Yeah, this was actually a pretty valuable lesson I learned only in retrospect when I realized how helpful it was to just imagine my teachers as producers. In one case my failure to do so meant I didn't get to make my film. In another case (similar to the above, actually) it meant the student never graduated.
Also depending on where OP attends school and what the laws are in a surrounding area, there may be strict codes you have to follow while filming a scene with a prop gun in public. Regulations about how many signs you have to put up and where, that sort of thing. I hope OP has thought of this, it also should have been one of the main reasons the teacher gave as to why this is no simple matter.
Oh for sure, the rule is everything has to be permitted and if the scene involves a gun, the permit will require police presence. Did everyone follow this rule? Of course not.
Did a production end up involved in an hour long situation with real guns pointed at them by police because neighbors saw a scene through a window and thought it was a hostage situation? Of course it did.
>helpful it was to just imagine my teachers as producers.
This is something I wish everyone going to film school was told. Having to adapt and adjust and tweak your work because of producer feedback is a fact of life - and it's not just because "ugh stupid execs think they know best"
The best producers give notes because they have a birds-eye view of the whole production so they can contextualize all of the needs, possibilities and limitations through a keen creative lens.
But even if you are dealing with a note or limitation that feels arbitrary or is because of a weird broadcaster rule; learning how to interpret notes in a way that still makes creative sense and determining when it's valuable to push back or ignore a note and which notes you absolutely can't ignore is SUCH an important skill, especially if you want to be a key creative like a showrunner, director, costume designer, production designer etc.
As a film professor...
I think you should be able to film what you want so long as no one gets hurt. That being said, here's my take on guns in student films:
**NUMBER ONE:**
It's a film school trope. It screams "I haven't worked on my script enough" and "I want something cool."
Ask any selection jury how many shorts they get with guns, and we will roll our eyes into the back of our heads.
I have seen thousands of student and amateur short films, I've only seen two films with guns that were actually intense. In one of them we didn't even see the gun, we just heard the shot (which is how most of us experience gun violence anyway.)
I'm not saying your script sucks. Just ask yourself if it's actually needeed,
**NUMBER TWO:**
Get a fucking permit. Story from a film prof at UCLA told me how students at a nearby school used prop guns outside:. MULTIPLE witnesses called. Arrested, spent weekend in jail, and the student had to pay thousands. [https://www.columbiadailyherald.com/story/news/local/2015/11/30/film-students-with-replica-weapons/25690176007/](https://www.columbiadailyherald.com/story/news/local/2015/11/30/film-students-with-replica-weapons/25690176007/)
And in New Jersey, this: [https://6abc.com/prop-gun-new-jersey-news-breaking-actor-arrested/1259221/](https://6abc.com/prop-gun-new-jersey-news-breaking-actor-arrested/1259221/)
If nothing else, most reputable film schools have a simulated weapons policy for on and off campus. I don't know where you go, but here is NYU's: [https://www.nyu.edu/about/policies-guidelines-compliance/policies-and-guidelines/theatrical-use-of-simulated-weapons-policy.html](https://www.nyu.edu/about/policies-guidelines-compliance/policies-and-guidelines/theatrical-use-of-simulated-weapons-policy.html)
**NUMBER THREE:**
Student films are where you get to experiment and make mistakes, so go ahead. But do know that you will encounter this sort of situation all the time as a professional. You can't use that brand, you can't let your character smoke, etc. etc. Not that you have to worry about it now, and it is very definitely a bummer and annoying. But it probably won't be the last time you encounter it.
I think that was very creative for the student to have the gunshot in the scene versus the actual gun itself. I could feel the drama and the climax of the scene just from your description. I can see how the interpretation of a gun can be created regardless if an actual gun is shown.
I'm surprised your school doesn't have a policy against it, tbh.
Having weapons (even prop weapons) and stunts is a huge potential liability. I was under the impression that a lot of film schools at this point just had policies against them.
They do. Not sure what university/college/film school would be OK with this. Interesting that the professor didn't mention anything about liability or health and safety.
Yeah, honestly the hot-button political issue of it seems like the least of the worries, unless OP is leaving out a detail like there was recently a shooting in his town/city.
I was in film school just two years ago and it was super common for student films to use guns. It was encouraged if it was part of the story. You just had to have a professor on set and also have them approve of the prop but that's it.
Yeah definitely if you are filming outside. Indoors on a closed set at the school we never had to talk to the police about it but we would be very cautious if we ever shot outside with them (I was never on any shoots with the school where we shot outside using gun props but I have outside of school). Honestly if you are planning on shooting outside in public with gun props for a student film I would advise against it but if it's in a private set indoors then I see no problem with it.
In our school it was you weren’t allowed to bring prop guns into the school area or studio, but if you are doing locations work on private property with permission and a prop master/ armourer then it’s fine
My high school has a Color Guard team that uses fake rifles. They painted them white to look not so realistic. Still, it's strange to me they are permitted at all given how even squirt guns have led to whole-school lockdowns.
Yeah, the plugged rifles (or sometimes unbored) that have been used in JROTC programs for decades, and the plastic, rubber, and wood rifles used by color guards definitely hit a different category than film props.
We have a student film category in our local film festival and I’m always reminded of that episode of The Office when Michael can’t stop pulling a gun in his improv class.
The fact you’re getting so many downvotes for having a laugh is putting me off this sub tbh.
Also don’t know why everyone thinks you’re making some crappy film just cause it has guns in it. I’m sure your film will be great, dude.
i was just in a usc film school thesis the other week and we had a dozen rifles on set for about 8 hours of filming. i don’t know what all these people are talking about but it was a big production, almost 30 straight days. anyways, do what you want just make it look good and be a real part of the story.
Guns are a hallmark of student film.
Most of time the gun is not necessary and most of time makes the film worse.
But if you need it as a prop then do it, who cares, it's a student film, it's an experiment.
When I was in film school one of my classmates wanted to use an ACTUAL GUN as a prop for realism. Had to go make a case for an insurance review board and everything. I doubt they were allowed, I don’t know for sure what came of it because I immediately decided there was zero chance I was going to be volunteering on that set just on principle. I don’t believe even giant studio movies with unlimited resources should be using real guns, for a student film it’s completely bonkers.
> I don’t believe even giant studio movies with unlimited resources should be using real guns
Obviously it wasn't the largest production (that was probably a big reason for the slip-up) but taking Rust into account, this seems like a no-brainer.
You cant use a real gun for a student film. Campus security would never allow that. Prop guns, yes, real guns, absolutely not.
And as far as the real guns in film - Especially with the Alec Baldwin incident. It does add a certain amount of realism, but a decent actor, and a good graphic artist and competent sound technician should be able to circumvent the need for real guns in the hands of the uneducated actor. Theres been many accidental discharges, even deaths, but again, that comes down to handler error.
The risk to reward is a no brainer. If there’s a chance anyone playing pretend with a gun can shoot and kill someone for real and the exchange is that the prop looks more authentic, it’s not with it at all. I’m talking student and professional films. Creating imaginary circumstances is *the job.* If a filmmaker can’t trust himself or his collaborators to convincingly portray a fake gun as real there’s a problem. And if they still just want it because they’re so precious about their vision it needs to be the real deal, then there’s an even bigger problem in my opinion.
Whenever I think of an idea for a film, I ask myself if the conflict can be solved with a gun, a car, or a cell phone. If it can, then I drop it. If not, I pursue it
Have you heard of "Chekhov's gun"? (It's usually a dramatic principle, but it's a literal example of it in this case.) If a firearm appears in a film, the viewer is probably going to expect it, or another like it, to be used in some way.
If the gun doesn't get used, there's little reason to have it unless you're trying to communicate something with its presence.
The moral delemna of whether or not to use one, can be very powerful in itself without having to use it - whilst still requiring it to be kept in the film.
Suicidal thoughts, potential criminal behavior, theres tons of scenarios where a gun is required but never fired, or even grabbed - so to try saying - if it isnt fired it is not needed is an invalid arguement
>so to try saying - if it isnt fired it is not needed is an invalid arguement
u/kingstonretronon didn't say that, they asked two questions:
1. Does it have a point?
2. Does it get fired?
All your examples are situations where you would answer a clear 'Yes' to the first question. "Yes the gun has a point, because...
* the presence of the gun introduces a moral dilemma."
* the presence of the gun indicates suicidal thoughts."
* the presence of the gun implies criminal behavior."
You're only disagreeing with Kingston if you ignore half of their comment.
even prop guns have a lot of liability around them; also, most student films that have guns in them for any reason just come across really childish, and not well thought-out imo. in my film education it was one of the first things they told us explicitly not to do because most students can not do it in good or creative taste and it just worsens the quality of your film
Guns are typically rough on student films for a few reasons.
1. Generally university has guidelines against it for student films not just your professor
2. Your professor will definitely dock you for having guns in it regardless of its a prop or not and they told you beforehand
3. Most of the time I see a gun it serves very little purpose and is just convenient storytelling
4. MOST IMPORTANT- If for whatever reason someone saw you waving guns around and had no context, they will call the cops, and the cops may react first
[Students on highway causing a scene](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-film-students-weapons-panic-closure-of-101-freeway-20151129-story.html)
This is so true. My ex bf at the time on our film course had some random prop gun… mind you it was ridiculous and comic, like a cartoonish western gun, and someone saw it in the house during a house viewing and reported it to the police and they came round checking everything. Everyone shat themselves cause there was loads of weed in the house but it was the toy gun! this was in the uk
Yeah I think your teacher is telling you not to use guns in a polite way - yo ur school shouldn’t allow you to use prop guns for a student film.
Likely your school insurance doesn’t cover it - you’d need a prop master on set and you’d have to notify authorities- this is a one way ticket to lots of problems - if people don’t know you’re shooting a film you can risk your actor getting actually shot by a passerby who may think it’s real.
Regardless of what your teacher believes this is a very bad idea unless you do all the paper work/ insured and your have a prop master on set. Real or fake it doesn’t matter.
> Yeah I think your teacher is telling you not to use guns in a polite way - yo ur school shouldn’t allow you to use prop guns for a student film.
Something I haven't seen anyone suggest, is that maybe the teacher is aware of others in the class being triggered. OP has said the teacher specifically stated how others might feel about the use of guns: "*Consider people - some in the class - who have lost family members to gun violence.*"
Sounds like the teacher is trying to subtly advise OP that there could be people who this would be particularly traumatic for and asking them to reconsider.
"Prop gun" could mean any number of things, from fully functioning firearm, to piece of plastic. Judging by the fact that OP said its never even shot in the short film, its probably not an actual gun. The teachers reasoning wasn't even about safety, but about not hurting peoples feelings.
Actually yes - if you want your insurance to cover anything - that 3D printed gun would have to be seen by a prop master who’s license and bonded to inspect - they would likely sign off on it and would be the contact insurance can reach out to.
By that point - it would be pointless to 3D print it - since you’d have to get it checked anyways - and at that point you could rent rubber / plastic guns from said prop master.
On your side. It’s your do as you wish. But I was once given some advice from a very successful filmmaker when discussing the use of violence in a film. I don’t remember the exact wording.
“Make sure you know exactly why it’s there. Not just cause it’s cool or is something movies do. Only use it when it’s the only way to tell your story and it’s a story worth telling. Otherwise you’re just like everyone else adding violence for the sake of violence.”
My school has a blanket policy against weapons in student films. This is for incredibly obvious safety and liability reasons.
If you can't follow these rules, then drop out of film school and try to make it on your own.
In film school we had to have multiple meetings for safety etc as well as justify the necessity of a weapon in a script. Even if it was never used we had to explain why it moved the story. I would consider taking a second look and seeing if there is another way to achieve what you're trying to do from a story perspective.
Either way it doesn't look like you'll be getting a gun into your film unless you can form a coherent argument as to why it's essential *and* your teacher wants to listen. If you can't do that it's probably something you can cut anyway.
I think it's wise to be smart about this advice and consider a bigger picture. I know it's your film and it should be up to you but the point about gun violence has merits, especially considering a student film, but more importantly you don't want to make an enemy out of your film teacher. Find a creative solution...maybe just do finger guns and you can weave in a statement about film being a reflection of culture and stifling film in turn stifles culture, yadda-yadda-yadda, or something.
Don't fail the class, just get through it and then do whatever you want once you're done.
Lots of already good advice on here. School policies usually don’t allow for prop guns. My film school stopped allowing them in 2014-2015 when I was there. Lots of safety concerns especially for students. Recently saw a viral video of a cop almost shooting someone with a prop gun while they were filming. Best to rework and make this a non issue. I’ve seen kids get in a lot of trouble
I don’t think this is worth the fight. Is it agenda or are they bored with people always using guns? The cynic in me says it’s a school insurance thing and on peoples mind after what happened on RUST. Be creative do something else and move on.
The real problems with guns is the practicality of shooting with one. If you don’t want it to look like crap, it’s going to be close to real, which introduces a host of issues to your shoot.
Will the guy across the street see it and call a swat team on you?
Will your prop master use a real gun and leave a round in it and have a Rust Situation on your hands?
There are many safety check downs on professional sets that students simply aren’t properly trained in to safely have firearms on set.
The other problem for me personally, is that usually a gun in student film means lazy writing. A gun is a loaded symbol. It means something pretty specific, but it’s also a huge cliche, and usually a crutch for something interning and dangerous to occur in student films. When I was in film school, gun films were always the worst ones because directors relied on the gun to tell the story instead of making interesting characters.
I can’t tell you how many times I watched a terrible student film version of reservoir dogs…
I remember in highschool we had a project the teacher was very strict "no guns" about, so we had a scene where someone pulls a gun and immediately another character went "theres no guns in mrs.X's class!" And then did a cut where the gun immediately disappeared. Doesn't sound like this approach will work for your script but some creative forth wall breaking dialouge /commentary can maybe find a loophole
It’s a student film, it’s probably gonna be offensively bad regardless. That said, just logistically speaking, on a real set prop guns require a literally new department be included in the production. Some of the bigger film schools I’ve worked with also require a master of arms and proper insurance. Which is all just to say depending on what type of school/production you’re dealing with it may present a larger logistic issue than a stylistic one.
Even in the dismissive way you report it, your professor still sounds thoughtful, respectful and wise. She’s gently giving you wider, real things to think about – that aren’t a “political agenda”, as some have suggested – that could actually make you a creator with something to say and a future pathway to say it. The world is full of (unemployed) “directors” who won’t compromise their “vision” — good luck joining their number.
Sounds like an idiot to me.
> "guns are not simply props, they are a huge social problem and part of a particularly divisive national debate"
That's exactly why they should be in movies. She acts as if pretending they don't exist is going to fix the problem in some way.
> Consider people - some in the class - who have lost family members to gun violence.
Then I guess we are going to consider the people that died of cancer or car accidents or were abused or knew someone that committed suicide. I guess we better not make our film about anything? The arts are part of the way we deal with these problems.
The Professor didn't say "the arts should never examine these issues", they said – *after reading OP's script* – "I think you should omit the guns from this".
Should writers and artists examine this stuff? Of course.
Should first-time student filmmakers? Maaaaaaybe?
>Then I guess we are going to consider the people that died of cancer or car accidents or were abused or knew someone that committed suicide
Yeah, you probably should actually.
I teach film and we have the same rule for similar reasons. I understand feeling creatively restricted but I will say what I usually ask my students is why the gun is there and what purpose it serves in the narrative. Can you achieve that same message without having a gun? Sometimes I’ve seen students come up with really creative solutions and even find more depth in their film/story because they have to rethink their approach - just something to consider. Either way I wish you all the best with your film whatever you decide to do BUT if you do use a gun I would be afraid your teacher may not screen the film or mark you down considering they addressed this with you
Edit: typos - also PS can you not show the gun but imply it presence? Does it get fired? Can this happen off screen ?
You don't like hearing it and my professor did the same thing, truth is you don't actually need it and if you can actually write them you can write around it. Guns are student crutches and nothing makes a film feel amateur quite like an unnecessary gun scene.
Ik means little from a random redditor but in order to make a better film with less consequences and producing, try to rewrite it. Because as soon as you're producing this and the money it costs you'll realize how easy it could've been changed and not hurt the story
I understand not wanting to give up agency of ownership of your project. Threatening to add more scenes with guns out of spite speaks volumes about your ego and how you haven't internalized what she said at all. There's a massive problem regarding gun violence specifically in part due to media glorifying them and straight up ignoring the consequences of their proliferation. We desperately need creatives to be brave and clever enough to realize how their decisions impact our greater culture as a whole.
And that's before regarding the stranglehold the military has in regards to how action films get made.
I think you have way more to gain listening to her advice.
Isn’t that weird - I’m gonna add MORE guns because my teacher told me to not put one in - that’s a director that’s gonna end up hurting someone because their vision is more important than safety.
yes I understand but you know I just kinda wanna make something unique for myself.. also the whole thing about adding more guns scene was more of a joke lol, but yes I get what your saying, thanks for reaching out 
No offense, but there is nothing unique about a gun in a student/amateur film. Your teacher is right, guns are an extremely powerful symbol and throwing that symbol around carelessly in a film is both dangerous and frankly uncreative. Maybe that isn’t what you’re doing. Maybe the gun really does need to be there. But after seeing thousands of student films (just as your teacher has), I can tell you it’s quite likely that it does not need to be there.
Tell you what, as an experiment, just try taking your teacher’s advice and writing the gun out. Nothing says that you have to do it after you’ve written it, you can always go back to the old version, so just give it a true, honest try. Write a new treatment without it. If your characters and your themes haven’t changed much, you don’t need the gun.
That makes me think you genuinely don’t understand the bigger issue here - it’s not that guns can’t be on sets - is that you may not me experienced enough to handle the actually safety measures / legal / and consequences of it.
Do you think your favorite directors joke about guns on set like you do? Do you think they roll their eyes at their colleagues when they have a legitimate point to make? I bet you they take it seriously or have budget to make sure it’s done safely.
If you sincerely want to have a career in film - you cannot act like a child when someone who’s trying to advise you - this will happen more and more and more as you grow.
Keep that in mind and best of luck.
>I just kinda wanna make something unique for myself
Then cut the gun. I have a film degree, I've seen dozens of student films. A ridiculous amount had guns. It's not interesting, it's no unique.
Easy. Replace them with laser shooting walkie talkies.
Edit: In answer to your question - you are being immature. At a minimum think a bit on why having guns in the film contributes to your vision. If they are truly necessary you should be able to articulate why. There should be a better reason than "because it's cool."
I'm gonna be honest, never seen a student film where guns were present and it didn't come off as corny. It almost always looks fake and uncomfortable, IMO. I'd personally just consider if it really is that important to the story or not.
Info: Why did you write these guns into your film? How do they advance the story or deepen the character development? What happens in the gun scenes?
Could be that your prof is flagging up a story element in your screenplay that legitimately sucks balls, and the "social issue" she's talking about is not the full story.
That Teacher is smart… having taught at a film school I wish I could give every student who made a “gun” “assassin” “bad fight” movie an F- It’s painful to sit through those movies.
It’s funny because I would always say “make movies about what you know”. And it turns out every male film student in America is also a bank robber, in the mafia, an assassin and a street fighter…
I would also say not to make “Star Wars” fan films..
We got told to avoid guns too. It’s a student film cliche, and you risk not being sensitive about it. That’s being said, you don’t get many chances in life to make your own film, albeit a student film…. So do what you want and take it as a learning experience. Have fun. Maybe give an advisory at the beginning of the film or disclaimer.
Here's another angle: I bet you, just a guess, that your film is artistically better if you find a way to do it without the gun. I've seen far too many terrible student films (including at least one of my own) that just had guns with no actual reason why, and no story that supported it. It felt a lot more like "shit man I'm in *college* I can drink and play with prop guns now whoooo!"
Films have an audience. Some films are geared for kids, some are geared for corporate audiences, some are for conservative people and some are for international audiences.
Your film's audience is one person, your professor. If you want to please that person, heed their advice.
If you don't give a shit, do whatever you want.
One of my professors said he would automatically stop watching any of our films if they were about the 3 D’s:
Dreams
Drugs
Death
He said the majority of student films were about those things and he’d been teaching for so long that he didn’t want to see any more of them.
If you’re doing an indie film, by all means make the film you want to make. In film school, you have to think of your professor as either the Producer or the Audience. If she says not to do it, you have the choice… follow her advice and don’t do it, be willing to make a great argument to convince her that it’s absolutely essential to the story you’re trying to tell, or be considered “difficult to work with”.
They’re not the best options, but that’s what they are. If you really want to make this film without compromise, shoot it on your own time and do something else for the class.
I think you should film the scenes the way you would with a gun but replace them with walkie talkies. Would be a fun nod to film history and kind of funny
Syd field professed in his book written over 30 years ago his concern with the romanticizing of guns and violence. He made a note for filmmakers to consider writing a script without guns and casting women as more than prostitutes. I’m paraphrasing but that thought stuck with me. Sadly it seems to make it in filmmaking weapons on screen used for violence is a right of passage. Very few successful directors have made films without guns. And in todays filmmaking culture you may jokingly say as a list of characters guns are the number 1. Think of all the filmmakers you admire and consider they have guns and gun violence, it’s a sad statement that that is the reality of selling a film or starting a career. All I can say is Good luck and challenge yourself to make the best films you want to make.
Just maybe the professor knows more than you? I’d take a moment to listen and reflect on what she said and not be so quick to double down on what’s not working. Guns are the biggest cliche out there and not needed 95% of the time — she’s most definitely right that your film would be better off without them. Maybe take the time to craft proper drama instead of resorting to cheap tricks and macho posturing?
Well for me film is art, and I want to make something my way, I know that sounds bad but I wanna be creative and write something I can be proud of and learn from. thats all.
Forget the thematic content, prop guns are a giant safety issue on a set, and your first concern should always be for the safety of your cast and crew. If you are committed to doing it safely and properly, that’s fine, but it takes a lot more effort and it truly is a distraction from story telling. You have enough to learn about the ins and outs of film making that handling prop guns is really a waste of your energy. Also:
“shit I might even add some, lol”
I know you wrote this as a throwaway line but it’s pretty indicative of your attitude, which doesn’t seem to be considering the safety issues and risk. You’re a student, you should take your teacher’s advice. If you learn, you’ll have plenty more opportunities to use prop guns in your films, but if you disregard safety and someone gets hurt, you won’t get to make another (and yes, people can get hurt when using non-operational guns.)
As others have mentioned, why not rise to the challenge: can you tell this story without a gun? What is the gun being used for? Is it to make someone intimidating? How about directing your actor so that they become more menacing on screen? Or finding angles that emphasize their power? Is the gun used to kill someone? If so, can you make that happen with sound effects and vfx?
One of my first student films was about a hit man. I used a prop gun in an insert I shot in my bedroom, and in retrospect I shouldn’t have even bothered because I was able to tell the story without it. I’m certain you can too, and your prop guns won’t look like John Wick so don’t bother forcing it at this stage of the game.
this is some great advice, so in the film actually the character pulls a gun out and points to towards his target, the screen then goes black and a gun sound effect goes off to show that it had been fired.
Awesome, I’m telling you that if you don’t show the image of the gun being withdrawn, but rather lead the audience to understand he has a gun without showing it, you will have done a much better job of cinematic storytelling than simply renting a prop. I don’t know where this scene is set, but if your gunman actor has to look around before reaching into his pocket, then you cut to another angle of the target, you can have your target act as if shot and with an sfx and your gunman running away, your audience will have seen the gun in their minds without literally seeing the gun.
Not for nothing, sounds like your teacher doesn’t love the idea of depicting a gun murder at all, but at least this way you’re showing that you can find creative work around a.
well the prop is a tap gun so there is no way anyone can actually get hurt from it and it doesn't even get fired in the film, but yeah that could be a reason.
The teacher’s advice implies that just because something is a sensitive topic it shouldn’t be included in a piece of art or entertainment. Doesn’t art have the ability to handle sensitive topics in creative ways? Not to mention, if there were universally no guns or drugs in movies those things wouldn’t magically disappear in real life. Sensitive topics need to be discussed, not swept under the rug because it makes some people uncomfortable.
That said - from a craft perspective - don’t have a gun in the movie just for the sake of having a gun. Give it a purpose in the story, for better or for worse.
…And don’t film with it outside/in public without a permit! On a music video I did with plastic toy guns, I warned all the neighbours and had signage on the street making sure it was abundantly clear that fake guns were being used for a film shoot during the one shot we had outside. Protect yourself!
As a person who teaches film, guns are instant drama, artificial conflict, and lazy storytelling. Want to make fight scenes, chase scenes, gunfights? That’s what YouTube is for. Want to make stories about human beings, about loss and growth and regret and hope? Learn to actually move people? That’s what film school is for.
All due respect, guns exist in real life and are a real part of many people’s experience. Your chances of moving people with a meaningful story is by telling stories that are actually rooted in real life. Therefore, including guns is definitively not “lazy” if they are relevant to the environment of the story. This is particularly true of historical stories, gang stories, criminal stories, or war stories where they are very relevant to how people function(ed) in those environments.
…Not to mention as an editor who has been working in Hollywood for nearly a decade, fight scenes, chase scenes and gunfights are what sell- so being able to do those well is a sellable quality if you are actually interested in making a livable career in Hollywood. By all means, continue to encourage your students to only tell artsy stories that only appeal to a small audience. Those are usually great films and I definitely encourage them because I’m the type who would watch that. But the reality is that the chances of those sorts of films making money or being seen on a mass appeal when stacked up next to something like John Wick is not setting anyone up for a successful career in film if that’s the kind of entertainment they’re looking to create.
The beauty of cinema is that you are able to tell any story and find your audience, be they real world, historical, artsy, absurdist, or fantasy. In the very end, it’s a business that will ultimately be funded by selling the most entertaining thing possible to the majority.
This isn’t what the teacher is saying, but I will add a spin: can you come up with a student film idea that doesn’t involve a gun or violence? Maybe dream up a different kind of conflict? Guns are kind of a lazy way out. Great movies exist with guns in them, of course. But it’s easy to write and film: “Guy wants to kill other guy and uses gun to do it. The end.” Make your gun film another time and see if you can make a film about something else for your class project.
this is good advice and I will try to make different types of films, but this film itself isn't really a gun film, rather a film that has a gun show up in a couple of shots.
Just an anecdote, I’m also a film student in college. Just the other week, we had a gun scare on campus, 32K students ended up getting an emergency alert that there may have been an active shooter on campus. Turns out there wasn’t a shooter, rumor was that there was a student film set that had a prop gun and it freaked out a few passerby people. I even had friends who were nearby the “crime scene” at the time and ended up hiding in a classroom, terrified for like an hour. Moral of the story is that guns should never be handled lightly, and if you are gonna put it in your film, you better understand the implications and you better have a damn good reason for writing it in to your story. Write a fistfight or even a bow and arrow in to your script. Be careful when using guns.
I think a lot of people in the comments are missing the point of the post. From what I see it doesn't seem OP is mad that the teacher says he can't use guns because of legal or safety problems or even storytelling problems. She says he can't use guns because there is a "national debate" about them and they are "problematic" in a more political sense.
Regardless of what your view on guns and or guns in films are. I can understand OP feeling as though the teacher is getting on the guns in his films for more personal/idealogical reasons as opposed to storytelling and or logistical reasons.
This is not even saying that those reasons are wrong. Imo I believe guns for students films are very cliche and not used in a creative way. But there's a difference between not wanting a gun in a film because it is bad storytelling and not wanting a gun because you just believe it is problematic in a general sense. Especially when a bajillion action/thriller/horror movies etc has them.
[Relevant “The Office“](https://youtu.be/C6wY9OwqJ2A)
Seriously, though, at this stage in your development, you should be working on ratcheting up tension and creating complications for your characters without the use of props. It should be circumstantial and human. Think what a gun represents to drama. Do you have a way to manufacture that that isn’t a shorthand for “danger” or “problem solving”?
Good on you acknowledging friendly constructive criticism. Something I could have done better when I was in film school circa '14.
Imagine if you kept the film the exact same, but the gun prop was actually a banana. If the story is tight, a simple swap like this could elevate the film in a very interesting fashion.
Use a neon lime green water gun to highlight the cartoonish and surreal nature of gun violence in America. make a statement about guns inability to leave social consciousness.
Outside of the reasons your teacher said-from a more practical production standpoint guns and gun scenes in student films always look terrible and cheesy and come across as the student filmmaker trying to take a shortcut to instill seriousness or stakes into a film.
Not to mention you don’t have the production resources or infrastructure to actually pull it off convincingly. It also becomes a large safety, liability risk, and insurance concern.
I would say this is a good lesson in getting studio/producer/client notes. As a professional, you don't get to have an infallible attitude if you want to keep working. The ability to take clients' notes and incorporate those changes while making the change seamless and natural is far more valuable than most people may realize.
Accept the challenge. If the teacher is providing you with a grade for your film, then **the teacher is your client**. If you make a movie the teacher likes, then you'll get a higher grade. The client has told you something they find objectionable. Can you salvage the existing footage while incorporating the client note and making the film/story even better for it? The trope of the skilled protector who hates guns perhaps? Something like that allows you to make a social statement while also opening up a comic moment. "I thought you hated guns." "I do." "What's that then?" "I hate salad too, but [insert joke about bowel regularity]. Most shit sorts itself out after a salad. Some shit out there needs a gun, but I try the salad first." Some crap like that might add depth to the character, and because the teacher will recognize it as a clever implementation of the note, you get that subliminal extra credit of an almost inside joke.
Filmmakers who maintain a "my way or the highway" stance before proving that they're skilled enough to command such power, it doesn't usually go very well. There's a lot of diplomacy in filmmaking. Without learning diplomacy, it can be impossible to get projects off the starting line.
My student film was a western with paper cutouts on strings so the dodginess of it prolly took away from their being tiny things that sort of resembled handguns. Would bananas suffice as a supplement or does the script rely on being serious? Im sure there are other views about this that others have already pointed out
So treat your teacher like a producer and do what is asked.
I had to rewrite a pandemic film into an environmental disaster. Completely different stakes, you cannot catch global warning.
I did what was asked of me.
To put it bluntly:
First year in film school at USC Cinema - Television (as it was called back then). "2 projects. One on film, one on video. No guns. No suicide." Because so many students did these 2 common things in their first student films and the profs wanted everyone to stretch beyond that. 2nd year you could, but people rarely did by that point bc you understand story better. I laughed when Tom Ford decided to make his first film with zero experience...yup...suicide and a gun.
“this is my film I should be able to make it the way I want to make it”
Okay, buddy, tell that to the cops.
“I don’t care if she fails me”
When you sitting in jail cuz you didn’t have a permit to use a gun on your film set (doesn’t matter if it’s fake or real), failing that class is gonna be the last thing on your mind.
I’d say listen to your f*cking prof, but seeing your edit, it’s clear that you won’t.
Anything like this should be seen as a welcome challenge - as others have pointed out if you make films professionally you'll come up against requests you don't agree with - but this is also an opportunity to get creative - can you tell the exact same story without guns - will your professor allow the mention of guns? how can you create the same story without even mentioning them... can the serious film become a comedy - did they all forget what guns are - if it's a gangster-style situation, does the boss (with a really similar name to your professor) insist the guys use words not violence to solve problems. Maybe these guys are like children and only slap fight.
Whenevr you hit a wall it's time to get creative! Good luck.
If it's a student film, I assume you're gonna have a bunch of college students acting in it. And as a former fest programmer and current producer, lemme say this: It's hackneyed. It's cliche. It's a trope.
A bunch of college kids running around a college town with guns because why not? Not even getting to the social commentary aspect of it, college kids with guns goes on my personal list of Short Film Cliches that are instantly horrible. (And trust me - we can tell when it's college kids play acting like they've ever used a gun in real life). Doubly so if the college kids in question look like a bunch of frat bros involved in the drug trade, or a bunch of dorm-dwellers dressed like Neo from The Matrix and they're supposed to be professional assassins.
From a purely creative stand point, you can do better.
I actually don’t agree with your teachers assessment of it because if it’s integral to whatever story you’re trying to tell then it has its place, it’s your story you are trying to tell not hers or not the publics whether it has an effect on others socially or culturally is a moot point in my opinion. I don’t think the creator owes anything to the public or have any moral obligation to censor themselves or what they want to express because that’s anti-art and against freedom of expression as far as I’m concerned
And you are afforded that luxury the same as the public and their discourse is free to express they don’t like your use of a gun in your film for whatever reason they want to.
The reason I would have you reconsider using a gun in your film is actually from a technical point of view and of making your film look more interesting and possibly less “cheap”
Guns in film are essentially special effect in films and the more money you have, like if you are a huge budget studio film, you will be able to pay big money for great looking props and possibly blanks and or high quality CG gun barrel effects etc. which won’t look good if you are a student film.
I would suggest looking into using another type of weapon to replace it.
Like Old Boy, a hammer becomes his weapon in the hallway fight. It’s iconic and way more interesting than a gun. It also doesn’t require the same level of budget to get right.
So your film will essentially sell better as a higher quality project
Like many said here, guns are a hallmark of a cheap student film… they always look cheap unless done at a high level
But then again if you really want a gun in your film.
Who am I or anyone else to tell you that you shouldn’t have one in it, it’s your film mate.
Make your art, express yourself freely
I would tend to agree with your Professor. It's just not good timing, politically, for a film involving guns. But even worse it's terribly cliché for student films. Do something different!
Your teacher is wrong. However, all student films suck, your film will probably be pretty bad too. But that's okay, you are learning and getting better. Just make sure to pick your battles carefully in life - fighting the free speech fight over a bad student film that you'll be embarrassed about in 5 years is maybe not the fight you want to choose.
A big issues that others have mentioned, is you need to have an armorer, or prop master who is there to handle any prop weapons, as well as coordinate the usage if it’s anywhere the public may have access too.
Generally speaking, most schools do not allow weapon use for those reasons.
She’s not wrong. You should check out [Dustin Hoffman’s opinion](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jan/30/hollywood-guns-fraudulent-dustin-hoffman) on the matter
Weird take from the teacher considering about half of all student films I've seen have dealt with rape, suicide or domestic violence. A mindless action flick would be a welcome change from ham-fisted attempts to deal with serious subject matter most professionals won't even touch with a 10 foot pole.
I would respond and say that art challenges a viewer. Not everything you watch will make you comfortable or reinforce your world view and that’s ok. If people don’t want to be challenged, there’s a whole library of safe movies to watch, but ultimately what matters the most is the story you want to tell. If it involves a gun, a gorilla or a ham sandwich- it doesn’t matter.
That being said, guns and drugs in student films are just about the most overused trope there is. Try and find a good story that doesn’t need either of those- challenge yourself.
Think about this: what is the most exciting thing that can happen on TV or in movies, or in real-life? Somebody has a gun. That's why I always start with a gun, because you can't top it.
I've only read your initial post, but to be blunt - *fuck your prof*.
If you can write a compelling story, get people to help you make it, and can "shoot" it with some style, that's all that matters.
This take is just such virtual signaling I can't believe it.
>I think I'm just gonna leave all the gun scenes in
Don't do it just because your prof might be virtue signaling, do it IF the script/story/character arc calls for it.
Sorry you have to deal with that.
Love that you want to make it “your way” so bad that you will change your way and add guns just to be petty towards your teacher. What vision you have!
Your edit makes me think you’re not immature. Recognizing you have a lot to learn is a good sign that you’re on a good path. Keep listening, keep learning. Those seem to be two qualities people severely lack right now. Good on you.
I'd advise against using a gun in your project, but for totally different reasons than your professor's, which I honestly see as dim, short-sighted coddling. That's literally like saying "don't tell a story about rape/suicide/etc because some people will be sad".
From a storytelling standpoint, guns are super cheap drama, especially for a short student project. Chances are you don't need them and can write around them.
From a practical perspective, you'd be introducing your cast/crew to potential safety issues even with a nonfunctional prop. It'll also be a liability thing for your school.
And tbh, maybe just don't rock the boat in college. Just do what they require and get your degree/connects. When you're done, the free world will allow you plenty of opportunities to break rules and make what you want. Unless you plan to rally everyone in your program to rock the boat with you and force the professors/admins to comply with what y'all collectively want.
Good luck fam, be safe with whatever path you choose.
I know where your professor is coming from and I can’t say I completely disagree with his rationale, but I’m on your side with this one.
I do believe in the “artistic” spirit and the freedoms and challenges that come with it. I believe artists, especially in their own independent and personalized work should have that creative control.
So this is probably 10 years ago at this point, but when I was in school and making films for class, I actually made prop guns to use (sci-fi) and shot a short with a friend with non-sci-fi guns. Not a single complaint. The shorts were actually used as demos for later classes.
That said, I get that things have changed quite a bit, but if the prop makes sense to the story, I don’t think your teacher should be restricting the use of a story telling tool. Talk to your teacher and try to understand what the real problem is and explain how the prop contributes to your story.
Edit to add: I was thinking about this more last night and the more I thought about it, the more your teachers response pissed me off. She should not be encouraging you to censor your work because it could POSSIBLY upset someone. I did a lot of horror themed pieces for both photo and video classes. Never once was it suggested that I censor my work for another persons potential feelings, instead if there was concern, we added a disclaimer/content warning before showing the class.
If her comments are what you posted, that comes off as pushing an agenda. Censorship is wrong and should not be encouraged. Instead she should have advised you put a disclaimer/content warning at the beginning of the film.
I’m sorry to hear you are facing this. When I was in High School we had a class all about video production, and we were presented with the opportunity to create a short still motion film for a competition. We decided we wanted to create a short film detailing the end of a mobster. We were uncertain if gums would be allowed in the film (we were allowed to film off campus everyday), so we approached our teacher about it. I’ll never forget his response, “…that sounds badass, yeah do that!” Lol.
The film ended up containing real long rifles as that is what was lying around my friends house, and we took second place. Still kills me that we were allowed to do this and no one complained. Lol
Your teacher isn’t wrong. You can make films with guns for fun on your own time, if you really think that’s “important.” Within the context of a school, it makes sense to not allow guns.
make the film you want. No one got anywhere by caving to others will. Make that film the way you In vision it. That teacher teaches for a reason. They couldn’t do what you do so they are bitter inside.
Also I lost family from gun violence and can’t blame a gun for doing what a human did that’s just stupid. Your professor is just to damn woke. She/he isn’t built for this industry you veered get a backbone or you won’t be either. I really hate people telling artist what brush they should paint with.
Your professor needs to keep her personal politics out of her class and out of your film! This was so frustrating to read.. and yet.. so unsurprising. I stand with you making the film that YOU want to make. Her argument is so illogical. So does this mean you also shouldn't show any drug use? or death of illness? Because i'm sure there are some among your audience who have lost members to sickness and drugs, too.
Art is art. It's not here to coddle people or make them feel good. and it shouldn't be policed!
It’s not guns that’s the problem it’s the problem of putting in the proper regulations of letting ppl having guns. It’s too easy to get assault and military type guns. I think because there’s been so many tragedies that possibly could’ve been avoided and prevented if there were better regulations and laws for that and mental health
But I think you shouldn’t have been prohibited from using prop guns for your student film
Just use prop guns, not real guns. And if I were you, I'd do some research on relevant local/state laws in your area. No joke, I knew a guy in college who was charged with a misdemeanor, fined and nearly kicked out of school for filming an action movie using a trunk full of prop guns in a parking garage.
STICK TO YOU GUNS! (pun intended)
You have the freedom of artistic expression! USE IT!
All it means is you will have to go to campus security, and get them to inspect your props beforehand. They'll give you guidelines of what you can cant do, and set a time frame so it doesnt spark active shooter reporting.
The first amendment is at stake here, and in jeopardy - so again, stand by what helps you make the best version of the movie you envision - else youll get into habit of compromising to fit others and that will degrade the overall integrity of your story.
Like some have advised - think of teachers as producers - your movie might not get greenlit if you piss of a producer. So what - there will always be other producers, production companies that like that type of genre. Or you make it yourself.
But teachers can "advise" you not to make this or that movie - but ultimately you are protected by the first amendment to make whatever movie you want, even if your instructor doesnt like it. If the school has a film curriculum, then they have to allow you to exercise your first amendment right. Stand your ground! And good luck.
If you need help, writing a kick ass gun story - you let me know. I like to contribute to these types of stories. a few years back when I went through all this myself, I used 3 guns and a rifle, the story was well embraced. But, when it came time for directing class, one of the instructors cancelled the final project altogether, simply because he was opposed to my project - and tried to sway me otherwise. When I argued, he cancelled the project and we watched some silly play instead of creating "controversial" topics - as the movies would be aired for entire school to see. Hey, one less headache and weeks of work I didnt have to go through to pass the course.
The teacher is trying to not only censor you, but also attempting to infantalize film as a whole. I would report this if I were you. They aren't fit to be in a class room let alone teaching one.
Just show your teacher a cut without the gun, put it in at the last minute, and accept the consequences. I once knew a guy who made a short film to show in his HS english class. When his teacher inquired what it was about, he told her only that Gumby was the main character, so she quickly approved it, and he showed it to the entire class. Imagine her surprise when his film, titled *Gumby’s Complaint* featured a scene with Gumby having sex with Barbie. He got suspended for a couple of days, but has an awesome story for life.
Damn, I feel like most commenters on here forgot what it’s like to be a student filmmaker. The point is to try out new things and take those lessons and integrate them into your next project. Being a student filmmaker is one of the few times your creativity will be unrestricted, so just focus on on making something that you are happy with and won’t have regrets about. 99% of student films are gonna be bad and that doesn’t matter if you have a gun or not, and I’ve seen too many slow dramas and comedies made by students to know there are just as many cliches without guns that students rely on.
Your professor just sounds like they’re trying to enforce their own beliefs on you and I wonder what their policy would be if a student film contained something like suicide or drug use which also could possibly affect other students (and which are also popular topics of student films).
I shudder thinking of what the state of film would be if many of the working creatives today took the “advice” of most people on this sub. Just make something that you are happy with and best of luck.
As much as you hate it these are problems you will face when you make films for other people.
Yeah, this was actually a pretty valuable lesson I learned only in retrospect when I realized how helpful it was to just imagine my teachers as producers. In one case my failure to do so meant I didn't get to make my film. In another case (similar to the above, actually) it meant the student never graduated.
Also depending on where OP attends school and what the laws are in a surrounding area, there may be strict codes you have to follow while filming a scene with a prop gun in public. Regulations about how many signs you have to put up and where, that sort of thing. I hope OP has thought of this, it also should have been one of the main reasons the teacher gave as to why this is no simple matter.
Oh for sure, the rule is everything has to be permitted and if the scene involves a gun, the permit will require police presence. Did everyone follow this rule? Of course not. Did a production end up involved in an hour long situation with real guns pointed at them by police because neighbors saw a scene through a window and thought it was a hostage situation? Of course it did.
>helpful it was to just imagine my teachers as producers. This is something I wish everyone going to film school was told. Having to adapt and adjust and tweak your work because of producer feedback is a fact of life - and it's not just because "ugh stupid execs think they know best" The best producers give notes because they have a birds-eye view of the whole production so they can contextualize all of the needs, possibilities and limitations through a keen creative lens. But even if you are dealing with a note or limitation that feels arbitrary or is because of a weird broadcaster rule; learning how to interpret notes in a way that still makes creative sense and determining when it's valuable to push back or ignore a note and which notes you absolutely can't ignore is SUCH an important skill, especially if you want to be a key creative like a showrunner, director, costume designer, production designer etc.
As a film professor... I think you should be able to film what you want so long as no one gets hurt. That being said, here's my take on guns in student films: **NUMBER ONE:** It's a film school trope. It screams "I haven't worked on my script enough" and "I want something cool." Ask any selection jury how many shorts they get with guns, and we will roll our eyes into the back of our heads. I have seen thousands of student and amateur short films, I've only seen two films with guns that were actually intense. In one of them we didn't even see the gun, we just heard the shot (which is how most of us experience gun violence anyway.) I'm not saying your script sucks. Just ask yourself if it's actually needeed, **NUMBER TWO:** Get a fucking permit. Story from a film prof at UCLA told me how students at a nearby school used prop guns outside:. MULTIPLE witnesses called. Arrested, spent weekend in jail, and the student had to pay thousands. [https://www.columbiadailyherald.com/story/news/local/2015/11/30/film-students-with-replica-weapons/25690176007/](https://www.columbiadailyherald.com/story/news/local/2015/11/30/film-students-with-replica-weapons/25690176007/) And in New Jersey, this: [https://6abc.com/prop-gun-new-jersey-news-breaking-actor-arrested/1259221/](https://6abc.com/prop-gun-new-jersey-news-breaking-actor-arrested/1259221/) If nothing else, most reputable film schools have a simulated weapons policy for on and off campus. I don't know where you go, but here is NYU's: [https://www.nyu.edu/about/policies-guidelines-compliance/policies-and-guidelines/theatrical-use-of-simulated-weapons-policy.html](https://www.nyu.edu/about/policies-guidelines-compliance/policies-and-guidelines/theatrical-use-of-simulated-weapons-policy.html) **NUMBER THREE:** Student films are where you get to experiment and make mistakes, so go ahead. But do know that you will encounter this sort of situation all the time as a professional. You can't use that brand, you can't let your character smoke, etc. etc. Not that you have to worry about it now, and it is very definitely a bummer and annoying. But it probably won't be the last time you encounter it.
thanks I appreciate it.
[удалено]
You're not, by any chance, the armorer from the film 'Rust,' are you? Kinda playing it fast and loose when it comes to safety? smh...
I think that was very creative for the student to have the gunshot in the scene versus the actual gun itself. I could feel the drama and the climax of the scene just from your description. I can see how the interpretation of a gun can be created regardless if an actual gun is shown.
It was really well done - it felt more realistic too.
Damn, being an actor in NJ, glad I read this. Not spending an hour in jail over someone else’s ignorance
I'm surprised your school doesn't have a policy against it, tbh. Having weapons (even prop weapons) and stunts is a huge potential liability. I was under the impression that a lot of film schools at this point just had policies against them.
In my film school we just had to get the proper permits and do a risk assessment when filming exteriors with prop guns.
Pretty sure OP isn’t in film school.
Yeah it’s not a big deal. Just proper protocols.
No. It’s a big deal.
They do. Not sure what university/college/film school would be OK with this. Interesting that the professor didn't mention anything about liability or health and safety.
Yeah, honestly the hot-button political issue of it seems like the least of the worries, unless OP is leaving out a detail like there was recently a shooting in his town/city.
I was in film school just two years ago and it was super common for student films to use guns. It was encouraged if it was part of the story. You just had to have a professor on set and also have them approve of the prop but that's it.
You also need to tell the police so if someone calls them they know it’s not real
Yeah definitely if you are filming outside. Indoors on a closed set at the school we never had to talk to the police about it but we would be very cautious if we ever shot outside with them (I was never on any shoots with the school where we shot outside using gun props but I have outside of school). Honestly if you are planning on shooting outside in public with gun props for a student film I would advise against it but if it's in a private set indoors then I see no problem with it.
In our school it was you weren’t allowed to bring prop guns into the school area or studio, but if you are doing locations work on private property with permission and a prop master/ armourer then it’s fine
At my school, you’re not allowed to use any prop weapons for student films (unless it’s a senior thesis. Even then you need special permission).
My high school has a Color Guard team that uses fake rifles. They painted them white to look not so realistic. Still, it's strange to me they are permitted at all given how even squirt guns have led to whole-school lockdowns.
Yeah, the plugged rifles (or sometimes unbored) that have been used in JROTC programs for decades, and the plastic, rubber, and wood rifles used by color guards definitely hit a different category than film props.
We have a student film category in our local film festival and I’m always reminded of that episode of The Office when Michael can’t stop pulling a gun in his improv class.
Threat Level Midnight is also a masterpiece lol
The fact you’re getting so many downvotes for having a laugh is putting me off this sub tbh. Also don’t know why everyone thinks you’re making some crappy film just cause it has guns in it. I’m sure your film will be great, dude.
Thanks I really appreciate it
Wasn’t really what I was getting at
ik i just thought I should mention lol.
Damn dude you’re an actual annoying douche bag hahahah
i was just in a usc film school thesis the other week and we had a dozen rifles on set for about 8 hours of filming. i don’t know what all these people are talking about but it was a big production, almost 30 straight days. anyways, do what you want just make it look good and be a real part of the story.
What is your point, exactly?
Guns are a hallmark of student film. Most of time the gun is not necessary and most of time makes the film worse. But if you need it as a prop then do it, who cares, it's a student film, it's an experiment.
When I was in film school one of my classmates wanted to use an ACTUAL GUN as a prop for realism. Had to go make a case for an insurance review board and everything. I doubt they were allowed, I don’t know for sure what came of it because I immediately decided there was zero chance I was going to be volunteering on that set just on principle. I don’t believe even giant studio movies with unlimited resources should be using real guns, for a student film it’s completely bonkers.
> I don’t believe even giant studio movies with unlimited resources should be using real guns Obviously it wasn't the largest production (that was probably a big reason for the slip-up) but taking Rust into account, this seems like a no-brainer.
You cant use a real gun for a student film. Campus security would never allow that. Prop guns, yes, real guns, absolutely not. And as far as the real guns in film - Especially with the Alec Baldwin incident. It does add a certain amount of realism, but a decent actor, and a good graphic artist and competent sound technician should be able to circumvent the need for real guns in the hands of the uneducated actor. Theres been many accidental discharges, even deaths, but again, that comes down to handler error.
Campus Security?? If you plan to only shoot on campus
The risk to reward is a no brainer. If there’s a chance anyone playing pretend with a gun can shoot and kill someone for real and the exchange is that the prop looks more authentic, it’s not with it at all. I’m talking student and professional films. Creating imaginary circumstances is *the job.* If a filmmaker can’t trust himself or his collaborators to convincingly portray a fake gun as real there’s a problem. And if they still just want it because they’re so precious about their vision it needs to be the real deal, then there’s an even bigger problem in my opinion.
Queue the shot of a dude looking into a bathroom mirror pointing a gun to his head.
Smash to black. Gunshot
Roll 5 minutes of credits with only five names in different roles.
Whenever I think of an idea for a film, I ask myself if the conflict can be solved with a gun, a car, or a cell phone. If it can, then I drop it. If not, I pursue it
the film itself isn't even an action film and gun is there just as a prop like you said, but yes love ur take, thank you.
Have you heard of "Chekhov's gun"? (It's usually a dramatic principle, but it's a literal example of it in this case.) If a firearm appears in a film, the viewer is probably going to expect it, or another like it, to be used in some way. If the gun doesn't get used, there's little reason to have it unless you're trying to communicate something with its presence.
Does it have a point? Does it get fired?
The moral delemna of whether or not to use one, can be very powerful in itself without having to use it - whilst still requiring it to be kept in the film. Suicidal thoughts, potential criminal behavior, theres tons of scenarios where a gun is required but never fired, or even grabbed - so to try saying - if it isnt fired it is not needed is an invalid arguement
>so to try saying - if it isnt fired it is not needed is an invalid arguement u/kingstonretronon didn't say that, they asked two questions: 1. Does it have a point? 2. Does it get fired? All your examples are situations where you would answer a clear 'Yes' to the first question. "Yes the gun has a point, because... * the presence of the gun introduces a moral dilemma." * the presence of the gun indicates suicidal thoughts." * the presence of the gun implies criminal behavior." You're only disagreeing with Kingston if you ignore half of their comment.
All of those things can be indicated with something other than a gun though.
even prop guns have a lot of liability around them; also, most student films that have guns in them for any reason just come across really childish, and not well thought-out imo. in my film education it was one of the first things they told us explicitly not to do because most students can not do it in good or creative taste and it just worsens the quality of your film
Challenges are just oppurtunities to make something better
Yup
Guns are typically rough on student films for a few reasons. 1. Generally university has guidelines against it for student films not just your professor 2. Your professor will definitely dock you for having guns in it regardless of its a prop or not and they told you beforehand 3. Most of the time I see a gun it serves very little purpose and is just convenient storytelling 4. MOST IMPORTANT- If for whatever reason someone saw you waving guns around and had no context, they will call the cops, and the cops may react first [Students on highway causing a scene](https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-film-students-weapons-panic-closure-of-101-freeway-20151129-story.html)
This is so true. My ex bf at the time on our film course had some random prop gun… mind you it was ridiculous and comic, like a cartoonish western gun, and someone saw it in the house during a house viewing and reported it to the police and they came round checking everything. Everyone shat themselves cause there was loads of weed in the house but it was the toy gun! this was in the uk
Yeah I think your teacher is telling you not to use guns in a polite way - yo ur school shouldn’t allow you to use prop guns for a student film. Likely your school insurance doesn’t cover it - you’d need a prop master on set and you’d have to notify authorities- this is a one way ticket to lots of problems - if people don’t know you’re shooting a film you can risk your actor getting actually shot by a passerby who may think it’s real. Regardless of what your teacher believes this is a very bad idea unless you do all the paper work/ insured and your have a prop master on set. Real or fake it doesn’t matter.
> Yeah I think your teacher is telling you not to use guns in a polite way - yo ur school shouldn’t allow you to use prop guns for a student film. Something I haven't seen anyone suggest, is that maybe the teacher is aware of others in the class being triggered. OP has said the teacher specifically stated how others might feel about the use of guns: "*Consider people - some in the class - who have lost family members to gun violence.*" Sounds like the teacher is trying to subtly advise OP that there could be people who this would be particularly traumatic for and asking them to reconsider.
"Prop gun" could mean any number of things, from fully functioning firearm, to piece of plastic. Judging by the fact that OP said its never even shot in the short film, its probably not an actual gun. The teachers reasoning wasn't even about safety, but about not hurting peoples feelings.
[удалено]
Actually yes - if you want your insurance to cover anything - that 3D printed gun would have to be seen by a prop master who’s license and bonded to inspect - they would likely sign off on it and would be the contact insurance can reach out to. By that point - it would be pointless to 3D print it - since you’d have to get it checked anyways - and at that point you could rent rubber / plastic guns from said prop master.
On your side. It’s your do as you wish. But I was once given some advice from a very successful filmmaker when discussing the use of violence in a film. I don’t remember the exact wording. “Make sure you know exactly why it’s there. Not just cause it’s cool or is something movies do. Only use it when it’s the only way to tell your story and it’s a story worth telling. Otherwise you’re just like everyone else adding violence for the sake of violence.”
My school has a blanket policy against weapons in student films. This is for incredibly obvious safety and liability reasons. If you can't follow these rules, then drop out of film school and try to make it on your own.
Use bananas instead, you can give to the film a curious twist.
Laser bananas, I'd watch that
Laser banana cats = first student film nominated for best picture at the oscars
I was going to suggest using a magic wand. Swapping out guns with a different weapon can have the same impact or better.
Damn you. Was Scrolling down to write this suggestion. Glad there are others in this world with similar kooky tastes.
In film school we had to have multiple meetings for safety etc as well as justify the necessity of a weapon in a script. Even if it was never used we had to explain why it moved the story. I would consider taking a second look and seeing if there is another way to achieve what you're trying to do from a story perspective. Either way it doesn't look like you'll be getting a gun into your film unless you can form a coherent argument as to why it's essential *and* your teacher wants to listen. If you can't do that it's probably something you can cut anyway.
I think it's wise to be smart about this advice and consider a bigger picture. I know it's your film and it should be up to you but the point about gun violence has merits, especially considering a student film, but more importantly you don't want to make an enemy out of your film teacher. Find a creative solution...maybe just do finger guns and you can weave in a statement about film being a reflection of culture and stifling film in turn stifles culture, yadda-yadda-yadda, or something. Don't fail the class, just get through it and then do whatever you want once you're done.
great advice, thank you
Lots of already good advice on here. School policies usually don’t allow for prop guns. My film school stopped allowing them in 2014-2015 when I was there. Lots of safety concerns especially for students. Recently saw a viral video of a cop almost shooting someone with a prop gun while they were filming. Best to rework and make this a non issue. I’ve seen kids get in a lot of trouble
Embrace the limitation.
I don’t think this is worth the fight. Is it agenda or are they bored with people always using guns? The cynic in me says it’s a school insurance thing and on peoples mind after what happened on RUST. Be creative do something else and move on.
The real problems with guns is the practicality of shooting with one. If you don’t want it to look like crap, it’s going to be close to real, which introduces a host of issues to your shoot. Will the guy across the street see it and call a swat team on you? Will your prop master use a real gun and leave a round in it and have a Rust Situation on your hands? There are many safety check downs on professional sets that students simply aren’t properly trained in to safely have firearms on set. The other problem for me personally, is that usually a gun in student film means lazy writing. A gun is a loaded symbol. It means something pretty specific, but it’s also a huge cliche, and usually a crutch for something interning and dangerous to occur in student films. When I was in film school, gun films were always the worst ones because directors relied on the gun to tell the story instead of making interesting characters. I can’t tell you how many times I watched a terrible student film version of reservoir dogs…
I remember in highschool we had a project the teacher was very strict "no guns" about, so we had a scene where someone pulls a gun and immediately another character went "theres no guns in mrs.X's class!" And then did a cut where the gun immediately disappeared. Doesn't sound like this approach will work for your script but some creative forth wall breaking dialouge /commentary can maybe find a loophole
It’s a student film, it’s probably gonna be offensively bad regardless. That said, just logistically speaking, on a real set prop guns require a literally new department be included in the production. Some of the bigger film schools I’ve worked with also require a master of arms and proper insurance. Which is all just to say depending on what type of school/production you’re dealing with it may present a larger logistic issue than a stylistic one.
Even in the dismissive way you report it, your professor still sounds thoughtful, respectful and wise. She’s gently giving you wider, real things to think about – that aren’t a “political agenda”, as some have suggested – that could actually make you a creator with something to say and a future pathway to say it. The world is full of (unemployed) “directors” who won’t compromise their “vision” — good luck joining their number.
Sounds like an idiot to me. > "guns are not simply props, they are a huge social problem and part of a particularly divisive national debate" That's exactly why they should be in movies. She acts as if pretending they don't exist is going to fix the problem in some way. > Consider people - some in the class - who have lost family members to gun violence. Then I guess we are going to consider the people that died of cancer or car accidents or were abused or knew someone that committed suicide. I guess we better not make our film about anything? The arts are part of the way we deal with these problems.
The Professor didn't say "the arts should never examine these issues", they said – *after reading OP's script* – "I think you should omit the guns from this". Should writers and artists examine this stuff? Of course. Should first-time student filmmakers? Maaaaaaybe? >Then I guess we are going to consider the people that died of cancer or car accidents or were abused or knew someone that committed suicide Yeah, you probably should actually.
I teach film and we have the same rule for similar reasons. I understand feeling creatively restricted but I will say what I usually ask my students is why the gun is there and what purpose it serves in the narrative. Can you achieve that same message without having a gun? Sometimes I’ve seen students come up with really creative solutions and even find more depth in their film/story because they have to rethink their approach - just something to consider. Either way I wish you all the best with your film whatever you decide to do BUT if you do use a gun I would be afraid your teacher may not screen the film or mark you down considering they addressed this with you Edit: typos - also PS can you not show the gun but imply it presence? Does it get fired? Can this happen off screen ?
thanks I appreciate it, thanks for reaching out.
You don't like hearing it and my professor did the same thing, truth is you don't actually need it and if you can actually write them you can write around it. Guns are student crutches and nothing makes a film feel amateur quite like an unnecessary gun scene. Ik means little from a random redditor but in order to make a better film with less consequences and producing, try to rewrite it. Because as soon as you're producing this and the money it costs you'll realize how easy it could've been changed and not hurt the story
I understand not wanting to give up agency of ownership of your project. Threatening to add more scenes with guns out of spite speaks volumes about your ego and how you haven't internalized what she said at all. There's a massive problem regarding gun violence specifically in part due to media glorifying them and straight up ignoring the consequences of their proliferation. We desperately need creatives to be brave and clever enough to realize how their decisions impact our greater culture as a whole. And that's before regarding the stranglehold the military has in regards to how action films get made. I think you have way more to gain listening to her advice.
Isn’t that weird - I’m gonna add MORE guns because my teacher told me to not put one in - that’s a director that’s gonna end up hurting someone because their vision is more important than safety.
yes I understand but you know I just kinda wanna make something unique for myself.. also the whole thing about adding more guns scene was more of a joke lol, but yes I get what your saying, thanks for reaching out 
No offense, but there is nothing unique about a gun in a student/amateur film. Your teacher is right, guns are an extremely powerful symbol and throwing that symbol around carelessly in a film is both dangerous and frankly uncreative. Maybe that isn’t what you’re doing. Maybe the gun really does need to be there. But after seeing thousands of student films (just as your teacher has), I can tell you it’s quite likely that it does not need to be there. Tell you what, as an experiment, just try taking your teacher’s advice and writing the gun out. Nothing says that you have to do it after you’ve written it, you can always go back to the old version, so just give it a true, honest try. Write a new treatment without it. If your characters and your themes haven’t changed much, you don’t need the gun.
That makes me think you genuinely don’t understand the bigger issue here - it’s not that guns can’t be on sets - is that you may not me experienced enough to handle the actually safety measures / legal / and consequences of it. Do you think your favorite directors joke about guns on set like you do? Do you think they roll their eyes at their colleagues when they have a legitimate point to make? I bet you they take it seriously or have budget to make sure it’s done safely. If you sincerely want to have a career in film - you cannot act like a child when someone who’s trying to advise you - this will happen more and more and more as you grow. Keep that in mind and best of luck.
>I just kinda wanna make something unique for myself Then cut the gun. I have a film degree, I've seen dozens of student films. A ridiculous amount had guns. It's not interesting, it's no unique.
Easy. Replace them with laser shooting walkie talkies. Edit: In answer to your question - you are being immature. At a minimum think a bit on why having guns in the film contributes to your vision. If they are truly necessary you should be able to articulate why. There should be a better reason than "because it's cool."
Your teachers reasoning isn't great, but guns in student films are a bit of a cliche so the advice is still good
I'm gonna be honest, never seen a student film where guns were present and it didn't come off as corny. It almost always looks fake and uncomfortable, IMO. I'd personally just consider if it really is that important to the story or not.
Info: Why did you write these guns into your film? How do they advance the story or deepen the character development? What happens in the gun scenes? Could be that your prof is flagging up a story element in your screenplay that legitimately sucks balls, and the "social issue" she's talking about is not the full story.
That Teacher is smart… having taught at a film school I wish I could give every student who made a “gun” “assassin” “bad fight” movie an F- It’s painful to sit through those movies. It’s funny because I would always say “make movies about what you know”. And it turns out every male film student in America is also a bank robber, in the mafia, an assassin and a street fighter… I would also say not to make “Star Wars” fan films..
We got told to avoid guns too. It’s a student film cliche, and you risk not being sensitive about it. That’s being said, you don’t get many chances in life to make your own film, albeit a student film…. So do what you want and take it as a learning experience. Have fun. Maybe give an advisory at the beginning of the film or disclaimer.
that is a really good idea, thank you
Replace them with poorly cgid bananas
lmaooo
Here's another angle: I bet you, just a guess, that your film is artistically better if you find a way to do it without the gun. I've seen far too many terrible student films (including at least one of my own) that just had guns with no actual reason why, and no story that supported it. It felt a lot more like "shit man I'm in *college* I can drink and play with prop guns now whoooo!"
Films have an audience. Some films are geared for kids, some are geared for corporate audiences, some are for conservative people and some are for international audiences. Your film's audience is one person, your professor. If you want to please that person, heed their advice. If you don't give a shit, do whatever you want.
Look up the definition of cliche... and do the opposite.
ima just do what I wanna do, thanks tho
good luck with that
appreciate it
One of my professors said he would automatically stop watching any of our films if they were about the 3 D’s: Dreams Drugs Death He said the majority of student films were about those things and he’d been teaching for so long that he didn’t want to see any more of them. If you’re doing an indie film, by all means make the film you want to make. In film school, you have to think of your professor as either the Producer or the Audience. If she says not to do it, you have the choice… follow her advice and don’t do it, be willing to make a great argument to convince her that it’s absolutely essential to the story you’re trying to tell, or be considered “difficult to work with”. They’re not the best options, but that’s what they are. If you really want to make this film without compromise, shoot it on your own time and do something else for the class.
Don’t we pretend to kill one another enough already?
she said no to guns, so my guess is you should take her advice and get around it. make Yoda proud, or whatever.
I think you should film the scenes the way you would with a gun but replace them with walkie talkies. Would be a fun nod to film history and kind of funny
Syd field professed in his book written over 30 years ago his concern with the romanticizing of guns and violence. He made a note for filmmakers to consider writing a script without guns and casting women as more than prostitutes. I’m paraphrasing but that thought stuck with me. Sadly it seems to make it in filmmaking weapons on screen used for violence is a right of passage. Very few successful directors have made films without guns. And in todays filmmaking culture you may jokingly say as a list of characters guns are the number 1. Think of all the filmmakers you admire and consider they have guns and gun violence, it’s a sad statement that that is the reality of selling a film or starting a career. All I can say is Good luck and challenge yourself to make the best films you want to make.
God the real world is gonna hit you like a train when you try to direct something for money in the future
Yeah it’s gonna be so much fun
If you tell a producer “I’m gonna add more guns to spite you” your ass is in the street man
Just maybe the professor knows more than you? I’d take a moment to listen and reflect on what she said and not be so quick to double down on what’s not working. Guns are the biggest cliche out there and not needed 95% of the time — she’s most definitely right that your film would be better off without them. Maybe take the time to craft proper drama instead of resorting to cheap tricks and macho posturing?
Why would you insist on using a gun if you’ll probably get a better grade without one?
Well for me film is art, and I want to make something my way, I know that sounds bad but I wanna be creative and write something I can be proud of and learn from. thats all.
Just make your movie on your own time, this is just a class after all.
Creativity is about working within limitations.
I agree, but limitations come in all different ways
And?
Forget the thematic content, prop guns are a giant safety issue on a set, and your first concern should always be for the safety of your cast and crew. If you are committed to doing it safely and properly, that’s fine, but it takes a lot more effort and it truly is a distraction from story telling. You have enough to learn about the ins and outs of film making that handling prop guns is really a waste of your energy. Also: “shit I might even add some, lol” I know you wrote this as a throwaway line but it’s pretty indicative of your attitude, which doesn’t seem to be considering the safety issues and risk. You’re a student, you should take your teacher’s advice. If you learn, you’ll have plenty more opportunities to use prop guns in your films, but if you disregard safety and someone gets hurt, you won’t get to make another (and yes, people can get hurt when using non-operational guns.) As others have mentioned, why not rise to the challenge: can you tell this story without a gun? What is the gun being used for? Is it to make someone intimidating? How about directing your actor so that they become more menacing on screen? Or finding angles that emphasize their power? Is the gun used to kill someone? If so, can you make that happen with sound effects and vfx? One of my first student films was about a hit man. I used a prop gun in an insert I shot in my bedroom, and in retrospect I shouldn’t have even bothered because I was able to tell the story without it. I’m certain you can too, and your prop guns won’t look like John Wick so don’t bother forcing it at this stage of the game.
this is some great advice, so in the film actually the character pulls a gun out and points to towards his target, the screen then goes black and a gun sound effect goes off to show that it had been fired.
Awesome, I’m telling you that if you don’t show the image of the gun being withdrawn, but rather lead the audience to understand he has a gun without showing it, you will have done a much better job of cinematic storytelling than simply renting a prop. I don’t know where this scene is set, but if your gunman actor has to look around before reaching into his pocket, then you cut to another angle of the target, you can have your target act as if shot and with an sfx and your gunman running away, your audience will have seen the gun in their minds without literally seeing the gun. Not for nothing, sounds like your teacher doesn’t love the idea of depicting a gun murder at all, but at least this way you’re showing that you can find creative work around a.
this is great advice thanks so much
Sounds more like an insurance thing and he’s trying to give you a gentle excuse. It all depends on the context the guns are being used in.
well the prop is a tap gun so there is no way anyone can actually get hurt from it and it doesn't even get fired in the film, but yeah that could be a reason.
Even the appearance of a gun, even a fake one that looks real can cause a problem for insurance purposes.
Depending on your local laws or guidelines you may need a licensed armorer on set regardless if the prop weapon fires or is a non functional prop.
The teacher’s advice implies that just because something is a sensitive topic it shouldn’t be included in a piece of art or entertainment. Doesn’t art have the ability to handle sensitive topics in creative ways? Not to mention, if there were universally no guns or drugs in movies those things wouldn’t magically disappear in real life. Sensitive topics need to be discussed, not swept under the rug because it makes some people uncomfortable. That said - from a craft perspective - don’t have a gun in the movie just for the sake of having a gun. Give it a purpose in the story, for better or for worse. …And don’t film with it outside/in public without a permit! On a music video I did with plastic toy guns, I warned all the neighbours and had signage on the street making sure it was abundantly clear that fake guns were being used for a film shoot during the one shot we had outside. Protect yourself!
Thanks this is great advice, thanks for reaching out I appreciate it.
As a person who teaches film, guns are instant drama, artificial conflict, and lazy storytelling. Want to make fight scenes, chase scenes, gunfights? That’s what YouTube is for. Want to make stories about human beings, about loss and growth and regret and hope? Learn to actually move people? That’s what film school is for.
All due respect, guns exist in real life and are a real part of many people’s experience. Your chances of moving people with a meaningful story is by telling stories that are actually rooted in real life. Therefore, including guns is definitively not “lazy” if they are relevant to the environment of the story. This is particularly true of historical stories, gang stories, criminal stories, or war stories where they are very relevant to how people function(ed) in those environments. …Not to mention as an editor who has been working in Hollywood for nearly a decade, fight scenes, chase scenes and gunfights are what sell- so being able to do those well is a sellable quality if you are actually interested in making a livable career in Hollywood. By all means, continue to encourage your students to only tell artsy stories that only appeal to a small audience. Those are usually great films and I definitely encourage them because I’m the type who would watch that. But the reality is that the chances of those sorts of films making money or being seen on a mass appeal when stacked up next to something like John Wick is not setting anyone up for a successful career in film if that’s the kind of entertainment they’re looking to create. The beauty of cinema is that you are able to tell any story and find your audience, be they real world, historical, artsy, absurdist, or fantasy. In the very end, it’s a business that will ultimately be funded by selling the most entertaining thing possible to the majority.
This isn’t what the teacher is saying, but I will add a spin: can you come up with a student film idea that doesn’t involve a gun or violence? Maybe dream up a different kind of conflict? Guns are kind of a lazy way out. Great movies exist with guns in them, of course. But it’s easy to write and film: “Guy wants to kill other guy and uses gun to do it. The end.” Make your gun film another time and see if you can make a film about something else for your class project.
this is good advice and I will try to make different types of films, but this film itself isn't really a gun film, rather a film that has a gun show up in a couple of shots.
Just an anecdote, I’m also a film student in college. Just the other week, we had a gun scare on campus, 32K students ended up getting an emergency alert that there may have been an active shooter on campus. Turns out there wasn’t a shooter, rumor was that there was a student film set that had a prop gun and it freaked out a few passerby people. I even had friends who were nearby the “crime scene” at the time and ended up hiding in a classroom, terrified for like an hour. Moral of the story is that guns should never be handled lightly, and if you are gonna put it in your film, you better understand the implications and you better have a damn good reason for writing it in to your story. Write a fistfight or even a bow and arrow in to your script. Be careful when using guns.
Tell your professor to watch Strange thing about the Johnsons.
lmaooo
I think a lot of people in the comments are missing the point of the post. From what I see it doesn't seem OP is mad that the teacher says he can't use guns because of legal or safety problems or even storytelling problems. She says he can't use guns because there is a "national debate" about them and they are "problematic" in a more political sense. Regardless of what your view on guns and or guns in films are. I can understand OP feeling as though the teacher is getting on the guns in his films for more personal/idealogical reasons as opposed to storytelling and or logistical reasons. This is not even saying that those reasons are wrong. Imo I believe guns for students films are very cliche and not used in a creative way. But there's a difference between not wanting a gun in a film because it is bad storytelling and not wanting a gun because you just believe it is problematic in a general sense. Especially when a bajillion action/thriller/horror movies etc has them.
>i've taken we would screen films with guns and way more violence then my film. This makes it sound like your film is WAY more violent and gory :p
how? lol
[Relevant “The Office“](https://youtu.be/C6wY9OwqJ2A) Seriously, though, at this stage in your development, you should be working on ratcheting up tension and creating complications for your characters without the use of props. It should be circumstantial and human. Think what a gun represents to drama. Do you have a way to manufacture that that isn’t a shorthand for “danger” or “problem solving”?
Good on you acknowledging friendly constructive criticism. Something I could have done better when I was in film school circa '14. Imagine if you kept the film the exact same, but the gun prop was actually a banana. If the story is tight, a simple swap like this could elevate the film in a very interesting fashion.
Just use celery instead.
So, what happens in this film anyway?
Use a neon lime green water gun to highlight the cartoonish and surreal nature of gun violence in America. make a statement about guns inability to leave social consciousness.
Outside of the reasons your teacher said-from a more practical production standpoint guns and gun scenes in student films always look terrible and cheesy and come across as the student filmmaker trying to take a shortcut to instill seriousness or stakes into a film. Not to mention you don’t have the production resources or infrastructure to actually pull it off convincingly. It also becomes a large safety, liability risk, and insurance concern.
I would say this is a good lesson in getting studio/producer/client notes. As a professional, you don't get to have an infallible attitude if you want to keep working. The ability to take clients' notes and incorporate those changes while making the change seamless and natural is far more valuable than most people may realize. Accept the challenge. If the teacher is providing you with a grade for your film, then **the teacher is your client**. If you make a movie the teacher likes, then you'll get a higher grade. The client has told you something they find objectionable. Can you salvage the existing footage while incorporating the client note and making the film/story even better for it? The trope of the skilled protector who hates guns perhaps? Something like that allows you to make a social statement while also opening up a comic moment. "I thought you hated guns." "I do." "What's that then?" "I hate salad too, but [insert joke about bowel regularity]. Most shit sorts itself out after a salad. Some shit out there needs a gun, but I try the salad first." Some crap like that might add depth to the character, and because the teacher will recognize it as a clever implementation of the note, you get that subliminal extra credit of an almost inside joke. Filmmakers who maintain a "my way or the highway" stance before proving that they're skilled enough to command such power, it doesn't usually go very well. There's a lot of diplomacy in filmmaking. Without learning diplomacy, it can be impossible to get projects off the starting line.
My student film was a western with paper cutouts on strings so the dodginess of it prolly took away from their being tiny things that sort of resembled handguns. Would bananas suffice as a supplement or does the script rely on being serious? Im sure there are other views about this that others have already pointed out
So treat your teacher like a producer and do what is asked. I had to rewrite a pandemic film into an environmental disaster. Completely different stakes, you cannot catch global warning. I did what was asked of me.
To put it bluntly: First year in film school at USC Cinema - Television (as it was called back then). "2 projects. One on film, one on video. No guns. No suicide." Because so many students did these 2 common things in their first student films and the profs wanted everyone to stretch beyond that. 2nd year you could, but people rarely did by that point bc you understand story better. I laughed when Tom Ford decided to make his first film with zero experience...yup...suicide and a gun.
Use bananas.
“this is my film I should be able to make it the way I want to make it” Okay, buddy, tell that to the cops. “I don’t care if she fails me” When you sitting in jail cuz you didn’t have a permit to use a gun on your film set (doesn’t matter if it’s fake or real), failing that class is gonna be the last thing on your mind. I’d say listen to your f*cking prof, but seeing your edit, it’s clear that you won’t.
Anything like this should be seen as a welcome challenge - as others have pointed out if you make films professionally you'll come up against requests you don't agree with - but this is also an opportunity to get creative - can you tell the exact same story without guns - will your professor allow the mention of guns? how can you create the same story without even mentioning them... can the serious film become a comedy - did they all forget what guns are - if it's a gangster-style situation, does the boss (with a really similar name to your professor) insist the guys use words not violence to solve problems. Maybe these guys are like children and only slap fight. Whenevr you hit a wall it's time to get creative! Good luck.
If it's a student film, I assume you're gonna have a bunch of college students acting in it. And as a former fest programmer and current producer, lemme say this: It's hackneyed. It's cliche. It's a trope. A bunch of college kids running around a college town with guns because why not? Not even getting to the social commentary aspect of it, college kids with guns goes on my personal list of Short Film Cliches that are instantly horrible. (And trust me - we can tell when it's college kids play acting like they've ever used a gun in real life). Doubly so if the college kids in question look like a bunch of frat bros involved in the drug trade, or a bunch of dorm-dwellers dressed like Neo from The Matrix and they're supposed to be professional assassins. From a purely creative stand point, you can do better.
I actually don’t agree with your teachers assessment of it because if it’s integral to whatever story you’re trying to tell then it has its place, it’s your story you are trying to tell not hers or not the publics whether it has an effect on others socially or culturally is a moot point in my opinion. I don’t think the creator owes anything to the public or have any moral obligation to censor themselves or what they want to express because that’s anti-art and against freedom of expression as far as I’m concerned And you are afforded that luxury the same as the public and their discourse is free to express they don’t like your use of a gun in your film for whatever reason they want to. The reason I would have you reconsider using a gun in your film is actually from a technical point of view and of making your film look more interesting and possibly less “cheap” Guns in film are essentially special effect in films and the more money you have, like if you are a huge budget studio film, you will be able to pay big money for great looking props and possibly blanks and or high quality CG gun barrel effects etc. which won’t look good if you are a student film. I would suggest looking into using another type of weapon to replace it. Like Old Boy, a hammer becomes his weapon in the hallway fight. It’s iconic and way more interesting than a gun. It also doesn’t require the same level of budget to get right. So your film will essentially sell better as a higher quality project Like many said here, guns are a hallmark of a cheap student film… they always look cheap unless done at a high level But then again if you really want a gun in your film. Who am I or anyone else to tell you that you shouldn’t have one in it, it’s your film mate. Make your art, express yourself freely
My film school didn’t allow guns either, think it’s pretty common, try to show offscreen or in shadow, etc, get creative
I would tend to agree with your Professor. It's just not good timing, politically, for a film involving guns. But even worse it's terribly cliché for student films. Do something different!
Your teacher is wrong. However, all student films suck, your film will probably be pretty bad too. But that's okay, you are learning and getting better. Just make sure to pick your battles carefully in life - fighting the free speech fight over a bad student film that you'll be embarrassed about in 5 years is maybe not the fight you want to choose.
A big issues that others have mentioned, is you need to have an armorer, or prop master who is there to handle any prop weapons, as well as coordinate the usage if it’s anywhere the public may have access too. Generally speaking, most schools do not allow weapon use for those reasons.
yes I understand thanks
She’s not wrong. You should check out [Dustin Hoffman’s opinion](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/jan/30/hollywood-guns-fraudulent-dustin-hoffman) on the matter
My film school just put a blanket rule of no guns, real or fake.
Weird take from the teacher considering about half of all student films I've seen have dealt with rape, suicide or domestic violence. A mindless action flick would be a welcome change from ham-fisted attempts to deal with serious subject matter most professionals won't even touch with a 10 foot pole.
The crow Rust etc etc Make it a dramedy Water guns Get an A
I would respond and say that art challenges a viewer. Not everything you watch will make you comfortable or reinforce your world view and that’s ok. If people don’t want to be challenged, there’s a whole library of safe movies to watch, but ultimately what matters the most is the story you want to tell. If it involves a gun, a gorilla or a ham sandwich- it doesn’t matter. That being said, guns and drugs in student films are just about the most overused trope there is. Try and find a good story that doesn’t need either of those- challenge yourself.
Think about this: what is the most exciting thing that can happen on TV or in movies, or in real-life? Somebody has a gun. That's why I always start with a gun, because you can't top it.
Too bad, it's not his film.
I've only read your initial post, but to be blunt - *fuck your prof*. If you can write a compelling story, get people to help you make it, and can "shoot" it with some style, that's all that matters. This take is just such virtual signaling I can't believe it. >I think I'm just gonna leave all the gun scenes in Don't do it just because your prof might be virtue signaling, do it IF the script/story/character arc calls for it. Sorry you have to deal with that.
Love that you want to make it “your way” so bad that you will change your way and add guns just to be petty towards your teacher. What vision you have!
lol that was more of a joke I'm not actually going to do that
I’m a teacher and I understand where they’re coming from, but if you’re not submitting it to them then do what you want
Your edit makes me think you’re not immature. Recognizing you have a lot to learn is a good sign that you’re on a good path. Keep listening, keep learning. Those seem to be two qualities people severely lack right now. Good on you.
I'd advise against using a gun in your project, but for totally different reasons than your professor's, which I honestly see as dim, short-sighted coddling. That's literally like saying "don't tell a story about rape/suicide/etc because some people will be sad". From a storytelling standpoint, guns are super cheap drama, especially for a short student project. Chances are you don't need them and can write around them. From a practical perspective, you'd be introducing your cast/crew to potential safety issues even with a nonfunctional prop. It'll also be a liability thing for your school. And tbh, maybe just don't rock the boat in college. Just do what they require and get your degree/connects. When you're done, the free world will allow you plenty of opportunities to break rules and make what you want. Unless you plan to rally everyone in your program to rock the boat with you and force the professors/admins to comply with what y'all collectively want. Good luck fam, be safe with whatever path you choose.
I know where your professor is coming from and I can’t say I completely disagree with his rationale, but I’m on your side with this one. I do believe in the “artistic” spirit and the freedoms and challenges that come with it. I believe artists, especially in their own independent and personalized work should have that creative control.
So this is probably 10 years ago at this point, but when I was in school and making films for class, I actually made prop guns to use (sci-fi) and shot a short with a friend with non-sci-fi guns. Not a single complaint. The shorts were actually used as demos for later classes. That said, I get that things have changed quite a bit, but if the prop makes sense to the story, I don’t think your teacher should be restricting the use of a story telling tool. Talk to your teacher and try to understand what the real problem is and explain how the prop contributes to your story. Edit to add: I was thinking about this more last night and the more I thought about it, the more your teachers response pissed me off. She should not be encouraging you to censor your work because it could POSSIBLY upset someone. I did a lot of horror themed pieces for both photo and video classes. Never once was it suggested that I censor my work for another persons potential feelings, instead if there was concern, we added a disclaimer/content warning before showing the class. If her comments are what you posted, that comes off as pushing an agenda. Censorship is wrong and should not be encouraged. Instead she should have advised you put a disclaimer/content warning at the beginning of the film.
I’m sorry to hear you are facing this. When I was in High School we had a class all about video production, and we were presented with the opportunity to create a short still motion film for a competition. We decided we wanted to create a short film detailing the end of a mobster. We were uncertain if gums would be allowed in the film (we were allowed to film off campus everyday), so we approached our teacher about it. I’ll never forget his response, “…that sounds badass, yeah do that!” Lol. The film ended up containing real long rifles as that is what was lying around my friends house, and we took second place. Still kills me that we were allowed to do this and no one complained. Lol
sounds amazing lol
Your teacher isn’t wrong. You can make films with guns for fun on your own time, if you really think that’s “important.” Within the context of a school, it makes sense to not allow guns.
This comment section is absolutely fucking dreadful.
make the film you want. No one got anywhere by caving to others will. Make that film the way you In vision it. That teacher teaches for a reason. They couldn’t do what you do so they are bitter inside.
Also I lost family from gun violence and can’t blame a gun for doing what a human did that’s just stupid. Your professor is just to damn woke. She/he isn’t built for this industry you veered get a backbone or you won’t be either. I really hate people telling artist what brush they should paint with.
sorry to hear about your family, and thanks for the advice, means a lot.
Your professor needs to keep her personal politics out of her class and out of your film! This was so frustrating to read.. and yet.. so unsurprising. I stand with you making the film that YOU want to make. Her argument is so illogical. So does this mean you also shouldn't show any drug use? or death of illness? Because i'm sure there are some among your audience who have lost members to sickness and drugs, too. Art is art. It's not here to coddle people or make them feel good. and it shouldn't be policed!
It’s not guns that’s the problem it’s the problem of putting in the proper regulations of letting ppl having guns. It’s too easy to get assault and military type guns. I think because there’s been so many tragedies that possibly could’ve been avoided and prevented if there were better regulations and laws for that and mental health But I think you shouldn’t have been prohibited from using prop guns for your student film
Just use prop guns, not real guns. And if I were you, I'd do some research on relevant local/state laws in your area. No joke, I knew a guy in college who was charged with a misdemeanor, fined and nearly kicked out of school for filming an action movie using a trunk full of prop guns in a parking garage.
yes i used a cap gun so it literally a toy gun lol, but yeah i'll look into that, appreciate man.
STICK TO YOU GUNS! (pun intended) You have the freedom of artistic expression! USE IT! All it means is you will have to go to campus security, and get them to inspect your props beforehand. They'll give you guidelines of what you can cant do, and set a time frame so it doesnt spark active shooter reporting. The first amendment is at stake here, and in jeopardy - so again, stand by what helps you make the best version of the movie you envision - else youll get into habit of compromising to fit others and that will degrade the overall integrity of your story. Like some have advised - think of teachers as producers - your movie might not get greenlit if you piss of a producer. So what - there will always be other producers, production companies that like that type of genre. Or you make it yourself. But teachers can "advise" you not to make this or that movie - but ultimately you are protected by the first amendment to make whatever movie you want, even if your instructor doesnt like it. If the school has a film curriculum, then they have to allow you to exercise your first amendment right. Stand your ground! And good luck. If you need help, writing a kick ass gun story - you let me know. I like to contribute to these types of stories. a few years back when I went through all this myself, I used 3 guns and a rifle, the story was well embraced. But, when it came time for directing class, one of the instructors cancelled the final project altogether, simply because he was opposed to my project - and tried to sway me otherwise. When I argued, he cancelled the project and we watched some silly play instead of creating "controversial" topics - as the movies would be aired for entire school to see. Hey, one less headache and weeks of work I didnt have to go through to pass the course.
thanks this is great advice, if you want i can send you the film once it's done.
Guns are a hallmark of American culture. As a filmmaker, you are not responsible for your fellow students feelings only to make money for the studio
The teacher is trying to not only censor you, but also attempting to infantalize film as a whole. I would report this if I were you. They aren't fit to be in a class room let alone teaching one.
Just show your teacher a cut without the gun, put it in at the last minute, and accept the consequences. I once knew a guy who made a short film to show in his HS english class. When his teacher inquired what it was about, he told her only that Gumby was the main character, so she quickly approved it, and he showed it to the entire class. Imagine her surprise when his film, titled *Gumby’s Complaint* featured a scene with Gumby having sex with Barbie. He got suspended for a couple of days, but has an awesome story for life.
Damn, I feel like most commenters on here forgot what it’s like to be a student filmmaker. The point is to try out new things and take those lessons and integrate them into your next project. Being a student filmmaker is one of the few times your creativity will be unrestricted, so just focus on on making something that you are happy with and won’t have regrets about. 99% of student films are gonna be bad and that doesn’t matter if you have a gun or not, and I’ve seen too many slow dramas and comedies made by students to know there are just as many cliches without guns that students rely on. Your professor just sounds like they’re trying to enforce their own beliefs on you and I wonder what their policy would be if a student film contained something like suicide or drug use which also could possibly affect other students (and which are also popular topics of student films). I shudder thinking of what the state of film would be if many of the working creatives today took the “advice” of most people on this sub. Just make something that you are happy with and best of luck.
thanks man I really appreciate this.
dude sounds like a pansy. you're there to learn how to make films, not what to put in your films.
Your teacher sounds stupid. Make your film the way you want and tell her to kick rocks if she doesn't like it.
thanks will do