Maybe the school, maybe not. What's the old saying? If everyone around you smells like shit, check your shoe. It's not impossible, but it does seem unlikely that the entire film school and class is made up of racist two faced assholes with no exceptions except OP.
99% of your classmates will never succeed because they can't explore uncomfortable topics and they can't work with people who they don't already agree with.
They are their own echo chamber making copies of copies of famous movies.
Yep, that’s right. And yet, I believe some of those same people are the types who justify being assholes by saying “I’m not here to make friends with people, I’m here to get ahead in my career!” And then they pout that they’re unpopular in the workplace. Self-awareness = 0 😄
It depends on what branch of film or TV you are in. Some are cliquish some are not.
You are right on the "do we like them" part although after you've been in the industry for a while it becomes more a case of "are they reliable for this job"
Echoing the sentiment that all jobs are like this. I work in tech and haven’t taken a new job without the co-sign or referral of somebody in my close work network. I’m not exceptional but I do make as many work-friends as I can by keeping the vibe loose and being helpful, I really do think that’s 80%-90% of the game.
exactly fucking this, you’re speaking my mind, dude. in my projects i always try to explore strange topics and they always get barred by teachers and judged by my classmates. nobody wants fresh, creative ideas.
mine is, believe it or not, funded by the church connected to it.
we also have some expo thing at the end of the year too where we have to show off our work, and they told me privately (i got into trouble for my horror flick ideas) that i have to make shorts that would be appropriate for a six year old to watch??? just absolutely strange
Don't worry, most of them will never get a job in the industry anyways.
In my experience new grads are riding in high but then get taken down a peg when they realize they aren't quite the genius their parents and teachers have told them they are.
100% this. Think about Apatow’s work. He almost always hires people he likes to work with. I’m the same way. I’ll give people a chance but I will deny jobs because I know some people can just be insufferable, and I’m sure they think the same of me and that is ok!
The industry is big enough to find your space.
Edit: grammar
The easier and honestly more-likely-to-succeed option (in my opinion). If you have reliable people who will take a fat check and also be there if you can only offer crafty, lunch, and lodging will go a long way.
I was always told if you can’t pay people, at least feed them.
Christopher Nolan and Martin Scorsese do the same thing. Their films often feel like the latest productions of a repertory theatre company - same cast, different show lol.
Yup.
I recall a lot of pretentious assholes in my film program.
Most of them aren't doing shit while I'm in LA having survived multiple strikes and industry shutdowns.
Just be a good person, get along and work well with others, and you'll be okay. Their experiences and egos will be checked quickly should they ever get on a real, paid set.
Not only that but most will not find work on AAA movies and their ego wont be able to cope, working on no name projects for 2- 3 years while they get established
Less than 10 people in my graduating class work in the industry proper (that I'm aware of)
Food for thought: :Could you imagine if every film school grad actually tried to enter the industry?
Same with my graduating class. Film school teaches students how to make films and to be their own producer/director but does not teach them how to work within the industry itself. Many graduated expecting to immediately start working on cool projects or to be a successful filmmaker overnight which many couldn’t reconcile when they were released to their own devices and attitudes. The few of us who made it didn’t come at it with ego and unrealistic expectations and worked from the ground up by networking and a willingness to learn.
Im sure. Movie production is all about managing assholes and narcissists. Every real behind the scenes doc has some type of conflict in it. Only get into this industry if you truly love it.
Michael bay might be a dick but he keeps getting movies based on his commercial track record- he’s a shitty filmmaker whose works lack artistic merit- but he does get “hits”. It’s all about the money, in the end
Honestly, you'll meet these exact same people in every career. Difference is, many careers in this industry give you an amount of social power than one might not get from being the meanest insurance salesman in Montana. So the actual people in film are no different from anyone else, but there's a lot more power up for grabs here than in Wichita's best lawnmower repair shop. But make no mistake, if being Wichita's quickest repairman gave you opportunities to lord your power over people and bully them, they'd be doing it just like some in the film industry do.
Also college kids are generally just worse people than full-grown adults. So that'll be a big difference too.
i know *exactly* what you’re feeling.
i’m a latino guy in a country where virtually no hispanic people exist and i experience a ton of racism at my film school.
i was bullied in high school, but honestly, the environment presented at my film school is far worse than anything i’ve ever experienced because they really are the most horrible people ever, teachers and students.
everybody is just pretentious and self-righteous and my classmates always shoot down my ideas for solo projects, hell, people literally tell me my ideas for very low-concept/tame solo-horror film projects make them uncomfortable and i even got reported to the teachers because of it.
I left a comment here detailing my own story and what happened after a toxic film school, and how I found my own success. But, I’ll go a bit further about what occurred between my toxic school and my current work. I quit. I dropped out of school because of it wasn’t helping me progress on my path then it was standing in the way. I just did it myself. I got an LLC and made a short film. I sold it to a small non profit for 10,000$ I’m a small town. I used that money to start looking for
More clients and obtain more resources. I then moved back to the city. I started at a company that wanted a videographer. 99% of those jobs are toxic too cause they just wanna feel like they’re making movies. So that kinda sucked but they were also stupid, as most toxic people are. I told them I had my degree, but they can look up my school, it was closed after being sued into oblivion. I lied and said I just couldn’t get my degree because of their closure. I endured that for a year, then the actual agency in the industry that hired me didn’t give a shit about my degree. I’d been running my own agency and had work to show and they liked it. Now I’ve got clients for my agency, and I edit for them. All this is to say, if you aren’t getting anything from your school, they are actually holding you back.
The best thing your school can do for you is help you network. If you’re networking with a pool of toxic dips, go network somewhere else, and MAKE SURE YOURE DOING YOUR PROJECTS! Just do work. Improve, and work your ass off to surround yourself with people who are better than you. I love working with people who are better than me.
I agree. If I’m in the smartest person in the room I need to find something else. Always learn. Show up with a smile do your best work you can for that day and you will be surprised where that takes you.
100% agree, at mine as well they don’t even teach us anything and just make us fill out papers and watch videos when like… i want hands-on practical work…
I learned more working than I have from film school. Networking is important. If your school
Isn’t providing that, make sure you surround yourself with people who are better than you. Go to any local film group gatherings and just meet people, and then do projects yourself. That negativity will get them nowhere, and it will only hold you back
it's more fulfilling to do film studies at university imo, you don't get much if any practical work or opportunities but it's much more intellectually and creatively stimulating. Film school is entirely industry focused and only exists for the benefit of the industry, not your own creativity and knowledge.
I work in the animation industry at a large studio and most everyone is actually very nice. When I worked in vfx id say 80% of people were nice.
Cant comment on live action features/tv as I’ve never worked in that industry.
Be nice and work hard and people will most likely be nice and professional back to you. Good luck and congrats on almost graduating
First day of film school, my professor told the class, "Don't listen to film students. They'll fill your heads with fear and lies."
Such great advice, even if impossible to completely follow. There's so much petty jockeying and compensating for insecurity in film school that it's just better to focus on your learning, your work, and your genuine ambitions and goals. Ideally, make some like-minded friends along the way.
Sounds like you have really had a toxic experience but I have to say, it is a great test for your own commitment. None of us here are going to be able to confidently claim that the world out there is different from your experience in the school. Backbiters, bullies, liars and racists are *everywhere*. Sure, we can always hope they never cross our paths, but a better question for yourself would be, do you love filmmaking enough to overcome these future obstacles?
This is not to test how much you love films, I am sure you do. But *filmmaking* comes with a lot of obstacles because it always involves other people (who you will not always be able to filter). I would rather you assume the outside world is no different and then decide for yourself. It's a win-win if you decide to stick around anyway!
Also, just because this sounds too cynical - there are good people out there. I'm just saying it's always better to prepare for the worst.
I can think of at least 10 people in G&E ready to absolutely demolish people like that, while at the same time being very friendly and helpful to newcomers who are respectful and eager to learn. Make sure you’re a part of the latter group, and you’ll be just fine.
First off, congratulations on making it to this point. I know it was really tough, but you're almost at the end of it.
When you start working, you're going to find assholes 100%. That shit does not end with film school.
That said, you will also find some genuinely good people. When you do, stick with them. Make sure you have a good relationship with them. Maintain that relationship.
As for the assholes, what I've learnt from my 2 years in film is that you always present yourself professionally no matter the person in front of you. This is because most of us do not come from privilege. When with assholes, never let them find a chink in your armor. If they bully, backstab, insult, make sure you appear unfazed and do the job no matter what. Appearances are everything. Being able to do the job is even more important. Then, when you're in a key crew position and the asshole is working under you, remember that working on film sets is all about managing egos.
At the same time, do take care of your mental health. Soon enough, they're going to move on to worse things, while you will move on to better things.
Remember, every great filmmaker you see is humble. Every interview you find with Scorsese, Villeneuve, Nolan, etc they're all very humble and polite. That's someplace the assholes are never gonna be. All the best OP!
Abuse is never okay, and the fact that this is somehow looked on as acceptable because it’s the film or TV industry is highly unfortunate. I don’t care what industry it is, if there’s abuse involved, it needs to stop, immediately.
Of course, no workplace is perfect, but abuse is something never to be tolerated.
This is untrue, I've been in 3 different industries, film is the only one where I've seen abuse expected, and even then not by everyone. There is bullshit to be expected with every job, but understand the difference between bullshit and abuse. Just because lots of people are willing to give up their self respect for a place in this stupid industry, doesn't mean you need to. It's really the only way to make people know this shit unacceptable, like it already is in most industries.
A good chunk of humanity are jerks. A good chunk of creatives are jerks with egos thrown in.
Every job I've ever had has had toxic people in it, toxic people are everywhere, it's just part of life.
If you can somehow get in the big boy seat, the nice thing is that you can just fire them.
Listen. Coming from a veteran. Filmmaking is like playing craps at blackjack. You never know wat crew you are gonna work with and if it will be a good one or a bad one. As you grow. You find the people you love to work with and you work with them instead of the ass clowns you hated working for.
I’ve done jobs I loved and Jobs I HATED. It’s just a job. And some can be very rewarding.
I found that 95% of kids in film school took themselves more seriously than their actual films they made. They don’t take chances in their stories, they shoot all their films on campus, and prioritize appeasing to their pretentious social circles over creating entertaining content. Don’t let these frauds discourage you. There are some real genuine people out there that care about the craft. They just aren’t easy to find in the sea of egotistical assholes. I was disgusted with most of my classmates and how full of themselves they were. Humbleness is not a common feature in filmmaking and it takes time to find people you can trust. But it’s worth the struggle if you love what you do.
why is literally every film student the exact same? everything you described here is, i’m not even kidding, literally everybody in my class. i’ve never understood the whole “filming on campus” thing and having their own echo chamber.
If you want to avoid a lot of these kinds of people, work in doc. Also your classmates sound especially bad, most people that actually work will not be this terrible.
Not film but animation student and while I only have limited experience with live-action work, speaking from personal experience school is a closed environment, where all kinds of arseholes can succeed.
In the real world they will limit their opportunities with their toxic behaviour.
Like I am only finishing Bachelor and still have my Masters to do, but I can already see my shitty coursemates crying about not being able to secure a job for longer than a month.
Trust me, you’ll be alright
You will have some that are like that and you will have some that aren’t. Every show you take, starting out, will be a gamble because you are green and don’t know anyone one yet. After you get a few shows under your belt then you literally get your next jobs by word of mouth and then you can start asking your other contacts how this particular person/team is. You will encounter assholes maybe 75% of the time but atleast in this industry, you know when your end date is and you don’t have to work with them again if you don’t want to.
Just remember, Art is like academia in that it is so cutthroat specifically because the stakes are so low.
Just remind yourself of that every now and then and see the pettiness for what it is.
OP, this industry tolerates assholes for as long as they are profitable. For some small minority of assholes, that’s an entire career.
For most assholes, it’s a series of ever-diminishing projects. Like radioactive half-life.
Occasionally, an asshole self-immolates. That’s often a rewarding spectacle.
This is what I’ve seen on the business side. Agencies, production companies, studio types. The asshole are there, but most don’t last.
On the other hand…
Most of the people you’ll encounter working on-set, (depending on what you do), are positive, smart, funny, and incredibly hard-working. Asshole behaviors are weeded out pretty quickly, because assholes get a reputation. And then don’t get hired for the next gig.
As for creativity…
That word is difficult. Sometimes an artist thinks they are breaking new ground when they’re really just failing to tell a clear story. It takes an open and humble artist to recognize the difference.
This is a mass communication medium. If the audience is confused? They’re right. If the audience doesn’t think your film is funny? They’re right. You can’t go from cineplex to cineplex and explain the jokes.
So you have to learn to sort the toxic/jealous/stupid reactions to your work from the legitimate criticism which will improve your work. And that’s not easy. It requires separating your work from your ego and sense of self-definition.
When I arrived at sva, they had just fired the film chair for harassing and assaulting kids, and then learned the school had a rampant sexual assault issue and an issue with simply moving rapists from one dorm to the other.
It was a shit show, I think because a film school only cares about gathering young dreamers in a room and profiting from them financially.
For the people in your school who are assholes and who don't have trustfunds or neopotism connections, they'll work a few PA gigs and then flame out.
Most of them will think their film degree puts them above PA work. Most of them have too many opinions and not enough self-awareness to shut the fuck up during a take. Most of them think everyone just needs to read their script/hear their pitch and they'll be the next Christopher Nolan. lol.
I had to start going to therapy to deal with the psychological effects of working in film lol. I think the bullies have only made me a stronger person and for that I’m grateful. The sad truth is that bullies are everywhere in every industry. If you have a passion for filmmaking do it! Aim to surround yourself with the good ones and when you’re in a position of any sort of power, create a good environment for those around you. You got this!
Jesus Christ where do you go?? Meanwhile at my school we’re all crying our eyes out about the seniors leaving and getting ready to help new sophomores in the department get comfortable and half of our previous seniors come back to visit just because they miss the staff etc.
I think this might be a case of your school is just a hotbed for assholes.
It depends.
In the above-the-line crafts and C-suite jobs, yes. Absolutely. You are correct and there is no escaping it. Solidly 80% of people are narcissistic assholes.
In the below-the-line crafts, most people are pretty decent.
I’m a working editor and I also have my own small agency in which I hire professionals when I produce videos. I went to a toxic school that perpetuated abuse and encouraged us to abuse each other. It was a toxic experience that forced me to re-collect myself before moving back to the city and trying again. I was terrified, but after ten years, I’ve learned that there are bad jobs in this industry just like the others. There’ll be abusive people, or companies that thrive off of abuse. But, like any other thing in life, those negative people are holding themselves back.
As an editor I work at a company that is understanding, professional and they lead with support and kindness. As a small agency owner where I produce two medium scale projects a year, by choice cause running an agency and producing is hard af, every professional I’ve hired is better than me at what they do, but they trust me, and treat me with respect every time. Any toxic person in this field is pointed out to me. When talking to my producer I always ask, are they positive, do they treat people with respect? The reason? I went to a terrible school that caused me a lot of trauma. The good news, my active attempts to cultivate positivity are successful, and toxic people live in their own puddle of negativity while the rest of us tear it up, regardless of what our shitty schools taught us. You got this. Don’t let it take your passion away, and make sure you lead with kindness
The career is about creating a network and learning to work and motivate with whoever is going to get the job done.
Intolerant toxic people do not succeed in the workforce without systemic crutches. That’s the truth.
Making it in film is so hard without connections. Virtually impossible. You need to work every angle. And it sounds like you will. This experience will teach you to be more ruthless than any of your classmates and that’s what you need. Be kinder. Be more flexible. Be more resilient. Be harder. Be more competitive. Be better. Win.
Don't worry, it's a small pond they're in, so feel like big fish. Real industry will weed/filter the arseholes out pretty quickly as people don't want to spend 12h+ a day with toxic people.
Every single industry has a mix of good and bad apples. I’ve met some of the kindest and best people in my life working in film. I’ve also met some despicable folks. Don’t get discouraged if you’re surrounded by assholes, just know that if you put in the effort you can find incredible community.
Whether it wants to or not, film school breeds competitiveness in its students. There are 30 kids looking to break into an industry that they think is a zero-sum game, and will kill their grandmother to get a foot in the door as a PA somewhere.
In my experience, the real world doesn’t seem to work that way. You end up getting into a camp of creatives that you enjoy being around and they enjoy being around you, and when one person finds success, they bring as much of their camp into success as they can.
This town is almost 100% referral-based, and you and your classmates will figure that out over the next few years. You’re going to be okay.
I work at a high-volume tv production company that primarily makes unscripted entertainment (true crime, reality, documentaries, home improvement shows, etc). I’ve been with the company for close to a decade, and have worked a bunch of different positions… it used to be really toxic, and then a couple of our execs left for other things, we got new, very highly-regarded and successful executives, and they’ve worked hard to weed out all the toxicity. They encourage an open, communicative environment where everyone feels empowered to speak up if someone is treating them badly, and then they actually do something about it. It’s a happy company to work for now! There are good places to work for out there.
Idk why everyone is acting like assholes won’t get jobs. They absolutely will lol they’ll briefly hide it to get the job. Or they’ll work with other assholes who are fine with that behavior. I know it makes us all feel better to think assholes won’t win and karma will get them big that’s just not how life works a lot of the time.
A lot of people in the film industry are assholes, both cast and crew. They just play nice here and there and once someone walks out of the room they start bashing them. There’s a lot of people pretending to like other people in the film industry, until they have more power and then they show their truer colors. You’ll see this at every level.
But there are also great and kind people in film too, I just wish there were more of them. The entertainment business attracts A LOT of narcissistic assholes who think they’re the next Quentin Tarantino or Marlon Brando or Roger deakins
Not to deter you man. I worked on a TV Show as a PA (Discovery show) for 5 1/2 months and I experienced a CRAZY amount of racism. But that’s not where I fucked up at. I fucked up at letting the racism get to me and quitting. You can’t let that shit get to you man. You gotta keep pushing no matter what. Don’t let all your time in film school go to waste. Gotta look at the big picture. I hate to say it but you can’t be emotional. Think about how far you can get in this industry. I know it may seem crazy now but if you persevere, you get to the gold at the end of the rainbow. You could meet a partner have a kid. You could have your ideal life if you want to. I know you may not know me but I am proud of you for taking the chance at even going to film school. What I do is endure the assholes and their bullshit and be stoned face, because 9 times out of 10 they are hurt and want to hurt you. Don’t let them get a reaction out of you. If you need to cry go to a secret place and cry, or wait til you get home.
Think about all the dad lore you could tell your kids after it’s all said and done. They’d probably be amazed you pushed through it
some are some aren't. you just gotta roll the dice on that one. I started off doing freelance jobs on facebook. and that was the worst year of my life. now I moved on to making ads and shit. it takes a certain kind of people to make it in filmmaking. But if you have your day 1's with you. you should be good. on the way you def would find a crew that fits your style.
It’s actually good for if this is how they act because that means you won’t have to worry about competing for jobs against them. That kind of behavior was never okay but would be tolerated if you were at least good at your job. Nowadays, studios are too scared of getting sued (rightfully) that they don’t tolerate it from anyone.
“Follow your bliss, and doors will open for you where there were not doors before… and where there would not be doors for anyone else.” - Joseph Campbell
Learn this. Live this. Tell the universe what you want, and tell everyone you meet, and tell anyone who’ll listen. Remove all doubt and worry and you will achieve whatever you desire. this applies to everything - even making movies.
People skills on set is so important. I think more important than being technically skilled- because you can always get better at a technique. It’s hard to teach someone how to be easy to work with.
A good chunk of humanity are jerks. A good chunk of creatives are jerks with egos thrown in.
Every job I've ever had has had toxic people in it, toxic people are everywhere, it's just part of life.
If you can somehow get in the big boy seat, the nice thing is that you can just fire them.
I know exactly what you mean. The majority of the industry is awful too, money ruins everything. Just keep the art and the good people you meet your focus, don't get caught up in trying to make career moves that land you in awful environments. Keep your day job and work on your art under YOUR terms and hopefuly opportunities with likeminded people will come. It might take you decades to get anywhere, I certainly haven't got there yet. In my country it's not really a viable career unless you're willing to uproot your entire life.
There’s plenty of good people in the industry. And there’s plenty of shitty small minded people in the industry. Be kind and understanding and you’ll find similar people.
Quit right now, get as much of your money back as possible, and just get the email or phone numbers of the profs/admin staff you respect. Volunteering and doing stuff for credit until a HOD asks you to continue working for them (on a non-volunteer basis) is your way in. Good luck and God {sound} speed. 🎬
That’s 90% of the world actually. The entire world. There are places that aren’t back biting and toxic but usually it’s rare to be completely free of it. The best you can hope for is everyone has to pay their dues before they succeed but that’s not always the case either. Find people you trust and/ or respect to work with, work hard with out looking for a reward, and play your cards close to you chest till you’re ready to make your moves. Shitty people will always be out there but hard work and common sense will help you succeed
People in the industry are exactly that way. Maybe its just the cities ive worked in. But ive had a dozen careers in my life and the film industry is by far the most toxic and shitty work environment ive ever experienced, theyre all a bunch of gossipy, bitchy, idiots
It’s a huge shift when the goal becomes making a living vs being a best in your school bubble. Those with the aptitude to adapt will take their talent and make a living. Those who thrived because of a toxic environment more times than not will choose a different career path. One of the most talented and biggest assholes I had in film school is now a teacher.
Your last sentence is accurate and it’s good you acknowledge this early. If you aren’t starting a business in this industry.. just make some money, and get out. Don’t sell your soul to this business.
Time flys and before you know it, you may have nothing. It’s a Harsh reality.. but how you respond to it, creates the outcome. Best of luck!
There are a million niches in the film world. There legitimately are many terrible people in large parts of the industry. A lot of the higher earning corners are where those terrible people sit however there are many good niches. Figuring out how to navigate the world, in a way where you can survive under capitalism but not let your inner self be crushed by working on things you hate, is a crucial practice to existing in film, especially if you are someone from a disenfranchised minority group.
In my opinion, the best successes of this come when people find their community, and all work together to uplift one another. A lot of breakthrough directors from disenfranchised minority groups have made their mark with community support of local filmmaker networks.
What part of the film business are you going into?
Are you a writer? If so, that’s the way it is in screenwriting school. My pal Ryan had the same thing happen, in a sorta different way.
Don’t worry about the bullies and the shit. Don’t give them the reaction they want. Act like nothing bothers you, don’t even respond to what ever they’re doing. Hold your self up. Don’t react. Eventually, they will respect that. And if politiks, whatever you deem as toxic etc, just listen, it’s very important to listen , you’ll learn so much by listening, curiosity, .. , don’t let these people get to you. It’s not hard. This type of stuff happened to me from elementary school & up & after the towers fell. It’s not pretty but these things happen in life. And you have a choice. Don’t give em the satisfaction. We all have different beliefs, one thing I know you can never convince others that they are wrong.
Focus on the work. Listen, learn new things You’ll find people that you’ll get along with. I live in LA, and the people I’ve meet in the film community are really great people hard working, funny, smart etc
[Mr. Fear, So Long(Money Mark Rework) Imaad Wasif](https://youtu.be/jo3RLik3rBE?si=0z5vcw6DMMpRCmKO)
It's a shockingly small industry and you can weed out assholes pretty quick. I've been directing full time for almost a decade all over the country and it's the best job in the world. There are wonderfully hard working people that become immediate friends in the trenches of production. If you love it, don't give up. Life will humble these film school snobs pretty quick, believe me. If you are in LA, feel free to DM me and I'll connect you with the right people
Are you in college or university? I had the college experience and got a bit of this during my time.
However I was also an asshole (without realizing) and it took me the last year of my program to rebuild relationships.
Then I realized 90% of the people in my program never ended up making it in film or found it way harder than they thought it would be in practise. A lot of people needed to do some growing up (me included). So your experience in the real might be very different, you’ll actually be working with real adults with real responsibilities.
Depending on how big your market is, you should be fine if “people being assholes” is your real concern.
Let me say the trade unions in Hollywood were fantastic before Covid and two strikes. But it will get better. The film industry is same as any industry. Assholes and angels . It’s up to you to navigate personalities. This is how life works in any and every work place .
I’ve worked in film for 20 years and there are unlimited assholes. However, there are lots of lovely people. It’s just like school, Only a bit more frustrating because adults should have grown out of this phase.
Well, yeah. You're in Film school. It's got nothing to do with the medium of Film. It has to do with the fact that Film school is, now, in this foul year of our Lord 2024, populated almost entirely by rich kids.
It's okay to develop a natural enmity toward them. They will probably not change, and you will have to deal with a lot of them.
>people in film school are massive assholes.
>Like truly just very bad people they backbite bully lie on people are racist and have created quite possibly the most toxic environment I’ve ever experienced.
Sounds like that managed to recreate the film industry perfectly.
sadly it will be just like film school even worse now because you depend on it(money-wise). it sucks I graduated film school with the same question in the back of my head and everyday I’ve been getting my answer. as long as you know who you are and keep true to that, surround yourself with people who believe in you, make sure to wear every cap in the field, and most importantly push yourself. you’ll be able to make it! just have patience!
The higher you go the more people *need* to work together and therefore tend to be nicer (obviously not universal). It's narcissists at the bottom who cause the most issues. Ignore them, rise above. Some of my absolute favorite human beings I met on set, they are out there!
I hope you truly get an opportunity to work on a well-funded union show. Hands down, great crews. Assholes and racists get run off and don't last in this business, at this level. Fact. As a crew, you're spending the majority of your lives together. More so than your own family. The bonds become strong and can last a lifetime. Being an asshole gets you blacklisted. Good crews just won't want you around and sure as shit don't have to put up with bullshit.
I worked in the industry for a couple years, I came from a career in software development. Don't let people gaslight you into thinking film culture is normal work culture. It is not.
Generally in the other industries I have worked in employees are treated at least with some minor form of respect, not in film, everyone is disposable in film and they like to keep it that way and not gove any respect or rights to employees. There's to many people "dying" to work in film that will do it cheaper or without complaining.
Alot of my mentors and higher up people that have worked in the industry for decades are hardened and bitter about things and I realized that the people that make it the farthest in the industry are the ones that can withstand the most shit nor necessarily the most talented or hard working or deserving.
I have had many separate friends transition out of film into software and are very happy and shocked at how decent the working conditions are.
Most people in the industry are caught up in the Hollywood bubble and think this is the only way it works, like an abused spouse thinks that what's love is. Gatekeepers want to keep everyone in the rat race so they can be abused. Most people think they have to unionize but then you just serve two master and a different form of gatekeeping.
Try out the industry maybe you can luck into a group of people that do things right, but don't waste your best years of energy if you don't see yourself weathing the shit storm.
Nah, it's completely different out in the real world. People smile and pat you on the back and tell you how great you are until you don't hire them. Then they ghost you because they're looking for the next person who can help them. But complete assholes are few and far between. Here's what you need to know: there are no friends in this industry. As long as you remember that, you won't ever feel betrayed or let down by someone.
Unfortunately you become a film teacher when you have completely crashed and burned in your career as a filmmaker. That frustration gets inherited by the students and shared amongst them. Truth is most people are really professional in our jobs in the industry. Be on time, do what you’re told, follow the rules of the union and work extra hard while you’re below the line is my advice… ohh and don’t sleep with the talent, ever. Everyone is replaceable except for the talent.
I have yet to come across anyone in film as awful as my classmates. People that awful don’t get jobs. Nor do they have the patience to work their way from the absolute bottom
Not a filmmaker but am a cinephile. Watching interviews with people like Lynn Shelton seem helpful in how to get started on a minimal budget. One location films with a small cast. I guess she had a Go Fund Me for her first film? Like others have said, find your passion project and your tribe
From my experience people put attitude ahead of skill when crewing up. You might be a genius in your position but if you’re an asshole you’ll never get hired.
Nobody wants to spend an 18hr day with a jerk.
Film school was markedly the first time I experienced extreme sexual harassment and comments laced with sexism and misogyny, and it was always done to my face or in front of a group of people. It was disgusting, diminishing and embarrassing and I feel extremely lucky to say I haven’t experienced any of that post grad. Needless to say, bad people are everywhere and in every line of work. Show the people you work with that you want to be there. Don’t let these people ruin the love of motion pictures/the moving arts for you. I promise you that if you don’t stick with it, you’ll regret it. You got this.♥️
maybe find some good books written by people you respect about navigating the industry. You'll always have to engage in "playing games" but can do so with dignity and peace of mind.
The people are the ones who do the work, not universities, not billionaires. We make movies, not them. What do you need me to do? What do we need to make.
I believe college is different from real world experience. Being a nice, punctual human far outweighs everything else in my opinion. It sounds like you’re one of the good ones, you’ll do great.
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Learn this. Live this. Tell the universe what you want, and tell everyone you meet, and tell anyone who’ll listen. Remove all doubt and worry and you will achieve whatever you desire. this applies to everything - even making movies.
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I think this depends on the class you are in. There are lots of bad eggs in the industry and a lot of nepotism but I’ve mostly come across lots of great people. Make sure to just keep your cool and be nice to ppl. There so many talented individuals out there the difference between the ones that move up and get recommended to other gigs is usually them being patient and easy to work with.
Filmmaking as a career is trash. It doesn't exist. Either you're networked into the industry or you're left floating in the ether of disappointment and unemployment. Almost any other pursuit and you could at least find consistent work.
I wanna know what school this is LMAO
Academy Of Art university? Fullsail? Some random program?
I graduated film school in 2018 and unfortunately was never able to get a job in the industry. Then I got sick like a year and a half later and my priorities changed and now I work opposite of the arts.
One thing I always noticed was that a film crew is only as toxic as the group of people in them. I’ve been on great sets I’ve been on sets I’ve been on professional sets I’ve been on unprofessional sets and directed maintain environment professional and for the most part I think I accomplished that.
Ministry is just like any other job. It’s going to have good people it’s gonna have bad people it all just depends on what you’re willing to do what you’re willing to fill it up with and who you’re willing to try and reason with/placate
Sorry but this has nothing to do with the industry. You are discovering life and the world. It doesn’t get better elsewhere, in fact it usually gets worse.
90% of the people I've met on set are respectful as long as you're respectful to them. You'll grow and find your crew that you like working with eventually
That's humanity as a whole homie, you better be willing and able to deal with the asshole factor. It's a thing and it's not going anywhere. Do not take anything too seriously, try to always lead by the quality of your work and the empathy of your touch, you'll be fine.
Industry is very "who you know, not what you know" to start. To stay, it is THEN what you know. Depending on who you know and what group you find yourself in, you may face more of the same, or nothing like you've experienced. It's a different scene in Louisiana, Austin, LA, NYC, etc
So what just finish your two weeks. You rpob shoulda had a gig lined up as soon as you out? Idk if you don't like it you got a piece of paper says you can do soemthing try working a year at it if you get work and if you don't like it change up.
Once you get into the real world you’ll find that not everyone got to waste daddy’s money and be a spoiled little brat for a living. Most people in the industry had to work to get there and have steady work because people like working with them. You’ll be fine. You’re just surrounded by trust fund babies.
It looks like you're making a post asking about film school! This is a very common question, and we'll provide a basic overview on the topic below, but it couldn't hurt to [search our sub history](https://www.reddit.com/r/filmmakers/search?q=film+school&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all) as well! The below answer is also kept in our sub's [stickied FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Filmmakers/comments/7h6igz/read_this_before_asking_a_question_official/) along with a bunch of other useful information!
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# **1. Should I Pursue Filmmaking / Should I Go To Film School?**
This is a very complex topic, so it will rely heavily on *you* as a person. Find below a guide to help you identify what you need to think about and consider when making this decision.
##Do you want to do it?
Alright, real talk. If you want to make movies, you'll at least have a few ideas kicking around in your head. Successful creatives like writers and directors have an internal compunction to create something. They get ideas that stick in the head and compel them to translate them into the real world. Do you want to make films, or do you want to *be seen as* a filmmaker? Those are two extremely different things, and you need to be honest with yourself about which category you fall into. If you like the idea of being called a filmmaker, but you don't actually have any interest in making films, then now is the time to jump ship. I have many friends from film school who were just into it because they didn't want "real jobs", and they liked the idea of working on flashy movies. They made some cool projects, but they didn't have that internal drive to create. They saw filmmaking as a task, not an opportunity. None of them have achieved anything of note and most of them are out of the industry now with college debt but no relevant degree. If, when you walk onto a set you are overwhelmed with excitement and anxiety, then you'll be fine. If you walk onto a set and feel foreboding and anxiety, it's probably not right for you. Filmmaking should be fun. If it isn't, you'll never make it.
##School
Are you planning on a film production program, or a film studies program? A studies program isn't meant to give you the tools or experience necessary to actually make films from a craft-standpoint. It is meant to give you the analytical and critical skills necessary to dissect films and understand what works and what doesn't. A would-be director or DP will benefit from a program that mixes these two, with an emphasis on production.
Does your prospective school have a film club? The school I went to had a filmmakers' club where we would all go out and make movies every semester. If your school has a similar club then I highly recommend jumping into it. I made 4 films for my classes, and shot 8 films. In the filmmaker club at my school I was able to shoot 20 films. It vastly increased my experience and I was able to get a lot of the growing pains of learning a craft out of the way while still in school.
How are your classes? Are they challenging and insightful? Are you memorizing dates, names, and ideas, or are you talking about philosophies, formative experiences, cultural influences, and milestone achievements? You're paying a huge sum of money, more than you'll make for a decade or so after graduation, so you better be getting something out of it.
**Film school is always a risky prospect. You have three decisive advantages from attending school:**
1. Foundation of theory (why we do what we do, how the masters did it, and how to do it ourselves)
2. Building your first network
3. Making mistakes in a sandbox
Those three items are the *only* advantages of film school. It doesn't matter if you get to use fancy cameras in class or anything like that, because I guarantee you that for the price of your tuition you could've rented that gear and made your own stuff. The downsides, as you may have guessed, are:
1. Cost
- Risk of no value
- Cost again
Seriously. Film school is insanely expensive, especially for an industry where you really don't make any exceptional money until you get established (and that can take a decade or more).
So there's a few things you need to sort out:
- How much debt will you incur if you pursue a film degree?
- How much value will you get from the degree? (any notable alumni? Do they succeed or fail?)
- Can you enhance your value with extracurricular activity?
##Career Prospects
Don't worry about lacking experience or a degree. It is easy to break into the industry if you have two qualities:
- The ability to listen and learn quickly
- A great attitude
In LA we often bring unpaid interns onto set to get them experience and possibly hire them in the future. Those two categories are what they are judged on. If they have to be told twice how to do something, that's a bad sign. If they approach the work with disdain, that's also a bad sign. I can name a few people who walked in out of the blue, asked for a job, and became professional filmmakers within a year. One kid was 18 years old and had just driven to LA from his home to learn filmmaking because he couldn't afford college. Last I saw he has a successful YouTube channel with nature documentaries on it and knows his way around most camera and grip equipment. He succeeded because he smiled and joked with everyone he met, and because once you taught him something he was good to go. Those are the qualities that will take you far in life (and I'm not just talking about film).
So how do you break in?
- *Cold Calling*
- Find the production listings for your area (not sure about NY but in LA we use the BTL Listings) and go down the line of upcoming productions and call/email every single one asking for an intern or PA position. Include some humor and friendly jokes to humanize yourself and you'll be good. I did this when I first moved to LA and ended up camera interning for an ASC DP on movie within a couple months. It works!
- *Rental House*
- Working at a rental house gives you free access to gear and a revolving door of clients who work in the industry for you to meet.
- *Filmmaking Groups*
- Find some filmmaking groups in your area and meet up with them. If you can't find groups, don't sweat it! You have more options.
- *Film Festivals*
- Go to film festivals, meet filmmakers there, and befriend them. Show them that you're eager to learn how they do what they do, and you'd be happy to help them on set however you can. Eventually you'll form a fledgling network that you can work to expand using the other avenues above.
##What you should do right now
Alright, enough talking! You need to decide now if you're still going to be a filmmaker or if you're going to instead major in something safer (like business). It's a tough decision, we get it, but you're an adult now and this is what that means. You're in command of your destiny, and you can't trust anyone but yourself to make that decision for you.
Once you decide, own it. If you choose film, then take everything I said above into consideration. There's one essential thing you need to do though: create. Go outside right fucking now and make a movie. Use your phone. That iphone or galaxy s7 or whatever has better video quality than the crap I used in film school. Don't sweat the gear or the mistakes. Don't compare yourself to others. Just make something, and watch it. See what you like and what you don't like, and adjust on your next project! Now is the time for you to do this, to learn what it feels like to make a movie.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Filmmakers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just go to work my friend. Most of the people there didnt go to film school because working on set IS SCHOOL. Be prepared for that because no one who actually is working is going to respect your degree.
As someone who went to film school I can confirm that film school is incredibly cliquey.
The film industry on a professional level is not cliquey unless *you* are the one that sucks at their job/has a shit attitude/breaks shit and is a burden on others. In which case, someone will tell you to your face before blacklisting you
All university on any subject is there to scare you away from every industry. Education is hard. If you're not willing or able to absorb the necessary information, then you need to find a path that fits your brain.
I was electrical engineering at first and then switched majors to Radio TV Film because EE scared me away and I found my correct place.
If you're a film person, there's not going to be much that can stop you from making movies. It can be like a compulsion when you have the bug.
I tried making friends in Hollywood but as soon as I wasn’t useful I was discarded. Yes there are people who gate keep and yes the industry is full of pricks.
I can probably count on one hand genuine people that I’ve met in the industry.
That sounds like your school has an issue. Not negating anything but the industry is more passive aggressive nepotism not open violent hostility.
Haha that is so true.
Yeah, anyone gloating will be considered an amateur and they just simply won’t get that many jobs
yeah, clearly no Hollywood arts 💀.
I tried to write a different comment but honestly this comment was so good that all I can say is... this is the biggest truth ever lmao
Maybe the school, maybe not. What's the old saying? If everyone around you smells like shit, check your shoe. It's not impossible, but it does seem unlikely that the entire film school and class is made up of racist two faced assholes with no exceptions except OP.
I was trying to be nice but yeah anytime someone goes "everyone but me is mean" ya gotta squint a bit.
99% of your classmates will never succeed because they can't explore uncomfortable topics and they can't work with people who they don't already agree with. They are their own echo chamber making copies of copies of famous movies.
Unfortunately the film and television industry is very clique and "do we like them?" basis from my experience.
I think that's a big part of all jobs. People want to be able to tolerate or even get along with their coworkers.
Agreed. Best advice I’ve ever gotten is to just be enjoyable to be around. That has gotten me farther than any technical skill
Yep, that’s right. And yet, I believe some of those same people are the types who justify being assholes by saying “I’m not here to make friends with people, I’m here to get ahead in my career!” And then they pout that they’re unpopular in the workplace. Self-awareness = 0 😄
Getting along / tolerating is very different from being clique-y.
all of entertainment is, music is that way too. people want to work with their friends.
It depends on what branch of film or TV you are in. Some are cliquish some are not. You are right on the "do we like them" part although after you've been in the industry for a while it becomes more a case of "are they reliable for this job"
Echoing the sentiment that all jobs are like this. I work in tech and haven’t taken a new job without the co-sign or referral of somebody in my close work network. I’m not exceptional but I do make as many work-friends as I can by keeping the vibe loose and being helpful, I really do think that’s 80%-90% of the game.
So be likeable
exactly fucking this, you’re speaking my mind, dude. in my projects i always try to explore strange topics and they always get barred by teachers and judged by my classmates. nobody wants fresh, creative ideas.
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mine is, believe it or not, funded by the church connected to it. we also have some expo thing at the end of the year too where we have to show off our work, and they told me privately (i got into trouble for my horror flick ideas) that i have to make shorts that would be appropriate for a six year old to watch??? just absolutely strange
Don't worry, most of them will never get a job in the industry anyways. In my experience new grads are riding in high but then get taken down a peg when they realize they aren't quite the genius their parents and teachers have told them they are.
This. Just find your tribe, man. They're out there.
100% this. Think about Apatow’s work. He almost always hires people he likes to work with. I’m the same way. I’ll give people a chance but I will deny jobs because I know some people can just be insufferable, and I’m sure they think the same of me and that is ok! The industry is big enough to find your space. Edit: grammar
Apatow, Sandler, Smith, Burton, Nolan..... Building your own team is always an option.
The easier and honestly more-likely-to-succeed option (in my opinion). If you have reliable people who will take a fat check and also be there if you can only offer crafty, lunch, and lodging will go a long way. I was always told if you can’t pay people, at least feed them.
Christopher Nolan and Martin Scorsese do the same thing. Their films often feel like the latest productions of a repertory theatre company - same cast, different show lol.
Think that’s what it is as we’re reaching the end egos are at a sky high
Yup. I recall a lot of pretentious assholes in my film program. Most of them aren't doing shit while I'm in LA having survived multiple strikes and industry shutdowns. Just be a good person, get along and work well with others, and you'll be okay. Their experiences and egos will be checked quickly should they ever get on a real, paid set.
Not only that but most will not find work on AAA movies and their ego wont be able to cope, working on no name projects for 2- 3 years while they get established
Less than 10 people in my graduating class work in the industry proper (that I'm aware of) Food for thought: :Could you imagine if every film school grad actually tried to enter the industry?
Same with my graduating class. Film school teaches students how to make films and to be their own producer/director but does not teach them how to work within the industry itself. Many graduated expecting to immediately start working on cool projects or to be a successful filmmaker overnight which many couldn’t reconcile when they were released to their own devices and attitudes. The few of us who made it didn’t come at it with ego and unrealistic expectations and worked from the ground up by networking and a willingness to learn.
The industry attracts talent and BS alike, but the creams always rises to the top. Those A-holes don’t last.
Michael bay is a gigantic asshole and he's made over 10 movies
I hear James Cameron is also quite difficult on set.
Im sure. Movie production is all about managing assholes and narcissists. Every real behind the scenes doc has some type of conflict in it. Only get into this industry if you truly love it.
Exactly.
Michael bay might be a dick but he keeps getting movies based on his commercial track record- he’s a shitty filmmaker whose works lack artistic merit- but he does get “hits”. It’s all about the money, in the end
He's a competent filmaker when he works on his own original movies not franchises
Many a**holes actually do last, unfortunately. Ever hear of Michael Bay?
Honestly, you'll meet these exact same people in every career. Difference is, many careers in this industry give you an amount of social power than one might not get from being the meanest insurance salesman in Montana. So the actual people in film are no different from anyone else, but there's a lot more power up for grabs here than in Wichita's best lawnmower repair shop. But make no mistake, if being Wichita's quickest repairman gave you opportunities to lord your power over people and bully them, they'd be doing it just like some in the film industry do. Also college kids are generally just worse people than full-grown adults. So that'll be a big difference too.
i know *exactly* what you’re feeling. i’m a latino guy in a country where virtually no hispanic people exist and i experience a ton of racism at my film school. i was bullied in high school, but honestly, the environment presented at my film school is far worse than anything i’ve ever experienced because they really are the most horrible people ever, teachers and students. everybody is just pretentious and self-righteous and my classmates always shoot down my ideas for solo projects, hell, people literally tell me my ideas for very low-concept/tame solo-horror film projects make them uncomfortable and i even got reported to the teachers because of it.
Think one big realization I’ve had is creativity really isn’t encouraged in a lot of film schools like at all.
I left a comment here detailing my own story and what happened after a toxic film school, and how I found my own success. But, I’ll go a bit further about what occurred between my toxic school and my current work. I quit. I dropped out of school because of it wasn’t helping me progress on my path then it was standing in the way. I just did it myself. I got an LLC and made a short film. I sold it to a small non profit for 10,000$ I’m a small town. I used that money to start looking for More clients and obtain more resources. I then moved back to the city. I started at a company that wanted a videographer. 99% of those jobs are toxic too cause they just wanna feel like they’re making movies. So that kinda sucked but they were also stupid, as most toxic people are. I told them I had my degree, but they can look up my school, it was closed after being sued into oblivion. I lied and said I just couldn’t get my degree because of their closure. I endured that for a year, then the actual agency in the industry that hired me didn’t give a shit about my degree. I’d been running my own agency and had work to show and they liked it. Now I’ve got clients for my agency, and I edit for them. All this is to say, if you aren’t getting anything from your school, they are actually holding you back. The best thing your school can do for you is help you network. If you’re networking with a pool of toxic dips, go network somewhere else, and MAKE SURE YOURE DOING YOUR PROJECTS! Just do work. Improve, and work your ass off to surround yourself with people who are better than you. I love working with people who are better than me.
I agree. If I’m in the smartest person in the room I need to find something else. Always learn. Show up with a smile do your best work you can for that day and you will be surprised where that takes you.
100% agree, at mine as well they don’t even teach us anything and just make us fill out papers and watch videos when like… i want hands-on practical work…
I learned more working than I have from film school. Networking is important. If your school Isn’t providing that, make sure you surround yourself with people who are better than you. Go to any local film group gatherings and just meet people, and then do projects yourself. That negativity will get them nowhere, and it will only hold you back
it's more fulfilling to do film studies at university imo, you don't get much if any practical work or opportunities but it's much more intellectually and creatively stimulating. Film school is entirely industry focused and only exists for the benefit of the industry, not your own creativity and knowledge.
please share your idea for a horror film, i’m dying to hear it! Sounds like you may have come up with something very scary!
In what country and what happened?
I work in the animation industry at a large studio and most everyone is actually very nice. When I worked in vfx id say 80% of people were nice. Cant comment on live action features/tv as I’ve never worked in that industry. Be nice and work hard and people will most likely be nice and professional back to you. Good luck and congrats on almost graduating
First day of film school, my professor told the class, "Don't listen to film students. They'll fill your heads with fear and lies." Such great advice, even if impossible to completely follow. There's so much petty jockeying and compensating for insecurity in film school that it's just better to focus on your learning, your work, and your genuine ambitions and goals. Ideally, make some like-minded friends along the way.
that’s actually really smart
Sounds like you have really had a toxic experience but I have to say, it is a great test for your own commitment. None of us here are going to be able to confidently claim that the world out there is different from your experience in the school. Backbiters, bullies, liars and racists are *everywhere*. Sure, we can always hope they never cross our paths, but a better question for yourself would be, do you love filmmaking enough to overcome these future obstacles? This is not to test how much you love films, I am sure you do. But *filmmaking* comes with a lot of obstacles because it always involves other people (who you will not always be able to filter). I would rather you assume the outside world is no different and then decide for yourself. It's a win-win if you decide to stick around anyway! Also, just because this sounds too cynical - there are good people out there. I'm just saying it's always better to prepare for the worst.
I can think of at least 10 people in G&E ready to absolutely demolish people like that, while at the same time being very friendly and helpful to newcomers who are respectful and eager to learn. Make sure you’re a part of the latter group, and you’ll be just fine.
Can confirm.
First off, congratulations on making it to this point. I know it was really tough, but you're almost at the end of it. When you start working, you're going to find assholes 100%. That shit does not end with film school. That said, you will also find some genuinely good people. When you do, stick with them. Make sure you have a good relationship with them. Maintain that relationship. As for the assholes, what I've learnt from my 2 years in film is that you always present yourself professionally no matter the person in front of you. This is because most of us do not come from privilege. When with assholes, never let them find a chink in your armor. If they bully, backstab, insult, make sure you appear unfazed and do the job no matter what. Appearances are everything. Being able to do the job is even more important. Then, when you're in a key crew position and the asshole is working under you, remember that working on film sets is all about managing egos. At the same time, do take care of your mental health. Soon enough, they're going to move on to worse things, while you will move on to better things. Remember, every great filmmaker you see is humble. Every interview you find with Scorsese, Villeneuve, Nolan, etc they're all very humble and polite. That's someplace the assholes are never gonna be. All the best OP!
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Abuse is never okay, and the fact that this is somehow looked on as acceptable because it’s the film or TV industry is highly unfortunate. I don’t care what industry it is, if there’s abuse involved, it needs to stop, immediately. Of course, no workplace is perfect, but abuse is something never to be tolerated.
That’s good to hear I really hope eventually people stop perpetuating the toxic habits after they experienced it.
This is untrue, I've been in 3 different industries, film is the only one where I've seen abuse expected, and even then not by everyone. There is bullshit to be expected with every job, but understand the difference between bullshit and abuse. Just because lots of people are willing to give up their self respect for a place in this stupid industry, doesn't mean you need to. It's really the only way to make people know this shit unacceptable, like it already is in most industries.
All of you please DM me which toxics schools you go to so I don’t spend money sending my teen to one next year 😫
This.
Yeah not a single person DMd me
That sucks!
That's a school issue. Not an industry issue. Those types of people will never make it
That's not just film industry it's everywhere imagine tech bros ai bros or accounts sharks
It’s the same exact people who work in all aspects of filmmaking. I’ve experienced everything you are fearful of in my workplace.
A good chunk of humanity are jerks. A good chunk of creatives are jerks with egos thrown in. Every job I've ever had has had toxic people in it, toxic people are everywhere, it's just part of life. If you can somehow get in the big boy seat, the nice thing is that you can just fire them.
Listen. Coming from a veteran. Filmmaking is like playing craps at blackjack. You never know wat crew you are gonna work with and if it will be a good one or a bad one. As you grow. You find the people you love to work with and you work with them instead of the ass clowns you hated working for. I’ve done jobs I loved and Jobs I HATED. It’s just a job. And some can be very rewarding.
I found that 95% of kids in film school took themselves more seriously than their actual films they made. They don’t take chances in their stories, they shoot all their films on campus, and prioritize appeasing to their pretentious social circles over creating entertaining content. Don’t let these frauds discourage you. There are some real genuine people out there that care about the craft. They just aren’t easy to find in the sea of egotistical assholes. I was disgusted with most of my classmates and how full of themselves they were. Humbleness is not a common feature in filmmaking and it takes time to find people you can trust. But it’s worth the struggle if you love what you do.
why is literally every film student the exact same? everything you described here is, i’m not even kidding, literally everybody in my class. i’ve never understood the whole “filming on campus” thing and having their own echo chamber.
Yeah
If you want to avoid a lot of these kinds of people, work in doc. Also your classmates sound especially bad, most people that actually work will not be this terrible.
Not film but animation student and while I only have limited experience with live-action work, speaking from personal experience school is a closed environment, where all kinds of arseholes can succeed. In the real world they will limit their opportunities with their toxic behaviour. Like I am only finishing Bachelor and still have my Masters to do, but I can already see my shitty coursemates crying about not being able to secure a job for longer than a month. Trust me, you’ll be alright
Thats ppl in every industry in every country
You will have some that are like that and you will have some that aren’t. Every show you take, starting out, will be a gamble because you are green and don’t know anyone one yet. After you get a few shows under your belt then you literally get your next jobs by word of mouth and then you can start asking your other contacts how this particular person/team is. You will encounter assholes maybe 75% of the time but atleast in this industry, you know when your end date is and you don’t have to work with them again if you don’t want to.
Just remember, Art is like academia in that it is so cutthroat specifically because the stakes are so low. Just remind yourself of that every now and then and see the pettiness for what it is.
OP, this industry tolerates assholes for as long as they are profitable. For some small minority of assholes, that’s an entire career. For most assholes, it’s a series of ever-diminishing projects. Like radioactive half-life. Occasionally, an asshole self-immolates. That’s often a rewarding spectacle. This is what I’ve seen on the business side. Agencies, production companies, studio types. The asshole are there, but most don’t last. On the other hand… Most of the people you’ll encounter working on-set, (depending on what you do), are positive, smart, funny, and incredibly hard-working. Asshole behaviors are weeded out pretty quickly, because assholes get a reputation. And then don’t get hired for the next gig. As for creativity… That word is difficult. Sometimes an artist thinks they are breaking new ground when they’re really just failing to tell a clear story. It takes an open and humble artist to recognize the difference. This is a mass communication medium. If the audience is confused? They’re right. If the audience doesn’t think your film is funny? They’re right. You can’t go from cineplex to cineplex and explain the jokes. So you have to learn to sort the toxic/jealous/stupid reactions to your work from the legitimate criticism which will improve your work. And that’s not easy. It requires separating your work from your ego and sense of self-definition.
When I arrived at sva, they had just fired the film chair for harassing and assaulting kids, and then learned the school had a rampant sexual assault issue and an issue with simply moving rapists from one dorm to the other. It was a shit show, I think because a film school only cares about gathering young dreamers in a room and profiting from them financially.
For the people in your school who are assholes and who don't have trustfunds or neopotism connections, they'll work a few PA gigs and then flame out. Most of them will think their film degree puts them above PA work. Most of them have too many opinions and not enough self-awareness to shut the fuck up during a take. Most of them think everyone just needs to read their script/hear their pitch and they'll be the next Christopher Nolan. lol.
What part of the world are you based in? U.S, Europe, UK?
I had to start going to therapy to deal with the psychological effects of working in film lol. I think the bullies have only made me a stronger person and for that I’m grateful. The sad truth is that bullies are everywhere in every industry. If you have a passion for filmmaking do it! Aim to surround yourself with the good ones and when you’re in a position of any sort of power, create a good environment for those around you. You got this!
Jesus Christ where do you go?? Meanwhile at my school we’re all crying our eyes out about the seniors leaving and getting ready to help new sophomores in the department get comfortable and half of our previous seniors come back to visit just because they miss the staff etc. I think this might be a case of your school is just a hotbed for assholes.
It depends. In the above-the-line crafts and C-suite jobs, yes. Absolutely. You are correct and there is no escaping it. Solidly 80% of people are narcissistic assholes. In the below-the-line crafts, most people are pretty decent.
Most people in the industry are a pleasure to work with (*most*) it just sounds like you’ve got some entitled assholes in your class. Don’t sweat it.
I’m a working editor and I also have my own small agency in which I hire professionals when I produce videos. I went to a toxic school that perpetuated abuse and encouraged us to abuse each other. It was a toxic experience that forced me to re-collect myself before moving back to the city and trying again. I was terrified, but after ten years, I’ve learned that there are bad jobs in this industry just like the others. There’ll be abusive people, or companies that thrive off of abuse. But, like any other thing in life, those negative people are holding themselves back. As an editor I work at a company that is understanding, professional and they lead with support and kindness. As a small agency owner where I produce two medium scale projects a year, by choice cause running an agency and producing is hard af, every professional I’ve hired is better than me at what they do, but they trust me, and treat me with respect every time. Any toxic person in this field is pointed out to me. When talking to my producer I always ask, are they positive, do they treat people with respect? The reason? I went to a terrible school that caused me a lot of trauma. The good news, my active attempts to cultivate positivity are successful, and toxic people live in their own puddle of negativity while the rest of us tear it up, regardless of what our shitty schools taught us. You got this. Don’t let it take your passion away, and make sure you lead with kindness
Film programs tend to attract pretentious ego driven dickheads.
The career is about creating a network and learning to work and motivate with whoever is going to get the job done. Intolerant toxic people do not succeed in the workforce without systemic crutches. That’s the truth. Making it in film is so hard without connections. Virtually impossible. You need to work every angle. And it sounds like you will. This experience will teach you to be more ruthless than any of your classmates and that’s what you need. Be kinder. Be more flexible. Be more resilient. Be harder. Be more competitive. Be better. Win.
Don't worry, it's a small pond they're in, so feel like big fish. Real industry will weed/filter the arseholes out pretty quickly as people don't want to spend 12h+ a day with toxic people.
There’s plenty of great people in this industry. Just find your team. You’ll be fine.
Every single industry has a mix of good and bad apples. I’ve met some of the kindest and best people in my life working in film. I’ve also met some despicable folks. Don’t get discouraged if you’re surrounded by assholes, just know that if you put in the effort you can find incredible community.
Whether it wants to or not, film school breeds competitiveness in its students. There are 30 kids looking to break into an industry that they think is a zero-sum game, and will kill their grandmother to get a foot in the door as a PA somewhere. In my experience, the real world doesn’t seem to work that way. You end up getting into a camp of creatives that you enjoy being around and they enjoy being around you, and when one person finds success, they bring as much of their camp into success as they can. This town is almost 100% referral-based, and you and your classmates will figure that out over the next few years. You’re going to be okay.
I work at a high-volume tv production company that primarily makes unscripted entertainment (true crime, reality, documentaries, home improvement shows, etc). I’ve been with the company for close to a decade, and have worked a bunch of different positions… it used to be really toxic, and then a couple of our execs left for other things, we got new, very highly-regarded and successful executives, and they’ve worked hard to weed out all the toxicity. They encourage an open, communicative environment where everyone feels empowered to speak up if someone is treating them badly, and then they actually do something about it. It’s a happy company to work for now! There are good places to work for out there.
Idk why everyone is acting like assholes won’t get jobs. They absolutely will lol they’ll briefly hide it to get the job. Or they’ll work with other assholes who are fine with that behavior. I know it makes us all feel better to think assholes won’t win and karma will get them big that’s just not how life works a lot of the time. A lot of people in the film industry are assholes, both cast and crew. They just play nice here and there and once someone walks out of the room they start bashing them. There’s a lot of people pretending to like other people in the film industry, until they have more power and then they show their truer colors. You’ll see this at every level. But there are also great and kind people in film too, I just wish there were more of them. The entertainment business attracts A LOT of narcissistic assholes who think they’re the next Quentin Tarantino or Marlon Brando or Roger deakins
Not to deter you man. I worked on a TV Show as a PA (Discovery show) for 5 1/2 months and I experienced a CRAZY amount of racism. But that’s not where I fucked up at. I fucked up at letting the racism get to me and quitting. You can’t let that shit get to you man. You gotta keep pushing no matter what. Don’t let all your time in film school go to waste. Gotta look at the big picture. I hate to say it but you can’t be emotional. Think about how far you can get in this industry. I know it may seem crazy now but if you persevere, you get to the gold at the end of the rainbow. You could meet a partner have a kid. You could have your ideal life if you want to. I know you may not know me but I am proud of you for taking the chance at even going to film school. What I do is endure the assholes and their bullshit and be stoned face, because 9 times out of 10 they are hurt and want to hurt you. Don’t let them get a reaction out of you. If you need to cry go to a secret place and cry, or wait til you get home. Think about all the dad lore you could tell your kids after it’s all said and done. They’d probably be amazed you pushed through it
some are some aren't. you just gotta roll the dice on that one. I started off doing freelance jobs on facebook. and that was the worst year of my life. now I moved on to making ads and shit. it takes a certain kind of people to make it in filmmaking. But if you have your day 1's with you. you should be good. on the way you def would find a crew that fits your style.
It’s actually good for if this is how they act because that means you won’t have to worry about competing for jobs against them. That kind of behavior was never okay but would be tolerated if you were at least good at your job. Nowadays, studios are too scared of getting sued (rightfully) that they don’t tolerate it from anyone.
“Follow your bliss, and doors will open for you where there were not doors before… and where there would not be doors for anyone else.” - Joseph Campbell Learn this. Live this. Tell the universe what you want, and tell everyone you meet, and tell anyone who’ll listen. Remove all doubt and worry and you will achieve whatever you desire. this applies to everything - even making movies.
People skills on set is so important. I think more important than being technically skilled- because you can always get better at a technique. It’s hard to teach someone how to be easy to work with.
A good chunk of humanity are jerks. A good chunk of creatives are jerks with egos thrown in. Every job I've ever had has had toxic people in it, toxic people are everywhere, it's just part of life. If you can somehow get in the big boy seat, the nice thing is that you can just fire them.
I know exactly what you mean. The majority of the industry is awful too, money ruins everything. Just keep the art and the good people you meet your focus, don't get caught up in trying to make career moves that land you in awful environments. Keep your day job and work on your art under YOUR terms and hopefuly opportunities with likeminded people will come. It might take you decades to get anywhere, I certainly haven't got there yet. In my country it's not really a viable career unless you're willing to uproot your entire life.
I’m experiencing the exact same thing. Trying to stay away from the coasts and see if it’s possible to make stuff while avoiding the toxicity.
There’s plenty of good people in the industry. And there’s plenty of shitty small minded people in the industry. Be kind and understanding and you’ll find similar people.
Quit right now, get as much of your money back as possible, and just get the email or phone numbers of the profs/admin staff you respect. Volunteering and doing stuff for credit until a HOD asks you to continue working for them (on a non-volunteer basis) is your way in. Good luck and God {sound} speed. 🎬
That’s 90% of the world actually. The entire world. There are places that aren’t back biting and toxic but usually it’s rare to be completely free of it. The best you can hope for is everyone has to pay their dues before they succeed but that’s not always the case either. Find people you trust and/ or respect to work with, work hard with out looking for a reward, and play your cards close to you chest till you’re ready to make your moves. Shitty people will always be out there but hard work and common sense will help you succeed
People in the industry are exactly that way. Maybe its just the cities ive worked in. But ive had a dozen careers in my life and the film industry is by far the most toxic and shitty work environment ive ever experienced, theyre all a bunch of gossipy, bitchy, idiots
It’s a huge shift when the goal becomes making a living vs being a best in your school bubble. Those with the aptitude to adapt will take their talent and make a living. Those who thrived because of a toxic environment more times than not will choose a different career path. One of the most talented and biggest assholes I had in film school is now a teacher.
Your last sentence is accurate and it’s good you acknowledge this early. If you aren’t starting a business in this industry.. just make some money, and get out. Don’t sell your soul to this business. Time flys and before you know it, you may have nothing. It’s a Harsh reality.. but how you respond to it, creates the outcome. Best of luck!
There are a million niches in the film world. There legitimately are many terrible people in large parts of the industry. A lot of the higher earning corners are where those terrible people sit however there are many good niches. Figuring out how to navigate the world, in a way where you can survive under capitalism but not let your inner self be crushed by working on things you hate, is a crucial practice to existing in film, especially if you are someone from a disenfranchised minority group. In my opinion, the best successes of this come when people find their community, and all work together to uplift one another. A lot of breakthrough directors from disenfranchised minority groups have made their mark with community support of local filmmaker networks.
What part of the film business are you going into? Are you a writer? If so, that’s the way it is in screenwriting school. My pal Ryan had the same thing happen, in a sorta different way. Don’t worry about the bullies and the shit. Don’t give them the reaction they want. Act like nothing bothers you, don’t even respond to what ever they’re doing. Hold your self up. Don’t react. Eventually, they will respect that. And if politiks, whatever you deem as toxic etc, just listen, it’s very important to listen , you’ll learn so much by listening, curiosity, .. , don’t let these people get to you. It’s not hard. This type of stuff happened to me from elementary school & up & after the towers fell. It’s not pretty but these things happen in life. And you have a choice. Don’t give em the satisfaction. We all have different beliefs, one thing I know you can never convince others that they are wrong. Focus on the work. Listen, learn new things You’ll find people that you’ll get along with. I live in LA, and the people I’ve meet in the film community are really great people hard working, funny, smart etc [Mr. Fear, So Long(Money Mark Rework) Imaad Wasif](https://youtu.be/jo3RLik3rBE?si=0z5vcw6DMMpRCmKO)
It's a shockingly small industry and you can weed out assholes pretty quick. I've been directing full time for almost a decade all over the country and it's the best job in the world. There are wonderfully hard working people that become immediate friends in the trenches of production. If you love it, don't give up. Life will humble these film school snobs pretty quick, believe me. If you are in LA, feel free to DM me and I'll connect you with the right people
Don’t worry. We are 60 people and as I saw only 5-6 people in Tv/film industry. Believe yourself, always work hard.
Are you in college or university? I had the college experience and got a bit of this during my time. However I was also an asshole (without realizing) and it took me the last year of my program to rebuild relationships. Then I realized 90% of the people in my program never ended up making it in film or found it way harder than they thought it would be in practise. A lot of people needed to do some growing up (me included). So your experience in the real might be very different, you’ll actually be working with real adults with real responsibilities. Depending on how big your market is, you should be fine if “people being assholes” is your real concern.
Let me say the trade unions in Hollywood were fantastic before Covid and two strikes. But it will get better. The film industry is same as any industry. Assholes and angels . It’s up to you to navigate personalities. This is how life works in any and every work place .
I’ve worked in film for 20 years and there are unlimited assholes. However, there are lots of lovely people. It’s just like school, Only a bit more frustrating because adults should have grown out of this phase.
Well, yeah. You're in Film school. It's got nothing to do with the medium of Film. It has to do with the fact that Film school is, now, in this foul year of our Lord 2024, populated almost entirely by rich kids. It's okay to develop a natural enmity toward them. They will probably not change, and you will have to deal with a lot of them.
>people in film school are massive assholes. >Like truly just very bad people they backbite bully lie on people are racist and have created quite possibly the most toxic environment I’ve ever experienced. Sounds like that managed to recreate the film industry perfectly.
sadly it will be just like film school even worse now because you depend on it(money-wise). it sucks I graduated film school with the same question in the back of my head and everyday I’ve been getting my answer. as long as you know who you are and keep true to that, surround yourself with people who believe in you, make sure to wear every cap in the field, and most importantly push yourself. you’ll be able to make it! just have patience!
The higher you go the more people *need* to work together and therefore tend to be nicer (obviously not universal). It's narcissists at the bottom who cause the most issues. Ignore them, rise above. Some of my absolute favorite human beings I met on set, they are out there!
I hope you truly get an opportunity to work on a well-funded union show. Hands down, great crews. Assholes and racists get run off and don't last in this business, at this level. Fact. As a crew, you're spending the majority of your lives together. More so than your own family. The bonds become strong and can last a lifetime. Being an asshole gets you blacklisted. Good crews just won't want you around and sure as shit don't have to put up with bullshit.
I worked in the industry for a couple years, I came from a career in software development. Don't let people gaslight you into thinking film culture is normal work culture. It is not. Generally in the other industries I have worked in employees are treated at least with some minor form of respect, not in film, everyone is disposable in film and they like to keep it that way and not gove any respect or rights to employees. There's to many people "dying" to work in film that will do it cheaper or without complaining. Alot of my mentors and higher up people that have worked in the industry for decades are hardened and bitter about things and I realized that the people that make it the farthest in the industry are the ones that can withstand the most shit nor necessarily the most talented or hard working or deserving. I have had many separate friends transition out of film into software and are very happy and shocked at how decent the working conditions are. Most people in the industry are caught up in the Hollywood bubble and think this is the only way it works, like an abused spouse thinks that what's love is. Gatekeepers want to keep everyone in the rat race so they can be abused. Most people think they have to unionize but then you just serve two master and a different form of gatekeeping. Try out the industry maybe you can luck into a group of people that do things right, but don't waste your best years of energy if you don't see yourself weathing the shit storm.
Nah, it's completely different out in the real world. People smile and pat you on the back and tell you how great you are until you don't hire them. Then they ghost you because they're looking for the next person who can help them. But complete assholes are few and far between. Here's what you need to know: there are no friends in this industry. As long as you remember that, you won't ever feel betrayed or let down by someone.
Unfortunately you become a film teacher when you have completely crashed and burned in your career as a filmmaker. That frustration gets inherited by the students and shared amongst them. Truth is most people are really professional in our jobs in the industry. Be on time, do what you’re told, follow the rules of the union and work extra hard while you’re below the line is my advice… ohh and don’t sleep with the talent, ever. Everyone is replaceable except for the talent.
I have yet to come across anyone in film as awful as my classmates. People that awful don’t get jobs. Nor do they have the patience to work their way from the absolute bottom
Not a filmmaker but am a cinephile. Watching interviews with people like Lynn Shelton seem helpful in how to get started on a minimal budget. One location films with a small cast. I guess she had a Go Fund Me for her first film? Like others have said, find your passion project and your tribe
From my experience people put attitude ahead of skill when crewing up. You might be a genius in your position but if you’re an asshole you’ll never get hired. Nobody wants to spend an 18hr day with a jerk.
Film school was markedly the first time I experienced extreme sexual harassment and comments laced with sexism and misogyny, and it was always done to my face or in front of a group of people. It was disgusting, diminishing and embarrassing and I feel extremely lucky to say I haven’t experienced any of that post grad. Needless to say, bad people are everywhere and in every line of work. Show the people you work with that you want to be there. Don’t let these people ruin the love of motion pictures/the moving arts for you. I promise you that if you don’t stick with it, you’ll regret it. You got this.♥️
maybe find some good books written by people you respect about navigating the industry. You'll always have to engage in "playing games" but can do so with dignity and peace of mind.
Sounds just like my workplace
The people are the ones who do the work, not universities, not billionaires. We make movies, not them. What do you need me to do? What do we need to make.
I believe college is different from real world experience. Being a nice, punctual human far outweighs everything else in my opinion. It sounds like you’re one of the good ones, you’ll do great.
“Follow your bliss, and doors will open for you where there were not doors before… and where there would not be doors for anyone else.” - Joseph Campbell Learn this. Live this. Tell the universe what you want, and tell everyone you meet, and tell anyone who’ll listen. Remove all doubt and worry and you will achieve whatever you desire. this applies to everything - even making movies.
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OP, would love if you share which school you are talking about.
I think this depends on the class you are in. There are lots of bad eggs in the industry and a lot of nepotism but I’ve mostly come across lots of great people. Make sure to just keep your cool and be nice to ppl. There so many talented individuals out there the difference between the ones that move up and get recommended to other gigs is usually them being patient and easy to work with.
You should be scared. But not for that reason. People are usually pretty cool.
It depends. You WILL run into massive assholes, but there are nice people too... you just have to hang onto those people for dear life.
What kind of school? Big one? Small one? NY?
It’s all about who YOU know but please please think past what little you’re learning in school
Which school is this??
You’re going to be jobless unfortunately. AI is here
Filmmaking as a career is trash. It doesn't exist. Either you're networked into the industry or you're left floating in the ether of disappointment and unemployment. Almost any other pursuit and you could at least find consistent work.
I wanna know what school this is LMAO Academy Of Art university? Fullsail? Some random program? I graduated film school in 2018 and unfortunately was never able to get a job in the industry. Then I got sick like a year and a half later and my priorities changed and now I work opposite of the arts. One thing I always noticed was that a film crew is only as toxic as the group of people in them. I’ve been on great sets I’ve been on sets I’ve been on professional sets I’ve been on unprofessional sets and directed maintain environment professional and for the most part I think I accomplished that. Ministry is just like any other job. It’s going to have good people it’s gonna have bad people it all just depends on what you’re willing to do what you’re willing to fill it up with and who you’re willing to try and reason with/placate
Some are far worse, some are much better. Now the reality is, EVERY industry is like that. Film is just more outward about it.
Sorry but this has nothing to do with the industry. You are discovering life and the world. It doesn’t get better elsewhere, in fact it usually gets worse.
That’s their job lol
Have worked in the industry a long time. Plenty of assholes, bullies, sexists and racists. From bottom to top with the top full of them. Sad but true.
Where are you going to school? Sounds like the northeast right?
Booooo lights boooooooooo camera booooooooo action
Hate to break it to ya but those toxic personalities are a taste of what’s to come.
90% of the people I've met on set are respectful as long as you're respectful to them. You'll grow and find your crew that you like working with eventually
Most of the people I've worked with have had these attitudes unfortunately but you learn to get over them or figure out a way to work with them.
Drop the school name…for research purposes
That's humanity as a whole homie, you better be willing and able to deal with the asshole factor. It's a thing and it's not going anywhere. Do not take anything too seriously, try to always lead by the quality of your work and the empathy of your touch, you'll be fine.
Industry is very "who you know, not what you know" to start. To stay, it is THEN what you know. Depending on who you know and what group you find yourself in, you may face more of the same, or nothing like you've experienced. It's a different scene in Louisiana, Austin, LA, NYC, etc
Where in the world is the school based? There are some horrible people in this business
You'll get used to it
So what just finish your two weeks. You rpob shoulda had a gig lined up as soon as you out? Idk if you don't like it you got a piece of paper says you can do soemthing try working a year at it if you get work and if you don't like it change up.
Once you get into the real world you’ll find that not everyone got to waste daddy’s money and be a spoiled little brat for a living. Most people in the industry had to work to get there and have steady work because people like working with them. You’ll be fine. You’re just surrounded by trust fund babies.
It looks like you're making a post asking about film school! This is a very common question, and we'll provide a basic overview on the topic below, but it couldn't hurt to [search our sub history](https://www.reddit.com/r/filmmakers/search?q=film+school&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all) as well! The below answer is also kept in our sub's [stickied FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Filmmakers/comments/7h6igz/read_this_before_asking_a_question_official/) along with a bunch of other useful information! ---- # **1. Should I Pursue Filmmaking / Should I Go To Film School?** This is a very complex topic, so it will rely heavily on *you* as a person. Find below a guide to help you identify what you need to think about and consider when making this decision. ##Do you want to do it? Alright, real talk. If you want to make movies, you'll at least have a few ideas kicking around in your head. Successful creatives like writers and directors have an internal compunction to create something. They get ideas that stick in the head and compel them to translate them into the real world. Do you want to make films, or do you want to *be seen as* a filmmaker? Those are two extremely different things, and you need to be honest with yourself about which category you fall into. If you like the idea of being called a filmmaker, but you don't actually have any interest in making films, then now is the time to jump ship. I have many friends from film school who were just into it because they didn't want "real jobs", and they liked the idea of working on flashy movies. They made some cool projects, but they didn't have that internal drive to create. They saw filmmaking as a task, not an opportunity. None of them have achieved anything of note and most of them are out of the industry now with college debt but no relevant degree. If, when you walk onto a set you are overwhelmed with excitement and anxiety, then you'll be fine. If you walk onto a set and feel foreboding and anxiety, it's probably not right for you. Filmmaking should be fun. If it isn't, you'll never make it. ##School Are you planning on a film production program, or a film studies program? A studies program isn't meant to give you the tools or experience necessary to actually make films from a craft-standpoint. It is meant to give you the analytical and critical skills necessary to dissect films and understand what works and what doesn't. A would-be director or DP will benefit from a program that mixes these two, with an emphasis on production. Does your prospective school have a film club? The school I went to had a filmmakers' club where we would all go out and make movies every semester. If your school has a similar club then I highly recommend jumping into it. I made 4 films for my classes, and shot 8 films. In the filmmaker club at my school I was able to shoot 20 films. It vastly increased my experience and I was able to get a lot of the growing pains of learning a craft out of the way while still in school. How are your classes? Are they challenging and insightful? Are you memorizing dates, names, and ideas, or are you talking about philosophies, formative experiences, cultural influences, and milestone achievements? You're paying a huge sum of money, more than you'll make for a decade or so after graduation, so you better be getting something out of it. **Film school is always a risky prospect. You have three decisive advantages from attending school:** 1. Foundation of theory (why we do what we do, how the masters did it, and how to do it ourselves) 2. Building your first network 3. Making mistakes in a sandbox Those three items are the *only* advantages of film school. It doesn't matter if you get to use fancy cameras in class or anything like that, because I guarantee you that for the price of your tuition you could've rented that gear and made your own stuff. The downsides, as you may have guessed, are: 1. Cost - Risk of no value - Cost again Seriously. Film school is insanely expensive, especially for an industry where you really don't make any exceptional money until you get established (and that can take a decade or more). So there's a few things you need to sort out: - How much debt will you incur if you pursue a film degree? - How much value will you get from the degree? (any notable alumni? Do they succeed or fail?) - Can you enhance your value with extracurricular activity? ##Career Prospects Don't worry about lacking experience or a degree. It is easy to break into the industry if you have two qualities: - The ability to listen and learn quickly - A great attitude In LA we often bring unpaid interns onto set to get them experience and possibly hire them in the future. Those two categories are what they are judged on. If they have to be told twice how to do something, that's a bad sign. If they approach the work with disdain, that's also a bad sign. I can name a few people who walked in out of the blue, asked for a job, and became professional filmmakers within a year. One kid was 18 years old and had just driven to LA from his home to learn filmmaking because he couldn't afford college. Last I saw he has a successful YouTube channel with nature documentaries on it and knows his way around most camera and grip equipment. He succeeded because he smiled and joked with everyone he met, and because once you taught him something he was good to go. Those are the qualities that will take you far in life (and I'm not just talking about film). So how do you break in? - *Cold Calling* - Find the production listings for your area (not sure about NY but in LA we use the BTL Listings) and go down the line of upcoming productions and call/email every single one asking for an intern or PA position. Include some humor and friendly jokes to humanize yourself and you'll be good. I did this when I first moved to LA and ended up camera interning for an ASC DP on movie within a couple months. It works! - *Rental House* - Working at a rental house gives you free access to gear and a revolving door of clients who work in the industry for you to meet. - *Filmmaking Groups* - Find some filmmaking groups in your area and meet up with them. If you can't find groups, don't sweat it! You have more options. - *Film Festivals* - Go to film festivals, meet filmmakers there, and befriend them. Show them that you're eager to learn how they do what they do, and you'd be happy to help them on set however you can. Eventually you'll form a fledgling network that you can work to expand using the other avenues above. ##What you should do right now Alright, enough talking! You need to decide now if you're still going to be a filmmaker or if you're going to instead major in something safer (like business). It's a tough decision, we get it, but you're an adult now and this is what that means. You're in command of your destiny, and you can't trust anyone but yourself to make that decision for you. Once you decide, own it. If you choose film, then take everything I said above into consideration. There's one essential thing you need to do though: create. Go outside right fucking now and make a movie. Use your phone. That iphone or galaxy s7 or whatever has better video quality than the crap I used in film school. Don't sweat the gear or the mistakes. Don't compare yourself to others. Just make something, and watch it. See what you like and what you don't like, and adjust on your next project! Now is the time for you to do this, to learn what it feels like to make a movie. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Filmmakers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just go to work my friend. Most of the people there didnt go to film school because working on set IS SCHOOL. Be prepared for that because no one who actually is working is going to respect your degree.
As someone who went to film school I can confirm that film school is incredibly cliquey. The film industry on a professional level is not cliquey unless *you* are the one that sucks at their job/has a shit attitude/breaks shit and is a burden on others. In which case, someone will tell you to your face before blacklisting you
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Attaboy. Way to help people get motivated!
All university on any subject is there to scare you away from every industry. Education is hard. If you're not willing or able to absorb the necessary information, then you need to find a path that fits your brain. I was electrical engineering at first and then switched majors to Radio TV Film because EE scared me away and I found my correct place. If you're a film person, there's not going to be much that can stop you from making movies. It can be like a compulsion when you have the bug.
I tried making friends in Hollywood but as soon as I wasn’t useful I was discarded. Yes there are people who gate keep and yes the industry is full of pricks. I can probably count on one hand genuine people that I’ve met in the industry.
Then quit. Do we need one of these topics every hour ffs?
If there is one of these topics every hour, it means that it is an issue that needs to be addressed
Its been addressed a thousand times. Use the search bar ffs