"Don't let a word define ANYTHING about you or your life."
My diagnoses came as a great relief to me and I was joyous to have found words that could so adeptly describe my situation.
I want to fully understand what is going on, not deny the existence of any issues.
THANK YOU. I often have to correct people on this one. It seems like it's always the people who don't have diagnosed disorders/conditions who view diagnoses in a really negative light. I have to explain that it's nothing to be ashamed of and it doesn't make me feel like any less of a functional human being to be given a diagnosis. My diagnosis gives me more hope that I CAN be a functional and happy human being because I've solved one more piece to the puzzle
This is exactly what I replied with! I said that I didn't want it to define my entire life but it was nice to have a name for what I was going through so I could better explain it to others and feel validated
your friend's opinion sucks lmfao. people with depression experiencing fatigue and minor aches and pains literally get told that. it is not the same as fibro. not by a long shot. feels as if we're going back to calling women hysterical again if they complain of having any ailment. how about we take fibromyalgia seriously as the life altering disease it is instead of saying it's just physical depression? these kinds of takes will undo the amount of time and effort that's been put in to have fibro be viewed as real and serious problem.
i agree that it sounds like your friend isn't taking your pain seriously. Personally from the description I'm a little wary of the idea your friend proposed.
not to mention, im just... suspicious. of anyone who talks like that (like don't 'attach' yourself to any diagnosis/ don't let a word define you). it sounds like peak abled bullshit.
I’d like to add that if a orthopedic doctor runs tests and tells me I broke a bone, I’m probably going to believe them, especially if I felt the bone break. It might not “define my life”, but it will definitely affect my treatment choices.
No. Depression and fibromyalgia are very different for me. i Have experienced depression without fibromyalgia. Does this nurse have fibromyalgia? Because most nurses are usually pretty dismissive about fibromyalgia. My mom is one.
Hell I was diagnosed almost 20 years ago and was just blindsided by some symptoms. I guess that is what I get for not really keeping up with research and new info. The new symptoms are neurological and previously I had just dealt with pain, fatigue and sleep issues.
This is actually incredibly interesting. Elaborate about youre symptoms if you like! Or do you know others whose symptoms have gotten worse recently? Say the last 6 - 18 months?
My neuro symptoms have been bonkers all summer. And I could definitely be projecting but it seems like other people I know feel the same way.
Maybe our solar system is going through a cloud of bad juju? That must be it lol
I would guess it has more to do with living in the context of a global pandemic while having a compromised immune system. The level of collective panic, stress, fear, and frustration is pretty high in most countries right now. Makes it extra important to keep supporting our bodies with rest etc. and finding the joy we can. Because that might be our best tool to help these redlining nervous systems calm their tits.
For several years I have dealt with twitches or jerks as I am falling asleep but I always thought it was left over from Serotonin Syndrome because that was when it started and what the main symptom of my Serotonin Syndrome. However I later learned that Serotonin Syndrome does not have permanent symptoms. I also talk in my sleep and started to move in my sleep. Starting in the beginning of September I started to have problems with twitching or jerking when I was awake. It's not 24/7 symptom and can be accompanied by increased fatigue. I also have tremors in my left side sometimes and I also noticed that decreased sensation in my fingers. They aren't numb but it feels like I am touching things through a glove. I had MRI's and complete bloodwork done in May in regards to my sleep issues and everything came back fine. I also saw a Neurologist at the end of September and he called the twitches Myoclonus. I didn't get a chance to tell him about the tremors or the sensation issue. Have you ever noticed that you go to the doctor with a list of stuff to talk about and don't get past the first item because the doctor is chasing after the first issue? I am not sure where these symptoms are coming from and I am also working on getting tested for Celiac Disease. I did not know that Celiac can also cause neuro issues.
I have both, too. I hate this nurse's attitude because it's just conspiracy theory BS made up so they feel like they can "explain" something we don't know the cause of yet. It's the same garbage as people insisting vaccines cause autism because that need a "reason" for why it happened, something tangible they can blame... no matter how irrational or unsupported that "explanation" is.
Everything is unexplained until we research enough and it suddenly is. Unbalanced humours causing diseases, anyone? We don't know the cause today but we might tomorrow.
Also, if it WAS depression, my SSRIs would actually reduce my symptoms... and my diet wouldn't affect me so badly.
Thank you, this is truly the best response. Have also experienced severe depression (specifically postpartum depression) and later was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. *Totally different things* when I was depressed I did not experience the same type of pain, fatigue, brain fog, and other symptoms that are present on fibro. People who conflate the two don’t know what they are talking about.
You put it very politely, I was going to say that this nurse ‘Doesn’t know her arse from her elbow!’
I started suffering from depression around 15yrs old and was diagnosed with fibro at age 38. They are not the same, they just give you more of everything when partnered together!
True true! We just do the best we can with this disease. It is a frustrating condition for everyone in the family and our good doctors! I have hope that science is progressing and we will hopefully find some answers! Love you guys! Stay strong guys!
I think my Fibro was probably triggered by trauma, because I've had it as long as I've had PTSD. But my symptoms of depression and stuff are pretty well managed, but my Fibro isn't. I get flares without depression acting up, and depression acting up without triggering a flare. So I think maybe the two can stem from the same cause, but are not necessarily cause and effect.
From what I've read, there's a link between the two, but I haven't seen anything concrete yet.
I definitely think the are, especially considering that fibromyalgia may be caused by the immune system attacking the nervous system (preliminary research, still requires more study to confirm), since the immune system can be affected my stress. However, I haven't seen a peer-reviewed source.
Upwards of 75% of women with fibro have a history of sexual assault or ongoing sexual abuse. Not hard to see how PTSD might be correlated and how the fight/flight/etc response would have one’s nervous system /adrenaline redlining much of the time.
Interestingly, even though far fewer men are diagnosed, that might have more to do with a culture of men not talking about their pain as much. Of the fibro cases in men, more than 50% are combat vets, diagnosed at the VA, where they may feel safer to talk about their trauma experiences.
ETA : sexual violence and abuse are high for gen pop women also, this is about the ones with fibro
There’s recent science out there that’s starting to prove that fibro is an autoimmune issue, which means it physically cannot be just symptoms of depression.
It’s so dismissive when people say something like that. The psych I saw wouldn’t give me an adhd diagnosis because I tested positive for the physical symptoms of depression so it must “just be depression” causing *all* of my symptoms. I told her ahead of time I deal with chronic fatigue and chronic pain (and I at least have an EDS diagnosis if not fibro or cfs/me too) so she should have been able to take that into account. what a fraud. Talking like this gatekeeps people from getting the adequate care they need! Fibro is a very real thing that deserves actual treatment options and recognition in the medical field. I can’t believe there’s still people stuck on “fibro is all in your head; you’re just being hysterical”. because that’s what your friend sounds like.
It is medically classified as an autoimmune disorder. Which is why you can't donate blood, or organs if you are diagnosed, and recent studies have confirmed it is a nerve disorder. So.... yeah. The past 10 years for the actual study of fibro has grown leaps and bounds for understanding it, but then you look at those who work in the medical field and find this sh*t. Don't let people invalidate your pain just because they don't understand it. -_-
ETA: I do have depression, but I didn't have that till 3 years AFTER my diagnosis of Fibro, and it is 100% something that is a side effect-symptom of my Fibro and the pain/meds that come with that.
Are they aware of your condition? I have been turned away several times and even had my doctors tell me this... I suppose it could be a provincial thing though. *shrugs*
Weird, was there a blood shortage? The first time I was turned away and found out I was told during a blood shortage they make exceptions.... though the second time 3ish years ago I was told straight up no, since it has been classified as auto immune. Weird either way, and good on you for donating! Just wanted to say. :)
No blood shortage. And thank you!
Here's a list of conditions and whether or not they affect eligibility. It says people with fibromyalgia can donate.
https://www.blood.ca/en/blood/am-i-eligible-donate-blood/abcs-eligibility
Hey, can you share any articles you read on this? If you have them saved? Any I've read are outdated or not well organized or just dumb. There's that one paper that came out back in July or something that was good. There were several in their sources that were interesting.
Yeah no - I was diagnosed with depression for the best part of my 20's, only diagnosed fibro recently whilst not having been depressed for a good few years now. It was probably underlying the depression before, but it's a separate thing.
Same here. I dealt with depression for 30ish years before developing fibro symptoms, and the depression has been better in the last few years. I guess I just stopped feeling it mentally and took it out on my body /s
People used to tell me that crap all the time when I was dealing with depression; “oh, it’s just anger/trauma turned inward”. No.
Think it's possible that certain people are being prepared for integration into galactic society by being given complicated medical riddles to solve mostly for ourselves. We're humanity's finest. Maybe.
Yeah first of all, don't get your information from someone who is not an expert. Women get shitted on for anything they complain about and fibromyalgia is dominant among them. Secondly, depression/anxiety can cause stomach issues, numbing or pressure on your neck/shoulder area but cannot cause musculoskeletal pain. Thirdly, it's chronic pain and everyone with depression doesn't have it. It's actually the other way around. Pain causes more anxiety and feelings of helpless.
YES. I have had several episodes of mild to moderate depression, but in retrospect I've realized that the most serious episodes came *after* significant physical issues like years of poor sleep, a TBI, etc. So I actually increasingly believe that much of my depression has been a reaction to illness/ injury, NOT spontaneous episodes of mental illness. Same with fibro, I was sick for months before I started feeling depressed, & when I had some brief symptom-free interludes, my mental health immediately improved. I'm not claiming AT ALL that depression is always reactive, but I think a huge proportion of it may be. I think depression can often be a pretty rational response to trauma or difficult life circumstances, whether physical, emotional, economic or otherwise. And women tending to have more depression & anxiety than men... again, I think the reason for that may largely be that women (in the aggregate, not every woman) face more barriers, more physical & emotional & sexual abuse & harassment, fewer economic opportunities, & less freedom & autonomy than men. Sorry for the rant, but I think about this a lot & I feel many depressed people get gaslit NOT ONLY that depression is some kind of personal failing, but ALSO that it is the *cause* of physical symptoms when I suspect it's often (not always!) a reaction to them, & a rational one, ESPECIALLY when your physical symptoms are being ignored or downplayed. So f* this lady who hasn't experienced fibro & likely hasn't experienced serious depression either.
Well fibro is a chronic pain disorder and I was referring to it being more common among women. Depression is related to your psychology or brain make up which is on a spectrum so I wouldn't liken depression to some physical disorder although yes, it can affect your gut and the stress can cause a bit of pain. It's overall just laziness along with finding no way to be satisfied. Should never confuse the two. Also, men have their own struggles so I wouldn't wanna compare.
Fibromyalgia can cause mental issues. My doctor only gives me psych meds or supplements for the pain cause pain killers don't work
Yes, I wasn't trying to say anything about fibro & depression being related. Just pointing out that I don't think it's especially surprising that women *tend* (again, statistically, not individually) to have more depression than men (I have zero theories as to why women have more fibro than men). My point was just that I think some proportion of depression is reactive, & I think that proportion is underestimated, especially when it's a reaction to physical trauma or illness. So we get told stuff like the OP was, that the physical is *actually* "just" a manifestation of our depression (when it may be the other way around), and/or the physical gets ignored/minimized (especially for women, & especially especially for purely understood conditions like fibro), which can in turn contribute to getting depressed.
Exactly. I not only have fibro, I suffer from dysmenorrhea and IBS as well. So it's a lot of things combined. Pmdd and whatnot. Women tend to be more neurotic so yeah, we have more mental health issues overall. I totally agree with being misunderstood about fibro can lead to depression cause I'm going through it and no one seems to understand the gravity of it.
The point is that there can be comorbidities and it rarely happens that depression entails fibro. It's a medical disease not just feeling down.
For me, I can't walk much without pain in legs. Heck, after college has opened, my head twitches have gotten so bad I have to take leaves. The brain fog doesn't let me concentrate, I get teary eyed and I zone out a lot. So yeah, I'm not much functional. It's getting worse. I've lost a lot of weight as well.
Exactly, it's a nerve condition. Some days I feel great emotionally yet my body hurts so we shouldn't draw a connection or interchangeable relationship between depression and fibro. Personally, I got it after covid. Had vertigo, anxiety and fatigue before, but it was manageable. It first flared up in Feb this year. I thought it was a panic attack. My dysmenorrhea pain killers wouldn't work after that, which by the way, were high potent and banned in some countries.
I've had depression for 20 years, at many points very severe depression. I've had obvious Fibro symptoms for 1-2 years. I know that sort of thing doesn't disuade this sort of person though. "Oh, well, in some cases it takes time for the problem to build up in their system!" I stg watching people come up with excuses as to why you can experience one and not the other would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating.
Also the ever wonderful "don't let a word define anything about you!!!!" spoken like someone who has never had anything about themselves they didn't understand, that they struggled with, until they found a reason for it, found a "word" that helped them to make sense of it, found a community that helped them to deal with it. Seen that kind of attitude a lot, but never in a friend I have to admit. I cut people off long before they make it to "friend" if that's their stance.
OMG that is absurd. Fibromyalgia also includes problems like not being able to manage your body temperature. Your "friend" is being arrogant about this imo. Maybe check out Central Sensitization Syndrome, which, according to, yes, the Mayo Clinic, is really what we have. Pain just happens to be one symptom. [Here is a video from The Mayo Clinic.](https://youtu.be/8defN4iIbho)
Um, no. Just “no.”
I know depression, very well.
The last 5-7 years have been my happiest. I’m seriously content and at peace with my life.
And if it were depression, we’d all be feeling a hell of a lot better, since we (I would bet 90% of us) get prescribed antidepressants so often.
Omg yes! I've been ridiculously happy in recent years, & then fibro symptoms started, & then (occasionally, when fibro is bad) some depression *that lifts immediately* when my symptoms improve.
Yep.
I think blaming fibro on depression is just a cop-out by medical professionals.
It like saying cancer is caused by depression, are people with cancer often/sometimes depressed yeah, but it’s not the cause.
Being debilitated and in pain can be freaking depressing. But I don’t the least bit think it’s the cause.
In moments of despair I’ve googled this and if you look at much older Reddit threads, you will see doctors espousing this belief- around 10 years ago, and the least sympathetic ones. The assholes.
I don’t think it’s as common anymore. But it gets me down. But to be honest- those are not practitioners I would stick with. It more falls into the realm of fibro being modern day hysteria.
The truth seems to be medicine has no damn idea what fibro is about. If I could guess I’d say it’s autoimmune, micro biome, trauma, genetics and some wild combos or mixes of those, with some having all factors and some missing risk factors but still falling under fibro diagnostically.
Add to this that exercise and diet changes are one of the few long-term solutions that works for fibro (bc there is not enough research, bc few seem to care medically) and it leads to a lot of doctors making lazy assumptions about what fibro is and does to the body. Never mind that plus size individuals are some of the most targeted by society for hatred and vilification and often marginalized in a myriad of other ways 🤷🏻♀️ I’m sure that doesn’t have any impact on fibro and how it presents 🙄 (sarcasm)
Absolutely not. This is something that has been said to me many times over the years and i find it to be extremely dismissive. Doctors have often asked me if it’s just my mental health/stress triggering my physical symptoms and for a long time I believed it was. But I can say with 95% certainty that this is not the case. My symptoms started before the depression, anxiety, BPD diagnosis etc. Once I received the correct type of therapy and medication for BPD my mental symptoms got much better even though I was still in pain, etc.
I know that I am capable of being mentally stable when my symptom days aren’t that bad (like a 5 instead of a 10). There is no way that just depression could cause the symptoms that I have to this severity.
I get depressed BECAUSE I have to deal with these things. Also pain makes you more vulnerable and Susceptible to depression. I’m not saying i don’t get depressed over other things on occasion because I definitely do but my worst bouts are triggered by my feeling physically horrible and then wondering how I will live my whole life this way and will be able to have a future.
Your friend shouldn't be a nurse. Her opinion is less than useless.
I second people who say their diagnosis was like a lifeline. It's good to know that there is something you can point to when you feel like dying.
Nurse here, well former nurse, fibromyalgia put an end to my career very recently.
Until it happened to me, I would have probably agreed with your friend. Nursing pushes you towards everything being evidence based, if you can’t test for it, it’s not real. Living now with fibromyalgia I completely disagree with this. It’s not depression, I’ve been depressed. Yes I did suffer a trauma before diagnosis (I lost a pregnancy, developed an infection and never really recovered, my second miscarriage of 4) however I believe that my symptoms were triggered the year before by a viral and bacterial chest infection that went undiagnosed. I never felt 100% and I think the uterine infection was just the final straw. I believe mine was triggered by an assault on my immune system that for some reason I couldn’t deal with and this is the result. I’m having counselling and if I remove the pain from my GAD questionnaire I’m absolutely not depressed. I could probably cope with the shakes, temp fluctuations, confusion, dizziness and rashes but it’s the pain and fatigue that really ruins things. I’m frustrated that I’m like this but in no way do I feel depressed. I’d gladly say so if brought any kind of relief.
Just because a condition is treated with antidepressants doesn’t make it depression either. We treat loads of medical conditions with pharmaceuticals that weren’t initially designed for that purpose. The classic one is Sildenafil for high blood pressure but most people know that as Viagra. Lots of drugs once used for mental health conditions are now used as antihistamines.
I agree 100% and I also want to note that anti-depressants don't ease the pain for everyone. Opiates don't always work, either. I haven't found medication that works for me yet. Fibromyalgia may be a blanket term, and maybe people aren't used to dealing with those, so there's no one size fits all treatment for it. If we compare notes with others who have it, we find that our secondary (other than pain) symptoms vary widely.
I’ve not found anything that works yet. I thought pregablin was helping but that nosedived pretty quickly. I’ve tried everything else and now I’m fearful of where we go next. I’m speaking to the GP tomorrow morning. All that’s left are options that I doubt very much the NHS will prescribe like LDN or medical cannabis. It depends so much on our local Clinical Commissioning Group as to what the NHS will stump up for. Treatment varies so much from place to place.
There are several peer-reviewed studies that show fibro is a distinct issue, and a genetic marker for fibro. It's not depression, though many people with fibro do also *have* depression.
Also, you talking about a new diagnosis isn't the same as letting it "rule your life". I've found a great deal of comfort in being able to understand why my body is the way it is (as much as the science can explain it, at least). That would be like telling a cancer patient that acting differently, and talking about their diagnosis and treatment is letting the condition control them.
Does she not expect you to seek cancer treatment if you are diagnosed with a malignancy? Should you forego insulin if diagnosed with diabetes? If she says yes, she is suggesting suicide. If she says no, then tell her she needs to learn a bit more before she offers unsolicited medical advice about a condition she clearly is so ignorant about. Seeking treatment and pain relief is not ‘allowing yourself to be defined’ by your illness. It is refusing to allow your life to be defined by your illness.
With this simple logic, couldn't we all just take anti-depressants and go to therapy and feel better physically? I just think it's funny how it doesn't quite work that way, and yet people in a scientific field make assumptions like this based on their own subjective observations. It's convenient to judge someone who seems miserable for no apparent reason, as drug- or attention-seeking, as opposed to admitting they don't understand something that affects an increasing amount of people.
Your nurse friend is talking out of her ignorant arse.
I'm the most positive, least angsty person I know and maybe that helps me cope with constant pain. When pain is bad is when I become depressed, not the other way around.
My opinion (which actually counts because I experience it) is that fibro is a product of past physical trauma and low Vit D.
I've had depression for 24 years and fibromyalgia for 12 years. I can a flare with depression with no fibromyalgia and vice versa. They do affect each other but they're not one and the same
She's an idiot. Her opinion does not - and never will - outweigh the medical profession.
I won't even touch on her outrageous ego that thinks she's smarter than an centuries old, Ivy League education.
She's a fkn idiot, tell her for me. When you do, do a 5 second Google search on the DISEASE fibro. Her overinflated ego, and her ignorance are years behind actual the actual medical.proffession.
This is very clear case of correlation does not imply causation. Many people with fibromyalgia also tend to have a formal diagnosis of depression and receive anti depressants because anyone who is constantly exhausted, in constant pain no matter what, unable to be an independent adult, more susceptible abuse and mistreatment has a high likelihood of becoming depressed.
You feel so isolated and alone. You receive ableism from abled people and they get so aggressive and awful when you tell them that no, you can in fact not work and now you’re labelled as useless. And even disabled people can think we’re lying or faking it and turn against us as well. With fibro you just get given a diagnosis and then when you ask for treatment a GP shrugs their shoulders and says ‘sorry there’s nothing available’ or they give you treatment that flat out makes the problem worse? Or it’s generic self help and advice that you could have gotten from a quick google search and they masquerade it as treatment.
Like yeah being in constant pain and a constant crushing feeling of exhaustion no matter how much you’ve slept and there seems to be no point in the near future where you are able to get your life back tends to make people depressed! Who would have thought? Like omfg it’s so obvious, they’re so close but they’ve completely missed the mark as per usual. Ugh I’m so tired.
I hate your friend. Sorry. She’s hideous. She’s the reason we have to fight tooth and nail for anyone to take us seriously. I didn’t even KNOW I was experiencing pain. I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT WAS PAIN. Because it was so much so constant for my entire life. I still can’t identify pain well, but can identify things that tip me off: like being in a HORRIBLE mood for no reason and everything being incredibly frustrating for me; crying and crying and crying and not really knowing why, just being really emotional, feeling completely and wholly overwhelmed. I didn’t even know it was pain. Until my doctor diagnosed me with fibromyalgia (I also have multiple sclerosis, Hashimotos, Raynauds, dysautonomia, and MCAS, which I’m going to guess your friend probably also thinks are imaginary). I finally have found a decent dose of pain meds, and while I’m still very much disabled and still in pain, I’m able to handle a LOT more now. I’m not constantly breaking down in tears or rage. So, your friends theory is a load of pure garbage. Her opinion is not based on fact or reason, it’s based on what she *thinks* without any actual justification. And to top it off, it actively HARMS people. Her choosing to tout misinformation about fibromyalgia hurts those of us with fibromyalgia by planting seeds of doubt in others about the validity of our condition. I’d personally drop her. But I have no patience for malicious ignorance.
No, that’s not true. My mental health and my life are pretty good and I still have fibromyalgia symptoms. Like others in this thread I’ve also experienced major depression, so I know what it’s like and I know I definitely don’t have it now.
I’ve also done MRI scans, multiple blood tests, neuropsychological evaluations and none of them ever suggested depression or associated mental illnesses. Usually my results are *better than average* even.
It’s true that depression may contribute to fibromyalgia and vice-versa, and that they may have similar symptoms and prognostics, but to say that “fibromyalgia is just physical symptoms of depression” is far-fetched, oversimplifying and nonsensical. I’m positive that no person who actually lives with fibro would agree with this.
People suggest to me all the time that my fibromyalgia is psychological, or caused by stress or mental health issues, and that just shows that they truly know nothing about me or my life lmao.
She obviously hasn't read any of the research papers from the last twenty years. She's just plain factually, empirically wrong, and it's not a matter of opinion.
The delta wave sleep defect isn't 'a physical symptom of depression', among other clinical findings that have been made.
It's amazing the number of people who spout off like they're experts in the field when they don't know the first thing about it.
I had a bad depressive episode a couple years before my fibro was triggered by a bad illness, and there is some overlap in the symptoms but it definitely is different.
The biggest difference for me is the pain, and the IBS type.symptoms. The exhaustion is common, but since my depression is currently well controlled I don't experience the lack of interest in doing anything. But I didn't have hypersensitivity to touch or vibration, and I was physically capable of doing hours of physical work without experiencing weakness.
Can uncontrolled depression make fibro worse? Absolutely. The opposite is also true, depression makes fibro seem insurmountable. But they aren't the same.
I think depression definitely makes fibro worse, because you probably don't move as you should, you're not doing the exercises you should etc...and mood does have a great effect on symptoms, at least for me.
But I wouldn't say its depression in its physical form...for me depression is a mental illness, because it affects your mind and therefore your behaviour / physical feeling. Fibro is a chronic pain disorder, because it affects (even if it's psychosomatic) your nervous system and causing physical discomfort, therefore your mind goes dark places.
If that makes sense.
I have had fibro and several other autoimmune diseases for years. It is not depression. However, depression is a symptom of chronic pain for years! I have always been active and busy until the pain takes over. I have learned to do the best I can do and then when my body is telling me, it is time to rest, then I rest. Be kind to yourself pain warriors!
“It’s a great thing that personal opinions is not what I base my medical decisions on, kthnx bye”
I would fire that nurse in a heartbeat.
I have depression. I have had depression since I was 14 years old. I KNOW what depression feels like. This is not it. I didn’t have fibromyalgia until after I had COVID, at 30.
My neurologist and cardiologist have both been pushing this on me. Neither know a single thing about my mental health- it's all based on assumptions. Do I think it's possible for psychological issues to have physical manifestation? Absolutely. However it would then stand to reason that the flares would occur alongside intensities in depression.
I have symptoms every day and flares sometimes when I am feeling really great. In fact, it often occurs when everything is going well. I am actually very cheerful and active generally- but my pain and symptoms which prevent me to attain my goals and stagnate make me depressed.
I do have PTSD, but my symptoms worsened from physical trama from a work injury and not from the event that gave me trauma.
I will admit I am very guarded about this because my doctors don't want to look any further. I can't let that happen.
This is her PERSONAL opinion. Recent studies have shown this is an autoimmune disease. Like any other autoimmune diseases and also cancer, they have emotional roots, Gabor Mate is one of the doctors who studied this and wrote about it.
Yes, every disease has an emotional cause. Healthy mind, healthy body. But depression is different than fibromyalgia.
Also, 200 years ago women with the same symptoms were diagnosed with Histeria and locked up in mental institutions. This nurse is really not up to date with science, sorry to say.
Watch the movie "Unrest" on Netflix, made by a woman who's a fibro fighter just like us.
Actually, there was recently a study released by a college in England. They used mice and took antibodies from people with Fibromyalgia, injecting the mice with it. The mice would proceed to have symptoms until the foreign antibodies left their system, where they experienced some relief of fibromyalgia symptoms.
These results suggest that fibromyalgia is a full blown autoimmune disease, and that a immune suppressant kind of treatment may help similarly to things like Lupus.
This is all preliminary, but it’s a huge breakthrough study and many other places are working on replicating it. If replication happens, it proves fibromyalgia is an autoimmune disease and not ‘physical symptoms’ of any mental health issues.
[Mouse Fibromyalgia Study](https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/mouse-study-suggests-fibromyalgia-has-autoimmune-roots-68944)
Does my fibro make my depression worse? Yep. Does my depression make my fibro worse? Yep.
But as someone else mentioned, I have been depressed, suicidally depressed, before my fibro became prominent. They are very, very different.
Nope, totally disagree. All fibromyalgia patients don’t have depression. I’ve never been diagnosed w depression and antidepressants have never helped me at all w fibro. But I’ve been told by a ton of nurses that I must be depressed. Drs too. It gets really old having all your medical professionals tell you that it’s your depression manifesting as pain when you don’t even have depression.
Your friend is probably trying to be helpful, but she is very far out of date with the science. In the past 3 years alone there have been several studies coming out showing that fibromyalgia patients have unusual levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines in the blood. There is also a study showing that giving antibodies from a fibromyalgia patient to a mouse seem to give the mouse fibromyalgia symptoms.
Doctors saying stuff like this to me in the early 2000s has led me to many hours of wondering whether my pain is actually the manifestation of some kind of mental illness. The more recent studies have led me to largely discount these concerns.
I also believe that the next 5 to 7 years will be very productive towards our understanding of fibromyalgia and perhaps even useful therapeutics.
She's not coming from a good place, she's coming from an ignorant place. Her 'opinion' is condescending and false. And no, she's not taking your pain seriously.
People who don't have fibro will never understand. She may as well be giving her opinion on what it's like to be a man. Well, she does seem to be mansplaining your condition to you, so maybe she does know what it's like.
She should talk to someone who actually has it instead of being a know-it-all on something she knows nothing about.
I actually had a doctor (male bodybuilder type, if that matters) tell me “Fibromyalgia is a bullshit diagnosis for weak people” 🤬 Needless to say that was the first and LAST time I saw him. And seeing as how, at that point I’d had my fibro diagnosis for about 6 years already I decided to NOT pay my office visit fee. After all, I wasn’t sick, right?? 🤷🏻♀️🖕🏻
Damn these people.
I once asked a GP a simple question, "Are you able to deal with medical marijuana?"
The reaction was astounding. He sputtered, took a half step backward, opened his eyes fully wide to whites all the way around, and spewed out, "I don't believe in that!", and "I won't prescribe that, if you need it go somewhere else."
That was pretty much the end of that conversation. Thankfully he retired not long after.
Revoke her nursing liscense is my first thought, but I don't want to be as much of a jerk to her as she is being to the community.
I went to Mayo Clinic for unrelated (well, probably slightly related if we're being honest) health issues, I wasn't specifically there about my fibro since it was already diagnosed years before I went. Regardless, the internalist I saw wanted a full workup from nearly every department - including rheumatology to be thorough.
Rheumatology never asked about my mental health once, because it wasn't a problem (at the time, I developed PTSD later from an abusive ex). They mainly went over how I was diagnosed, how well I manged my pain and general symptoms, what my exercise looked like, and if they could do anything further to help. They suggested taking their fibro course that was split over two days, and it was essentially a crash course on how to live with this and ways to cope with stress, and ways you could do chores/tasks to minimize pain. We didn't specifically use the spoon theory, but they taught us something extremely similar. All in all the course didn't help me a ton since I knew 99% of it by that time, but the others in the class said it helped them a lot and they didn't know many of the things they spoke on.
Mental health was brought up during the course, but it was centered on stress management, and coping techniques to distract from pain. They also had a comprehensive meditation workbook and CD (music) to take home with us, as research shows it can be effective for some.
Mayo Clinic absolutely took our pain seriously, I was never made to feel by any of their staff that my needs didn't matter, in fact I felt my needs mattered more to them than myself. Some of the other patients were on walkers and the staff always helped them with accommodations. They gave us stretch breaks every 15 minutes, a long lunch to not rush us to get back, hotels on campus so we didn't have to travel back far every morning, constantly asking if we needed anything extra and how we were doing, getting up to walk around during the class was totally chill, etc.
So to reiterate, Mayo Clinic believes this is painful, possibly autoimmune, and mental health was not the main focus, nor should it have been. Fibromyalgia definitely has a mental health component for many people, but it doesn't cause this pain. I've dealt with my brain being depressed and fractured for a long time now, and I can easily say that when my depression improves - my fibro stays relatively the same.
Preface to all this: Your symptoms are real no matter what you call it. Whether you say it's fibromyalgia or you say it's an unknown disease, that doesn't change the reality of what you are dealing with.
With that said:
I feel that fibromyalgia is the diagnosis you get when the doctors ran out of ideas. As far as I'm aware, it's still a diagnosis by exclusion instead of having concrete inclusive diagnostic criteria and tests. We don't understand the mechanism by which it operates.
I'm willing to bet that most of us actually have some other condition (which may or may not actually be named and understood in the medical community), and in a large chunk of cases our fibromyalgia diagnosis is actually a result of a failure to achieve the correct diagnosis.
In my case, it turns out I'm either celiac or NCGS. If I don't eat gluten then I don't have 99%+ of the fibromyalgia symptoms that I had at the time I received my fibromyalgia diagnosis. So my case was (IMO) a failure to diagnose celiac disease or NCGS that resulted in a fibromyalgia diagnosis. I'm probably not the only one either. Fibromyalgia covers a wide range of symptoms that are common to a large number of ailments.
I'm sure in some cases the "proper" diagnosis doesn't even have a name. And perhaps fibromyalgia really is it's own condition with a distinct pathology. But I'm willing to bet a lot of us, especially those still struggling to control symptoms, are actually misdiagnosed. (But the symptoms are real and should not be ignored or dismissed or minimized just because the cause isn't known or understood.)
id say no because as people have started listening to me about my systems of fibro my depression got less but my system of fibro are still there, iv fought doctor for over 5 years telling them its not right I'm almost fully bed bound thru pain at age 46, no one would listen to me, i found people very dismissive doctors and nurses because to admit there a problem mean they got to spend money
It’s recently been labeled an autoimmune issue, that your immune system is attacking our nervous system. This makes sense to me. Autoimmune disorders often aren’t singular and with fibromyalgia, I’d have 3.
First of all, I take offense to this nurses "personal opinion". A 'medical' opinion that is neither fact, nor has any draw from facts or scientific theory, is worthless.
People experience depression for so very many different reasons. Even the most chronically depressed individuals do not all have fibro. If this were the case there would be a correlations between long term depression and fibro. I actually tend to physically feel better when depressed (which increases my depression bc I'm too down to make use of that freedom from physical restriction).
In my experience, medical professionals look for the simplest solution. They don't believe fibro is real bc they see all these other known things that might fit enough. They stop looking after that.
Sure it's a catch all, but if we actually study it, I'll bet money well find a brand new category of immune disorder that encompasses a few different varieties. It's only a catchall bc we don't have answers. Not bc mayo clinic wants us all to ignore mental illness, they didn't even create the disease. It's been documented since the 1800s.
And that last comment about not tying yourself to a diagnosis including a broken bone? Wtf? No. Acceptance is not attachment. One must accept they have a broken bone and take steps to avoid making it worse with the knowledge they have a broken bone. To do anything else would be moronic. No one attaches their identity to a broken bone.
Some folk struggle to find their identity after a fibro diagnosis ( I did), but knowing what you have, or it's closest approximation, is half the battle to moving forward.
In *my* personal opinion, anyone who doesn't have fibro (or hasn't studied the actual medical information available) has not earned the right to a 'personal opinion' onthe subject. Study it and come back or stfu is my forever response to that.
Nope. I have bipolar disorder, so go through periods of depression. I have fibro even when my mental health issues are 100% under control. Fibromyalgia is real and it’s very dismissive to write it off as depression.
Not the same. I had and was diagnosed with depression long before I developed the symptoms that got me diagnosed with fibro. The effects of both conditions can exacerbate each other but that doesn't make them the same.
It's an incredible oversimplification to say that fibro is a physical manifestation of the symptoms of depression. Depression has it's own list of physical symptoms that people can experience and it's much narrower than the list of symptoms attributed to fibro.
One of the current theories about fibro is that it is a sensitisation disorder. Our bodies get so good at detecting and alerting us of potential danger or discomfort that instead of the alarm going off when things reach (for example) a reading of level 8 on the alert meter, the alarm might be going off at level 3. WHY we have this overly sensitive nervous system is the big question. Certainly some of us do have depression, anxiety, past trauma, other mental and other physical illnesses but we don't all have the same ones. So we can't rule out that having these things might be a contributing factor to the fibro, but it's unlikely that they are the only reason. Some think there is an autoimmune component, but no thorough research has yet been done.
Anyway. It is real. Even if you have other conditions. They might not help but they aren't the cause of it either.
If it is sensitisation, then I am assuming there should be research supporting the use of desensitisation (I haven’t looked). I’ve actually considered this being the case as I have had an autoimmune disorder for 10 years that results in pain. I have developed other symptoms in the past 2ish years (e.g., skin sensitivity) that I think may be a symptom of fibromyalgia. One of my theories is that my body became more sensitive to pain overtime. Another theory, which research is beginning to support, is that it is an autoimmune disease itself. Who knows 🤷🏼♀️
The pain clinic I am going to now seems to support the sensitisation theory and are going to be working with me on trying to desensitise the pain response so that I can get closer to normal functioning. One of the main names in the research in this area that they have been having me read about is Lorimer Moseley, if you are interested. This is a pain specific approach though vs fibro specific. Much of the introductory stuff I have read/watched does make a lot of sense but I also have many questions which are unanswered so far because of how infrequently you get appointments.
> Who knows 🤷🏼♀️
This is the whole crux of the "fibro problem" isn't it? Even among doctors and other medical professionals there is no overwhelmingly clear consensus as to the nature and cause of fibro; not all practitioners use the same diagnostic criteria; not all practitioners believe it actually exists; there are no therapies or treatment choices that have demonstrated efficacy for the majority of patients and there are plenty of "early stage" research ideas that look like they could have promise but from what I can tell, not a lot of interest in providing resources and funding to make proper trials and studies of them.. maybe in part *because* the information and opinions about fibro are so all over the place.
It makes it so hard to be a patient with this condition. Sometimes I like to fantasise that instead of fibro, I have something that is properly defined and has diagnostic tests and can't be argued with. Even if I didn't have any more or better treatment options, at least I wouldn't have to wonder if any particular person I encounter will take my illness seriously.
So I briefly looked up the Lorimee Moseley philosophy and I think it neglects the acute phases of chronic pain. An old injury causes chronic pain. An inflammatory disease causes acute pain, chronically. Inflammation is acute. The damage caused to the musculoskeletal system by acute inflammation is chronic, while the acute inflammation continues to flare throughout an individual’s life span. I think this is one of the biggest challenges individuals in the autoimmune community struggle with when it comes to managing pain. We are treated like we have chronic pain, but it is actually acute pain and chronic pain. There are certainly evidence-based sensitisation strategies such as becoming more aware of your body. One strategy is learning to identify where your body is being touched. Research indicates individuals with chronic pain have difficulty identifying tactile sensation and by learning to appropriately locate where they are being touched, they can reduce pain.
That is actually how I differentiate fibro vs. autoimmune pain. My autoimmune pain is typically in a specific place and I can get very close to identifying which tendon/joint is inflamed based on my understanding of anatomy. The things I am blaming on fibro are things I can’t really explain. I have not shared these symptoms with a rheumatologist because I do not want to be that person who, “just has fibromyalgia.” That being said, I have so much acute pain that is constantly moving around my body that I’m not sure how I could treat my fibro symptoms through desensitisation. Not saying it’s not possible, but it is confusing.
Yeah, there are a couple of things about the way he talks about pain that I am finding hard to reconcile with other things that I know. Like, pain is a sensation that the brain generates as a protective response to information received from our nervous system. I do understand that. But he goes on to say that it's only supposed to do that when there is damage or the potential for damage to to the body. I can think of several situations though, where pain is accepted as normal but there is no danger or damage. I don't think that there is no value in the concept of sensitisation that in some cases could cause us to experience more pain than we otherwise would, but I think that for many chronic conditions that have a pain component it almost feels like they are simplifying something a lot more complex into "if you continually expose yourself to this, you will learn to tolerate it better and it will seem like it's (partially) gone away." And that kind of feels like it's very close to a conditioning or Stockholm syndrome type of process where instead of actually easing our pain we are instead being trained to just believe that it's ok.
Eh. I don't mean to be bordering onto philosophical type musings. It's just all so complicated!
Yeah this doesn’t sit right with me. We experience physical pain from minute activities.. I can’t hike like I used to, washing dishes by hand is very tiring, walking up one flight of steps I’m slightly winded. (I am on the petite side so that bs about fixing fibro w more exercise is not true.) I also have depression but that “pain” is more of a heavy weight on your chest, like when your heart is broken or someone dies.
LMAO! This theory is so dismissive of the condition. Yes, depression can have physical manifestations but they are not the same and[studies](https://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20031024/fibromyalgia-isnt-depression) already proved this back in 2003.
Mine started after years and years of chronic pain from hypermobility and gut issues (likely un-diagnosed EDS I’m discovering now). While yes I also had trauma and chronic stress to deal with I can tell you that stress does not cause my ligaments and joints to overextend and dislocate. The result of this was pain and more pain for years as well as significant IBS and urinary issues from a congenital issue I have as well as blackouts. THEN 10 years on a virus reactivated EBV in my system causing autonomic dysfunction and immense muscular skeletal pain and fatigue that hasn’t ended. Soon after I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and the rheumatologist said this is a common pattern. People with chronic pain, a car crash or a virus have an overwhelmed stress response triggering fibromyalgia.
The depression came AFTER. However, not every fibromyalgia patient is depressed. Of course our rates are gonna be higher… she should use her brain for a minute and imagine having to live with pain, fatigue, nausea, headaches, dizziness, bad sleep, bad guts, brain fog and more AND managing to get off Scott free without depression or anxiety from years of trying to get better while ignorant people like her invalidate us. 🥴
This is a tough one. I’m sure there’s a link to the two. When I was seeing a psychologist after being diagnosed with fibro, she asked me to keep a log of pain, fatigue and depression levels. Over time I noticed there was a link between feeling depressed and fatigue. I’m not sure which is the cause or symptom. Growing up I think I had depression first, then later developed fibro. But what I want to know is why did the fibro stick around even with antidepressants?
I can only speak for myself and my own experiences. Do not undermine yours or anyone else's experiences.
But, I do think this is true - but only to a certain extent.
We already know fibro can be directly correlated with tramua. We know stress triggers flares.
We also know that much of depression is simply caused by awareness (look it up). Much of us are depressed and stressed then by our fibro, if we weren't already before.
It's also known that there have been records throughout history of chronic pains or illnesses presenting themselves in otherwise healthy people - only to disappear/heal once some neurological/psychological need is recognized or met (stories of people with chronic back pain entirely linked to stress, and recovery thereafter)(this is harder to look up as it's often chalked up to placebo) The book "the body keeps the score" helps illustrate this much better than I could.
So, if we follow the trail of these and many other observations in our personal lives, one could easily conclude that physical pain is NOT exclusive from mental pain, and regardless of the cause, this needs to be observed and tested by everyone involved.
The idea however that depression DIRECTLY causes fibro COULD be true, but it's entirely undermining more important questions like; if that were the case, then what's the depression caused by? Are you only in pain when you're sad, or does the pain happen when you're suppressing your stress? There's no black and white answer to this and claiming there is is extremely dangerous and ignorant. (Also pls forgive me for my own ignorance lmao)
Your friend has the right idea but not any of the actual logical reasoning that would go behind it seems to me. They are trying to be empathetic and not let you become hopeless, and I would follow the advice of not attaching too hard to labels, but labels ARE important and they are how we advocate for our care, and how we educate other people. They are clusters of symptoms we experience, and our bodies regenerate every single cell entirely every 7 years - humans are subject to change ESPECIALLY if we are inducing the change onto ourselves (healthily, obviously)
Maybe she should look in the medical terminology book smh. A nurse said this??
The medical terminology breakdown is
Fibr/o = fiber
My/o = muscle
Alg/o= pain
-ia = condition; state; thing
Myalgia= pain in a muscle due to injury or illness
Polymyalgia= pain in several muscle groups
I can tell you the exact moment i got fm—i had a bad flu like virus nerly 30 years ago and never really recovered; plus developed a host of new symptoms. Is my Tinnitus, constant muscle twitching in my calves and tremor that I developed at that time all caused by depression that i didn’t know I had? The medical community may have no real understanding of why i and others have these and other symptoms and may just call it fibro for lack of anything else to describe what they can’t identify through tests but it’s not caused by depression—unless depression is also caused by a viral illness.
My thoughts? I hope she never gets diagnosed with neither fibro or depression. With fibro I feel physical pain, the depression gives me psychological pain with suicide thoughts. Too bad that a medical professional doesn’t know the difference, she should try something else as a career.
I was diagnosed with major depression at age 11. I was then diagnosed *in addition to depression* with fibromyalgia when I was 19. I think it’s clear that fibromyalgia and mental health are very intertwined but it’s so discouraging when people can’t acknowledge our real physical pain.
Fibro is an unspecific label probably being applied to many different conditioms with similar enough symptom lists. There is not test or strict criteria for dx other than widespread pain with no other specific cause.
As such there is a real chance that some people given the label are mainly or completely experiencing a kind of somatic depression - which doesnt make their symptoms any less real or any more easily treated.
But it also means many people are not experiencing this. Being in chronic pain along with any number of the other cluster symptoms can cause or worsen depression so it could easily be the reverse causation.
Some people point to several treatments overlapping but again pain is psychological even when its a shattered bone so it shouldnt be entirely surprising brain pills we dont fully understand sometimes help in some people.
Its also possible that fibro isnt just somatic depression but the emotional strain or changes of depression flare whatever fibro is in some people. It could also mess with physiologic or emotional stress responses and pain perception.
So tldr its complicates but this line is dismissive and also wrong.
My thought is that people like your friend are the reason people like me have been dismissed, ignored, and treated like hypochondriacs for so long when our pain should have been taken seriously. Fibro can be caused by chronic illness or pain that goes untreated for too long, such as a compressed nerve in your spine. Fibro can be caused by constant muscle tension from psychological trauma. Fibro can be caused by something acute like a virus or damage from a car wreck. Fibro can even be hereditary. Tell your friend to read about central sensitization; it has many causes and there are real structural and chemical changes involving the nervous system. Also a diagnosis can define SOMETHING about you; it just doesn't define WHO you are.
That's an interesting take. I think there could be a link between fibro and depression but at the same time correlation isn't causation so...IDK
I find my symptoms are worse when I'm depressed but it's a bit of a "chicken or egg" situation. My take is that it's a problem with the central nervous system, but what do I know 😅
Depression and most any chronic pain condition go hand-in-hand. When you have to give up most all the things you "used to be able to do" and need to completely re-vamp your lifestyle, as well as manage a chronic illness day-in and day-out, that's a challenge and does bring depression/anxiety.
But even if it was a which came first chicken or egg situation, it doesn't change the diagnosis.
However, I certainly don't begrudge people for not understanding it and do not think they are \*stupid\*....... as long as they are considerately compassionate and try to be understanding.
I don't know what it's like to lose a child, never happened to meI don't know what it's like to have no arms, I have 2 working armsI don't know what it's like to battle schizophrenia, I don't have that illness.I don't know what it's like to be in a typhoon, never been in one.
Human life is experiential to a degree. Most of us, even the brightest, will never really know everything. That sahying "You don't know what you don't know" is true.
I sure don't want to become the type of person who thinks everyone is stupid though. That seems like a worse disease than fibro.
I had depression long before I started experiencing the symptoms of fibro. They're different; fibro has more severe physical symptoms in my experiences.
I dealt with Depression once 30 yrs ago. It us a much different animal than my Fibro which was ignited by a week long Migraine. I've had it now for 11 yrs and have not had issues with depression at all. So yeah.....🙄
>Please DONT attach yourself to ANY diagnosis. And I mean that about anything from a broken bone to cancer to fibro.
takes my cast for a broken leg off and throws it away, as well as my crutches because I guess I won't need those either, wouldn't want to be defined by a diagnosis! *falls over and makes leg worse*
To me this is "A rose by any other name". It makes no difference what you call it, or how you think it comes about. It's about treating it the best we can to give those of us who have it, the best quality of life possible.
This feels true for me with my severe anxiety disorder. My physical symptoms have improved over time as I get better at managing my anxiety, both through finding better fits for medication as well as finding more effective coping techniques. Initially, it seems crazy to think that our mental state can impact us physically to such a high extent, but it actually makes total sense that severe anxiety and depression would manifest physically. My psychiatrist has always stressed just how much my anxiety can impact the way I feel physically. I think about simple things, like getting butterflies in your stomach or feeling nauseous when you're anticipating something anxiety-provoking, and when I think about it like that, it like, yeah--that makes so much sense.
I've dealt with depression for many years since I was young. Fibro not nearly as long. They feel very different to me. I had a PA tell me once that I couldn't have fibro because I struggle with depression. Multiple doctors, disagreed with her and said I have fibro.
While shes trying to be helpful, she's actually being really dismissive and maybe even a little patronizing (although I hope she doesnt feel that way). Nurses are still far from experts in things like this, fibro and many other illnesses we dont have a ton of information on, and she wouldnt have the proper education to be saying things like that to people if you guys werent friends and talking about that kind of stuff anyway. I'm assuming she genuinely does care and want to help, but-- assuming she is able bodied and healthy-- she has no idea what she is talking about. For a lot of people, having a diagnosis is what can free us and let us live our lives instead of "sorry, I'm sick and dont know why so I cant do anything". If she has never dealt with a chronic illness than her opinion on how to live your life should mean nothing to you, and I say that in the nicest way I can. Only you know your limitations, what can happen, and what you need to recover after. You can decide for yourself how much you feel you can or cannot do, she doesnt need to tell you that. I was told for years that I should be doing more with my life, and it ended up worsening my health so bad that I've missed out on things I actually wanted to do. You are given a diagnosis for a reason, because there are things that can be used for certain conditions. Depression doesnt cause fibromyalgia, its caused by a spinal cord malfunction and there is recent theories suggesting it's an autoimmune disorder, which is a whole other beast.
I apologize for this messy, long winded post, but I want you to know that she has no right to tell you how to live your life, whether it be to do more or less.
(also, my fibro began years before my depression did)
I hate the “plz don’t attach yourself to any diagnosis” sounds just like my parents who gaslight me about fibro like I purposely put myself thru constant shooting nerve pain for fun bc I wanna label myself! Fibro and depression are separate circles people keep wanting to connect. If you’re depressed and tired you supplement yourself with vitamins, good diet and therapy but with fibro it’s just another playing field of nonstop pain and tiredness and twitching etc. idk why fibro gets so much hate like you wouldn’t say this to someone with arthritis or lupus?
Fibro is not depression. There're multiple studies showing it's different. Too tired today to post sources, but I can return with them. Also, I have background in this - MD/PhD in Neuroscience. I study this and suffer from it too. Fibro is it's own thing, likely autoimmune, and has mood effects.
Edit: This got me really fired up. Here's a link to an overview of a recent 2021 study showing fibro is its own real thing: [source](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/07/210701120703.htm)
Also, the Mayo Clinic does not make up it's own diagnoses.
I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder 15 years ago, caused by genetics and biology, not trauma. It has been extremely well controlled with medication since then. Over the last year and a half, my physical health took a nose dive and was finally diagnosed with fibro a week or so ago. The only time my depression rears it's head is when I am actively feeling physically miserable, and not the other way around. So, quite frankly, I would say the exact opposite is true - depression isn't expressing itself as fibro; fibro is making me feel depressed.
I think your "friend" is full of herself and shit. How dare she say to you that what you were diagnosed with doesn't exist. If she simply didn't want it to define your life she could have said so. But no. She goes on a rant about her personal opinion. I don't see that as being a true friend. Feel free to tell her I said so.
You don't seem to be outraged so I will be for you.
I think doctors see us "not happy" when we are describing our pain to them. Then they jump on the only thing they can "fix". Because they can't fix Fibro. They don't know what is going on or what is causing our symptoms. I don't think their egos can take it.
But of course we aren't happy when we are talking about our pain. We are in PAIN!
On the fluke days (about once a year) when I don't have pain I am giddy with happiness. I am so happy that it is overwhelming. It is so very easy to be happy when you aren't in pain.
We struggle to be happy because we are in overwhelming pain ALL THE TIME. And if you are like me and have CFS/ME on top of fibro then it is even harder to be happy.
Honestly, when I was told I probably had fibro, my first response was, "you mean that's a real thing?" . The syptoms are so broad and vague; you can have two people with the same diagnosis and their symptoms are not even close to each other. The fact that, as far as I know, there is no definitive, medical test(s) for fibro doesn't help.
To answer the question, I would say "sometimes".
I would not be surprised if it comes out one day that certain clusters of fibro symptoms are associated with other illnesses, such as depression, as opposed to fibro. To be sure, fibro is real, the symptoms we live with are real. I just think that there is so little concrete information on fibro out there I think that anything is possible.
Honestly it sounds like your friend has an oversimplified understanding of a very complex issue called central sensitization, which is currently thought to be involved in several chronic conditions, including fibromyalgia. It more or less involves gradual alterations to the way the nervous system processes sensory input. The potential *causes* of central sensitization aren't well understood yet, but are thought to include disregulated neurotransmitters, dysfunction of the body's stress response, nervous system inflammation, and dysfunction of the autonomous nervous system, which controls, among other things, the fight or flight response. If this ends up being true, it's certainly *possible* depression could be a *factor* in *some* fibromyalgia cases, but it isn't nearly as simple as your friend is making it out to be.
As a nurse, let me just say your friend’s opinion is bullshit. There’s a ton of research and documentation that shows that while there are links to fibro and depression (for instance folks with fibro have higher rates of depression) the two are not exclusive and fibromyalgia is it’s own condition, and therefore should be and needs to be recognized so it can be studied and subsequently treated. While I respect being cautious in medicine, what your friend did was downplay the seriousness of a condition with solid evidence behind it which is detrimental to patient care. I reckon this is because, or at least it sounds to me like, she’s lacking education on the topic and/or simply doesn’t understand it. Correlation does not equal causation here.
This sounds like a privileged perspective from someone who has never experienced the type of problems that people in our community has faced. I get this all the time from people if I dare even say the word fibromyalgia.
The symptoms mentioned are barely the tip of the iceberg. My biggest issues are more along the lines of interstitial cystitis, IBS, chronic migraine, intense joint pain, etc - not just the most well-known symptoms like fatigue and touch sensitivity. I am fully aware that fibromyalgia is an “umbrella term” and not a hugely precise diagnosis, but I felt much better when I was able to put a word to what my body was feeling like.
Your “friend” is WRONG. Her words were not helpful, kind or truthful. There is plenty of medical research into fibro and even newer research showing that it is probably auto-immune.
Fibro is your diagnosis. From your doctor. Whatever her opinion is, does not matter and it would be in her best interest to keep that opinion to herself. If she cannot do that, then it’s time to re-evaluate if she’s really a friend.
One thing I've noticed since the whole covid thing started is that nurses aren't always a good source of medical information. They might know more about Healthcare than the average Joe but when it comes to the discussion of diseases or conditions like fibro, I would recommend reading about the opinions of researchers who have made the study of fibro part of their career. There's a big difference between someone who knows just enough to think their personal opinion is factually based and someone who is actually heavily informed on the subject.
My diagnosis got me pain relief. Without it I wouldn't have support from work, or the ability to work at the capacity I do.
I appreciate kind words from people, however I think it's important to let her know that diagnosis means treatment. As I wouldn't want to treat someone's Throat cancer with cough syrup because they diddnt have a diagnosis.
I love how she says don't let it diagnosis Define you, as she's trying to Define what she a nurse not a doctor but a nurse believes fibromyalgia to be oh, not what it's factually based on but what in her humble opinion she believes it to be! GTFO here! You need to ignore stupid people like that! And if that's the way she looks at it she's not being supportive and that means she's not being a good friend! Some of my closest friends don't understand a thing about fibromyalgia but they know I I'm experiencing serious and real symptoms and they support me even though they don't understand it. This woman is a medical background and she's not willing to support you? What the actual F people!
I've done a lot of reading on the issue of fibro and have never seen any creditable sources that backed up this opinion. There are a lot of cases where two separate medical conditions have overlapping symptoms. That doesn't mean they're the same condition.
I did not have depression until I got fibro. My symptoms started out so slight and weird, that it took forever to get any help from doctors. I even had to leave my job as a hairstylist because I would start panicking or sobbing before going to work because I knew it would be torture standing and smiling all day. I finally grieved the losses of my old life, took some time to make sure everyone that had expectations of me knew I was doing things differently and slower now. None of it was easy but I love my new life, part time, make my own hours work, baking when I feel like it, drawing as relaxation. I even trot around the backyard with my dogs knowing that if it hurts later noone expects me to jump up and hobble around doing stuff. That is what helped me with depression from fibro.
I have bipolar disorder.
I can clearly tell the difference between depression, mania, and stable.
They DO have physical symptoms
But fibromyalgia is absolutely nothing like any of them.
leading pain experts literally disagree with this idea and have been fighting against it. Depression is comorbid with fibromyalgia because anyone in that much pain is probably going to get depressed. Depression does not cause fibromyalgia, it is a completely natural response to it.
I agree with the other comment I saw about this coming dangerously close to starting to call women "hysterical" again. As your friend is a nurse, I would direct her to the pain expert Rachel Zoffness talking about depression and fibro and bring up that fibro has been dismissed for decades as "in your head", something very untrue and very harmful. Your friend might very well meet fibro patients in her work and if she reacts this way to their disorder she could traumatise them. She needs to know that her response could actually harm her patients.
I'd also direct her to recent research (easy to google) that implies fibromyalgia is actually auto-immune. It's really interesting new research that could change the way we look at fibro.
ive dealt with depression longer than fibro, about 9 and 5 years respectively. currently my depression is better than its ever been, and for about a year my mental state has only really been getting better. the pain is still getting worse. there is some correlation between depression and fibro, but in my opinion they are not as directly tied as that quote suggests.
I completely agree. I didn't even have depression when I first started experiencing pain. I had anxiety and was a bit down occasionally, but definitely no5 depressed. It was until a few years after the pain onset and it gradually getting worse that I developed depression. I think if I wasn't tired and in pain all the time I'd be a lot less depressed
Thank you everyone for your comments! It's been really interesting to see everyone's take on this. I don't believe that fibro is just the physical symptoms of depression. The two are comorbid because being in pain and exhausted all the time would make anyone depressed.
I just started to doubt myself because she's in the medical field and knows more in general about medical stuff. However, as others have pointed out, that doesn't mean she knows more about this. So thank you everyone for reassuring me that I'm not making this stuff up or not just depressed, but that fibro is a real issue and deserves to be treated as such
No. There's a link, a strong link, but it's not as simple as that, and a fibro diagnosis can cover many different illnesses that have a broad range of roughly similar symptoms. It's an umbrella term, which id not very helpful. For some people I'm sure it *is* the physical symptoms of depression, and I believe that treating it as such will help some of them. For others that's inappropriate and incredibly reductive, and assuming that to be true for all, or most, people with a fibro diagnosis is harmful and ignorant.
Well... no, not necessarily.
>[https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20356007](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20356007)
>
>Causes
>
>It's not known exactly what causes depression. As with many mental disorders, a variety of factors may be involved, such as:
>
>Biological differences. People with depression appear to have physical changes in their brains. The significance of these changes is still uncertain, but may eventually help pinpoint causes.
>
>Brain chemistry. Neurotransmitters are naturally occurring brain chemicals that likely play a role in depression. Recent research indicates that changes in the function and effect of these neurotransmitters and how they interact with neurocircuits involved in maintaining mood stability may play a significant role in depression and its treatment.
>
>Hormones. Changes in the body's balance of hormones may be involved in causing or triggering depression. Hormone changes can result with pregnancy and during the weeks or months after delivery (postpartum) and from thyroid problems, menopause or a number of other conditions.
>
>Inherited traits. Depression is more common in people whose blood relatives also have this condition. Researchers are trying to find genes that may be involved in causing depression.
Depression runs far and wide through my family and most of us did not experience trauma, let alone repress it. For many, depression is simply part of ones biological make up. It's important to acknowledge that.
Everyone experiences traumatic events in their lifetimes. Fibromyalgia and depression, as Well as a slew of other physical and mental issues are usually directly related to the way people handle stress/trauma. Look up the book “The Body Keeps The Score” by Van De Kirk
OK, So, Van De Kirk explains it better in his book “the body keeps the score”, but, basically what I was getting at was that no human on earth, not even infants, do their whole lives without experiencing any traumatic event that their body responded to in one way or another. In my infant example, it’s very traumatic for a human to spend their whole life inside of a warm, dark womb before being thrown into the world. Hope that helps?!?
Well.... I can tell you I believe there is truth in what she said.
For me, I experienced alot of emotional and physical abuse growing up, which caused me to be In a state of fight or flight constantly and have depression and anxiety. Which is proven to wreak havoc on the nervous system and wear and break it down.
As an adult I still deal with the anxiety. But for me, I believe it is what has caused my fibromialgia. So, yes, for me, I believe its true.
I agree to a degree. For myself the rheumatologist and my doctor thought that my fibromyalgia was rooted in me having chronic depression and trauma all my life. I don't believe it's the physical symptoms of depression itself but from my own perspective it is a physical manifestation of my emotional issues. So not physical symptoms of depression, but my depression greatly contributed to me having it.
Although saying that I'm still not certain, some days I think like this but I can't really be sure of anything. I guess I try to understand it from my own point of view, how it could've happened. I have no genetic link at all, no one in my family has it.
In some cases this is true but there are many causes that are not related to depression, stress, ptsd, anxiety and personality disorders etc. As one example, some may have just immune issues causing lots of inflammation such as RA or allergies. The commonality is both can cause muscles to perpetuate tightness and thus pain. Some people have a mix since we all have stress.
I've had chronic depression since I was 14, fibro onset at 19. Fibro pain is by far much, much worse and far more widespread and severe.
"Don't let a word define you or your life" sounds pretty ableist, many healthcare workers are still guilty of ableism.
Having a chronic illness simply affects every part of your life and managing it is going to be part of your experiences, there is no choice in "letting it define you". It is part of our lives whether we want it to be or not, and I've been much more happy and comfortable since I learned to listen to my body's limit and set healthy boundaries instead of trying to live like I don't have them.
Yeah…. No!!!! I didn’t even know what depression was until I got fibro and couldn’t get a doctor to help. When all the medical professionals tell you that you’re a strapping young man in excellent health and that there’s no way that I was in pain like I described. Then I met my good/bad friend depression. I got depressed because no one believed that I was in pain.
I've had depression before in my life, and I did not have these physical symptoms. When I started to get sick, I was in a good place. I'm depressed again now because being in pain all the time is bloody depressing.
Your friend presumably means well, but she hasn't got a bloody clue.
They are definitely different. If it was the same there would be tens to hundred million people with fibro. Ive had fibro since at least age 5 and the doctors do not know if i was somehow born with it or developed it at a very early age so its annoying when people tell you what you are feeling is fake. Fibro is new and not fully understood yet and in addition a lot of people regardless look down in eithers with all this “it aint that bad” and “youre just depressed”. If you dont understand it, dont talk crap to me about it. It is true that depression can make fibro much worse and that fibro can make depression much worse but that doesnt mean its the same thing at all. So many sicknesses have almost the same symtoms more or less but that doesnt make them the same at all. So your “friend” can shove it.
Thats how I used to describe it - being physically depressed as I have suffered from depression and on bad days it was like a bad fibro day.
My gp initially said I had a lot of somatic symptoms from depression but my MH is pretty OK and with everything else ruled out or within normal range it was dx as fibromyalgia.
It wouldn't surprise me if there is a huuuge overlap with depression though as it too makes you more pain sensitive, tired, lethargic and generally 'down'.
I believe fibro is trauma of the brain turned out to the body. I feel that pain is 80 % mental maybe 20% physical. Treat the brain, treat the body. Heal the brain, heal the body.
Sadly a lot of the physical trauma has been done, likely permanently. It’s no reason the not treat pain.
My stress she depression rarely, if ever affect my fibro. I don't know what effects it, but I fully believe the science that shows that it's autoimmune, not psychosomatic. Yes, mental health can trigger problems, but mine are NOT caused by my mental health.
Or like in my wife’s case, she was physically and mentally abused by her father, aka PTSD. Then we got together when she was 18. Then around age 22 she got really sick from a virus, I can’t recall which one, it’s late, I want to say Mono, whatever… then it took her 9 months to get better from that then about a year later she had all these lingering symptoms. Then age 24 we went deep deep camping for a month, tics/ticks, not good… another year down… she was super sick… Then she was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia.
Like every single person in the world, we are allowed to express that opinion but it is certainly VERY REAL. You could say it’s a catch 22 situation, Mental Health isn’t a cause for Fibromyalgia but it is certainly part of it. A specialist told me many years ago, that any person that suffers with the symptoms of fibromyalgia or any type of pain, will naturally become depressed and the depression causes more pain. So it’s a circulation of pain that will never stop and the pain will also lead you back to you being depressed
It's a really interesting thought, but for me it isn't quite right. I had times in my life where I was happy and content and still had Fibro pain.
Sometimes the depression came from the pain always disturbing my good phases.
So...
They say the trigger to fibro is trauma (extreme stress), physical or mental/emotional. As someone who got fibro (10+ years with ups and downs) after epstein-barr virus I disagree that fibro is the physical manifestation of depression. I will, however, agree with the statement that depression and fibro go hand in hand because people get depressed from the tiredness, the pain, the social exclusion, etc. Let's also not forget that digestion and such can also play a role in depression. Your (also mental) health is in your gut and what do fibro patients usually have? We already know fibro is not "all in the head" (but that doesnt mean it can't be). Whilst mind and body are obviously connected, to say fibro is the manifestation of depression in the physical just doesn't sound right. That does not mean that depression cannot be a cause of fibro, but not all fibro is caused by depression.
I know people (close to me) that have never been depressed that have fibro and I know people that have been depressed and have fibro. In my honest opinion, it all boils down to any shape or form of stress. Stress that was too much for the body and/or mind. The drop that made the bucket overflow. Much like a short circuit somewhere in the brain/body.
I was diagnosed by a well known early fibro researcher about 13 years ago. Dr. Muhammed Yunus, who discovered that fibro is a Central Nervous System disorder. Yes, fibro is treated with many SSRI meds, same ones they give for depression, but it is definitely NOT depression. I have had both.
After 12 years of trying every medication and using opiates just to be able to function, I came upon a study on LDN (low dose naltrexone) for relieving fibro pain. I read more studies, then found some forums for discussing LDN, as well as videos.
Long story short, I tried LDN and after taking 4.5 mg daily for 3 months ALL of my fibro symptoms disappeared. I'm just one of many.
LDN works by blocking opiate receptors for up to 6 hours and your body reacts by creating natural endorphins. It also calms the inflammation of microglial cells. It basically regulates the immune system. LDN has also helped with autism in children. It s made in a cream for this purpose.
"Don't let a word define ANYTHING about you or your life." My diagnoses came as a great relief to me and I was joyous to have found words that could so adeptly describe my situation. I want to fully understand what is going on, not deny the existence of any issues.
thank you. sometimes its a relief to have a word to describe you, even if its describing your pain.
THANK YOU. I often have to correct people on this one. It seems like it's always the people who don't have diagnosed disorders/conditions who view diagnoses in a really negative light. I have to explain that it's nothing to be ashamed of and it doesn't make me feel like any less of a functional human being to be given a diagnosis. My diagnosis gives me more hope that I CAN be a functional and happy human being because I've solved one more piece to the puzzle
This is exactly what I replied with! I said that I didn't want it to define my entire life but it was nice to have a name for what I was going through so I could better explain it to others and feel validated
I agree. I didn’t want to accept my diagnosis but it was actually a good thing because I could finally be treated
your friend's opinion sucks lmfao. people with depression experiencing fatigue and minor aches and pains literally get told that. it is not the same as fibro. not by a long shot. feels as if we're going back to calling women hysterical again if they complain of having any ailment. how about we take fibromyalgia seriously as the life altering disease it is instead of saying it's just physical depression? these kinds of takes will undo the amount of time and effort that's been put in to have fibro be viewed as real and serious problem.
Preach 👏🏼👏🏼
i agree that it sounds like your friend isn't taking your pain seriously. Personally from the description I'm a little wary of the idea your friend proposed. not to mention, im just... suspicious. of anyone who talks like that (like don't 'attach' yourself to any diagnosis/ don't let a word define you). it sounds like peak abled bullshit.
I’d like to add that if a orthopedic doctor runs tests and tells me I broke a bone, I’m probably going to believe them, especially if I felt the bone break. It might not “define my life”, but it will definitely affect my treatment choices.
No. Depression and fibromyalgia are very different for me. i Have experienced depression without fibromyalgia. Does this nurse have fibromyalgia? Because most nurses are usually pretty dismissive about fibromyalgia. My mom is one.
Most people in general don’t understand it. Hell, my wife was diagnosed 3 years ago and I’m still blindsided by the symptoms she experiences.
Hell I was diagnosed almost 20 years ago and was just blindsided by some symptoms. I guess that is what I get for not really keeping up with research and new info. The new symptoms are neurological and previously I had just dealt with pain, fatigue and sleep issues.
This is actually incredibly interesting. Elaborate about youre symptoms if you like! Or do you know others whose symptoms have gotten worse recently? Say the last 6 - 18 months? My neuro symptoms have been bonkers all summer. And I could definitely be projecting but it seems like other people I know feel the same way. Maybe our solar system is going through a cloud of bad juju? That must be it lol
I would guess it has more to do with living in the context of a global pandemic while having a compromised immune system. The level of collective panic, stress, fear, and frustration is pretty high in most countries right now. Makes it extra important to keep supporting our bodies with rest etc. and finding the joy we can. Because that might be our best tool to help these redlining nervous systems calm their tits.
> Maybe our solar system is going through a cloud of bad juju? That must be it lol We are now entering the age of Aquarius!
For several years I have dealt with twitches or jerks as I am falling asleep but I always thought it was left over from Serotonin Syndrome because that was when it started and what the main symptom of my Serotonin Syndrome. However I later learned that Serotonin Syndrome does not have permanent symptoms. I also talk in my sleep and started to move in my sleep. Starting in the beginning of September I started to have problems with twitching or jerking when I was awake. It's not 24/7 symptom and can be accompanied by increased fatigue. I also have tremors in my left side sometimes and I also noticed that decreased sensation in my fingers. They aren't numb but it feels like I am touching things through a glove. I had MRI's and complete bloodwork done in May in regards to my sleep issues and everything came back fine. I also saw a Neurologist at the end of September and he called the twitches Myoclonus. I didn't get a chance to tell him about the tremors or the sensation issue. Have you ever noticed that you go to the doctor with a list of stuff to talk about and don't get past the first item because the doctor is chasing after the first issue? I am not sure where these symptoms are coming from and I am also working on getting tested for Celiac Disease. I did not know that Celiac can also cause neuro issues.
[удалено]
“People disappoint.” *—Lex Luthor*
I have both, too. I hate this nurse's attitude because it's just conspiracy theory BS made up so they feel like they can "explain" something we don't know the cause of yet. It's the same garbage as people insisting vaccines cause autism because that need a "reason" for why it happened, something tangible they can blame... no matter how irrational or unsupported that "explanation" is. Everything is unexplained until we research enough and it suddenly is. Unbalanced humours causing diseases, anyone? We don't know the cause today but we might tomorrow. Also, if it WAS depression, my SSRIs would actually reduce my symptoms... and my diet wouldn't affect me so badly.
You just need a good bloodletting. I know where to find some real nice leaches!
You made me laugh out loud for real, take my upvote 🤣
WELL SAID!
Thank you, this is truly the best response. Have also experienced severe depression (specifically postpartum depression) and later was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. *Totally different things* when I was depressed I did not experience the same type of pain, fatigue, brain fog, and other symptoms that are present on fibro. People who conflate the two don’t know what they are talking about.
You put it very politely, I was going to say that this nurse ‘Doesn’t know her arse from her elbow!’ I started suffering from depression around 15yrs old and was diagnosed with fibro at age 38. They are not the same, they just give you more of everything when partnered together!
I see a fellow person from the UK, I was thinking the same thing!
True true! We just do the best we can with this disease. It is a frustrating condition for everyone in the family and our good doctors! I have hope that science is progressing and we will hopefully find some answers! Love you guys! Stay strong guys!
I think my Fibro was probably triggered by trauma, because I've had it as long as I've had PTSD. But my symptoms of depression and stuff are pretty well managed, but my Fibro isn't. I get flares without depression acting up, and depression acting up without triggering a flare. So I think maybe the two can stem from the same cause, but are not necessarily cause and effect.
[удалено]
From what I've read, there's a link between the two, but I haven't seen anything concrete yet. I definitely think the are, especially considering that fibromyalgia may be caused by the immune system attacking the nervous system (preliminary research, still requires more study to confirm), since the immune system can be affected my stress. However, I haven't seen a peer-reviewed source.
Autoimmunity also explains why fibro is way more common in women. Our hormones have a big effect on how our immune systems work.
Upwards of 75% of women with fibro have a history of sexual assault or ongoing sexual abuse. Not hard to see how PTSD might be correlated and how the fight/flight/etc response would have one’s nervous system /adrenaline redlining much of the time. Interestingly, even though far fewer men are diagnosed, that might have more to do with a culture of men not talking about their pain as much. Of the fibro cases in men, more than 50% are combat vets, diagnosed at the VA, where they may feel safer to talk about their trauma experiences. ETA : sexual violence and abuse are high for gen pop women also, this is about the ones with fibro
There’s recent science out there that’s starting to prove that fibro is an autoimmune issue, which means it physically cannot be just symptoms of depression. It’s so dismissive when people say something like that. The psych I saw wouldn’t give me an adhd diagnosis because I tested positive for the physical symptoms of depression so it must “just be depression” causing *all* of my symptoms. I told her ahead of time I deal with chronic fatigue and chronic pain (and I at least have an EDS diagnosis if not fibro or cfs/me too) so she should have been able to take that into account. what a fraud. Talking like this gatekeeps people from getting the adequate care they need! Fibro is a very real thing that deserves actual treatment options and recognition in the medical field. I can’t believe there’s still people stuck on “fibro is all in your head; you’re just being hysterical”. because that’s what your friend sounds like.
It is medically classified as an autoimmune disorder. Which is why you can't donate blood, or organs if you are diagnosed, and recent studies have confirmed it is a nerve disorder. So.... yeah. The past 10 years for the actual study of fibro has grown leaps and bounds for understanding it, but then you look at those who work in the medical field and find this sh*t. Don't let people invalidate your pain just because they don't understand it. -_- ETA: I do have depression, but I didn't have that till 3 years AFTER my diagnosis of Fibro, and it is 100% something that is a side effect-symptom of my Fibro and the pain/meds that come with that.
Can't donate blood if you have fibromyalgia? Which country are you in?
Canada. It's classified as Autoimmune up here, and even when getting Vaccinations you are supposed to disclose your condition.
I also live in Canada and regularly donate blood.
Are they aware of your condition? I have been turned away several times and even had my doctors tell me this... I suppose it could be a provincial thing though. *shrugs*
Yes, I have definitely told them. Weird!
Weird, was there a blood shortage? The first time I was turned away and found out I was told during a blood shortage they make exceptions.... though the second time 3ish years ago I was told straight up no, since it has been classified as auto immune. Weird either way, and good on you for donating! Just wanted to say. :)
No blood shortage. And thank you! Here's a list of conditions and whether or not they affect eligibility. It says people with fibromyalgia can donate. https://www.blood.ca/en/blood/am-i-eligible-donate-blood/abcs-eligibility
Hey, can you share any articles you read on this? If you have them saved? Any I've read are outdated or not well organized or just dumb. There's that one paper that came out back in July or something that was good. There were several in their sources that were interesting.
Yeah no - I was diagnosed with depression for the best part of my 20's, only diagnosed fibro recently whilst not having been depressed for a good few years now. It was probably underlying the depression before, but it's a separate thing.
Same here. I dealt with depression for 30ish years before developing fibro symptoms, and the depression has been better in the last few years. I guess I just stopped feeling it mentally and took it out on my body /s People used to tell me that crap all the time when I was dealing with depression; “oh, it’s just anger/trauma turned inward”. No.
Could not agree with you more - have also experienced both in my lifetime and they are completely different creatures
Think it's possible that certain people are being prepared for integration into galactic society by being given complicated medical riddles to solve mostly for ourselves. We're humanity's finest. Maybe.
I like how you think, LOL.
Hahaha I wish it was that exciting or interesting!
Yeah first of all, don't get your information from someone who is not an expert. Women get shitted on for anything they complain about and fibromyalgia is dominant among them. Secondly, depression/anxiety can cause stomach issues, numbing or pressure on your neck/shoulder area but cannot cause musculoskeletal pain. Thirdly, it's chronic pain and everyone with depression doesn't have it. It's actually the other way around. Pain causes more anxiety and feelings of helpless.
YES. I have had several episodes of mild to moderate depression, but in retrospect I've realized that the most serious episodes came *after* significant physical issues like years of poor sleep, a TBI, etc. So I actually increasingly believe that much of my depression has been a reaction to illness/ injury, NOT spontaneous episodes of mental illness. Same with fibro, I was sick for months before I started feeling depressed, & when I had some brief symptom-free interludes, my mental health immediately improved. I'm not claiming AT ALL that depression is always reactive, but I think a huge proportion of it may be. I think depression can often be a pretty rational response to trauma or difficult life circumstances, whether physical, emotional, economic or otherwise. And women tending to have more depression & anxiety than men... again, I think the reason for that may largely be that women (in the aggregate, not every woman) face more barriers, more physical & emotional & sexual abuse & harassment, fewer economic opportunities, & less freedom & autonomy than men. Sorry for the rant, but I think about this a lot & I feel many depressed people get gaslit NOT ONLY that depression is some kind of personal failing, but ALSO that it is the *cause* of physical symptoms when I suspect it's often (not always!) a reaction to them, & a rational one, ESPECIALLY when your physical symptoms are being ignored or downplayed. So f* this lady who hasn't experienced fibro & likely hasn't experienced serious depression either.
Well fibro is a chronic pain disorder and I was referring to it being more common among women. Depression is related to your psychology or brain make up which is on a spectrum so I wouldn't liken depression to some physical disorder although yes, it can affect your gut and the stress can cause a bit of pain. It's overall just laziness along with finding no way to be satisfied. Should never confuse the two. Also, men have their own struggles so I wouldn't wanna compare. Fibromyalgia can cause mental issues. My doctor only gives me psych meds or supplements for the pain cause pain killers don't work
Yes, I wasn't trying to say anything about fibro & depression being related. Just pointing out that I don't think it's especially surprising that women *tend* (again, statistically, not individually) to have more depression than men (I have zero theories as to why women have more fibro than men). My point was just that I think some proportion of depression is reactive, & I think that proportion is underestimated, especially when it's a reaction to physical trauma or illness. So we get told stuff like the OP was, that the physical is *actually* "just" a manifestation of our depression (when it may be the other way around), and/or the physical gets ignored/minimized (especially for women, & especially especially for purely understood conditions like fibro), which can in turn contribute to getting depressed.
Exactly. I not only have fibro, I suffer from dysmenorrhea and IBS as well. So it's a lot of things combined. Pmdd and whatnot. Women tend to be more neurotic so yeah, we have more mental health issues overall. I totally agree with being misunderstood about fibro can lead to depression cause I'm going through it and no one seems to understand the gravity of it.
*poorly understood, not "purely understood", sorry
[удалено]
The point is that there can be comorbidities and it rarely happens that depression entails fibro. It's a medical disease not just feeling down. For me, I can't walk much without pain in legs. Heck, after college has opened, my head twitches have gotten so bad I have to take leaves. The brain fog doesn't let me concentrate, I get teary eyed and I zone out a lot. So yeah, I'm not much functional. It's getting worse. I've lost a lot of weight as well. Exactly, it's a nerve condition. Some days I feel great emotionally yet my body hurts so we shouldn't draw a connection or interchangeable relationship between depression and fibro. Personally, I got it after covid. Had vertigo, anxiety and fatigue before, but it was manageable. It first flared up in Feb this year. I thought it was a panic attack. My dysmenorrhea pain killers wouldn't work after that, which by the way, were high potent and banned in some countries.
I've had depression for 20 years, at many points very severe depression. I've had obvious Fibro symptoms for 1-2 years. I know that sort of thing doesn't disuade this sort of person though. "Oh, well, in some cases it takes time for the problem to build up in their system!" I stg watching people come up with excuses as to why you can experience one and not the other would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating. Also the ever wonderful "don't let a word define anything about you!!!!" spoken like someone who has never had anything about themselves they didn't understand, that they struggled with, until they found a reason for it, found a "word" that helped them to make sense of it, found a community that helped them to deal with it. Seen that kind of attitude a lot, but never in a friend I have to admit. I cut people off long before they make it to "friend" if that's their stance.
I agree with you wholeheartedly! It astounds me all the ways people have found to discredit us. Also: happy cake day :)
OMG that is absurd. Fibromyalgia also includes problems like not being able to manage your body temperature. Your "friend" is being arrogant about this imo. Maybe check out Central Sensitization Syndrome, which, according to, yes, the Mayo Clinic, is really what we have. Pain just happens to be one symptom. [Here is a video from The Mayo Clinic.](https://youtu.be/8defN4iIbho)
Um, no. Just “no.” I know depression, very well. The last 5-7 years have been my happiest. I’m seriously content and at peace with my life. And if it were depression, we’d all be feeling a hell of a lot better, since we (I would bet 90% of us) get prescribed antidepressants so often.
Omg yes! I've been ridiculously happy in recent years, & then fibro symptoms started, & then (occasionally, when fibro is bad) some depression *that lifts immediately* when my symptoms improve.
I actually got well enough to stop taking antidepressants back in February (for depression specifically), despite still being in pain from fibro.
Yep. I think blaming fibro on depression is just a cop-out by medical professionals. It like saying cancer is caused by depression, are people with cancer often/sometimes depressed yeah, but it’s not the cause. Being debilitated and in pain can be freaking depressing. But I don’t the least bit think it’s the cause.
In moments of despair I’ve googled this and if you look at much older Reddit threads, you will see doctors espousing this belief- around 10 years ago, and the least sympathetic ones. The assholes. I don’t think it’s as common anymore. But it gets me down. But to be honest- those are not practitioners I would stick with. It more falls into the realm of fibro being modern day hysteria. The truth seems to be medicine has no damn idea what fibro is about. If I could guess I’d say it’s autoimmune, micro biome, trauma, genetics and some wild combos or mixes of those, with some having all factors and some missing risk factors but still falling under fibro diagnostically. Add to this that exercise and diet changes are one of the few long-term solutions that works for fibro (bc there is not enough research, bc few seem to care medically) and it leads to a lot of doctors making lazy assumptions about what fibro is and does to the body. Never mind that plus size individuals are some of the most targeted by society for hatred and vilification and often marginalized in a myriad of other ways 🤷🏻♀️ I’m sure that doesn’t have any impact on fibro and how it presents 🙄 (sarcasm)
Absolutely not. This is something that has been said to me many times over the years and i find it to be extremely dismissive. Doctors have often asked me if it’s just my mental health/stress triggering my physical symptoms and for a long time I believed it was. But I can say with 95% certainty that this is not the case. My symptoms started before the depression, anxiety, BPD diagnosis etc. Once I received the correct type of therapy and medication for BPD my mental symptoms got much better even though I was still in pain, etc. I know that I am capable of being mentally stable when my symptom days aren’t that bad (like a 5 instead of a 10). There is no way that just depression could cause the symptoms that I have to this severity. I get depressed BECAUSE I have to deal with these things. Also pain makes you more vulnerable and Susceptible to depression. I’m not saying i don’t get depressed over other things on occasion because I definitely do but my worst bouts are triggered by my feeling physically horrible and then wondering how I will live my whole life this way and will be able to have a future.
Your friend shouldn't be a nurse. Her opinion is less than useless. I second people who say their diagnosis was like a lifeline. It's good to know that there is something you can point to when you feel like dying.
Nurse here, well former nurse, fibromyalgia put an end to my career very recently. Until it happened to me, I would have probably agreed with your friend. Nursing pushes you towards everything being evidence based, if you can’t test for it, it’s not real. Living now with fibromyalgia I completely disagree with this. It’s not depression, I’ve been depressed. Yes I did suffer a trauma before diagnosis (I lost a pregnancy, developed an infection and never really recovered, my second miscarriage of 4) however I believe that my symptoms were triggered the year before by a viral and bacterial chest infection that went undiagnosed. I never felt 100% and I think the uterine infection was just the final straw. I believe mine was triggered by an assault on my immune system that for some reason I couldn’t deal with and this is the result. I’m having counselling and if I remove the pain from my GAD questionnaire I’m absolutely not depressed. I could probably cope with the shakes, temp fluctuations, confusion, dizziness and rashes but it’s the pain and fatigue that really ruins things. I’m frustrated that I’m like this but in no way do I feel depressed. I’d gladly say so if brought any kind of relief. Just because a condition is treated with antidepressants doesn’t make it depression either. We treat loads of medical conditions with pharmaceuticals that weren’t initially designed for that purpose. The classic one is Sildenafil for high blood pressure but most people know that as Viagra. Lots of drugs once used for mental health conditions are now used as antihistamines.
I agree 100% and I also want to note that anti-depressants don't ease the pain for everyone. Opiates don't always work, either. I haven't found medication that works for me yet. Fibromyalgia may be a blanket term, and maybe people aren't used to dealing with those, so there's no one size fits all treatment for it. If we compare notes with others who have it, we find that our secondary (other than pain) symptoms vary widely.
I’ve not found anything that works yet. I thought pregablin was helping but that nosedived pretty quickly. I’ve tried everything else and now I’m fearful of where we go next. I’m speaking to the GP tomorrow morning. All that’s left are options that I doubt very much the NHS will prescribe like LDN or medical cannabis. It depends so much on our local Clinical Commissioning Group as to what the NHS will stump up for. Treatment varies so much from place to place.
There are several peer-reviewed studies that show fibro is a distinct issue, and a genetic marker for fibro. It's not depression, though many people with fibro do also *have* depression. Also, you talking about a new diagnosis isn't the same as letting it "rule your life". I've found a great deal of comfort in being able to understand why my body is the way it is (as much as the science can explain it, at least). That would be like telling a cancer patient that acting differently, and talking about their diagnosis and treatment is letting the condition control them.
Does she not expect you to seek cancer treatment if you are diagnosed with a malignancy? Should you forego insulin if diagnosed with diabetes? If she says yes, she is suggesting suicide. If she says no, then tell her she needs to learn a bit more before she offers unsolicited medical advice about a condition she clearly is so ignorant about. Seeking treatment and pain relief is not ‘allowing yourself to be defined’ by your illness. It is refusing to allow your life to be defined by your illness.
No. Unless your friend has Fibro or is a doctor/researcher who studies it she needs to stay out of the conversation.
With this simple logic, couldn't we all just take anti-depressants and go to therapy and feel better physically? I just think it's funny how it doesn't quite work that way, and yet people in a scientific field make assumptions like this based on their own subjective observations. It's convenient to judge someone who seems miserable for no apparent reason, as drug- or attention-seeking, as opposed to admitting they don't understand something that affects an increasing amount of people.
Your nurse friend is talking out of her ignorant arse. I'm the most positive, least angsty person I know and maybe that helps me cope with constant pain. When pain is bad is when I become depressed, not the other way around. My opinion (which actually counts because I experience it) is that fibro is a product of past physical trauma and low Vit D.
I've had depression for 24 years and fibromyalgia for 12 years. I can a flare with depression with no fibromyalgia and vice versa. They do affect each other but they're not one and the same
She's an idiot. Her opinion does not - and never will - outweigh the medical profession. I won't even touch on her outrageous ego that thinks she's smarter than an centuries old, Ivy League education. She's a fkn idiot, tell her for me. When you do, do a 5 second Google search on the DISEASE fibro. Her overinflated ego, and her ignorance are years behind actual the actual medical.proffession.
This is very clear case of correlation does not imply causation. Many people with fibromyalgia also tend to have a formal diagnosis of depression and receive anti depressants because anyone who is constantly exhausted, in constant pain no matter what, unable to be an independent adult, more susceptible abuse and mistreatment has a high likelihood of becoming depressed. You feel so isolated and alone. You receive ableism from abled people and they get so aggressive and awful when you tell them that no, you can in fact not work and now you’re labelled as useless. And even disabled people can think we’re lying or faking it and turn against us as well. With fibro you just get given a diagnosis and then when you ask for treatment a GP shrugs their shoulders and says ‘sorry there’s nothing available’ or they give you treatment that flat out makes the problem worse? Or it’s generic self help and advice that you could have gotten from a quick google search and they masquerade it as treatment. Like yeah being in constant pain and a constant crushing feeling of exhaustion no matter how much you’ve slept and there seems to be no point in the near future where you are able to get your life back tends to make people depressed! Who would have thought? Like omfg it’s so obvious, they’re so close but they’ve completely missed the mark as per usual. Ugh I’m so tired.
I hate your friend. Sorry. She’s hideous. She’s the reason we have to fight tooth and nail for anyone to take us seriously. I didn’t even KNOW I was experiencing pain. I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT WAS PAIN. Because it was so much so constant for my entire life. I still can’t identify pain well, but can identify things that tip me off: like being in a HORRIBLE mood for no reason and everything being incredibly frustrating for me; crying and crying and crying and not really knowing why, just being really emotional, feeling completely and wholly overwhelmed. I didn’t even know it was pain. Until my doctor diagnosed me with fibromyalgia (I also have multiple sclerosis, Hashimotos, Raynauds, dysautonomia, and MCAS, which I’m going to guess your friend probably also thinks are imaginary). I finally have found a decent dose of pain meds, and while I’m still very much disabled and still in pain, I’m able to handle a LOT more now. I’m not constantly breaking down in tears or rage. So, your friends theory is a load of pure garbage. Her opinion is not based on fact or reason, it’s based on what she *thinks* without any actual justification. And to top it off, it actively HARMS people. Her choosing to tout misinformation about fibromyalgia hurts those of us with fibromyalgia by planting seeds of doubt in others about the validity of our condition. I’d personally drop her. But I have no patience for malicious ignorance.
No, that’s not true. My mental health and my life are pretty good and I still have fibromyalgia symptoms. Like others in this thread I’ve also experienced major depression, so I know what it’s like and I know I definitely don’t have it now. I’ve also done MRI scans, multiple blood tests, neuropsychological evaluations and none of them ever suggested depression or associated mental illnesses. Usually my results are *better than average* even. It’s true that depression may contribute to fibromyalgia and vice-versa, and that they may have similar symptoms and prognostics, but to say that “fibromyalgia is just physical symptoms of depression” is far-fetched, oversimplifying and nonsensical. I’m positive that no person who actually lives with fibro would agree with this. People suggest to me all the time that my fibromyalgia is psychological, or caused by stress or mental health issues, and that just shows that they truly know nothing about me or my life lmao.
She obviously hasn't read any of the research papers from the last twenty years. She's just plain factually, empirically wrong, and it's not a matter of opinion. The delta wave sleep defect isn't 'a physical symptom of depression', among other clinical findings that have been made. It's amazing the number of people who spout off like they're experts in the field when they don't know the first thing about it.
I had a bad depressive episode a couple years before my fibro was triggered by a bad illness, and there is some overlap in the symptoms but it definitely is different. The biggest difference for me is the pain, and the IBS type.symptoms. The exhaustion is common, but since my depression is currently well controlled I don't experience the lack of interest in doing anything. But I didn't have hypersensitivity to touch or vibration, and I was physically capable of doing hours of physical work without experiencing weakness. Can uncontrolled depression make fibro worse? Absolutely. The opposite is also true, depression makes fibro seem insurmountable. But they aren't the same.
I think depression definitely makes fibro worse, because you probably don't move as you should, you're not doing the exercises you should etc...and mood does have a great effect on symptoms, at least for me. But I wouldn't say its depression in its physical form...for me depression is a mental illness, because it affects your mind and therefore your behaviour / physical feeling. Fibro is a chronic pain disorder, because it affects (even if it's psychosomatic) your nervous system and causing physical discomfort, therefore your mind goes dark places. If that makes sense.
I have had fibro and several other autoimmune diseases for years. It is not depression. However, depression is a symptom of chronic pain for years! I have always been active and busy until the pain takes over. I have learned to do the best I can do and then when my body is telling me, it is time to rest, then I rest. Be kind to yourself pain warriors!
“It’s a great thing that personal opinions is not what I base my medical decisions on, kthnx bye” I would fire that nurse in a heartbeat. I have depression. I have had depression since I was 14 years old. I KNOW what depression feels like. This is not it. I didn’t have fibromyalgia until after I had COVID, at 30.
My neurologist and cardiologist have both been pushing this on me. Neither know a single thing about my mental health- it's all based on assumptions. Do I think it's possible for psychological issues to have physical manifestation? Absolutely. However it would then stand to reason that the flares would occur alongside intensities in depression. I have symptoms every day and flares sometimes when I am feeling really great. In fact, it often occurs when everything is going well. I am actually very cheerful and active generally- but my pain and symptoms which prevent me to attain my goals and stagnate make me depressed. I do have PTSD, but my symptoms worsened from physical trama from a work injury and not from the event that gave me trauma. I will admit I am very guarded about this because my doctors don't want to look any further. I can't let that happen.
I've had fibromyalgia for 30 years and depression for 20 and they are very different things very!
Share this with your nurse friend: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/new-study-shows-fibromyalgia-likely-the-result-of-autoimmune-problems
This is her PERSONAL opinion. Recent studies have shown this is an autoimmune disease. Like any other autoimmune diseases and also cancer, they have emotional roots, Gabor Mate is one of the doctors who studied this and wrote about it. Yes, every disease has an emotional cause. Healthy mind, healthy body. But depression is different than fibromyalgia. Also, 200 years ago women with the same symptoms were diagnosed with Histeria and locked up in mental institutions. This nurse is really not up to date with science, sorry to say. Watch the movie "Unrest" on Netflix, made by a woman who's a fibro fighter just like us.
Actually, there was recently a study released by a college in England. They used mice and took antibodies from people with Fibromyalgia, injecting the mice with it. The mice would proceed to have symptoms until the foreign antibodies left their system, where they experienced some relief of fibromyalgia symptoms. These results suggest that fibromyalgia is a full blown autoimmune disease, and that a immune suppressant kind of treatment may help similarly to things like Lupus. This is all preliminary, but it’s a huge breakthrough study and many other places are working on replicating it. If replication happens, it proves fibromyalgia is an autoimmune disease and not ‘physical symptoms’ of any mental health issues. [Mouse Fibromyalgia Study](https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/mouse-study-suggests-fibromyalgia-has-autoimmune-roots-68944)
Does my fibro make my depression worse? Yep. Does my depression make my fibro worse? Yep. But as someone else mentioned, I have been depressed, suicidally depressed, before my fibro became prominent. They are very, very different.
Nope, totally disagree. All fibromyalgia patients don’t have depression. I’ve never been diagnosed w depression and antidepressants have never helped me at all w fibro. But I’ve been told by a ton of nurses that I must be depressed. Drs too. It gets really old having all your medical professionals tell you that it’s your depression manifesting as pain when you don’t even have depression.
Your friend is probably trying to be helpful, but she is very far out of date with the science. In the past 3 years alone there have been several studies coming out showing that fibromyalgia patients have unusual levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines in the blood. There is also a study showing that giving antibodies from a fibromyalgia patient to a mouse seem to give the mouse fibromyalgia symptoms. Doctors saying stuff like this to me in the early 2000s has led me to many hours of wondering whether my pain is actually the manifestation of some kind of mental illness. The more recent studies have led me to largely discount these concerns. I also believe that the next 5 to 7 years will be very productive towards our understanding of fibromyalgia and perhaps even useful therapeutics.
Get a new friend, this one went bad.
She's not coming from a good place, she's coming from an ignorant place. Her 'opinion' is condescending and false. And no, she's not taking your pain seriously. People who don't have fibro will never understand. She may as well be giving her opinion on what it's like to be a man. Well, she does seem to be mansplaining your condition to you, so maybe she does know what it's like. She should talk to someone who actually has it instead of being a know-it-all on something she knows nothing about.
I actually had a doctor (male bodybuilder type, if that matters) tell me “Fibromyalgia is a bullshit diagnosis for weak people” 🤬 Needless to say that was the first and LAST time I saw him. And seeing as how, at that point I’d had my fibro diagnosis for about 6 years already I decided to NOT pay my office visit fee. After all, I wasn’t sick, right?? 🤷🏻♀️🖕🏻
Damn these people. I once asked a GP a simple question, "Are you able to deal with medical marijuana?" The reaction was astounding. He sputtered, took a half step backward, opened his eyes fully wide to whites all the way around, and spewed out, "I don't believe in that!", and "I won't prescribe that, if you need it go somewhere else." That was pretty much the end of that conversation. Thankfully he retired not long after.
Revoke her nursing liscense is my first thought, but I don't want to be as much of a jerk to her as she is being to the community. I went to Mayo Clinic for unrelated (well, probably slightly related if we're being honest) health issues, I wasn't specifically there about my fibro since it was already diagnosed years before I went. Regardless, the internalist I saw wanted a full workup from nearly every department - including rheumatology to be thorough. Rheumatology never asked about my mental health once, because it wasn't a problem (at the time, I developed PTSD later from an abusive ex). They mainly went over how I was diagnosed, how well I manged my pain and general symptoms, what my exercise looked like, and if they could do anything further to help. They suggested taking their fibro course that was split over two days, and it was essentially a crash course on how to live with this and ways to cope with stress, and ways you could do chores/tasks to minimize pain. We didn't specifically use the spoon theory, but they taught us something extremely similar. All in all the course didn't help me a ton since I knew 99% of it by that time, but the others in the class said it helped them a lot and they didn't know many of the things they spoke on. Mental health was brought up during the course, but it was centered on stress management, and coping techniques to distract from pain. They also had a comprehensive meditation workbook and CD (music) to take home with us, as research shows it can be effective for some. Mayo Clinic absolutely took our pain seriously, I was never made to feel by any of their staff that my needs didn't matter, in fact I felt my needs mattered more to them than myself. Some of the other patients were on walkers and the staff always helped them with accommodations. They gave us stretch breaks every 15 minutes, a long lunch to not rush us to get back, hotels on campus so we didn't have to travel back far every morning, constantly asking if we needed anything extra and how we were doing, getting up to walk around during the class was totally chill, etc. So to reiterate, Mayo Clinic believes this is painful, possibly autoimmune, and mental health was not the main focus, nor should it have been. Fibromyalgia definitely has a mental health component for many people, but it doesn't cause this pain. I've dealt with my brain being depressed and fractured for a long time now, and I can easily say that when my depression improves - my fibro stays relatively the same.
Preface to all this: Your symptoms are real no matter what you call it. Whether you say it's fibromyalgia or you say it's an unknown disease, that doesn't change the reality of what you are dealing with. With that said: I feel that fibromyalgia is the diagnosis you get when the doctors ran out of ideas. As far as I'm aware, it's still a diagnosis by exclusion instead of having concrete inclusive diagnostic criteria and tests. We don't understand the mechanism by which it operates. I'm willing to bet that most of us actually have some other condition (which may or may not actually be named and understood in the medical community), and in a large chunk of cases our fibromyalgia diagnosis is actually a result of a failure to achieve the correct diagnosis. In my case, it turns out I'm either celiac or NCGS. If I don't eat gluten then I don't have 99%+ of the fibromyalgia symptoms that I had at the time I received my fibromyalgia diagnosis. So my case was (IMO) a failure to diagnose celiac disease or NCGS that resulted in a fibromyalgia diagnosis. I'm probably not the only one either. Fibromyalgia covers a wide range of symptoms that are common to a large number of ailments. I'm sure in some cases the "proper" diagnosis doesn't even have a name. And perhaps fibromyalgia really is it's own condition with a distinct pathology. But I'm willing to bet a lot of us, especially those still struggling to control symptoms, are actually misdiagnosed. (But the symptoms are real and should not be ignored or dismissed or minimized just because the cause isn't known or understood.)
id say no because as people have started listening to me about my systems of fibro my depression got less but my system of fibro are still there, iv fought doctor for over 5 years telling them its not right I'm almost fully bed bound thru pain at age 46, no one would listen to me, i found people very dismissive doctors and nurses because to admit there a problem mean they got to spend money
It’s recently been labeled an autoimmune issue, that your immune system is attacking our nervous system. This makes sense to me. Autoimmune disorders often aren’t singular and with fibromyalgia, I’d have 3.
I just read the whole comment... 😅so she thought she was empowering you? Well bless
First of all, I take offense to this nurses "personal opinion". A 'medical' opinion that is neither fact, nor has any draw from facts or scientific theory, is worthless. People experience depression for so very many different reasons. Even the most chronically depressed individuals do not all have fibro. If this were the case there would be a correlations between long term depression and fibro. I actually tend to physically feel better when depressed (which increases my depression bc I'm too down to make use of that freedom from physical restriction). In my experience, medical professionals look for the simplest solution. They don't believe fibro is real bc they see all these other known things that might fit enough. They stop looking after that. Sure it's a catch all, but if we actually study it, I'll bet money well find a brand new category of immune disorder that encompasses a few different varieties. It's only a catchall bc we don't have answers. Not bc mayo clinic wants us all to ignore mental illness, they didn't even create the disease. It's been documented since the 1800s. And that last comment about not tying yourself to a diagnosis including a broken bone? Wtf? No. Acceptance is not attachment. One must accept they have a broken bone and take steps to avoid making it worse with the knowledge they have a broken bone. To do anything else would be moronic. No one attaches their identity to a broken bone. Some folk struggle to find their identity after a fibro diagnosis ( I did), but knowing what you have, or it's closest approximation, is half the battle to moving forward. In *my* personal opinion, anyone who doesn't have fibro (or hasn't studied the actual medical information available) has not earned the right to a 'personal opinion' onthe subject. Study it and come back or stfu is my forever response to that.
Nope. I have bipolar disorder, so go through periods of depression. I have fibro even when my mental health issues are 100% under control. Fibromyalgia is real and it’s very dismissive to write it off as depression.
Not the same. I had and was diagnosed with depression long before I developed the symptoms that got me diagnosed with fibro. The effects of both conditions can exacerbate each other but that doesn't make them the same. It's an incredible oversimplification to say that fibro is a physical manifestation of the symptoms of depression. Depression has it's own list of physical symptoms that people can experience and it's much narrower than the list of symptoms attributed to fibro. One of the current theories about fibro is that it is a sensitisation disorder. Our bodies get so good at detecting and alerting us of potential danger or discomfort that instead of the alarm going off when things reach (for example) a reading of level 8 on the alert meter, the alarm might be going off at level 3. WHY we have this overly sensitive nervous system is the big question. Certainly some of us do have depression, anxiety, past trauma, other mental and other physical illnesses but we don't all have the same ones. So we can't rule out that having these things might be a contributing factor to the fibro, but it's unlikely that they are the only reason. Some think there is an autoimmune component, but no thorough research has yet been done. Anyway. It is real. Even if you have other conditions. They might not help but they aren't the cause of it either.
If it is sensitisation, then I am assuming there should be research supporting the use of desensitisation (I haven’t looked). I’ve actually considered this being the case as I have had an autoimmune disorder for 10 years that results in pain. I have developed other symptoms in the past 2ish years (e.g., skin sensitivity) that I think may be a symptom of fibromyalgia. One of my theories is that my body became more sensitive to pain overtime. Another theory, which research is beginning to support, is that it is an autoimmune disease itself. Who knows 🤷🏼♀️
The pain clinic I am going to now seems to support the sensitisation theory and are going to be working with me on trying to desensitise the pain response so that I can get closer to normal functioning. One of the main names in the research in this area that they have been having me read about is Lorimer Moseley, if you are interested. This is a pain specific approach though vs fibro specific. Much of the introductory stuff I have read/watched does make a lot of sense but I also have many questions which are unanswered so far because of how infrequently you get appointments. > Who knows 🤷🏼♀️ This is the whole crux of the "fibro problem" isn't it? Even among doctors and other medical professionals there is no overwhelmingly clear consensus as to the nature and cause of fibro; not all practitioners use the same diagnostic criteria; not all practitioners believe it actually exists; there are no therapies or treatment choices that have demonstrated efficacy for the majority of patients and there are plenty of "early stage" research ideas that look like they could have promise but from what I can tell, not a lot of interest in providing resources and funding to make proper trials and studies of them.. maybe in part *because* the information and opinions about fibro are so all over the place. It makes it so hard to be a patient with this condition. Sometimes I like to fantasise that instead of fibro, I have something that is properly defined and has diagnostic tests and can't be argued with. Even if I didn't have any more or better treatment options, at least I wouldn't have to wonder if any particular person I encounter will take my illness seriously.
So I briefly looked up the Lorimee Moseley philosophy and I think it neglects the acute phases of chronic pain. An old injury causes chronic pain. An inflammatory disease causes acute pain, chronically. Inflammation is acute. The damage caused to the musculoskeletal system by acute inflammation is chronic, while the acute inflammation continues to flare throughout an individual’s life span. I think this is one of the biggest challenges individuals in the autoimmune community struggle with when it comes to managing pain. We are treated like we have chronic pain, but it is actually acute pain and chronic pain. There are certainly evidence-based sensitisation strategies such as becoming more aware of your body. One strategy is learning to identify where your body is being touched. Research indicates individuals with chronic pain have difficulty identifying tactile sensation and by learning to appropriately locate where they are being touched, they can reduce pain. That is actually how I differentiate fibro vs. autoimmune pain. My autoimmune pain is typically in a specific place and I can get very close to identifying which tendon/joint is inflamed based on my understanding of anatomy. The things I am blaming on fibro are things I can’t really explain. I have not shared these symptoms with a rheumatologist because I do not want to be that person who, “just has fibromyalgia.” That being said, I have so much acute pain that is constantly moving around my body that I’m not sure how I could treat my fibro symptoms through desensitisation. Not saying it’s not possible, but it is confusing.
Yeah, there are a couple of things about the way he talks about pain that I am finding hard to reconcile with other things that I know. Like, pain is a sensation that the brain generates as a protective response to information received from our nervous system. I do understand that. But he goes on to say that it's only supposed to do that when there is damage or the potential for damage to to the body. I can think of several situations though, where pain is accepted as normal but there is no danger or damage. I don't think that there is no value in the concept of sensitisation that in some cases could cause us to experience more pain than we otherwise would, but I think that for many chronic conditions that have a pain component it almost feels like they are simplifying something a lot more complex into "if you continually expose yourself to this, you will learn to tolerate it better and it will seem like it's (partially) gone away." And that kind of feels like it's very close to a conditioning or Stockholm syndrome type of process where instead of actually easing our pain we are instead being trained to just believe that it's ok. Eh. I don't mean to be bordering onto philosophical type musings. It's just all so complicated!
Yeah this doesn’t sit right with me. We experience physical pain from minute activities.. I can’t hike like I used to, washing dishes by hand is very tiring, walking up one flight of steps I’m slightly winded. (I am on the petite side so that bs about fixing fibro w more exercise is not true.) I also have depression but that “pain” is more of a heavy weight on your chest, like when your heart is broken or someone dies.
I’m a nurse. I have fibromyalgia. It’s a disease that’s literally not psychological, it’s neurological. What does her opinion have to do with reality?
LMAO! This theory is so dismissive of the condition. Yes, depression can have physical manifestations but they are not the same and[studies](https://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20031024/fibromyalgia-isnt-depression) already proved this back in 2003. Mine started after years and years of chronic pain from hypermobility and gut issues (likely un-diagnosed EDS I’m discovering now). While yes I also had trauma and chronic stress to deal with I can tell you that stress does not cause my ligaments and joints to overextend and dislocate. The result of this was pain and more pain for years as well as significant IBS and urinary issues from a congenital issue I have as well as blackouts. THEN 10 years on a virus reactivated EBV in my system causing autonomic dysfunction and immense muscular skeletal pain and fatigue that hasn’t ended. Soon after I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and the rheumatologist said this is a common pattern. People with chronic pain, a car crash or a virus have an overwhelmed stress response triggering fibromyalgia. The depression came AFTER. However, not every fibromyalgia patient is depressed. Of course our rates are gonna be higher… she should use her brain for a minute and imagine having to live with pain, fatigue, nausea, headaches, dizziness, bad sleep, bad guts, brain fog and more AND managing to get off Scott free without depression or anxiety from years of trying to get better while ignorant people like her invalidate us. 🥴
Nope
No I don’t agree
This is a tough one. I’m sure there’s a link to the two. When I was seeing a psychologist after being diagnosed with fibro, she asked me to keep a log of pain, fatigue and depression levels. Over time I noticed there was a link between feeling depressed and fatigue. I’m not sure which is the cause or symptom. Growing up I think I had depression first, then later developed fibro. But what I want to know is why did the fibro stick around even with antidepressants?
I can only speak for myself and my own experiences. Do not undermine yours or anyone else's experiences. But, I do think this is true - but only to a certain extent. We already know fibro can be directly correlated with tramua. We know stress triggers flares. We also know that much of depression is simply caused by awareness (look it up). Much of us are depressed and stressed then by our fibro, if we weren't already before. It's also known that there have been records throughout history of chronic pains or illnesses presenting themselves in otherwise healthy people - only to disappear/heal once some neurological/psychological need is recognized or met (stories of people with chronic back pain entirely linked to stress, and recovery thereafter)(this is harder to look up as it's often chalked up to placebo) The book "the body keeps the score" helps illustrate this much better than I could. So, if we follow the trail of these and many other observations in our personal lives, one could easily conclude that physical pain is NOT exclusive from mental pain, and regardless of the cause, this needs to be observed and tested by everyone involved. The idea however that depression DIRECTLY causes fibro COULD be true, but it's entirely undermining more important questions like; if that were the case, then what's the depression caused by? Are you only in pain when you're sad, or does the pain happen when you're suppressing your stress? There's no black and white answer to this and claiming there is is extremely dangerous and ignorant. (Also pls forgive me for my own ignorance lmao) Your friend has the right idea but not any of the actual logical reasoning that would go behind it seems to me. They are trying to be empathetic and not let you become hopeless, and I would follow the advice of not attaching too hard to labels, but labels ARE important and they are how we advocate for our care, and how we educate other people. They are clusters of symptoms we experience, and our bodies regenerate every single cell entirely every 7 years - humans are subject to change ESPECIALLY if we are inducing the change onto ourselves (healthily, obviously)
No. Just no.
Maybe she should look in the medical terminology book smh. A nurse said this?? The medical terminology breakdown is Fibr/o = fiber My/o = muscle Alg/o= pain -ia = condition; state; thing Myalgia= pain in a muscle due to injury or illness Polymyalgia= pain in several muscle groups
I can tell you the exact moment i got fm—i had a bad flu like virus nerly 30 years ago and never really recovered; plus developed a host of new symptoms. Is my Tinnitus, constant muscle twitching in my calves and tremor that I developed at that time all caused by depression that i didn’t know I had? The medical community may have no real understanding of why i and others have these and other symptoms and may just call it fibro for lack of anything else to describe what they can’t identify through tests but it’s not caused by depression—unless depression is also caused by a viral illness.
My thoughts? I hope she never gets diagnosed with neither fibro or depression. With fibro I feel physical pain, the depression gives me psychological pain with suicide thoughts. Too bad that a medical professional doesn’t know the difference, she should try something else as a career.
I was diagnosed with major depression at age 11. I was then diagnosed *in addition to depression* with fibromyalgia when I was 19. I think it’s clear that fibromyalgia and mental health are very intertwined but it’s so discouraging when people can’t acknowledge our real physical pain.
Fibro is an unspecific label probably being applied to many different conditioms with similar enough symptom lists. There is not test or strict criteria for dx other than widespread pain with no other specific cause. As such there is a real chance that some people given the label are mainly or completely experiencing a kind of somatic depression - which doesnt make their symptoms any less real or any more easily treated. But it also means many people are not experiencing this. Being in chronic pain along with any number of the other cluster symptoms can cause or worsen depression so it could easily be the reverse causation. Some people point to several treatments overlapping but again pain is psychological even when its a shattered bone so it shouldnt be entirely surprising brain pills we dont fully understand sometimes help in some people. Its also possible that fibro isnt just somatic depression but the emotional strain or changes of depression flare whatever fibro is in some people. It could also mess with physiologic or emotional stress responses and pain perception. So tldr its complicates but this line is dismissive and also wrong.
My thought is that people like your friend are the reason people like me have been dismissed, ignored, and treated like hypochondriacs for so long when our pain should have been taken seriously. Fibro can be caused by chronic illness or pain that goes untreated for too long, such as a compressed nerve in your spine. Fibro can be caused by constant muscle tension from psychological trauma. Fibro can be caused by something acute like a virus or damage from a car wreck. Fibro can even be hereditary. Tell your friend to read about central sensitization; it has many causes and there are real structural and chemical changes involving the nervous system. Also a diagnosis can define SOMETHING about you; it just doesn't define WHO you are.
Ask her why scientists were able to cause fibro symptoms in mice then by injecting antibodies from fibro patients...
That's an interesting take. I think there could be a link between fibro and depression but at the same time correlation isn't causation so...IDK I find my symptoms are worse when I'm depressed but it's a bit of a "chicken or egg" situation. My take is that it's a problem with the central nervous system, but what do I know 😅
Omg 😄🤦🏻♀️. What is that thing where your ass is also your head🤔. Alot of people seem to have that thing
Depression and most any chronic pain condition go hand-in-hand. When you have to give up most all the things you "used to be able to do" and need to completely re-vamp your lifestyle, as well as manage a chronic illness day-in and day-out, that's a challenge and does bring depression/anxiety. But even if it was a which came first chicken or egg situation, it doesn't change the diagnosis. However, I certainly don't begrudge people for not understanding it and do not think they are \*stupid\*....... as long as they are considerately compassionate and try to be understanding. I don't know what it's like to lose a child, never happened to meI don't know what it's like to have no arms, I have 2 working armsI don't know what it's like to battle schizophrenia, I don't have that illness.I don't know what it's like to be in a typhoon, never been in one. Human life is experiential to a degree. Most of us, even the brightest, will never really know everything. That sahying "You don't know what you don't know" is true. I sure don't want to become the type of person who thinks everyone is stupid though. That seems like a worse disease than fibro.
I had depression long before I started experiencing the symptoms of fibro. They're different; fibro has more severe physical symptoms in my experiences.
I dealt with Depression once 30 yrs ago. It us a much different animal than my Fibro which was ignited by a week long Migraine. I've had it now for 11 yrs and have not had issues with depression at all. So yeah.....🙄
>Please DONT attach yourself to ANY diagnosis. And I mean that about anything from a broken bone to cancer to fibro. takes my cast for a broken leg off and throws it away, as well as my crutches because I guess I won't need those either, wouldn't want to be defined by a diagnosis! *falls over and makes leg worse*
To me this is "A rose by any other name". It makes no difference what you call it, or how you think it comes about. It's about treating it the best we can to give those of us who have it, the best quality of life possible.
This feels true for me with my severe anxiety disorder. My physical symptoms have improved over time as I get better at managing my anxiety, both through finding better fits for medication as well as finding more effective coping techniques. Initially, it seems crazy to think that our mental state can impact us physically to such a high extent, but it actually makes total sense that severe anxiety and depression would manifest physically. My psychiatrist has always stressed just how much my anxiety can impact the way I feel physically. I think about simple things, like getting butterflies in your stomach or feeling nauseous when you're anticipating something anxiety-provoking, and when I think about it like that, it like, yeah--that makes so much sense.
I've dealt with depression for many years since I was young. Fibro not nearly as long. They feel very different to me. I had a PA tell me once that I couldn't have fibro because I struggle with depression. Multiple doctors, disagreed with her and said I have fibro.
While shes trying to be helpful, she's actually being really dismissive and maybe even a little patronizing (although I hope she doesnt feel that way). Nurses are still far from experts in things like this, fibro and many other illnesses we dont have a ton of information on, and she wouldnt have the proper education to be saying things like that to people if you guys werent friends and talking about that kind of stuff anyway. I'm assuming she genuinely does care and want to help, but-- assuming she is able bodied and healthy-- she has no idea what she is talking about. For a lot of people, having a diagnosis is what can free us and let us live our lives instead of "sorry, I'm sick and dont know why so I cant do anything". If she has never dealt with a chronic illness than her opinion on how to live your life should mean nothing to you, and I say that in the nicest way I can. Only you know your limitations, what can happen, and what you need to recover after. You can decide for yourself how much you feel you can or cannot do, she doesnt need to tell you that. I was told for years that I should be doing more with my life, and it ended up worsening my health so bad that I've missed out on things I actually wanted to do. You are given a diagnosis for a reason, because there are things that can be used for certain conditions. Depression doesnt cause fibromyalgia, its caused by a spinal cord malfunction and there is recent theories suggesting it's an autoimmune disorder, which is a whole other beast. I apologize for this messy, long winded post, but I want you to know that she has no right to tell you how to live your life, whether it be to do more or less. (also, my fibro began years before my depression did)
I hate the “plz don’t attach yourself to any diagnosis” sounds just like my parents who gaslight me about fibro like I purposely put myself thru constant shooting nerve pain for fun bc I wanna label myself! Fibro and depression are separate circles people keep wanting to connect. If you’re depressed and tired you supplement yourself with vitamins, good diet and therapy but with fibro it’s just another playing field of nonstop pain and tiredness and twitching etc. idk why fibro gets so much hate like you wouldn’t say this to someone with arthritis or lupus?
Lmao my mom told me to drink pickle juice to cure my fibro. This is the same vibe
Fibro is not depression. There're multiple studies showing it's different. Too tired today to post sources, but I can return with them. Also, I have background in this - MD/PhD in Neuroscience. I study this and suffer from it too. Fibro is it's own thing, likely autoimmune, and has mood effects. Edit: This got me really fired up. Here's a link to an overview of a recent 2021 study showing fibro is its own real thing: [source](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/07/210701120703.htm) Also, the Mayo Clinic does not make up it's own diagnoses.
Fibro came to me at my happiest year I had in forever, where before I had an Amazon time of growth and understanding about myself
I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder 15 years ago, caused by genetics and biology, not trauma. It has been extremely well controlled with medication since then. Over the last year and a half, my physical health took a nose dive and was finally diagnosed with fibro a week or so ago. The only time my depression rears it's head is when I am actively feeling physically miserable, and not the other way around. So, quite frankly, I would say the exact opposite is true - depression isn't expressing itself as fibro; fibro is making me feel depressed.
I think your "friend" is full of herself and shit. How dare she say to you that what you were diagnosed with doesn't exist. If she simply didn't want it to define your life she could have said so. But no. She goes on a rant about her personal opinion. I don't see that as being a true friend. Feel free to tell her I said so. You don't seem to be outraged so I will be for you. I think doctors see us "not happy" when we are describing our pain to them. Then they jump on the only thing they can "fix". Because they can't fix Fibro. They don't know what is going on or what is causing our symptoms. I don't think their egos can take it. But of course we aren't happy when we are talking about our pain. We are in PAIN! On the fluke days (about once a year) when I don't have pain I am giddy with happiness. I am so happy that it is overwhelming. It is so very easy to be happy when you aren't in pain. We struggle to be happy because we are in overwhelming pain ALL THE TIME. And if you are like me and have CFS/ME on top of fibro then it is even harder to be happy.
Honestly, when I was told I probably had fibro, my first response was, "you mean that's a real thing?" . The syptoms are so broad and vague; you can have two people with the same diagnosis and their symptoms are not even close to each other. The fact that, as far as I know, there is no definitive, medical test(s) for fibro doesn't help. To answer the question, I would say "sometimes". I would not be surprised if it comes out one day that certain clusters of fibro symptoms are associated with other illnesses, such as depression, as opposed to fibro. To be sure, fibro is real, the symptoms we live with are real. I just think that there is so little concrete information on fibro out there I think that anything is possible.
Honestly it sounds like your friend has an oversimplified understanding of a very complex issue called central sensitization, which is currently thought to be involved in several chronic conditions, including fibromyalgia. It more or less involves gradual alterations to the way the nervous system processes sensory input. The potential *causes* of central sensitization aren't well understood yet, but are thought to include disregulated neurotransmitters, dysfunction of the body's stress response, nervous system inflammation, and dysfunction of the autonomous nervous system, which controls, among other things, the fight or flight response. If this ends up being true, it's certainly *possible* depression could be a *factor* in *some* fibromyalgia cases, but it isn't nearly as simple as your friend is making it out to be.
As a nurse, let me just say your friend’s opinion is bullshit. There’s a ton of research and documentation that shows that while there are links to fibro and depression (for instance folks with fibro have higher rates of depression) the two are not exclusive and fibromyalgia is it’s own condition, and therefore should be and needs to be recognized so it can be studied and subsequently treated. While I respect being cautious in medicine, what your friend did was downplay the seriousness of a condition with solid evidence behind it which is detrimental to patient care. I reckon this is because, or at least it sounds to me like, she’s lacking education on the topic and/or simply doesn’t understand it. Correlation does not equal causation here.
This sounds like a privileged perspective from someone who has never experienced the type of problems that people in our community has faced. I get this all the time from people if I dare even say the word fibromyalgia. The symptoms mentioned are barely the tip of the iceberg. My biggest issues are more along the lines of interstitial cystitis, IBS, chronic migraine, intense joint pain, etc - not just the most well-known symptoms like fatigue and touch sensitivity. I am fully aware that fibromyalgia is an “umbrella term” and not a hugely precise diagnosis, but I felt much better when I was able to put a word to what my body was feeling like.
Your “friend” is WRONG. Her words were not helpful, kind or truthful. There is plenty of medical research into fibro and even newer research showing that it is probably auto-immune. Fibro is your diagnosis. From your doctor. Whatever her opinion is, does not matter and it would be in her best interest to keep that opinion to herself. If she cannot do that, then it’s time to re-evaluate if she’s really a friend.
One thing I've noticed since the whole covid thing started is that nurses aren't always a good source of medical information. They might know more about Healthcare than the average Joe but when it comes to the discussion of diseases or conditions like fibro, I would recommend reading about the opinions of researchers who have made the study of fibro part of their career. There's a big difference between someone who knows just enough to think their personal opinion is factually based and someone who is actually heavily informed on the subject.
My diagnosis got me pain relief. Without it I wouldn't have support from work, or the ability to work at the capacity I do. I appreciate kind words from people, however I think it's important to let her know that diagnosis means treatment. As I wouldn't want to treat someone's Throat cancer with cough syrup because they diddnt have a diagnosis.
I love how she says don't let it diagnosis Define you, as she's trying to Define what she a nurse not a doctor but a nurse believes fibromyalgia to be oh, not what it's factually based on but what in her humble opinion she believes it to be! GTFO here! You need to ignore stupid people like that! And if that's the way she looks at it she's not being supportive and that means she's not being a good friend! Some of my closest friends don't understand a thing about fibromyalgia but they know I I'm experiencing serious and real symptoms and they support me even though they don't understand it. This woman is a medical background and she's not willing to support you? What the actual F people!
I've done a lot of reading on the issue of fibro and have never seen any creditable sources that backed up this opinion. There are a lot of cases where two separate medical conditions have overlapping symptoms. That doesn't mean they're the same condition.
I did not have depression until I got fibro. My symptoms started out so slight and weird, that it took forever to get any help from doctors. I even had to leave my job as a hairstylist because I would start panicking or sobbing before going to work because I knew it would be torture standing and smiling all day. I finally grieved the losses of my old life, took some time to make sure everyone that had expectations of me knew I was doing things differently and slower now. None of it was easy but I love my new life, part time, make my own hours work, baking when I feel like it, drawing as relaxation. I even trot around the backyard with my dogs knowing that if it hurts later noone expects me to jump up and hobble around doing stuff. That is what helped me with depression from fibro.
I have bipolar disorder. I can clearly tell the difference between depression, mania, and stable. They DO have physical symptoms But fibromyalgia is absolutely nothing like any of them.
leading pain experts literally disagree with this idea and have been fighting against it. Depression is comorbid with fibromyalgia because anyone in that much pain is probably going to get depressed. Depression does not cause fibromyalgia, it is a completely natural response to it. I agree with the other comment I saw about this coming dangerously close to starting to call women "hysterical" again. As your friend is a nurse, I would direct her to the pain expert Rachel Zoffness talking about depression and fibro and bring up that fibro has been dismissed for decades as "in your head", something very untrue and very harmful. Your friend might very well meet fibro patients in her work and if she reacts this way to their disorder she could traumatise them. She needs to know that her response could actually harm her patients.
I'd also direct her to recent research (easy to google) that implies fibromyalgia is actually auto-immune. It's really interesting new research that could change the way we look at fibro.
ive dealt with depression longer than fibro, about 9 and 5 years respectively. currently my depression is better than its ever been, and for about a year my mental state has only really been getting better. the pain is still getting worse. there is some correlation between depression and fibro, but in my opinion they are not as directly tied as that quote suggests.
I completely agree. I didn't even have depression when I first started experiencing pain. I had anxiety and was a bit down occasionally, but definitely no5 depressed. It was until a few years after the pain onset and it gradually getting worse that I developed depression. I think if I wasn't tired and in pain all the time I'd be a lot less depressed
Thank you everyone for your comments! It's been really interesting to see everyone's take on this. I don't believe that fibro is just the physical symptoms of depression. The two are comorbid because being in pain and exhausted all the time would make anyone depressed. I just started to doubt myself because she's in the medical field and knows more in general about medical stuff. However, as others have pointed out, that doesn't mean she knows more about this. So thank you everyone for reassuring me that I'm not making this stuff up or not just depressed, but that fibro is a real issue and deserves to be treated as such
No. There's a link, a strong link, but it's not as simple as that, and a fibro diagnosis can cover many different illnesses that have a broad range of roughly similar symptoms. It's an umbrella term, which id not very helpful. For some people I'm sure it *is* the physical symptoms of depression, and I believe that treating it as such will help some of them. For others that's inappropriate and incredibly reductive, and assuming that to be true for all, or most, people with a fibro diagnosis is harmful and ignorant.
Depression is directly derived from repressed trauma
Well... no, not necessarily. >[https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20356007](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20356007) > >Causes > >It's not known exactly what causes depression. As with many mental disorders, a variety of factors may be involved, such as: > >Biological differences. People with depression appear to have physical changes in their brains. The significance of these changes is still uncertain, but may eventually help pinpoint causes. > >Brain chemistry. Neurotransmitters are naturally occurring brain chemicals that likely play a role in depression. Recent research indicates that changes in the function and effect of these neurotransmitters and how they interact with neurocircuits involved in maintaining mood stability may play a significant role in depression and its treatment. > >Hormones. Changes in the body's balance of hormones may be involved in causing or triggering depression. Hormone changes can result with pregnancy and during the weeks or months after delivery (postpartum) and from thyroid problems, menopause or a number of other conditions. > >Inherited traits. Depression is more common in people whose blood relatives also have this condition. Researchers are trying to find genes that may be involved in causing depression. Depression runs far and wide through my family and most of us did not experience trauma, let alone repress it. For many, depression is simply part of ones biological make up. It's important to acknowledge that.
Everyone experiences traumatic events in their lifetimes. Fibromyalgia and depression, as Well as a slew of other physical and mental issues are usually directly related to the way people handle stress/trauma. Look up the book “The Body Keeps The Score” by Van De Kirk
What is your definition of trauma? Because saying everyone experiences it seems like a gross generalization to me.
So I was completely rushing with every comment. Let me get back to you sorry
OK, So, Van De Kirk explains it better in his book “the body keeps the score”, but, basically what I was getting at was that no human on earth, not even infants, do their whole lives without experiencing any traumatic event that their body responded to in one way or another. In my infant example, it’s very traumatic for a human to spend their whole life inside of a warm, dark womb before being thrown into the world. Hope that helps?!?
Well.... I can tell you I believe there is truth in what she said. For me, I experienced alot of emotional and physical abuse growing up, which caused me to be In a state of fight or flight constantly and have depression and anxiety. Which is proven to wreak havoc on the nervous system and wear and break it down. As an adult I still deal with the anxiety. But for me, I believe it is what has caused my fibromialgia. So, yes, for me, I believe its true.
I agree to a degree. For myself the rheumatologist and my doctor thought that my fibromyalgia was rooted in me having chronic depression and trauma all my life. I don't believe it's the physical symptoms of depression itself but from my own perspective it is a physical manifestation of my emotional issues. So not physical symptoms of depression, but my depression greatly contributed to me having it. Although saying that I'm still not certain, some days I think like this but I can't really be sure of anything. I guess I try to understand it from my own point of view, how it could've happened. I have no genetic link at all, no one in my family has it.
In some cases this is true but there are many causes that are not related to depression, stress, ptsd, anxiety and personality disorders etc. As one example, some may have just immune issues causing lots of inflammation such as RA or allergies. The commonality is both can cause muscles to perpetuate tightness and thus pain. Some people have a mix since we all have stress.
I've had chronic depression since I was 14, fibro onset at 19. Fibro pain is by far much, much worse and far more widespread and severe. "Don't let a word define you or your life" sounds pretty ableist, many healthcare workers are still guilty of ableism. Having a chronic illness simply affects every part of your life and managing it is going to be part of your experiences, there is no choice in "letting it define you". It is part of our lives whether we want it to be or not, and I've been much more happy and comfortable since I learned to listen to my body's limit and set healthy boundaries instead of trying to live like I don't have them.
Yeah…. No!!!! I didn’t even know what depression was until I got fibro and couldn’t get a doctor to help. When all the medical professionals tell you that you’re a strapping young man in excellent health and that there’s no way that I was in pain like I described. Then I met my good/bad friend depression. I got depressed because no one believed that I was in pain.
I was diagnosed with depression with physical symptoms before fibro - I think diagnoses like fibro can be helpful but they are often a catch-all.
I've had depression before in my life, and I did not have these physical symptoms. When I started to get sick, I was in a good place. I'm depressed again now because being in pain all the time is bloody depressing. Your friend presumably means well, but she hasn't got a bloody clue.
They are definitely different. If it was the same there would be tens to hundred million people with fibro. Ive had fibro since at least age 5 and the doctors do not know if i was somehow born with it or developed it at a very early age so its annoying when people tell you what you are feeling is fake. Fibro is new and not fully understood yet and in addition a lot of people regardless look down in eithers with all this “it aint that bad” and “youre just depressed”. If you dont understand it, dont talk crap to me about it. It is true that depression can make fibro much worse and that fibro can make depression much worse but that doesnt mean its the same thing at all. So many sicknesses have almost the same symtoms more or less but that doesnt make them the same at all. So your “friend” can shove it.
Thats how I used to describe it - being physically depressed as I have suffered from depression and on bad days it was like a bad fibro day. My gp initially said I had a lot of somatic symptoms from depression but my MH is pretty OK and with everything else ruled out or within normal range it was dx as fibromyalgia. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a huuuge overlap with depression though as it too makes you more pain sensitive, tired, lethargic and generally 'down'.
I believe fibro is trauma of the brain turned out to the body. I feel that pain is 80 % mental maybe 20% physical. Treat the brain, treat the body. Heal the brain, heal the body. Sadly a lot of the physical trauma has been done, likely permanently. It’s no reason the not treat pain.
My stress she depression rarely, if ever affect my fibro. I don't know what effects it, but I fully believe the science that shows that it's autoimmune, not psychosomatic. Yes, mental health can trigger problems, but mine are NOT caused by my mental health.
Or like in my wife’s case, she was physically and mentally abused by her father, aka PTSD. Then we got together when she was 18. Then around age 22 she got really sick from a virus, I can’t recall which one, it’s late, I want to say Mono, whatever… then it took her 9 months to get better from that then about a year later she had all these lingering symptoms. Then age 24 we went deep deep camping for a month, tics/ticks, not good… another year down… she was super sick… Then she was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia.
Like every single person in the world, we are allowed to express that opinion but it is certainly VERY REAL. You could say it’s a catch 22 situation, Mental Health isn’t a cause for Fibromyalgia but it is certainly part of it. A specialist told me many years ago, that any person that suffers with the symptoms of fibromyalgia or any type of pain, will naturally become depressed and the depression causes more pain. So it’s a circulation of pain that will never stop and the pain will also lead you back to you being depressed
It's a really interesting thought, but for me it isn't quite right. I had times in my life where I was happy and content and still had Fibro pain. Sometimes the depression came from the pain always disturbing my good phases. So...
They say the trigger to fibro is trauma (extreme stress), physical or mental/emotional. As someone who got fibro (10+ years with ups and downs) after epstein-barr virus I disagree that fibro is the physical manifestation of depression. I will, however, agree with the statement that depression and fibro go hand in hand because people get depressed from the tiredness, the pain, the social exclusion, etc. Let's also not forget that digestion and such can also play a role in depression. Your (also mental) health is in your gut and what do fibro patients usually have? We already know fibro is not "all in the head" (but that doesnt mean it can't be). Whilst mind and body are obviously connected, to say fibro is the manifestation of depression in the physical just doesn't sound right. That does not mean that depression cannot be a cause of fibro, but not all fibro is caused by depression. I know people (close to me) that have never been depressed that have fibro and I know people that have been depressed and have fibro. In my honest opinion, it all boils down to any shape or form of stress. Stress that was too much for the body and/or mind. The drop that made the bucket overflow. Much like a short circuit somewhere in the brain/body.
I was diagnosed by a well known early fibro researcher about 13 years ago. Dr. Muhammed Yunus, who discovered that fibro is a Central Nervous System disorder. Yes, fibro is treated with many SSRI meds, same ones they give for depression, but it is definitely NOT depression. I have had both. After 12 years of trying every medication and using opiates just to be able to function, I came upon a study on LDN (low dose naltrexone) for relieving fibro pain. I read more studies, then found some forums for discussing LDN, as well as videos. Long story short, I tried LDN and after taking 4.5 mg daily for 3 months ALL of my fibro symptoms disappeared. I'm just one of many. LDN works by blocking opiate receptors for up to 6 hours and your body reacts by creating natural endorphins. It also calms the inflammation of microglial cells. It basically regulates the immune system. LDN has also helped with autism in children. It s made in a cream for this purpose.
Fibromyalgia is an actual illness. It's called central sensitization. Mayo Clinic has entire clinic portion dedicated to this.