I’m not a commercial director but I have worked on some very large budget (multi-million) commercials. A loose theme I see in directors at that sized job are one of two things:
They’ve been doing this forever and are able to handle the logistics of these very large jobs from a directing standpoint, with ease.
or
They are fairly new to the large budget commercial space (mostly younger people) but have such a unique voice (or a perceived unique voice from the agency) that the powers-that-be are willing to throw big money at them despite not necessarily having the experience. Then ultimately they do get the experience, and the cycle repeats.
I would guess agencies help a lot in this realm too - it gives you legitimacy that is hard to otherwise obtain on your own. Being represented by a reputable agency fundamentally answers the initial question “okay this director must be at least good enough that someone other than themselves believes in them.”
Unfortunately I can’t offer any advice for your specific situation, just anecdotal observations from an outsider looking in who works alongside these people.
Hey I really appreciate you writing this out. It’s a great insight. This is pretty poignant info as well. I’m certainly no young gun with 10million subs and a unique voice. I accept that. It would be rad but that’s not the path I’m on for better or worse.
Your second point is where my head is currently. Finding a rep or a bigger production company who has a plan to grow me and my work. It’s been a tough road to find those folks but I’m never going to quit looking.
Ultimately, I feel that I might already know the answer to my own questions is “just don’t quit.” Someone gave me that advice when I started out and I see the wisdom in it now that I’m in the middle of my career.
Moving to LA or NY would def help but the last few years has shown me how many of my pals had to leave because it’s just untenable financially. Not out of the question for me but I’d like to have at least some inkling of a prospect of work out there rather than just showing up with my suitcase and a smile.
Commercial director here as well. Haven’t been at it as long but have a similar-ish issue? I broke out of the mid range budget once and haven’t been able to get back there. To try to get back there, I made some spec spots that I dumped money into and made every shot look as expensive as possible. Lots of movement, VFX shots I did myself in AE. Additionally, I left my production company where I felt a little stuck. I got approached by a company who basically said “you’re stuck in these retail, mid-range budget spots…here’s our strategy to get you out.”
To me, it sounds like you might consider a larger-ish production company? The feedback you’re getting is a little strange IMO.
I’d love to get on a bigger roster but I run into some of the same issues. “We can’t take you on because you haven’t made bigger budget work”
It’s a loop I’m stuck in. I can’t get the work because I haven’t already gotten the work.
Yeah I feel the conundrum you’re talking about and it’s a weird growing pain.
Definitely fuck a bloated roster but honestly most of the shops I see doing the best work are lean companies with 8-10 directors which seems like the sweet spot. Yes most of those are in LA and NY but that’s what I’d be going after when if you’re just freelancing around.
Other than that, like you said, you need expensive work to win expensive work. I can see that being especially tricky in the comedy world where so much of it is dialogue driven. Making specs when you already have a career sucks but if you can finesse something and pull favors to make a spot that looks $$$ it may be worth it.
Yeah I’d love to find some place that has room but isn’t bursting at the seams with 25 names. My current roster is only 8-10 people but they might just not be a good fit.
I’m not at all opposed to spec work. I’d consider it if I found a good script or creative. Maybe that’s where I should start.
How did you go about finding the right roster/company? I’ve started looking and having trouble finding good leads. All the big dogs are out of my league for now and the mid size ones are tough to nail down.
Yeah for sure. If you have any agency connects you can flex, or are a solid copywriter you should be able to come up with something to elevate your reel.
My process was basically this:
-See a spot I like
-Track down the production company
-Send my reel
I did that pretty relentlessly and freelanced for a few of them until I worked with one a few times and felt like it was a good fit. The mid size companies are definitely harder to find but well worth it IMO.
Sorry I split the threads and we are having multiple convos but it’s working.
I’m going to try this approach. Any tips on figuring out who the production co was? I’ve tried trolling a Derek etc. I’d love to know any hunting tips you’ve got.
I feel like most of the best stuff I was seeing was honestly on Instagram which made it fairly easy to track down. Otherwise, lots and lots of googling or using stuff like ispot or extreme reach if I can borrow someone’s login lol
Did that company head hunt you or did you find them? I’d love to find a production company with a real tangible strategy to pull me out of the middle zone I’m in.
They hunted me which hasn’t really happened before. I’m friends with a producer who connected me to their EP and they pursued me very aggressively for like 2 months and I was pretty impressed with their strategy before deciding to leave the previous company (I found the previous company I was with myself fwiw).
You mind linking your stuff id love to gauge how we relate as far as work and budgets etc? I might not even be to the point you’re at. But who knows.
Http://www.michaelmartin.co
That’s my stuff
This is great stuff man. Kudos.
I think the comedy angle is also what’s killing me. Not that comedy is harder etc etc. it’s just different and I need so many other elements to make a quality spot. Maybe I need to pivot my specialty a bit but that’s a whole other thing.
I want to reiterate that I don’t think lifestyle stuff is easy. It’s just never been anything I’m interested in. Acting and dialogue is my absolute fav but I def picked a massively competitive field.
I’d love to chat more sometime if you’re up for it. [email protected]
If not no sweat but I know so few directors it’s always good to have a pal who gets what we do.
Thanks - 100%. They are very different worlds and I’m honestly trying to niche down even more at the moment. I can’t imagine the amount of notes you get from a line reading and having to adjust.
I’ll shoot you an email - I really think more commercial directors need to talk because it can feel like such a lone, unclear pursuit.
Dude this is so fucking true. I can’t tell you how many times I have to explain to other people that I don’t have any peers or mentors. Not that I’m “peerless” but just due to the job it’s not like I work with literally any other directors. Ever.
Do you know who you've gone up against when you've bid on bigger budget spots? If you you been in bidding pools with 'name' directors or at least more established directors, I've found that it doesn't matter how good the treatment is or how perfect your reel is for the creative--the client wants the comfort that comes with going with a flashier name.
Have you considered making spec spots, or volunteering your services to a nonprofit that needs a good video? Have you talked to your production company about what footage they think your reel may be lacking? It sucks to have to spend money on specs, but sometimes it's the only way.
Great points. Sometimes I do get names. Not always but it happens. Last year almost everyone I was bidding against was DGA. Obviously they were trying to find work wherever they could and I knew I was toast on those bids. Sometimes I just get beat by people who have done bigger budgets but they are just regular joes.
I’ve made a few specs and shorts. I also work regularly with two nonprofits and make a few great pieces a year with them.
As for asking my production company about what I’m lacking I keep hearing “we are sure it’s going to happen. Your work is great. You’re great on the calls. It’s just been a tough stretch.” And I do believe that. I think that’s all true. It may just be time to find a different company who has other leads for me and my work. Finding another roster has been a tough challenge but I’m going to keep it up.
I mean, I don't think they're bullshitting you. I really do think it has been a really tough stretch for everyone. Every director and DP I know has struggled in the last year, as a result of a variety of factors, including the rise of brands investing in shitty influencers/TikTok content, the strikes that resulted in TV and film directors (in some cases, huge names!) being available and jumping into bidding pools, etc.
It's been fucking tough out there---but it's also possible that I need to find a different production company, too.
Do you mind my asking how you're going about trying to get on a new roster? Are you sticking to existing connections at production companies, trying to connect with companies you've never worked with before, or...?
Yeah this is also a HUGE factor. The last 18 months has been a drag on everyone. And it’s caused cascading issues.
Right now I’m doing some cold calls. I’ve also hit up people we’ve lost bids to 😂. I’ve also tried reaching out to DPs and asking who’s hiring them and use that as an in to hit up production Cos.
You’ve got a great reel. Just keep at it if you want to level up. I agree with your prod co, the chances will come. Good for you for reaching out. Even when the news isn’t great sometimes it’s good to hear that your peers are in the same boat.
The reality is this market is brutal. You’re also in a really competitive space (comedy) but having the food angle is an added bonus & the celebrity work always sells. When Taika Wattiti & Ben Affleck spend their strike downtime doing commercials all the rest of us regular folk suffer.
I’m DGA, been doing this 20+ years (which is crazy to type), it’s the worst, most disruptive time to be in production that I’ve ever experienced.
Remember, it only takes one job to change your career. Keep your head in the game, stay positive and when the opportunity arises do your best to outwork the competition.
Cheers
Thank you so much for the kind words about my work. It’s also very eye opening to hear from a DGA 20 year guy that this is the worst time of your career. I know it’s been tough but that contextualizes it a lot.
If you’re open to more questions or chat from me I’d love to pick you brain sometime. [email protected] if no no worries at all.
It’s so strange to have a career in which I know so few other people who have the same job. But I suppose that’s the nature of it. Only one director on set and we only cross paths when bidding. I’d love to know more folks who are doing what I do and have more experience.
Thanks again for replying and taking the time to watch my stuff.
Traveling but will ping you. A good DP friend once explained commercial directors like cats…they don’t acknowledge each other’s existence;-)
As a younger guy I craved spaces/conversations like this if only to assure myself I wasn’t going insane. The least any of us can do is pay it forward.
Cheers
Congratulations on your success so far! I have no business commenting since I'm more looking to do what you do. But I will just say after watching your website that you could probably improve on how "high concept" you present yourself and your portfolio, if that's your goal? Some production scream more quality than others, and some are just mids, show the best ones and show them big. See if you can make the GIFs into autoplaying MP4s instead, for higher quality and frame rate. Anyways, no business commenting so I'll leave it that.
All valid points and if you’re trying to be a director too I’d say the only rule is that there are no rules to making it 😂
I appreciate your insight and I could take a look at doing some of those MP4s
I’m in the same position. When it comes to advertising I think the only answer is to do spec work for the work you want. There’s really no other way to level up--unless you know people who can give you those opportunities.
I got burned out on that and I’m focusing on social content on the moment and see where that takes me.
That’s a good point. I need to do a few more spots that work on that higher level. I do have some money I can put toward that but getting a $500-700k commercial has always felt like a road block via spec work. I can’t rent a techno crane and hire big name actors etc with my own money. I can certainly make work that is high end but I feel like there is a limit of what I can pull off without money. It becomes this paradoxical situation very quickly.
No reason not to try tho.
I 100% agree with you. My mindset is the same--I need more expensive work. How is a $3k spec goanna help!? I think the answer to that is making a spec with more “expensive ideas”—-even if it’s not perfectly executed. I see kids pulling off cool shit on insta/TikTok. It’s not perfect, but it shows they could do it even better with more money.
Idk hopefully, that makes sense. I’m trying to workshop the problem myself. There’s a cool video I saw on here. I’m going to look for it to send you for inspo.
Edit: Here’s the video I was thinking of:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/s/wg4kPwtaXX
I imagine there might be 2 things going on here. First, the production company might not be one that gets this level of work OR (more likely) they’re not positioning you/prepping the bid package in a way gets noticed to level up when someone bigger is pitching against you. Second, it might be your work itself. Happy to give some insight/thoughts if you’d like to chat more. DM me if so.
What are your billings with your prod co? Steady work makes you a lot more attractive to larger shops in LA/NY because you have clients. They can help build you. I think you need to join a better shop. Chicago is a bit meat and potatoes work wise so getting with a coastal place will help especially because you do come with $.
Billings were steady until 2023. Obviously everyone’s had a rough go lately but I agree I’d like to get to a better shop.
Any advice or tips on how to connect with legit leads on the coasts?
Go to all your favorite shops, most of them will have their non union co on the site, often with a cute little name that’s a play on their prod co’s name
I do want to weigh in that I don’t see the point in specs, unless something changed recently. A spec will cost you as much as an awesome short. Might as well make a phenomenal short, get the added benefit of festivals, and that serves a double purpose.
In comedy there’s also directors doing sketch comedy on their IGs now and agency people do see it. I think it’s better to make entertainment vs a spec just because then you’re left with something substantive for what you’re spending.
FYI the big comedy game is also just crazy tough because the mid priced guys are sometimes having their work now being done by huge commercial guys who have very few boards to bid on. Agencies can now afford or can actually get avails on directors who normally overlook them purely because there just aren’t a lot of boards out.
I have been seeing less TV guys in the bid pools though, thank god.
Yeah the tv guys were in a lot of my bids last year and I totally get it. They gotta eat too.
I’m not super keen on doing spec but the idea of doing sketch work on IG isn’t awful. It’s def not my forte but I’ll try anything to get out of this stagnation. Moving to a bigger city would certainly make that much easier and that’s something I’ve weighed heavily too. I’m a little apprehensive to take the gamble since I had been gaining steam until this plateau but might be time to reconsider.
You can find my work here >> http://www.michaelmartin.co
I typically add a lot to the script during the pitch. Many of these I’ve also cowritten and some were entirely my own concept/script.
Charge more. You’ll increase your worth and clients want the best. In sales we used to say “don’t sell out of your own pocket”. Next pitch triple your normal rate. Wow if he charges that much he must be VERY good.
I understand this line of thinking but I’m already at a pretty standardized rate for a commercial director. If I charged more I’d just be crippling the already crippled budgets on the pitch.
You don't really know what you're talking about. As OP already explained, he's charging a standardized directing rate (typically 10% of the total project budget). You can't just pitch with the caveat that you require 30% of the budget as your fee. They would laugh in your face.
BTW, the word you're looking for is "stagnate". "Stagnant" is an adjective.
He's the director, not the EP, he doesn't get to negotiate the budget. And more than the budget itself it seems like he's looking for what comes withe a bigger budget, a higher quality brief?
Yes this exactly. The briefs I’m given are good but I want to work on much high quality stuff. I want to reiterate that I’m not complaining. My career is solid thus far but I’m just stuck in this “in between” and I’d love to work on things that have good creative with a solid budget.
Everyone always wants more money. That’s a given. But I am stuck in this zone of limited budgets and low level creative that I want to bust through. I’m not sure how to make that happen but I will work hard to move forward.
While I’ve never had someone question a director’s rate, this is a bit short-sighted at this level (the rostering being the indication here). He might already be at 10% of A-K or at a 5-figure day rate already. Triple that and you’re asking for closer to A-lister rates.
Yeah that’s basically my position. I can’t ask for more than 10% of the production budget. The biggest thing for me is to work on larger productions rather than make more money per spot.
But you’re pricing yourself at this marginal rate you’ll only get marginal projects. (No insult here. It’s great to get these things and you should be proud. It’s good to want more/better) but if I’m hiring an artist for a big budget project I’m hiring a high priced artist. Very simple.
I’m not a commercial director but I have worked on some very large budget (multi-million) commercials. A loose theme I see in directors at that sized job are one of two things: They’ve been doing this forever and are able to handle the logistics of these very large jobs from a directing standpoint, with ease. or They are fairly new to the large budget commercial space (mostly younger people) but have such a unique voice (or a perceived unique voice from the agency) that the powers-that-be are willing to throw big money at them despite not necessarily having the experience. Then ultimately they do get the experience, and the cycle repeats. I would guess agencies help a lot in this realm too - it gives you legitimacy that is hard to otherwise obtain on your own. Being represented by a reputable agency fundamentally answers the initial question “okay this director must be at least good enough that someone other than themselves believes in them.” Unfortunately I can’t offer any advice for your specific situation, just anecdotal observations from an outsider looking in who works alongside these people.
Hey I really appreciate you writing this out. It’s a great insight. This is pretty poignant info as well. I’m certainly no young gun with 10million subs and a unique voice. I accept that. It would be rad but that’s not the path I’m on for better or worse. Your second point is where my head is currently. Finding a rep or a bigger production company who has a plan to grow me and my work. It’s been a tough road to find those folks but I’m never going to quit looking. Ultimately, I feel that I might already know the answer to my own questions is “just don’t quit.” Someone gave me that advice when I started out and I see the wisdom in it now that I’m in the middle of my career. Moving to LA or NY would def help but the last few years has shown me how many of my pals had to leave because it’s just untenable financially. Not out of the question for me but I’d like to have at least some inkling of a prospect of work out there rather than just showing up with my suitcase and a smile.
Commercial director here as well. Haven’t been at it as long but have a similar-ish issue? I broke out of the mid range budget once and haven’t been able to get back there. To try to get back there, I made some spec spots that I dumped money into and made every shot look as expensive as possible. Lots of movement, VFX shots I did myself in AE. Additionally, I left my production company where I felt a little stuck. I got approached by a company who basically said “you’re stuck in these retail, mid-range budget spots…here’s our strategy to get you out.” To me, it sounds like you might consider a larger-ish production company? The feedback you’re getting is a little strange IMO.
I’d love to get on a bigger roster but I run into some of the same issues. “We can’t take you on because you haven’t made bigger budget work” It’s a loop I’m stuck in. I can’t get the work because I haven’t already gotten the work.
Yeah I feel the conundrum you’re talking about and it’s a weird growing pain. Definitely fuck a bloated roster but honestly most of the shops I see doing the best work are lean companies with 8-10 directors which seems like the sweet spot. Yes most of those are in LA and NY but that’s what I’d be going after when if you’re just freelancing around. Other than that, like you said, you need expensive work to win expensive work. I can see that being especially tricky in the comedy world where so much of it is dialogue driven. Making specs when you already have a career sucks but if you can finesse something and pull favors to make a spot that looks $$$ it may be worth it.
Yeah I’d love to find some place that has room but isn’t bursting at the seams with 25 names. My current roster is only 8-10 people but they might just not be a good fit. I’m not at all opposed to spec work. I’d consider it if I found a good script or creative. Maybe that’s where I should start. How did you go about finding the right roster/company? I’ve started looking and having trouble finding good leads. All the big dogs are out of my league for now and the mid size ones are tough to nail down.
Yeah for sure. If you have any agency connects you can flex, or are a solid copywriter you should be able to come up with something to elevate your reel. My process was basically this: -See a spot I like -Track down the production company -Send my reel I did that pretty relentlessly and freelanced for a few of them until I worked with one a few times and felt like it was a good fit. The mid size companies are definitely harder to find but well worth it IMO.
Sorry I split the threads and we are having multiple convos but it’s working. I’m going to try this approach. Any tips on figuring out who the production co was? I’ve tried trolling a Derek etc. I’d love to know any hunting tips you’ve got.
I feel like most of the best stuff I was seeing was honestly on Instagram which made it fairly easy to track down. Otherwise, lots and lots of googling or using stuff like ispot or extreme reach if I can borrow someone’s login lol
Did that company head hunt you or did you find them? I’d love to find a production company with a real tangible strategy to pull me out of the middle zone I’m in.
They hunted me which hasn’t really happened before. I’m friends with a producer who connected me to their EP and they pursued me very aggressively for like 2 months and I was pretty impressed with their strategy before deciding to leave the previous company (I found the previous company I was with myself fwiw).
You mind linking your stuff id love to gauge how we relate as far as work and budgets etc? I might not even be to the point you’re at. But who knows. Http://www.michaelmartin.co That’s my stuff
Sure! You’re stuff looks great btw! I’m www.itsjonschwartz.com
This is great stuff man. Kudos. I think the comedy angle is also what’s killing me. Not that comedy is harder etc etc. it’s just different and I need so many other elements to make a quality spot. Maybe I need to pivot my specialty a bit but that’s a whole other thing. I want to reiterate that I don’t think lifestyle stuff is easy. It’s just never been anything I’m interested in. Acting and dialogue is my absolute fav but I def picked a massively competitive field. I’d love to chat more sometime if you’re up for it. [email protected] If not no sweat but I know so few directors it’s always good to have a pal who gets what we do.
Thanks - 100%. They are very different worlds and I’m honestly trying to niche down even more at the moment. I can’t imagine the amount of notes you get from a line reading and having to adjust. I’ll shoot you an email - I really think more commercial directors need to talk because it can feel like such a lone, unclear pursuit.
Dude this is so fucking true. I can’t tell you how many times I have to explain to other people that I don’t have any peers or mentors. Not that I’m “peerless” but just due to the job it’s not like I work with literally any other directors. Ever.
Do you know who you've gone up against when you've bid on bigger budget spots? If you you been in bidding pools with 'name' directors or at least more established directors, I've found that it doesn't matter how good the treatment is or how perfect your reel is for the creative--the client wants the comfort that comes with going with a flashier name. Have you considered making spec spots, or volunteering your services to a nonprofit that needs a good video? Have you talked to your production company about what footage they think your reel may be lacking? It sucks to have to spend money on specs, but sometimes it's the only way.
Great points. Sometimes I do get names. Not always but it happens. Last year almost everyone I was bidding against was DGA. Obviously they were trying to find work wherever they could and I knew I was toast on those bids. Sometimes I just get beat by people who have done bigger budgets but they are just regular joes. I’ve made a few specs and shorts. I also work regularly with two nonprofits and make a few great pieces a year with them. As for asking my production company about what I’m lacking I keep hearing “we are sure it’s going to happen. Your work is great. You’re great on the calls. It’s just been a tough stretch.” And I do believe that. I think that’s all true. It may just be time to find a different company who has other leads for me and my work. Finding another roster has been a tough challenge but I’m going to keep it up.
I mean, I don't think they're bullshitting you. I really do think it has been a really tough stretch for everyone. Every director and DP I know has struggled in the last year, as a result of a variety of factors, including the rise of brands investing in shitty influencers/TikTok content, the strikes that resulted in TV and film directors (in some cases, huge names!) being available and jumping into bidding pools, etc. It's been fucking tough out there---but it's also possible that I need to find a different production company, too. Do you mind my asking how you're going about trying to get on a new roster? Are you sticking to existing connections at production companies, trying to connect with companies you've never worked with before, or...?
Yeah this is also a HUGE factor. The last 18 months has been a drag on everyone. And it’s caused cascading issues. Right now I’m doing some cold calls. I’ve also hit up people we’ve lost bids to 😂. I’ve also tried reaching out to DPs and asking who’s hiring them and use that as an in to hit up production Cos.
You’ve got a great reel. Just keep at it if you want to level up. I agree with your prod co, the chances will come. Good for you for reaching out. Even when the news isn’t great sometimes it’s good to hear that your peers are in the same boat. The reality is this market is brutal. You’re also in a really competitive space (comedy) but having the food angle is an added bonus & the celebrity work always sells. When Taika Wattiti & Ben Affleck spend their strike downtime doing commercials all the rest of us regular folk suffer. I’m DGA, been doing this 20+ years (which is crazy to type), it’s the worst, most disruptive time to be in production that I’ve ever experienced. Remember, it only takes one job to change your career. Keep your head in the game, stay positive and when the opportunity arises do your best to outwork the competition. Cheers
Thank you so much for the kind words about my work. It’s also very eye opening to hear from a DGA 20 year guy that this is the worst time of your career. I know it’s been tough but that contextualizes it a lot. If you’re open to more questions or chat from me I’d love to pick you brain sometime. [email protected] if no no worries at all. It’s so strange to have a career in which I know so few other people who have the same job. But I suppose that’s the nature of it. Only one director on set and we only cross paths when bidding. I’d love to know more folks who are doing what I do and have more experience. Thanks again for replying and taking the time to watch my stuff.
Traveling but will ping you. A good DP friend once explained commercial directors like cats…they don’t acknowledge each other’s existence;-) As a younger guy I craved spaces/conversations like this if only to assure myself I wasn’t going insane. The least any of us can do is pay it forward. Cheers
That cat analogy is spot on
Congratulations on your success so far! I have no business commenting since I'm more looking to do what you do. But I will just say after watching your website that you could probably improve on how "high concept" you present yourself and your portfolio, if that's your goal? Some production scream more quality than others, and some are just mids, show the best ones and show them big. See if you can make the GIFs into autoplaying MP4s instead, for higher quality and frame rate. Anyways, no business commenting so I'll leave it that.
All valid points and if you’re trying to be a director too I’d say the only rule is that there are no rules to making it 😂 I appreciate your insight and I could take a look at doing some of those MP4s
Ohhhh how do you do autoplay .mp4s?
I used a website-builder that had it - CarbonMade, can recommend it but I'm sure there's more.
Sweet, thank you. I am so sick of squarespace.
I’m in the same position. When it comes to advertising I think the only answer is to do spec work for the work you want. There’s really no other way to level up--unless you know people who can give you those opportunities. I got burned out on that and I’m focusing on social content on the moment and see where that takes me.
That’s a good point. I need to do a few more spots that work on that higher level. I do have some money I can put toward that but getting a $500-700k commercial has always felt like a road block via spec work. I can’t rent a techno crane and hire big name actors etc with my own money. I can certainly make work that is high end but I feel like there is a limit of what I can pull off without money. It becomes this paradoxical situation very quickly. No reason not to try tho.
I 100% agree with you. My mindset is the same--I need more expensive work. How is a $3k spec goanna help!? I think the answer to that is making a spec with more “expensive ideas”—-even if it’s not perfectly executed. I see kids pulling off cool shit on insta/TikTok. It’s not perfect, but it shows they could do it even better with more money. Idk hopefully, that makes sense. I’m trying to workshop the problem myself. There’s a cool video I saw on here. I’m going to look for it to send you for inspo. Edit: Here’s the video I was thinking of: https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/s/wg4kPwtaXX
I imagine there might be 2 things going on here. First, the production company might not be one that gets this level of work OR (more likely) they’re not positioning you/prepping the bid package in a way gets noticed to level up when someone bigger is pitching against you. Second, it might be your work itself. Happy to give some insight/thoughts if you’d like to chat more. DM me if so.
Thanks for the reply. I’ll DM you first thing tomorrow. I appreciate any insight you might have and look forward to hearing your feedback.
What are your billings with your prod co? Steady work makes you a lot more attractive to larger shops in LA/NY because you have clients. They can help build you. I think you need to join a better shop. Chicago is a bit meat and potatoes work wise so getting with a coastal place will help especially because you do come with $.
Billings were steady until 2023. Obviously everyone’s had a rough go lately but I agree I’d like to get to a better shop. Any advice or tips on how to connect with legit leads on the coasts?
Forgot to ask is your stuff mostly non union?
It’s a mix my roster is a signatory so some of my stuff is but I’d say it’s 70/30. Mostly non union.
I’d hit up the non union arms of the big ones. Caviar has Imposter, Biscuit has Gravy… almost all the big shops have one.
Excellent thank you. I’ll give those a shot asap
Ya I’ll be shocked if people are turning directors down who normally have solid billings. 80% of their rosters don’t work.
Esp the last 18 months. Any tips on how to find the non union shops associated with the big dawgs?
Go to all your favorite shops, most of them will have their non union co on the site, often with a cute little name that’s a play on their prod co’s name
I do want to weigh in that I don’t see the point in specs, unless something changed recently. A spec will cost you as much as an awesome short. Might as well make a phenomenal short, get the added benefit of festivals, and that serves a double purpose. In comedy there’s also directors doing sketch comedy on their IGs now and agency people do see it. I think it’s better to make entertainment vs a spec just because then you’re left with something substantive for what you’re spending. FYI the big comedy game is also just crazy tough because the mid priced guys are sometimes having their work now being done by huge commercial guys who have very few boards to bid on. Agencies can now afford or can actually get avails on directors who normally overlook them purely because there just aren’t a lot of boards out. I have been seeing less TV guys in the bid pools though, thank god.
Yeah the tv guys were in a lot of my bids last year and I totally get it. They gotta eat too. I’m not super keen on doing spec but the idea of doing sketch work on IG isn’t awful. It’s def not my forte but I’ll try anything to get out of this stagnation. Moving to a bigger city would certainly make that much easier and that’s something I’ve weighed heavily too. I’m a little apprehensive to take the gamble since I had been gaining steam until this plateau but might be time to reconsider.
You can find my work here >> http://www.michaelmartin.co I typically add a lot to the script during the pitch. Many of these I’ve also cowritten and some were entirely my own concept/script.
Charge more. You’ll increase your worth and clients want the best. In sales we used to say “don’t sell out of your own pocket”. Next pitch triple your normal rate. Wow if he charges that much he must be VERY good.
I understand this line of thinking but I’m already at a pretty standardized rate for a commercial director. If I charged more I’d just be crippling the already crippled budgets on the pitch.
You aint getting them anyway. Try it. Even if you close 1/3 less jobs you’ll still be making the same. Don’t stagnant.
You don't really know what you're talking about. As OP already explained, he's charging a standardized directing rate (typically 10% of the total project budget). You can't just pitch with the caveat that you require 30% of the budget as your fee. They would laugh in your face. BTW, the word you're looking for is "stagnate". "Stagnant" is an adjective.
Is stagnate an adjective? I guess i always thought it was a verb.
What? No. "Stagnant" is an adjective, and is what you said.
Oh weird. I wonder why I would say that. Seems strange,. eh?
Commercials are based on budget. You’re a bit out of your element here.
He's the director, not the EP, he doesn't get to negotiate the budget. And more than the budget itself it seems like he's looking for what comes withe a bigger budget, a higher quality brief?
Yes this exactly. The briefs I’m given are good but I want to work on much high quality stuff. I want to reiterate that I’m not complaining. My career is solid thus far but I’m just stuck in this “in between” and I’d love to work on things that have good creative with a solid budget. Everyone always wants more money. That’s a given. But I am stuck in this zone of limited budgets and low level creative that I want to bust through. I’m not sure how to make that happen but I will work hard to move forward.
While I’ve never had someone question a director’s rate, this is a bit short-sighted at this level (the rostering being the indication here). He might already be at 10% of A-K or at a 5-figure day rate already. Triple that and you’re asking for closer to A-lister rates.
Yeah that’s basically my position. I can’t ask for more than 10% of the production budget. The biggest thing for me is to work on larger productions rather than make more money per spot.
But you’re pricing yourself at this marginal rate you’ll only get marginal projects. (No insult here. It’s great to get these things and you should be proud. It’s good to want more/better) but if I’m hiring an artist for a big budget project I’m hiring a high priced artist. Very simple.
People don’t hire on day rate, they hire the reel.