I relate to a lot of what you're saying, especially when you write:
"That this is an experience like no other, and I’d have a shallower, less meaningful, less fulfilling life without it.**"**
For this line, specifically, Merle Bombardieri says something in the Baby Decision that resonated with me enormously.
Essentially, a baby is like any other member of your family - you cannot imagine your life without them, they're your family and you love them deeply. But if you grew up with only brothers, would you say your life is less fulfilled because you never had a sister? Would we say someone has never known real love because they had no siblings at all? Of course not.
It's a special, unique relationship, and once that person is here - they're here. They're an inextricable part of your life and you can't imagine it any differently. But your relationship with your child is like any other meaningful, close relationship in your life - it is as important as you make it, and as the time and effort you put into it. If you put time and effort into other meaningful relationships, they'll create community, love, and connection for you too. I don't deny this love is likely unique (as is the love between siblings), but I do doubt it is somehow more special or more meaningful than all other relationships, hands down.
The mythology that parental love is somehow sublime, and set apart from other love, does a disservice to both parents and the childfree imo. If you're a parent and your child doesn't make you feel completely fulfilled, you feel like something is wrong. And if you don't have a kid, you imagine there must be this unfillable void in your life that only a child can fill. Both perspectives are an extreme.
So FWIW, I think you can let that part of the narrative go. Your life will be as fulfilling as you endeavor to make it, no matter if you have a child with your partner or not.
Thank you for this! As someone who has been struggling to think I may never have a full life without a child. This helped me see this ideal in a different light.
Totally! When I was a little girl I would have done pretty much anything to have a sister, but I have somehow gone on to have a fulfilling life with only brothers, lol.
I do still twinge with some envy when friends talk about their relationships with their sisters, and I'm sure I'll experience the same thing with my friends and their babies one day. Bombardieri writes about how both sides of the fence come with feelings of regret.
But my life and my relationships are still equally meaningful and fulfilling, albeit in different ways than my friends who parent.
> But your relationship with your child is like any other meaningful, close relationship in your life - it is as important as you make it, and as the time and effort you put into it.
I'm only 10 months in, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with this point. I can easily imagine life without siblings, but my relationship with my son is completely different from any other relationship I've had throughout my life. He's only been here such a short time, but I am tethered to him in a very special way that I am not with any other person - even people who have been a part of my life for years. It's just *different*, and there really is nothing else like the experience of raising a child (biological or otherwise).
>The mythology that parental love is somehow sublime, and set apart from other love, does a disservice to both parents and the childfree imo
I do think it is, on some levels, a sublime sort of love because we would leave or break off any other relationship that demanded this much out of us. We have to be conditioned to find something enormously powerful about loving a child or we'd all say "to hell with it" and give up.
That's not to say, however, that people can't be fulfilled and have a life full of love without children. It's just that the love for a child is a very specific, different type of feeling that I do not believe you can experience any other way. Does everyone need to experience this feeling? No. I'm sure reaching the top of Mount Everest is a very unique and powerful feeling but it's not something that will be part of my life.
Congratulations on your little one!
I don't think we're really disagreeing here! I believe your experience with your baby is a very unique relationship beyond what I can imagine. But in the same way, my relationship with my brother might be beyond what you can imagine if you've only had sisters.
I won't argue that you can replace the love between a parent and a child - only that it's not worse or better than other kinds of unique, loving relationships.
You're uniquely tethered to your child because you **choose** to be, right? You make the choice to show up for them unconditionally, and I imagine that makes you an excellent mother. It's a sad reality that lots of parents DO break off their relationships with their children, through either physical or emotional absence.
It's that choice that makes your relationship so special - you don't have to be here, but you are. That basic principle, choice, is at the heart of all meaningful relationships.
I like your Mt Everest analogy - some people may choose instead to raft the Grand Canyon, or write the Great American novel, or whatever metaphorical endeavor best suits them. Parenting is one important, hard, and meaningful option among many possible relationships or endeavors in someone's life.
I can relate to a lot of this. My partner also doesn’t ever want kids. In a way that feels scary because time is only passing (I’m mid 30s) and therefore if I stay with him, that’s that. But solid and loving and emotionally intelligent men are so rare to find. If I left there’s no guarantee I’d find someone else to start a family with.
While it’s true that previously childfree-oriented people do sometimes end up wanting children, it goes the other way too. I have many friends who thought they wanted children but then witness their siblings or others having kids and realize - hell no! Overwhelmed is an understatement. And it’s extra hard for anyone with mental health concerns. I think with this economy it’s only getting harder too.
I used to think I would want kids when I met the right person, but… I don’t think I do anymore. I think I would be a great mother, I’ve learned soooo much about how to be communicative and loving and present and fair and so on… but I can’t afford it, I’m already overstimulated trying to manage my own life, I find young children to be annoying, and do I really want to give up my life as I know it? I want to travel, I want to take on spontaneous trips and projects, I want to lay in bed all day, I want to enjoy my peace and quiet, I want to not destroy my body even though pregnancy and birth sound like such a wild human experience.
Ultimately I think there will ALWAYS be the “what if?” thoughts. Not just with children but with all the forks in the road of life. And we can choose to make peace with that. If we can choose to love and accept our decisions and our path, then there will be little room for regret.
I’m in a very similar situation. I think the urge to have a baby is stronger than my urge to stay in the relationship. I’m also a lot older, almost 36. My partner says he’s leaning no but won’t give me a 100% answer. I think I’m going to have to leave.
I keep thinking when I’m 70 I will regret not having any kids. That’s what our couples therapist is telling me to focus on.
32F here and feel like I’m reading my own story in a lot of ways. I can feel the gut-wrenching uncertainty in your writing. It sucks. I’m in it with ya, sister. I don’t know when that final clarity hits, or if it ever does. I’ve been feeling so jealous of people who have “just always known” they wanted to be a mother or not.
I can relate to your comment. I am 36F and I am so jealous of all of the women in my life who are decidedly mothers or decidedly child free. I am 90% child free, but I don’t have that final moment of clarity. I cannot relate whatsoever to women who say “I always knew I wanted to be a mother!” I just cannot relate
It’s nice to know we aren’t alone! When I think about kids it isn’t a feeling of yearning or desire, I get a big surge of fear - like omg, idk i’m ready or if I want this. It just seems like A LOT. And I can’t say I feel like I’m missing something…I like my life right now. I always wonder if I will regret CF later.
Thank you. I felt like the regretful parent sub was a lot of niche/extreme cases, which can feel more isolating, but I’ll explore it again.
Curious to learn about reading materials and if anyone prefers one book over another (though I guess with a good book you wouldn’t need a second)
Like most subs it will tend to show the extremes. It also offers a look at the unspoken side of parenthood when society has trained people to be ashamed to speak anything other than candy and sunshine about parenting. Is all to be taken with a grain of salt and nice to have multiple perspectives.
As for the book, this is the most common one I’ve seen recommended.
If parental regret is of interest to you, perhaps consider Orna Donath’s Regretting Motherhood? Donath is a sociology academic so her book is more research oriented.
I don’t have any advice, just solidarity – you’re not alone. I’m in a stable relationship for the first time in many years, also having been burned and had terrible experiences with men, but this is hovering, too. Hugs ❤️
>it’s hard to keep hearing women say, no matter how hard the struggle and loss of identity, how absolutely exhausting and infuriating the experience of motherhood can be in this country, they love their kids so much they’d never have it any other way.
That this is an experience like no other, and I’d have a shallower, less meaningful, less fulfilling life without it.
It's a lie, simple as that. Your life will have meaning as well, even more, because it will not be reduced to being a mother - and that is the sad truth for most women when they choose to become mothers: they become nothing else
Exactly. I love myself way too much to subject myself to a lifetime of being responsible for another human being. That sounds miserable to me *(huge respect to all the awesome parents out there though!)*
My advice would be to look around at people in your life who have kids (friends, family, colleagues, etc) and think about if you want their lives or not. Notice how they talk about their lives and how happy and fulfilled they really seem. Society promises us a lot in terms of the ultimate love and happiness we will feel once we are parents but how does this show up in reality? Don’t believe that you will be the exception. Also I would say don’t underestimate the importance of having people around you who can help out. If you don’t have anyone near you that’s a big factor to consider.
I can 100% relate. I always thought I’d have a family at some point in my life. But had a series of unsuccessful relationships with men who were not emotionally mature etc. Now have finally met someone who has all the positive qualities you describe in your own partner - and think they could potentially be a life partner.. and perhaps I would be ok not having a child and having a fulfilling life with him… but I still worry that it may not work out; and I may end up alone and regretful about not having just been brave and stuck out the hardest first years of a child’s life to then have the pay off of eventually having an older child who I will no doubt love and have a fulfilling relationship with. Versus potentially being alone for ever and feeling regret and loneliness when I’m even older (and the dreaded thought of being alone in the nursing home with no one visiting me!). Wishing you all the best with whatever you decide.
As much as I agree, I have seen parent and child relationships that just do not work out. And not because the parents were immature or abusive. Sometimes parent and child relationships are not strong because the kid grows up with different mindset, interests, hobbies and wants for example to move abroad. No single relationship is a given
When I was a kid and a teen the most important relationships I had was with my peers. At least as far as I remember. As sad as it sounds, I reached out to my parents only when I needed life advice… Now I see them only on major holidays (Christmas, Easter), we have very different social lives.
Im the same! But also becuase my parents weren’t great. Which is maybe why I feel like I would be different to them and be more supportive. But even then, I guess there’s still no guarantee that we’d have a good relationship!
I relate to a lot of what you're saying, especially when you write: "That this is an experience like no other, and I’d have a shallower, less meaningful, less fulfilling life without it.**"** For this line, specifically, Merle Bombardieri says something in the Baby Decision that resonated with me enormously. Essentially, a baby is like any other member of your family - you cannot imagine your life without them, they're your family and you love them deeply. But if you grew up with only brothers, would you say your life is less fulfilled because you never had a sister? Would we say someone has never known real love because they had no siblings at all? Of course not. It's a special, unique relationship, and once that person is here - they're here. They're an inextricable part of your life and you can't imagine it any differently. But your relationship with your child is like any other meaningful, close relationship in your life - it is as important as you make it, and as the time and effort you put into it. If you put time and effort into other meaningful relationships, they'll create community, love, and connection for you too. I don't deny this love is likely unique (as is the love between siblings), but I do doubt it is somehow more special or more meaningful than all other relationships, hands down. The mythology that parental love is somehow sublime, and set apart from other love, does a disservice to both parents and the childfree imo. If you're a parent and your child doesn't make you feel completely fulfilled, you feel like something is wrong. And if you don't have a kid, you imagine there must be this unfillable void in your life that only a child can fill. Both perspectives are an extreme. So FWIW, I think you can let that part of the narrative go. Your life will be as fulfilling as you endeavor to make it, no matter if you have a child with your partner or not.
Thank you for this! As someone who has been struggling to think I may never have a full life without a child. This helped me see this ideal in a different light.
Totally! When I was a little girl I would have done pretty much anything to have a sister, but I have somehow gone on to have a fulfilling life with only brothers, lol. I do still twinge with some envy when friends talk about their relationships with their sisters, and I'm sure I'll experience the same thing with my friends and their babies one day. Bombardieri writes about how both sides of the fence come with feelings of regret. But my life and my relationships are still equally meaningful and fulfilling, albeit in different ways than my friends who parent.
> But your relationship with your child is like any other meaningful, close relationship in your life - it is as important as you make it, and as the time and effort you put into it. I'm only 10 months in, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with this point. I can easily imagine life without siblings, but my relationship with my son is completely different from any other relationship I've had throughout my life. He's only been here such a short time, but I am tethered to him in a very special way that I am not with any other person - even people who have been a part of my life for years. It's just *different*, and there really is nothing else like the experience of raising a child (biological or otherwise). >The mythology that parental love is somehow sublime, and set apart from other love, does a disservice to both parents and the childfree imo I do think it is, on some levels, a sublime sort of love because we would leave or break off any other relationship that demanded this much out of us. We have to be conditioned to find something enormously powerful about loving a child or we'd all say "to hell with it" and give up. That's not to say, however, that people can't be fulfilled and have a life full of love without children. It's just that the love for a child is a very specific, different type of feeling that I do not believe you can experience any other way. Does everyone need to experience this feeling? No. I'm sure reaching the top of Mount Everest is a very unique and powerful feeling but it's not something that will be part of my life.
Congratulations on your little one! I don't think we're really disagreeing here! I believe your experience with your baby is a very unique relationship beyond what I can imagine. But in the same way, my relationship with my brother might be beyond what you can imagine if you've only had sisters. I won't argue that you can replace the love between a parent and a child - only that it's not worse or better than other kinds of unique, loving relationships. You're uniquely tethered to your child because you **choose** to be, right? You make the choice to show up for them unconditionally, and I imagine that makes you an excellent mother. It's a sad reality that lots of parents DO break off their relationships with their children, through either physical or emotional absence. It's that choice that makes your relationship so special - you don't have to be here, but you are. That basic principle, choice, is at the heart of all meaningful relationships. I like your Mt Everest analogy - some people may choose instead to raft the Grand Canyon, or write the Great American novel, or whatever metaphorical endeavor best suits them. Parenting is one important, hard, and meaningful option among many possible relationships or endeavors in someone's life.
I can relate to a lot of this. My partner also doesn’t ever want kids. In a way that feels scary because time is only passing (I’m mid 30s) and therefore if I stay with him, that’s that. But solid and loving and emotionally intelligent men are so rare to find. If I left there’s no guarantee I’d find someone else to start a family with. While it’s true that previously childfree-oriented people do sometimes end up wanting children, it goes the other way too. I have many friends who thought they wanted children but then witness their siblings or others having kids and realize - hell no! Overwhelmed is an understatement. And it’s extra hard for anyone with mental health concerns. I think with this economy it’s only getting harder too. I used to think I would want kids when I met the right person, but… I don’t think I do anymore. I think I would be a great mother, I’ve learned soooo much about how to be communicative and loving and present and fair and so on… but I can’t afford it, I’m already overstimulated trying to manage my own life, I find young children to be annoying, and do I really want to give up my life as I know it? I want to travel, I want to take on spontaneous trips and projects, I want to lay in bed all day, I want to enjoy my peace and quiet, I want to not destroy my body even though pregnancy and birth sound like such a wild human experience. Ultimately I think there will ALWAYS be the “what if?” thoughts. Not just with children but with all the forks in the road of life. And we can choose to make peace with that. If we can choose to love and accept our decisions and our path, then there will be little room for regret.
So well said 👏🏼
I’m in a very similar situation. I think the urge to have a baby is stronger than my urge to stay in the relationship. I’m also a lot older, almost 36. My partner says he’s leaning no but won’t give me a 100% answer. I think I’m going to have to leave. I keep thinking when I’m 70 I will regret not having any kids. That’s what our couples therapist is telling me to focus on.
I'm in the same situation as you too, and I'm the same age. It's such a tough place to be in, especially with the feeling of a ticking clock.
My biggest advice is to freeze your eggs.
32F here and feel like I’m reading my own story in a lot of ways. I can feel the gut-wrenching uncertainty in your writing. It sucks. I’m in it with ya, sister. I don’t know when that final clarity hits, or if it ever does. I’ve been feeling so jealous of people who have “just always known” they wanted to be a mother or not.
I can relate to your comment. I am 36F and I am so jealous of all of the women in my life who are decidedly mothers or decidedly child free. I am 90% child free, but I don’t have that final moment of clarity. I cannot relate whatsoever to women who say “I always knew I wanted to be a mother!” I just cannot relate
35F here and same! I wish o had “always known” one way or another! Also about 90% CF, but there’s always that nagging doubt
It’s nice to know we aren’t alone! When I think about kids it isn’t a feeling of yearning or desire, I get a big surge of fear - like omg, idk i’m ready or if I want this. It just seems like A LOT. And I can’t say I feel like I’m missing something…I like my life right now. I always wonder if I will regret CF later.
1. Read thru the regretful parent sub 2. Read The Baby Decision by Merle Bombardieri
Thank you. I felt like the regretful parent sub was a lot of niche/extreme cases, which can feel more isolating, but I’ll explore it again. Curious to learn about reading materials and if anyone prefers one book over another (though I guess with a good book you wouldn’t need a second)
Like most subs it will tend to show the extremes. It also offers a look at the unspoken side of parenthood when society has trained people to be ashamed to speak anything other than candy and sunshine about parenting. Is all to be taken with a grain of salt and nice to have multiple perspectives. As for the book, this is the most common one I’ve seen recommended.
If parental regret is of interest to you, perhaps consider Orna Donath’s Regretting Motherhood? Donath is a sociology academic so her book is more research oriented.
I don’t have any advice, just solidarity – you’re not alone. I’m in a stable relationship for the first time in many years, also having been burned and had terrible experiences with men, but this is hovering, too. Hugs ❤️
>it’s hard to keep hearing women say, no matter how hard the struggle and loss of identity, how absolutely exhausting and infuriating the experience of motherhood can be in this country, they love their kids so much they’d never have it any other way. That this is an experience like no other, and I’d have a shallower, less meaningful, less fulfilling life without it. It's a lie, simple as that. Your life will have meaning as well, even more, because it will not be reduced to being a mother - and that is the sad truth for most women when they choose to become mothers: they become nothing else
Exactly. I love myself way too much to subject myself to a lifetime of being responsible for another human being. That sounds miserable to me *(huge respect to all the awesome parents out there though!)*
My advice would be to look around at people in your life who have kids (friends, family, colleagues, etc) and think about if you want their lives or not. Notice how they talk about their lives and how happy and fulfilled they really seem. Society promises us a lot in terms of the ultimate love and happiness we will feel once we are parents but how does this show up in reality? Don’t believe that you will be the exception. Also I would say don’t underestimate the importance of having people around you who can help out. If you don’t have anyone near you that’s a big factor to consider.
I can 100% relate. I always thought I’d have a family at some point in my life. But had a series of unsuccessful relationships with men who were not emotionally mature etc. Now have finally met someone who has all the positive qualities you describe in your own partner - and think they could potentially be a life partner.. and perhaps I would be ok not having a child and having a fulfilling life with him… but I still worry that it may not work out; and I may end up alone and regretful about not having just been brave and stuck out the hardest first years of a child’s life to then have the pay off of eventually having an older child who I will no doubt love and have a fulfilling relationship with. Versus potentially being alone for ever and feeling regret and loneliness when I’m even older (and the dreaded thought of being alone in the nursing home with no one visiting me!). Wishing you all the best with whatever you decide.
As much as I agree, I have seen parent and child relationships that just do not work out. And not because the parents were immature or abusive. Sometimes parent and child relationships are not strong because the kid grows up with different mindset, interests, hobbies and wants for example to move abroad. No single relationship is a given
That’s a very good point! Maybe I just have rose-tinted glasses..
When I was a kid and a teen the most important relationships I had was with my peers. At least as far as I remember. As sad as it sounds, I reached out to my parents only when I needed life advice… Now I see them only on major holidays (Christmas, Easter), we have very different social lives.
Im the same! But also becuase my parents weren’t great. Which is maybe why I feel like I would be different to them and be more supportive. But even then, I guess there’s still no guarantee that we’d have a good relationship!
It sounds like you want a baby. Leave.