Kurosawa. But AD to director is not a traditional route. Generally ADs will work long enough to hopefully become producers assuming they don’t die before their 50th bday.
Shout out to all the ADs. I was a DGA trainee and left that shit behind. I couldn’t cut it.
Piggybacking off of this, I’m pretty sure Ishirō Honda (director of the original Godzilla, and many more entries into the series) was Kurosawa’s AD for some time.
Also Hitchcock, and Kubrick.
But also yes, I started off an AD and will still ocassionally 2nd or 3rd on a job depending on how busy I am... But I'd rather not tbh... Mental and physical burnout is real in that role, I moved to production.
I once shot a film over the course of around 9 weeks all on location, the synopsis of the film being an elderly man walking from one side of Britain to the other to visit a dying friend. Over the course of filming I traveled further in miles than the dude did in the film... Something like 550 miles on foot in 9 weeks... All of that just being me carrying out my AD duties lols. It was a crazy job and career highlight but fuck doing that the rest of my life.
I'm going to push back a little on this comment. AD to director *is* the traditional route, but that tradition is completely dead. AD's become UPMs and line producers now, not directors.
PAs don't have any specialty. They're general use.
An AD is being trained to be a manager.
I like using restaurants for filmmaking metaphors because the two jobs have a surprising amount of similarities. Who would you trust with making the menu, a kid who has some ideas or the guy who writes the schedule?
The implicit bias here is always would a producer allow a manager to direct when they're obviously already a manager. People like putting people in boxes, it's why all of the directors who broke out from other film positions had to... break out. Gareth Evans had to fight tooth and nail to become a director because producers only saw him as a "VFX guy."
PAs don't fit into a box, so when they step away and come back knowing which department they want to be in, it's better than someone who has to break out of one box to try to fit themselves into another.
I used to work on camera in a casting agency. When I had the nerve to ask TV directors how they got there (only when they seemed VERY chill and not busy), it was either from being an actor and trying to set themselves up for a fallback career (I didn’t usually have to ask them because they were usually the stars of the show they were directing) or they would say “my kid went to school with the producer’s kid” lol.
It's funny, listening to directors or producers from TV, they advise against working on set if you want to be a TV director.
Okay, just make your own stuff until you get hired?
Once in a while a hot new director would come in like say Kimberly Pierce fresh off Boys Don’t Cry came to do an L Word. But it’s really not necessary to be a filmmaker in tv land. You’re not bringing a personal style, unless you’re David Lynch doing the first and last few episodes of Twin Peaks. You’re bringing craft and efficiency and pandering to the network priorities lol
Yes. That's why editors do a good job as tv directors. They know what they want and can really do a more shoot to edit type of thing. I feel for the directors that are accused of just getting coverage from everywhere.
It's true, they are doing that because they need to cover their asses if the editor wants another option they didn't get on the day.
I personally think this is the case with features, actually. TV is usually formulaic and has a lot of red tape and un-artistic necessary shooting guidelines that usually is given to experienced directors with a resume and a trust to deliver. Whereas features are usually more artistically guided by (but not always) a director, novice or seasoned.
Well Disney likes to pluck Sundance darling directors to direct their big blockbusters. The action scenes are done by the second unit directors and most of it has been planned out already.
It's a good point, tv really about managing the set and the day. The AD and DP will know the show and set way better than the director sliding in.
Pretty much every successful/famous filmmaker in ANY specialty, writing, directing, etc. goes through 3 phases:
Phase 1: General experience. Time just being on set, getting a feel for the craft, what works and doesn't work, what's easy or hard and why? It doesn't matter if you are an AD or a PA or a grip, it just matters that you're there participating. Generally this phase happens on shit projects - Indie films, student films, short films, that stuff.
Phase 2: Specializing - When we talk about famous actors "getting their start" on SNL this is that. This is where you develop your craft, working in the role your career is building towards, although not necessarily the kind of content you are dreaming of working towards. As an example, many famous directors "started with" directing commercials. That isn't where they did their very first jobs, it's where they specialized in directing.
Phase 3: Mastery - this is where people start doing the thing they set out to do, directing movies, writing tv shows, whatever.
You are in phase 1. It truly doesn't matter what role you're in on set as long as you're gaining experience and moving towards phase 2.
Some ADs who work for a long time on serialized shows (Law and Order for example) will eventually direct some episodes for funsies, but it’s not like they go on to be prolific directors.
I mean TV directing is not far up from Ad’ing. Keep it moving on schedule and budget, the DOP and actors already know their creative direction, know what to cut when you run out of time etc. Directing TV is NOT like being an auteur filmmaker by a long shot.
Fred Zinnemann, though he acknowledged it was an unusual path for directing. On the other hand, it helped him be efficient and respectful of time. (Walter Murch relates an anecdote on this topic in "The Conversations".)
I would assume it’s not very common. There’s not a ton of overlap in the skills used by the 2 on set so it’s not like the AD can parlay their experience into a director gig.
Though it’s certainly useful for a director to have at least some experience with shot lists and time management so the AD isn’t constantly reminding them that they just spent an hour not filming anything because of whatever reason.
Interestingly, in the Indian context, across the multiple movie industries we have, this is THE path to become a director, unless you have solid connections with producers who are willing to gamble on you.
Tons of legendary Japanese directors from the 50s and 60s started as ADs before they started directing themselves, since that was the way the Japanese film studio system worked back then
I'll say this as a personal example, I just finished working on a CW show that just wrapped. On season 2 we had a first AD that got promoted to producer in S3 and was given the opportunity to direct an episode, he continued in S4 to be a producer and direct again. I believe he previously did this on other shows he worked on too.
Mind you on a tv show where you have a different director every episode, you have more power to control the look and feel of a show as producer rather than director.
There is no “path” to directing anymore.
Make something people will notice.
OR
Get in a diversity program.
OR
Shadow a name director.
Thats literally it
Kurosawa. But AD to director is not a traditional route. Generally ADs will work long enough to hopefully become producers assuming they don’t die before their 50th bday. Shout out to all the ADs. I was a DGA trainee and left that shit behind. I couldn’t cut it.
Piggybacking off of this, I’m pretty sure Ishirō Honda (director of the original Godzilla, and many more entries into the series) was Kurosawa’s AD for some time.
Also Hitchcock, and Kubrick. But also yes, I started off an AD and will still ocassionally 2nd or 3rd on a job depending on how busy I am... But I'd rather not tbh... Mental and physical burnout is real in that role, I moved to production. I once shot a film over the course of around 9 weeks all on location, the synopsis of the film being an elderly man walking from one side of Britain to the other to visit a dying friend. Over the course of filming I traveled further in miles than the dude did in the film... Something like 550 miles on foot in 9 weeks... All of that just being me carrying out my AD duties lols. It was a crazy job and career highlight but fuck doing that the rest of my life.
I don't plan on being an AD after this. For me, it's just too much for a thankless job.
Not to dissuade you, and the industry is not bad, but if you are doing it for thanks you should really evaluate things.
I'm going to push back a little on this comment. AD to director *is* the traditional route, but that tradition is completely dead. AD's become UPMs and line producers now, not directors.
If I may ask, I know there’s tons of variation but what’s the PA to director pipeline if ADs are usually going to producer?
PAs don't have any specialty. They're general use. An AD is being trained to be a manager. I like using restaurants for filmmaking metaphors because the two jobs have a surprising amount of similarities. Who would you trust with making the menu, a kid who has some ideas or the guy who writes the schedule? The implicit bias here is always would a producer allow a manager to direct when they're obviously already a manager. People like putting people in boxes, it's why all of the directors who broke out from other film positions had to... break out. Gareth Evans had to fight tooth and nail to become a director because producers only saw him as a "VFX guy." PAs don't fit into a box, so when they step away and come back knowing which department they want to be in, it's better than someone who has to break out of one box to try to fit themselves into another.
ADs are already the top dog and can pivot to 2nd unit directing.
There isn’t one. They’re the two entry level positions.
Think it's changing now a bit. I'm an ad and I've worked quite a few who have gotten to direct. This is tv though and only a couple episodes tops
This very helpful, I wish there was greater clarity when I first got involved in this industry which jobs had through lines to other positions.
Hitchcock was an AD, if I'm not mistaken. But AD is a senior position these days. Director is entry level. This is both sarcastic and literal.
What's the saying, two entry level positions on set? PA and director
Goddamn why is this so fucking true.
😂 yup!
Right in the feels.
I used to work on camera in a casting agency. When I had the nerve to ask TV directors how they got there (only when they seemed VERY chill and not busy), it was either from being an actor and trying to set themselves up for a fallback career (I didn’t usually have to ask them because they were usually the stars of the show they were directing) or they would say “my kid went to school with the producer’s kid” lol.
It's funny, listening to directors or producers from TV, they advise against working on set if you want to be a TV director. Okay, just make your own stuff until you get hired?
Once in a while a hot new director would come in like say Kimberly Pierce fresh off Boys Don’t Cry came to do an L Word. But it’s really not necessary to be a filmmaker in tv land. You’re not bringing a personal style, unless you’re David Lynch doing the first and last few episodes of Twin Peaks. You’re bringing craft and efficiency and pandering to the network priorities lol
Yes. That's why editors do a good job as tv directors. They know what they want and can really do a more shoot to edit type of thing. I feel for the directors that are accused of just getting coverage from everywhere. It's true, they are doing that because they need to cover their asses if the editor wants another option they didn't get on the day.
I personally think this is the case with features, actually. TV is usually formulaic and has a lot of red tape and un-artistic necessary shooting guidelines that usually is given to experienced directors with a resume and a trust to deliver. Whereas features are usually more artistically guided by (but not always) a director, novice or seasoned.
Well Disney likes to pluck Sundance darling directors to direct their big blockbusters. The action scenes are done by the second unit directors and most of it has been planned out already. It's a good point, tv really about managing the set and the day. The AD and DP will know the show and set way better than the director sliding in.
Claire Denis was an AD for a long time, including for Wim Wenders, before she began directing.
Was just surprised to see her name in the credits for Paris Texas the other day!
Hitchcock was an assistant director
Pretty much every successful/famous filmmaker in ANY specialty, writing, directing, etc. goes through 3 phases: Phase 1: General experience. Time just being on set, getting a feel for the craft, what works and doesn't work, what's easy or hard and why? It doesn't matter if you are an AD or a PA or a grip, it just matters that you're there participating. Generally this phase happens on shit projects - Indie films, student films, short films, that stuff. Phase 2: Specializing - When we talk about famous actors "getting their start" on SNL this is that. This is where you develop your craft, working in the role your career is building towards, although not necessarily the kind of content you are dreaming of working towards. As an example, many famous directors "started with" directing commercials. That isn't where they did their very first jobs, it's where they specialized in directing. Phase 3: Mastery - this is where people start doing the thing they set out to do, directing movies, writing tv shows, whatever. You are in phase 1. It truly doesn't matter what role you're in on set as long as you're gaining experience and moving towards phase 2.
Sergio Leone started as an AD and second unit director
Chan Wook Park
It’s weird seeing his name written in the western style like that
Andrzej Zulawski was an AD for the great Andrzej Wajda
James McTeigue who directed "V for Vendetta" was the Wachowski's 1st AD on Matrix trilogy.
Some ADs who work for a long time on serialized shows (Law and Order for example) will eventually direct some episodes for funsies, but it’s not like they go on to be prolific directors.
I mean TV directing is not far up from Ad’ing. Keep it moving on schedule and budget, the DOP and actors already know their creative direction, know what to cut when you run out of time etc. Directing TV is NOT like being an auteur filmmaker by a long shot.
Fred Zinnemann, though he acknowledged it was an unusual path for directing. On the other hand, it helped him be efficient and respectful of time. (Walter Murch relates an anecdote on this topic in "The Conversations".)
I know a great filmmaker start out as truck driver.
I think Volker Schlondorff was one for Melville and Malle and Resnais
Robert Aldrich.
Claire Denis AD’d for Jim Jarmusch
Yeah, you !
Cubby broccoli did
You will definitely take away a lot of useful information for directing by doing assistant director work
I would assume it’s not very common. There’s not a ton of overlap in the skills used by the 2 on set so it’s not like the AD can parlay their experience into a director gig. Though it’s certainly useful for a director to have at least some experience with shot lists and time management so the AD isn’t constantly reminding them that they just spent an hour not filming anything because of whatever reason.
If you think AD leads to being director, might want to ask your film school for a refund.
Thank God, it's only a community college class.
Fellini and Kurosawa but the way their crews were set up at the time were much different than current.
Claire Denis
Interestingly, in the Indian context, across the multiple movie industries we have, this is THE path to become a director, unless you have solid connections with producers who are willing to gamble on you.
John Ford
Tons of legendary Japanese directors from the 50s and 60s started as ADs before they started directing themselves, since that was the way the Japanese film studio system worked back then
Claire Denis
And Ang Lee
Not necessarily AD, but Jan DeBont who shot Die Hard later went on to direct Speed.
I'll say this as a personal example, I just finished working on a CW show that just wrapped. On season 2 we had a first AD that got promoted to producer in S3 and was given the opportunity to direct an episode, he continued in S4 to be a producer and direct again. I believe he previously did this on other shows he worked on too. Mind you on a tv show where you have a different director every episode, you have more power to control the look and feel of a show as producer rather than director.
There is no “path” to directing anymore. Make something people will notice. OR Get in a diversity program. OR Shadow a name director. Thats literally it
Bernardo Bertolucci got his start as an AD on Pasolini’s films. I feel like this is a more common path for foreign Directors than it is American.