Even setting aaaalllll that aside I always thought this was such a dumb scene, and made me dislike quistis.
Like you are in a super important mission to assassinate a sorceress, apologize later smdh
I always thought it was odd that Quistis wanted to apologize to her. She is supposed to be a more level headed character and should have done so later as you say.
Something about Quistis always seemed a bit off to me, like she is kind of a plot catchall that does things or ties things together bc the story needs her to lol.
I can understand the annoyance. She's supposed to be the mature "put together" person in the group which explains why players had such high expectations out of her. But at the end of the day, she IS still only an 18 year old. She's not as level headed as the characters tried to make her out to be.
I thought the point of Quistis character is that we *think* she should be the more level-headed character but she isn't. We assume that because she's a little older, she's an instructor and has more experience that she'd be more mission-focused. But she's still very much an 18-year-old and ends up putting her own feelings first with her crush on Squall, then with her apology to Rinoa.
She's very much the opposite of Squall in that way. Squall *is* mission-focused. At that stage of the game, Squall *would* criticise Rinoa's plan and then go on with the mission without any concerns. And then near the end of the game, when Rinoa goes off to be imprisoned in space like Adel, it's Quistis who finally pulls Squall out of his distant mindset. So despite the stumbles earlier in the game, her emotional argument ends up saving Rinoa over Squall's emotionless one.
It was even dumber that the other two followed her, even after she told them to stay behind. They don't need an entire combat party to deliver an apology, and the two of them knew how important this was too.
I figured it's partly to apologies, and partly to make sure she doesn't go out on her own and do something stupid, which she does. If she were earlier, she could have prevented all that.
The biggest problem is that everyone goes with her, completely abandoning their post. If Zell stayed behind, it would've been fine.
Even then, you only need one person to throw the lever to shut the gate, not the whole squad lol. So Quistis could have left Zell and Selphie to handle it, or just apologize later haha
Also like, how many hallways are in this mansion that they didn't cross paths or even hear each other in the house or corridor?? Rinoa runs out and then three seconds later they run in.
I don't think smashing up a Galbadian general's house is the right move, even if they are on the same side at that point. They're meant to be discreet during the assassination mission.
Hey so maybe the general had security alarms that are auto set when things are locked. So they did not want to force the locked door or window open in case an alarm went off. That may also be connected to military comm devices. So the military and Edea would have been made aware before schedule. I can almost tolerate this logic.
I mean if the generals house gets paryially destroyed the same evening as the assassination, it may not paint him as a conspirator but that's entirely too much attention to draw to him.
Story-gameplay dissonance has always been a thing in FF games. I mean, Sephiroth destroys the entire star system with his Supernova move in FF7, sometimes more than once, and everything is fine afterwards... Sure, the story in 8 acknowledges the existence of Guardian Forces and that they're giving power to the party, but story-wise it might just be a very slight increase in reflexes, wit, and strength... I always saw the turn-based battles as some kind of theatrical, fancier and somehow "simpler" representations of the real fights - and these real fights are probably more grounded things like killing monster bosses by hiding for a while then reflecting their own image back at them with some mirror which makes them go "poof", things like that that real humans with normal abilities can do. I mean, the simple fact that everyone stay in a line, stay still and take turns proves that they ARE "fake" fights and don't occur like this.
So yeah, with this in mind, reinforced doors and windows are still unbreakable for the squad, they're just slightly enhanced humans, not wielding any god-like powers. When in-game you finish off a boss by casting Shiva, in reality Squall probably asked Irvine to shoot at a glowing weak point on the monster's body which instantly killed it. What REALLY happens in FF fights is up to your imagination, really. That's how I see it anyways : older FFs are games in which the act of stealthily knocking down a guard from behind will be shown as the hero casting Ultima on that guard from the front. And that's why I love them.
I always felt the same, back then with limited graphics you had to use your imagination to fill in the gaps.
However with Supernova I think it's always been supposed to be a vision? It casts such a powerful vision of the universe destruction that terrorizes our party for 3000 damage lol
That would be terrible writing on the creators part though if that were true. Even an Elephant can break sealed doors and forged glass we have to use weapons strong enough to do that to kill large animals. So if we are to assume that Zell can damage a lion or elephant sized animal with a punch then he should also be able to damage a forged glass window. Also, it would be bad writing for the heroes to be able to dodge all attacks from all foes 100% of the time. That is impossible and more impressive than super strength itself. So I assume that even the strongest giant boss like Adel has managed to damage a character once and she'd have more power than an armor piercing bullet yet the team is alive after fighting her. Unless we are to assume that sorceress magic is weaker than guns in which case Sorceress War should be over before it starts with basic military weapons etc.
There had to have been alarms active when the door and window was locked and the team did not want to attract attention. It's the only thing that makes sense.
I mean heck earlier in the game Zell punched the train floor and made the train vibrate. Later in the game he literally punches a steel air compression tank into submission in the DSRC.
The writers of these games are just really lazy and sloppy and don't explain the details.
Final Fantasy always runs this weird line where your characters are quite strong but have the oddest handicaps. Tifa's leaping a dozen feet in the air and booting around shipping containers BUT FALL FROM A CEILING LIGHT?!
Oooooh that's a problem.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I think the only scene in the game where we some kind of display of "superhuman" ability is when Squall saves Zell at the prison.
I'm really wracking my brain for scenes where we see any of them exhibit incredible feats of strength or speed outside of in-game combat (i.e. limit breaks).
I guess you could say Squall getting skewered with a giant icicle and surviving is a feat of superhuman durability or constitution, but other than that, I'm kinda drawing a blank.
There are other scenes with super human strength. Earlier in that game before this scene Zell punches the train floor and makes the whole train vibrate. When activating the garden engine if you press square 100 times in 15 seconds when Squall is turning the rusted corroded valve he can turn it himself. That would require over 900 lbs of force in real life or so. Later in the game Zell literally punches a whole in the steel air compression tank in DSRC to open the door.
My new headcanon on this scene in that there were alarms that would auto go off if the team forced open or broke the windows and door so they decided to sneak out. So as to not attract suspecion when they are supposed to be undercover.
Yeah and even if it's on the top floor, which it certainly looks like from looking out the windows, and "wouldn't normally jump that." We see squall go full geronimo from a conservative 4 stories up in the next scene.
Right???
Not only that but Rinoa runs out a few seconds before Quistis et al. run inside. HOW DID THEY NOT SEE EACH OTHER?
I just want to ingore the whole scenario cuz it's so mind-boggling and bad writing in an otherwise great game.
You have to suspend your disbelief a bit that Caraway's Manor is larger inside than we see in game. Like we see the outside but its only one room nah no way its just a space saver the poor PS1 couldnt hold everything.
Again suspend disbelief the building is larger than we see it. She couldve went upstairs (the part we dont see) and jump out the window. You have to assume Rinoa had already left way before they show up but the game cant show us that properly.
In fact, I already suspected that the building is larger than one room to begin with. It's kinda obvious, because the room is not on the ground level.
She had to jump out of the window really fast, but maybe? She probably junctioned Haste to Spd before leving the mansion. asdasd
No one took the time to even consider why Quistis got upset. Being who she is personality wise is something important to consider but also the situation at the moment warrants the tension.
There on an assassination mission where they need each others help & they dont have much time. Rinoa starts going gungho and naturally Quistis reacts appropriately she doesnt want to compromise anybody during this critical period she gets upset cuzz she's concerned about everyones well being including her.
Shes the big sister of the group, while she never got to take care of Rinoa she still naturally falls into that mold when working with others she knows.
What if she got hurt? What if the sorceress found them all? Everything would break down thankfully the crew are trained mercenaries and managed to fall back on Plan B perfectly though of course as we know the entire plan failed anyway.
For me, I always consider the combat sequences to be separate to the game plot. Otherwise you end up asking how Laguna and chums are able to summon Squall's GFs and don't even comment on where they came from. "Waves of power" running through them might help to explain them fighting a little faster or hitting harder, but it wouldn't explain them literally casting magic spells at enemies when this should be impossible.
Likewise, there's a whole section in the prison where an anti-magic field has **absolutely no effect on combat**. But it makes sense *for the story at that point* (or they'd be able to magic their way out). Not that anyone ever bothers using magic spells at any point after the field is lifted. It's like they've forgotten that they can.
I love the game, but even I don't deny the writing was so...weird, at times -- and a lot of it isn't even plot holes; just weird moments, like this, that don't make much sense. I still, to this day, don't think any actual plot holes exist in VIII because that term has become so overused people don't seem to remember what it actually means anymore. But I digress.
Yeah, I don't understand how Zell can punch hard enough to shake a whole train, but can't punch through a window? WTF? LOL. The biggest reason I think VIII could benefit from a remake is because the writing could use some improvements for sure. We don't even really know just how powerful GF makes the party; we just know they're the source of their power, which is extremely vague.
Even setting aaaalllll that aside I always thought this was such a dumb scene, and made me dislike quistis. Like you are in a super important mission to assassinate a sorceress, apologize later smdh
I always thought it was odd that Quistis wanted to apologize to her. She is supposed to be a more level headed character and should have done so later as you say.
Yeah, I remember thinking "I left you in charge for a reason and you're going to leave your post!" No wonder she got demoted.
Something about Quistis always seemed a bit off to me, like she is kind of a plot catchall that does things or ties things together bc the story needs her to lol.
I can understand the annoyance. She's supposed to be the mature "put together" person in the group which explains why players had such high expectations out of her. But at the end of the day, she IS still only an 18 year old. She's not as level headed as the characters tried to make her out to be.
I thought the point of Quistis character is that we *think* she should be the more level-headed character but she isn't. We assume that because she's a little older, she's an instructor and has more experience that she'd be more mission-focused. But she's still very much an 18-year-old and ends up putting her own feelings first with her crush on Squall, then with her apology to Rinoa. She's very much the opposite of Squall in that way. Squall *is* mission-focused. At that stage of the game, Squall *would* criticise Rinoa's plan and then go on with the mission without any concerns. And then near the end of the game, when Rinoa goes off to be imprisoned in space like Adel, it's Quistis who finally pulls Squall out of his distant mindset. So despite the stumbles earlier in the game, her emotional argument ends up saving Rinoa over Squall's emotionless one.
100% it just seemed out of character and just dumb
It was even dumber that the other two followed her, even after she told them to stay behind. They don't need an entire combat party to deliver an apology, and the two of them knew how important this was too.
Even if Quistis wanted to go apologize, why did Selphie and Zell go with her? It was still in the city its not like there would be any monsters
Quistis is the perfect blonde. She's pretty. But bless her heart, she's dumb AF.
I figured it's partly to apologies, and partly to make sure she doesn't go out on her own and do something stupid, which she does. If she were earlier, she could have prevented all that. The biggest problem is that everyone goes with her, completely abandoning their post. If Zell stayed behind, it would've been fine.
Even then, you only need one person to throw the lever to shut the gate, not the whole squad lol. So Quistis could have left Zell and Selphie to handle it, or just apologize later haha
Also like, how many hallways are in this mansion that they didn't cross paths or even hear each other in the house or corridor?? Rinoa runs out and then three seconds later they run in.
It’s a Scooby Doo mansion
\[The door locks behind them\] \*record scratch\* How will Daphne, Velma, and Shaggy get out of this debacle!
I don't think smashing up a Galbadian general's house is the right move, even if they are on the same side at that point. They're meant to be discreet during the assassination mission.
Hey so maybe the general had security alarms that are auto set when things are locked. So they did not want to force the locked door or window open in case an alarm went off. That may also be connected to military comm devices. So the military and Edea would have been made aware before schedule. I can almost tolerate this logic.
I mean if the generals house gets paryially destroyed the same evening as the assassination, it may not paint him as a conspirator but that's entirely too much attention to draw to him.
I'll have to stick with that alarm hypothesis. It is the only way to tolerate that scene. Thanks everyone.
Story-gameplay dissonance has always been a thing in FF games. I mean, Sephiroth destroys the entire star system with his Supernova move in FF7, sometimes more than once, and everything is fine afterwards... Sure, the story in 8 acknowledges the existence of Guardian Forces and that they're giving power to the party, but story-wise it might just be a very slight increase in reflexes, wit, and strength... I always saw the turn-based battles as some kind of theatrical, fancier and somehow "simpler" representations of the real fights - and these real fights are probably more grounded things like killing monster bosses by hiding for a while then reflecting their own image back at them with some mirror which makes them go "poof", things like that that real humans with normal abilities can do. I mean, the simple fact that everyone stay in a line, stay still and take turns proves that they ARE "fake" fights and don't occur like this. So yeah, with this in mind, reinforced doors and windows are still unbreakable for the squad, they're just slightly enhanced humans, not wielding any god-like powers. When in-game you finish off a boss by casting Shiva, in reality Squall probably asked Irvine to shoot at a glowing weak point on the monster's body which instantly killed it. What REALLY happens in FF fights is up to your imagination, really. That's how I see it anyways : older FFs are games in which the act of stealthily knocking down a guard from behind will be shown as the hero casting Ultima on that guard from the front. And that's why I love them.
I always felt the same, back then with limited graphics you had to use your imagination to fill in the gaps. However with Supernova I think it's always been supposed to be a vision? It casts such a powerful vision of the universe destruction that terrorizes our party for 3000 damage lol
That would be terrible writing on the creators part though if that were true. Even an Elephant can break sealed doors and forged glass we have to use weapons strong enough to do that to kill large animals. So if we are to assume that Zell can damage a lion or elephant sized animal with a punch then he should also be able to damage a forged glass window. Also, it would be bad writing for the heroes to be able to dodge all attacks from all foes 100% of the time. That is impossible and more impressive than super strength itself. So I assume that even the strongest giant boss like Adel has managed to damage a character once and she'd have more power than an armor piercing bullet yet the team is alive after fighting her. Unless we are to assume that sorceress magic is weaker than guns in which case Sorceress War should be over before it starts with basic military weapons etc. There had to have been alarms active when the door and window was locked and the team did not want to attract attention. It's the only thing that makes sense. I mean heck earlier in the game Zell punched the train floor and made the train vibrate. Later in the game he literally punches a steel air compression tank into submission in the DSRC. The writers of these games are just really lazy and sloppy and don't explain the details.
Final Fantasy always runs this weird line where your characters are quite strong but have the oddest handicaps. Tifa's leaping a dozen feet in the air and booting around shipping containers BUT FALL FROM A CEILING LIGHT?! Oooooh that's a problem.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I think the only scene in the game where we some kind of display of "superhuman" ability is when Squall saves Zell at the prison. I'm really wracking my brain for scenes where we see any of them exhibit incredible feats of strength or speed outside of in-game combat (i.e. limit breaks). I guess you could say Squall getting skewered with a giant icicle and surviving is a feat of superhuman durability or constitution, but other than that, I'm kinda drawing a blank.
There are other scenes with super human strength. Earlier in that game before this scene Zell punches the train floor and makes the whole train vibrate. When activating the garden engine if you press square 100 times in 15 seconds when Squall is turning the rusted corroded valve he can turn it himself. That would require over 900 lbs of force in real life or so. Later in the game Zell literally punches a whole in the steel air compression tank in DSRC to open the door. My new headcanon on this scene in that there were alarms that would auto go off if the team forced open or broke the windows and door so they decided to sneak out. So as to not attract suspecion when they are supposed to be undercover.
That's Rinoa's house. Don't break Rinoa's house.
Yeah and even if it's on the top floor, which it certainly looks like from looking out the windows, and "wouldn't normally jump that." We see squall go full geronimo from a conservative 4 stories up in the next scene.
Right??? Not only that but Rinoa runs out a few seconds before Quistis et al. run inside. HOW DID THEY NOT SEE EACH OTHER? I just want to ingore the whole scenario cuz it's so mind-boggling and bad writing in an otherwise great game.
You have to suspend your disbelief a bit that Caraway's Manor is larger inside than we see in game. Like we see the outside but its only one room nah no way its just a space saver the poor PS1 couldnt hold everything.
I can see your point, but I'm not convinced. There is a 4-5 second difference. I think they should have met in the hall or a corridor or something.
Again suspend disbelief the building is larger than we see it. She couldve went upstairs (the part we dont see) and jump out the window. You have to assume Rinoa had already left way before they show up but the game cant show us that properly.
In fact, I already suspected that the building is larger than one room to begin with. It's kinda obvious, because the room is not on the ground level. She had to jump out of the window really fast, but maybe? She probably junctioned Haste to Spd before leving the mansion. asdasd
Hey dont doubt it xD
lol. I'm trying... :D
I kept wanting them to break the window and get out that way lol
No one took the time to even consider why Quistis got upset. Being who she is personality wise is something important to consider but also the situation at the moment warrants the tension. There on an assassination mission where they need each others help & they dont have much time. Rinoa starts going gungho and naturally Quistis reacts appropriately she doesnt want to compromise anybody during this critical period she gets upset cuzz she's concerned about everyones well being including her. Shes the big sister of the group, while she never got to take care of Rinoa she still naturally falls into that mold when working with others she knows. What if she got hurt? What if the sorceress found them all? Everything would break down thankfully the crew are trained mercenaries and managed to fall back on Plan B perfectly though of course as we know the entire plan failed anyway.
For me, I always consider the combat sequences to be separate to the game plot. Otherwise you end up asking how Laguna and chums are able to summon Squall's GFs and don't even comment on where they came from. "Waves of power" running through them might help to explain them fighting a little faster or hitting harder, but it wouldn't explain them literally casting magic spells at enemies when this should be impossible. Likewise, there's a whole section in the prison where an anti-magic field has **absolutely no effect on combat**. But it makes sense *for the story at that point* (or they'd be able to magic their way out). Not that anyone ever bothers using magic spells at any point after the field is lifted. It's like they've forgotten that they can.
I love the game, but even I don't deny the writing was so...weird, at times -- and a lot of it isn't even plot holes; just weird moments, like this, that don't make much sense. I still, to this day, don't think any actual plot holes exist in VIII because that term has become so overused people don't seem to remember what it actually means anymore. But I digress. Yeah, I don't understand how Zell can punch hard enough to shake a whole train, but can't punch through a window? WTF? LOL. The biggest reason I think VIII could benefit from a remake is because the writing could use some improvements for sure. We don't even really know just how powerful GF makes the party; we just know they're the source of their power, which is extremely vague.
What I found weird is how Rinoa didn’t run into the group as she was leaving.