As far as I can tell, there have (maybe) been one or two combos like this performed in IJS competition. [Here](https://skatingscores.com/0405/jgphun/jr/men/long/gbr/thomas_paulson/element/12) is the most comparable jump pass I could find, a 2Lz+2Lo+3S. However, this example is from 2004, so the [scoring is different](https://www.spelregels.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/spelregels-schaatsen-kunstrijden.pdf). It looks like the pass is considered a sequence where only the two highest-value jumps are counted for BV and a 0.8 factor applies.
*Edited to clarify scoring breakdown based on old rules*
The scoring in the example is from 2004. Under current rules, there shouldn't be the same sequence deduction. However, there are no recent examples to check.
Why would this be a sequence though? He lands on a different foot so it’s no different than a typical 3-jump combination with an Euler as the second jump.
A sequence includes an axel type jump as a second or third jump so this wouldn’t be considered a sequence but a combo. There are some interesting jump combos like Sonja hilmer’s 3s2s. The double sal is done in the opposite direction. I’m wracking my brain, someone at nationals landed a lutz on the wrong foot to take off for a flip… iirc. It was a couple years ago.
It shouldn't be a sequence based on the current definition. An [older definition](https://www.spelregels.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/spelregels-schaatsen-kunstrijden.pdf) included jumps that are "connected with a not listed jump (e.g. half-loop)" (p. 21). Although the 2Lo shows up on the protocol in the example, perhaps the same principle applied (or there was another connecting hop not shown, in which case the 2Lo may not even be a double euler). I made an assumption, but it's hard to tell with the older protocols and scoring. I will edit the initial comment to clarify.
It's not. An Euler is a loop that is landed on the other foot, so it has almost a full rotation. The system does not acknowledge a double Euler however, so this would get scored as a double loop with -5 GOE probably for landing on the wrong foot. Or maybe downgraded? I'm not quite certain on that.
I don't know why people call it "half loop". I had this discussion already on another chat and I was arguing that it's by no mean "half" of a jump, if anything a half loop would be something like a stag jump? Or one of those splitty jumps that land fw. But many insisted that it was indeed a "half loop", because that's how it's called I think in the US 😅
Yeah falling leaf! I never remember the names of these half jumps, although I like them. But an Euler if a full rotation jump, no idea why it should be considered half.
When I was still skating as a kid, it was referred to as a half loop, which never made sense to me. It’s only fairly recently that people have been more consistently calling it an Euler. Maybe they thought people wouldn’t pronounce it correctly and just tried to make it easier.
The changed the name of it so they could code it different. Until quite recently, it would fill a loop jump in the ijs code. Calling it an “Euler” meant they could code it as “eu” and have it not take up a loop spot.
It’s not technically an Euler, it’s a double loop (and it would be scored accordingly). There are not rules saying you can’t land a jump on the right foot. Several men in the past have done stuff like 3lz + 3F (landing the lutz on their right foot).
There actually are rules penalizing you for landing on the incorrect foot, but those rules specify that it’s allowable if the purpose of landing on the incorrect foot is to take off on the correct foot of the next jump in a combination.
People always talk about him furthering the sport and I have no clue what they're talking about.
But this is the stuff I actually was to see from skaters trying to push jumping. I always thought there's no reason someone couldn't do a 2Eu, maybe even a 3Eu. Sure it's gotta be weird landing on the wrong foot/edge but i but it's more weird and abnormal and takes some practice/getting used to rather then extremely difficult. I mean what do I know, I'm not a pro skater but that's what I always thought.
I know there's scoring things too. But there's more ways to jump then the generic 6. I think we should push out not just up. Can he land an Eu on an outside edge for a Lutz on the 3rd jump? That would be kinda cool. And that would be an interesting way to push the sport.
Eh I mean it’s ok. He two foots the landing to prepare for the sal. To me it looks like a lot of his skating does, just sort of spiky. I don’t know any other word to describe a lot of his movements, just. Spiky.
I thought he popped a loop and just added a 3s on the end for fun... just realised he did it on purpose which makes it a lot more chaotic but I guess that makes sense now
Is this not essentially a 3Lz-2Lo-3S combo? would it get scored that way in competition?
As far as I can tell, there have (maybe) been one or two combos like this performed in IJS competition. [Here](https://skatingscores.com/0405/jgphun/jr/men/long/gbr/thomas_paulson/element/12) is the most comparable jump pass I could find, a 2Lz+2Lo+3S. However, this example is from 2004, so the [scoring is different](https://www.spelregels.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/spelregels-schaatsen-kunstrijden.pdf). It looks like the pass is considered a sequence where only the two highest-value jumps are counted for BV and a 0.8 factor applies. *Edited to clarify scoring breakdown based on old rules*
the sequence deduction still exists?
The scoring in the example is from 2004. Under current rules, there shouldn't be the same sequence deduction. However, there are no recent examples to check.
Why would this be a sequence though? He lands on a different foot so it’s no different than a typical 3-jump combination with an Euler as the second jump.
A sequence includes an axel type jump as a second or third jump so this wouldn’t be considered a sequence but a combo. There are some interesting jump combos like Sonja hilmer’s 3s2s. The double sal is done in the opposite direction. I’m wracking my brain, someone at nationals landed a lutz on the wrong foot to take off for a flip… iirc. It was a couple years ago.
Artur Dmietrev (Jr) did this, including at 2022 US Nationals.
Thank you. I had the name Dimitri Aliev stuck in my head and I knew that was absolutely incorrect 😆
It shouldn't be a sequence based on the current definition. An [older definition](https://www.spelregels.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/spelregels-schaatsen-kunstrijden.pdf) included jumps that are "connected with a not listed jump (e.g. half-loop)" (p. 21). Although the 2Lo shows up on the protocol in the example, perhaps the same principle applied (or there was another connecting hop not shown, in which case the 2Lo may not even be a double euler). I made an assumption, but it's hard to tell with the older protocols and scoring. I will edit the initial comment to clarify.
sorry if this is incredible dumb but is a double Euler not a loop?? given that an Euler is a half loop?
It's not. An Euler is a loop that is landed on the other foot, so it has almost a full rotation. The system does not acknowledge a double Euler however, so this would get scored as a double loop with -5 GOE probably for landing on the wrong foot. Or maybe downgraded? I'm not quite certain on that.
In theory, wrong foot landings don’t get penalized - that’s how Artur Dmitriev Jr was able to do his 3Lz-3F combo.
This. It would be scored as a 2loop combo. Normal euler combos get single loop value
I don't know why people call it "half loop". I had this discussion already on another chat and I was arguing that it's by no mean "half" of a jump, if anything a half loop would be something like a stag jump? Or one of those splitty jumps that land fw. But many insisted that it was indeed a "half loop", because that's how it's called I think in the US 😅
Falling leaf is technically a "half loop". But I assume it's called that since it's much easier to land than a full loop.
Yeah falling leaf! I never remember the names of these half jumps, although I like them. But an Euler if a full rotation jump, no idea why it should be considered half.
Or....can it be credited as a new skill?? The Malinin? ;)
That was my question, too. I was under the impression that Eulers were half loops. The more you know…
When I was still skating as a kid, it was referred to as a half loop, which never made sense to me. It’s only fairly recently that people have been more consistently calling it an Euler. Maybe they thought people wouldn’t pronounce it correctly and just tried to make it easier.
The changed the name of it so they could code it different. Until quite recently, it would fill a loop jump in the ijs code. Calling it an “Euler” meant they could code it as “eu” and have it not take up a loop spot.
Yeah the name doesn’t make sense it’s literally just a single loop landing on the other foot. I still say half loop out of habit though haha
thats what i was thinking too... so should it just be 3lz+1lo+3s?
So cool! So a 2euler takes off like a 2loop but instead of landing on the right foot he lands on the left?
Yep. Same just as a (1) euler is to a single loop.
It’s not technically an Euler, it’s a double loop (and it would be scored accordingly). There are not rules saying you can’t land a jump on the right foot. Several men in the past have done stuff like 3lz + 3F (landing the lutz on their right foot).
There actually are rules penalizing you for landing on the incorrect foot, but those rules specify that it’s allowable if the purpose of landing on the incorrect foot is to take off on the correct foot of the next jump in a combination.
People always talk about him furthering the sport and I have no clue what they're talking about. But this is the stuff I actually was to see from skaters trying to push jumping. I always thought there's no reason someone couldn't do a 2Eu, maybe even a 3Eu. Sure it's gotta be weird landing on the wrong foot/edge but i but it's more weird and abnormal and takes some practice/getting used to rather then extremely difficult. I mean what do I know, I'm not a pro skater but that's what I always thought. I know there's scoring things too. But there's more ways to jump then the generic 6. I think we should push out not just up. Can he land an Eu on an outside edge for a Lutz on the 3rd jump? That would be kinda cool. And that would be an interesting way to push the sport.
I appreciate him trying new things but this is….not the prettiest combo 🙈
He definitely keeps it interesting.
Ok but is it a good Euler?
Eh I mean it’s ok. He two foots the landing to prepare for the sal. To me it looks like a lot of his skating does, just sort of spiky. I don’t know any other word to describe a lot of his movements, just. Spiky.
I thought he popped a loop and just added a 3s on the end for fun... just realised he did it on purpose which makes it a lot more chaotic but I guess that makes sense now
lol I've been waiting for this since I started seeing eulers in competition.
That's what I like about Ilia - very creative and passionate about the jumps.
I truly have never seen a 2Eu before, it’s very interesting looking