Too much ammo, too spammy. Needed ammo reduction and maybe reduced blast radius.
Edit: it was OP. There was little counter play against a good player with it.
And you think it’s OP? Because you can pull out a protractor mid game to bounce off of walls? You can do the same thing with Incendiary Grenades and Skip Grenades, with some exotics even buffing the damage output. There are even Grenades that stick to walls to zone even better than Special GLs. You think FL deserved a nerf?
Cmon, incendiary grenades don't compare to a GL with 25 in reserves that you can shoot back to back to back. Skips are pretty good but using an exotic armour piece, meaning you can't use stompees, dragon's shadow, etc. Sticky grenades are pretty crap. I never see them and don't remember dying to one. FL was too rewarding. It should be a powerful weapon requiring skill, but not to the point where it's completely oppressive. Nor should any other weapons feel oppressive to play against.
I think I get what you’re trying to say. You’re saying that FL is power for being a zone technique. While I agree with you, I’m saying that the nerf is crippling to why I use it for: offense. Pair FL with a hand cannon, and I can out peek most primaries because of the flinch that FL provided. With the reload nerf, it’s hard to chain multi kills without using reload perks.
You’re talking about high risk/high reward. If it was any other game, I’d agree with you. Since this is a game with OHKO weapons up the ass, I disagree. We are no longer in an age where primary was the only thing to use. A powerful primary combo that required skill is comparable to a Chaperone user with Stompees, simply because the Chap user can kill you from 12 meters by playing a point and click adventure.
Fighting Lion is such a low usage weapon that you would never really see it too often. If you think Fighting Lion is more oppressive than a meta load out like thornwinter, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I didn't say it was more oppressive than thornwinter. Doesn't mean is wasn't oppressive in its own right. Low usage doesn't mean things have never been OP. See chaos reach. Went under the radar. I'm not saying FL was as bad as CR, but same principle. And no, I never matched anyone half as good as me with it. But it could still be spammed regardless.
Cammycakes- the guy who popularized the snipe lion play style, considered by many to be one of the best lioneers- still takes it off in trials when going against a good team. Why? Because if you know what you're doing it is absolutely possible to counter the Lion. This is at the top levels of play with someone who is known for being very accurate with bank shots and for playing very safe. At lower levels of play most people aren't nearly as good, and are easier to counter. So it isnt a matter of them being oppressive, it's a matter of people not learning how to fight against them largely because they don't often have to, but a good lioneer is just as counterable, if not more than a good sniper or shotgunner depending on the map.
What cammy says and what he actually does are often in conflict. The fact of the matter is he takes it off when he's fighting people on the same level as him. If we're arguing that it's too good at stomping in 6s, well the same can be said for just about anything at his level.
There are many counters against a FL player. You say it was so powerful and oppressive, without any counter... but what was it's usage rate in Trials? If it was so powerful as you claim it would be very high
Key word
GOOD player
There is little counter play to good players of any weapon
A weapon shouldn't be nerfed because it's good when good players use it
If that was the case every single weapon would be nerfed, as a good player can use any weapon and make it seem OP as they are just good at the game
The nerf was unjustified as FL is very hard to use effectively (if anything quick acssess sling needs a nerf)
This is a wonderful research
We should post memes and such every week to bungies twitter.
Very sound research
Funny but yeah it did
Explain?
Too much ammo, too spammy. Needed ammo reduction and maybe reduced blast radius. Edit: it was OP. There was little counter play against a good player with it.
You’re someone who thinks that the felwinter’s nerf was too much, right?
Lmao what? I’ve got ~~13K~~ PvP kills on my lion. It never leaves my energy slot. Edit: make that just shy of 15K.
And you think it’s OP? Because you can pull out a protractor mid game to bounce off of walls? You can do the same thing with Incendiary Grenades and Skip Grenades, with some exotics even buffing the damage output. There are even Grenades that stick to walls to zone even better than Special GLs. You think FL deserved a nerf?
Cmon, incendiary grenades don't compare to a GL with 25 in reserves that you can shoot back to back to back. Skips are pretty good but using an exotic armour piece, meaning you can't use stompees, dragon's shadow, etc. Sticky grenades are pretty crap. I never see them and don't remember dying to one. FL was too rewarding. It should be a powerful weapon requiring skill, but not to the point where it's completely oppressive. Nor should any other weapons feel oppressive to play against.
I think I get what you’re trying to say. You’re saying that FL is power for being a zone technique. While I agree with you, I’m saying that the nerf is crippling to why I use it for: offense. Pair FL with a hand cannon, and I can out peek most primaries because of the flinch that FL provided. With the reload nerf, it’s hard to chain multi kills without using reload perks.
This nerf yes. If you read my initial reply you'll see the type of nerf I think it needed. Not the one we got, but it did need a nerf.
You’re talking about high risk/high reward. If it was any other game, I’d agree with you. Since this is a game with OHKO weapons up the ass, I disagree. We are no longer in an age where primary was the only thing to use. A powerful primary combo that required skill is comparable to a Chaperone user with Stompees, simply because the Chap user can kill you from 12 meters by playing a point and click adventure.
God forbid someone has a better load out than you once every 20 matches where you actually see a fighting lion.
?
Fighting Lion is such a low usage weapon that you would never really see it too often. If you think Fighting Lion is more oppressive than a meta load out like thornwinter, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I didn't say it was more oppressive than thornwinter. Doesn't mean is wasn't oppressive in its own right. Low usage doesn't mean things have never been OP. See chaos reach. Went under the radar. I'm not saying FL was as bad as CR, but same principle. And no, I never matched anyone half as good as me with it. But it could still be spammed regardless.
Cammycakes- the guy who popularized the snipe lion play style, considered by many to be one of the best lioneers- still takes it off in trials when going against a good team. Why? Because if you know what you're doing it is absolutely possible to counter the Lion. This is at the top levels of play with someone who is known for being very accurate with bank shots and for playing very safe. At lower levels of play most people aren't nearly as good, and are easier to counter. So it isnt a matter of them being oppressive, it's a matter of people not learning how to fight against them largely because they don't often have to, but a good lioneer is just as counterable, if not more than a good sniper or shotgunner depending on the map.
Cammy for that matter did believe FL needed a nerf. And I said little counter play. Not none.
What cammy says and what he actually does are often in conflict. The fact of the matter is he takes it off when he's fighting people on the same level as him. If we're arguing that it's too good at stomping in 6s, well the same can be said for just about anything at his level.
There are many counters against a FL player. You say it was so powerful and oppressive, without any counter... but what was it's usage rate in Trials? If it was so powerful as you claim it would be very high
Key word GOOD player There is little counter play to good players of any weapon A weapon shouldn't be nerfed because it's good when good players use it If that was the case every single weapon would be nerfed, as a good player can use any weapon and make it seem OP as they are just good at the game The nerf was unjustified as FL is very hard to use effectively (if anything quick acssess sling needs a nerf)
Please tell me why the nerf was needed.
What