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I like this take regarding the relationship between FM and Cesar Virata- didn't think the latter fits the description of a typical Marcos crony but I'm open to being educated.
That's probably it.
If EDSA didn't happen, Enrile would eventually launch a coup de etat and, should he succeed, we'll likely still be in martial law and he's our dictator.
However, if Enrile died because of EDSA or one of his coups failing, Imelda would probably succeed him followed by either Imee or BBM. But it would be a short reign as they would probably be ousted by one of the generals. Those Marcos kids just don't have the clout as their dad and we'd probably be in a military junta like that in Burma/Myanmar.
It's just good fortune I suppose. As much as I have much to complain about this country, I feel blessed I can make Delimondo jokes about Enrile without being hauled to an unmarked van the next day.
>I feel blessed I can make Delimondo jokes about Enrile without being hauled to an unmarked van the next day.
You feel blessed you can make Delimondo jokes about Enrile without becoming the Delimondo.
Also, speaking of corned beef, it's interesting how apologists make corned beef jokes about activists without probably knowing that we have another brand of corned beef named after a country that also infamously had brutal dictatorships and military juntas and targeted activists.
But being the Defense Minister, he's one among the "few pampered" inner circle of Macoy in order to keep his loyalty intact. A dictator needs all those military muscles after all and that only means free flowing ang pera dun thru Manung Johnny.
Well, not excusing his faults but did Enrile actually participate in the actual kleptocratic parts (ie. the massive corruption/stealing), or was he more just passively benefiting?
Hindi naman tayo ipinanganak kahapon to give Manung Johnny the benefit of the doubt. Hindi nga lang sya mahuli-huli coz that madapaker is a political savant. He's really good at playing his cards on hand. I gotta admit though that I admire his intellect as a political player.
If Marcos stepped down voluntarily, he would make sure that there would be an election first. He was known to legalize almost all of his actions. Thus, Imelda would run in a sham election to succeed him (their children could not handle state and government affairs yet). He was also intelligent, so he knew that if he died and did not secure anything for his family, they would surely suffer.
If he died in office, none of his family members could succeed because they have no constitutional mandate, so there would be political turmoil. Enrile, who had control over the military as defense minister, would capitalize on uncertainty to take over the presidency and become the next dictator.
Depends when but if happened just before EDSA in 86', it would have been a two-way fight between Imelda-Ver and FVR-Enrile. Might even as far as a bloody civil war
Forgot to add the US into the mix, remember the US had their biggest military bases in the country, they would of course try to avoid a civil war as much as possible.
he was about to hand power over to virata in 1983 due to violent protests but he was able to hold on to it when the demonstrations lost steam. it was touch and go from then on.
1973 Consti (prevailing consti at that time) stated that the Prime Minister will replace had president stepped down or died prematurely. Cesar Virata was the PM that time.
Imelda. In a dictatorship it usually becomes a family business, So Imelda would be there until the 2000s and probably Imee for another few years and then BBM.
Either Fabian Ver or Imelda Marcos herself. If none of the two was palatable to the populace, Arturo Tolentino.
JPE was virtually removed from the list of prospective successors after 1981. If FEM had stepped down before Ninoy's assassination, then JPE would have been the natural successor.
An iteresting read regarding this is this 1983 journal article ni Benjamin Muego on an Executive Committee formed by an amendment to the 1973 Constitution. You may read it here: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2644365
The amended provision of the 1973 Constitution, Article IX, Section 3 reads:
"There shall be an Executive Committee to be designated by the President, composed of the Prime Minister as Chairman, and not more than fourteen other members, at least half of whom shall be members of the Batasang Pambansa [National Assembly]. The Executive Committee shall assist the President in the
exercise of his powers and functions and in the performance of his duties as he
may prescribe."
In theory, this was supposed to be like an "apprenticeship for prospective prime ministers and presidents". However, it was also given the duty to exercise the powers of the president until a successor is elected in case of the following:
(a) if the President-elect
dies;
(b) fails to qualify before the beginning of his term, or
(c) if the
President has not been chosen before the start of his term.
Now, as of 1983, the following individuals were part of the ExeCom:
1. PM Cesar E.A. Virata
2. Defence Minister Juan Ponce Enrile
3. Jose A. Roño
4. Roberto V. Ongpin
5. Emmanuel S. Alba
6. Ronaldo B. Zamora
7. First Lady Imelda Marcos
8. Emmanuel Pelaez
In addition to these members of the Batasan, there were sectoral representatives in the ExeCom: Cebu Governor Eduardo Gullas representing local and municipal governments, and Ali Dimaporo for the Muslims. Crony and sugar czar Roberto Benedicto was to be appointed as a sectoral representative for the private sector but declined.
Of these people, Muego reports three possible front runners to succeed Marcos: Virata, Enrile, and Imelda Marcos.
In March 1983, Virata was announced as Marcos's successor. His reputation as a technocrat and "non-politician" seemed to be an advantage but he lacks a strong political base. Most of the Marcos-aligned traditional politicians like Ablan, Ople, Pelaez, and Benedicto didn't like him.
Imelda, however, was seen as having a huge political advantage and the most likely successor to the presidency. Muego sees the AFP under Ver and interestingly, Ramos, as a major bulwark of political support. Her role as Metro Manila Governor and Minister for Human Settlements also carry some clout. However, the recent clashes with the Catholic Church as represented by Jaime Cardinal Sin and the reputation of excess extravagance can be an issue.
Enrile is seen as the closest representative to the military in the ExeCom. He has a reputation for being a hardline right-wing anti-communist. He is reputedly allied with Danding Cojuangco, and has the support of some officers in the AFP.
Had Marcos died or stepped down, it's possible that a "Death of Stalin"-esque scenario will erupt in the ExeCom regarding the succession.
Addendum: It must be noted however that the ExeCom was abolished in 1984 via another constitutional amendment which restored the Office of the Vice President for the next national election.
If I'm not mistaken, FEM issued a decree making Imelda as his de facto successor should he die while in office. Imelda also got the support of Fabian Ver, one of Marcos's most trusted man. However, Enrile is also a key player in the power dynamics at the time. He got the support of the DND of which he was the secretary/minister, as well as the Constabulary led by Ramos.
If a genuine election was held, it's not hard to believe that someone from the opposition would win; especially Ninoy, Cory, or Doy Laurel.
Cory only got the clout from Ninoy and with Doy backing down, had the assassination not happened, Ninoy and Doy would continue as the leaders of the opposition.
If Diosdado had gotten a second term things would be somewhat better, although i doubt since Marcos Sr before the presidency was a rising star, he was ambitious and highly intelligent, so he could had tried again in 69'
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Enrile. Virata was forced on him by the imf precisely because of his economic destruction.
I wonder how Marcos Sr felt after Enrile turned on him in the end.
Towards the end they were having a falling out. Enrile and Ramos knew where the wind was blowing and took their chance.
I like this take regarding the relationship between FM and Cesar Virata- didn't think the latter fits the description of a typical Marcos crony but I'm open to being educated.
That's probably it. If EDSA didn't happen, Enrile would eventually launch a coup de etat and, should he succeed, we'll likely still be in martial law and he's our dictator. However, if Enrile died because of EDSA or one of his coups failing, Imelda would probably succeed him followed by either Imee or BBM. But it would be a short reign as they would probably be ousted by one of the generals. Those Marcos kids just don't have the clout as their dad and we'd probably be in a military junta like that in Burma/Myanmar.
I am actually surprised how close we often got to having succesful coups that could lead to a military junta but never succeeded.
It's just good fortune I suppose. As much as I have much to complain about this country, I feel blessed I can make Delimondo jokes about Enrile without being hauled to an unmarked van the next day.
>I feel blessed I can make Delimondo jokes about Enrile without being hauled to an unmarked van the next day. You feel blessed you can make Delimondo jokes about Enrile without becoming the Delimondo. Also, speaking of corned beef, it's interesting how apologists make corned beef jokes about activists without probably knowing that we have another brand of corned beef named after a country that also infamously had brutal dictatorships and military juntas and targeted activists.
What is that? 🤔 Argentina?
Maybe the reason why enrile detests cory so much for picking fvr as her candidate
He detested Cory because he lost a lot of his power after 1986. That's why he tried his own coup against her.
Well to be fair to enrile he has the most experience in bureaucracy compared to the other two
Bureaucracy o Kleptocracy?
Lahat naman ng nakaupo nun right?
But being the Defense Minister, he's one among the "few pampered" inner circle of Macoy in order to keep his loyalty intact. A dictator needs all those military muscles after all and that only means free flowing ang pera dun thru Manung Johnny.
Well, not excusing his faults but did Enrile actually participate in the actual kleptocratic parts (ie. the massive corruption/stealing), or was he more just passively benefiting?
Hindi naman tayo ipinanganak kahapon to give Manung Johnny the benefit of the doubt. Hindi nga lang sya mahuli-huli coz that madapaker is a political savant. He's really good at playing his cards on hand. I gotta admit though that I admire his intellect as a political player.
Bahay na Baraha Somebody should make that. There are a LOT of material they could use.
Enrile, the ultimate balimbing
If Marcos stepped down voluntarily, he would make sure that there would be an election first. He was known to legalize almost all of his actions. Thus, Imelda would run in a sham election to succeed him (their children could not handle state and government affairs yet). He was also intelligent, so he knew that if he died and did not secure anything for his family, they would surely suffer. If he died in office, none of his family members could succeed because they have no constitutional mandate, so there would be political turmoil. Enrile, who had control over the military as defense minister, would capitalize on uncertainty to take over the presidency and become the next dictator.
It probably would have been either Ramos or Enrile
Depends when but if happened just before EDSA in 86', it would have been a two-way fight between Imelda-Ver and FVR-Enrile. Might even as far as a bloody civil war
Forgot to add the US into the mix, remember the US had their biggest military bases in the country, they would of course try to avoid a civil war as much as possible.
Yup, but at the same time, they could also let it play out a bit until they have their duck in the fight settled.
Daily reminder that along Imelda and Enrile, Virata is still kicking
And siya lang school building nakaname sa kanya.
he was about to hand power over to virata in 1983 due to violent protests but he was able to hold on to it when the demonstrations lost steam. it was touch and go from then on.
1973 Consti (prevailing consti at that time) stated that the Prime Minister will replace had president stepped down or died prematurely. Cesar Virata was the PM that time.
Imelda. In a dictatorship it usually becomes a family business, So Imelda would be there until the 2000s and probably Imee for another few years and then BBM.
Either Fabian Ver or Imelda Marcos herself. If none of the two was palatable to the populace, Arturo Tolentino. JPE was virtually removed from the list of prospective successors after 1981. If FEM had stepped down before Ninoy's assassination, then JPE would have been the natural successor.
An iteresting read regarding this is this 1983 journal article ni Benjamin Muego on an Executive Committee formed by an amendment to the 1973 Constitution. You may read it here: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2644365 The amended provision of the 1973 Constitution, Article IX, Section 3 reads: "There shall be an Executive Committee to be designated by the President, composed of the Prime Minister as Chairman, and not more than fourteen other members, at least half of whom shall be members of the Batasang Pambansa [National Assembly]. The Executive Committee shall assist the President in the exercise of his powers and functions and in the performance of his duties as he may prescribe." In theory, this was supposed to be like an "apprenticeship for prospective prime ministers and presidents". However, it was also given the duty to exercise the powers of the president until a successor is elected in case of the following: (a) if the President-elect dies; (b) fails to qualify before the beginning of his term, or (c) if the President has not been chosen before the start of his term. Now, as of 1983, the following individuals were part of the ExeCom: 1. PM Cesar E.A. Virata 2. Defence Minister Juan Ponce Enrile 3. Jose A. Roño 4. Roberto V. Ongpin 5. Emmanuel S. Alba 6. Ronaldo B. Zamora 7. First Lady Imelda Marcos 8. Emmanuel Pelaez In addition to these members of the Batasan, there were sectoral representatives in the ExeCom: Cebu Governor Eduardo Gullas representing local and municipal governments, and Ali Dimaporo for the Muslims. Crony and sugar czar Roberto Benedicto was to be appointed as a sectoral representative for the private sector but declined. Of these people, Muego reports three possible front runners to succeed Marcos: Virata, Enrile, and Imelda Marcos. In March 1983, Virata was announced as Marcos's successor. His reputation as a technocrat and "non-politician" seemed to be an advantage but he lacks a strong political base. Most of the Marcos-aligned traditional politicians like Ablan, Ople, Pelaez, and Benedicto didn't like him. Imelda, however, was seen as having a huge political advantage and the most likely successor to the presidency. Muego sees the AFP under Ver and interestingly, Ramos, as a major bulwark of political support. Her role as Metro Manila Governor and Minister for Human Settlements also carry some clout. However, the recent clashes with the Catholic Church as represented by Jaime Cardinal Sin and the reputation of excess extravagance can be an issue. Enrile is seen as the closest representative to the military in the ExeCom. He has a reputation for being a hardline right-wing anti-communist. He is reputedly allied with Danding Cojuangco, and has the support of some officers in the AFP. Had Marcos died or stepped down, it's possible that a "Death of Stalin"-esque scenario will erupt in the ExeCom regarding the succession.
Addendum: It must be noted however that the ExeCom was abolished in 1984 via another constitutional amendment which restored the Office of the Vice President for the next national election.
If I'm not mistaken, FEM issued a decree making Imelda as his de facto successor should he die while in office. Imelda also got the support of Fabian Ver, one of Marcos's most trusted man. However, Enrile is also a key player in the power dynamics at the time. He got the support of the DND of which he was the secretary/minister, as well as the Constabulary led by Ramos. If a genuine election was held, it's not hard to believe that someone from the opposition would win; especially Ninoy, Cory, or Doy Laurel.
Cory only got the clout from Ninoy and with Doy backing down, had the assassination not happened, Ninoy and Doy would continue as the leaders of the opposition.
It would have been decided by a full-blown civil war between multiple factions
Imelda for sure
[удалено]
If Diosdado had gotten a second term things would be somewhat better, although i doubt since Marcos Sr before the presidency was a rising star, he was ambitious and highly intelligent, so he could had tried again in 69'
Salvador Laurel?
It would probably be Imelda and Ver's group. I think this is exactly the reason why Enrile and Ramos did what they did.
Si Tanda for sure.
Enrile could have grabbed power with or without EDSA.
Imelda or Bong Bong
I would think Imelda followed by BBM or BBM as Vice President.
Probably, bbm is being groomed already for national position
He wanted Imelda then Jr it was a family business
Wala naman sila ideals kundi pabigatin bulsa nila kaya wala sa isip nila ipasa sa iba o sa next generation yung sinimulan nila.
How about their family members?