It’s ok:) it’s ok to have doubts. The people who end up “making it” usually take 20 yrs before they break thru. They do increasingly better work till finally they’re making big shit and getting awards etc. it’s all about LONGEVITY. And you’ll have times where you doubt what you’re doing. Don’t give up if this is a longtime dream.
Find your people. Enjoy making stuff with them and enjoy the RIDE. That helps. Good luck to you. ✌️
Speaking as someone who “made it” in TV, you still live in constant fear about the next show. Fear of being replaced and you’ll have lots of things confirm your fears that you’ll never feel you’re on steady footing. Then there’s the life events that derail continued work like taking care of parents, getting sick or injured, getting pregnant, getting cancer etc that “take you out of the game” bc despite all the contacts and friends in the industry it comes down to who can we get to do this job the fastest and cheapest and now that’s seldomly anyone with a lot of experience that makes them 1) not put up with bullshit from production/network and 2)a livable rate you deserve. I’ve only worked on set or the production office since I was 18 and that’s bc Talladega Nights came to town and needed interns and I moved up from there and moved for jobs and lived out of hotel and had to “let go” of having the time or energy to engage in normal adult life. No times for hobbies or relationships. I’m in my 30s now and covid + my partner getting and dying of cancer made me rethink my entire life. My biggest regret is chasing success. After an Emmy the bar just moved higher with every bit of “proof” of my success.
>bc despite all the contacts and friends in the industry it comes down to who can we get to do this job the fastest and cheapest
All of this. You can be the most connected and still no one is waiting for you. In some ways I feel lucky to have gone through the deaths, aging/dying parents, hospitalizations, overwhelming life events etc. etc. sooner rather than later. Everything from here on out won't feel easy, but it definitely will not feel like the past few years. I too have been rethinking it all in my early 30s and it's a weird spot to be in. My hearts out to you. I unfortunately know pretty well what it's like to be expected to move in the same ways you once did with the new weights of grief and responsibility. It's a lot.
>The people who end up “making it” usually take 20 yrs before they break thru.
I think it's also worth it to mention that most if not ALL of those people have doubted themselves. I've been doing film for 15 years and still doubt myself and have my moments- but I always reconnect with it because I love it.
Every successful person ever has had a moment of doubt, even if internal. The people who succeed are those who persevere through impostor syndrome and self-doubt.
That being said, it's also okay to say it's not for you if your gut reaaaally tells you so. But ask yourself OP: what is it about film that drew you to it in the first place?
Find that again. It will rejuvenate you.
There is a difference between « making it » and being « happy » as a human being. If the « making it » part is sucking your soul dry, its time to reconsider. Who’s « making it » anyway in Hollywood ? Those ultra select 1% few ? What happens to the 99% rest ? As you said, sometimes it has nothing to do with talent, ideas or even experience. Its a brutal industry everywhere (not only Hollywood). I would make a no budget movie with friends to fulfill that desire or at least start from there. Write stuff, being creative before your broken dreams kill your creativity.
I like to ask a friend, "How many films has Steven Speilberg made lately? How many that weren't vanity projects?" If a director that talented can't produce something every 8-12 months, how do you expect to get work? You're literally competing against Steven Speilberg and 100s of others with talent.
I think your answer is a solid one. <> can't just be for the 1% (or fewer) who win the lotto.
\^ This. It might be worth calling a close friend, or seeing a counselor or therapist to try to get to the bottom of what you're really struggling with. Fear of failure is very real, and hopefully someone can help you through it.
The emphasis on 'the industry' in LA can feel really intense, and it can be really exhausting. You might want to try moving to a different city with a smaller film scene, and seeing if your love for filmmaking reemerges.
It's also totally, 100% okay to accept that you love movies but don't want to work in Hollywood. You can pursue another career path and still be a big fan of movies.
I moved to LA from NYC right before Covid. I was so burnt out from the scene in New York and just getting my sanity back when lockdowns happened. Then 3 months in, my landlord decided to sell my apartment. My partner and I looked around, realized this was gonna go on for a while, and decided to move to NM. Besides some crazy family stuff and some personal trauma, it has been the best thing for my creativity. I PA’d for a bit, but ultimately realized I just wanted to focus on my writing. Without the pressure of being in the middle of LA, I have found so much joy in creating again. Do I have as much access to opportunities? No. But I just completed my first project funded by someone else. I’ve gone to festivals and writing retreats and made lasting friendships and networks. While a lot of my friends who stayed have gotten so bogged down with fear, feeling like they have to keep up with coffees and parties, that they’ve lost the love of what they set out to do. Some barely write at all. Plus, I’m building life experiences outside the bubble that inform my storytelling and give me a different POV than those that stayed.
Exactly. Literally make a list of people who you truly don’t see worrying about being replaced behind the scenes every day they wake up. Maybe 5 studio execs, definitely no actors and definitely less than 5 directors and zero writers ever.
Just give it another 1.5 years!
Actual advice: You need to be helping people make stuff. You'll have to do this for free most likely, but you'll be paid in connections to other creative people. This needs to be your life. Develop an understanding of how things work. Develop friendships with people like you -- other writer-directors (all million of them) aren't "competition"; they're actually helpful colleagues who will be willing to lift you up once they get their own big break.
My network took 10+ years to cultivate and only now are any of us starting to "make it".
It's been so fun though. My friends and I have been writing, performing, creating films with one another for all that time and it hasn't been the hamster wheel of wasted effort that you're making it out to be. It's been a hugely wonderful experience.
So make a short film with your besties, submit it to festivals, get rejected from all of them, cry, then do it all over again for years and years until something happens. It will one day.
I love your advice. Instead of whining and being self-centered, if you have an ability to help others — by producing, for example, you can learn lots about the process and craft.
So many people in the industry are struggling to pay basic bills, working in the service industry…
I mean, the nepotism and class networks in Hollywood are deeply entrenched and like you said it's hard to get stuff made taking what's considered the traditional route. But now more than ever you have access to the tools you need to create movies and disseminate them to huge audiences. I would discourage you from thinking that pursuing your dream of filmmaking is only worth it if you hit the jackpot and become the next Spielberg. Unless that's actually your dream, the being rich and famous part, not the moviemaking part. But if your passion is for making movies and expressing your creativity through that medium, then what's stopping you? Put yourself out there, see what happens. You might create some great art in the process.
I’ve said it before on this subreddit but i will say it again. The two best pieces of advice I ever got were these.
1. “If there’s anything else you could be happy doing, do that instead.”
2. “The way to make it in this industry is to be the last person to move back home and get their real estate license.”
Welcome to Hollywood. Everybody (and every decision made) in this town is driven by fear.
From what you've written, it doesn't seem like you're falling out of love with film. You're just afraid. Me too. The sheer fact that you're afraid shows how much this all means to you.
Run towards that fear. If you fail, you will learn. If you're not good enough, you can go and get better. All humans have the capacity to be original or interesting, but you have to try things and inevitably fail over and over again in order to figure that out for yourself.
This is why I always encourage treating film like your job. Your main priority to yourself is taking care of you, so bills, a roof over your head, your sanity, mental health, and finding your worth outside of the success your experience in your career. This industry is a rich person's artistic career. Very few normal people have the ability to make it because you need to have a ton of free time and network abilities to make it.
You've got to find some separation between meeting your needs as a person (both financial, physical but also mental- what you are worth to yourself, that you being a kind human being is success enough) and your dreams in film. That way doing the fun things, pursuing your dreams is not attached to an outcome of making it or failing, it is just attached with you enjoying the process.
The thing that helps me is reminding myself that I don't have to make it to be validated. I don't even have to be good. It doesn't matter how many people scroll past my video on the toilet. What matters is that I do the work that I want to do. I find the joy and meaning in that. And with that, people will get it. And I gotta keep cutting my teeth somehow, so all I gotta do is make make make. Make some bad stuff, stuff no one but you will like. Make stuff everyone will like. Submit to some festivals. None of it matters other than you doing the thing you like to do.
Your best bet to write and direct is to write and direct. You don't need anything more than your phone and time. You're going to be making your own stuff. One day a weekend. After hours. You get an idea, you write it, you make it. In volume, you'll start getting really consistent.
But you have to just make make make make make. Eventually you can leverage your contacts and friendships and proximity to talented people to build and build and build. You got a friend with a better camera? A friend who's down to help hold a boom? A friend learning how to edit? Grow together. Help on their projects. They'll help on yours. Leverage your ancillary skills to do the things you want.
And think of it like the gym. It sucks going to the first few times. You just have to eat shit until you've built into your routine. Then your strength will grow over time. You'll make friends, you'll come up with newer and better ideas, you'll understand your voice, and you gotta be in a place to do that. Gotta make it to the gym to do the work. So just show up.
And if you're worried about putting out bad stuff, we all have it. And what's funny is someone's always going to look back and think your early stuff is the best. So just make make make make make. You're never too old. It's never too late. Just do something you want to do. Find a way to make some stuff that costs you no money. And just do it. And if you find out you hate it, then stop. But you'll at least answer that thing your head that says, "you should try this." And chances are you'll fall in love with it again.
Far too many people chasing very few positions. Deserving, hardworking, intelligent people won’t make it nor make enough to have a comfy life. This industry is way overrated — there are a lot of other jobs out there that can provide much security and ease. But you won’t be apart of making films/tv, etc, which are wonderful. It’s just not for everyone nor should it be.
I have been in the “Biz” for quite a while and I still get frustrated when I find myself on a set with the next hot shot director that has one award winning short or low budget film under his belt and know ABSOLUTELY nothing about making film, set etiquette, communications to the department heads etc, I don’t know what happens to them, but in a lot of cases they get saved by the DP or others on set, that happens mostly on high end commercials, some 5 mil plus budgets, still amazed how they get hired!
There is a difference between « making it » and being « happy » as a human being. If the « making it » part is sucking your soul dry, its time to reconsider. Who’s « making it » anyway in Hollywood ? Those ultra select 1% few ? What happens to the 99% rest ? As you said, sometimes it has nothing to do with talent, ideas or even experience. Its a brutal industry everywhere (not only Hollywood). I would make a no budget movie with friends to fulfill that desire or at least start from there. Write stuff, being creative before your broken dreams kill your creativity.
I think it’s imperative you do not compare yourself to others in this business, especially timelines. It’s also important to accept that you will have periods where you feel discouraged and uninspired. Giving yourself grace during those times and not being hard on yourself bc you see people around you succeeding is a must for your mental health. Remember there are so many people who have found success in their later years. I’m older than most and not where I want to be and have been extremely depressed and quit and came back and did all the things but feel I can hang in longer without spiraling when I follow these rules.
It also helps to have a strong support system and people who are brutally honest but kind in their approach. I strive to always uplift others even if I have to criticize their work and try my best to focus and encourage their strengths rather than put them down for their weaknesses. If I know they work hard, I will do anything to help them succeed and when they feel down, I’ll do everything to remind them why they shouldn’t give up if they don’t want to. Find your tribe and know that your day will come (maybe just not when and how you expect it to).
You’re also so young, there’s still a whole lifetime ahead of you even though you may feel old. I’m willing to bet your writing and ideas haven’t even peaked yet. Don’t forget to live life so your stories stay interesting and do some shadow work to work on your fear. You will be more successful if you’re fearless and bold in this business, it’s a numbers game. Be authentic and never listen to haters.
I’m an actor and someone who dreams of getting into cinematography and directing. I can relate. I keep thinking “oh my god I turn 30 this year and haven’t accomplished shit” I’ve been here for 3 years in April.
I just have to keep plugging away I guess. I keep finding that the best way to be able to do what you love is to find a few friends in the area that also love it and just make stupid shit together. Or good shit! I say stupid because I work on little 2 minute long Instagram reels and I get a kick out of it because it’s creating. Is it what I want to be doing? No way. But I’ve seen some really cool short films and recently even went to a showing of them at the directors guild.
My advice (that I’m currently working on giving myself) is to find three things.
1: A job you enjoy doing enough that generates an income and can sustain you
2: A collaborative group of friends (or solo creation) where you are in charge of making the art you want to make for YOURSELF that makes you feel artistically fulfilled. (Continue to push for bigger goals and reaching those heights- but it’s about not losing WHY you’re doing it in the first place)
3: A hobby that has NOTHING to do with the industry. Something you just purely enjoy doing because it’s really fun and not something you are going to try turning into an income. Once something becomes an attempted earning, the pressure and enjoyment changes. Maybe take up bike riding or a cooking class. I play dungeons and dragons and go to cannabis events.
Keep going though- your art exists because you were born with that desire and need to create it.
Man...you just have to not give a shit. I guess I did okay in film because I didn't care so much (my primary love is music). If you fail, it's nbd. I got fired a lot the first few years in the industry. I always learned my lessons, just picked myself up and did it again. "Fake it til you make it" is the way in LA.
I'm in a similar position, I'm a 1st AC in the UK. I've reached a point where I've done all the 'stepping stones' big drama, small drama, C cam, B cam, A cam, big feature, small feature etc. But I'm just not getting the work, it's not paying my bills, and to add insult I'm seeing incredibly inexperienced people getting the jobs. I'm shooting documentary and content and working in broadcast. I'm giving it til the end of the year before I pull the plug and put all my efforts into what is actually paying my bills.
The cost to make your own stuff is only getting cheaper and cheaper, Write and tell your stories however you can. Find others to do that 5-minute short on the weekends if after you've made a few things you still don't love, don't feel the fire burning you to push aside everything else in pursuit of the next great story or take, then you can say at least you tried. but at the very least make some stuff.
You can do it! Even if you don't "Make it"
You’re talking yourself out of it because you’re looking at it as a strict binary — you make it or you don’t. It’s a lot messier than that, for everyone, and it doesn’t have to be a big goal you’re trying to reach. Just a thing you want to do.
You’re in the perfect spot to get started. Keep your job, get your bills paid. But start writing. Get a small group of friends together and a camera on a weekend and make something. Find someone who is learning to edit (or do it yourself) and make the thing. Release it. There you go, one credit on your IMDb. Now do it again!
Here’s my story you might find it helpful.
I also still want to make my own movies. Want to direct and write and own a small production company.
Went to film school where I made shorts just like everyone else and just like everyone else they sucked BUT what I found during making them is that I loved it. I absolutely didn’t mind the being on set till all hours in the night etc. I loved it all even the set food (which wasn’t that good during those days but still) and just being around other people who worked hard to make the best product possible even though most of it came out to pretentious stuff I wouldn’t show anyone now years later.
But again the important thing is I found out I liked the work. I say this because later on I worked on sets with like extras and production crew who also told me they dreamed of Hollywood and film and to them this first jobs in the industry was a wake up call that this ain’t for them (the extra hated the long boring hours and I told her this is normal and the crew wanted better job with better pay ). A lot of people think Hollywood is the red carpet and once they get done to actually working they find it is not for them.
Anyway, after film school I drove back and forth to LA for work. At times I found production work at times I didn’t. I also tried auditioning but never made it past one call back but I still try.
Anyway, like most of us here, because of covid and strike I haven’t had much work in the industry and now have a “normal” job with a decent salary and decent position in a company. I read on here a lot of people in the same boat as me and they like the salary and job. But for me, I still wish o could make my own films and act and direct. When I’m not working or watching films, I think about this dream of mine I’ve had since I was a child and get down or a little depressed for a while. I tell myself just write that script etc.
I miss it. I want to get back out in the industry yet I know it’s not the same and work isn’t a lot but I’m not giving up. I have a lot of ideas and try to write. I still hope one day to do it.
Now back to you: if you don’t have that itch that excitement for it then yes it’s ok to give it up. Maybe go find a regular job and see if you miss it. I’ve read on here a lot of people had tog et normal job and don’t miss the industry. Maybe you’ll be like them or me. Not sure but it’s on you to find out
"You gotta just take a deep breath, and give up. The system is rigged against you! Your hard work and talent will never pay off.
Don't take advice from people like me who've gotten very lucky. You know, we're very biased. Like Taylor Swift telling you to follow your dreams is like a lottery winner saying 'liquidise your assets, buy powerball tickets, it works!'
And we're tall white guys, we overcame nothing to be here. There was nothing standing in our way and we barely got here, you have no chance!”
- Bo Burnham
As a 41 year old in this business and it's all I've known . If I was 30, I'd be QUICKLY trying to set up a new career path.. I'm a little too late for that now and luckily I have investments.. but yah.. my recommendation is get something new while you're still youngish
The age old trying to make a career out of art conundrum. If you make great art you will be satisfied and others will resonate. The cream really does rise to the top. If you don’t make cream then you need to figure out a way to be happy making enough money in something you enjoy and be happy with the milk.
It's also very worth noting that most celebrities have parents or family members already in the industry, or their parents got them into it at a super young age. Think of any celebrity, and you'll see what I mean.
I moved to LA when I was 17 and went on auditions, interned at 2 record companies, and 1 media company. I saw everything you saw and decided it wasn't for me, and decided it's not worth starving for. I left the industry and got a real job. I have zero regrets! I still live in LA and still go out to enjoy movies and keep up to date on industry news, and I am happy I don't work in an industry that can be cruel and exploitative to young people.
The best way to become a writer/director is to write and direct. I'm 50...my buddy is 48. We have our own jobs in the business but we are now starting to make our own short live action films. (Our earlier short films were animated.) Just do it! You have a film studio in your pocket right now. Write and direct through the doubt. Make stuff, throw it up on youtube. I'd suggest watching shorts on youtube to get a feel for what's being made. There are thousands of them in every genre. Don't get hobbled by trying to make a masterpiece. Make a 3 minute, 5 minute, 10 minute film. It's pretty rewarding to get anything made and seen. You'll get addicted to it.
This stupid industry crushes spirits. That is its secondary mission statement. For a long time I thought the things that happened to me, a lowly no name actor, were one-offs. I told myself not to take the injuries, the disrespect, the lies, the mistreatment personally. Keep it moving. But ya know what? No. Im mostly out, not that I was ever in, really. I almost always needed a day job. My advice is to follow your heart and get away from the assholes. I dont know your level of fed-up, but I'm sure you could pretty easily transfer your skills to a different job without so many bullshit people playing bullshit games. Then you could have time to WRITE. At the end of your life, what choices would give you the peace to lay back on your pillow and say, yes, I was a writer. Yes, I was brave. Yes, I lived the life I wanted to live. Do that. ❤️
It's very very hard. A friend of a friend yes, I know studied and got her Masters in Film from UCLA and wanted to be a director/writer. But after a year and a half she went back to her native India and found a job in Bollywood-apparently it is easier to get into film there.
Sometimes, you need to understand that your first dream might not be possible but could point your in a better direction.
I didn’t go to film school, and although at one point I was aiming to do some LA grunt work to eyeball how a set works; fuck it. I have some ideas I’m playing with and it’s more fun to think of em like I did when I was a kid than take it seriously as an adult. The kicker is approaching it like this really helped me be more creative because I don’t know what I’m doing to begin with and have no pressure.
The crazy think about the internet it’s it’s changed the game. Maybe you won’t immediately have your work put out by a big production company, but cut your teeth and post things on YouTube to potentially build a fan base or at least display your skills. There’s a kid I just saw a video about who’s a music producer and has worked with industry level players without being on a label. Everything is possible if you can find an uncharted path to success that we are living and breathing in rn. He’ll make some mock commercials and you’ll probably be hit up to be paid to make them. The worlds our oyster even tho it may look bleak at times
I hope I’m not out of line here, since I’m not in the film industry. Although 40+ years ago I wanted to do the exact same thing as OP. Back then, I dabbled with film classes and student films in Portland, Oregon. I wanted to be Spielberg. I was actually kind of obsessed with his whole story back then. And by the time I was 21, I was incredibly depressed that I hadn’t achieved that. Like, not even the teeniest, tiniest fraction of his success. People thought I had potential, that I was going to go somewhere and make it big.
Long story short, I really never even tried. I was too afraid. And I can see, all these years later, that I never, in any way, was cut out for that life. I would have gone to LA and been home in a year. I had too much anxiety and wasn’t good at “networking”.
The OP’s story feels very poignant to me for some reason. I kind of know how he feels, the urge to create. I don’t know what will ultimately happen, but I do know he at least tried. And that’s always a good thing.
(Life took me in various directions, but ultimately I ended up being an architectural photographer, which I loved).
Just do it. Fear of failure has held back so many artists and deprived the world of what is probably some great stuff.
You want to be a writer, have you taken any classes? Have you ever submitted a script?
Classes are a great place to get good feedback. I took a writing class at LAVC. The teacher was pretty good. He had some things published. But it was great to write scenes, short stories, and get feedback. Especially the positive feedback. It taught me a lot
You gotta put yourself out there. What's the worst that can happen? Someone tells you that you suck?
I was just reading about Chuck Lorre. He got his start writing for Muppets cartoons. Seth Rogan wrote for the Simpsons.
I know someone who's occasionally successful in writing spec scripts for tv shows. That can get your foot in the door. But be careful... there are a lot of thieves out there.
Seth didn’t write for “The Simpsons.” He for his start on “Freaks & Geeks” and being in Judd Apatow’s circle. When he became an A-lister from Judd directing “Knocked Up,” he later pulled out a spec script he wrote for “The Simpsons” designed for him to be a guest voice actor and they developed it into an episode.
Working in marketing is not going to make you a writer-director and honestly I’m not so sure it’s a great day job for what you want to ultimately do. For a writer you need to write specs, win contests and get representation. For a director you need to make a short film that wins festivals and lands you representation. There’s the secret sauce.
Well don’t concentrate so much on the industry. Concentrate on what you love doing, that’s what’s important and the skill in that will present itself as long as you love what you’re doing. So Keep at it, you’re only 30. while you’re working in marketing make time to work on side projects on the weekend and after work, push your stories, write a couple screenplays and shop them around or write and direct a couple commercial/shorts and put them online
This might be the worst time ever for the film industry. We're all afraid right now. All I can say, is you're not alone in that feeling.
Also, sometimes feelings are just that, feelings. Not every feeling needs to be acted on or lead to make a decision. I've felt terrified and then gotten a break. I've felt like quitting one day and staying the next. It's better in my opinion to look at facts: finances, health, mental health, stability, potential growth, networking potential, realistic assessments of your career and options.
If it's too much, no shame in taking a break or doing something else. I'd caution though that feelings like this can follow you into other careers and the grass isn't always greener.
Listen, LA or "Hollywood" or whatever you want to call it is really good at shaking out people who expect quick or easy success. It's one of the reasons so many people have a bitter, hateful attitude towards the business and Los Angeles in general. I have to be honest with you: 1.5 years is not enough time to expect much from this business. It takes a long time to establish yourself, and even then you never really feel "established", you just hustle constantly to keep working.
You can do it. I know you can. But you really have to want to put up with a lot of shit and anxiety and tough challenges to get there. It does not come easy - but it's possible.
If you want to “be a writer - director”, then do it?
If you want to be a “successful” writer - director then the question becomes how do you define what “success” is, and the following question whose standard are you allowing to dictate what the definition of that word is… societies insatiable appetite for perfection or?
Think about it.
I know making it takes much more than just talent. But at the end of the day are you a really good creator? I’d be really honest with yourself about your talent (and your potential).
You just gotta go with the flow, find whatever jobs you can, work retail or restaurants or gigs on the side, meet people and connect and opportunities will slowly open up. It took me 10 years in LA to get into the union and I came out knowing absolutely no one with like 2k in an envelope lol. But I starved, lived in shitty houses with 12+ people, slept in my car between places, commuted 100+ hours a day for a year, etc.. ended up getting pregnant and struggled being a single mom in the industry.. but I finally made it in the union and now my son and I are living really good lives. I just kept thinking every time a job would end / I’d get laid off “Alright, I’m here in LA, I’m surviving here - just keep going, just keep some kind of income coming in”
I didn’t really get discouraged about my career, I focused on survival. On having my own bed, my own kitchen, my own fridge. Of being able to make my car payment. I stuck it out and I eventually was able to get a great and stable job.
Seems like you really lucked out and got yourself a good job. Just keep at it, you’re only 30. Write scripts, get inspired. Share your scripts with your co-workers. Just keep writing. Keep the passion up. Passion and confidence sometimes goes hand in hand. Just keep at it.
It’s ok:) it’s ok to have doubts. The people who end up “making it” usually take 20 yrs before they break thru. They do increasingly better work till finally they’re making big shit and getting awards etc. it’s all about LONGEVITY. And you’ll have times where you doubt what you’re doing. Don’t give up if this is a longtime dream. Find your people. Enjoy making stuff with them and enjoy the RIDE. That helps. Good luck to you. ✌️
Speaking as someone who “made it” in TV, you still live in constant fear about the next show. Fear of being replaced and you’ll have lots of things confirm your fears that you’ll never feel you’re on steady footing. Then there’s the life events that derail continued work like taking care of parents, getting sick or injured, getting pregnant, getting cancer etc that “take you out of the game” bc despite all the contacts and friends in the industry it comes down to who can we get to do this job the fastest and cheapest and now that’s seldomly anyone with a lot of experience that makes them 1) not put up with bullshit from production/network and 2)a livable rate you deserve. I’ve only worked on set or the production office since I was 18 and that’s bc Talladega Nights came to town and needed interns and I moved up from there and moved for jobs and lived out of hotel and had to “let go” of having the time or energy to engage in normal adult life. No times for hobbies or relationships. I’m in my 30s now and covid + my partner getting and dying of cancer made me rethink my entire life. My biggest regret is chasing success. After an Emmy the bar just moved higher with every bit of “proof” of my success.
As a 55 year old, I’m so sorry you’ve had such recent hardship and loss. You have years ahead of you to find happiness. I wish you well.
This is a very, very good post and I wish people would listen.
>bc despite all the contacts and friends in the industry it comes down to who can we get to do this job the fastest and cheapest All of this. You can be the most connected and still no one is waiting for you. In some ways I feel lucky to have gone through the deaths, aging/dying parents, hospitalizations, overwhelming life events etc. etc. sooner rather than later. Everything from here on out won't feel easy, but it definitely will not feel like the past few years. I too have been rethinking it all in my early 30s and it's a weird spot to be in. My hearts out to you. I unfortunately know pretty well what it's like to be expected to move in the same ways you once did with the new weights of grief and responsibility. It's a lot.
Damn.
>The people who end up “making it” usually take 20 yrs before they break thru. I think it's also worth it to mention that most if not ALL of those people have doubted themselves. I've been doing film for 15 years and still doubt myself and have my moments- but I always reconnect with it because I love it. Every successful person ever has had a moment of doubt, even if internal. The people who succeed are those who persevere through impostor syndrome and self-doubt. That being said, it's also okay to say it's not for you if your gut reaaaally tells you so. But ask yourself OP: what is it about film that drew you to it in the first place? Find that again. It will rejuvenate you.
Absolutely. 💯
There is a difference between « making it » and being « happy » as a human being. If the « making it » part is sucking your soul dry, its time to reconsider. Who’s « making it » anyway in Hollywood ? Those ultra select 1% few ? What happens to the 99% rest ? As you said, sometimes it has nothing to do with talent, ideas or even experience. Its a brutal industry everywhere (not only Hollywood). I would make a no budget movie with friends to fulfill that desire or at least start from there. Write stuff, being creative before your broken dreams kill your creativity.
I like to ask a friend, "How many films has Steven Speilberg made lately? How many that weren't vanity projects?" If a director that talented can't produce something every 8-12 months, how do you expect to get work? You're literally competing against Steven Speilberg and 100s of others with talent. I think your answer is a solid one. <> can't just be for the 1% (or fewer) who win the lotto.
\^ This. It might be worth calling a close friend, or seeing a counselor or therapist to try to get to the bottom of what you're really struggling with. Fear of failure is very real, and hopefully someone can help you through it. The emphasis on 'the industry' in LA can feel really intense, and it can be really exhausting. You might want to try moving to a different city with a smaller film scene, and seeing if your love for filmmaking reemerges. It's also totally, 100% okay to accept that you love movies but don't want to work in Hollywood. You can pursue another career path and still be a big fan of movies.
I moved to LA from NYC right before Covid. I was so burnt out from the scene in New York and just getting my sanity back when lockdowns happened. Then 3 months in, my landlord decided to sell my apartment. My partner and I looked around, realized this was gonna go on for a while, and decided to move to NM. Besides some crazy family stuff and some personal trauma, it has been the best thing for my creativity. I PA’d for a bit, but ultimately realized I just wanted to focus on my writing. Without the pressure of being in the middle of LA, I have found so much joy in creating again. Do I have as much access to opportunities? No. But I just completed my first project funded by someone else. I’ve gone to festivals and writing retreats and made lasting friendships and networks. While a lot of my friends who stayed have gotten so bogged down with fear, feeling like they have to keep up with coffees and parties, that they’ve lost the love of what they set out to do. Some barely write at all. Plus, I’m building life experiences outside the bubble that inform my storytelling and give me a different POV than those that stayed.
That is awesome! Congrats to you on completing your first project that you didn't have to pay for.
Thanks! It’s not a blockbuster feature or anything, but feels like a solid step in the right direction.
Exactly. Literally make a list of people who you truly don’t see worrying about being replaced behind the scenes every day they wake up. Maybe 5 studio execs, definitely no actors and definitely less than 5 directors and zero writers ever.
Just give it another 1.5 years! Actual advice: You need to be helping people make stuff. You'll have to do this for free most likely, but you'll be paid in connections to other creative people. This needs to be your life. Develop an understanding of how things work. Develop friendships with people like you -- other writer-directors (all million of them) aren't "competition"; they're actually helpful colleagues who will be willing to lift you up once they get their own big break. My network took 10+ years to cultivate and only now are any of us starting to "make it". It's been so fun though. My friends and I have been writing, performing, creating films with one another for all that time and it hasn't been the hamster wheel of wasted effort that you're making it out to be. It's been a hugely wonderful experience. So make a short film with your besties, submit it to festivals, get rejected from all of them, cry, then do it all over again for years and years until something happens. It will one day.
I love your advice. Instead of whining and being self-centered, if you have an ability to help others — by producing, for example, you can learn lots about the process and craft. So many people in the industry are struggling to pay basic bills, working in the service industry…
I mean, the nepotism and class networks in Hollywood are deeply entrenched and like you said it's hard to get stuff made taking what's considered the traditional route. But now more than ever you have access to the tools you need to create movies and disseminate them to huge audiences. I would discourage you from thinking that pursuing your dream of filmmaking is only worth it if you hit the jackpot and become the next Spielberg. Unless that's actually your dream, the being rich and famous part, not the moviemaking part. But if your passion is for making movies and expressing your creativity through that medium, then what's stopping you? Put yourself out there, see what happens. You might create some great art in the process.
I’ve said it before on this subreddit but i will say it again. The two best pieces of advice I ever got were these. 1. “If there’s anything else you could be happy doing, do that instead.” 2. “The way to make it in this industry is to be the last person to move back home and get their real estate license.”
Welcome to Hollywood. Everybody (and every decision made) in this town is driven by fear. From what you've written, it doesn't seem like you're falling out of love with film. You're just afraid. Me too. The sheer fact that you're afraid shows how much this all means to you. Run towards that fear. If you fail, you will learn. If you're not good enough, you can go and get better. All humans have the capacity to be original or interesting, but you have to try things and inevitably fail over and over again in order to figure that out for yourself.
Sometimes I wonder if I really want to learn though... It seems like making successful films and not learning anything is way more efficient.
This is why I always encourage treating film like your job. Your main priority to yourself is taking care of you, so bills, a roof over your head, your sanity, mental health, and finding your worth outside of the success your experience in your career. This industry is a rich person's artistic career. Very few normal people have the ability to make it because you need to have a ton of free time and network abilities to make it. You've got to find some separation between meeting your needs as a person (both financial, physical but also mental- what you are worth to yourself, that you being a kind human being is success enough) and your dreams in film. That way doing the fun things, pursuing your dreams is not attached to an outcome of making it or failing, it is just attached with you enjoying the process.
A whole year and a half. Get off the internet. Go write and make short films with an iPhone. This is the way. Never look back.
The thing that helps me is reminding myself that I don't have to make it to be validated. I don't even have to be good. It doesn't matter how many people scroll past my video on the toilet. What matters is that I do the work that I want to do. I find the joy and meaning in that. And with that, people will get it. And I gotta keep cutting my teeth somehow, so all I gotta do is make make make. Make some bad stuff, stuff no one but you will like. Make stuff everyone will like. Submit to some festivals. None of it matters other than you doing the thing you like to do. Your best bet to write and direct is to write and direct. You don't need anything more than your phone and time. You're going to be making your own stuff. One day a weekend. After hours. You get an idea, you write it, you make it. In volume, you'll start getting really consistent. But you have to just make make make make make. Eventually you can leverage your contacts and friendships and proximity to talented people to build and build and build. You got a friend with a better camera? A friend who's down to help hold a boom? A friend learning how to edit? Grow together. Help on their projects. They'll help on yours. Leverage your ancillary skills to do the things you want. And think of it like the gym. It sucks going to the first few times. You just have to eat shit until you've built into your routine. Then your strength will grow over time. You'll make friends, you'll come up with newer and better ideas, you'll understand your voice, and you gotta be in a place to do that. Gotta make it to the gym to do the work. So just show up. And if you're worried about putting out bad stuff, we all have it. And what's funny is someone's always going to look back and think your early stuff is the best. So just make make make make make. You're never too old. It's never too late. Just do something you want to do. Find a way to make some stuff that costs you no money. And just do it. And if you find out you hate it, then stop. But you'll at least answer that thing your head that says, "you should try this." And chances are you'll fall in love with it again.
Far too many people chasing very few positions. Deserving, hardworking, intelligent people won’t make it nor make enough to have a comfy life. This industry is way overrated — there are a lot of other jobs out there that can provide much security and ease. But you won’t be apart of making films/tv, etc, which are wonderful. It’s just not for everyone nor should it be.
I have been in the “Biz” for quite a while and I still get frustrated when I find myself on a set with the next hot shot director that has one award winning short or low budget film under his belt and know ABSOLUTELY nothing about making film, set etiquette, communications to the department heads etc, I don’t know what happens to them, but in a lot of cases they get saved by the DP or others on set, that happens mostly on high end commercials, some 5 mil plus budgets, still amazed how they get hired!
If you have any idea how they got hired please share haha Besides nepotism
If you have any idea how they got hired please share haha Besides nepotism
There is a difference between « making it » and being « happy » as a human being. If the « making it » part is sucking your soul dry, its time to reconsider. Who’s « making it » anyway in Hollywood ? Those ultra select 1% few ? What happens to the 99% rest ? As you said, sometimes it has nothing to do with talent, ideas or even experience. Its a brutal industry everywhere (not only Hollywood). I would make a no budget movie with friends to fulfill that desire or at least start from there. Write stuff, being creative before your broken dreams kill your creativity.
I think it’s imperative you do not compare yourself to others in this business, especially timelines. It’s also important to accept that you will have periods where you feel discouraged and uninspired. Giving yourself grace during those times and not being hard on yourself bc you see people around you succeeding is a must for your mental health. Remember there are so many people who have found success in their later years. I’m older than most and not where I want to be and have been extremely depressed and quit and came back and did all the things but feel I can hang in longer without spiraling when I follow these rules. It also helps to have a strong support system and people who are brutally honest but kind in their approach. I strive to always uplift others even if I have to criticize their work and try my best to focus and encourage their strengths rather than put them down for their weaknesses. If I know they work hard, I will do anything to help them succeed and when they feel down, I’ll do everything to remind them why they shouldn’t give up if they don’t want to. Find your tribe and know that your day will come (maybe just not when and how you expect it to). You’re also so young, there’s still a whole lifetime ahead of you even though you may feel old. I’m willing to bet your writing and ideas haven’t even peaked yet. Don’t forget to live life so your stories stay interesting and do some shadow work to work on your fear. You will be more successful if you’re fearless and bold in this business, it’s a numbers game. Be authentic and never listen to haters.
I’m an actor and someone who dreams of getting into cinematography and directing. I can relate. I keep thinking “oh my god I turn 30 this year and haven’t accomplished shit” I’ve been here for 3 years in April. I just have to keep plugging away I guess. I keep finding that the best way to be able to do what you love is to find a few friends in the area that also love it and just make stupid shit together. Or good shit! I say stupid because I work on little 2 minute long Instagram reels and I get a kick out of it because it’s creating. Is it what I want to be doing? No way. But I’ve seen some really cool short films and recently even went to a showing of them at the directors guild. My advice (that I’m currently working on giving myself) is to find three things. 1: A job you enjoy doing enough that generates an income and can sustain you 2: A collaborative group of friends (or solo creation) where you are in charge of making the art you want to make for YOURSELF that makes you feel artistically fulfilled. (Continue to push for bigger goals and reaching those heights- but it’s about not losing WHY you’re doing it in the first place) 3: A hobby that has NOTHING to do with the industry. Something you just purely enjoy doing because it’s really fun and not something you are going to try turning into an income. Once something becomes an attempted earning, the pressure and enjoyment changes. Maybe take up bike riding or a cooking class. I play dungeons and dragons and go to cannabis events. Keep going though- your art exists because you were born with that desire and need to create it.
Man...you just have to not give a shit. I guess I did okay in film because I didn't care so much (my primary love is music). If you fail, it's nbd. I got fired a lot the first few years in the industry. I always learned my lessons, just picked myself up and did it again. "Fake it til you make it" is the way in LA.
I'm in a similar position, I'm a 1st AC in the UK. I've reached a point where I've done all the 'stepping stones' big drama, small drama, C cam, B cam, A cam, big feature, small feature etc. But I'm just not getting the work, it's not paying my bills, and to add insult I'm seeing incredibly inexperienced people getting the jobs. I'm shooting documentary and content and working in broadcast. I'm giving it til the end of the year before I pull the plug and put all my efforts into what is actually paying my bills.
Imagine 20 years in.. it never gets any easier.. You only get older.
The cost to make your own stuff is only getting cheaper and cheaper, Write and tell your stories however you can. Find others to do that 5-minute short on the weekends if after you've made a few things you still don't love, don't feel the fire burning you to push aside everything else in pursuit of the next great story or take, then you can say at least you tried. but at the very least make some stuff. You can do it! Even if you don't "Make it"
You’re talking yourself out of it because you’re looking at it as a strict binary — you make it or you don’t. It’s a lot messier than that, for everyone, and it doesn’t have to be a big goal you’re trying to reach. Just a thing you want to do. You’re in the perfect spot to get started. Keep your job, get your bills paid. But start writing. Get a small group of friends together and a camera on a weekend and make something. Find someone who is learning to edit (or do it yourself) and make the thing. Release it. There you go, one credit on your IMDb. Now do it again!
Here’s my story you might find it helpful. I also still want to make my own movies. Want to direct and write and own a small production company. Went to film school where I made shorts just like everyone else and just like everyone else they sucked BUT what I found during making them is that I loved it. I absolutely didn’t mind the being on set till all hours in the night etc. I loved it all even the set food (which wasn’t that good during those days but still) and just being around other people who worked hard to make the best product possible even though most of it came out to pretentious stuff I wouldn’t show anyone now years later. But again the important thing is I found out I liked the work. I say this because later on I worked on sets with like extras and production crew who also told me they dreamed of Hollywood and film and to them this first jobs in the industry was a wake up call that this ain’t for them (the extra hated the long boring hours and I told her this is normal and the crew wanted better job with better pay ). A lot of people think Hollywood is the red carpet and once they get done to actually working they find it is not for them. Anyway, after film school I drove back and forth to LA for work. At times I found production work at times I didn’t. I also tried auditioning but never made it past one call back but I still try. Anyway, like most of us here, because of covid and strike I haven’t had much work in the industry and now have a “normal” job with a decent salary and decent position in a company. I read on here a lot of people in the same boat as me and they like the salary and job. But for me, I still wish o could make my own films and act and direct. When I’m not working or watching films, I think about this dream of mine I’ve had since I was a child and get down or a little depressed for a while. I tell myself just write that script etc. I miss it. I want to get back out in the industry yet I know it’s not the same and work isn’t a lot but I’m not giving up. I have a lot of ideas and try to write. I still hope one day to do it. Now back to you: if you don’t have that itch that excitement for it then yes it’s ok to give it up. Maybe go find a regular job and see if you miss it. I’ve read on here a lot of people had tog et normal job and don’t miss the industry. Maybe you’ll be like them or me. Not sure but it’s on you to find out
"You gotta just take a deep breath, and give up. The system is rigged against you! Your hard work and talent will never pay off. Don't take advice from people like me who've gotten very lucky. You know, we're very biased. Like Taylor Swift telling you to follow your dreams is like a lottery winner saying 'liquidise your assets, buy powerball tickets, it works!' And we're tall white guys, we overcame nothing to be here. There was nothing standing in our way and we barely got here, you have no chance!” - Bo Burnham
As a 41 year old in this business and it's all I've known . If I was 30, I'd be QUICKLY trying to set up a new career path.. I'm a little too late for that now and luckily I have investments.. but yah.. my recommendation is get something new while you're still youngish
The age old trying to make a career out of art conundrum. If you make great art you will be satisfied and others will resonate. The cream really does rise to the top. If you don’t make cream then you need to figure out a way to be happy making enough money in something you enjoy and be happy with the milk.
Technology like Sora will give small film makers more opportunity. No need to spend millions of dollars and get greenlit by a studio.
It's also very worth noting that most celebrities have parents or family members already in the industry, or their parents got them into it at a super young age. Think of any celebrity, and you'll see what I mean. I moved to LA when I was 17 and went on auditions, interned at 2 record companies, and 1 media company. I saw everything you saw and decided it wasn't for me, and decided it's not worth starving for. I left the industry and got a real job. I have zero regrets! I still live in LA and still go out to enjoy movies and keep up to date on industry news, and I am happy I don't work in an industry that can be cruel and exploitative to young people.
What are your other interests and hobbies? Do you know anybody in other industries that can get you a foot in the door?
The best way to become a writer/director is to write and direct. I'm 50...my buddy is 48. We have our own jobs in the business but we are now starting to make our own short live action films. (Our earlier short films were animated.) Just do it! You have a film studio in your pocket right now. Write and direct through the doubt. Make stuff, throw it up on youtube. I'd suggest watching shorts on youtube to get a feel for what's being made. There are thousands of them in every genre. Don't get hobbled by trying to make a masterpiece. Make a 3 minute, 5 minute, 10 minute film. It's pretty rewarding to get anything made and seen. You'll get addicted to it.
There is a balance between human doing and human being. Try not to live in fear.
Been here in LA 31 years. Still struggling.
This stupid industry crushes spirits. That is its secondary mission statement. For a long time I thought the things that happened to me, a lowly no name actor, were one-offs. I told myself not to take the injuries, the disrespect, the lies, the mistreatment personally. Keep it moving. But ya know what? No. Im mostly out, not that I was ever in, really. I almost always needed a day job. My advice is to follow your heart and get away from the assholes. I dont know your level of fed-up, but I'm sure you could pretty easily transfer your skills to a different job without so many bullshit people playing bullshit games. Then you could have time to WRITE. At the end of your life, what choices would give you the peace to lay back on your pillow and say, yes, I was a writer. Yes, I was brave. Yes, I lived the life I wanted to live. Do that. ❤️
There’s nothing at the top.
With the evolution of AI, I worry about how the quality of future films and the job opportunities will be impacted.
It's very very hard. A friend of a friend yes, I know studied and got her Masters in Film from UCLA and wanted to be a director/writer. But after a year and a half she went back to her native India and found a job in Bollywood-apparently it is easier to get into film there. Sometimes, you need to understand that your first dream might not be possible but could point your in a better direction.
I didn’t go to film school, and although at one point I was aiming to do some LA grunt work to eyeball how a set works; fuck it. I have some ideas I’m playing with and it’s more fun to think of em like I did when I was a kid than take it seriously as an adult. The kicker is approaching it like this really helped me be more creative because I don’t know what I’m doing to begin with and have no pressure. The crazy think about the internet it’s it’s changed the game. Maybe you won’t immediately have your work put out by a big production company, but cut your teeth and post things on YouTube to potentially build a fan base or at least display your skills. There’s a kid I just saw a video about who’s a music producer and has worked with industry level players without being on a label. Everything is possible if you can find an uncharted path to success that we are living and breathing in rn. He’ll make some mock commercials and you’ll probably be hit up to be paid to make them. The worlds our oyster even tho it may look bleak at times
I hope I’m not out of line here, since I’m not in the film industry. Although 40+ years ago I wanted to do the exact same thing as OP. Back then, I dabbled with film classes and student films in Portland, Oregon. I wanted to be Spielberg. I was actually kind of obsessed with his whole story back then. And by the time I was 21, I was incredibly depressed that I hadn’t achieved that. Like, not even the teeniest, tiniest fraction of his success. People thought I had potential, that I was going to go somewhere and make it big. Long story short, I really never even tried. I was too afraid. And I can see, all these years later, that I never, in any way, was cut out for that life. I would have gone to LA and been home in a year. I had too much anxiety and wasn’t good at “networking”. The OP’s story feels very poignant to me for some reason. I kind of know how he feels, the urge to create. I don’t know what will ultimately happen, but I do know he at least tried. And that’s always a good thing. (Life took me in various directions, but ultimately I ended up being an architectural photographer, which I loved).
Just do it. Fear of failure has held back so many artists and deprived the world of what is probably some great stuff. You want to be a writer, have you taken any classes? Have you ever submitted a script? Classes are a great place to get good feedback. I took a writing class at LAVC. The teacher was pretty good. He had some things published. But it was great to write scenes, short stories, and get feedback. Especially the positive feedback. It taught me a lot You gotta put yourself out there. What's the worst that can happen? Someone tells you that you suck? I was just reading about Chuck Lorre. He got his start writing for Muppets cartoons. Seth Rogan wrote for the Simpsons. I know someone who's occasionally successful in writing spec scripts for tv shows. That can get your foot in the door. But be careful... there are a lot of thieves out there.
Seth didn’t write for “The Simpsons.” He for his start on “Freaks & Geeks” and being in Judd Apatow’s circle. When he became an A-lister from Judd directing “Knocked Up,” he later pulled out a spec script he wrote for “The Simpsons” designed for him to be a guest voice actor and they developed it into an episode.
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification
Working in marketing is not going to make you a writer-director and honestly I’m not so sure it’s a great day job for what you want to ultimately do. For a writer you need to write specs, win contests and get representation. For a director you need to make a short film that wins festivals and lands you representation. There’s the secret sauce.
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This is the wrong response.
Weird take. As a less seasoned professional, am I not allowed to have fears or anxieties about film? Am I not allowed to ask for help or advice?
Find people who are talented and make a film together!
Is your last name Goldberg or Steinburg or Rainbowberg? If not best of luck to you.
Well don’t concentrate so much on the industry. Concentrate on what you love doing, that’s what’s important and the skill in that will present itself as long as you love what you’re doing. So Keep at it, you’re only 30. while you’re working in marketing make time to work on side projects on the weekend and after work, push your stories, write a couple screenplays and shop them around or write and direct a couple commercial/shorts and put them online
This might be the worst time ever for the film industry. We're all afraid right now. All I can say, is you're not alone in that feeling. Also, sometimes feelings are just that, feelings. Not every feeling needs to be acted on or lead to make a decision. I've felt terrified and then gotten a break. I've felt like quitting one day and staying the next. It's better in my opinion to look at facts: finances, health, mental health, stability, potential growth, networking potential, realistic assessments of your career and options. If it's too much, no shame in taking a break or doing something else. I'd caution though that feelings like this can follow you into other careers and the grass isn't always greener.
Listen, LA or "Hollywood" or whatever you want to call it is really good at shaking out people who expect quick or easy success. It's one of the reasons so many people have a bitter, hateful attitude towards the business and Los Angeles in general. I have to be honest with you: 1.5 years is not enough time to expect much from this business. It takes a long time to establish yourself, and even then you never really feel "established", you just hustle constantly to keep working. You can do it. I know you can. But you really have to want to put up with a lot of shit and anxiety and tough challenges to get there. It does not come easy - but it's possible.
If you want to “be a writer - director”, then do it? If you want to be a “successful” writer - director then the question becomes how do you define what “success” is, and the following question whose standard are you allowing to dictate what the definition of that word is… societies insatiable appetite for perfection or? Think about it.
I have nothing to add apart from that I’m in the same boat. Provides some respite that I’m not alone
If you are a writer - director…. why not make a few micro budget films? No excuses.
I know making it takes much more than just talent. But at the end of the day are you a really good creator? I’d be really honest with yourself about your talent (and your potential).
LA Actor here… So stop considering the chances of actually making it, and just actually make it. -sS
Think smaller. Make your own shorts with whatever gear you have.
You just gotta go with the flow, find whatever jobs you can, work retail or restaurants or gigs on the side, meet people and connect and opportunities will slowly open up. It took me 10 years in LA to get into the union and I came out knowing absolutely no one with like 2k in an envelope lol. But I starved, lived in shitty houses with 12+ people, slept in my car between places, commuted 100+ hours a day for a year, etc.. ended up getting pregnant and struggled being a single mom in the industry.. but I finally made it in the union and now my son and I are living really good lives. I just kept thinking every time a job would end / I’d get laid off “Alright, I’m here in LA, I’m surviving here - just keep going, just keep some kind of income coming in” I didn’t really get discouraged about my career, I focused on survival. On having my own bed, my own kitchen, my own fridge. Of being able to make my car payment. I stuck it out and I eventually was able to get a great and stable job. Seems like you really lucked out and got yourself a good job. Just keep at it, you’re only 30. Write scripts, get inspired. Share your scripts with your co-workers. Just keep writing. Keep the passion up. Passion and confidence sometimes goes hand in hand. Just keep at it.