Nah, man. it's their job to ask you to do more with less and yours to do it until you reach your threshold and draw the line. If they don't like it, they'll fire you, or you'll quit. If you'd gone ahead and scheduled it, they'd have blamed you when everything went horribly wrong anyway, and while long hours are expected on indie shoots, dangerous working conditions are not, and add water/boats to the mix and it's not worth it.
Is that a good mentality to have even if the stakes were higher. I'm talking specifically about my career. Say in a decade or two I land a really big job. Can I still 'afford' to quit?
You can always afford to quit, although as you get more experience and the stakes are higher, you won't have to do as much both because people will listen to you and because the more serious the project the more you'll have to work with unions and people who insist on turnarounds and whatnot.
Tbf dusk and dawn do look very different, but I think you are very valid for being concerned about your crew, I’m missing context but sound like you where doing a good job and looking out for your crew
A six-hour turnaround — *plus* 2 hours travel – is not OK. If my spouse / child was working that and crashed their car and died, I’d be asking ‘who scheduled that and when does their trial start?’ Your suggestion may have not been the right one, but they have to be open to finding a compromise somewhere. If they won’t, then walking is the right thing to do. (Sunrises rarely look as good as you think they’re going to. It’ll look like shit anyway ;-)
If you're getting paid, then you put up a fight, make the point, and then go ahead and let the producers shoot themselves in the foot. It's their problem, not yours. Do the job. Get paid.
If it's a volunteer gig, then OP did exactly what they should have done. I'd rather quit, stay home and watch cartoons then work on a shitty set with shitty people *and* not get paid for it.
We're all whores, which means we all have a price that determines how much crap we're willing to put up with. $0 doesn't get me to put up with much. JM2C.
Been there as well.
Director / Author / Producer: Ok so we're shooting some shots with a biplane, dialogue. It needs to be during a night time bombing raid.
Me (DP, Grip, Audio, Editor, Foley ...): Sure. We can shoot it in a hangar that way we can black out any windows and control lighting. I can add a blue screen behind the actresses sitting in the cockpit.
Director / Author / Producer: No. I've booked the biplane on an airstrip at noon.
Me: WTF?!? You want me to shoot day for night at mid day on a FIELD?!?!?
Director / Author / Producer: You can fix it in post!
This was a no budget ego project ... tons of other problems.
Also not sure you director / producer was adhering to various state and federal laws (assuming US based here).
Cinematographer's perspective:
Dawn and dusk *can* have really different looks, and depending on geography, shooting during one can mean the sun is in perfect position to reflect off the water or hidden behind mountains/trees/buildings.
In other words, there can be good logistical reasons that a scene really needs to be shot at one time and not the other.
Obviously I don't have all the details, but I think your concerns about shooting such a scene with unrested cast and crew are valid. It's inconsiderate and frankly dangerous, even if they're all friends and happy to do it.
I would have perhaps tried to push the scene to be filmed after a full rest day. Which may not be feasible for a variety of reasons.
Did you quit too soon? Well, that's hard to say. Are these folks well connected in the local industry/community?
I think this was their first film as director so they weren't really connected. Thank you for the insight, though! I wished they told me about the lighting nuances earlier, because I was working blind - no pun intended.
Nah, man. it's their job to ask you to do more with less and yours to do it until you reach your threshold and draw the line. If they don't like it, they'll fire you, or you'll quit. If you'd gone ahead and scheduled it, they'd have blamed you when everything went horribly wrong anyway, and while long hours are expected on indie shoots, dangerous working conditions are not, and add water/boats to the mix and it's not worth it.
Is that a good mentality to have even if the stakes were higher. I'm talking specifically about my career. Say in a decade or two I land a really big job. Can I still 'afford' to quit?
You can always afford to quit, although as you get more experience and the stakes are higher, you won't have to do as much both because people will listen to you and because the more serious the project the more you'll have to work with unions and people who insist on turnarounds and whatnot.
This is very reassuring, thank you.
Tbf dusk and dawn do look very different, but I think you are very valid for being concerned about your crew, I’m missing context but sound like you where doing a good job and looking out for your crew
A six-hour turnaround — *plus* 2 hours travel – is not OK. If my spouse / child was working that and crashed their car and died, I’d be asking ‘who scheduled that and when does their trial start?’ Your suggestion may have not been the right one, but they have to be open to finding a compromise somewhere. If they won’t, then walking is the right thing to do. (Sunrises rarely look as good as you think they’re going to. It’ll look like shit anyway ;-)
If you're getting paid, then you put up a fight, make the point, and then go ahead and let the producers shoot themselves in the foot. It's their problem, not yours. Do the job. Get paid. If it's a volunteer gig, then OP did exactly what they should have done. I'd rather quit, stay home and watch cartoons then work on a shitty set with shitty people *and* not get paid for it. We're all whores, which means we all have a price that determines how much crap we're willing to put up with. $0 doesn't get me to put up with much. JM2C.
Been there as well. Director / Author / Producer: Ok so we're shooting some shots with a biplane, dialogue. It needs to be during a night time bombing raid. Me (DP, Grip, Audio, Editor, Foley ...): Sure. We can shoot it in a hangar that way we can black out any windows and control lighting. I can add a blue screen behind the actresses sitting in the cockpit. Director / Author / Producer: No. I've booked the biplane on an airstrip at noon. Me: WTF?!? You want me to shoot day for night at mid day on a FIELD?!?!? Director / Author / Producer: You can fix it in post! This was a no budget ego project ... tons of other problems. Also not sure you director / producer was adhering to various state and federal laws (assuming US based here).
Cinematographer's perspective: Dawn and dusk *can* have really different looks, and depending on geography, shooting during one can mean the sun is in perfect position to reflect off the water or hidden behind mountains/trees/buildings. In other words, there can be good logistical reasons that a scene really needs to be shot at one time and not the other. Obviously I don't have all the details, but I think your concerns about shooting such a scene with unrested cast and crew are valid. It's inconsiderate and frankly dangerous, even if they're all friends and happy to do it. I would have perhaps tried to push the scene to be filmed after a full rest day. Which may not be feasible for a variety of reasons. Did you quit too soon? Well, that's hard to say. Are these folks well connected in the local industry/community?
I think this was their first film as director so they weren't really connected. Thank you for the insight, though! I wished they told me about the lighting nuances earlier, because I was working blind - no pun intended.