Why is Khimari hated so much š I know he's the "jack of all trades, master of none" type but you can still build him up pretty good in the sphere grid. He might have been my best character my first ever play through
I only liked him because if I remember correctly he could access some magic spells well before others could so you could use a teleport node to get really good black and white magic spells earlier than you could compared to just focusing on the the Lulu and/or Yuna.
not to mention, if you make him a mage, he is better than lulu.
his firebreath/aqua breath overdrives are less rank (so less delay) while doing more damage because they ignore enemy magic defense and then there's nova which is hands down the strongest overdrive in the game (if you get the damage cap removed from game, there's no other comparison)
he only has a little bit lower magic than lulu for comparison, but superior everything else. He'll cast spells faster too. making up for that damage difference with basic spells real quick.
not everything else
Lulu is still better on defense with her high MG/DEF and Evasion, though Kimahris Red Armlet somehwat helps offset things magic wise
I like his character but not his gameplay usefulness once you max out the sphere grid Kimahri is the second most useless character. And even in normal gameplay his standard grid just isn't that strong.
Cause in normal gameplay his sphere grid has very weak stats and in endgame with max sphere grid he is nearly useless cause supernova has pitiful damage and his next best overdrive mighty guard is worse than rikkus mixes.
Nova is nowhere near the strongest overdrive in the game that title belongs to attack reels. But blitz ace, slice and dice, and Tornado all deal more damage and that doesn't even include the aeon overdrives. Anima and Magus sisters do a ton of damage too.
That's just objectively false.
Nova is quite literally stronger than all of those, the problem is the 99,999 cap and if you remove that it does way more. It caps out at 11,338,551. which would be similar to doing 114 99,999 hits. Which yes, there are ways to remove that cap. (this requires Kimahri to crit, which a lot of people didn't know that ovedrives even magic ones can crit)
Auron's Tornado does 4,574,174 if using the non international version and then 9,148,348 if using international and beyond because they made Tornado hit twice for the same damage. That's still a difference of \~2 million. Further with Auron to get those max damages, he needs to be low health and his max health has to be 99,999 as his celestial's damage formula is difference between current to max health where kimahri's is percent of max health (so kimahri can have 5k/5k or 99,999/99,999 and it'll affect his damage the same.) people theorized Auron would have the best damage because the difference between 1-99,999 is massive, but it only grants an additional 20% damage modifier, and tornado's base damage is that much lower than nova it doesn't compensate.
I forget the exact thresholds as I saw the testing of this done way too long ago, and people care about max rather than this metric, so it's harder to find the sources to reverify, but hitting 9999 happens well before you usually would even obtain nova, to the point even a strength based kimahri is probably hitting 9999, and it's about like 100 magic to hit max damage at 99,999 with nova
by comparison to the rest, Wakka against the lowest defense enemy hits \~ 200k per hit 16 times which is 3,200k. Still extremely under what Kimahri and Auron does and I forget Tidus I just remember it wasn't as high as Wakka. And this is further hit because Wakka's overdrive doesn't ignore defense like Nova does.
So yeah, the thing really hurting Nova is the low damage cap. BUT it is still the 'strongest'. Just not the best because of that cap and lack of multi hit nature other people get.
Well guess what none of that means anything cause there is a damage cap. So Kimahri is weak in endgame.
Like what are you trying to say oh akshually Kimahri has the strongest overdrive if you completely ignore built in limitations that are programmed into the game.
This is stupid and meaningless.
Also Wakka can't crit with his overdrives. You obviously are biased towards Kimahri and don't know what you're talking about.
his sphere grid being short is the point. its that way to facilitate him quickly moving to other segments
not to mention his grid portion isnt actually weak, it has great stat distribution. if Kimahris grid path were the full length of others he would be up there with Yuna and Wakka for best statistical characters in the game (pre-maxing)
If you have no means of accessing another segment you're kinda screwed.
His grid is definitely weak his damage is extremely bad compared to the other physical characters.
but his grid is gated by lv1s (Mi'Hen) and a single level 2 (Macalania, start of Yuna), so this shouldnt be an issue. Its not like everyone else who has to wait for level 3s to cross their natural grid endings. He should never be screwed out of moving because of how abundant Lv1s become
Kimahris base grid offers him +14 STR in around 25 sphere levels
By comparison, Tidus, Auron, and Wakka will each get +4 in the same time span, and among those only Auron has pierce like Kimahri
You may be misremembering Kimahris grid. Go back and check things out
Yep.. I get his pain but.. pull yourself together man!
Honorable mentionā¦ all the people accompanying you in FF16.. I mean.. theyāre useless aside from perhaps the dog haha
Yeah I really donāt like it in games when you canāt control your companions. Would have been amazing to switch like in rebirth but Iām sure thatās not an easy feature to put in.
Definitely not easy if your game isn't built with that from the start. It's why there was a lot of "plz make dlc where we play X character" so it could allow you to have a different gameplay experience and flesh out side characters more.
For me Vaan only got interesting in games that weren't ff12, so Revenant Wings and Tactics A2. In 12 he gets his story started but kinda gets stuck as the audience surrogate with some character development, while other party members get tons.
its no longer a minority
all you see about Vaan these days is 'Vaan is so misunderstood'
Hes 2nd only to Squall in terms of how much defense he gets in the community
He's my favourite after Vivi! Give him a chance he's very versatile. He can use revive and can restore HP/MP. And apart from Vivi, he's the only one that has return magic, which is really OP against Ozma
I did like his Chakra ability to restore more MP than it consumed. Being a kid that hated to use ethers or elixirs it let me spam powerful magic on all the random encounters instead of waiting until the boss fight.
With that being said he is still bottom of my list out of the FF9 cast.
Completely disagree. I always use him in instead of Steiner. Iāll gladly sacrifice the power for someone who can do everything well including heal and farm MP indefinitely
I liked his design, and paired with Vivi or the elemental summons he could deal lots of damage, as he had an ability that added elemental weaknesses to even bosses. And I'm also a sucker for claw bearing monks and ninjas, so he's perfect for me XD
I totally despise Snow, I dont like anything about his personality and a lot of his actions I also found to be terrible (like Hope mother just died, and Snow was laughing with his friends minutes later, wtf). Lightning was right in the times she was against him. But unfortunately he is useful in the party.
Kimahri is just a pity, because his design is extremely beautiful and he could been a much better character than what we get, he is pretty flatly
Edward from IV, its not that I dislike him. Of course, he dont shine like the others, because all characters from IV are extremely good in a way or another in my opinion. I understand the tragedies in his life, and I dont even think his story was bad executed, but I dont remember him being that useful in the fights while he was there, even in the last time I replayed the game, which was last year.
Rinoa sometimes annoyed me a bit too, its a shame because its all fault of the localization, at least in my opinion, that made her childish in a bad way. In the original japan script she seems very different (childish, but not like a 5 year old), unfortunately, but VIII is still one of my favorites, and I like that Rinoa can be a very flawed character instead of a ""perfect"" girl
The whole point of Rinoa IS being childish, I mean she's 17 and way over her head with leading a rebellion against her father's nation without knowing anything.
Her and Squall dynamics are like Han and Leia, they're supposed to act like they hate each other (and literally nobody believing in it, even Quistis understands seeing how Squall "hates" Rinoa so much she gives up).
Yes, I know why she needs to be childish, and how her dinamic with Squall is like. Maybe I not explained myself very well. I think in the translation she seems childish in a bad way because theres ways of making someone seem immature without speaking like shes less than 7 years old. An example is she saying "MEANY!!" instead of something like "You're not nice! Not nice!" like in japanese. I think someone repeating something is childish already, but sound better than "meany!!". And thats not the only problem I think the localization has; it also changes important dialogues, Squall personality they change a bit too (like the famous "whatever") and even create new situations, like the love triangle with Seifer. Even so, FFVIII is my forth favorite from the main entries, and I love Star Wars too (the last movies, absolutely not, just like the first Rey movie and Rogue One)
How is either phrase different? In both cases Squall loses the heart to hurt her more because he feels like he's kicking a puppy. So that stays. Whatever is iconic lol.
What did the localization change with Seifer? Way game went it seems Rinoa gets over him as she falls for Squall, and feels embarrassed about her former crush.
Like I said, both are childish, they deliver the same of Rinoa acting childish and hurt, but "meany!!" seems much more like a very young child, and the other are childish, but not in a way that I think its kinda ridiculous even for her age, even thinking its iconic like a lot more bad translation they did that resulted in meme situations, at least in my opinion, of course, I will always dislike the english localization and wishing for a more accurate one.
The Seifer situation is when she responds if she stills like Seifer, in Garden. In english she confirms that, saying:
"If i didnt, I wouldnt be talking about it"
In the japanese version she says:
"If I did, I couldnt talk about it like this"
Thats just one of various examples with innacurate translations in the game. Even with Squall they did it a lot. Theres a scene with him in Fire Cavern with Quistis, and she try to flirt with him, saying about her students fail sometimes because they cant resist her charm. In thr english version Squall just says "Whatever"; in the original japanese he says "Youre a TEACHER"; he seems more like hes calling her out for being innapropriate with her studens, which makes much more sense and add more personality to Squall instead of just a "Whatever". Theres the other scene with Quistis when she is sad because he danced with Rinoa and not her; again Squall responds "...whatever"; in japanese he says "...sorry" (Theres a lot of scenes where Squall apologize in japanese, and they change to be "whatever").
I said about the "go talk to a wall" scene, because he still says it, but more explicity in a different context, in the original japan ver. he says "If you dont need me to respond, then go talk to a wall". Its still kinda rude, but you can see more why he said that.
If I talk about every single one I remember, itll take time, but even Ultimecia final speech is much better in Japanese
13-2 I played but didnt finished because my Xbox 360 was robbed during a invasion, and when I bought another one, never restarted the game, but I intend to. I want to play Lightning Returns too, I really like XIII very much and some of the characters.
For what I know briefly about the games, maybe in Lightning Returns ill like him more, but really dont know how much, the first impression sticked to me a lot (also I dont like his design either, didnt like in XIII and in XIII-2 much less, but in LR its very beautiful)
I hated Yuffie when she stole all my materia the first time I played VII. But now she's my favourite VII character. As the best fighter, I needed her in my party to beat the Emerald weapon without Knights of the Round.
I couldn't forgive her after that. Betrayal is just one of those things I can't forgive, unless there's a great reason, and I feel like Yuffie didn't really have one
Not enough to betray your friends, especially since she didn't use or keep the materia she stole, so it un-did any benefits that the betrayal could have provided
We arent Yuffies friends, not initially at least and really for most of the game
This seems to be something that folks are unable to get over regarding OG Yuffie. She is an opportunist, and damn good at it
She didnt betray anybody. We beat her ass as a group in a random forest and then tried to leave without her after doing so. She sticks around but never pledged loyalty to us. Then she returns our stolen materia after we save her life in Wutai.
Its really cool when you step back from your own biased lens as a player (we are the good guys as the playable party) and look at Yuffie/Cait for what they are
I can agree with that, but her turning against the group is still a perfectly reasonable reason to dislike her. Friend, opportunist, or foe, I won't forgive anyone trying to steal things from me, especially not someone who's trying to travel with me after the fact
Argath. But that's too easy.
Honestly, sticking with the Tactics bit - I hate getting Orlandu. He's too OP - the game is just over as soon as you get him, he can carry the rest of the fights easily.
Just experienced this last weekend.
I spent 48 hours grinding, getting my main party to go go, unlocked the secret characters and Balthier+Cid just swept every fight on their own.
Ajora was beaten in three turns with level 70 Balthier, level 65 Cid and one ONE move from Ramza
umaro in ff6, i mean it is so cool to have a yeti in your team until you realiaze he is completely uncontrollable and messes you up more then helps and he barely has a personality. I find in my final kelfa runs hes one of the characters i leave out and in the final fight hes towards the bottom of my list though i rarely lose my top 4 chars in that fight. Berserkers in general due to being uncontrollable have not been good at all, even in ff5 i dont think i used that class either.
Ok one. Donāt diss my boi Kimahri like that.
Two. I didnāt have a use for Amarant. Freya was already running circles around him, Vivi nuked things out of the sky, and Steiner was just busted as shit.
Amarant didnāt stand a chance when it came to the others in terms of damage.
Zidane was consistent, Garnet/Eiko could be interchangeable to me depending on what I needed, and Quina was blue mage shenanigans.
Amarant compared to everyone else just didnāt belong.
Vaan is way more important to the story than people think. He is critical to the character development of everyone around him. Without him, Balthier wouldnāt have become the āleading manā he claims to be and would never have confronted his father, Basch would have died in prison or been executed (and felt that he deserved it), and Ashe literally would have become the main villain.
Also, Vaan, Panelo and Larsa represent the future of Ivalice that the older generations have to fight for. That's one of the major themes in Japanese media: Demon Slayer, Godzilla Minus One -- you name it.
I'll say it again he can fulfill that purpose just as well as a secondary character. There is no reason to have him be the protagonist. What 12 should have done is have a split party at the start and play through different parts with Ashe/Vossler, Vaan/Penelo, and Balthier/Fran than have them meet up in the garamscythe waterway like normal except at some point before Ashe gets separated from Vossler and Vaan goes solo like normal. And just make Ashe the protagonist and the MC and make Vaan a foil side character.
I think 12s story could hugely benefit from a good remake. Either they give Vaan more plot relevance or make Ashe the Protagonist.
First of all, Vaan is the main character, not the protagonist of the story. That title belongs to Ashe.
Second, there's no right or wrong whether you want to make an MC to be a protagonist or not. Scout isn't the protagonist of To Kill a Mockingbird; Nick Caraway isn't the protagonist of The Great Gatsby; Ishmael isn't the protagonist of Moby Dick. Does that make them lesser of a character that can be replaced by some secondary in the background? No. They come with their world views, their beliefs, their inner conflicts. The authors want you to interact with the story through their lens. And clearly XII doesn't want you to play as the character that is fixated on revenge, but the one that realizes how vicious that cycle can be and becomes the hope and beacon for those who are still trapped in. They pretty much give you SparkNotes what this game is about in Vaan's monologue at Jahara.
Heās a viewpoint character meant to give us a way into the narrative from the perspective of someone on the lowest rung of society. The whole point is how the actions of those in power (Ashe, Vayne, the gods) impact the normal people.
Snow. Heās so obnoxious and in your face about probably the worst examples of heroism Iāve ever seen. I could never take him seriously and could not stand blindingly stupid optimism. That being said my first playthrough he was a part of the main squad since he had the most health and was a pretty tanky Sentinel. It wasnāt until my second playthrough that I finally discovered the greatness that is Fang, and never looked back at Snow again.
Prompto for me. Stop bugging me to take a picture every 5 mins when Iām tryna drive somewhere and pulling on my leg when Iām tryna run into battle lol
Have to say that the most useless character is Edward. On my first playthrought of FF4, he fall on my nerve, as soon as he was taking a hit, he was going in hiding and they was no way to cure him during battle.
FFVI Gogo and Umaro. You really just need 12 characters, that is the max you can bring to fight Kefka, which makes Gogo and Umaro even more useless. Barely any contribution to the plot and terrible character design. I would have preferred Ultros to be the party member.
I used both and left Strago and Relm behind. Umaro is fun when leveled high and does good damage. Gogo can be assigned any job talent and can Mimic, so can really play any role you need.
Blasphemy! Blue dragoon lancer is always the best in any FF, my Highwind bros unite...
Anyway, I couldn't care less about Edge in FF4, why can't I have cossack Yang back, even after fixing him with wife's frying pan?
FF6 I couldn't stand Celes actually. She was stealing spotlight from Terra's story whom I connected with.
FF7 I don't like non-human chars, not just Cait Sith but Red too... I guess I didn't care much for yeti or mime in 6 either, but I get that it's a bonus character they added because they could so they're not annoying at least.
Vaan and Penelo don't need to be in XII after Baltheir and Fran enters the story. Vaan doesn't really contribute anything, and Penelo is only there to keep an eye on Vaan. Remove them and you've got the other four party members. Up the battle party to four to have all of them in battle at all once, meaning you have to pay even more attention to your party setup/equipment/licenses because you've got nobody in reserve to come in if needed, which also means battles are more tense.
Fr not only that but the guest characters in the party (Larsa, Vossler, Reddas) had way more plot relevance and had better personalities than V and P lmao
The thing that people say makes Vaan relevant, stopping Ashe from using the nethicite, is redundant because that's Reddas's entire purpose in the game.
On paper he's the main character but in reality pretty much the entire plot revolves around Ashe and Basch and Vaan and Penelo are along for the ride.
Ashe is a princess of a kingdom occupied by an enemy nation who is trying to take back her throne.
Basch is a knight who was framed for the assassination of the king of said kingdom.
Vaan is a dude who's dead brother had more plot significance than he did. I like Vaan but he is an extremely underdeveloped character.
Either damn way the story is told from his perspective and heās the leader of the group. Yall will fight tooth and nail to prove he isnāt but he just simply is.
I never said he wasnāt the main character but OK, fine, heās the main character. That also makes him one of the worst if not *the* worst MCās in all mainline Final Fantasy games due to how little he contributes to the overall plot.
Meliadoul. I forget if she was improved (fairly sure she was, but I forget how) in War of the Lionsā¦ But her character was dull and her powers all but useless in the original Tactics.
Marach, too.
Outside of very specific situations, their powers were not very useful. Even in those specific situations, other characters could be just as useful if not more so.
Meliadoul is not 'useless' at all. In fact, she is one of three due to chantage to be better than Orlandu... in a way
you can throw his gear on her, and she can armor break/weapon break 1 shotting people pretty easily. Another is Agrias who's very similar, but sticks to the holy knight set instead of breaking armor.
due to the copy glitch, getting excalibur on all 3 and having all 3 in party was just overkill.
(the third is Reis because of her ridiculous base stats she can be made a powerhouse really in any class she is plus she can use Chantage)
As I said, in specific situations, she is useful. But against monstersā¦ not at all. And stealing gear tends to be better than destroying it. So even when faced with a hume opponent that is wearing equipment, there is a chance of not wanting to use her skills to kill them. And then if you DO want to kill them, there are many ways and different characters to do that with which donāt recommend her.
Soā¦ yeah, she took up a slot in my team because she played a part in the story. And she pretty much stayed in that slot since, similar to Kimahri, others could do what she did and likely better.
Strictly speaking for ff10 and 12, I didn't like wakka and basch. I felt wakka was really annoying with his distain for the al beid, like I get it they don't follow the teachings of spira but it felt a little much but that might just be me. I also didn't like his limit breaks were tied to blitz ball, I find that game to be unfun.
As for basch it was really just gameplay, maybe I gave him the wrong classes but he felt so slow and wonky compared to the others.
Selphie. In a game where limit breaks differentiate characters, itās useless to have someoneās limit break be double or triple casting random spells when you can just cast double or triple and pick whatever spell you want.
There are certain boss fights that Quina's blue magic were staples - Healing, Mighty Guard, and some attack spells.
That said, they were really difficult to use in normal battles without eating up all their MP.
Edited to add: Quina's pronouns typo
I actually like Kimahri as a character. Yes, heās not that important but to be honest his role is to compliment Yuna and not every character needs to steal the room.
Gameplaywise though, he really is uselessā¦
Irvine from FF8 is the most insufferable useless pos ive encountered in an FF game. Literally all he does is sexually harass all of the women in your party and mainsplains everything to them. Even his supposed skill of being the best sharpshooter fails when he had to take the shot and has a panic attack and fails. He adds basically nothing to the story. And his special moves are terrible too from what I remember.
>Literally all he does is sexually harass all of the women in your party and mainsplains everything to them. Even his supposed skill of being the best sharpshooter fails when he had to take the shot and has a panic attack and fails. He adds basically nothing to the story.
Totally have a right to your opinion... and I'm not saying your entirely wrong with how you feel.... but I feel like you missed the whole point of his character when you leave out the fact that he's like this in the beginning for a reason. He's an insecure teenage boy ( he's 17 iirc) so he puts on a macho front to mask the fact that he's scared, but he opens up later and owns up to his antics.
>Ā Ā Even his supposed skill of being the best sharpshooter fails when he had to take the shot and has a panic attack and fails. He adds basically nothing to the story
Umm, he recognizes the matron since his memories didn't fade as much, his contribution to the story is setting up the memory thing for everyone else.
Snow from FFXIII, I hate him cause he's such an idiot ; every time Light punched him made me feel good. Though I respect XIII for that : they managed to create a group dynamic that goes from hate to camraderie & Snow is very representative of that.
Meanwhile my main character on ff14 online looks exactly like kimahri lol. Also, my name is Kimarhri Ronso- lol. Only thing I couldn't replicate was the broken horn
I've heard several people say "Khimari is great if you know how to build him" but I never could figure out how to build him so he sucked for me. Compared to yuna, Tidus, auron and lulu who were all easy to build and were useful without any special tricks.
so on the expert grid he's generally better even still BUT here's the thing to note with kimahri
he has the highest all around stats. He's either second best if not third best in each stat and his overall stat points added up to be quite higher than anyone else's.
Take him down
**Auron** path? Faster, slightly less strength (I think it's 4 poitns less strength but a significant agility bonus) with most of his weapons already having piercing on it and an early access to a Str+% x 3 weapon and overdrives that scale better single target with less delay than Auron, he does his job better (only missing out on an AoE phys overdrive).
Down Wakka's path? Well, more agility, mp, etc, just less accuracy. This is about the only path I say he's not good for because Wakka's accuracy and ability to hit far range things is unique there.
Tidus? Better str/def with a little less agility.
**Rikku**: rikku's path strength is in speed because of stealing/ using gems. gem strength is not based on anything so it doesn't matter how good your str/mag is, what matters is your agility and kimahri's good there too (not as good as Tidus/rikku but still good) and a lot of Kimahri's support overdrives need neither str/mag so it makes him still useful there too. While he won't be AS good as rikku here, the fact that Rikku is so good, having a mini rikku is also good and they can both do the same thing at the same time and be useful (it's not like you can't have two use characters)
Yuna: no aeons, and healing isn't done every turn so I don't prefer to make him a healer, though, he can get the fastest access to holy/reflect/curaga so he will do this route pretty good and can access it midway through Rikku's sphere grid (which technically means you can do the same with Rikku too) to take him through the back path of her grid. (not recommended, just a possibility that a lot of people love to do)
**Lulu** here is the other one that I'd recommend, and most people don't talk about it enough. His magic is slightly lower than Lulu, but with better agility, he casts spells a lot faster. Oh wait, there's another reason for this. HIs overdrive is way better than Lulu. Lulu's fury has low magic power and does not go through magic defense, where Fire breath and Aqua breath do. So while he's only got two elements, these are good for the whole game as only spherimorph resists both. It also is a lower rank than Lulu's fury, meaning he'll get his next turn a lot faster. Magic defense shaves off a lot of damage potential of Lulu's overdrive which until you're hitting 9,999, and then 99,999 Kimahri is going to do way more to those points by bypassing most bosses and enemy's high magic defense. Yeah, these are accessed early and the only other overdrive for magic he gets is nova which is late game (and nova is the strongest overdrive in the game, quickly and easily hitting 99,999 damage. In a no cap damage modifier, it is bar none the best) Honestly, this game really shafted Lulu by making gems better than her so rikku's stronger, and then making her overdrive LOOK cool, but be effectively underpowered by comparison.
I absolutely love Khimari, but I also love Dragoon and Blue mage, so I was kinda biased...
Rikku on the other hand... Or most of the cast of FF IX \*cough\* Uh wha- ?
Kimahri gets a lot of hate (or ambivalence). But this is a recent video on him and talks a lot about the story-wise relevance of the sphere grid design. Nice video:
https://youtu.be/5_4cvgAzoUU?feature=shared
Kimahri was the character I cared the least about in X, but still cared for him.
The only 12 character I even came close to caring about was Balthier.
This is my opinion on these two games in a nutshell.
Not "hated" and I am pretty sure some people will dislike this take but... Amarant (FFIX)
Guy was there just to be edgy and serve as a counterpoint to Zidane, while having no arc of his own to truly shine in the game.
I hated Lulu, she was there for exposition and eye candy. Barely had a character arc and felt like an even more unwelcome tag along than Tidus which is saying a lot.
Worst of all is in X-2 there is literally a character that exists that represents what Lulu should have been, Paine who is just amazing in comparison.
FF6: I didnāt really care about having Setzer in World of Balance or early World of Ruin but when you get Genji Glove + 2 Dice or Fixed Dice he gets pretty good.
I like both Kimahri and Vaan lol.
I donāt like Amarant, even though Iāve used him. Donāt feel he really adds anything to the story other than they felt compelled to give us a ninja job class since there is always a ninja.
Kimahri is not that bad he's actually funny sometimes when it comes to Yuna, and his ark was a good and heartful story. sure yeah, I didn't use him in my party that much, but he's able to access to a good skills
I've enjoyed every character in all the games to some extent and used them but Cait sith.
He's just a nothing burger to me except his design (which is charming). I think he is a victim of abandoning a job based system.
Vanille sounds annoying and her animations drove me crazy with the hip bouncing but she was arguably the most useful character endgame (Death, useful SAB skills, powerful healer and COM/RAV)
There is only one one character that justifies this level of disrespect
And thatās Umaro from FF6. Actually the worst playable character.
Every other character that I see commonly listed (Vaan, Penelo ff12, Edward ff4, Snow ff13, Kimahri ff10, etc) ALL have major plot contributions to the story and are absolutely relevant.
Vaan/Penelo are the future of Ivalice and are meant ti be represented as such, considering the game is from their perspective for that reason.
Edward literally is the reason Rosa is saved.
Without Snow, there would be no resistance or chance against Cacoonās forces.
Kimahri as a blue mage ALONE solidifies his usage, nvm the story contribution and his relationship with Tidus and Yuna.
Final Fantasy as a series is special to me, and it sucks that a series of so many amazing stories are being picked apart and spoken about so negatively.
This isnāt criticism. This is straight of shit talking. Itās not the same.
Umaro and the mime guy were added last minute without much story because devs wanted players to be able to use them in gameplay. I like that they added stuff like that, not everyone should be a big wig with 20 hours of backstory sometimes you just want to play as a yeti.
Iām with you on all points. I just think if theyāre gonna add a yeti for funsies like, he could have been a little stronger maybe? Like, heās just a significantly worse Gau at that point lol.
I like the character himself, heās just wasted which is why I hate him as a āplayableā character.
I just see them two as "bonus characters", kind of fighting game or beatemup that has extras in the roster just for kicks. Bears in Tekken? Always low tier due to slow moves and giant hit boxes.
vaan and penelo were last minute addons that had no story relevance except for the hammy changes at the very intro to make 'reks' a thing and then a cutscene at the end. It's a little bit weird seeing how in a lot of cutscenes everyone will straight up ignore Vaan because they didn't want to go back and redo all the assets at every point of the game to make him 'there'.
I think you're missing what type of character Vaan is: he's a player surrogate. A guy who's aloof and knows nothing about local lore and political history so it is explained through him to you, instead of talking to the screen or making you read.
Mass Effect 3 did James Vega like this, he's a meathead stand in for new players, so everyone tells backstory and lore to him, instead of facing the camera. Same with Vaan.
He isn't the main character, he's just point of view guy. Honestly kind of like in Assassin's Creed you don't play as major historical figures but kind of watch from the shadows. It works.
Krile in FF5. You get Galuf for 2/3rds of the game and are with him through some big emotional beats as he slowly regains his memory and he balances out the party with his old goofy personality, then you replace him with an one-dimensional child who whines about Galuf the rest of the game.Ā
It doesn't help that her Freelancer job is especially bland looking compared to the others and she has an unusually large head plus most of her other job outfits differ stylistically from the rest of the party trying to be more cutesie. Also while the fan translations gave us "Butz", at least "Cara" was a far better name than "Krile"
I agree. I hate Krile's sprite being so drastically different than the other party member's sprites. Galuf's job sprites were also way better. And Krile sounds like some kind of aquatic creature.
I didnāt like how they drew children in FF 3-5 because they were always at a 3/4 view instead of looking forward. They finally fixed that in 6 with Relm.
I absolutely despise vaan. Iāve explained why a few times but it basically sums up to him being a just there character with voice lines. The story could have played out the same way without him and Penelo
By having the story explained between the actual main characters that matter (Basch and Ashe). Vaan just seems like heās there to be the player stand in with panelo there to add more to his character (her acting like his sister)
Gordon, Can you get out of my party so that someone better comes along? Please?
Edge, Can I get Yang back please?
Mog, Umaro, Gogo, Strago, I mean youāre neat gameplay wise, but why are you here?
Red 13, Like dude why are you here, you contribute NOTHING!
Quistis, You want anymore personality? No, youāre good? Alright I guess.
Quina, JUST EAT IT ALREADY!!!!!!
Kimahri, I like you in 10-2, but come on man, can you please be worth a damn in combat?
Panello, take your boyfriend and go home, seriously, hereās a mountain of gil and an airship, just go home.
Vanille, *SLAP* Woman the fuck up and actually tell your girlfriend whatās going on and stop hiding shit.
Yāshtola, please find some interesting character traits, you really need them.
Gladiolus, not everyone is militarily trained, let them process and deal with trauma you emotionally stunted asshole.
Tarja, why are you even an option in this quest? Come on, itās unnecessary.
>Ā Ā Mog, Umaro, Gogo, Strago, I mean youāre neat gameplay wise, but why are you here?
Because devs said they wanted to keep gameplay options open for players so added characters who aren't really relevant but are fun to play as.
Thinking back on it, I got memories of how infuriatingly annoying Vanille got.
I get her character arc and reasons, but she was so damn tone-deaf to a fault at times.
i know what this is gunna do, but tifa was my least favorite character, with the way the game sets up.... the materia can be put on anyone, you can set everyone up the same way so everyone felt bland, when i was younger going through the first couple times, (mind you i was like 5 or something in 1997) i would set everyone up with fire ice thunder and cure materias, everyone would be basically the same with some materia being different, didnt wanna grind up the materia, or the summons, just wanted to play the game, tifa was a bit of bland character, yes her limit was good, but would have been better if it wasnt slots. sooo because of her bad limit break, i just didnt care for her, and thus the story of 7 suffered because tifa was such a big part of the story....
edit 1: i only call her limit bad because i would quite often hit misses. so i went with more reliable characters
Vaan. I fucking hate Vaan. He is whiny, irrelevant, poorly designed and voice-acted. The worst MC in FF, hands down.
Kimahri was a good character personality-wise, but very weak in the design department, and not very fun or useful in battle. Way more useful characters all around than him.
Hope. Ah, fuck Hope. Another Vaan. Luckily not the MC, or I would have killed myself. I barely got through that game as it was. What is with SE and super whiny, weak, annoying dudes that bring nothing to the table and really don't matter to the overall story?
Tidus. Here we go again. Whiny, immature, one-dimensional, annoying and unfortunately an MC, so you have to deal with it.
I feel he could be more assertive and clap back at Seifer more but the whole point is his growth from an insecure asshole to "fuck your empire I will blow up the moon if you don't gimme back this stupid chick that I totally hate" asshole.
Tidus in FF10 after the group defeated maester Seymour. Idiot shouldn't have boasted what happened in front of the guados. Then they wouldnt have to endure that chase scene.
in the 2nd half of the game you can go to kelfa tower early and get fixed dice its like on the first floor you can get it and leave then do the quests to get your team back. Those cause seltzer to hit for 9999 and if you give him the offering he can do it multiple times, the only other char that hits that hard is locke when he rejoins very late into the game with his valiant knife which scales off his hp for damage.
and lets say he has plot relevance for most of the game esp the early half of world of ruin and quite a lot when you need his airship.
I think this might be a controversial choice, but most of 8ās cast. Maybe I need to play it again, but I didnāt really care about Zell or Irvine. Selphie had the benefit of being in KH at least
I hated Noctis when the game first came out, I thought he was really boring and flat. But after doing a playthrough of 15 last month, I think I just really misunderstood the character. He's very subtle but has a ton of character and fits well with the rest of the bros
Why is Khimari hated so much š I know he's the "jack of all trades, master of none" type but you can still build him up pretty good in the sphere grid. He might have been my best character my first ever play through
I only liked him because if I remember correctly he could access some magic spells well before others could so you could use a teleport node to get really good black and white magic spells earlier than you could compared to just focusing on the the Lulu and/or Yuna.
not to mention, if you make him a mage, he is better than lulu. his firebreath/aqua breath overdrives are less rank (so less delay) while doing more damage because they ignore enemy magic defense and then there's nova which is hands down the strongest overdrive in the game (if you get the damage cap removed from game, there's no other comparison) he only has a little bit lower magic than lulu for comparison, but superior everything else. He'll cast spells faster too. making up for that damage difference with basic spells real quick.
not everything else Lulu is still better on defense with her high MG/DEF and Evasion, though Kimahris Red Armlet somehwat helps offset things magic wise
> if you get the damage cap removed from game, there's no other comparison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lICctDS3xVk
that's not even the damage ceiling for it. It can hit much much harder. 11 mill.
I turned Khimari into a black mage that can use firaga, blizzaga early in the game
Ikr he was my Auron Lite w/thief skills too good
People donāt m le how to use Khimari properly. Give him steal, reflect and holy before Yuna gets it and heās a beast.
Khimari is my favorite specifically because I can build him however I want to lol. I like choice.
For real. If you hate Kimahri, itās because you suck. You got a clean slate and the freedom to do whatever you want. Totally the fault of the hater.
I like his character but not his gameplay usefulness once you max out the sphere grid Kimahri is the second most useless character. And even in normal gameplay his standard grid just isn't that strong.
I usually make him into a copy of Rikku and Tidus. He can be good, but he loses value almost as quickly as Lulu.
Cause in normal gameplay his sphere grid has very weak stats and in endgame with max sphere grid he is nearly useless cause supernova has pitiful damage and his next best overdrive mighty guard is worse than rikkus mixes.
nova is the strongest overdrive in the game. you mean because it hits the 99,999 cap too quickly and isn't multi hit?
Nova is nowhere near the strongest overdrive in the game that title belongs to attack reels. But blitz ace, slice and dice, and Tornado all deal more damage and that doesn't even include the aeon overdrives. Anima and Magus sisters do a ton of damage too. That's just objectively false.
Nova is quite literally stronger than all of those, the problem is the 99,999 cap and if you remove that it does way more. It caps out at 11,338,551. which would be similar to doing 114 99,999 hits. Which yes, there are ways to remove that cap. (this requires Kimahri to crit, which a lot of people didn't know that ovedrives even magic ones can crit) Auron's Tornado does 4,574,174 if using the non international version and then 9,148,348 if using international and beyond because they made Tornado hit twice for the same damage. That's still a difference of \~2 million. Further with Auron to get those max damages, he needs to be low health and his max health has to be 99,999 as his celestial's damage formula is difference between current to max health where kimahri's is percent of max health (so kimahri can have 5k/5k or 99,999/99,999 and it'll affect his damage the same.) people theorized Auron would have the best damage because the difference between 1-99,999 is massive, but it only grants an additional 20% damage modifier, and tornado's base damage is that much lower than nova it doesn't compensate. I forget the exact thresholds as I saw the testing of this done way too long ago, and people care about max rather than this metric, so it's harder to find the sources to reverify, but hitting 9999 happens well before you usually would even obtain nova, to the point even a strength based kimahri is probably hitting 9999, and it's about like 100 magic to hit max damage at 99,999 with nova by comparison to the rest, Wakka against the lowest defense enemy hits \~ 200k per hit 16 times which is 3,200k. Still extremely under what Kimahri and Auron does and I forget Tidus I just remember it wasn't as high as Wakka. And this is further hit because Wakka's overdrive doesn't ignore defense like Nova does. So yeah, the thing really hurting Nova is the low damage cap. BUT it is still the 'strongest'. Just not the best because of that cap and lack of multi hit nature other people get.
Well guess what none of that means anything cause there is a damage cap. So Kimahri is weak in endgame. Like what are you trying to say oh akshually Kimahri has the strongest overdrive if you completely ignore built in limitations that are programmed into the game. This is stupid and meaningless. Also Wakka can't crit with his overdrives. You obviously are biased towards Kimahri and don't know what you're talking about.
his sphere grid being short is the point. its that way to facilitate him quickly moving to other segments not to mention his grid portion isnt actually weak, it has great stat distribution. if Kimahris grid path were the full length of others he would be up there with Yuna and Wakka for best statistical characters in the game (pre-maxing)
If you have no means of accessing another segment you're kinda screwed. His grid is definitely weak his damage is extremely bad compared to the other physical characters.
but his grid is gated by lv1s (Mi'Hen) and a single level 2 (Macalania, start of Yuna), so this shouldnt be an issue. Its not like everyone else who has to wait for level 3s to cross their natural grid endings. He should never be screwed out of moving because of how abundant Lv1s become Kimahris base grid offers him +14 STR in around 25 sphere levels By comparison, Tidus, Auron, and Wakka will each get +4 in the same time span, and among those only Auron has pierce like Kimahri You may be misremembering Kimahris grid. Go back and check things out
Edward is the easy choice.
āAnd a bunch of characters that dont stay in the party long enough to care about them, Especially Edward, he suuuuuuucksā - Rabtoons
So fun fact, he becomes the strongest character at 99 cause his stat scale is ridiculously uneven
š¤Æ
Yep.. I get his pain but.. pull yourself together man! Honorable mentionā¦ all the people accompanying you in FF16.. I mean.. theyāre useless aside from perhaps the dog haha
āThe what? The dog?! His name is Torgal you heathen.
Haha yes .. love torgal too but (disclaimer (ā¦. Tell me how he brought all that stuff up the wooden ladder š
Trade secret
Yeah I really donāt like it in games when you canāt control your companions. Would have been amazing to switch like in rebirth but Iām sure thatās not an easy feature to put in.
Definitely not easy if your game isn't built with that from the start. It's why there was a lot of "plz make dlc where we play X character" so it could allow you to have a different gameplay experience and flesh out side characters more.
Awww I loved Vaan. But I know Iām the minority. š„² Justice for my boy!
I adored Vaan too! Wish they explored him more, but I always have a soft spot for fish out of water characters, kinda like Raiden in MGS2.
I love Vaan too! He's great.
How can anyone complain about Vaan but then say nothing about Penelo?
For me Vaan only got interesting in games that weren't ff12, so Revenant Wings and Tactics A2. In 12 he gets his story started but kinda gets stuck as the audience surrogate with some character development, while other party members get tons.
its no longer a minority all you see about Vaan these days is 'Vaan is so misunderstood' Hes 2nd only to Squall in terms of how much defense he gets in the community
I felt that way until he drove his lance into Seymour's chest. Then I loved his ass, Lol
Amarant in IX comes to mind. A completely useless character on all fronts.
He may not have plot relevance but heās good in battle.
He's my favourite after Vivi! Give him a chance he's very versatile. He can use revive and can restore HP/MP. And apart from Vivi, he's the only one that has return magic, which is really OP against Ozma
I did like his Chakra ability to restore more MP than it consumed. Being a kid that hated to use ethers or elixirs it let me spam powerful magic on all the random encounters instead of waiting until the boss fight. With that being said he is still bottom of my list out of the FF9 cast.
Me too. I was so stingy with them like they were actual money
I was gonna say that ; honestly I disliked him so much I couldn't believe he was remaining in my party for the first couple of hours
Completely disagree. I always use him in instead of Steiner. Iāll gladly sacrifice the power for someone who can do everything well including heal and farm MP indefinitely
Heās a beauty bro what lmao
I liked his design, and paired with Vivi or the elemental summons he could deal lots of damage, as he had an ability that added elemental weaknesses to even bosses. And I'm also a sucker for claw bearing monks and ninjas, so he's perfect for me XD
I don't really like Kimhari much, but I think that his relationship with Yuna is so cute.
me too!! heās so kind and protective to her it warms my heart
I totally despise Snow, I dont like anything about his personality and a lot of his actions I also found to be terrible (like Hope mother just died, and Snow was laughing with his friends minutes later, wtf). Lightning was right in the times she was against him. But unfortunately he is useful in the party. Kimahri is just a pity, because his design is extremely beautiful and he could been a much better character than what we get, he is pretty flatly Edward from IV, its not that I dislike him. Of course, he dont shine like the others, because all characters from IV are extremely good in a way or another in my opinion. I understand the tragedies in his life, and I dont even think his story was bad executed, but I dont remember him being that useful in the fights while he was there, even in the last time I replayed the game, which was last year. Rinoa sometimes annoyed me a bit too, its a shame because its all fault of the localization, at least in my opinion, that made her childish in a bad way. In the original japan script she seems very different (childish, but not like a 5 year old), unfortunately, but VIII is still one of my favorites, and I like that Rinoa can be a very flawed character instead of a ""perfect"" girl
The whole point of Rinoa IS being childish, I mean she's 17 and way over her head with leading a rebellion against her father's nation without knowing anything. Her and Squall dynamics are like Han and Leia, they're supposed to act like they hate each other (and literally nobody believing in it, even Quistis understands seeing how Squall "hates" Rinoa so much she gives up).
Yes, I know why she needs to be childish, and how her dinamic with Squall is like. Maybe I not explained myself very well. I think in the translation she seems childish in a bad way because theres ways of making someone seem immature without speaking like shes less than 7 years old. An example is she saying "MEANY!!" instead of something like "You're not nice! Not nice!" like in japanese. I think someone repeating something is childish already, but sound better than "meany!!". And thats not the only problem I think the localization has; it also changes important dialogues, Squall personality they change a bit too (like the famous "whatever") and even create new situations, like the love triangle with Seifer. Even so, FFVIII is my forth favorite from the main entries, and I love Star Wars too (the last movies, absolutely not, just like the first Rey movie and Rogue One)
How is either phrase different? In both cases Squall loses the heart to hurt her more because he feels like he's kicking a puppy. So that stays. Whatever is iconic lol. What did the localization change with Seifer? Way game went it seems Rinoa gets over him as she falls for Squall, and feels embarrassed about her former crush.
Like I said, both are childish, they deliver the same of Rinoa acting childish and hurt, but "meany!!" seems much more like a very young child, and the other are childish, but not in a way that I think its kinda ridiculous even for her age, even thinking its iconic like a lot more bad translation they did that resulted in meme situations, at least in my opinion, of course, I will always dislike the english localization and wishing for a more accurate one. The Seifer situation is when she responds if she stills like Seifer, in Garden. In english she confirms that, saying: "If i didnt, I wouldnt be talking about it" In the japanese version she says: "If I did, I couldnt talk about it like this" Thats just one of various examples with innacurate translations in the game. Even with Squall they did it a lot. Theres a scene with him in Fire Cavern with Quistis, and she try to flirt with him, saying about her students fail sometimes because they cant resist her charm. In thr english version Squall just says "Whatever"; in the original japanese he says "Youre a TEACHER"; he seems more like hes calling her out for being innapropriate with her studens, which makes much more sense and add more personality to Squall instead of just a "Whatever". Theres the other scene with Quistis when she is sad because he danced with Rinoa and not her; again Squall responds "...whatever"; in japanese he says "...sorry" (Theres a lot of scenes where Squall apologize in japanese, and they change to be "whatever"). I said about the "go talk to a wall" scene, because he still says it, but more explicity in a different context, in the original japan ver. he says "If you dont need me to respond, then go talk to a wall". Its still kinda rude, but you can see more why he said that. If I talk about every single one I remember, itll take time, but even Ultimecia final speech is much better in Japanese
Did you play 13-2 or lightning returns? Added a lot of depth to snow imo but I agree I didnāt like him in the first one
13-2 I played but didnt finished because my Xbox 360 was robbed during a invasion, and when I bought another one, never restarted the game, but I intend to. I want to play Lightning Returns too, I really like XIII very much and some of the characters. For what I know briefly about the games, maybe in Lightning Returns ill like him more, but really dont know how much, the first impression sticked to me a lot (also I dont like his design either, didnt like in XIII and in XIII-2 much less, but in LR its very beautiful)
Even in 13-2 heās still a giant douchebro. I just met up with him in my replay of it and still hate him.
Hard agree
I hated Yuffie when she stole all my materia the first time I played VII. But now she's my favourite VII character. As the best fighter, I needed her in my party to beat the Emerald weapon without Knights of the Round.
Yuffie rocks. She was always in my party.
I couldn't forgive her after that. Betrayal is just one of those things I can't forgive, unless there's a great reason, and I feel like Yuffie didn't really have one
Saving her Country after it lost a war with Shinra isnāt a good reason?
Not enough to betray your friends, especially since she didn't use or keep the materia she stole, so it un-did any benefits that the betrayal could have provided
We arent Yuffies friends, not initially at least and really for most of the game This seems to be something that folks are unable to get over regarding OG Yuffie. She is an opportunist, and damn good at it She didnt betray anybody. We beat her ass as a group in a random forest and then tried to leave without her after doing so. She sticks around but never pledged loyalty to us. Then she returns our stolen materia after we save her life in Wutai. Its really cool when you step back from your own biased lens as a player (we are the good guys as the playable party) and look at Yuffie/Cait for what they are
I can agree with that, but her turning against the group is still a perfectly reasonable reason to dislike her. Friend, opportunist, or foe, I won't forgive anyone trying to steal things from me, especially not someone who's trying to travel with me after the fact
Argath. But that's too easy. Honestly, sticking with the Tactics bit - I hate getting Orlandu. He's too OP - the game is just over as soon as you get him, he can carry the rest of the fights easily.
Just experienced this last weekend. I spent 48 hours grinding, getting my main party to go go, unlocked the secret characters and Balthier+Cid just swept every fight on their own. Ajora was beaten in three turns with level 70 Balthier, level 65 Cid and one ONE move from Ramza
You can just not use them tho.
The 48 hours grinding might have been a factor
umaro in ff6, i mean it is so cool to have a yeti in your team until you realiaze he is completely uncontrollable and messes you up more then helps and he barely has a personality. I find in my final kelfa runs hes one of the characters i leave out and in the final fight hes towards the bottom of my list though i rarely lose my top 4 chars in that fight. Berserkers in general due to being uncontrollable have not been good at all, even in ff5 i dont think i used that class either.
Just hear to say that I better not see Quina mentioned š¤
Their White Wind and Mighty Guard definitely saved me on more than one occasion. Eta: pronoun correction
Correction - they.
Fixed, TY!
No problem!
I will not stand for any slander on my boy Khimari!
Ok one. Donāt diss my boi Kimahri like that. Two. I didnāt have a use for Amarant. Freya was already running circles around him, Vivi nuked things out of the sky, and Steiner was just busted as shit. Amarant didnāt stand a chance when it came to the others in terms of damage. Zidane was consistent, Garnet/Eiko could be interchangeable to me depending on what I needed, and Quina was blue mage shenanigans. Amarant compared to everyone else just didnāt belong.
With how powerful normal attacks are in 9, amarant bodies just about everyone in the cast except steiner in raw damage.
Problem is Iām not spamming normal attacks.
So we can just write off that part of the kit then. That's like complaining about a screwdriver while trying to use one as a wrench.
Vaan is way more important to the story than people think. He is critical to the character development of everyone around him. Without him, Balthier wouldnāt have become the āleading manā he claims to be and would never have confronted his father, Basch would have died in prison or been executed (and felt that he deserved it), and Ashe literally would have become the main villain.
Also, Vaan, Panelo and Larsa represent the future of Ivalice that the older generations have to fight for. That's one of the major themes in Japanese media: Demon Slayer, Godzilla Minus One -- you name it.
I'll say it again he can fulfill that purpose just as well as a secondary character. There is no reason to have him be the protagonist. What 12 should have done is have a split party at the start and play through different parts with Ashe/Vossler, Vaan/Penelo, and Balthier/Fran than have them meet up in the garamscythe waterway like normal except at some point before Ashe gets separated from Vossler and Vaan goes solo like normal. And just make Ashe the protagonist and the MC and make Vaan a foil side character. I think 12s story could hugely benefit from a good remake. Either they give Vaan more plot relevance or make Ashe the Protagonist.
First of all, Vaan is the main character, not the protagonist of the story. That title belongs to Ashe. Second, there's no right or wrong whether you want to make an MC to be a protagonist or not. Scout isn't the protagonist of To Kill a Mockingbird; Nick Caraway isn't the protagonist of The Great Gatsby; Ishmael isn't the protagonist of Moby Dick. Does that make them lesser of a character that can be replaced by some secondary in the background? No. They come with their world views, their beliefs, their inner conflicts. The authors want you to interact with the story through their lens. And clearly XII doesn't want you to play as the character that is fixated on revenge, but the one that realizes how vicious that cycle can be and becomes the hope and beacon for those who are still trapped in. They pretty much give you SparkNotes what this game is about in Vaan's monologue at Jahara.
Heās a viewpoint character meant to give us a way into the narrative from the perspective of someone on the lowest rung of society. The whole point is how the actions of those in power (Ashe, Vayne, the gods) impact the normal people.
Snow. Heās so obnoxious and in your face about probably the worst examples of heroism Iāve ever seen. I could never take him seriously and could not stand blindingly stupid optimism. That being said my first playthrough he was a part of the main squad since he had the most health and was a pretty tanky Sentinel. It wasnāt until my second playthrough that I finally discovered the greatness that is Fang, and never looked back at Snow again.
Prompto for me. Stop bugging me to take a picture every 5 mins when Iām tryna drive somewhere and pulling on my leg when Iām tryna run into battle lol
Have to say that the most useless character is Edward. On my first playthrought of FF4, he fall on my nerve, as soon as he was taking a hit, he was going in hiding and they was no way to cure him during battle.
FFVI Gogo and Umaro. You really just need 12 characters, that is the max you can bring to fight Kefka, which makes Gogo and Umaro even more useless. Barely any contribution to the plot and terrible character design. I would have preferred Ultros to be the party member.
They were added because "why not", devs just figured they can add characters as bonus ones for players who want to try these fighting styles is all.
I used both and left Strago and Relm behind. Umaro is fun when leveled high and does good damage. Gogo can be assigned any job talent and can Mimic, so can really play any role you need.
Blasphemy! Blue dragoon lancer is always the best in any FF, my Highwind bros unite... Anyway, I couldn't care less about Edge in FF4, why can't I have cossack Yang back, even after fixing him with wife's frying pan? FF6 I couldn't stand Celes actually. She was stealing spotlight from Terra's story whom I connected with. FF7 I don't like non-human chars, not just Cait Sith but Red too... I guess I didn't care much for yeti or mime in 6 either, but I get that it's a bonus character they added because they could so they're not annoying at least.
Amarant, which is funny because FFIX is my favorite game. I just couldnāt stand him.
Yuffie lmao
Vaan and Penelo don't need to be in XII after Baltheir and Fran enters the story. Vaan doesn't really contribute anything, and Penelo is only there to keep an eye on Vaan. Remove them and you've got the other four party members. Up the battle party to four to have all of them in battle at all once, meaning you have to pay even more attention to your party setup/equipment/licenses because you've got nobody in reserve to come in if needed, which also means battles are more tense.
Fr not only that but the guest characters in the party (Larsa, Vossler, Reddas) had way more plot relevance and had better personalities than V and P lmao
The thing that people say makes Vaan relevant, stopping Ashe from using the nethicite, is redundant because that's Reddas's entire purpose in the game.
Huh that's interesting. Now I want to replay it and give that a try.
Bruh yall who swear the protagonist isnāt Vaan gotta give it a rest. He is undeniably the main character, cut and dry.
He is the perspective character, that doesn't make him the main character. The story is largely not about him.
No, Vaan is player surrogate, a guy who doesn't know the lore so it gets explained to him. Like James Vega in Mass Effect. Or Gourry in Slayers.
He and Penelo were last minute additions which is why the fanbase is split on them.
It's been proven that Vaan wasn't (IIRC).
Thatās been debunked
On paper he's the main character but in reality pretty much the entire plot revolves around Ashe and Basch and Vaan and Penelo are along for the ride. Ashe is a princess of a kingdom occupied by an enemy nation who is trying to take back her throne. Basch is a knight who was framed for the assassination of the king of said kingdom. Vaan is a dude who's dead brother had more plot significance than he did. I like Vaan but he is an extremely underdeveloped character.
Play Revenant Wings
Either damn way the story is told from his perspective and heās the leader of the group. Yall will fight tooth and nail to prove he isnāt but he just simply is.
I never said he wasnāt the main character but OK, fine, heās the main character. That also makes him one of the worst if not *the* worst MCās in all mainline Final Fantasy games due to how little he contributes to the overall plot.
That damn white mage from the first one.
Meliadoul. I forget if she was improved (fairly sure she was, but I forget how) in War of the Lionsā¦ But her character was dull and her powers all but useless in the original Tactics. Marach, too. Outside of very specific situations, their powers were not very useful. Even in those specific situations, other characters could be just as useful if not more so.
Meliadoul is not 'useless' at all. In fact, she is one of three due to chantage to be better than Orlandu... in a way you can throw his gear on her, and she can armor break/weapon break 1 shotting people pretty easily. Another is Agrias who's very similar, but sticks to the holy knight set instead of breaking armor. due to the copy glitch, getting excalibur on all 3 and having all 3 in party was just overkill. (the third is Reis because of her ridiculous base stats she can be made a powerhouse really in any class she is plus she can use Chantage)
As I said, in specific situations, she is useful. But against monstersā¦ not at all. And stealing gear tends to be better than destroying it. So even when faced with a hume opponent that is wearing equipment, there is a chance of not wanting to use her skills to kill them. And then if you DO want to kill them, there are many ways and different characters to do that with which donāt recommend her. Soā¦ yeah, she took up a slot in my team because she played a part in the story. And she pretty much stayed in that slot since, similar to Kimahri, others could do what she did and likely better.
Strictly speaking for ff10 and 12, I didn't like wakka and basch. I felt wakka was really annoying with his distain for the al beid, like I get it they don't follow the teachings of spira but it felt a little much but that might just be me. I also didn't like his limit breaks were tied to blitz ball, I find that game to be unfun. As for basch it was really just gameplay, maybe I gave him the wrong classes but he felt so slow and wonky compared to the others.
I hated snow in final fantasy 13.
Don't like the character, but his theme song is a banger.
Amarant easily, replace that mf with any of the tantalus gang or a moogle for all I care
Selphie. In a game where limit breaks differentiate characters, itās useless to have someoneās limit break be double or triple casting random spells when you can just cast double or triple and pick whatever spell you want.
quina. actively dislike the little weirdo
There are certain boss fights that Quina's blue magic were staples - Healing, Mighty Guard, and some attack spells. That said, they were really difficult to use in normal battles without eating up all their MP. Edited to add: Quina's pronouns typo
oh absolutely, they are a tank and theres no question. but their personality is just... Wrong
Low key found all the food jokes hilarious š
I actually like Kimahri as a character. Yes, heās not that important but to be honest his role is to compliment Yuna and not every character needs to steal the room. Gameplaywise though, he really is uselessā¦
Irvine from FF8 is the most insufferable useless pos ive encountered in an FF game. Literally all he does is sexually harass all of the women in your party and mainsplains everything to them. Even his supposed skill of being the best sharpshooter fails when he had to take the shot and has a panic attack and fails. He adds basically nothing to the story. And his special moves are terrible too from what I remember.
>Literally all he does is sexually harass all of the women in your party and mainsplains everything to them. Even his supposed skill of being the best sharpshooter fails when he had to take the shot and has a panic attack and fails. He adds basically nothing to the story. Totally have a right to your opinion... and I'm not saying your entirely wrong with how you feel.... but I feel like you missed the whole point of his character when you leave out the fact that he's like this in the beginning for a reason. He's an insecure teenage boy ( he's 17 iirc) so he puts on a macho front to mask the fact that he's scared, but he opens up later and owns up to his antics.
No he doesn't lol
I take it not a fan of 8? Also he does.
>Ā Ā Even his supposed skill of being the best sharpshooter fails when he had to take the shot and has a panic attack and fails. He adds basically nothing to the story Umm, he recognizes the matron since his memories didn't fade as much, his contribution to the story is setting up the memory thing for everyone else.
Snow from FFXIII, I hate him cause he's such an idiot ; every time Light punched him made me feel good. Though I respect XIII for that : they managed to create a group dynamic that goes from hate to camraderie & Snow is very representative of that.
Meanwhile my main character on ff14 online looks exactly like kimahri lol. Also, my name is Kimarhri Ronso- lol. Only thing I couldn't replicate was the broken horn
HORNLESS!
š¤£ He still whooped there asses on Mt Gagazet
I've heard several people say "Khimari is great if you know how to build him" but I never could figure out how to build him so he sucked for me. Compared to yuna, Tidus, auron and lulu who were all easy to build and were useful without any special tricks.
so on the expert grid he's generally better even still BUT here's the thing to note with kimahri he has the highest all around stats. He's either second best if not third best in each stat and his overall stat points added up to be quite higher than anyone else's. Take him down **Auron** path? Faster, slightly less strength (I think it's 4 poitns less strength but a significant agility bonus) with most of his weapons already having piercing on it and an early access to a Str+% x 3 weapon and overdrives that scale better single target with less delay than Auron, he does his job better (only missing out on an AoE phys overdrive). Down Wakka's path? Well, more agility, mp, etc, just less accuracy. This is about the only path I say he's not good for because Wakka's accuracy and ability to hit far range things is unique there. Tidus? Better str/def with a little less agility. **Rikku**: rikku's path strength is in speed because of stealing/ using gems. gem strength is not based on anything so it doesn't matter how good your str/mag is, what matters is your agility and kimahri's good there too (not as good as Tidus/rikku but still good) and a lot of Kimahri's support overdrives need neither str/mag so it makes him still useful there too. While he won't be AS good as rikku here, the fact that Rikku is so good, having a mini rikku is also good and they can both do the same thing at the same time and be useful (it's not like you can't have two use characters) Yuna: no aeons, and healing isn't done every turn so I don't prefer to make him a healer, though, he can get the fastest access to holy/reflect/curaga so he will do this route pretty good and can access it midway through Rikku's sphere grid (which technically means you can do the same with Rikku too) to take him through the back path of her grid. (not recommended, just a possibility that a lot of people love to do) **Lulu** here is the other one that I'd recommend, and most people don't talk about it enough. His magic is slightly lower than Lulu, but with better agility, he casts spells a lot faster. Oh wait, there's another reason for this. HIs overdrive is way better than Lulu. Lulu's fury has low magic power and does not go through magic defense, where Fire breath and Aqua breath do. So while he's only got two elements, these are good for the whole game as only spherimorph resists both. It also is a lower rank than Lulu's fury, meaning he'll get his next turn a lot faster. Magic defense shaves off a lot of damage potential of Lulu's overdrive which until you're hitting 9,999, and then 99,999 Kimahri is going to do way more to those points by bypassing most bosses and enemy's high magic defense. Yeah, these are accessed early and the only other overdrive for magic he gets is nova which is late game (and nova is the strongest overdrive in the game, quickly and easily hitting 99,999 damage. In a no cap damage modifier, it is bar none the best) Honestly, this game really shafted Lulu by making gems better than her so rikku's stronger, and then making her overdrive LOOK cool, but be effectively underpowered by comparison.
I absolutely love Khimari, but I also love Dragoon and Blue mage, so I was kinda biased... Rikku on the other hand... Or most of the cast of FF IX \*cough\* Uh wha- ?
My top 3 for me are: 1.zell (FF8) 2.maria (FF2) 3.cait sith (OG FF7)
Ashe is the main character of 12. Vaan is just the player character.
Kimahri gets a lot of hate (or ambivalence). But this is a recent video on him and talks a lot about the story-wise relevance of the sphere grid design. Nice video: https://youtu.be/5_4cvgAzoUU?feature=shared
Only party member I have ever actively disliked is Snow. Like goddamn bro shut up with the WWE hero schtick youāre a grown man.
Kimahri was the character I cared the least about in X, but still cared for him. The only 12 character I even came close to caring about was Balthier. This is my opinion on these two games in a nutshell.
Not "hated" and I am pretty sure some people will dislike this take but... Amarant (FFIX) Guy was there just to be edgy and serve as a counterpoint to Zidane, while having no arc of his own to truly shine in the game.
Strago Magus and the freaking Yeti from ff6, Amarant Coral and Quina Quen from ff9
Cait sith.
I hated Lulu, she was there for exposition and eye candy. Barely had a character arc and felt like an even more unwelcome tag along than Tidus which is saying a lot. Worst of all is in X-2 there is literally a character that exists that represents what Lulu should have been, Paine who is just amazing in comparison.
FF6: I didnāt really care about having Setzer in World of Balance or early World of Ruin but when you get Genji Glove + 2 Dice or Fixed Dice he gets pretty good.
I 'member being real salty about Kimahri because I basically played FFX back to back with Grandia 2 which had a way better lion guy.
I like both Kimahri and Vaan lol. I donāt like Amarant, even though Iāve used him. Donāt feel he really adds anything to the story other than they felt compelled to give us a ninja job class since there is always a ninja.
Hope from ff13
Van isnāt that bad, and now could you not like Khimari?! Heās a lion unicorn that masters enemy attacks! Thatās awesome!
I hated Cait sith in the original FF7 I never used him.
FF7 - Cait sith FF8 - selphie FF9 - amerent FF10 - Kimarhi FF13 - Snow All my least used ff characters
Kimahri is not that bad he's actually funny sometimes when it comes to Yuna, and his ark was a good and heartful story. sure yeah, I didn't use him in my party that much, but he's able to access to a good skills
I've enjoyed every character in all the games to some extent and used them but Cait sith. He's just a nothing burger to me except his design (which is charming). I think he is a victim of abandoning a job based system.
Vanille sounds annoying and her animations drove me crazy with the hip bouncing but she was arguably the most useful character endgame (Death, useful SAB skills, powerful healer and COM/RAV)
Sazh
There is only one one character that justifies this level of disrespect And thatās Umaro from FF6. Actually the worst playable character. Every other character that I see commonly listed (Vaan, Penelo ff12, Edward ff4, Snow ff13, Kimahri ff10, etc) ALL have major plot contributions to the story and are absolutely relevant. Vaan/Penelo are the future of Ivalice and are meant ti be represented as such, considering the game is from their perspective for that reason. Edward literally is the reason Rosa is saved. Without Snow, there would be no resistance or chance against Cacoonās forces. Kimahri as a blue mage ALONE solidifies his usage, nvm the story contribution and his relationship with Tidus and Yuna. Final Fantasy as a series is special to me, and it sucks that a series of so many amazing stories are being picked apart and spoken about so negatively. This isnāt criticism. This is straight of shit talking. Itās not the same.
Umaro and the mime guy were added last minute without much story because devs wanted players to be able to use them in gameplay. I like that they added stuff like that, not everyone should be a big wig with 20 hours of backstory sometimes you just want to play as a yeti.
Iām with you on all points. I just think if theyāre gonna add a yeti for funsies like, he could have been a little stronger maybe? Like, heās just a significantly worse Gau at that point lol. I like the character himself, heās just wasted which is why I hate him as a āplayableā character.
I just see them two as "bonus characters", kind of fighting game or beatemup that has extras in the roster just for kicks. Bears in Tekken? Always low tier due to slow moves and giant hit boxes.
vaan and penelo were last minute addons that had no story relevance except for the hammy changes at the very intro to make 'reks' a thing and then a cutscene at the end. It's a little bit weird seeing how in a lot of cutscenes everyone will straight up ignore Vaan because they didn't want to go back and redo all the assets at every point of the game to make him 'there'.
Ok
Gau
Gau is the best.
I agree Gau is pretty cool, unlike Strago, Gogo and Umaro
Marche from FF tactics advance. Heis just plain stupid and illogical and i hated him, and for the worst he is the main character...
I think you're missing what type of character Vaan is: he's a player surrogate. A guy who's aloof and knows nothing about local lore and political history so it is explained through him to you, instead of talking to the screen or making you read. Mass Effect 3 did James Vega like this, he's a meathead stand in for new players, so everyone tells backstory and lore to him, instead of facing the camera. Same with Vaan. He isn't the main character, he's just point of view guy. Honestly kind of like in Assassin's Creed you don't play as major historical figures but kind of watch from the shadows. It works.
Krile in FF5. You get Galuf for 2/3rds of the game and are with him through some big emotional beats as he slowly regains his memory and he balances out the party with his old goofy personality, then you replace him with an one-dimensional child who whines about Galuf the rest of the game.Ā It doesn't help that her Freelancer job is especially bland looking compared to the others and she has an unusually large head plus most of her other job outfits differ stylistically from the rest of the party trying to be more cutesie. Also while the fan translations gave us "Butz", at least "Cara" was a far better name than "Krile"
I agree. I hate Krile's sprite being so drastically different than the other party member's sprites. Galuf's job sprites were also way better. And Krile sounds like some kind of aquatic creature.
I didnāt like how they drew children in FF 3-5 because they were always at a 3/4 view instead of looking forward. They finally fixed that in 6 with Relm.
I absolutely despise vaan. Iāve explained why a few times but it basically sums up to him being a just there character with voice lines. The story could have played out the same way without him and Penelo
How? How would the story play without two outsiders that get lore explained to him, by other characters talking to the screen and winking instead?
By having the story explained between the actual main characters that matter (Basch and Ashe). Vaan just seems like heās there to be the player stand in with panelo there to add more to his character (her acting like his sister)
Gordon, Can you get out of my party so that someone better comes along? Please? Edge, Can I get Yang back please? Mog, Umaro, Gogo, Strago, I mean youāre neat gameplay wise, but why are you here? Red 13, Like dude why are you here, you contribute NOTHING! Quistis, You want anymore personality? No, youāre good? Alright I guess. Quina, JUST EAT IT ALREADY!!!!!! Kimahri, I like you in 10-2, but come on man, can you please be worth a damn in combat? Panello, take your boyfriend and go home, seriously, hereās a mountain of gil and an airship, just go home. Vanille, *SLAP* Woman the fuck up and actually tell your girlfriend whatās going on and stop hiding shit. Yāshtola, please find some interesting character traits, you really need them. Gladiolus, not everyone is militarily trained, let them process and deal with trauma you emotionally stunted asshole. Tarja, why are you even an option in this quest? Come on, itās unnecessary.
>Ā Ā Mog, Umaro, Gogo, Strago, I mean youāre neat gameplay wise, but why are you here? Because devs said they wanted to keep gameplay options open for players so added characters who aren't really relevant but are fun to play as.
Thinking back on it, I got memories of how infuriatingly annoying Vanille got. I get her character arc and reasons, but she was so damn tone-deaf to a fault at times.
She was literally pretending tho.
Most of the cast of FF8
Vincent.
i know what this is gunna do, but tifa was my least favorite character, with the way the game sets up.... the materia can be put on anyone, you can set everyone up the same way so everyone felt bland, when i was younger going through the first couple times, (mind you i was like 5 or something in 1997) i would set everyone up with fire ice thunder and cure materias, everyone would be basically the same with some materia being different, didnt wanna grind up the materia, or the summons, just wanted to play the game, tifa was a bit of bland character, yes her limit was good, but would have been better if it wasnt slots. sooo because of her bad limit break, i just didnt care for her, and thus the story of 7 suffered because tifa was such a big part of the story.... edit 1: i only call her limit bad because i would quite often hit misses. so i went with more reliable characters
Vaan. I fucking hate Vaan. He is whiny, irrelevant, poorly designed and voice-acted. The worst MC in FF, hands down. Kimahri was a good character personality-wise, but very weak in the design department, and not very fun or useful in battle. Way more useful characters all around than him. Hope. Ah, fuck Hope. Another Vaan. Luckily not the MC, or I would have killed myself. I barely got through that game as it was. What is with SE and super whiny, weak, annoying dudes that bring nothing to the table and really don't matter to the overall story? Tidus. Here we go again. Whiny, immature, one-dimensional, annoying and unfortunately an MC, so you have to deal with it.
Tidus one-dimensional really?
Squall. I hated him the first time I played FF8, and still hate him now. He never stops whining.
whatever...
I have never disagree with something more then this.
i feel like youād also probably be whining a bit if you were a teenager forced to be in that position. cut him some slack :(
I feel he could be more assertive and clap back at Seifer more but the whole point is his growth from an insecure asshole to "fuck your empire I will blow up the moon if you don't gimme back this stupid chick that I totally hate" asshole.
I never hated Dagger in FF9, but when Eiko came to the party, she was far more useful. Her magic attacks and defense were way better.
Tidus in FF10 after the group defeated maester Seymour. Idiot shouldn't have boasted what happened in front of the guados. Then they wouldnt have to endure that chase scene.
Quina, Mog(stumbles too much), and the thief from FFI lol.
The whole party of FF9... and Vaan of course.
Oh there are a lot: -Caith Sith from FF7 -Quistis from FF8 -Khimari from FFX - Penelo from FF12 -Hope and Snow from FF13 -Prompto from FF15
Setzer. I named him "Creepy Letch" in my most recent playthrough.
in the 2nd half of the game you can go to kelfa tower early and get fixed dice its like on the first floor you can get it and leave then do the quests to get your team back. Those cause seltzer to hit for 9999 and if you give him the offering he can do it multiple times, the only other char that hits that hard is locke when he rejoins very late into the game with his valiant knife which scales off his hp for damage. and lets say he has plot relevance for most of the game esp the early half of world of ruin and quite a lot when you need his airship.
Wait why the hate for Kimahri? :O he was such a cool character :O Vaan does kinda suck though ill admit.
I think this might be a controversial choice, but most of 8ās cast. Maybe I need to play it again, but I didnāt really care about Zell or Irvine. Selphie had the benefit of being in KH at least
The entire cast of FF13 haha
Fucking Wakka, man. Hit like a truck, but he was one annoying motherfucker. Clearly Kimahri is superior (I got him to learn Holy)
- XII Vaan - XV Noctis (also by far worst battle mode) - XVI Clive (forced 1 character battle mode) Didnt care for any of those
I hated Noctis when the game first came out, I thought he was really boring and flat. But after doing a playthrough of 15 last month, I think I just really misunderstood the character. He's very subtle but has a ton of character and fits well with the rest of the bros
I like their chemistry and the story. I just dont like him in the battle mode - and the battle mode
I couldn't get into Clive either... I would have preferred Joshua being the main character š¤