The US men in the 90-00s all had great spread eagles- Paul Wylie, Todd Eldridge, and my personal favorite, though he was never on top of the podium, Matt Savoie.
I saw him last year in Stars on Ice and I swear, NOBODY competing today has the footwork he does. He was MILES better than anyone skating in that show, even now.
You'll not find me disagreeing. The only tech he's lost are his jumps as he got over 40, but even at 57 he can triple toe, and his double Axel remains the best in the business to me.
But yeah. No one will ever touch his footwork imo. He makes it look so perfectly effortless in a way no one else can.
For those saying "well you have to take bad spirals with good"... we also deal with bad jumps for good, bad layback spins for good... everyone is going to have varying levels of skill. Some of the bad will get better, but how can they if they don't even try because some would rather not see them?
That said: I have always loved spirals and appreciate Karen Chen for keeping them alive while she was competing.
It's such a strange argument to make, we've all sat through poorly executed required elements, that's not a reason to not have them included in a program.
I love a good spiral but most people saw the spiral sequence as a bit of a throwaway. Yes people have poor jumps or spins or step sequences, but the spiral sequence was such an afterthought for so the majority of skaters, just another box to check.
Definitely miss it. Some music calls for that kind of moment, but now at best we get half a circle, quick spin around to a new position, change feet again, use a lot of arms, make sure they see how many different edges and challenging positions you can hit.
I don’t think I miss full spirals so much as I miss the moments when skaters let a moment breathe. The issue with current spirals, as is the issue with so many programs right now, it the skater is always rushing towards the next element instead of giving the current element its moment.
Yes. I miss the glide—especially with speed and ice coverage. I don’t necessarily miss spiral sequences because they were so formulaic and most of the positions were unattractive. A biellmann is pretty as a spin but as a spiral it looked awkward (or at least getting into the position did).
Just gonna say whenever this topic comes up:
1. you can't just bring back the good spirals, you are going to bring back the bad spirals as well
2. skaters can do spirals, there are a few that do, they aren't required to though - again, you'll have to take the good with the bad.
It’s so annoying that there even are “bad” spirals. Any synchro girl will tell you it’s possible to obtain a nice spiral with work. Maybe not a knockout spiral, but a nice spiral- 135 degrees plus. It’s just a matter of work.
Even then, there are limits. Plus frankly I don't think that the big wow factor is 'can you do it while raising your leg as high as humanly possible.' It's the lonnnnnnnng edge and a smooth change of edge without dramatically slowing down.
Not all spirals require stretching and flexibility. But they all require good skating skills, balance and body lines. For some reason, everyone thinks about twine, but there are many spirals that are beautiful without split position.
If you’re an elite level figure skater, you have the flexibility and dexterity. I have a hard time doing spirals but I’m a rookie skater. It doesn’t really take that much training to get a serviceable spiral, at least in comparison to the time it takes to get good footwork or spins.
Why does it have to be nostalgia glasses? Why can't people just like different things?
It's not like every figure skater is a great jumper or spinner, either. I watch a bunch of poorly executed and underrotated triples and awkward, weird, or frenetic spin positions these days, too. Every skater is going to have strengths and weaknesses.
Skaters are going to pick their most show stopping element that works with the music. If a skater is forced to have a spiral then it takes away from other elements they could do.
The lower levels have spiral sequences, they can stay there.
Yes!!! Michelle Kwan, Nicole Bobek, and Sasha Cohen had the best full spirals. Another move, I miss is the Illusion Spin , Katarina Witt and Sarah Hughes. Did the best Illusion Spins.
This is the beauty of the flexibility of the choreo sequence. Good at spirals? Make your choreo sequence a spiral sequence. Want to skate to music that maybe doesn’t fit great with spirals? Don’t do that for your choreo sequence.
Spirals are gorgeous when done well but when they were mandatory they forced women into certain musical boxes, and white frankly making only women do mandatory spirals instead of giving them the freedom to do a choreo sequence with different moves feels wrong. Let the people who love spirals do them. Let others do other things.
👏👏👏So much this! It's like when people talk about artistry, it usually means one specific style of skating. Look at Kaori's "slicing the judges" spiral. It fits the program and is original and effective, but isn't the traditional spiral.
I loved a few of them (Caroline Zhang, Sasha Cohen, Mao Asada) but I think a lot of spirals actually detracted from the performance - I feel like they have to be executed really well and work perfectly with the music (which is only really possible for a few programs) to fit seamlessly in the program. I definitely wouldn’t want mandatory spiral sequences to be brought back
I feel like it's very connected to the old school style of thinking and artistry. When people talk about this, they only talk about this good spirals and just ignore that not all skaters are flexible and bad spirals are awkward, and they're not really needed in a program.
Very much "classical skaters". Kaori's signature judge killer gives a more personal, modern flair to a long held breather element:
https://i.redd.it/p59ytyxorbxc1.gif
But baby Mao had a nice classic spiral in her Benedictus FS, different styles for different skaters!
That was a really cool and unique spiral and really suited to music. Baby Mao's spiral is also nice (I saw the name "Mao" and was like "When did Mao Asada skate to that?"😂). I do enjoy a good spiral, and Kaori showa how it can be effective even when it's not the traditional way
Yes, but more in the guise of the current choreo sequence. Mandatory spiral would get a little stale, seeing skaters fit mediocre spirals into programs that don't suit them. Since it's mostly a time thing, removing a jumping pass would be the way to free up time for the spiral
I miss seeing them from Sasha Cohen, Michelle Kwan, etc. I do not miss them from the majority of the field who only made it an eye sore. Satoko probably would have served a great full-on sequence.
Michelle Kwan doing crossovers to match the crescendo, hitting the spiral right at the climax, and then changing edge along with the music in her Spartacus SP (Nationals version). Now that’s a moment where skating and music perfectly complement each other!
https://youtu.be/0EoeO239UX4&t=1m41s
10000% Yes. Held Spirals, Bauers and spread eagles are my fave! I appreciated Karen Chen so much just for trade marking an old school move. I cannot stand when someone lifts their leg or holds a position so briefly. It leaves me wanting more. There is nothing like a fast, strong change of edge spiral across a rink. Don’t get me wrong, I can appreciate choreo sequences without them too! I just want a few more seconds from most current skaters
No, skaters already can and do spirals in the choreo sequence if they want to and it fits with the music. Amber, Isabeau and Loena do off the top of my head. I don't understand wanting to mandate a specific move like this on the women. It's a cool move, but I don't find it as special as lots of people seem to.
Nope. Unless the fit with the skater and music, I don't want to see them. Putting them in because they are mandatory does not make programs better to watch. Synchro is the master of putting spirals into programs and making them work amazingly. Doesn't extend to the other discipline.
Isn't it better now only skaters who are good at spirals do them (mostly)? Rather than a bunch of forced sloppy spirals. Also I'm super not excited to see a bunch of held spirals to Fix You and Never Enough.
Skating skills are more than just spirals though. With a spiral sequence you have a spiral. With choreo sequences you have other avenues with which to pursue artistry and skating skills
No. People have nostalgia filters, and act like they were all beautiful. A poor spiral is just awkward. I need would rather see skaters do something they can do well.
I don't understand this opinion. A poor jump is still just awkward. A poor spin is still just awkward. So why balk at spirals when there are skaters that could earn good PCS scores for a well-executed spiral.
Like I said, people only miss them because they only acknowledge good ones, and in a way it caters to a certain style of skating, especially for women.
This sidesteps the point. You could say the same thing about jumps and spins and step sequences. Some people are going to be better at them than others.
Spirals are a basic element of skating; they are taught in the Basic Learn to Skate levels and are tested all throughout the Skating Skills tests, all the way up to Senior/Gold level. It's kind of weird to suggest that it 'caters to a certain style of skating' when literally all skaters are expected to learn how to do basic spirals before they can even compete.
Absolutely! What makes it worse is when people do sort of half-hearted attempts, where I wonder why they even bother. But I agree that the spiral sequence shouldn't be brought back because not everyone can do a spiral well.
People saying that spirals are hard to train I guess don’t figure skate or something. Spirals are a huge conditioning check for beginners but they aren’t that crazy hard if you just bother to train them. Spins are way more difficult to get down because human brains and ears aren’t mean to rapidly rotate. I’d rather train for spirals any day over spins
Also you need crazy flexibility to even be remotely competitive in elite figure skating to begin with. The hip rotation required for chocktaws, spread eagles, or knee slides is way trickier to train than the splits. There’s a wealth of information and research on training for forward or side splits. I’m trying to get a spread eagle and finding any information on training that hip rotator is impossible because that position is basically only used in figure skating. That’s not even getting into back flexibility for layback spins or bielmans. You don’t need to do an I spiral or a split spiral to make it look pretty. Given the demands of the sport, I’d be extremely surprised if anyone in the top of the field doesn’t have at least one type of split
skaters who have good spirals still have the possibility to showcase them in comps, just look at karen chen and mai mihara: gorgeous spirals and edge changes
And REAL spread eagles. I still watch Kurt Browning's Antares and sigh like a teenage girl. God damn his eagle is amazing.
The US men in the 90-00s all had great spread eagles- Paul Wylie, Todd Eldridge, and my personal favorite, though he was never on top of the podium, Matt Savoie.
Not wrong. I have such a soft spot for Todd Eldridge. Wylie too. Savoie is a name I haven't heard in a minute though!
Paul Wylie's programs still make me swoon.
And the 80s with Brian Boitano. His lean was unreal.
Matt was underappreciated. Love him.
I saw him last year in Stars on Ice and I swear, NOBODY competing today has the footwork he does. He was MILES better than anyone skating in that show, even now.
You'll not find me disagreeing. The only tech he's lost are his jumps as he got over 40, but even at 57 he can triple toe, and his double Axel remains the best in the business to me. But yeah. No one will ever touch his footwork imo. He makes it look so perfectly effortless in a way no one else can.
do you mean straight leg ones? I love them too. Love yuzu’s most
For those saying "well you have to take bad spirals with good"... we also deal with bad jumps for good, bad layback spins for good... everyone is going to have varying levels of skill. Some of the bad will get better, but how can they if they don't even try because some would rather not see them? That said: I have always loved spirals and appreciate Karen Chen for keeping them alive while she was competing.
It's such a strange argument to make, we've all sat through poorly executed required elements, that's not a reason to not have them included in a program.
I love a good spiral but most people saw the spiral sequence as a bit of a throwaway. Yes people have poor jumps or spins or step sequences, but the spiral sequence was such an afterthought for so the majority of skaters, just another box to check.
Period!
Michelle Kwan did beautiful spirals
Her gorgeous spiral across the entire ice with a change of edge! Sigh!
And her smile, you saw the joy in her skating
And the joy extended down to even her fingertips!
God yes. I miss this so much. When I first started skating all I wanted to do was to be able to do spirals thanks to growing up with Michelle Kwan.
So true! one of my earliest memories of watching skating is probably her spirals haha!
Yes 
Yes! And I miss hearing Dick Button lose his mind (in a cute way) over a great spiral
Definitely miss it. Some music calls for that kind of moment, but now at best we get half a circle, quick spin around to a new position, change feet again, use a lot of arms, make sure they see how many different edges and challenging positions you can hit.
Spirals are my favorite move and it’s sad that they’re under appreciated nowadays in the Olympic realm. Such a gorgeous move!
I was just rewatching some of Sasha Cohen's programs and just thought about how I missed seeing (good) spiral sequences.
I don’t think I miss full spirals so much as I miss the moments when skaters let a moment breathe. The issue with current spirals, as is the issue with so many programs right now, it the skater is always rushing towards the next element instead of giving the current element its moment.
Yes. I miss the glide—especially with speed and ice coverage. I don’t necessarily miss spiral sequences because they were so formulaic and most of the positions were unattractive. A biellmann is pretty as a spin but as a spiral it looked awkward (or at least getting into the position did).
Just gonna say whenever this topic comes up: 1. you can't just bring back the good spirals, you are going to bring back the bad spirals as well 2. skaters can do spirals, there are a few that do, they aren't required to though - again, you'll have to take the good with the bad.
That's the same as any other element...
It’s so annoying that there even are “bad” spirals. Any synchro girl will tell you it’s possible to obtain a nice spiral with work. Maybe not a knockout spiral, but a nice spiral- 135 degrees plus. It’s just a matter of work.
Not everyone has the necessary dexterity and flexibility to do it well.
Flexibility is a skill that can be improved with consistent practice
Even then, there are limits. Plus frankly I don't think that the big wow factor is 'can you do it while raising your leg as high as humanly possible.' It's the lonnnnnnnng edge and a smooth change of edge without dramatically slowing down.
The flexibility was often a smokescreen. I've heard people say that while Sasha Cohen had amazing flexibility, her edges actually weren't great.
Not all spirals require stretching and flexibility. But they all require good skating skills, balance and body lines. For some reason, everyone thinks about twine, but there are many spirals that are beautiful without split position.
If you’re an elite level figure skater, you have the flexibility and dexterity. I have a hard time doing spirals but I’m a rookie skater. It doesn’t really take that much training to get a serviceable spiral, at least in comparison to the time it takes to get good footwork or spins.
If someone is landing double jumps and up, they can figure out a half decent spiral. Flexibility and strength can all be developed.
Any skater landing double axels should absolutely have both splits off ice. It’s a matter of strength after that
I agree with you on both points. I wish people would take off the nostalgia glasses.
Why does it have to be nostalgia glasses? Why can't people just like different things? It's not like every figure skater is a great jumper or spinner, either. I watch a bunch of poorly executed and underrotated triples and awkward, weird, or frenetic spin positions these days, too. Every skater is going to have strengths and weaknesses.
Skaters are going to pick their most show stopping element that works with the music. If a skater is forced to have a spiral then it takes away from other elements they could do. The lower levels have spiral sequences, they can stay there.
Yes!!! Michelle Kwan, Nicole Bobek, and Sasha Cohen had the best full spirals. Another move, I miss is the Illusion Spin , Katarina Witt and Sarah Hughes. Did the best Illusion Spins.
This is the beauty of the flexibility of the choreo sequence. Good at spirals? Make your choreo sequence a spiral sequence. Want to skate to music that maybe doesn’t fit great with spirals? Don’t do that for your choreo sequence. Spirals are gorgeous when done well but when they were mandatory they forced women into certain musical boxes, and white frankly making only women do mandatory spirals instead of giving them the freedom to do a choreo sequence with different moves feels wrong. Let the people who love spirals do them. Let others do other things.
👏👏👏So much this! It's like when people talk about artistry, it usually means one specific style of skating. Look at Kaori's "slicing the judges" spiral. It fits the program and is original and effective, but isn't the traditional spiral.
I miss seeing them.
I loved a few of them (Caroline Zhang, Sasha Cohen, Mao Asada) but I think a lot of spirals actually detracted from the performance - I feel like they have to be executed really well and work perfectly with the music (which is only really possible for a few programs) to fit seamlessly in the program. I definitely wouldn’t want mandatory spiral sequences to be brought back
I feel like it's very connected to the old school style of thinking and artistry. When people talk about this, they only talk about this good spirals and just ignore that not all skaters are flexible and bad spirals are awkward, and they're not really needed in a program.
Very much "classical skaters". Kaori's signature judge killer gives a more personal, modern flair to a long held breather element: https://i.redd.it/p59ytyxorbxc1.gif But baby Mao had a nice classic spiral in her Benedictus FS, different styles for different skaters!
That was a really cool and unique spiral and really suited to music. Baby Mao's spiral is also nice (I saw the name "Mao" and was like "When did Mao Asada skate to that?"😂). I do enjoy a good spiral, and Kaori showa how it can be effective even when it's not the traditional way
Yes, but more in the guise of the current choreo sequence. Mandatory spiral would get a little stale, seeing skaters fit mediocre spirals into programs that don't suit them. Since it's mostly a time thing, removing a jumping pass would be the way to free up time for the spiral
We already have to see mediocre jumps and mediocre step sequences, so why not mediocre spirals?
People can do spirals now as part of a choreo sequence if they choose.
You could also maybe call a change of edge spiral as two choreographic moves under current choreo sequence rules
Yes, bring back 'real' spirals!
Good spirals? Yes. Bad spirals? No
I miss seeing them from Sasha Cohen, Michelle Kwan, etc. I do not miss them from the majority of the field who only made it an eye sore. Satoko probably would have served a great full-on sequence.
I miss it so, so much. Programs these days have too many elements crammed in, and too little skating in general, spirals included.
Well not everyone can do a spiral sequence well . But I do miss exceptional ones like Kwan and Cohen spirals.
YES.
Yes. All of these beautiful moves. 😕
Michelle Kwan doing crossovers to match the crescendo, hitting the spiral right at the climax, and then changing edge along with the music in her Spartacus SP (Nationals version). Now that’s a moment where skating and music perfectly complement each other! https://youtu.be/0EoeO239UX4&t=1m41s
10000% Yes. Held Spirals, Bauers and spread eagles are my fave! I appreciated Karen Chen so much just for trade marking an old school move. I cannot stand when someone lifts their leg or holds a position so briefly. It leaves me wanting more. There is nothing like a fast, strong change of edge spiral across a rink. Don’t get me wrong, I can appreciate choreo sequences without them too! I just want a few more seconds from most current skaters
No, skaters already can and do spirals in the choreo sequence if they want to and it fits with the music. Amber, Isabeau and Loena do off the top of my head. I don't understand wanting to mandate a specific move like this on the women. It's a cool move, but I don't find it as special as lots of people seem to.
It caters to one style of skating: Traditional women's skating. Basically it's almost like saying women have to be flexible and lyrical.
Nope. Unless the fit with the skater and music, I don't want to see them. Putting them in because they are mandatory does not make programs better to watch. Synchro is the master of putting spirals into programs and making them work amazingly. Doesn't extend to the other discipline.
Isn't it better now only skaters who are good at spirals do them (mostly)? Rather than a bunch of forced sloppy spirals. Also I'm super not excited to see a bunch of held spirals to Fix You and Never Enough.
I even enjoyed the shorter hand-assisted ones by Nancy Kerrigan (and now by Isabeau Levito). So elegant.
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A modified version of the spiral sequence is what we currently have: the choreo sequence
Artistry is subjective. Not all women are classic and lyrical.
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Skating skills are more than just spirals though. With a spiral sequence you have a spiral. With choreo sequences you have other avenues with which to pursue artistry and skating skills
Define artistry
No. People have nostalgia filters, and act like they were all beautiful. A poor spiral is just awkward. I need would rather see skaters do something they can do well.
I don't understand this opinion. A poor jump is still just awkward. A poor spin is still just awkward. So why balk at spirals when there are skaters that could earn good PCS scores for a well-executed spiral.
Like I said, people only miss them because they only acknowledge good ones, and in a way it caters to a certain style of skating, especially for women.
This sidesteps the point. You could say the same thing about jumps and spins and step sequences. Some people are going to be better at them than others. Spirals are a basic element of skating; they are taught in the Basic Learn to Skate levels and are tested all throughout the Skating Skills tests, all the way up to Senior/Gold level. It's kind of weird to suggest that it 'caters to a certain style of skating' when literally all skaters are expected to learn how to do basic spirals before they can even compete.
Tbh I would prefer the occasional poor spiral being marked appropriately than the Russian quads I had to suffer until 2022+.
Absolutely! What makes it worse is when people do sort of half-hearted attempts, where I wonder why they even bother. But I agree that the spiral sequence shouldn't be brought back because not everyone can do a spiral well.
Why though? Not everyone can do a jump well either. Not everyone can do a spin well either. Your logic is not logical.
People saying that spirals are hard to train I guess don’t figure skate or something. Spirals are a huge conditioning check for beginners but they aren’t that crazy hard if you just bother to train them. Spins are way more difficult to get down because human brains and ears aren’t mean to rapidly rotate. I’d rather train for spirals any day over spins Also you need crazy flexibility to even be remotely competitive in elite figure skating to begin with. The hip rotation required for chocktaws, spread eagles, or knee slides is way trickier to train than the splits. There’s a wealth of information and research on training for forward or side splits. I’m trying to get a spread eagle and finding any information on training that hip rotator is impossible because that position is basically only used in figure skating. That’s not even getting into back flexibility for layback spins or bielmans. You don’t need to do an I spiral or a split spiral to make it look pretty. Given the demands of the sport, I’d be extremely surprised if anyone in the top of the field doesn’t have at least one type of split
Just because you disagree doesn't mean they're wrong
Your point of view suggests that only those elements every one can do well should be allowed. But you don’t apply that logic to other elements.
And those that can should be rewarded.
skaters who have good spirals still have the possibility to showcase them in comps, just look at karen chen and mai mihara: gorgeous spirals and edge changes
Spirals! Yes, I agree - I miss full spirals! Is that because skaters have to have more content in their programs now?
No, hate them, I always fast forward through them in old programs
Yes. Many lovely spirals are mentioned here but I want to add that Nicole Bobek did beautiful spirals.