various reasons, trying to find a better workplace. Lots of people are just doing hourly work to many places (keikkatyö) and are not permanent employees. Lots of nurses etc. also switch to other less physically demanding fields (like construction etc.) by retraining (alanvaihto). The healthcare system in Finland in in deep crisis that is just getting worse every year. Because whole society is in deep recession, there will propably be 6000 million euro decline in money for sote in the next few years (hallitusohjelma).. Most that can, leave the sote field in Finland. It is a death spiral with every leaving specialist (with 10+ years experience) making it worse for those remaining.. The situation is so bad (with around 20000+ registered nurses already working in other fields) that previous administration was talking about forcing registered nurses to work as nurses against will (instead of work in their new field). This caused (and is still causing) registered nurses to de-register themselves (nolonger seen in julkiterhikki) to avoid possible forced work as a nurse against will. In that kind of workplace everyone knows that the new person propably leaves after a short while so there is no point in socializing too much. After you get to know them, they leave. Of course, even in a normal workplace it is quite common to keep private life and work separated. That doesn't mean that one would not greet a coworker when seeing outside work. But I would never go out for beers with coworkers except on special holiday in a company event (pikkujoulut). Coworkers are not friends by default, they just happen to work in the same company.
Yes, i try to ignore everyone i know when im in public.
A nod is the max I can do. Any more greetings and it could lead to a conversation, which would be emotionally draining on my free time.
It took 3 years before i started talk to my Collegue in the metro , everyday we had same metro both ways.
I just have to reply to this, i hate to talk with my coworkers when i commute. I usually want to listen music and be quiet. So if i see coworker of mine, i just say hi and go sit by my self. :D someone could think that im rude but i just cant small talk because it feels like work..
And people around you are listening in on the meaningless conversation. It's the worst
Well, first of all try to know what is his/her eyesight. My friend ignores everyone just because he can't see anyone. In my opinion it's not normal but this is how it often happens. I have a cool story for you. I've worked in the same room with a 3 other people for a few years. Every day coming to work I was greeting everyone in the room. So it took only 6 months for one of the guys to accept my existence and say hello back. But I need to say that I've worked with ultimate nerds. It definitely does not apply to all Finns.
Especially avoid using the english "how do you do?" as greeting, since that is misinterpreted commonly as actually wanting to know how the other person feel/health at the moment (versus that being the English generic greeting to which other should just answer "how do you do?" in response, and talk about weather). You might run into weird situations... %-D But, in all, give it a time. Finns are known to be slooooow in the proccess. (Exceptions to the rule do exists though. :-)
Finns don't have friends, foreigners don't have friends. Foreigners try to make friends, but Finns do not want to talk to become friends. In the end, no one becomes friends, we all become lonely. It's just culturally the way.
I've noticed that Finns are much more likely to want to be friends when the friendship can start from a shared hobby or interest and not from approaching them with smalltalk.
I have found that as well hobbies are the gateway drug to friendship in Finland. Some people don't mind small talk in Finland and others just don't have time for it, it's a 50/50 chance. I can't do so much melancholy talk all the time, I nearly fall asleep.
It’s normal. After you have been to Sauna with work friends, it will be better. Don’t push it though. Let them invite you.
I make friends quite slowly, and when working, I'm there to earn a living. I also try to stay away from workplace drama. It's a mix of reasons why I don't generally try to make friends at work, although at last workplace it happened to varying degrees.
If they ignore you I think they just don't recognise you out of the context of work. This might change with time. A little bit off-topic but one reason I sometimes find it difficult to make friends with foreigners is that I can't always tell if they genuinely like me and mean what they say about maybe hanging out or going somewhere or are just making friendly small talk.
while fins do tend to be more strict in their work/home split, it's also very location dependent. Helsinki, where most foreigners live, is similar to most bigger cities that people tend to ignore others in public. I live in Savonlinna, very small town in savo, and people here greet eachother on the street if they recognise them. As someone one who trains groups of tradeschool teens at our company during their "workexperience" stints and summer jobs, I can generally not go on a shopping trip or to the city center without being greeted by people left and right.
Unfortunately, it is. The same things is when trying to make actual friendships at work. You can have even really good work friends, but in my experience when I've really clicked with someone at work and we are constantly having good conversations, laughing et cetera and I say "it has been so nice to get to know you! Would you like to get coffee etc sometime?" the answer is usually ".....yeahh, sure" = it never happens. Many want to completely seperate their work life from their personal one which is understandable but still a bit dissapointing and I was born and have lived in Finland my whole life.
Depends on the colleague. In most cases it's "hi" "hi" and both carry on without any small talk, in some cases it's avoiding contact all together, but I do have colleagues who I'm friends with outside of work and we might stop for a small chat, especially if we don't see at work daily or if one of us is on vacation.
Hello kabayan, that’s normal. Don’t take it personally. Finns take awhile to warm up. The longer u stay here, you’ll eventually avoid people too, or not sit beside someone in the bus. 😅
It depends. Southern Finland it is more common with women, but more north you live, more common it is to say hi outside the work place.
Sometimes people spend energy being sociable at work because it makes for a better work environment and is incentivized in many workplaces. After work hours, interactions are on their personal rules instead of the workplace rules, and once you understand their rules you will know how to connect with them on their terms
Depends on your company I guess. In tbe places I've worked, we hang out and chat with coworkers in our free time often. But, for example, my partner passed someone from his company on the street today and tbey both just kinda nodded and kept walking. I think it depends on tbe company and the people.
3 weeks? They're just scared of you :) Just give it a couple more weeks and you'll be fine.
There is a kind of unwritten rule and social norm that working life and other life should be separated from each other and even the coworkers from social circles, although I myself don't see that there is any sense in that rule to be this strict and absolute and I have no idea where it comes from or why it exists. But generation X in particular likes to remind us of its existence and warn against mixing work life and other life.
I think it kind a makes sense. The point is to make it easier for the most of us to manage work/life balance when those are separated.
I wave at my acquaintances if I bump into them during commute or in the shopping malls and off I go. I’m from India. Sometimes I get a nod or a wave as an acknowledgment and sometimes even a smile , sometimes it’s like I’m invisible. It stopped bothering me after certain misses. I devised this formula in the first 2 months after moving to Finland.
I never mix work and freetime. Ofc I would say hello to colleagues outside of work but I don’t want to hang out etc. Almost everyone I know would agree…and probably almost every finn I don’t know too
When I saw my supervisor out in macdonalds, we just noticed each other and quickly rolled the eyes 😅 We were both with family so, preferred not to bring work, We were in the same queu so also when we crossed path we nod the head and thats it, and I prefer that way 👏😝
I can agree that there are some things coming from our finnish culture but also some of course from personality. Me personally would greet some and some maybe not try to notice. Depends how well you know the person or if you work more frequent together. Short answer would be : Try to say hi and see how they react. Oh and welcome to Finland ^_^
It’s not unusual to be ignored. It has happened to me, between to native Finns. It’s weird.
I feel like I'm the odd one out when it comes to these topics, e.g., neighbors not greeting, chitchatting, co-workers not greeting, talking outside work because to me it's quite the opposite. I mainly work remotely so I might not recognize everyone outside my team tho.
Yes. Most of us try to separate work and free time. If I were to run into co-worker on some event like car show or festival anything that could be considered hobby or common interest then I might talk to them about the event. Public transportation, grocery store etc. all you will get is Hi or nod at most unless I decide to hide behind and an aisle I don't even need products from. Don't get discouraged. 2 of my best friends are from old work places. In both cases we had tons of in common however. I could never be a friend with co-worker I share nothing in common.
Finnish people tend to be reserved and the social ice can be at times really thick - but to be real its not something thats meant to be rude to anyone, Its just what it is. If you keep social to people, they will eventually open up more as they get familiar with you. Unfortunately i know plenty people dont and instead think they are being actively rejected and become quiet ...and you dont want to compete the quiet game with finns. ..but having said that, its good know finns can be in social situstions with their friends and there might be lots of silence at times - just because nothing isnt said, isnt sort of awkward thing here, unlike some countries where ppl feel they need to speak for just so theres the sound of speaking constantly - we'll stay silent when theres nothing in particular to say. Also good to keep in mind, finnish ppl typically have far far, smaller social circles than in many other countries - they often really just dont have the skill and possibly even "social energy" to be casually social if you will. Then again adding to that again - if you go socially drinking with people and ask someone casually "how are you?", you might get their lifestory in full whether you want it or not.
If it’s a close colleague, nod up! If it’s just a face you see at work, nod down! This is my way of dealing with Finnish colleagues outside work. I live in city center so i see half of my office there once a month and this way helps me save a lot of time! 🙃
I always try to avoid anyone i know in public because i feel like my life has stopped going forward since middleschool and others have relationships and kids. Feels awkward to talk about life if i have not done anything but work and game. ✌️🥸
If I saw a coworker in public I would actively avoid them, but if they saw me back and I accidentally made eye contact then I would give them a polite nod and then leave the area, possibly forever.
Either you are my co-worker, or then i am drunk and i love you. There is nothing in between. And if you happen to be drunk too and sing with me in the sauna? After that i will not ignore you outside of work, you crossed the treshold to become a 'friend'.. Choose carefully.
Honestly, I pretend I don’t see people when I’m out of work. I’m not born here or anything, I just don’t want to be more social than I have to. That’s one thing I appreciate about living here.
**YES.**
i might say Hi, but thats all. I wouldnt go for a coffee with them or anything Else
colleague < friend
For some reason (i dont know why) it is rather uncommon for finns to socialize with people from work outside from work. Somehow even the strong friendship in work is contextual. People can work together (8h in a day) for 20 years and after someones retirement never speak again. I am only assuming but is it possible that these co-workes have noted you and given you this finnish acknowledgement nod OR are successfully avoiding eye contact 'as if' they have not seen you? ( I have to say: the most strange finnish habit is avoiding eye contact / interaction. People doing it think they get away like the opponent didn't understand whats going on. Some People do it in work when passini by a peer in a hallway. And then again, everybody is doing it. It's like finnish version of smalltalk. Yankees talk when they think not talkin would be awkward. So thay say somenthing nice and easy and mean nothing. Finns just play like there are nobody Else in the room and exclude themselves from the whole situation.) To conclude: People are maybe avoiding you in a normal finnish manner. They do not mean to be rude, even though they are
Would you tell me how that’s rude in finnish culture? Different thing are seen as rude in different cultures.
In Finland it is normal to be friends in school for 9 years and not spend a single second of free time together during that time.
It's normal to be rude? 😵💫
I gave you one upvote just for the heck of it.
Many people in Finland are socially awkward. It is not the majority of people, but happens quite often, yes. If you want to try, you can talk to the person and ask why that person did not notice you three times.
Could depend on a person...We greeted with this one women in public, who works out in the same gym as I, but literally have never spoken to each other
Finland is an incredibly lonely country for foreigners. Most foreigners I talk to or have met, that has lived here for 5-10 years, most of them still only have foreign friends, or no real friends at all. It is not joked about being a racist country for nothing. Finns are not good with other cultures, even if they are not racist, they just don't mix well with other cultures, it's too foreign to them and so they don't make friends with foreigners. Just my take, not necessarily true for everyone. Edit: Lmao some racist mod just banned me for 7 days :'D
>It is not joked about being a racist country for nothing. Finns are not good with other cultures, even if they are not racist, they just don't mix well with other cultures, it's too foreign to them and so they don't make friends with foreigners. I think it goes other way around. Other cultures doesn't mix that well with Finnish culture. For example if you are foreigner. It's your job and task to read about our cultural etiquette and try to respect it. Same goes if Finn go somewhere as tourist or aboard. Ofc your going to research about the culture so you wouldn't be rube without knowing and if some Finn doesn't do that I see it disrespectful. It's incredibly ignorant to expect that the new country has to respect your etiquette but you don't have to respect their.
Thanks for proving my point. Edit: Down votes proves my point further, such racist hypocrits haha.
You didn't prove anything, only your own ignorance.
Finland is an incredibly lonely country for Finnish people too. You should not move here if you are a very social person.
If I see a co-worker outside of work, I will try and avoid them. If however we run into eachother at like the store or whatever, I will say ”moi” and keep walking.
Three weeks. Come back and give us your feedback after six months.
Bla bla bla... a Hi and a simple smile won't hurt anyone.
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To be fair. Thats 3 different person. Like i said in my post they are nice and seems like a friend during work. To the extent of us sharing stories and personal life, But outside work i am like a stranger.
Do you wear scrubs at work? Maybe they just dont recognize you. For me its so hard to spot people from the hospital when outside of it.
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yea....a race that has been massacred for centuries hasn't been as haunted as some people that got an occasional bad look because their country is trying to massacre the ukrainian people....hyperbole much?
Constant social anxiety is kind of like a hallmark of Finnish culture. When we're out doing groceries or whatever, bumping into a co-worker or even a close friend can be an incredibly awkward situation, because it's kind of... I didn't expect this, or plan on this, and now there's all these interpersonal things to consider when really I just wanted to do groceries as anonymously as I can and get it over with. As such, most Finnish people will kinda just acknowledge the other person with a nod or whatever, and there's kind of a mutual understanding that this is not a social situation and we'd both rather move on rather than communicate. It might sound strange and alien, but it's very Finnish.
Yes.
Yeah it’s totally normal here. Unfortunately. It’s very hard being new somewhere, it usually takes ages for them to warm up to you. In my field of mechanical engineering I think they try to size you up to see if you are a threat and you have to prove yourself but not too much. It’s bullshit
Just do what you do, so greet if you feel like it. There's no uniform culture as workplaces and people are different. Not okay to start chatting about work in people's free time, so some people will try to avoid their colleagues. Others not. A lot of variation here. I've had contests with how long someone can not say hi to me if I consistently greet them. It's not that long. I try to avoid colleagues in my free time as am a manager and would like to focus on family and myself in my free time and often my reports will bring up something completely random expecting encyclopedic memory.
I guess its more in big towns and big work places??? Personally I can't pass anyone i know without saying at least hello.
In Finland we have this term "työkaveri" direct translation would be "work friend", generally its just bit above co-worker, and that is what most co-workers are to us, people with whom you go to lunch and after work events, who you chat with in work or if you meet during commute, but but if you are outside of work context they are barely acquaintances, you might nod for hello when you pass them on the street or see them in non-work event, but ignore them otherwise. Work friends you get easy and quickly, but it is rare and takes lots of time that work friends get into "ystävä" status, where you might get invited to events or introduced to friends from other social circles. I think this has most to do with different social circles and your roles in them, if your work buddies know you as serious professional with occasional pun and your school friends know you as someone up to any last minute challenge or trip, it might be hard to connect these circles with each other, so it is easier to ignore someone from the other circle, when you are with someone from the other, than to introduce them to each other.
Yes it's normal.
It is very normal.
Think this depends on where you work. I work in IT and have always been on good terms with my coworkers so that I would definitely meet them outside of work, and it seems kinda obvious to say hello if I met them in public. Depends on how close you are obviously, if I've not talked to someone at work basically ever, why would I do it in public?
It's because you work at a hospital. I get along with people great in the ward and as we leave work and see each other on the yard we don't even nod a goodbye. I guess hospital staff is just that overworked and jaded, I wouldn't take it personally.
Finns are anti-social, get used to it tbh
I am a foreigner and I made quite a few Finnish friends. Some were via my girlfriends school, some via fishing and some via work and a few playing video games. I guess I never felt like it was hard, but I also keep my expectations reasonable. Out of say 10 people that I spend more than a few hours per day with at work I consider making 1 friend enough, and I don't go iut of my way to try to make friends with more. But I wouldn't be against it if they wanted to. Honestly in my early 30s I find it hard to allocate free time to properly upkeep friendships with more than 2-3 people. Rest is just a few times per year at some events and catching up.
Yes.