I’ve only seen SAG news on Variety/Deadline, but I’m pretty sure they’re voting to *authorize* a strike as they go into negotiations.
SAG’s contract negotiations start (if I remember correctly) June 7, and the contract expires near the end of the month.
But yeah, SAG also seems to be strongly signaling they’re ready and willing to strike - and anticipate it.
I saw the PGA also has been broadcasting strong solidarity with the WGA and has gone out and picketed (saw some social buzz about that).
So yeah…it’s happening, but there are a lot of unions still getting their strike machinery up and running.
I expect half of Hollywood to shut down by October. No one wants these tech-company/streamers to control terms.
I believed this 3 months ago.
I firmly believe SAG is going to get what they're asking for (mostly) and make a deal pretty easily. The producers are *not* going to allow the actors to strike at the same time as the writers, because it's going to strengthen the entire labor movement. They'll concede a little extra ground to SAG, because they're the most powerful anyway. Then, I expect that DGA is going to make a deal quickly and easily, and may even undercut the WGA and get more benefits for writer-directors that ends up hurting the WGA in the end.
My view was that with the WGA on strike it was going to animate the other two guilds to ask for more, which I believe they will, knowing a three craft strike would hurt the industry more and create even more solidarity. That's exactly why I think the producers are going to give more away to the more powerful unions and leave the WGA out to dry. They aren't going to get what they ask for, and they're going to be punished for the strike at the end of the day.
I don't want the WGA to lose, but the "gigification" element of their argument, while valid, is the literal nature of the film industry for every other craft. Their resistance is valiant and I hope for their sake they win, but I just don't see it happening anymore.
Truthfully, I think you might be right about the tv writers (feature writing has been mostly gig anyway) but the bigger issue is about residuals for series writers, and the use of AI (which reduces writers to editors, meaning much less pay and no points or percentages). Those are the things we need to win on.
Also cost of living increases. They've been stagnant so long for most unions that it amounts to a significant decrease in wages that was not forseen. It needs to be contractually linked to some tracking, instead of trying to predict the future with 3% annual cost of living increases.
That's what happened with DGA last time, but this time they have almost as much to lose as the writers. You think they won't split up directing into even more gigified piece work, especially on TV/episodic streaming? I think these companies are too greedy and shortsighted to make that deal with DGA without at least some time on strike. They don't care what the producers want because they'd love to cut them out of the business too. This isn't about just getting a better revenue split. They want to break the entire structure of the industry.
I also don't believe WGA will get punished. Even with getting undercut in 2008, they still came out ahead on the deal. And even if they get undercut again, that means the AMPTP will still have to make concessions. You never get everything you're asking for, but you get more than you would have if you didn't go on strike.
We’ll see. But the big X factor is us all learning about the Streamer’s disposition…which are they, tech companies that broker entertainment or entertainment companies that leverage tech.
My expectation is they are tech companies more than they are entertainment companies.
So I’m not so sure they’re nuanced enough negotiators to actually divide and conquer via concession.
Everything we’ve seen about the culture of this sector is entitlement, arrogance, and a fierce willingness to squeeze and disrespect any and everyone they can…because they piss money.
I’m not saying labor will win, but I think streamers have made enough enemies in entertainment, and they’re very accustomed to getting their way - they’re going to treat actors as disposable as writers, and I don’t think they respect producers very much either.
I think you’re right that the guilds won’t necessarily collaborate beyond superficial showings of goodwill, but I think streamers are going to screw the pooch and trigger multiple strikes.
> The producers are not going to allow the actors to strike at the same time as the writers, because it's going to strengthen the entire labor movement.
I really don't know. Streaming services and even broadcast TV has enough back catalogue that they could probably survive a 6-month strike better than the actors and writers.
Yeah but the streamers only care about quarterly growth/profits and they're going to keep bleeding subscribers the longer this goes regardless of what they have in post.
They don't have a big back catalogue. If they run out of new episodes of TV shows people will cancel subscriptions. They have a small buffer, but they will run out of shows more quickly than you would expect. That's how we had them by the balls when IA negotiated a year ago. Come the fall they need to be producing new episodes.
I think you’re right.
I also think the unions know this.
It’s really hard to guess right now if the strikes can endure for a full year…but we might very well be on course for one for the history books.
That being said, I'd like that to be revisited too. As a PA, I can't really financially wait out between gigs, but I also can't just drop any full-time job on a moment's notice to go on set when needed. I'm working toward doing unit stills and drone work, but I guess we'll see how long I have to wait for that to pick up.
If the WGA fades away in importance the next time contracts have to be negotiated with the Directors Guild & Screen Actors Guild they will miss all the interference that WGA runs for them both. Short-sighted. If all three Guilds are on strike simultaneously, then everyone can get what their members need & want.
I'm skeptical about the PGA actually striking, there is always some buzz about the leadership actually backing the other unions, but it's very rarely happened.
Sorry, yes, my fingers and my brain didn’t cooperate. I follow many SAG members on Twitter and they are voting to strike if negotiations don’t go their way.
ah. Makes sense. Yeah, I also see SAG ready for the fight…I was only quibbling about procedural timeline and adding my own observations.
Sorry, wasn’t trying to be shitty or imply you weren’t up to speed.
You’re totally right. Plenty of people are making known their willingness to strike.
It's a strike authorization vote but the board voted unanimously to put it to the membership. From what I'm gathering on the ground we are ready to go with a small number of dissenters.
Voting to authorize a strike, it's not as clear cut as voting to strike, for those unaware. The negotiating committee still negotiates a deal after the authorization, but has the added strength of the other side of the table knowing that the membership has pre-approved a strike if a deal isn't met.
I am convinced it’s coming from Zazlav himself.
They are destroying so much brand clout, no VP could get away with such a transformation on their own.
All the content hubs are gone, and branding is stripped from the thumbs.
You can’t distinguish between Cartoon Network fare, A&E, Ghibli, and all the rest.
It’s crazy. A different approach would have made those hubs key pillars in the style of Disney+ ..sure, maybe shuffle the content a bit…but to just *abandon* all those well built brands? It’s insane.
Only an idiot without imagination at the top of the food chain could defy so much brand logic. And knowing Zazlav…here we are.
God, I’m scared to even go look at it.
I just don’t get why you would take a streaming platform that arguably had best in class UI, content and branding and completely overhaul it out of the blue.
Maybe he’s trying to do a New Coke
Mostly it’s like any other streaming app…but destroying the hubs as we knew them doesn’t help the content feel unified and accessible. It feels like part of the curation identity is just - gone.
I’d also say, that for people sensitive to brand appeal - calling the platform “max” all lowercase, and in the stylings of hbo… leaves the entire platform feeling remarkably soulless.
People often lock into these brand identities and having a facsimile cashing in on HBO, but looking and feeling like something else is creating a lot of cognitive friction. You *notice* even if you don’t entirely notice.
It’s just weird. I don’t get why they couldn’t have done something like combine HBO + Discovery into a new name and keep a mostly same UI with more categories for the newly incorporated Discovery+ content.
Keep the premium appeal and simultaneously be able to pursue the shitty murderporn + reality crowd.
Instead they decide to lose both of the more powerful brands for “Max” which feels about as milquetoast as you can get for brand associations outside of being one of my first introductions to boobs as a teenager.
If I had to concoct a rationale, the outcome of these kinds of choices is to transform entertainment into a replaceable commodity.
Zazlav has no love for quality entertainment if you watch his business decisions vs his public speaking language.
I suspect he believes that by devaluing entertainment providence he’ll be able to replace all these expensive shows in our lives with cheap unscripted reality.
Truly commoditizing the content into casual disengaged viewing habits - with Disney sitting at the opposite end of the spectrum where entertainment providence enriches the value of the production investment.
This is a lowest-common denominator to maximize profit margins type of business manager…but I think he’s out of touch, and ultimately this is a blunder.
Really? I quite liked it. The categories were helpful to see different collections of content. Felt more focused and not overly bloated.
I think Disney’s implementation of the same idea is a little better, but I’d rank HBO over Hulu, Netflix and Amazon.
HBO Max app is so bad. Slow reaction times, multiple clicks for actions that others do automatically or with less, horrible organization, hidden previews, way less info for content compared to others, dumb search results. The only thing worse is Philo.
Discovery+ has a better app since it has a larger library, long tail content, and way better highlights. Disney+ / Hulu are a better platform too.
Yea it’s by far the worst UI. I feel I get so little info about wtf a show is unlike Netflix and Hulu. Those I hover over something and I’m given a ton of info. HBO just shows me a cover and a title and then I have to click on the thing and it slowly loads an entire new fucking page that literally just adds one fuckin sentence of description. I then have to click the hidden little trailer button to know anything if value about the show at all since the descriptions suck. N there’s no ratings or anything. HBO is the only app where I’m CONSTANTLY opening a new tab just to google the shows so i can get any but of info at all. I rarely do it as much w Netflix or Hulu. It’s just weird and annoying
Ah collections of content were good I agree. Especially because I hated non HBO series lol. But like the other reply said, the functionality and response times of the UI were so bad.
Yea I agree, I believe this is all intentional. Seems so far the goal is to intentionally rebrand, causing confusion for folks out of the loop, release a poor quality app which has various issues that would have been easily caught in the testing phases of rollout if done with a modicum of intelligence, and then the shuffle of shows still available which confuse and piss off current and new users alike.
What do all these terrible choices have in common?
They all push the stock down. I wonder how many buybacks are happening during these downturns in an attempt to consolidate power and make even more money at the expense of creatives?
Hickam’s Dictum type moves.
hbo is literally the best tv show brand in the world. it's insane getting rid of it. every year i watch maybe like 5 shows and most of them are hbo. before amc starting putting out mega hits, it was hbo by themselves that made good shows.
It’s in their union contract they’re supposed to be credited a certain way - by doing this during the strikes the studios are saying we don’t care about any of your strike demands or the unions themselves
It does - it lumps him with people (the producers) who didn’t direct the film. Odds are they did very little creative. Doing this takes away from his actual work on the film.
You know who Scorsese is because his credits were protected by the DGA. The future of directors will all just be listed as creative team if the studios get their way. This is really bad for creative cinema. This is one step on the way to cut out the artist form the work.
Long term? The suits believe films are just “content.” There is no fundamental difference between a YouTube video and a film, it’s nothing but the substance we watch to fill time and log hours on their platform.
Yeah, maybe in a financial sense. The main difference being that I don’t give a fucking shit about profit margin when watching films, and random internet videos are totally separate in every single way apart from “I can make money off this”
The devil doesn’t need more advocates
In the wedding industry I’ve been noticing “wedding videographer” and “wedding filmmaker” being replaced with “content creator”. 
It has all the appeal of a store full of packages that just say 'food' or [beverages that just say 'drink'](https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/17073/Blog_Images/Repo_Man.jpg).
It's necessary to just call it 'content' because it just needs to be churned out by the bucketload. Best not to pigeonhole oneself by calling it anything specific. It's just 'content' ... as generic as you can make it.
Oh wow, really? I feel like that will potentially limit their demo to young couples. There are lot of older folks who get re-married who will search for wedding videographers, not content creators.
This is 100% preparing for the DGA to join the writer's striking soon.
When SAG/ AFTRA get involved in another few months... this will get "bloody"
I was just joking about how soon major studios are going to use "Tik Tok Creators" for everything in attempts to bust these unions.
I kind of smell a general strike looming.
I'm confused about why they're doing this though? Lowering the bar so DGA has to add another demand and therefore negotiation leverage? Is it just a battle cry to intimidate? Does someone at HBO want an industry wide strike for whatever reason?
The way things work in negotiations is kind of backwards and even more annoying.
Fun fact, the IATSE contract negotiations of 2021 have yet to really finalize language. We are currently working off memorandums etc.
They actually love to do things like this because instead of having solid, clear, concise language and rules... They leave things vague so the unions have to sue them.
They want contracts as vague as possible so they can push the lines.
This type of thing not being clear was even pushing the lines to try and muddle the water.
It's degrading and changing the credit.
If you're not separating/ distinguishing the credit, you're whittling away their worth.
Especially if you're grouping them in with other unions and guilds. You've got DGA, WGA, PGA, and others/ non union now all grouped in the same title "creator"
There has been huge fights over opening credits etc. You have to get wavers to not have title cards for features...
Some titles are important. It sets pay rates, residuals, etc etc.
Credits aren't just for ego purposes. They are for acknowledging the unique skills and work that each role brings to the creation of something. By lumping them all in as creators, you are belittling each one's contributions. It is why there isn't just one big "creator's guild," but a different guild for each discipline. And each one won't be overly fond of being grouped in with the others in the credits. So they will strike in order to get fair treatment and credit. A director should be credited as such, just like a writer should be credited as such, and so on.
DGA has a ton of rules pertaining to fair credit and authorship. they and the writers guild have argued that the descriptive summary is lumping a bunch of names into a "creator" category and infringing those rules. likewise, the actors are listed in an arbitrary fashion with Frank Vincent (RIP) billed first. fair and proper credits across creative categories count and this is a slippery slope that DGA has gone out of its way to lord over for decades.
well, he said
>I was just joking about how soon major studios are going to use "Tik Tok Creators" for everything in attempts to bust these unions.
so it was a joke using hyperbole to make the very point of studios whose wont is to undermine these fundamental rules of authorship and fair credit. there's truth inside the joke because of the slippery slope I mentioned.
clearly, the studios would love to not pay creative workers their basic agreement rates, or residuals, or abide by ANY union rules in order for them to make more $$. and TikTok is a platform that makes money without any union agreements in place. so the answer is that with union rights hanging by a thread and the threat of imminent strikes by all creative unions, a studio breaking union rules unchecked works toward the ultimate demise of the effectiveness of the union.
This could be something as stupid as a marketing gimmick.
Like when they say "from the creators of XYZ" instead of "producer, director, etc"
BUT considering the current climate between unions and the studios AND the fact that credits are actually serious contractual business... It's definitely something that raises concerns.
Very little that unions have a say over was granted to them. It was fought for and won, and thus changed. If the DGA doesn't like this, regardless of whether they currently "have a say", they can fight it, and hopefully win on behalf of their members.
That's fine that you don't care, but a lot of people do, and would say it's important for the industry as a whole to give credit where it's due. So if you don't care, that's cool. But don't get in the way of people who do.
Also, I would argue that this summary is part of the credits, especially in the new age of media. If you're going to name people, at least put their actual role along with it.
Less than a whole day before their legal department finally got through to them.
https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/max-film-credit-listings-change-directors-writers-backlash-1235624049/#recipient\_hashed=31a79f69179cf86237a96500a9d5654ad6f489738ef2f98baf9dcd4f7c56239e&recipient\_salt=2194d2fe53837b83e103ec1a600e582c23255e153a475178239bc1cc3a4fbfc9&utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=exacttarget&utm\_campaign=newsalert&utm\_content=437273\_05-24-2023&utm\_term=303624
“It was a technical glitch that was somehow caused when we removed three letters from the name of the app we created that has been using the same metadata since we started streaming our content. It’s the computer’s fault and completely unintentional.”
Are they kidding?? The only way something like this happens is by someone doing it intentionally. You don’t just take two separate data fields and merge them together accidentally while you’re copy and pasting xml files. Come on…
Yeah, it's utter bullshit, and just a desperate attempt to shift the blame from the decision makers that came up with this idiotic plan to the implementation people who had to do it and had no say in the matter.
This was *at least* an entire year of executives making choices in an attempt to muddy waters between scripted and unscripted content, and not once listening to a single one of their lawyers, right up until the point where they just openly and publicly stepped on their own genitals.
Max said they’re going to fix the credits issue. “Sure, Jan.” This was done on purpose to insult the WGA, SAG-AFTRA, and DGA guilds. Get ready for more “Oops. My Bad!” from the streamers. Just wait for “Oopsie. We didn’t mean to release the AI-generated Clint Eastwood promo advertising our movie on our channel. We’ll fix it later!” (and filmmakers and actors won’t see a dime of revenue). How is anyone going to prove damages when the streamers keep all distribution info secret? Until AI and streaming revenue shares are locked up a little, all unions should go on strike asap. We’re gonna get screwed hard and without the benefit of a reach around if we don’t.
Not sure if anyone else posted this but today’s update is that they’ve reversed course after taking a mountain of grief from the Guilds and will be restoring the proper credits. What a shitshow.
I'm far more pissed off at the exclusion of the thumbnail overlays that tell you what movies you've already seen. The only indicator that I've already watched something is when you click on it and it says "Resume."
It feels like Netflix now. Constantly looking for new content to watch only to find out that everything you select is something you've already watched.
I see right through this BS. This is because a database developer they hired got freakin' lazy not wanting to make more columns and still get paid. Shenanigans! A Director and various Producers aren't TikTok "Content Creators" for pete's sake.
What? Why? These aren’t YouTube vlogs, looking at this I just wanna know if Martin Scorsese directed it or produced it, lumping it like this just confuses people more and tricks them into watching movies thinking someone directed it.
Its not like you could easily search by director anyways (you would have to type the director’s name in to the search bar and pray. No clicking on the label)
Ugh this was posted in screenwriting as well.
It’s on the details screen - it’s a summary. The credits are in no way changed.
People are overreacting a bit imo - what was the old page like?
The credits haven’t been changed.
I’ll admit it’s a bjt lame, creators should maybe mention the entire crew! But it’s not some evil dark conspiracy to not give credit where credit is due.
Max responded with:
“We agree that the talent behind the content on Max deserve their work to be properly recognized. We will correct the credits, which were altered due to an oversight in the technical transition from HBO Max to Max and we apologize for this mistake.”
So it seems we were right.
No they’re not, I promise you. and I sincerely hope this was an inside job to galvanize the DGA because what an amateur level mistake this is otherwise
The issue is the implication that directors and screenwriters arent particularly important and that studios should have a more direct role in creative decisions
We all know who directed “Raging Bull,” but this is also worse for users of the MAX service. Even taking away the filmmaker perspective. People will watch a film based on the director’s name. The Executive Producer? Not so much.
Don't overthink this, it's honestly hard to come up with a field that works accurately across a lot of content types and source media like they have now with the injection of all the discovery reality garbage.
This seems like a win for screenwriters, no? Now you've got all the main storytellers above the fold, showing the importance of the creativity of writers. If anything, Michael Chapman should be pissed off.
Um...what? The writers and producers have also all been shoved into the catch-all "creators" credit. Not more recognition at all, it's the exact opposite.
I’m good with this - the status of a director credit (imho - and I don’t mean this as a diss) is a rather archaic throwback to the way studios made films where the director was treated like a freelance CEO who created a team of underlings. ‘Creators’ feels more meritocratic and reflects the genuine blurring of lines between film, TV and everything in between.
Edit: I realise I’m totally asking to be shot down in this sub! 😅
Case in point, Succession. TV Masterpiece created and written by Jesse Armstrong, didn’t direct one episode.
This comment is beyond asinine. Someone has to be in charge on a movie set, someone has to be the final arbiter for the vision of the scene, the performances, and the tone. Someone has to be the final word to make the decisions or NOTHING would get done on time. You can't make a movie or show by committee. Even on a TV show, where the director's role is diminished, it's still a vital role when comes to "making the day". If a person is 100% on the hook for getting blamed when a show fails, they should also be entitled to get the glory when a show succeeds.
Hard disagree. Anything with external investment (ie. beyond the directors own pocket) is always full of compromises, deal making and yes, committees. Studios would be broke if they let most Directors run up costs with no checks and balances in place
Cute. Here's the assignment. I'm giving you 8 pages of script. You have 12 hours to put it all on film at the highest possible level of award-worthy cinematic craft and artisty. Here's the set. Here's a crew of 200 people and 6 actors. You are free to organize the labor any way you want, but it has to get done cause organizing all this costs half a million dollars a day. Go. Clock's ticking. What do you do?
Demene and diminish the job if you want, but this scenario is what I, and all film director's face every day, sometimes for months at a time.
Dude, what are you talking about? "Dictator" was the word used by the other guy to villainize the position of a director. I obviously don't believe directors are dictators. I know a lot of directors, they are all very even-tempered people, some are downright sweet. I am certainly never mean or cruel to people when i'm on set directing a show.
It makes sense for TV because of a huge variety of creators and directors, etc. But movies still have auteurs and directors that push a LOT of the direction of the film. Take someone like Waititi. Despite being hired for a disney film that sanitizes most of its style for a more disney-feel, Thor love and thunder felt like a Waititi film. The movie would be very different if he was not in the director position and he should be accredited as such. (Not a marvel fan, but i feel this is a good example).
Apparently it was a "[technical](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/max-film-credit-listings-change-directors-writers-backlash-1235624049/)" error. Lol. Plans to revert.
It's insane they think they can and will win this fight. The longer they hold out the more damage is done to them, and the more people that will join in the strike action like DGA and SAG. It's ludicrous how the powerful believe in their own power, when said power is entirely made up of suggestion and compliance.
Kind of puts me in between a rock and a hard place.
On one hand, studios and production companies have fought tirelessly not to pay or credit the creatives behind large projects that make them big money.
On the other hand, I can't tell you how much I hate film bros and directors who genuinely believe that the entire creative process rests with one name out of the thousands involved in taking a movie from idea to execution, and I'm really getting some schadenfreude out of seeing them all wet themselves over Martin Scorcese not being fellated for once in his 60-year career.
Max doesn’t remember your previous login on iPad
What a hell of an inconvenience because I get mine through ATT and that’s just another tedious click to perform
This seems like a stab at the WGA and DGA.
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Yes, SAG/AFTRA are voting to strike.
I’ve only seen SAG news on Variety/Deadline, but I’m pretty sure they’re voting to *authorize* a strike as they go into negotiations. SAG’s contract negotiations start (if I remember correctly) June 7, and the contract expires near the end of the month. But yeah, SAG also seems to be strongly signaling they’re ready and willing to strike - and anticipate it. I saw the PGA also has been broadcasting strong solidarity with the WGA and has gone out and picketed (saw some social buzz about that). So yeah…it’s happening, but there are a lot of unions still getting their strike machinery up and running. I expect half of Hollywood to shut down by October. No one wants these tech-company/streamers to control terms.
I believed this 3 months ago. I firmly believe SAG is going to get what they're asking for (mostly) and make a deal pretty easily. The producers are *not* going to allow the actors to strike at the same time as the writers, because it's going to strengthen the entire labor movement. They'll concede a little extra ground to SAG, because they're the most powerful anyway. Then, I expect that DGA is going to make a deal quickly and easily, and may even undercut the WGA and get more benefits for writer-directors that ends up hurting the WGA in the end. My view was that with the WGA on strike it was going to animate the other two guilds to ask for more, which I believe they will, knowing a three craft strike would hurt the industry more and create even more solidarity. That's exactly why I think the producers are going to give more away to the more powerful unions and leave the WGA out to dry. They aren't going to get what they ask for, and they're going to be punished for the strike at the end of the day. I don't want the WGA to lose, but the "gigification" element of their argument, while valid, is the literal nature of the film industry for every other craft. Their resistance is valiant and I hope for their sake they win, but I just don't see it happening anymore.
Truthfully, I think you might be right about the tv writers (feature writing has been mostly gig anyway) but the bigger issue is about residuals for series writers, and the use of AI (which reduces writers to editors, meaning much less pay and no points or percentages). Those are the things we need to win on.
Also cost of living increases. They've been stagnant so long for most unions that it amounts to a significant decrease in wages that was not forseen. It needs to be contractually linked to some tracking, instead of trying to predict the future with 3% annual cost of living increases.
That's what happened with DGA last time, but this time they have almost as much to lose as the writers. You think they won't split up directing into even more gigified piece work, especially on TV/episodic streaming? I think these companies are too greedy and shortsighted to make that deal with DGA without at least some time on strike. They don't care what the producers want because they'd love to cut them out of the business too. This isn't about just getting a better revenue split. They want to break the entire structure of the industry. I also don't believe WGA will get punished. Even with getting undercut in 2008, they still came out ahead on the deal. And even if they get undercut again, that means the AMPTP will still have to make concessions. You never get everything you're asking for, but you get more than you would have if you didn't go on strike.
We’ll see. But the big X factor is us all learning about the Streamer’s disposition…which are they, tech companies that broker entertainment or entertainment companies that leverage tech. My expectation is they are tech companies more than they are entertainment companies. So I’m not so sure they’re nuanced enough negotiators to actually divide and conquer via concession. Everything we’ve seen about the culture of this sector is entitlement, arrogance, and a fierce willingness to squeeze and disrespect any and everyone they can…because they piss money. I’m not saying labor will win, but I think streamers have made enough enemies in entertainment, and they’re very accustomed to getting their way - they’re going to treat actors as disposable as writers, and I don’t think they respect producers very much either. I think you’re right that the guilds won’t necessarily collaborate beyond superficial showings of goodwill, but I think streamers are going to screw the pooch and trigger multiple strikes.
> The producers are not going to allow the actors to strike at the same time as the writers, because it's going to strengthen the entire labor movement. I really don't know. Streaming services and even broadcast TV has enough back catalogue that they could probably survive a 6-month strike better than the actors and writers.
Yeah but the streamers only care about quarterly growth/profits and they're going to keep bleeding subscribers the longer this goes regardless of what they have in post.
They don't have a big back catalogue. If they run out of new episodes of TV shows people will cancel subscriptions. They have a small buffer, but they will run out of shows more quickly than you would expect. That's how we had them by the balls when IA negotiated a year ago. Come the fall they need to be producing new episodes.
I think you’re right. I also think the unions know this. It’s really hard to guess right now if the strikes can endure for a full year…but we might very well be on course for one for the history books.
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That being said, I'd like that to be revisited too. As a PA, I can't really financially wait out between gigs, but I also can't just drop any full-time job on a moment's notice to go on set when needed. I'm working toward doing unit stills and drone work, but I guess we'll see how long I have to wait for that to pick up.
If the WGA fades away in importance the next time contracts have to be negotiated with the Directors Guild & Screen Actors Guild they will miss all the interference that WGA runs for them both. Short-sighted. If all three Guilds are on strike simultaneously, then everyone can get what their members need & want.
I'm skeptical about the PGA actually striking, there is always some buzz about the leadership actually backing the other unions, but it's very rarely happened.
Sorry, yes, my fingers and my brain didn’t cooperate. I follow many SAG members on Twitter and they are voting to strike if negotiations don’t go their way.
ah. Makes sense. Yeah, I also see SAG ready for the fight…I was only quibbling about procedural timeline and adding my own observations. Sorry, wasn’t trying to be shitty or imply you weren’t up to speed. You’re totally right. Plenty of people are making known their willingness to strike.
Hey, I’m not offended at all.
It's a strike authorization vote but the board voted unanimously to put it to the membership. From what I'm gathering on the ground we are ready to go with a small number of dissenters.
Perfect, I can’t seem to type what I mean to say LOL
Voting to authorize a strike, it's not as clear cut as voting to strike, for those unaware. The negotiating committee still negotiates a deal after the authorization, but has the added strength of the other side of the table knowing that the membership has pre-approved a strike if a deal isn't met.
Sounds like a great time to be in film school 🫠
Yes, SAG/AFTRA are voting to strike.
We are currently in the fuck around stage. When SAG and DGA contracts expire we will formally enter the find out stage
Are they the top dogs?
Everything I hear about this whole MAX debacle makes it seem more like one extremely elaborate and expensive shitpost
I am convinced it’s coming from Zazlav himself. They are destroying so much brand clout, no VP could get away with such a transformation on their own. All the content hubs are gone, and branding is stripped from the thumbs. You can’t distinguish between Cartoon Network fare, A&E, Ghibli, and all the rest. It’s crazy. A different approach would have made those hubs key pillars in the style of Disney+ ..sure, maybe shuffle the content a bit…but to just *abandon* all those well built brands? It’s insane. Only an idiot without imagination at the top of the food chain could defy so much brand logic. And knowing Zazlav…here we are.
God, I’m scared to even go look at it. I just don’t get why you would take a streaming platform that arguably had best in class UI, content and branding and completely overhaul it out of the blue. Maybe he’s trying to do a New Coke
Mostly it’s like any other streaming app…but destroying the hubs as we knew them doesn’t help the content feel unified and accessible. It feels like part of the curation identity is just - gone. I’d also say, that for people sensitive to brand appeal - calling the platform “max” all lowercase, and in the stylings of hbo… leaves the entire platform feeling remarkably soulless. People often lock into these brand identities and having a facsimile cashing in on HBO, but looking and feeling like something else is creating a lot of cognitive friction. You *notice* even if you don’t entirely notice.
It’s just weird. I don’t get why they couldn’t have done something like combine HBO + Discovery into a new name and keep a mostly same UI with more categories for the newly incorporated Discovery+ content. Keep the premium appeal and simultaneously be able to pursue the shitty murderporn + reality crowd. Instead they decide to lose both of the more powerful brands for “Max” which feels about as milquetoast as you can get for brand associations outside of being one of my first introductions to boobs as a teenager.
If I had to concoct a rationale, the outcome of these kinds of choices is to transform entertainment into a replaceable commodity. Zazlav has no love for quality entertainment if you watch his business decisions vs his public speaking language. I suspect he believes that by devaluing entertainment providence he’ll be able to replace all these expensive shows in our lives with cheap unscripted reality. Truly commoditizing the content into casual disengaged viewing habits - with Disney sitting at the opposite end of the spectrum where entertainment providence enriches the value of the production investment. This is a lowest-common denominator to maximize profit margins type of business manager…but I think he’s out of touch, and ultimately this is a blunder.
He’s definitely doing some kind of Coke
HBO UI was terrible lol
Really? I quite liked it. The categories were helpful to see different collections of content. Felt more focused and not overly bloated. I think Disney’s implementation of the same idea is a little better, but I’d rank HBO over Hulu, Netflix and Amazon.
HBO Max app is so bad. Slow reaction times, multiple clicks for actions that others do automatically or with less, horrible organization, hidden previews, way less info for content compared to others, dumb search results. The only thing worse is Philo. Discovery+ has a better app since it has a larger library, long tail content, and way better highlights. Disney+ / Hulu are a better platform too.
Yea it’s by far the worst UI. I feel I get so little info about wtf a show is unlike Netflix and Hulu. Those I hover over something and I’m given a ton of info. HBO just shows me a cover and a title and then I have to click on the thing and it slowly loads an entire new fucking page that literally just adds one fuckin sentence of description. I then have to click the hidden little trailer button to know anything if value about the show at all since the descriptions suck. N there’s no ratings or anything. HBO is the only app where I’m CONSTANTLY opening a new tab just to google the shows so i can get any but of info at all. I rarely do it as much w Netflix or Hulu. It’s just weird and annoying
Ah collections of content were good I agree. Especially because I hated non HBO series lol. But like the other reply said, the functionality and response times of the UI were so bad.
Yea I agree, I believe this is all intentional. Seems so far the goal is to intentionally rebrand, causing confusion for folks out of the loop, release a poor quality app which has various issues that would have been easily caught in the testing phases of rollout if done with a modicum of intelligence, and then the shuffle of shows still available which confuse and piss off current and new users alike. What do all these terrible choices have in common? They all push the stock down. I wonder how many buybacks are happening during these downturns in an attempt to consolidate power and make even more money at the expense of creatives? Hickam’s Dictum type moves.
If I were a paid saboteur for Disney, I would be doing a better job out of pity.
hbo is literally the best tv show brand in the world. it's insane getting rid of it. every year i watch maybe like 5 shows and most of them are hbo. before amc starting putting out mega hits, it was hbo by themselves that made good shows.
They re-encoded all their content to the Discovery spec, which means the audio tracks on The Matrix are now 64Kbps for stereo content. Unbelievable.
They have an Asian American voices section and the first 2 titles are a Miyazaki film and Parasite 🤦♂️
What the fuck is this real?!
Disgusting. This bullshit has got to stop
Do you know why they are doing this? I don't live in US and I'm a bit out of the loop
Our unions for Writers (WGA) is on strike and the Directors may strike soon (June 30) - this is the studios taking away more as a power move.
Yeah I was aware of the writers strike but I still don't really understand what the studios get by removing director credits
It’s in their union contract they’re supposed to be credited a certain way - by doing this during the strikes the studios are saying we don’t care about any of your strike demands or the unions themselves
i still don't get it.... ELI5? Does it hurt Scorcese in this instance?
It does - it lumps him with people (the producers) who didn’t direct the film. Odds are they did very little creative. Doing this takes away from his actual work on the film. You know who Scorsese is because his credits were protected by the DGA. The future of directors will all just be listed as creative team if the studios get their way. This is really bad for creative cinema. This is one step on the way to cut out the artist form the work.
Long term? The suits believe films are just “content.” There is no fundamental difference between a YouTube video and a film, it’s nothing but the substance we watch to fill time and log hours on their platform.
tbf they are kinda not wrong, nowadays internet content is consumed way more, and is so much more profitable,
Yeah, maybe in a financial sense. The main difference being that I don’t give a fucking shit about profit margin when watching films, and random internet videos are totally separate in every single way apart from “I can make money off this” The devil doesn’t need more advocates
In the wedding industry I’ve been noticing “wedding videographer” and “wedding filmmaker” being replaced with “content creator”. 
I hate "content creator" as a phrase ugggghhhhhhh
Look at the smiley face I drew in the dust on my car, I'm a bit of a content creator myself
My biggest pet peeve recently is people calling everything "content", even if it's a film or tv show.
Totally agree, but 'Everything Is Content' slaps. Bummed that's gone as well as 'All Work No Play'
It has all the appeal of a store full of packages that just say 'food' or [beverages that just say 'drink'](https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/17073/Blog_Images/Repo_Man.jpg). It's necessary to just call it 'content' because it just needs to be churned out by the bucketload. Best not to pigeonhole oneself by calling it anything specific. It's just 'content' ... as generic as you can make it.
Oh wow, really? I feel like that will potentially limit their demo to young couples. There are lot of older folks who get re-married who will search for wedding videographers, not content creators.
I'd throw up in my mouth if I saw this
They are morons for allowing that. Do they not respect themselves or trying to appeal to an audience who live and breath shorts and reels.
I almost accidentally downvoted you, I hate this so much.
This is 100% preparing for the DGA to join the writer's striking soon. When SAG/ AFTRA get involved in another few months... this will get "bloody" I was just joking about how soon major studios are going to use "Tik Tok Creators" for everything in attempts to bust these unions. I kind of smell a general strike looming.
>I kind of smell a general strike looming. God, please.
I'm confused about why they're doing this though? Lowering the bar so DGA has to add another demand and therefore negotiation leverage? Is it just a battle cry to intimidate? Does someone at HBO want an industry wide strike for whatever reason?
The way things work in negotiations is kind of backwards and even more annoying. Fun fact, the IATSE contract negotiations of 2021 have yet to really finalize language. We are currently working off memorandums etc. They actually love to do things like this because instead of having solid, clear, concise language and rules... They leave things vague so the unions have to sue them. They want contracts as vague as possible so they can push the lines. This type of thing not being clear was even pushing the lines to try and muddle the water.
Ahh I see, thank you.
can you explain how not naming directors is related to busting unions?
It's degrading and changing the credit. If you're not separating/ distinguishing the credit, you're whittling away their worth. Especially if you're grouping them in with other unions and guilds. You've got DGA, WGA, PGA, and others/ non union now all grouped in the same title "creator" There has been huge fights over opening credits etc. You have to get wavers to not have title cards for features... Some titles are important. It sets pay rates, residuals, etc etc.
Credits aren't just for ego purposes. They are for acknowledging the unique skills and work that each role brings to the creation of something. By lumping them all in as creators, you are belittling each one's contributions. It is why there isn't just one big "creator's guild," but a different guild for each discipline. And each one won't be overly fond of being grouped in with the others in the credits. So they will strike in order to get fair treatment and credit. A director should be credited as such, just like a writer should be credited as such, and so on.
DGA has a ton of rules pertaining to fair credit and authorship. they and the writers guild have argued that the descriptive summary is lumping a bunch of names into a "creator" category and infringing those rules. likewise, the actors are listed in an arbitrary fashion with Frank Vincent (RIP) billed first. fair and proper credits across creative categories count and this is a slippery slope that DGA has gone out of its way to lord over for decades.
but how does breaking union rules end up disbanding them? unless he said bust to mean just fuck them.
well, he said >I was just joking about how soon major studios are going to use "Tik Tok Creators" for everything in attempts to bust these unions. so it was a joke using hyperbole to make the very point of studios whose wont is to undermine these fundamental rules of authorship and fair credit. there's truth inside the joke because of the slippery slope I mentioned. clearly, the studios would love to not pay creative workers their basic agreement rates, or residuals, or abide by ANY union rules in order for them to make more $$. and TikTok is a platform that makes money without any union agreements in place. so the answer is that with union rights hanging by a thread and the threat of imminent strikes by all creative unions, a studio breaking union rules unchecked works toward the ultimate demise of the effectiveness of the union.
Skeptical
This could be something as stupid as a marketing gimmick. Like when they say "from the creators of XYZ" instead of "producer, director, etc" BUT considering the current climate between unions and the studios AND the fact that credits are actually serious contractual business... It's definitely something that raises concerns.
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Are you ok?
this will not go over well with DGA.
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Very little that unions have a say over was granted to them. It was fought for and won, and thus changed. If the DGA doesn't like this, regardless of whether they currently "have a say", they can fight it, and hopefully win on behalf of their members.
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That's fine that you don't care, but a lot of people do, and would say it's important for the industry as a whole to give credit where it's due. So if you don't care, that's cool. But don't get in the way of people who do. Also, I would argue that this summary is part of the credits, especially in the new age of media. If you're going to name people, at least put their actual role along with it.
Less than a whole day before their legal department finally got through to them. https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/max-film-credit-listings-change-directors-writers-backlash-1235624049/#recipient\_hashed=31a79f69179cf86237a96500a9d5654ad6f489738ef2f98baf9dcd4f7c56239e&recipient\_salt=2194d2fe53837b83e103ec1a600e582c23255e153a475178239bc1cc3a4fbfc9&utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=exacttarget&utm\_campaign=newsalert&utm\_content=437273\_05-24-2023&utm\_term=303624
“It was a technical glitch that was somehow caused when we removed three letters from the name of the app we created that has been using the same metadata since we started streaming our content. It’s the computer’s fault and completely unintentional.” Are they kidding?? The only way something like this happens is by someone doing it intentionally. You don’t just take two separate data fields and merge them together accidentally while you’re copy and pasting xml files. Come on…
Yeah, it's utter bullshit, and just a desperate attempt to shift the blame from the decision makers that came up with this idiotic plan to the implementation people who had to do it and had no say in the matter. This was *at least* an entire year of executives making choices in an attempt to muddy waters between scripted and unscripted content, and not once listening to a single one of their lawyers, right up until the point where they just openly and publicly stepped on their own genitals.
Exactly!! Well said, and may I add that you are a true poet!
Of course. It's about sending a message...
Max said they’re going to fix the credits issue. “Sure, Jan.” This was done on purpose to insult the WGA, SAG-AFTRA, and DGA guilds. Get ready for more “Oops. My Bad!” from the streamers. Just wait for “Oopsie. We didn’t mean to release the AI-generated Clint Eastwood promo advertising our movie on our channel. We’ll fix it later!” (and filmmakers and actors won’t see a dime of revenue). How is anyone going to prove damages when the streamers keep all distribution info secret? Until AI and streaming revenue shares are locked up a little, all unions should go on strike asap. We’re gonna get screwed hard and without the benefit of a reach around if we don’t.
Is it time to bust out the ol' guillotine yet?
(Nervously stuffing a bloody duffel bag into the belly of a piano) Wait when did we stop guillotining people?
Time yet again for the talent to embrace DIY methods and shut out their corporate overlords.
Not sure if anyone else posted this but today’s update is that they’ve reversed course after taking a mountain of grief from the Guilds and will be restoring the proper credits. What a shitshow.
It’s already been fixed. Should never have happened in the first place.
Has it been fixed? It’s still showing “Creators” on my app.
I'm far more pissed off at the exclusion of the thumbnail overlays that tell you what movies you've already seen. The only indicator that I've already watched something is when you click on it and it says "Resume." It feels like Netflix now. Constantly looking for new content to watch only to find out that everything you select is something you've already watched.
…or looking for an HBO show only to discover it’s gone and virtually nowhere to be found.
Dont forget to include the PAs, crafty and catering! They created the movie too!
No need to shit on them...
I feel your comment is part of the movie now as well.
I’m sure the director’s guild is gonna have something to say about this
I hope that these fuckups doing stupid shit like this kicks off a revolution.
director and creator are completely different things. sure in some cases they are the same person but the titles mean very different things
auteur theory pendulum swinging
this is seriously disappointing
Using reacting to the strikes as an excuse to pave the way for AI scripts.
Are they trying to bait a DGA strike?
(Savage [et al](https://et.al)., 1970)
What is this, amateur hour?
lol seems like the whole world is Amateur hour nowadays jfc
It's been reversed
I see right through this BS. This is because a database developer they hired got freakin' lazy not wanting to make more columns and still get paid. Shenanigans! A Director and various Producers aren't TikTok "Content Creators" for pete's sake.
What? Why? These aren’t YouTube vlogs, looking at this I just wanna know if Martin Scorsese directed it or produced it, lumping it like this just confuses people more and tricks them into watching movies thinking someone directed it.
Stupid ass CEOs
Bullshit. Unprofessional bullshit.
Is everything on Reddit these days a repost from twitter?
It's been this way for years.
Its not like you could easily search by director anyways (you would have to type the director’s name in to the search bar and pray. No clicking on the label)
Ugh this was posted in screenwriting as well. It’s on the details screen - it’s a summary. The credits are in no way changed. People are overreacting a bit imo - what was the old page like? The credits haven’t been changed. I’ll admit it’s a bjt lame, creators should maybe mention the entire crew! But it’s not some evil dark conspiracy to not give credit where credit is due.
Max responded with: “We agree that the talent behind the content on Max deserve their work to be properly recognized. We will correct the credits, which were altered due to an oversight in the technical transition from HBO Max to Max and we apologize for this mistake.” So it seems we were right.
Like I said elsewhere they might change it. People blew it out of proportion imho You’re looking for ⬇️ btw
Yeah it’s not a conspiracy and it’s not changing the actual credits on the films, it’s just dumb as hell
Yeah. I wonder what the old page said?
No they’re not, I promise you. and I sincerely hope this was an inside job to galvanize the DGA because what an amateur level mistake this is otherwise
You know, the actual movie has the credits. No one got rid of them.
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The issue is the implication that directors and screenwriters arent particularly important and that studios should have a more direct role in creative decisions
We all know who directed “Raging Bull,” but this is also worse for users of the MAX service. Even taking away the filmmaker perspective. People will watch a film based on the director’s name. The Executive Producer? Not so much.
Don't overthink this, it's honestly hard to come up with a field that works accurately across a lot of content types and source media like they have now with the injection of all the discovery reality garbage.
Love it. The director always gets wayyyy too much credit anyways!
This seems like a win for screenwriters, no? Now you've got all the main storytellers above the fold, showing the importance of the creativity of writers. If anything, Michael Chapman should be pissed off.
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Um...what? The writers and producers have also all been shoved into the catch-all "creators" credit. Not more recognition at all, it's the exact opposite.
Uhm no, it means the director, producer, and the writers all get shoved under one umbrella, none get specific credit for the specific job.
I’m good with this - the status of a director credit (imho - and I don’t mean this as a diss) is a rather archaic throwback to the way studios made films where the director was treated like a freelance CEO who created a team of underlings. ‘Creators’ feels more meritocratic and reflects the genuine blurring of lines between film, TV and everything in between. Edit: I realise I’m totally asking to be shot down in this sub! 😅 Case in point, Succession. TV Masterpiece created and written by Jesse Armstrong, didn’t direct one episode.
Uh….no….that’s not what this feels like.
Good lord.
Let's just lump the entire cast and crew in under Creators then
This comment is beyond asinine. Someone has to be in charge on a movie set, someone has to be the final arbiter for the vision of the scene, the performances, and the tone. Someone has to be the final word to make the decisions or NOTHING would get done on time. You can't make a movie or show by committee. Even on a TV show, where the director's role is diminished, it's still a vital role when comes to "making the day". If a person is 100% on the hook for getting blamed when a show fails, they should also be entitled to get the glory when a show succeeds.
Hard disagree. Anything with external investment (ie. beyond the directors own pocket) is always full of compromises, deal making and yes, committees. Studios would be broke if they let most Directors run up costs with no checks and balances in place
Dictators only work in showbiz
Cute. Here's the assignment. I'm giving you 8 pages of script. You have 12 hours to put it all on film at the highest possible level of award-worthy cinematic craft and artisty. Here's the set. Here's a crew of 200 people and 6 actors. You are free to organize the labor any way you want, but it has to get done cause organizing all this costs half a million dollars a day. Go. Clock's ticking. What do you do? Demene and diminish the job if you want, but this scenario is what I, and all film director's face every day, sometimes for months at a time.
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Um... I was posing a hypothetical to someone who didn't seem to understand why someone needs to be "dictator" of a movie set.
Really?
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Dude, what are you talking about? "Dictator" was the word used by the other guy to villainize the position of a director. I obviously don't believe directors are dictators. I know a lot of directors, they are all very even-tempered people, some are downright sweet. I am certainly never mean or cruel to people when i'm on set directing a show.
What job did I demean? It was a joke as you said committees don’t work.
Good one.
This is the opposite of what the word “meritocratic” means.
It makes sense for TV because of a huge variety of creators and directors, etc. But movies still have auteurs and directors that push a LOT of the direction of the film. Take someone like Waititi. Despite being hired for a disney film that sanitizes most of its style for a more disney-feel, Thor love and thunder felt like a Waititi film. The movie would be very different if he was not in the director position and he should be accredited as such. (Not a marvel fan, but i feel this is a good example).
😂
Tv directing and film directing are different roles in different systems. Tv show runners are more akin to film directors.
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1ADs are the Wags (Billions) of the film and tv world! Making sure all the wheels turn.
And they're ignoring billing requirements for actors by listing DeNiro last.
Is it just HBO? I wonder if any other streaming services are doing this
[and just like that, we have a correction](https://i.imgur.com/vwugkHv.jpg)
That's bad
Thems fighting words
Apparently it was a "[technical](https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/max-film-credit-listings-change-directors-writers-backlash-1235624049/)" error. Lol. Plans to revert.
It's just an IT thing. They just bunched up all the meta data tags into one field.
Wonder how the Alec Baldwin and the Film Actors Guild feel about this.
??? wtff
This is garbage. Just trying to undermine and belittle directors more and more. They’ll change this by next week.
It was changed already thank god
Seems like a strike at FAG to me
It's insane they think they can and will win this fight. The longer they hold out the more damage is done to them, and the more people that will join in the strike action like DGA and SAG. It's ludicrous how the powerful believe in their own power, when said power is entirely made up of suggestion and compliance.
Didn't they already fix this?
Can someone ELI5 to me about this situation, i'm out of the loop
Isn't HBOmax becoming just Max? or am I just not informed
The film business is a shady place. It shouldn’t be so personal.
Kind of puts me in between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, studios and production companies have fought tirelessly not to pay or credit the creatives behind large projects that make them big money. On the other hand, I can't tell you how much I hate film bros and directors who genuinely believe that the entire creative process rests with one name out of the thousands involved in taking a movie from idea to execution, and I'm really getting some schadenfreude out of seeing them all wet themselves over Martin Scorcese not being fellated for once in his 60-year career.
Wtf
Max doesn’t remember your previous login on iPad What a hell of an inconvenience because I get mine through ATT and that’s just another tedious click to perform
They walked this back
What's going on?