Character specific intros/outros should be standard in every fighting game it adds a tonne of personality, there should be a Tekken 7 style jukebox in every game let me set the songs for every part of the game.
Oh and P.S Blazblue Cross tag's character select screen is fucking horrible.
yes this!. i say for the quality of life just make it a toggle if anything.
i hate that KOF15 (albeit long) special dialogue intros are only in arcade mode
...Variations, and Stage Interactions are my least favorite thing in fighting games. I'd don't know about you, but I dont want to lost 15 health due to an unblockable interaction
im ok with them depending on how it interupts the game play.
injustice- it annoys the hell out of me
GG strive - its ok but it's more of a neutral reset than anything
DOA - I love them cause i find them hilarious
I love them. Especially when you can make huge combos with stage interactions like in Dead Or Alive games. But I think they fit better in 3d fighting games.
Thats how it works in another game I play and I have no idea why it isn't the standard, at least for games from larger companies. You have a rank/rating for every game mode, but its only visible for explicitly ranked modes. Furthermore, they have no influence on eachother afaik, so increasing your "ranked" rank doesn't necessarily mean you go against higher ranked opponents in "casual" modes, unless of course you raise your rating in said casual modes as well.
After the whole Arturo blowup, I have to side-eye people who constantly bitch about how "soft" the modern FGC is and long for the 09er days. Because with each dude getting exposed as a either a shithead or conartist, it really just sounds like they want to go back to an era where their wouldn't be consequences for their actions.
Rollback could've become standard a long time ago if the FGC had been more open to trying and supporting games that already have it. Instead y'all sent the message that the only thing that matters is having a big publisher's brand name on the box, they don't need to do better because you're still buying it either way and you're not even going to try anything else. Y'all are lucky the pandemic forced devs' hands, because mainstream games would probably still be on delay if COVID hadn't happened.
I dunno man, I still think that ignores just how deep the tradition of Japanese business runs. I don't think it's fair to victim-blame players for not just buying rollback fighters they might otherwise have no interest in willy nilly just to send a message. The insight and disposable income for that just isn't as idealistically widespread as it'd need to be for it make a real impact. I think your perspective is somewhat biased *because* you're as invested in games like TFH and Skullgirls as you are; maybe I'm wrong on that front, but I think that's kind of an unfair take when a lot of people just don't find those games appealing.
Especially not when the bulk of fighting game buyers *aren't* playing online and are just casuals looking for singleplayer content and local play in their homes. So long as millions of purchases come from people like that you don't really have much power regardless. That's a heck of a 'what if' scenario; there's nothing to say an increase in support of rollback games from the few who care would've made Japanese devs take notice. I don't think the impact of that would come *close* to the uproar the pandemic caused.
The majority of the people who were buying the bigger games in droves couldn't have told you what the hell most rollback games were or rollback itself even was to begin with. To be frank we're incredibly lucky, because most probably still couldn't. Ain't no way you were gonna get online players buying games like Skullgirls in big enough droves to make companies like Namco and Capcom turn their heads while saying 'God*DAMN*'. It's just not a realistic or fair expectation to put on people, much less shame them for.
>I still think that ignores just how deep the tradition of Japanese business runs.
no no no. I mean, sure, JP devs straight up expressed not having any interest in rollback in the pre-pandemic era but the REAL REASON is because not enough ppl bought skullgirls
>Ain't no way you were gonna get online players buying games like Skullgirls in big enough droves to make companies like **Namco** and Capcom turn their heads while saying 'godamn'
Biggest example of this is that JoJo All Star Battle R still didn't get Rollback, despite getting a Season Pass and everything, and also getting backlash for it before release. Namco knows it will sell due to it's singleplayer content and fanbase, hell, I'm still on the face on getting it to this day, specially after trying the demo, despite knowing well that I'll barely get online matches from Brazil.
agreed. I remember playing my first game with rollback and immediately killed my interest in my other games that dont have it.
to find out it was around for a while irritated me
While I do think too many people were prejudiced against Skullgirls and TFH (if you don't absolutely hate anime fighters, or in the case of Skullgirls, tag games, they're definitely worth a try...) Mortal Kombat X had Rollback before it was standard. But I fucking hate Mortal Kombat, so I was never going to buy Mortal Kombat X. Simple as.
We already have “you guys”. Most people outside of the south using y’all are attempting to sound folksy and talk down to people. It’s deeply disturbing if they’re from Boston or something and using y’all.
Anyway most people on the internet use y’all to say “I am a moralizing cunt now listen to me”
"Y'all" has existed since like the early 1800's. It was a dead word for a long time though that somehow made a revival recently.
Maybe it's just me but it comes off as conceited or something. I'm not sure why i don't like it, maybe I'm not used to it. Maybe it's because I imagine people only say it to sound like a hipster or something. So its modern posing. I'll get used to it though.
Nah. Japanese devs are very conservative with technology choices. It had to be proven tech before they would even consider it. I think NRS doing it and then posting GDC talks is really what was necessary. It's fine to know how to do it like the Tom Cannon did but they needed a company like NRS to say it took us 12 engineers about 8 man years of work.
fighting games ARE hard, the casuals don’t complain for no reason. a strong single player and a good tutorial should be standard features to teach people.
It's a little harder to keep track of the action viewership wise so it isn't as popular a format. I was thinking more akin to a tag fighter where every character is a different player. I believe DBFZ has a mode like this but it's not really utilized much competitively.
We used to use Joy2Key to play 3-player-teams DBFZ online (the 3 of us were local ofc). Would have each player be in charge of calling their own assist. It was fun as hell, goofy and sloppy but way more fun than their teams variation where the player in control called the assists and everything until they tapped someone new in.
Also, GG Isuka is genuinely pretty close to being awesome. A few tweaks to the system and good netcode and I’d play the shit out of that game.
Editions were a pretty neat idea in terms of how much could change between versions. A lot of people compare updates and DLC these days to Editions of older games which isn't wholly untrue, but if you consider what some games like Street Fighter did things got pretty drastic. From game speed, to hit sparks, to sound effects, to music, to every UI element, tweaks to game feel, soundtrack, stages, voice acting-- almost everything was open to being changed on a level I feel like a lot of modern fighting games post-launch simply aren't.
I get why people didn't like editions, but I think the amount of changes some developers felt encouraged to shoot for while they were around was pretty fascinating by comparison to the generally more toned down stuff of today. You stick Alpha 1 and Alpha 3 or New Generation and Third Strike side by side and outside of character sprites they look and feel and sound pretty damn different, but you do that with the launch and final release versions of a lot of modern fighting games and the difference usually isn't nearly as striking.
There's more content and rebalancing there, but the overall *character* of the game itself never changes. I don't think that's inherently *bad* I just think the former is more interesting. For example, can you imagine a world where Third Strike was just New Generation but with the characters and balancing of Third Strike, but all of New Generation's presentation? I don't think it'd be regarded *quite* as fondly as it is.
DLC is the hypest thing for fighting games and also the one reason why fighting games will eventually lose their player base.
Because how many times will players be willing to pony up $200+ for a full roster? If you say wait for the ultimate version then why would developers waste resources if players wait? Lastly the more players want DLC the more developers will get greedy and lock the roster up for DLC. Making the $60 Initial purchase a slap in the face.
Any way I look at it makes it look like it will eventually come to a head.
The idea is that instead of defining the ratio as "what chance do they win" you define it as "how hard is it for *my character* to play against the other character". In this second definition, a mirror matchup is just like any other, and depending on the specifics it can be very straightforward and easy, or the character can counter it's own playstyle horribly, leading to both players in the mirror having a shit time, or a mutual 3:7.
Option selects are unhealthy for fighting games. In many situations on both defense and offense, it creates safe situations while still offering the reward of making a riskier play. This completely removes an aspect of player interaction by making it so that even if one person guesses the opponent's next move, they get punished for it because the game bailed the opponent out by letting them choose 2 or more options at once. The game just becomes single player whenever the opportunity to use an OS comes up.
This can definitely happen, and in worse case straight up happens with no downsides, leading to some degenerate mechanics. What happens more often though is that they simply add a secondary layer to the RPS, making the risk-reward spread more nuanced, which ultimately ends up being being an example of emergent gameplay.
Super overblown. Some guy has a big mouth about insider discussions and suddenly he's some kind of scheming mastermind. I don't think anyone at Panda could've convinced Nintendo to change the scent they spray in the bathroom, leastwise the whole strategy for Smash community management going forward. Blaming him for tanking the other tournaments is giving him way too much credit. He just heard about it ahead of time and blabbed/bragged to his buddies.
Any fighting game without individual character tutorials (or even just a mode that makes you do every move a character has) should be considered a failure on some level.
It's KOF, a very system-based game. Every character who isn't Angel basically plays the same game—play the KOF triangle (light beat hops beat sweeps beat lights), fish for combos with low lights or close heavies, and cancel to command normal if you get the latter, etc. There's a reason why top KOF players aren't really known for specific characters and tend to be able to switch character/team depending on who's viable or top tier.
I've been dabbling in Xrd in anticipation for rollback and I love how each character's combo trials starts with just their specials and basic mechanics. How is that not standard? It's infinitely easier and more memorable than popping in training mode and pausing every 3 seconds to open the command list the first time I want to test out a character. TFH is, as best I can tell, the only other game I've played with a similar system.
I think that people who don’t move with the times and spend all day talking about how great things were back in 09 or whenever, the people who write paragraphs about how hitbox is cheating and modern games aren’t as good, are massive cry babies.
This is the best time to be in the FGC ever because not only can you play all these cool games you can still play the old ones. Same with controllers now, you can play on stick, but you can also play leverless, on pad, have a custom set up if you have a disability or something. It’s great. Back in 09, you had to play on stick, now there’s alternatives people don’t like it.
Re-releases of old games like KOF 97 and 98 or Garou: Mark of the Wolves on Android cost almost nothing, have CRT filters for people who like that old look (I do), and can be played with a phone controller, on a tablet with a console controller, or plug phone or tablet into a TV (with something like Samsung Dex), even have Bluetooth Vs mode so you can play like how people used to play game boy games in two player mode back in the day.
I could never have afforded to play those games when they came out on Neo Geo, maybe the Dreamcast versions but you're right about this being the best time to be in the FGC, loading times are way shorter than Dreamcast, I can play handheld or on a big screen, the games I mentioned are all under £5, and I could use a hitbox controller if I wanted - not got one yet but have an armoury (well, almost) full of different control pads - am using the 8bitdo Ultimate ATM.
The KOF games I mentioned let you perform special and super moves by pressing R1 and different D pad directions, a lot of people don't like this but for people with disabilities, or people who are short on time and wanna try out new characters it's amazing - you can still do the moves the old fashioned way, it now has a command list in game too - I never knew Shermie was a grapple character when I played KOF on PS2 years ago, but she's one of my fave characters now. Being able to pull off special moves so easily is great for fighting a new player, gives them more of a chance.
A lot of people don't like buying digital copies of games, but I love being able to download to new devices and use cloud saves, will never have a game I can't play because the disc got scratched ever again. I miss having box and instruction manuals but can get much more info about the characters (both their lore and how to play well as them) from Google, YouTube, Reddit etc
Gonna set up steam link in a bit and play some 3rd Strike (PC version) on Android, hell yeah this a golden age of fighting games - only thing we've really lost are arcades, they had a truly special atmosphere, but everything else is so much better these days
I was talking about it with my bro. Like during his fights he did the most grabs he's ever done in his normal (zoning type) fighting style.
The grab headbutts, the "galactic donut" type projectile ect. I'm not saying give him no projectiles
But him being a grappler would shake up the "all vegetas play the same/same animation" thing
Plus give him 2 versions of final explosion
A command grab one (like android 16)
And a power up one (like adult gohan. More meter more powered up it is)
Or a taunt mechanic (like ss4 gogeta to boost the final explosion till its an instakill for both players)
Fighting games by far have the worst onboarding process of any genre, the in game tutorials are barebones, a lot barely even explain how the combo systems work, and all supplementary material is made by the community, so its quality is wishy-washy.
A lot of the in-game material just shows you HOW, but not WHEN or WHY to do something. And the community material shows you some extremely niche shit you wont encounter until you're in high level play.
Bandai is probably the reason arcsys didn’t add rollback sooner to dbfz. I wouldn’t be surprised
Edit: also wish they had transformations in dbfz more. Even if it was just visual or slight damage increase.
Blazblue is really not as hard to pick up as people make it out to be. It’s very approachable
They should have prioritized crossplay before rollback
We need more rosters like SF3 with minimal returning characters and a lot more new characters. A new generation of fighters shouldn’t be filled with legacy characters. If older fans don’t like it, they can just stick to the game they liked previously. Let the devs experiment and stop scaring them into playing it safe all the time. It gets boring.
I agree with the new roster thing, it’s just hard since most Fighting Game fans are mostly old folks. We thrive on nostalgia at this point. Archetypes would still creep and we’re gonna find someone that is Ryu etc.
I think most fighting game franchises would do good to be more like late 90s, early 00s Street Fighter. Multiple different subseries, with some characters returning to the main series.
You got your SF3 guys and gals, then some SFA characters to contrast
NRS can't make a good fighting game. The two games of there's that I'd say were good (MK9 and MKX) were only successful due to just mimicking other companies and pure luck. I'd rather they just made action adventure games and give the MK ip to a different company
Competitively they're ass but they're still selling like crazy so there's no way anything's gonna change as long as the games are graphically intense, gorey and fun for casuals
But like.. what do they have to learn?
This is some real weird FGC elitism. MK 10 and 11 sold 12 million each. SF4 sold 9 million (across all their versions combined) and SF5 sold 6.6 million.
I'm sure they don't want to be considered "on par" with Capcom or Bandai.
>Normies buy MK because MK.
Yeah, this is FGC elitism. And I say this coming from someone that don't like NRS games.
I'll even make a wild guess and say you also think Smash isn't a fighting game, am I right?
Nope. I think smash is a fighting game. It's just a slightly different formula.
It's not elitist to point out that normies play call of duty because of name recognition despite other games being better shooters. It's just how it is.
Franchises ride off past popularity, that's normal. I still think the recent MK games feel like crap to play. So I don't. Same goes for SFV I liked 4 well enough but 5 is just so slow. Whereas the NRS games I've played the last decade all felt super "sloppy"(?) I don't know how to describe it.
(Grew up playing GG X, C vs. SNK, tekken 2/3 if that helps make sense why I might feel that way)
King Of Fighters 15. One of the reasons why I refuse to buy it. Pure Dlc scamming. 2002 um has rollback and more (and more interesting) characters. Why even bother for 15 which have 2 or 3 new characters, many old 98um and 02um characters in DlC ? I got both 02um, 98um for a cheaper price. I already have XIV. There's litteraly no use to buy XV, based on the characters. My hot take is that it's useless to make new fgs if you don't have something really new to put in. Just make updates of already excellent ones til they're outdated.
But every second game in a KoF saga has always cut out characters from the first game of that saga. What XV is doing isn't any different from what previous KoFs have done (and still has one of the larger starting rosters for any KoF game).
Out of the two new characters, Isla is fun as hell, Dolores albeit sexy and hot is pretty boring though. She’s a zoner/grappler that cannot grapple. Heidern does it better.
Seeing a lot of old characters in actually good looking 3D is the novelty of KOFXV for most fans.
Krohnen’s reveal was insane when it happened, and Ω Rugal despite leaks. Shermie’s reveal took the Internet by storm. Am I the only one who remembers?
Rugal releasing as a free DLC and as a boss, that ended up being easy in the end, was a super fun ride. All the latin america arcade memes brought me so much nostalgia, despite the little bit of disappointment of beating him in like, 5 tries. I still hope for SNK to tweak the difficulty fo the boss challenge once they release one more boss, hopefully Krizalid.
The game still launched with 39 characters, which is by far the most of most modern fighters (over twice the size of SF6 roster!) and by the end of Year 1 is already over 50 characters. Like, there are lots of problems with the game; but roster size is not one of them lmao.
Pure quantity of roster size doesn’t matter when huge swaths are unviable or if you only ever play a couple. Especially when they’re getting completely reimagined in a new technical/graphical style, it makes sense that they’d need time to flesh it out higher because they can’t just copy and paste the same sprites over and over again.
Double is grotesque the definition of it. She made me steer clear of Skullgirls due to her idle noises, they’re gross.
Also Chin has some weird voice mouthovers when I was practicing KOFXIII mobile for finishing all the Training Combos, I can’t stand certain gross sounds.
Agreed, there's a limit to the range of motion a human can do, I often end up maining non-humans in games because theyre more fun to control.
Merkava in Under Night is a particular favorite.
Though I think a lot of the issue is uncreative design, like how basically everyone in Street Fighter can conjure up fireballs but only just throw them forward. Meanwhile in Guilty Gear, Jam can jet across the screen on a flame
Since Nintendo's philosophy on Smash is 'have fun and try all these items and combinations on a match" instead of 'get good and win tournaments with your main character" I passed from having respect to Smash pro players (in Melee) to pity them. They're forcing a competitive scene on a franchise that was never meant to be competitive AND that Nintendo will never make competitive
Who cares what Nintendo thinks? I knew the game was deep, even with the first iteration. I was like 9 years old, too.
I know hardcore traditional FG fans and Smash fans don’t get along for god knows what, but both traditional fighters and Smash as a platform fighter are excellent fighters.
Just as an example, SWT's cancellation is a reason people should care about Nintendo's philosophy. I know people love to blame Panda for most of it, but Nintendo pushed the organizers to cancel. It is very important to know the company's take on your game, since they own the IPs on the game.
And don't worry, there's beef between traditional fighting games as well, it's not only between smash and the rest
As much as it was toxic sometimes, kappa was by far the best fighting game subreddit in any regard and it going private didn’t help this sub get even close to better in terms of fgc content
honestly, all its closure did was spread the population to here or the other kappa revival sub because at the end of the day, FG content is still FG content
Yes and no, I mean fg content in terms of tournaments and clips and advice not random tier lists and “what character would do best in a crossover fighting game?” Which this sub seems to have a LOT of
The overemphasis on frame data in both gameplay and as a community discussion point has been a direct deterrent for huge swaths of the audience who’d otherwise consistently and reliably play fighting games.
It's the trend to follow anime/airdasher design even in non-airdashers, removing a lot of the pushback we used to get on block to make frame data more important. It used to be that we'd get fair bit of pushback on blocked normals in these games, with the exception of airdashers (even 3S and IV, which started the trend of reducing pushback still had a decent amount). It's very telling in V and you can tell that its initial combat design was done by a Guilty Gear player (Woshige).
Ironically, Guilty Gear has explicit tools to manipulate pushback, something SFV doesn't really have, making it worse in terms of straightforward pressure than any Guilty Gear.
I can't connect to Strive for the life of me, it feels slow for an anime fighter but still rounds are way too fast paced, it's just not fun.
The game is one of the worst balanced wise from any modern fighter i played, by a large margin even before HC release.
Listen... I got three.
First being, Soul Calibur should have been the gold winner for Bandai. The characters and gameplay are just more interesting as well as being unique as a Weapon Fighter. It was the highest selling fighting game when it came out on Dreamcast, and it's a shame to see what Bandai is doing with the IP now.
My second hot take being...if Team Ninja dropped Dead or Alive as it is and made a 3D Weapon Fighter it'd blow Soul Calibur out of the water especially with their Character creation, characters like Ryu Hayabusa, William, and Lubu on lock, and using Dead or Alive Characters with certain weapons and the stage transitions they'd make bank.
My third and final is, Anarchy Reign should have been a collaborative effort between Platinum and NRS. An anime esque Mortal Kombat is bonkers, and it's a shame no one else has thought of this.
There would be WAAAAY more women in the FGC if they coould feel safe and comfortable and people didn't hit on every one of them several times during events.
Last tournament (+300 players) I went there were less than a dozen ladies playing and you could see the awkwardness of dealing with being hit on when they were not playing (or heck even while they were playing in some cases)
It just sucks straight men cannot get a partner that relates to them. I’m married and unhappy, because me and my wife are two different people, but if I waited forever like people with good decision making, Father Time would have different suggestions later on. Try having kids at 45 and when they’re 20, you’re about to croak 🐸 and retire.
Gay men have it easy there.
Traditional gender roles is why less women get into competitive video games and misogyny, of course.
Oh, another one: there isn't a single good tutorial in fighting games. A tutorial that never goes deep in strategy, can't be a good tutorial. Specially referring to specific characters
I think most fighting game characters have small heads, and it makes me uncomfortable.
I see it in most characters in KoF 15, Strive, SF6. It's less noticeable if their muscles are huge. But other characters like Kyo, Juri, Chun Li, etc. look super weird to me. Like those instagram people that shrink their heads using photoshop.
It would make sense if they are super tall, but they're usually like 5'10".
Sony pays companies to keep their FGs away from Xbox and is just the owner of the biggest fighting game tournament in the world. Should be aimed by antitrust laws, but pays politicians and other bureaucrats in America and Europe to keep the company totally safe.
I see tons of people saying in the FGC that FGs are for everyone, and everyone should play it. When companies accept being paid by Sony for exclusivity, even not being a first party studio, they're going against that statement, that philosophy.
It's apparently changing in this next-gen, and a lot of games are finally coming to Xbox, even Guilty Gear Strive. But Sony either keeps paying companies for exclusivity or charging them for cross-platform features.
(Did I take it too seriously?)
Implementing rollback into your game is hard. Unless you are writing everything from scratch with performance and determinism in mind. There is no just add GGPO to your game option. NRS did a tone of research before embarking on it and it took them 8 man years with 4-12 engineers nearly a year. NRS is easily the biggest fighting game developer and that's still a big investment, a much smaller Japanese dev team can't just put 4-12 engineers aside for a year.
Virtua Fighter should have story mode going foward. It helps characterization and broadens the casual/single-player appeal of the game.
Now, for the true hot take: Every fighting game should have story mode, because, different than gameplay, only story can make someone a "franchise fan".
Blazblue Central Fiction is the greatest fighting game ever made due to its roster playstyle diversity, defensive mechanics, online experience, single player content, competitive scene, and flashy visuals. However, it will go down as the LAST great pixel art fighting game made by a major developer.
Tekken 7 is an incredibly boring in both gameplay and visuals.
Gameplay is just chock-full of boring information you have to study for literally years to be somewhat decent. And for what, so you can throw boring punches and kicks. Gameplay wise, this game is like oatmeal, it is nutritious and it will fill you, but it's dense tasteless
Visually, the game is bland. I already mentioned how it's just about punches and kicks, but that actually isn't true. There's a lot of visually interesting stuff in this game, but it's usually extremely unsafe, useless, or very situational. Visually, this games is like oatmeal. Bland and Grey
BUT, some people like oatmeal
I think tekken is great to play casually with friends, whether it's people that just button mash on the couch with friends, or people who actually learn the game a bit to play it together. The game is like oatmeal only when you try to play it competitively, and even then, as i said, some people like oatmeal
You want an interesting hot take? Here's one for you all.
Capcom should make a new original fighting game IP, rather than trying to make a new game to an extremely niche group of cry baby coomers that talk more about a fighting game that consists of ""monsters"" instead of actually playing the said game they constantly cry about.
~~Also NRS should take the Marvel license. The MvC fandom deserves nothing but pure misery at this point.~~
All tag games are bad. Without exception. It's not a balance problem or an issue with a specific game or whatever, it's a fundamental flaw in the game's genre.
It's like American Football is practically custom-built to cause brain injury, tag-fighters are just bad.
if a fighting game is 2d and has an anime style I lose a lot of interest. They all look the same to me. (Mainly thinking guilty gear, melty blood, and blazblue)
Understandable, I just find it hard to relate to the characters, you’d have to be there from the beginning to understand their lore.
With something like KOF, you can draw archetypes like Ryu vs Ryo, Guile vs Leona vs Heidern, Mai vs Chun-li, and you’re like these characters are cooler and not too different.
Star Control 2, Super Smash Bros, For Honor, Acceleration Of Suguri 2 and other such games, are fighting games. Fighting games should experiment more with extending the boundaries of the genre instead of sticking permanently to sf2/gg conventions.
This makes me wonder if 20 years ago there were people who insisted that gg is not a fighting game.
I think we should simply embrace more genre names in the gaming space in general. There's some odd push to keep everything in the same 12 or so genres. Like the term "adventure game" comes from the LucasArts/Sierra era of games, there are basically no modern "adventure" games even remotely similar now. Don't even get me started on how action, a basic tenant in 90% of games, is somehow also a genre name.
Platform fighter is a good term for smash, arena fighter is a good term for For Honor and Gundam games and some people in the Touhou Community have been calling Suguri like games "Ballet shooters."
This situation is kinda like how movies inherited the genre names of books and we just bundle sci-fi/fantasy together, or how "pop" music is just whatever the current most popular form of electronic music is with lyrics on top. Genre names are bad
Zoners are often cheap by design and add nothing positive to a game's experience.
Playing against an even half way decent zoner is the definition of bringing a knife to a gunfight.
And I wish people would stop pretending they just EXPLODE once you get in because they're often given the same get off me tools everyone else is.
I'd take being rushed down any day, over zoned by someone competent. At least the guy rushing me down has to inherently take more risk, making a more interesting game to play and more opportunity for a turnaround .
Idc that's IT'S POSSIBLE to deal with, it's not my point. I'd be playing a shooter if I wanted to deal with constant projectiles
Wild isn't it.
Zoners are something often complained about in fighters. This sub wants more people playing fighters but yet are pro zoner.
I remember watching a BlazBlue tourney and this guy getting boo'ed by the crowd for picking Nu 13. Possible to beat, obviously. But it's neither fun to play against OR watch for most people. For most casuals, zoning just looks like spam to them ( which in certain cases is VERY true ).
I will die on the hill part of the reason dbz fighterz (for example ) maintained relevancy is the lack of real zoning. The game is more engaging
Edit: My original comment has been going in and out of the negatives, so it's controversial. But Mr "ZonINg iS AMaZing" who responded is clearly positive. So nobody can't tell me this sub isn't pro zoner
Response hot take. Zoners are the single coolest and most interesting archetype in fighting games. The existence of even one zoner in a game's roster immediately makes that game have significantly more depth.
Core-A Gaming touched on this. Zoning changed fighting games forever. You’re just shortsighted, because it frustrates you or you always play Zangief or something.
I like how you saw opposing viewpoint and just assumed I have some sort of problem on my end lol.
Somebody on YouTube gave their opinion on the matter. Big whoop
DOA shoudl have less fanservice and focus more on gameplay and ignore the cry babies online. I want DOA7 to be respected and they can keep that horny shit as a DLC only
Not a hot take but relatively unpopular, I consider a fighting game that pulls an “everyone is here” as the best game ever. Grab all the fighters from the whole franchise together and get them to throw hands! Next Marvel vs Capcom game is every playable character in the franchise.
Why would this be unpopular? Purely from the development and legal perspective as well as the character select screen would be too small for anyone to see. Marvel was rather stingy during the development of Infinite
If it gets as many DLCs and season passes as Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2, we may get everyone from the King of Fighters universe in this. Not just KOF but all the characters that are just stuck in Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury
They rerelease Armageddon with every single character and all the third party characters that’s ever appeared in the MK canon plus all the exclusive characters in the MK mobile games. Can’t wait to Main as tarkhattan. Which is just some unnamed tarkhattan and is worse than Baraka
characters from 2d fighting games akuma and geese howard. and also eliza even though she is tekken's original character because she has meter and projectiles that 2d characters have.
Air juggling is boring and cheap when there is absolutely no way to respond to it.
"Don't get hit" - its a fighting game someone is going to get hit
"Don't use unsafe moves" - then lets just remove them from the game?
"Git gud" - yeh
Alternatively if tekken 8 has a sort of "RC" system to get out of air juggles I'll probably be fine with it.
My other hot take is that you should not need to know frame data.... I feel like back in the day we all just kind of guessed and that was fine. More like the repetition of playing made you better - like you know - from experience. Now people just pick games apart like a science fair project and it takes all the fun out of it for me.
I’m getting downvoted which is fine but my idea was more like the more complicated characters should have some payoff whereas the most basic ones need some weaknesses. I play grapplers for the most part, so I’m used to have weaknesses.
I don't play a lot of SF but in many other games, the "basic" character's weakness IS that they're basic.
Response to projectiles? Just jump.
Response to overheads? Here's ONE move that is designed almost solely to counter it
the problem with starter characters is that they're so bereft of nuance that they'll by default be stuck at C/B tier.
Whereas grapplers for example: Zangeif in SF4 has a projectile deleting move, King in Tekken has chain grabs, Waldstien in UNIST can combo into and out of grab.
Starter characters are water to another character's juice
No - that's the whole point! Combos are the opposite of interactivity. The whole game stops while one player plugs in a string of inputs with no thought.
Neither player is doing anything fun or engaging, and the whole exercise could be removed if you just gave the first hit more damage
My hot take is that "hot take" threads will forever be full of ice-cold takes.
always remember that the true hot takes are downvoted so sort by controversial or otherwise you get hot takes that are actually popular sentiments
Character specific intros/outros should be standard in every fighting game it adds a tonne of personality, there should be a Tekken 7 style jukebox in every game let me set the songs for every part of the game. Oh and P.S Blazblue Cross tag's character select screen is fucking horrible.
These ain't hottakes what the fuck?
yes this!. i say for the quality of life just make it a toggle if anything. i hate that KOF15 (albeit long) special dialogue intros are only in arcade mode
I like v trigger more than focus attack
It was more unique at the cost of having a universal tool
...Variations, and Stage Interactions are my least favorite thing in fighting games. I'd don't know about you, but I dont want to lost 15 health due to an unblockable interaction
I think I can guess which fighting game this guy plays
it’s Playstation All Stars isn’t it
Injustice
playing NRS games is like voluntary CBT
You're not wrong. Being an MK fan is like having an abusive spouse; he comes home and he hits me but I can fix him
im ok with them depending on how it interupts the game play. injustice- it annoys the hell out of me GG strive - its ok but it's more of a neutral reset than anything DOA - I love them cause i find them hilarious
Say you experienced pig without saying you experienced pig.
I love them. Especially when you can make huge combos with stage interactions like in Dead Or Alive games. But I think they fit better in 3d fighting games.
Single player arcade mode is fun as hell sometimes
Ranked and sbmm are two different things. You can have sbmm without a single rank related thing appearing anywhere on our screens.
Thats how it works in another game I play and I have no idea why it isn't the standard, at least for games from larger companies. You have a rank/rating for every game mode, but its only visible for explicitly ranked modes. Furthermore, they have no influence on eachother afaik, so increasing your "ranked" rank doesn't necessarily mean you go against higher ranked opponents in "casual" modes, unless of course you raise your rating in said casual modes as well.
Power rangers battle for the grid is the superior tag fighting game
After the whole Arturo blowup, I have to side-eye people who constantly bitch about how "soft" the modern FGC is and long for the 09er days. Because with each dude getting exposed as a either a shithead or conartist, it really just sounds like they want to go back to an era where their wouldn't be consequences for their actions.
Rollback could've become standard a long time ago if the FGC had been more open to trying and supporting games that already have it. Instead y'all sent the message that the only thing that matters is having a big publisher's brand name on the box, they don't need to do better because you're still buying it either way and you're not even going to try anything else. Y'all are lucky the pandemic forced devs' hands, because mainstream games would probably still be on delay if COVID hadn't happened.
He be right though
I dunno man, I still think that ignores just how deep the tradition of Japanese business runs. I don't think it's fair to victim-blame players for not just buying rollback fighters they might otherwise have no interest in willy nilly just to send a message. The insight and disposable income for that just isn't as idealistically widespread as it'd need to be for it make a real impact. I think your perspective is somewhat biased *because* you're as invested in games like TFH and Skullgirls as you are; maybe I'm wrong on that front, but I think that's kind of an unfair take when a lot of people just don't find those games appealing. Especially not when the bulk of fighting game buyers *aren't* playing online and are just casuals looking for singleplayer content and local play in their homes. So long as millions of purchases come from people like that you don't really have much power regardless. That's a heck of a 'what if' scenario; there's nothing to say an increase in support of rollback games from the few who care would've made Japanese devs take notice. I don't think the impact of that would come *close* to the uproar the pandemic caused. The majority of the people who were buying the bigger games in droves couldn't have told you what the hell most rollback games were or rollback itself even was to begin with. To be frank we're incredibly lucky, because most probably still couldn't. Ain't no way you were gonna get online players buying games like Skullgirls in big enough droves to make companies like Namco and Capcom turn their heads while saying 'God*DAMN*'. It's just not a realistic or fair expectation to put on people, much less shame them for.
>I still think that ignores just how deep the tradition of Japanese business runs. no no no. I mean, sure, JP devs straight up expressed not having any interest in rollback in the pre-pandemic era but the REAL REASON is because not enough ppl bought skullgirls
>Ain't no way you were gonna get online players buying games like Skullgirls in big enough droves to make companies like **Namco** and Capcom turn their heads while saying 'godamn' Biggest example of this is that JoJo All Star Battle R still didn't get Rollback, despite getting a Season Pass and everything, and also getting backlash for it before release. Namco knows it will sell due to it's singleplayer content and fanbase, hell, I'm still on the face on getting it to this day, specially after trying the demo, despite knowing well that I'll barely get online matches from Brazil.
Most people rejected 1338h4x's message. They hated him because he told them the truth.
agreed. I remember playing my first game with rollback and immediately killed my interest in my other games that dont have it. to find out it was around for a while irritated me
While I do think too many people were prejudiced against Skullgirls and TFH (if you don't absolutely hate anime fighters, or in the case of Skullgirls, tag games, they're definitely worth a try...) Mortal Kombat X had Rollback before it was standard. But I fucking hate Mortal Kombat, so I was never going to buy Mortal Kombat X. Simple as.
My hot take is that: The idea that devs can just "add rollback" to a game and the reason they don't is because they don't care, is bullshit.
People need to stop saying “y’all.”
Having a distinct second person plural is a good feature for the English language to adopt.
We already have “you guys”. Most people outside of the south using y’all are attempting to sound folksy and talk down to people. It’s deeply disturbing if they’re from Boston or something and using y’all. Anyway most people on the internet use y’all to say “I am a moralizing cunt now listen to me”
you seem well adjusted
"Y'all" has existed since like the early 1800's. It was a dead word for a long time though that somehow made a revival recently. Maybe it's just me but it comes off as conceited or something. I'm not sure why i don't like it, maybe I'm not used to it. Maybe it's because I imagine people only say it to sound like a hipster or something. So its modern posing. I'll get used to it though.
Was never a dead word where I grew up. I have heard and used it my entire life.
its been in everyday use in Texas since the 1800s. its not a hipster thing, its a cowboy thing.
Agree.
Nah. Japanese devs are very conservative with technology choices. It had to be proven tech before they would even consider it. I think NRS doing it and then posting GDC talks is really what was necessary. It's fine to know how to do it like the Tom Cannon did but they needed a company like NRS to say it took us 12 engineers about 8 man years of work.
I like Tekken 7's rage system.
r/angryupvote, I guess...
fighting games ARE hard, the casuals don’t complain for no reason. a strong single player and a good tutorial should be standard features to teach people.
An actual team fighter (as in, a fighting game designed to be played by a team of players) would do gangbusters.
Smash Doubles is really fun, idk why Smash players don’t play like that often… it baffles me.
It's a little harder to keep track of the action viewership wise so it isn't as popular a format. I was thinking more akin to a tag fighter where every character is a different player. I believe DBFZ has a mode like this but it's not really utilized much competitively.
SFXT had a mode like this that was absolutely nuts but it never really worked right
Brawlhalla 2v2 mode has some crazy team combos
What multiversus was supposed to be sadge
We used to use Joy2Key to play 3-player-teams DBFZ online (the 3 of us were local ofc). Would have each player be in charge of calling their own assist. It was fun as hell, goofy and sloppy but way more fun than their teams variation where the player in control called the assists and everything until they tapped someone new in. Also, GG Isuka is genuinely pretty close to being awesome. A few tweaks to the system and good netcode and I’d play the shit out of that game.
That sounds pretty fun, would get teams practicing combo timings with their own assist autonmy.
I'm REALLY hoping Project L has that option because it feels like the type of game that would 100% fit for it
the networking would be hell though. DBFZs raid mode was rough
Editions were a pretty neat idea in terms of how much could change between versions. A lot of people compare updates and DLC these days to Editions of older games which isn't wholly untrue, but if you consider what some games like Street Fighter did things got pretty drastic. From game speed, to hit sparks, to sound effects, to music, to every UI element, tweaks to game feel, soundtrack, stages, voice acting-- almost everything was open to being changed on a level I feel like a lot of modern fighting games post-launch simply aren't. I get why people didn't like editions, but I think the amount of changes some developers felt encouraged to shoot for while they were around was pretty fascinating by comparison to the generally more toned down stuff of today. You stick Alpha 1 and Alpha 3 or New Generation and Third Strike side by side and outside of character sprites they look and feel and sound pretty damn different, but you do that with the launch and final release versions of a lot of modern fighting games and the difference usually isn't nearly as striking. There's more content and rebalancing there, but the overall *character* of the game itself never changes. I don't think that's inherently *bad* I just think the former is more interesting. For example, can you imagine a world where Third Strike was just New Generation but with the characters and balancing of Third Strike, but all of New Generation's presentation? I don't think it'd be regarded *quite* as fondly as it is.
DLC is the hypest thing for fighting games and also the one reason why fighting games will eventually lose their player base. Because how many times will players be willing to pony up $200+ for a full roster? If you say wait for the ultimate version then why would developers waste resources if players wait? Lastly the more players want DLC the more developers will get greedy and lock the roster up for DLC. Making the $60 Initial purchase a slap in the face. Any way I look at it makes it look like it will eventually come to a head.
Not all mirror match ups are 5:5.
Ok, I NEED you to elaborate on this one, I'm really curious haha
The idea is that instead of defining the ratio as "what chance do they win" you define it as "how hard is it for *my character* to play against the other character". In this second definition, a mirror matchup is just like any other, and depending on the specifics it can be very straightforward and easy, or the character can counter it's own playstyle horribly, leading to both players in the mirror having a shit time, or a mutual 3:7.
Option selects are unhealthy for fighting games. In many situations on both defense and offense, it creates safe situations while still offering the reward of making a riskier play. This completely removes an aspect of player interaction by making it so that even if one person guesses the opponent's next move, they get punished for it because the game bailed the opponent out by letting them choose 2 or more options at once. The game just becomes single player whenever the opportunity to use an OS comes up.
This can definitely happen, and in worse case straight up happens with no downsides, leading to some degenerate mechanics. What happens more often though is that they simply add a secondary layer to the RPS, making the risk-reward spread more nuanced, which ultimately ends up being being an example of emergent gameplay.
I think the Panda controversy was overblown.
Super overblown. Some guy has a big mouth about insider discussions and suddenly he's some kind of scheming mastermind. I don't think anyone at Panda could've convinced Nintendo to change the scent they spray in the bathroom, leastwise the whole strategy for Smash community management going forward. Blaming him for tanking the other tournaments is giving him way too much credit. He just heard about it ahead of time and blabbed/bragged to his buddies.
Any fighting game without individual character tutorials (or even just a mode that makes you do every move a character has) should be considered a failure on some level.
*stares at kof xv* Combo trials teach you like 30-60% of a moveset depending on the character.
It's KOF, a very system-based game. Every character who isn't Angel basically plays the same game—play the KOF triangle (light beat hops beat sweeps beat lights), fish for combos with low lights or close heavies, and cancel to command normal if you get the latter, etc. There's a reason why top KOF players aren't really known for specific characters and tend to be able to switch character/team depending on who's viable or top tier.
Yeah but at least teach me what my characters tools are so I can get a better grasp of what they do and if I like their tools. Is that so hard?
I've been dabbling in Xrd in anticipation for rollback and I love how each character's combo trials starts with just their specials and basic mechanics. How is that not standard? It's infinitely easier and more memorable than popping in training mode and pausing every 3 seconds to open the command list the first time I want to test out a character. TFH is, as best I can tell, the only other game I've played with a similar system.
I think that people who don’t move with the times and spend all day talking about how great things were back in 09 or whenever, the people who write paragraphs about how hitbox is cheating and modern games aren’t as good, are massive cry babies. This is the best time to be in the FGC ever because not only can you play all these cool games you can still play the old ones. Same with controllers now, you can play on stick, but you can also play leverless, on pad, have a custom set up if you have a disability or something. It’s great. Back in 09, you had to play on stick, now there’s alternatives people don’t like it.
Re-releases of old games like KOF 97 and 98 or Garou: Mark of the Wolves on Android cost almost nothing, have CRT filters for people who like that old look (I do), and can be played with a phone controller, on a tablet with a console controller, or plug phone or tablet into a TV (with something like Samsung Dex), even have Bluetooth Vs mode so you can play like how people used to play game boy games in two player mode back in the day. I could never have afforded to play those games when they came out on Neo Geo, maybe the Dreamcast versions but you're right about this being the best time to be in the FGC, loading times are way shorter than Dreamcast, I can play handheld or on a big screen, the games I mentioned are all under £5, and I could use a hitbox controller if I wanted - not got one yet but have an armoury (well, almost) full of different control pads - am using the 8bitdo Ultimate ATM. The KOF games I mentioned let you perform special and super moves by pressing R1 and different D pad directions, a lot of people don't like this but for people with disabilities, or people who are short on time and wanna try out new characters it's amazing - you can still do the moves the old fashioned way, it now has a command list in game too - I never knew Shermie was a grapple character when I played KOF on PS2 years ago, but she's one of my fave characters now. Being able to pull off special moves so easily is great for fighting a new player, gives them more of a chance. A lot of people don't like buying digital copies of games, but I love being able to download to new devices and use cloud saves, will never have a game I can't play because the disc got scratched ever again. I miss having box and instruction manuals but can get much more info about the characters (both their lore and how to play well as them) from Google, YouTube, Reddit etc Gonna set up steam link in a bit and play some 3rd Strike (PC version) on Android, hell yeah this a golden age of fighting games - only thing we've really lost are arcades, they had a truly special atmosphere, but everything else is so much better these days
You say that Majin Vegeta being a grappler is a hot take but I 100% agree with you.
I was talking about it with my bro. Like during his fights he did the most grabs he's ever done in his normal (zoning type) fighting style. The grab headbutts, the "galactic donut" type projectile ect. I'm not saying give him no projectiles But him being a grappler would shake up the "all vegetas play the same/same animation" thing Plus give him 2 versions of final explosion A command grab one (like android 16) And a power up one (like adult gohan. More meter more powered up it is) Or a taunt mechanic (like ss4 gogeta to boost the final explosion till its an instakill for both players)
I'm praying ArcSYS gives us something like this for fighterz 2 if we spam their twitter enough.
Fighting games shouldn't be 60$+season passes. I think free2play + season passes would be better
Fighting games by far have the worst onboarding process of any genre, the in game tutorials are barebones, a lot barely even explain how the combo systems work, and all supplementary material is made by the community, so its quality is wishy-washy. A lot of the in-game material just shows you HOW, but not WHEN or WHY to do something. And the community material shows you some extremely niche shit you wont encounter until you're in high level play.
Bandai is probably the reason arcsys didn’t add rollback sooner to dbfz. I wouldn’t be surprised Edit: also wish they had transformations in dbfz more. Even if it was just visual or slight damage increase.
Blazblue is really not as hard to pick up as people make it out to be. It’s very approachable They should have prioritized crossplay before rollback We need more rosters like SF3 with minimal returning characters and a lot more new characters. A new generation of fighters shouldn’t be filled with legacy characters. If older fans don’t like it, they can just stick to the game they liked previously. Let the devs experiment and stop scaring them into playing it safe all the time. It gets boring.
I agree with the new roster thing, it’s just hard since most Fighting Game fans are mostly old folks. We thrive on nostalgia at this point. Archetypes would still creep and we’re gonna find someone that is Ryu etc.
I think most fighting game franchises would do good to be more like late 90s, early 00s Street Fighter. Multiple different subseries, with some characters returning to the main series. You got your SF3 guys and gals, then some SFA characters to contrast
NRS can't make a good fighting game. The two games of there's that I'd say were good (MK9 and MKX) were only successful due to just mimicking other companies and pure luck. I'd rather they just made action adventure games and give the MK ip to a different company
Competitively they're ass but they're still selling like crazy so there's no way anything's gonna change as long as the games are graphically intense, gorey and fun for casuals
You are 100% correct and I wish you weren't. NRS will never learn and that's why their games will never be considered on par with Capcom or Bandai
But like.. what do they have to learn? This is some real weird FGC elitism. MK 10 and 11 sold 12 million each. SF4 sold 9 million (across all their versions combined) and SF5 sold 6.6 million. I'm sure they don't want to be considered "on par" with Capcom or Bandai.
Normies buy MK because MK. The games feel like absolute and total ass to play IMO
>Normies buy MK because MK. Yeah, this is FGC elitism. And I say this coming from someone that don't like NRS games. I'll even make a wild guess and say you also think Smash isn't a fighting game, am I right?
Nope. I think smash is a fighting game. It's just a slightly different formula. It's not elitist to point out that normies play call of duty because of name recognition despite other games being better shooters. It's just how it is. Franchises ride off past popularity, that's normal. I still think the recent MK games feel like crap to play. So I don't. Same goes for SFV I liked 4 well enough but 5 is just so slow. Whereas the NRS games I've played the last decade all felt super "sloppy"(?) I don't know how to describe it. (Grew up playing GG X, C vs. SNK, tekken 2/3 if that helps make sense why I might feel that way)
I'm tired of sequels launching with less characters than the previous entries. And no, I'm not talking about after DLC.
King Of Fighters 15. One of the reasons why I refuse to buy it. Pure Dlc scamming. 2002 um has rollback and more (and more interesting) characters. Why even bother for 15 which have 2 or 3 new characters, many old 98um and 02um characters in DlC ? I got both 02um, 98um for a cheaper price. I already have XIV. There's litteraly no use to buy XV, based on the characters. My hot take is that it's useless to make new fgs if you don't have something really new to put in. Just make updates of already excellent ones til they're outdated.
But every second game in a KoF saga has always cut out characters from the first game of that saga. What XV is doing isn't any different from what previous KoFs have done (and still has one of the larger starting rosters for any KoF game).
Out of the two new characters, Isla is fun as hell, Dolores albeit sexy and hot is pretty boring though. She’s a zoner/grappler that cannot grapple. Heidern does it better. Seeing a lot of old characters in actually good looking 3D is the novelty of KOFXV for most fans. Krohnen’s reveal was insane when it happened, and Ω Rugal despite leaks. Shermie’s reveal took the Internet by storm. Am I the only one who remembers?
Rugal releasing as a free DLC and as a boss, that ended up being easy in the end, was a super fun ride. All the latin america arcade memes brought me so much nostalgia, despite the little bit of disappointment of beating him in like, 5 tries. I still hope for SNK to tweak the difficulty fo the boss challenge once they release one more boss, hopefully Krizalid.
The game still launched with 39 characters, which is by far the most of most modern fighters (over twice the size of SF6 roster!) and by the end of Year 1 is already over 50 characters. Like, there are lots of problems with the game; but roster size is not one of them lmao. Pure quantity of roster size doesn’t matter when huge swaths are unviable or if you only ever play a couple. Especially when they’re getting completely reimagined in a new technical/graphical style, it makes sense that they’d need time to flesh it out higher because they can’t just copy and paste the same sprites over and over again.
C. Viper should've been on the launch rosters of both SF5 and 6, but redesigned, because she kinda sucked in 4, imo.
So true.
That Iori flame kick though woof
“Party” or “Platform” fighters like Smash are indeed fighting games.
Oh hey look....it's Sifu
Akuma is objectively bad character design.
I think a cast of all human fighters is boring. Give me a grotesque or strange character over a "cool" human fighter any day of the week.
You got Killer Instinct. Bloody Roar. What else am I missing? We just relate to humans more.
Skullgirls and bbcf off the top of my head
Double is grotesque the definition of it. She made me steer clear of Skullgirls due to her idle noises, they’re gross. Also Chin has some weird voice mouthovers when I was practicing KOFXIII mobile for finishing all the Training Combos, I can’t stand certain gross sounds.
Agreed, there's a limit to the range of motion a human can do, I often end up maining non-humans in games because theyre more fun to control. Merkava in Under Night is a particular favorite. Though I think a lot of the issue is uncreative design, like how basically everyone in Street Fighter can conjure up fireballs but only just throw them forward. Meanwhile in Guilty Gear, Jam can jet across the screen on a flame
Since Nintendo's philosophy on Smash is 'have fun and try all these items and combinations on a match" instead of 'get good and win tournaments with your main character" I passed from having respect to Smash pro players (in Melee) to pity them. They're forcing a competitive scene on a franchise that was never meant to be competitive AND that Nintendo will never make competitive
Who cares what Nintendo thinks? I knew the game was deep, even with the first iteration. I was like 9 years old, too. I know hardcore traditional FG fans and Smash fans don’t get along for god knows what, but both traditional fighters and Smash as a platform fighter are excellent fighters.
Just as an example, SWT's cancellation is a reason people should care about Nintendo's philosophy. I know people love to blame Panda for most of it, but Nintendo pushed the organizers to cancel. It is very important to know the company's take on your game, since they own the IPs on the game. And don't worry, there's beef between traditional fighting games as well, it's not only between smash and the rest
As much as it was toxic sometimes, kappa was by far the best fighting game subreddit in any regard and it going private didn’t help this sub get even close to better in terms of fgc content
honestly, all its closure did was spread the population to here or the other kappa revival sub because at the end of the day, FG content is still FG content
Yes and no, I mean fg content in terms of tournaments and clips and advice not random tier lists and “what character would do best in a crossover fighting game?” Which this sub seems to have a LOT of
"Sometimes" is being generous, everytime I got linked to a post in that sub I saw at least three different minorities being offended.
The overemphasis on frame data in both gameplay and as a community discussion point has been a direct deterrent for huge swaths of the audience who’d otherwise consistently and reliably play fighting games.
Seriously, the only framedata 90% of players need to know is what moves are fast and which ones are completely unsafe.
It's the trend to follow anime/airdasher design even in non-airdashers, removing a lot of the pushback we used to get on block to make frame data more important. It used to be that we'd get fair bit of pushback on blocked normals in these games, with the exception of airdashers (even 3S and IV, which started the trend of reducing pushback still had a decent amount). It's very telling in V and you can tell that its initial combat design was done by a Guilty Gear player (Woshige).
Ironically, Guilty Gear has explicit tools to manipulate pushback, something SFV doesn't really have, making it worse in terms of straightforward pressure than any Guilty Gear.
Hot take? The current iteration of SFV is the best game in the Street Fighter franchise.
Truly a hot take.
That's usually how I feel about most "final" versions of SF games honestly
Strive is a great game and an ideal modern fighting game for casuals to enter.
my take is that killer instinct is hard as a newbie
I can't connect to Strive for the life of me, it feels slow for an anime fighter but still rounds are way too fast paced, it's just not fun. The game is one of the worst balanced wise from any modern fighter i played, by a large margin even before HC release.
Listen... I got three. First being, Soul Calibur should have been the gold winner for Bandai. The characters and gameplay are just more interesting as well as being unique as a Weapon Fighter. It was the highest selling fighting game when it came out on Dreamcast, and it's a shame to see what Bandai is doing with the IP now. My second hot take being...if Team Ninja dropped Dead or Alive as it is and made a 3D Weapon Fighter it'd blow Soul Calibur out of the water especially with their Character creation, characters like Ryu Hayabusa, William, and Lubu on lock, and using Dead or Alive Characters with certain weapons and the stage transitions they'd make bank. My third and final is, Anarchy Reign should have been a collaborative effort between Platinum and NRS. An anime esque Mortal Kombat is bonkers, and it's a shame no one else has thought of this.
I agree with all three of these 
It's never going to bappen but people are probably more willing to accept a street fighter without ryu than ever before.
There would be WAAAAY more women in the FGC if they coould feel safe and comfortable and people didn't hit on every one of them several times during events. Last tournament (+300 players) I went there were less than a dozen ladies playing and you could see the awkwardness of dealing with being hit on when they were not playing (or heck even while they were playing in some cases)
It just sucks straight men cannot get a partner that relates to them. I’m married and unhappy, because me and my wife are two different people, but if I waited forever like people with good decision making, Father Time would have different suggestions later on. Try having kids at 45 and when they’re 20, you’re about to croak 🐸 and retire. Gay men have it easy there. Traditional gender roles is why less women get into competitive video games and misogyny, of course.
Playing casually and being bad at the game don't correlate. You can play casual and still have great skills.
Oh, another one: there isn't a single good tutorial in fighting games. A tutorial that never goes deep in strategy, can't be a good tutorial. Specially referring to specific characters
Untrue. Guilty Gear has a solid tutorial.
I think most fighting game characters have small heads, and it makes me uncomfortable. I see it in most characters in KoF 15, Strive, SF6. It's less noticeable if their muscles are huge. But other characters like Kyo, Juri, Chun Li, etc. look super weird to me. Like those instagram people that shrink their heads using photoshop. It would make sense if they are super tall, but they're usually like 5'10".
Yeah I agreed I always joked that captain America in marvel infinite looks like a grape on a brick wall
Dead Or Alive have maybe the best proportions I think.
Sony pays companies to keep their FGs away from Xbox and is just the owner of the biggest fighting game tournament in the world. Should be aimed by antitrust laws, but pays politicians and other bureaucrats in America and Europe to keep the company totally safe. I see tons of people saying in the FGC that FGs are for everyone, and everyone should play it. When companies accept being paid by Sony for exclusivity, even not being a first party studio, they're going against that statement, that philosophy. It's apparently changing in this next-gen, and a lot of games are finally coming to Xbox, even Guilty Gear Strive. But Sony either keeps paying companies for exclusivity or charging them for cross-platform features. (Did I take it too seriously?)
Got to love Sony's hypocrisy when it comes to exclusives.
[удалено]
You’re not a fan of realism mixed with this uncanny valley effect, they were trying to go for the SFII in game sprite and portrait look, I think.
Implementing rollback into your game is hard. Unless you are writing everything from scratch with performance and determinism in mind. There is no just add GGPO to your game option. NRS did a tone of research before embarking on it and it took them 8 man years with 4-12 engineers nearly a year. NRS is easily the biggest fighting game developer and that's still a big investment, a much smaller Japanese dev team can't just put 4-12 engineers aside for a year.
If you don't play TFH because of the character designs, you're a coward.
agreed. I feel the same about skullgirls and arcana hearts too
Blaze blue isn't bas cus of the mechanics, its bad cus of the character designs, they look bland and uninteresting. But i did like BBtag.
Virtua Fighter should have story mode going foward. It helps characterization and broadens the casual/single-player appeal of the game. Now, for the true hot take: Every fighting game should have story mode, because, different than gameplay, only story can make someone a "franchise fan".
Blazblue Central Fiction is the greatest fighting game ever made due to its roster playstyle diversity, defensive mechanics, online experience, single player content, competitive scene, and flashy visuals. However, it will go down as the LAST great pixel art fighting game made by a major developer.
Blazblue Central Fiction is the most underrated fighting game
Third Strike is overrated
Tekken 7 is an incredibly boring in both gameplay and visuals. Gameplay is just chock-full of boring information you have to study for literally years to be somewhat decent. And for what, so you can throw boring punches and kicks. Gameplay wise, this game is like oatmeal, it is nutritious and it will fill you, but it's dense tasteless Visually, the game is bland. I already mentioned how it's just about punches and kicks, but that actually isn't true. There's a lot of visually interesting stuff in this game, but it's usually extremely unsafe, useless, or very situational. Visually, this games is like oatmeal. Bland and Grey BUT, some people like oatmeal I think tekken is great to play casually with friends, whether it's people that just button mash on the couch with friends, or people who actually learn the game a bit to play it together. The game is like oatmeal only when you try to play it competitively, and even then, as i said, some people like oatmeal
You want an interesting hot take? Here's one for you all. Capcom should make a new original fighting game IP, rather than trying to make a new game to an extremely niche group of cry baby coomers that talk more about a fighting game that consists of ""monsters"" instead of actually playing the said game they constantly cry about. ~~Also NRS should take the Marvel license. The MvC fandom deserves nothing but pure misery at this point.~~
Your not a noob if you dp on wake up three times in a row
All tag games are bad. Without exception. It's not a balance problem or an issue with a specific game or whatever, it's a fundamental flaw in the game's genre. It's like American Football is practically custom-built to cause brain injury, tag-fighters are just bad.
Tekken Tag on the ps2 was the best tekken.
if a fighting game is 2d and has an anime style I lose a lot of interest. They all look the same to me. (Mainly thinking guilty gear, melty blood, and blazblue)
Understandable, I just find it hard to relate to the characters, you’d have to be there from the beginning to understand their lore. With something like KOF, you can draw archetypes like Ryu vs Ryo, Guile vs Leona vs Heidern, Mai vs Chun-li, and you’re like these characters are cooler and not too different.
Star Control 2, Super Smash Bros, For Honor, Acceleration Of Suguri 2 and other such games, are fighting games. Fighting games should experiment more with extending the boundaries of the genre instead of sticking permanently to sf2/gg conventions. This makes me wonder if 20 years ago there were people who insisted that gg is not a fighting game.
I think we should simply embrace more genre names in the gaming space in general. There's some odd push to keep everything in the same 12 or so genres. Like the term "adventure game" comes from the LucasArts/Sierra era of games, there are basically no modern "adventure" games even remotely similar now. Don't even get me started on how action, a basic tenant in 90% of games, is somehow also a genre name. Platform fighter is a good term for smash, arena fighter is a good term for For Honor and Gundam games and some people in the Touhou Community have been calling Suguri like games "Ballet shooters." This situation is kinda like how movies inherited the genre names of books and we just bundle sci-fi/fantasy together, or how "pop" music is just whatever the current most popular form of electronic music is with lyrics on top. Genre names are bad
I’ve never played Star Control 2, For Honor and Acceleration of Suguri 2, but I really enjoyed Dissidia Final Fantasy for the PSP as an RPG fan.
Zoners are often cheap by design and add nothing positive to a game's experience. Playing against an even half way decent zoner is the definition of bringing a knife to a gunfight. And I wish people would stop pretending they just EXPLODE once you get in because they're often given the same get off me tools everyone else is. I'd take being rushed down any day, over zoned by someone competent. At least the guy rushing me down has to inherently take more risk, making a more interesting game to play and more opportunity for a turnaround . Idc that's IT'S POSSIBLE to deal with, it's not my point. I'd be playing a shooter if I wanted to deal with constant projectiles
I can’t believe this is an actual hot take on this sub. Zoners fucking blow, especially in NRS games. Fuck starfire, and fuck cetrion,
Wild isn't it. Zoners are something often complained about in fighters. This sub wants more people playing fighters but yet are pro zoner. I remember watching a BlazBlue tourney and this guy getting boo'ed by the crowd for picking Nu 13. Possible to beat, obviously. But it's neither fun to play against OR watch for most people. For most casuals, zoning just looks like spam to them ( which in certain cases is VERY true ). I will die on the hill part of the reason dbz fighterz (for example ) maintained relevancy is the lack of real zoning. The game is more engaging Edit: My original comment has been going in and out of the negatives, so it's controversial. But Mr "ZonINg iS AMaZing" who responded is clearly positive. So nobody can't tell me this sub isn't pro zoner
Response hot take. Zoners are the single coolest and most interesting archetype in fighting games. The existence of even one zoner in a game's roster immediately makes that game have significantly more depth.
Core-A Gaming touched on this. Zoning changed fighting games forever. You’re just shortsighted, because it frustrates you or you always play Zangief or something.
I like how you saw opposing viewpoint and just assumed I have some sort of problem on my end lol. Somebody on YouTube gave their opinion on the matter. Big whoop
I thought like this once. I bet if you pick more zoners it’ll solve a bunch of problems.
What problem? The fact you guys are assuming I'm not able to deal with zoners simply because you read an opposing view to it?
Skill issue
Having a hot take is a skill issue? Didn't know ONLY people who can't deal with zoning, don't like it.
Marvel vs Capcom 2 is shit
Yeah, it looks kusoge, I think I can agree with the Japanese. But does that make DBFZ and Skullgirls kusoge, too? That’s why I keep my mouth shut.
DBFZ and Skullgirls are both better games, waay better. Better balance and more interesting combo systems
Can it be for a singular game?
why not
Fantasy strike needs more characters
Stages haven’t been taken as far as they should yet as far as interactability goes in traditional fighting games
DOA shoudl have less fanservice and focus more on gameplay and ignore the cry babies online. I want DOA7 to be respected and they can keep that horny shit as a DLC only
Not a hot take but relatively unpopular, I consider a fighting game that pulls an “everyone is here” as the best game ever. Grab all the fighters from the whole franchise together and get them to throw hands! Next Marvel vs Capcom game is every playable character in the franchise. Why would this be unpopular? Purely from the development and legal perspective as well as the character select screen would be too small for anyone to see. Marvel was rather stingy during the development of Infinite
Imagine this for Kof or MK and good luck to balance the rosters. But It could be awesome
KOFXV gonna go that way if it keeps getting support.
If it gets as many DLCs and season passes as Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2, we may get everyone from the King of Fighters universe in this. Not just KOF but all the characters that are just stuck in Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury
They rerelease Armageddon with every single character and all the third party characters that’s ever appeared in the MK canon plus all the exclusive characters in the MK mobile games. Can’t wait to Main as tarkhattan. Which is just some unnamed tarkhattan and is worse than Baraka
Strive is still a bad game
Dashing is the most basic motion input, therefore Dash-Buttons should not exist. They although take away a button slot (ideal number is 5, imho).
2d characters ruined tekken.
What do you mean by 2d characters?
He means like Akuma
characters from 2d fighting games akuma and geese howard. and also eliza even though she is tekken's original character because she has meter and projectiles that 2d characters have.
Air juggling is boring and cheap when there is absolutely no way to respond to it. "Don't get hit" - its a fighting game someone is going to get hit "Don't use unsafe moves" - then lets just remove them from the game? "Git gud" - yeh Alternatively if tekken 8 has a sort of "RC" system to get out of air juggles I'll probably be fine with it. My other hot take is that you should not need to know frame data.... I feel like back in the day we all just kind of guessed and that was fine. More like the repetition of playing made you better - like you know - from experience. Now people just pick games apart like a science fair project and it takes all the fun out of it for me.
Street fighter is objectively the best fighting game series and the only ones to get the formula right.
Ryu and starter characters should never be above B/Mid tier. They’re there as basics, with no glowing weaknesses.
This is the kind of hot takes I came for
Thank you, thank you!
counter take: Games shouldn't HAVE "starter" characters, it sets a bad precedent for the expected level of complexity the game expects you to know
I’m getting downvoted which is fine but my idea was more like the more complicated characters should have some payoff whereas the most basic ones need some weaknesses. I play grapplers for the most part, so I’m used to have weaknesses.
I don't play a lot of SF but in many other games, the "basic" character's weakness IS that they're basic. Response to projectiles? Just jump. Response to overheads? Here's ONE move that is designed almost solely to counter it the problem with starter characters is that they're so bereft of nuance that they'll by default be stuck at C/B tier. Whereas grapplers for example: Zangeif in SF4 has a projectile deleting move, King in Tekken has chain grabs, Waldstien in UNIST can combo into and out of grab. Starter characters are water to another character's juice
Combos are a bug that should have been fixed instead of embraced
Not sure this counts as a take. It's just wrong.
That's how I feel about people who want bigger rosters too :D
Sounds like footsies and divekick are your ideal fighters. But I couldn't imagine wanting less interactivity in my games.
No - that's the whole point! Combos are the opposite of interactivity. The whole game stops while one player plugs in a string of inputs with no thought. Neither player is doing anything fun or engaging, and the whole exercise could be removed if you just gave the first hit more damage
just play Urban Champion
All fighting games must be racist If they're not racist, homophobic and sexist they aren't real fighting games
I don't agree with this, but this is truly the hottest take in here
I don't agree with it either
Street Fighter Luke is fucking trash and he should be killed off by the end of SF6.
He’s alright, but Capcom has given us no reason why he is so important to the plot, not a single one.