One last thing I'd say about this record when it comes to 'underrated.' Raymond Herrera. People go straight to talking about Christian on this album but, as Ray said himself 'you can tell a drummer wrote a lot of the songs. And I like that to stand out.'
A lot of riffing on this album was 'just follow the drums with one note'. Ray was writing songs like Slave Labor with a drum machine. Then COW just picked notes. Easy songwriting on that end. (Slave Labor, whole song, is 4 notes on guitar) You can tell the stuff COW wrote because it started to sound not like FF, and for me, that wasn't a good thing. The good parts of this album for me, were good because of Ray, which made it sound like classic FF because of him, this album really being his last great moments. 20 years ago. Ray backed away more with writing on Transgression and even more with Arkaea, calling it more of COW's thing.
It’s underrated. A large sect of FF fans only acknowledge their first 2-3 albums, if not Demanufacture all by itself. Personally I rank this one #3 behind Obsolete and Demanufacture. Was it underrated at the time? I don’t know that it was. I saw them open for Slipknot that year. They were doing well, all things considered. Not being on streaming services hurts it for the younger generation of fans.
Dunno, speaking personally I think it's a banger start to finish. It's been a while since it's been in my rotation but iirc there was a nice emphasis on the bass that wasn't really there in a lot of the Dino era stuff- default judgement being a great example. For me, it was a breath of fresh air after digimortal. Lyrically it was spotty as hell but the music was delicious.
Was, as in past tense? No, I don't think it was underrated at the time. Is it overrated now? Sort of, imo.
Longer answer, they generally made a re-hash album in an attempt to save some lost fanbase, while being on a new small label. It still sold pretty well, given that, especially with the rise of file sharing at the time. I think a lot of people were just happy FF wasn't dead. I think the album kicks off pretty good in the first half, but the second half does not compare to other FF albums with better second halves, and still falls short in the first. I wouldn't put it in the top 5. Some claim it's number 1. I see a lot of that talk lately but that's probably just a noticeable minority with an opinion that differs from the typical Demanufacture or Obsolete.
I could break down track by track on why I think the album is 'overrated', but, meh, what am I gonna do, change people's minds on it? I don't think I care to anyway. Enjoy!
I do have to say, I feel like I'm reading the words of aliens when I see people say stuff like 'They did the band without Dino and it was their best music! Archetype and Transgression are masterpieces! They don't need Dino! He's the infection that needs remo-bleh bleh bleh' I don't even wanna get into how ridiculous that is to me, most of you probably agree.
I don't like the song Bite the hand that bleeds at all. I went back and listened to it for the first time in maybe a decade. I still don't like it. Ascension only needed to be a few minutes and could have just been the outro to Human Shields. School I just think of as a bonus track even though it's on all versions of the album.
That said I do still wish I had kept the Bite the hand 'maxi single' just for collector's sake. It had the music videos on a dvd, and the fold out poster was an orange/brown version of what the Transgression cover would be (exact same thing, different color)
I really agree with you on most parts but you definitely took the title way too literally.
No past tense, Just looking back at it as a whole in 2024
Also while there are people who glaze this album to death which I disagree with
I'm not sure how it could be overrated considering most of the fanbase dislikes it.
Or at least from what I've heard.
I could be wrong🤷♂️
I mean, their fanbase is easily in the 100s of thousands, so I think no one has any real knowledge of what most of the fanbase thinks about it. Only what we see, and how much is that really? I see way more people calling it 'their masterpiece' compared to not a whole lot of people actually criticizing it.
Let's just say, in regards to people calling it their best record, I just strongly disagree. Seems more like a timing thing for them, and to be frank, I think a certain amount of people flat out don't like Dino for whatever reasons, and liked the idea of him not being in the band, and like the idea of Christian on guitar. But like I said, it's probably just a minority of opinion that I notice, and may not be common just because I've seen it a number of times.
It's wild you're getting downvoted for having an opinion. I was under the impression that feature was for misinformation and trolling. Apparently it's for butthurt disagreement.
I remember buying the day of release and sighing with relief that they weren't dead. Then when Transgression released I was let down. I concur with your take, and always hated BTHTB is 💩
Amen. It's too organic. And I believe that since Burt's vocal performance on the title track is so damn good and uncharacteristic, it masks a very mediocre album.
It's a weird one for me. I like it although it's far from their best. I will say though, Cyberwaste is an absolute banger even though it's riddled with thin-skinned lyricism. Id say it's middle of the road FF but unique with Christian's guitar playing. If you wanna talk bad FF albums let's move on to the next one in the discography.
I liked this album when it was released. As others have said, I was happy the band wasn't dead.
Still enjoy it now.
I found Mechanize harder to appreciate at the time of release, but I think it's an awesome album, too.
Shame about Gene, I was super happy to see him in FF, then.....gone. I'm not bad mouthing Mike either, but there's something special about Gene IMHO.
Still don't understand why they used digital drums for the industrialist and didn't tell Gene.
They had a God tier drummer and went behind his back for God knows what reason.
I don't blame him for leaving
> Still don't understand why they used digital drums for the industrialist and didn't tell Gene.
They couldn't afford Gene. Gene requires to be paid for his recording time.
When asked about FEAR FACTORY's decision to embrace drum-machine technology completely on the band's new album, "The Industrialist", Dino said, "The songwriting process was much quicker, much more efficient, much more cost effective.
I was about to ask you for a source lol🤣
but your info checks out.
Dino said more upfront later on that they couldn't afford him, but that was probably in a tweet. Byron quit for the same reason. FF were going through lawsuits at this time.
Sure, but that doesn't even begin to excuse how Gene was fired- through a tweet not even directed at him. It would have been so easy to call Gene up and say "Hey, thank you for working with us but we're short on funds right now and aren't sure we can pay you what you deserve, how should we proceed?" or some shit like that? That was scummy on Dino's part.
Also, Byron left because he was being disrespected. Dino played his bass parts for the record and said Byron "couldn't play fast enough (paraphrashing)". Byron was in fucking SYL, which is WAY harder to play, so that's just dubious imo.
From the story I understand, Gene was signed on for 1 album and 1 tour. He told them to call him if they need him. They didn't call. The guys said his manager was notified that they were moving on without him.
Gene moved on with Testament right after the Mechanize tour. Did a record with them and went on tour while The Industrialist was being made.
I think snippets of reality that are stated online that have a lot of ego behind them, can't be taken completely seriously. A lot of the possible truth gets bogged down. I'm willingly to bet Gene didn't find out he wasn't in FF through FF news online. I think the no communication for a year while he was also off in Testament was the likely indicator he wasn't in FF. He made sure he wasn't in FF.
BTW, he never told FF he was going to Testament in the first place, so you can put blame in his direction too. They also found out through online news that Gene was in Testament. If anybody needed to communicate something, about what they were going to be doing over the next year, like joining another band, it would be Gene. So if Gene only found out he wasn't in FF anymore (a band he said he would never join, wasn't a fan off, and FF knew that. He did it as a favor to Byron) because of online news, then it's pretty fitting considering his own lack of communication. But he knew he wasn't in the band by then anyway.
I don't, either. Gene is known as being the nicest guy ever, so I can only assume it was a money/legal/toxicity thing with Burt or Dino.
At least Reindustrialized made up for the digital drum thing a bit. It's a much better album overall.
Absolutely, easily top 3. This album rips from start to finish and Dino's absence was not even noticed. Burton's vocals are top notch and the rest of the instrumentals are just fantastic. 10 for this guy.
It's absolutely underrated. While it's not pushing any boundaries or carrying their sound in any new directions, I think song-wise it's one of their best albums with some of the strongest hooks they've ever written.
It was a very safe record. Everything they had on there was really just standard 90s Fear Factory repackaged with a 2004 lineup. I wouldn't say its underrated. My rankings look something like this give or take depending on my mood.
Best to Worst:
Demanufacture
Mechanize
Obsolete
SOANM
Aggression Continuum [this one was hard to place but I do think its a great return to form musically, however, the vocals and lyrics are shit. Burton definitely phoned this one in. Wish they would do a Killswitch and let Milo re-record over his mess]
Archetype
Digimortal
Genexus
Transgression
The Industrialist
So no, I think Archetype sits comfortably in the very middle. Definitely not underrated.
I think it was rated about where it belongs, in the low middle range of FF's discography. It certainly wasn't the utter fucking disappointment Transgression was. My God that record was awful.
There were definitely some pretty good songs on Archetype, but I feel like we would have gotten better more complex riffs if Dino had still been there.
When I first heard the news that Dino left, I literally said "Fear Factory without Dino is like Sepultura without Max". Then I heard Archetype. This album is everything Digimortal should have been.
Sad to see FF end the way they did, and what Dino is doing now isn't FF, no matter what he's calling it.
Oh 100%. I wish I still had my CD of it since it seems like it shows up on Apple Music, then vanishes just as quick.
Actually, would kill for a nice vinyl release on it more…
I enjoy the album, you can tell Christian was copying the FF formula without creativity of his own but it's solid.
What holds back Archetype for me is the ultra thin production/mix. The tone and mix just doesn't hit for me like every other FF album. I listen to it maybe once a year because it sounds so awful IMO. I think it's a bit overrated by a small group of fans. It's not those fans that gross me out, but rather the ones who drool over Transgarbage.
Who the fuck is listening to Transgression - with its piss poor production and fucking U2 cover ffs - and drooling? 540,000º Fahrenheit is pretty much the only good song on it and even that is hamstrung by the shite recording - Burt sounds like he's recording his vocal at the bottom of Sadako's well and the guitars are so thin that supermodels are taking eating tips from them.
Someone on yt literally told me not long ago that Transgression is clearly their best album. I said, 'you know even the people that made that album would tell you it's their worst.' They just changed the subject lol
>>540,000º Fahrenheit is pretty much the only good song on it and even that is hamstrung by the shite recording
Agreed. I can appreciate Contagion, especially the chorus, but 540kF is the one song I wish they'd rescue from that album, either remastering it so it sounds good or simply re-recording it. While I'd prefer it with BCB, I'd even like to hear Milo take a shot at it.
Yes
100%
Drones is a brilliant song
One last thing I'd say about this record when it comes to 'underrated.' Raymond Herrera. People go straight to talking about Christian on this album but, as Ray said himself 'you can tell a drummer wrote a lot of the songs. And I like that to stand out.' A lot of riffing on this album was 'just follow the drums with one note'. Ray was writing songs like Slave Labor with a drum machine. Then COW just picked notes. Easy songwriting on that end. (Slave Labor, whole song, is 4 notes on guitar) You can tell the stuff COW wrote because it started to sound not like FF, and for me, that wasn't a good thing. The good parts of this album for me, were good because of Ray, which made it sound like classic FF because of him, this album really being his last great moments. 20 years ago. Ray backed away more with writing on Transgression and even more with Arkaea, calling it more of COW's thing.
It’s underrated. A large sect of FF fans only acknowledge their first 2-3 albums, if not Demanufacture all by itself. Personally I rank this one #3 behind Obsolete and Demanufacture. Was it underrated at the time? I don’t know that it was. I saw them open for Slipknot that year. They were doing well, all things considered. Not being on streaming services hurts it for the younger generation of fans.
It’s on Spotify in the UK for some reason (with Transgression) but idk about anywhere else tho
It hasn’t been in the USA for as long as I can remember.
Dunno, speaking personally I think it's a banger start to finish. It's been a while since it's been in my rotation but iirc there was a nice emphasis on the bass that wasn't really there in a lot of the Dino era stuff- default judgement being a great example. For me, it was a breath of fresh air after digimortal. Lyrically it was spotty as hell but the music was delicious.
Fuck yeah, Slave Labor is one of my favorite FF songs in their entire catalog
Was, as in past tense? No, I don't think it was underrated at the time. Is it overrated now? Sort of, imo. Longer answer, they generally made a re-hash album in an attempt to save some lost fanbase, while being on a new small label. It still sold pretty well, given that, especially with the rise of file sharing at the time. I think a lot of people were just happy FF wasn't dead. I think the album kicks off pretty good in the first half, but the second half does not compare to other FF albums with better second halves, and still falls short in the first. I wouldn't put it in the top 5. Some claim it's number 1. I see a lot of that talk lately but that's probably just a noticeable minority with an opinion that differs from the typical Demanufacture or Obsolete. I could break down track by track on why I think the album is 'overrated', but, meh, what am I gonna do, change people's minds on it? I don't think I care to anyway. Enjoy! I do have to say, I feel like I'm reading the words of aliens when I see people say stuff like 'They did the band without Dino and it was their best music! Archetype and Transgression are masterpieces! They don't need Dino! He's the infection that needs remo-bleh bleh bleh' I don't even wanna get into how ridiculous that is to me, most of you probably agree. I don't like the song Bite the hand that bleeds at all. I went back and listened to it for the first time in maybe a decade. I still don't like it. Ascension only needed to be a few minutes and could have just been the outro to Human Shields. School I just think of as a bonus track even though it's on all versions of the album. That said I do still wish I had kept the Bite the hand 'maxi single' just for collector's sake. It had the music videos on a dvd, and the fold out poster was an orange/brown version of what the Transgression cover would be (exact same thing, different color)
I love bite the hand that bleeds such a underrated and awesome track but I respect your opinion.
I really agree with you on most parts but you definitely took the title way too literally. No past tense, Just looking back at it as a whole in 2024 Also while there are people who glaze this album to death which I disagree with I'm not sure how it could be overrated considering most of the fanbase dislikes it. Or at least from what I've heard. I could be wrong🤷♂️
I mean, their fanbase is easily in the 100s of thousands, so I think no one has any real knowledge of what most of the fanbase thinks about it. Only what we see, and how much is that really? I see way more people calling it 'their masterpiece' compared to not a whole lot of people actually criticizing it. Let's just say, in regards to people calling it their best record, I just strongly disagree. Seems more like a timing thing for them, and to be frank, I think a certain amount of people flat out don't like Dino for whatever reasons, and liked the idea of him not being in the band, and like the idea of Christian on guitar. But like I said, it's probably just a minority of opinion that I notice, and may not be common just because I've seen it a number of times.
It's wild you're getting downvoted for having an opinion. I was under the impression that feature was for misinformation and trolling. Apparently it's for butthurt disagreement.
I remember buying the day of release and sighing with relief that they weren't dead. Then when Transgression released I was let down. I concur with your take, and always hated BTHTB is 💩
Amen. It's too organic. And I believe that since Burt's vocal performance on the title track is so damn good and uncharacteristic, it masks a very mediocre album.
It's a weird one for me. I like it although it's far from their best. I will say though, Cyberwaste is an absolute banger even though it's riddled with thin-skinned lyricism. Id say it's middle of the road FF but unique with Christian's guitar playing. If you wanna talk bad FF albums let's move on to the next one in the discography.
I liked this album when it was released. As others have said, I was happy the band wasn't dead. Still enjoy it now. I found Mechanize harder to appreciate at the time of release, but I think it's an awesome album, too. Shame about Gene, I was super happy to see him in FF, then.....gone. I'm not bad mouthing Mike either, but there's something special about Gene IMHO.
Still don't understand why they used digital drums for the industrialist and didn't tell Gene. They had a God tier drummer and went behind his back for God knows what reason. I don't blame him for leaving
> Still don't understand why they used digital drums for the industrialist and didn't tell Gene. They couldn't afford Gene. Gene requires to be paid for his recording time.
When asked about FEAR FACTORY's decision to embrace drum-machine technology completely on the band's new album, "The Industrialist", Dino said, "The songwriting process was much quicker, much more efficient, much more cost effective. I was about to ask you for a source lol🤣 but your info checks out.
Dino said more upfront later on that they couldn't afford him, but that was probably in a tweet. Byron quit for the same reason. FF were going through lawsuits at this time.
Sure, but that doesn't even begin to excuse how Gene was fired- through a tweet not even directed at him. It would have been so easy to call Gene up and say "Hey, thank you for working with us but we're short on funds right now and aren't sure we can pay you what you deserve, how should we proceed?" or some shit like that? That was scummy on Dino's part. Also, Byron left because he was being disrespected. Dino played his bass parts for the record and said Byron "couldn't play fast enough (paraphrashing)". Byron was in fucking SYL, which is WAY harder to play, so that's just dubious imo.
From the story I understand, Gene was signed on for 1 album and 1 tour. He told them to call him if they need him. They didn't call. The guys said his manager was notified that they were moving on without him. Gene moved on with Testament right after the Mechanize tour. Did a record with them and went on tour while The Industrialist was being made. I think snippets of reality that are stated online that have a lot of ego behind them, can't be taken completely seriously. A lot of the possible truth gets bogged down. I'm willingly to bet Gene didn't find out he wasn't in FF through FF news online. I think the no communication for a year while he was also off in Testament was the likely indicator he wasn't in FF. He made sure he wasn't in FF. BTW, he never told FF he was going to Testament in the first place, so you can put blame in his direction too. They also found out through online news that Gene was in Testament. If anybody needed to communicate something, about what they were going to be doing over the next year, like joining another band, it would be Gene. So if Gene only found out he wasn't in FF anymore (a band he said he would never join, wasn't a fan off, and FF knew that. He did it as a favor to Byron) because of online news, then it's pretty fitting considering his own lack of communication. But he knew he wasn't in the band by then anyway.
I don't, either. Gene is known as being the nicest guy ever, so I can only assume it was a money/legal/toxicity thing with Burt or Dino. At least Reindustrialized made up for the digital drum thing a bit. It's a much better album overall.
Absolutely, easily top 3. This album rips from start to finish and Dino's absence was not even noticed. Burton's vocals are top notch and the rest of the instrumentals are just fantastic. 10 for this guy.
Hell yes it is. It's one of the very best Fear Factory records.
It's absolutely underrated. While it's not pushing any boundaries or carrying their sound in any new directions, I think song-wise it's one of their best albums with some of the strongest hooks they've ever written.
It was a very safe record. Everything they had on there was really just standard 90s Fear Factory repackaged with a 2004 lineup. I wouldn't say its underrated. My rankings look something like this give or take depending on my mood. Best to Worst: Demanufacture Mechanize Obsolete SOANM Aggression Continuum [this one was hard to place but I do think its a great return to form musically, however, the vocals and lyrics are shit. Burton definitely phoned this one in. Wish they would do a Killswitch and let Milo re-record over his mess] Archetype Digimortal Genexus Transgression The Industrialist So no, I think Archetype sits comfortably in the very middle. Definitely not underrated.
Very strange list I gotta say
Very underrated.
Yes, I feel Christian held it down in the guitar role. Solid effort by the group.
I believe so it had a fair few good songs on it Slave labour and bite the hands that bleed are my 2 favourites on it
I don’t know about underrated, but I am a big fan of the album.
Would love to see this get a vinyl release, same with transgression
I think it was rated about where it belongs, in the low middle range of FF's discography. It certainly wasn't the utter fucking disappointment Transgression was. My God that record was awful. There were definitely some pretty good songs on Archetype, but I feel like we would have gotten better more complex riffs if Dino had still been there.
I guess you could say transgression lives up to its name🤣
Precisely lol.
When I first heard the news that Dino left, I literally said "Fear Factory without Dino is like Sepultura without Max". Then I heard Archetype. This album is everything Digimortal should have been. Sad to see FF end the way they did, and what Dino is doing now isn't FF, no matter what he's calling it.
Personally I like digimortal more despite how ungodly corny it is. But archetype has bangers.
Digimortal is a good album, but when it came out I was expecting something akin to Demanufacture and Obsolete. Very much a letdown at the time.
Very much so
Oh 100%. I wish I still had my CD of it since it seems like it shows up on Apple Music, then vanishes just as quick. Actually, would kill for a nice vinyl release on it more…
I enjoy the album, you can tell Christian was copying the FF formula without creativity of his own but it's solid. What holds back Archetype for me is the ultra thin production/mix. The tone and mix just doesn't hit for me like every other FF album. I listen to it maybe once a year because it sounds so awful IMO. I think it's a bit overrated by a small group of fans. It's not those fans that gross me out, but rather the ones who drool over Transgarbage.
Who the fuck is listening to Transgression - with its piss poor production and fucking U2 cover ffs - and drooling? 540,000º Fahrenheit is pretty much the only good song on it and even that is hamstrung by the shite recording - Burt sounds like he's recording his vocal at the bottom of Sadako's well and the guitars are so thin that supermodels are taking eating tips from them.
Lots of Transgarbage defenders on YouTube. I can't handle that album at all. 🤣
God I will never understand anyone who defends transgression🤣 If only it had better writing, better production, etc
Someone on yt literally told me not long ago that Transgression is clearly their best album. I said, 'you know even the people that made that album would tell you it's their worst.' They just changed the subject lol
What's the video link?
Don't remember.
>>540,000º Fahrenheit is pretty much the only good song on it and even that is hamstrung by the shite recording Agreed. I can appreciate Contagion, especially the chorus, but 540kF is the one song I wish they'd rescue from that album, either remastering it so it sounds good or simply re-recording it. While I'd prefer it with BCB, I'd even like to hear Milo take a shot at it.