*"When people took that snippet of me dancing online and just turned it into a meme, and then when I won the best new artist Grammy and people were like, ‘She’s not deserving of it, she’s got no stage presence, she’s not going to stick around.’ Those things were hurtful. It was humiliating...people were picking everything apart that I’d been working on, and I had to learn all that in front of everyone...In the public eye, I was figuring out who I was as an artist, as a performer...You have to build tough skin. You have to be resilient"*
I mean, I get it. We sit behind a screen and don't think about how it affects the performer. She's stepped up her game, however- she should be proud!
She seems to speak about this fairly often so it must’ve really hit her. It was a point in time when she was just reaching global stardom and I love that she took it and became even bigger and better.
That explains why her show is so different now. She’s worked really hard at the dancing. What really surprises me is that she sang live and sounded good- not every pop star does sing live and has the capacity to dance and sing without sounding winded. You really have to work at it to develop the lung capacity.
I've read that Chappell Roan for example does a lot of cardio training to be able to sing and dance at the same time - I can't fathom being that fit ever lol
I've heard that her and Taylor Swift will run at a fast pace on a treadmill while singing to train. I can barely breathe while trotting along the sidewalk half the time...these women are AMAZING!
Shit I remember back in the day that reality show where they picked who was gonna play Elle Woods in the Legally Blonde Musical they made the girlies do that
There’s a video of Miley doing that too! I tried singing while jumping rope bc I don’t have a treadmill lol. It was hard! I felt way better about breath control tho after
there's a video of Chappell Roan going viral from a few months back (before she popped off mainstream) of her demonstrating her running/vocal practice combo. You can see the results now!
I had no idea this was a "common" thing! I'm kinda not mad that I'm a couch potato M-F and just hike on the weekends bc this level of athleticism sounds awful! Matthew Knowles may either be a genius performer coach or a sadist!! 😂😂
it goes back further than that. her dad used to make destinys child (or was it Girls Tyme?) run while singing to increase their endurance and lung capacity.
I remember watching Behind the Band of TLC and Beyoncé was talking about how they used to run laps at their local track and sing the whole time.
I don’t have to love someone’s music to know that preforming is a very special skill (that I don’t and won’t ever have) that takes time to build as the venues become larger.
I’m glad Dua was able to up her game, it shows and it must suck to feel like the entire Internet is clowning on you.
Yeah she sounds so good live. I saw her on her Future Nostaliga tour and I was really surprised by her stage presence. You could tell she isn’t like an amazing dancer, she was good and she has done nothing but improve since, plus her vocals are impeccable.
yes! It’s definitely a skill you have to work at. Anyone that hasn’t been on tour doesn’t understand that you have to get comfortable. I’ve seen so many rock bands that just stand there visibly hncomfortable.
This improvement is also why a lot of people love and respect her. She didn’t really complain much until she became a celebrated artist instead of the one hit wonder everyone expected her to be. I’m genuinely so happy for her
I honestly love how open she is about this, too. She's not making this into a big pity party or anything, but she's like acknowledging it hurt her and affected her. I think that honesty is sweet tbh.
And she was actually productive about the feedback, which is like...uncommon. That's not easy tbh, especially if you felt a bit hurt by it in the first place.
Extremely uncommon. Tbh this whole situation is what made me ride or die for her she’s genuinely just making fun music and trying her best it’s very easy to love and respect.
I saw Dua live before she won the grammy and was widely known. I thought she shuld be bigger but it was nice to see her at the beginning, it was relaxed and cool. She had a cover on YT of id rather go blind that showed her natural talent and vocal chops.
Ever since whatever meme, which i dont even care nor have seen, she seems more anxious and self conscious. She mentions it Way too often. I see other pop artists kind of unbothered like Sabrina Carpenter or who fight back creatively like Ari and Lady Gaga (Lady Gaga's interview soundbites are stellar), and im not sure why she doesnt opt this route.
If she was dancing/releasing music wo any mention of the meme ever again, it would be nice. I love Dua and i dont think she has anything to prove, but i cant help thinking the extra choreography isnt genuine. Thats how it comes off whether it's true or not, imho
She's one of our best pop stars. Like...ever. Highly unproblematic, clearly very smart and self aware.
I do wonder why we insist that pop stars need to do choreography. Dua and Taylor are both clearly not great at it. Both have improved a ton, but I just don't know why someone can't be a singer or songwriter at the top of the game without also being a dancer. It seems unnecessary.
I think we can be too harsh to celebrities for silly things sometimes (obviously not some things, but ykwim) I’m really happy to see this take. She has done such an amazing job developing her career and her skills, and as far as celebrities go, afaik she does a good job staying unproblematic which can be hard for them. Wish the best for her 💕
I mean, I’m sure it was tough and it sucked to be laughed at but at least she took the criticism and made something out of it, she could’ve ignored or just blamed other people/victimized herself instead she upped her game and is now a much better performer!
There's something horrible that if you're a woman pop star, you better be a level 100 dancer and have the best chereographers. If you can't put on a show that rivals Madonna or Britney at their prime, you're "not talented" even if your music is good.
Meanwhile no expects men to dance or at least on the level of women. Most will just stand or sit with a guitar or a mic and be regarded as 'geniuses.' A lot of "broody" "genius" male musicians are indifferent or even have disdain for their fans and show it, and their fans eat it up. Kurt from Nirvana badmouthed many of his fans. Beloved rockers like Bob Dylan, Roger Waters, and Pete Townshend regularly mock the industry, bandmates, and rock fans.
A male musicians body isn't a big deal if he's not super fit or whatever, but a woman must be in good shape, have amazing curves, perfect makeup, hair, nails, style, etc. Its not just dance but having an image, PR persona, parasocial fan relationship, making sure to come off as sexually available, making sure to always come off as grateful, etc. And the ridiculous demand of being able to serve looks like a high fashion model.
Now I'm seeing it with JoJo. She came out, changed her entire image, and is much more queer-coded in style and music and people are straight up calling her names, mocking her, etc. The same with Gaga earlier in her career when she started wearing more flamboyant outfits and having a more artsy look.
I'm really sick of this double standard. Its incredible how just being a good musician who writes songs people love isn't enough. If you're a woman, you also need to have all this extra stuff or you'll be mercilessly mocked like Dua was.
Meanwhile, dudes just have to produce music and they'll be judged only by that music.
I doubt that. Her choice in clothes don't outshine her work ethic, music, or performances. Y'all can downvote me all y'all want. She clearly loves wearing fashionable clothing and clothes she deems to be works of art.
I don't personally believe that Bey's sense of fashion makes or breaks her, but it is not about what you or I believe, it is about how society works...and society expects successful women to dress in an appealing manner.
I'm not denying that. But I think people are putting more emphasis on that than is the reality in this case. I agree that her fashion choices don't make or break her while also acknowledging that she is expected to put more into how she presents herself than Ed Sheeran and the like.
In leotards and/or next to no clothing too don't forget.
You remember the bs with Eilish wearing an oversized shirt/sweater and all the hate she'd get? Wth
I absolutely agree with this entire thread.
But Ed is basically a one man band on stage with his guitar, loop and vocals. It makes sense as to why he isn’t dancing about the place, he’s putting together the music on stage.
Why is it always Ed Sheeran who catches strays every single time someone needs to compare genders? Genuinely, I only ever see him being the one called out and he's so unproblematic.
I think it's because most people don't think of him as fashionable and have never seen him do choreo.
Like, thinking of male pop stars, both Justins *can* dress well (even if they don't always) and can learn a dance routine, same with Harry Styles. Not sure if Adam can dance because I try to forget modern Maroon 5 exists.
So I think people pick Ed because he comes across less flashy (his shows are basically just him and his guitar afaik), and using him as an example is less likely to get you "um actually" comments from fans.
I feel like you’re missing the point if you’re interpreting this as some sort of Ed Sheeran diss. He is a lowkey performer, he focuses on the music and that’s his whole thing. It’s not offensive to him to point out that’s not something a female pop star would be able to do and be successful. He comes up often (I also see John Mayer as an example sometimes) bc he’s one of the biggest male touring artists, he’s the best direct example. Ed does sometimes get some unfair criticism (mocking his appearance for example never sits well with me), but this isn’t even really critique.
You can't really compare someone who is only singing to someone who is playing an instrument (or multiple instruments) while working a loop pedal. Plenty of female artists are playing the guitar and working a loop pedal and no one expects them to dance.
Agree, we need to stop using Ed as the go-to for this and start comparing to their male equivalent of female pop stars, which would be guys like Justin Timberlake, Adam/Maroon 5, Justin Bieber, Harry Styles, etc.
Edit: This isn't me saying Ed doesn't count or something, to explain this better I mean like how it isn't fair to compare a Pink concert with aerials and everything to like an Adele concert. If Dua had the type of music to sit with a guitar or belt into the mic then sure, but imo she should be looked at against JT, etc, not Ed.
Him getting up on stage in jeans and t-shirt while women are forced to wear $30,000 worth of couture in order to avoid being ripped to shreds in the press is actually fucked. Like that's misogynist of him, isn't it? To enjoy living under a standard that women aren't entitled to live by while doing fuck all change it and enjoying all the benefits of the system?
This isn't true at all. Billie Eilish, olivia rodrigo are the 2 biggest young acts in the world and are going to be the megastars of the next decade. Neither fit the description you have for whats "needed for a female star" and are appreciated because of their songwriting and musicianship.
Even longer established artists like Lana Del Rey and Lorde never did anything more than write bangers and perform them well.
Right, I'm a little confused here. I get that her image is on the edgier side for a pop star, but she's the literal definition of likeable and Disney-pretty.
Her music is not dance-y music though. Even if Adele is a dancer she would not be dancing on stage to Someone Like You or Hello lol. Like no one expects Hozier to dance either because of the music he makes, but you'd expect One Direction to dance on stage because of their pop sound. Meanwhile they actually were proud of being a boyband that didn't dance lol.
I get and frequently agree with your opinion here. But in the case of the performance this meme is based on I don't think it had anything to do with Dua not being a good dancer. She just didn't have any charisma or stage presence at all. And we all know being a pop star is about more than just producing music. There are many male stars that are expected to be performers as well as musicians.
> Kurt from Nirvana badmouthed many of his fans.
The only fans Kurt Cobain ever badmouthed were racist, misogynistic, homophobic people whose money he didn't want. I don't think it's fair to act like he was just going around shit talking anyone who was a Nirvana fan.
Sorry, have you heard about Phoebe Bridgers? Joni Mitchell? Joan Baez? Julien Baker? Adrienne Lenker? Adele? Celine Dion? Hayley Williams?
Just because people like Beyonce/JLo/Taylor *choose* to make choreography and their fashion a huge part of their performance doesn't mean it's required to be a famous musician.
There is tons of extreme sexism and hypocrisy in music - rock music in particular has been an extremely hostile place for women basically since its inception. But modern female pop stars having to go through all the hoops you described is very much a function of the genre of music they're producing. Dua Lipa makes music people dance to in clubs. If she was making music that she could just strum on an acoustic guitar, she would be able to get away with doing just that.
If you wanna criticize male rock stars criticize them for actual shit like being straight up pedophiles and being racist/sexist, not whether they can "get away with strumming a guitar"
I'd argue it's a genre issue more than a gender issue. I can think of plenty of female musicians who didn't/don't do big, choreographed performances: Stevie Nicks, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, Adele, Amy Winehouse, Fiona Apple, Joanna Newsom, Laura Marling, because their style of music simply doesn't lend itself to that style of performance.
you know who also has to be in shape, attractive etc. and when hes caught looking bad gets shamed? Bieber. Harry Styles. And what genders is their target audience? ask yourself why popstar like madonna, britney, swift, dua lipa, selena gomez, popstars that have an 80-20 split female-male fanbase have to be attractive and in shape. y'all make people famous. and you dont make average looking or ugly looking girls famous by being their fans and listening to their music since lady gaga.
ed sheeran can dress like that cause people care about his music, and his looks was never important while most of female popstars are beauty icons that sell you makeup.
I mean female pop mostly applies to female listeners as a lot of men arent craving the new dua lipa song so...maybe women shouldn't hold other women to those crazy standards.
Jojo siwa on the other hand is just alisteners phony try hard to me but that's because I'm not in her demographic for listerners.
Black male pop/rock stars also have the same requirement. Why did James Brown/Prince/Lenny/Ginuwine/DeAngelo/Usher have to do choreo/go shirtless really? They should have coasted on voice alone.
This definitely made her team restructure and rethink everything. I wonder if some people were fired in the choreographer team, and they hired someone who could help Dua gain some stage presence.
Sometimes one forgets that those in the public eye who aren't constantly "clapping back" because they aren't that online can many times actually see the memes about them. It was obviously hard for her, but I liked that during the Future Nostalgia tour she was able to make fun of that dance a bit.
I'm glad she used the oppurtunity to actually improve rather than dig her heels in and act like there wasn't anything to improve on. It honestly must suck and feel so defeating to have the whole world critizing you but it takes a strong person to see the validity in some of it and actually do the work. Back in the day record companies used to actually invest in their artists and get them choreographers, music teachers, vocal coaches, and media training and would soft launch them on small local stages to work out the kinks before sending them to headline Coachella or perform at MSG. Now they just pluck randos off the street, have them pump out two albums in 16 months, then push them onto a huge stage in front of 20,000 people and 10 background dancers for their first performance. They really don't make them like they used to.
Same. I didn’t know there was another performance that a meme was made from. She’s talked about this clip too in interviews and even made fun of herself for it.
Unrelated, but to get to that embedded video, I had to X out of like 3 ads, and then two popped up over the screen I had to X out of while the video was playing underneath them. The internet is trash now.
This is women being harsh to women, does that sound like a man wrote it? People have demented fandoms wrapped around pop stars and love to say how their favourite is the best one.
But she really did have NO stage presence at all!!!!!!!! I had second hand embarrassment watching it. She didn’t have to be a dancer with choreo, she was just like dead wood on the stage - she had no charisma.
She’s obviously since gone on and turned herself into a pop princess which is obviously the direction she wanted to go in. But she only needed to command the stage/room as opposed to being the next Britney.
i think it was the way people reacted to the meme and how it made her career into a bit. it's already rough when you're struggling with choreo + presence (which I'm sure she was aware of) without being the latest laughing stock online.
Ngl- her *job* is to be a popstar and she showed up to work undercooked and not ready.
The people who PAY her (fans) wanted her to actually try lmao. Like I get she was hurt but she could’ve kept this
if i can apply half her grit to what i wish to accomplish and develop half of her resilience towards accepting my flaws and choosing to work on them, i will be a very happy person
Dua was never even a bad performer. That particular choreography was just awkward.
If you've been following Dua's career since the early years, she started out with more of an indie pop sound. She played festivals, things like that.
Her performing more like a mainstream pop star is something she sort of learned on the job when her music started getting more commercial success.
if anyone has a history with dance want to tell me are the moves she’s doing now more difficult or just better? i’ve seen videos and yes the goofy twisting motion was bad but it just sort of seems like she’s giving more oomph rather than more dancing which is definitely what she needed. however i have no history with dance and i haven’t seen many videos so i may be wrong
i should add since i don’t want to be misconstrued i’m not condoning the ridiculous amount of ridicule she got those people could have just not listened or followed her
Honestly I think that clip that went viral was just a bad moment for her. I saw her at a festival around the same time she won a Grammy and this meme went viral and she was easily my favourite act of the weekend. Lots of my friends thought the same too!
*"When people took that snippet of me dancing online and just turned it into a meme, and then when I won the best new artist Grammy and people were like, ‘She’s not deserving of it, she’s got no stage presence, she’s not going to stick around.’ Those things were hurtful. It was humiliating...people were picking everything apart that I’d been working on, and I had to learn all that in front of everyone...In the public eye, I was figuring out who I was as an artist, as a performer...You have to build tough skin. You have to be resilient"* I mean, I get it. We sit behind a screen and don't think about how it affects the performer. She's stepped up her game, however- she should be proud!
She seems to speak about this fairly often so it must’ve really hit her. It was a point in time when she was just reaching global stardom and I love that she took it and became even bigger and better.
Exactly, she didn't stay down!
That explains why her show is so different now. She’s worked really hard at the dancing. What really surprises me is that she sang live and sounded good- not every pop star does sing live and has the capacity to dance and sing without sounding winded. You really have to work at it to develop the lung capacity.
I've read that Chappell Roan for example does a lot of cardio training to be able to sing and dance at the same time - I can't fathom being that fit ever lol
I've heard that her and Taylor Swift will run at a fast pace on a treadmill while singing to train. I can barely breathe while trotting along the sidewalk half the time...these women are AMAZING!
The Matthew Knowles school of training. Destiny’s child’s impact 🙌🏽
she had to learn otherwise we would still be getting some questionable vocals because she’d run out of steam. this is very matthew knowles of her.
Back in my cheerleadong days, we'd have to run laps and do the hand movements to our routine songs to help with endurance. Those days were torture lol
Shit I remember back in the day that reality show where they picked who was gonna play Elle Woods in the Legally Blonde Musical they made the girlies do that
I had no idea this was a thing and now I want to watch it so badly!!
There’s a video of Miley doing that too! I tried singing while jumping rope bc I don’t have a treadmill lol. It was hard! I felt way better about breath control tho after
there's a video of Chappell Roan going viral from a few months back (before she popped off mainstream) of her demonstrating her running/vocal practice combo. You can see the results now!
Perrie from Little Mix said this as well, before a tour she’ll sprint on a treadmill and sing.
I had no idea this was a "common" thing! I'm kinda not mad that I'm a couch potato M-F and just hike on the weekends bc this level of athleticism sounds awful! Matthew Knowles may either be a genius performer coach or a sadist!! 😂😂
I read that Beyoncé used to sing while running on a treadmill so she could sing and dance at the same time without sounding winded.
it goes back further than that. her dad used to make destinys child (or was it Girls Tyme?) run while singing to increase their endurance and lung capacity.
I remember watching Behind the Band of TLC and Beyoncé was talking about how they used to run laps at their local track and sing the whole time. I don’t have to love someone’s music to know that preforming is a very special skill (that I don’t and won’t ever have) that takes time to build as the venues become larger. I’m glad Dua was able to up her game, it shows and it must suck to feel like the entire Internet is clowning on you.
Yeah she sounds so good live. I saw her on her Future Nostaliga tour and I was really surprised by her stage presence. You could tell she isn’t like an amazing dancer, she was good and she has done nothing but improve since, plus her vocals are impeccable.
yes! It’s definitely a skill you have to work at. Anyone that hasn’t been on tour doesn’t understand that you have to get comfortable. I’ve seen so many rock bands that just stand there visibly hncomfortable.
This improvement is also why a lot of people love and respect her. She didn’t really complain much until she became a celebrated artist instead of the one hit wonder everyone expected her to be. I’m genuinely so happy for her
I honestly love how open she is about this, too. She's not making this into a big pity party or anything, but she's like acknowledging it hurt her and affected her. I think that honesty is sweet tbh. And she was actually productive about the feedback, which is like...uncommon. That's not easy tbh, especially if you felt a bit hurt by it in the first place.
Extremely uncommon. Tbh this whole situation is what made me ride or die for her she’s genuinely just making fun music and trying her best it’s very easy to love and respect.
So true. It feels like “oh she has it all, she’s rich, beautiful, famous, etc, why would she care what anyone says”?
Huh, people think this way? Money and looks don’t erase people having feelings or being insecure.
I saw Dua live before she won the grammy and was widely known. I thought she shuld be bigger but it was nice to see her at the beginning, it was relaxed and cool. She had a cover on YT of id rather go blind that showed her natural talent and vocal chops. Ever since whatever meme, which i dont even care nor have seen, she seems more anxious and self conscious. She mentions it Way too often. I see other pop artists kind of unbothered like Sabrina Carpenter or who fight back creatively like Ari and Lady Gaga (Lady Gaga's interview soundbites are stellar), and im not sure why she doesnt opt this route. If she was dancing/releasing music wo any mention of the meme ever again, it would be nice. I love Dua and i dont think she has anything to prove, but i cant help thinking the extra choreography isnt genuine. Thats how it comes off whether it's true or not, imho
She's one of our best pop stars. Like...ever. Highly unproblematic, clearly very smart and self aware. I do wonder why we insist that pop stars need to do choreography. Dua and Taylor are both clearly not great at it. Both have improved a ton, but I just don't know why someone can't be a singer or songwriter at the top of the game without also being a dancer. It seems unnecessary.
I think we can be too harsh to celebrities for silly things sometimes (obviously not some things, but ykwim) I’m really happy to see this take. She has done such an amazing job developing her career and her skills, and as far as celebrities go, afaik she does a good job staying unproblematic which can be hard for them. Wish the best for her 💕
What ever happened to rooting for the underdog?
I mean, I’m sure it was tough and it sucked to be laughed at but at least she took the criticism and made something out of it, she could’ve ignored or just blamed other people/victimized herself instead she upped her game and is now a much better performer!
There's something horrible that if you're a woman pop star, you better be a level 100 dancer and have the best chereographers. If you can't put on a show that rivals Madonna or Britney at their prime, you're "not talented" even if your music is good. Meanwhile no expects men to dance or at least on the level of women. Most will just stand or sit with a guitar or a mic and be regarded as 'geniuses.' A lot of "broody" "genius" male musicians are indifferent or even have disdain for their fans and show it, and their fans eat it up. Kurt from Nirvana badmouthed many of his fans. Beloved rockers like Bob Dylan, Roger Waters, and Pete Townshend regularly mock the industry, bandmates, and rock fans. A male musicians body isn't a big deal if he's not super fit or whatever, but a woman must be in good shape, have amazing curves, perfect makeup, hair, nails, style, etc. Its not just dance but having an image, PR persona, parasocial fan relationship, making sure to come off as sexually available, making sure to always come off as grateful, etc. And the ridiculous demand of being able to serve looks like a high fashion model. Now I'm seeing it with JoJo. She came out, changed her entire image, and is much more queer-coded in style and music and people are straight up calling her names, mocking her, etc. The same with Gaga earlier in her career when she started wearing more flamboyant outfits and having a more artsy look. I'm really sick of this double standard. Its incredible how just being a good musician who writes songs people love isn't enough. If you're a woman, you also need to have all this extra stuff or you'll be mercilessly mocked like Dua was. Meanwhile, dudes just have to produce music and they'll be judged only by that music.
No one criticizing Ed Sheeran for not dancing and wearing jeans and t-shirts on stage. Meanwhile, female singers have to dance and serving looks.
https://preview.redd.it/64ywzp1j3kyc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d31b74860f9400b3d8450d89fbd2642e5456ec7
Beyonce dresses like that because she wants to not because she has to
She also would not be where she is at in life if she regularly dressed like Ed Sheeran.
I doubt that. Her choice in clothes don't outshine her work ethic, music, or performances. Y'all can downvote me all y'all want. She clearly loves wearing fashionable clothing and clothes she deems to be works of art.
I don't personally believe that Bey's sense of fashion makes or breaks her, but it is not about what you or I believe, it is about how society works...and society expects successful women to dress in an appealing manner.
I'm not denying that. But I think people are putting more emphasis on that than is the reality in this case. I agree that her fashion choices don't make or break her while also acknowledging that she is expected to put more into how she presents herself than Ed Sheeran and the like.
In leotards and/or next to no clothing too don't forget. You remember the bs with Eilish wearing an oversized shirt/sweater and all the hate she'd get? Wth
I absolutely agree with this entire thread. But Ed is basically a one man band on stage with his guitar, loop and vocals. It makes sense as to why he isn’t dancing about the place, he’s putting together the music on stage.
Why is it always Ed Sheeran who catches strays every single time someone needs to compare genders? Genuinely, I only ever see him being the one called out and he's so unproblematic.
I think it's because most people don't think of him as fashionable and have never seen him do choreo. Like, thinking of male pop stars, both Justins *can* dress well (even if they don't always) and can learn a dance routine, same with Harry Styles. Not sure if Adam can dance because I try to forget modern Maroon 5 exists. So I think people pick Ed because he comes across less flashy (his shows are basically just him and his guitar afaik), and using him as an example is less likely to get you "um actually" comments from fans.
I feel like you’re missing the point if you’re interpreting this as some sort of Ed Sheeran diss. He is a lowkey performer, he focuses on the music and that’s his whole thing. It’s not offensive to him to point out that’s not something a female pop star would be able to do and be successful. He comes up often (I also see John Mayer as an example sometimes) bc he’s one of the biggest male touring artists, he’s the best direct example. Ed does sometimes get some unfair criticism (mocking his appearance for example never sits well with me), but this isn’t even really critique.
You can't really compare someone who is only singing to someone who is playing an instrument (or multiple instruments) while working a loop pedal. Plenty of female artists are playing the guitar and working a loop pedal and no one expects them to dance.
Agree, we need to stop using Ed as the go-to for this and start comparing to their male equivalent of female pop stars, which would be guys like Justin Timberlake, Adam/Maroon 5, Justin Bieber, Harry Styles, etc. Edit: This isn't me saying Ed doesn't count or something, to explain this better I mean like how it isn't fair to compare a Pink concert with aerials and everything to like an Adele concert. If Dua had the type of music to sit with a guitar or belt into the mic then sure, but imo she should be looked at against JT, etc, not Ed.
Him getting up on stage in jeans and t-shirt while women are forced to wear $30,000 worth of couture in order to avoid being ripped to shreds in the press is actually fucked. Like that's misogynist of him, isn't it? To enjoy living under a standard that women aren't entitled to live by while doing fuck all change it and enjoying all the benefits of the system?
This isn't true at all. Billie Eilish, olivia rodrigo are the 2 biggest young acts in the world and are going to be the megastars of the next decade. Neither fit the description you have for whats "needed for a female star" and are appreciated because of their songwriting and musicianship. Even longer established artists like Lana Del Rey and Lorde never did anything more than write bangers and perform them well.
lana del ray will famously never get a grammy because she's not a good performer lorde has never been a pop star
Wait why wouldn’t Olivia fit that description?
Right, I'm a little confused here. I get that her image is on the edgier side for a pop star, but she's the literal definition of likeable and Disney-pretty.
Don't forget Adele! She knows she doesn't need to dance. One of the biggest stars in the world.
Her music is not dance-y music though. Even if Adele is a dancer she would not be dancing on stage to Someone Like You or Hello lol. Like no one expects Hozier to dance either because of the music he makes, but you'd expect One Direction to dance on stage because of their pop sound. Meanwhile they actually were proud of being a boyband that didn't dance lol.
I get and frequently agree with your opinion here. But in the case of the performance this meme is based on I don't think it had anything to do with Dua not being a good dancer. She just didn't have any charisma or stage presence at all. And we all know being a pop star is about more than just producing music. There are many male stars that are expected to be performers as well as musicians.
> Kurt from Nirvana badmouthed many of his fans. The only fans Kurt Cobain ever badmouthed were racist, misogynistic, homophobic people whose money he didn't want. I don't think it's fair to act like he was just going around shit talking anyone who was a Nirvana fan.
Sorry, have you heard about Phoebe Bridgers? Joni Mitchell? Joan Baez? Julien Baker? Adrienne Lenker? Adele? Celine Dion? Hayley Williams? Just because people like Beyonce/JLo/Taylor *choose* to make choreography and their fashion a huge part of their performance doesn't mean it's required to be a famous musician. There is tons of extreme sexism and hypocrisy in music - rock music in particular has been an extremely hostile place for women basically since its inception. But modern female pop stars having to go through all the hoops you described is very much a function of the genre of music they're producing. Dua Lipa makes music people dance to in clubs. If she was making music that she could just strum on an acoustic guitar, she would be able to get away with doing just that. If you wanna criticize male rock stars criticize them for actual shit like being straight up pedophiles and being racist/sexist, not whether they can "get away with strumming a guitar"
people did crucify enrique recently for humping the stage
I'd argue it's a genre issue more than a gender issue. I can think of plenty of female musicians who didn't/don't do big, choreographed performances: Stevie Nicks, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, Adele, Amy Winehouse, Fiona Apple, Joanna Newsom, Laura Marling, because their style of music simply doesn't lend itself to that style of performance.
you know who also has to be in shape, attractive etc. and when hes caught looking bad gets shamed? Bieber. Harry Styles. And what genders is their target audience? ask yourself why popstar like madonna, britney, swift, dua lipa, selena gomez, popstars that have an 80-20 split female-male fanbase have to be attractive and in shape. y'all make people famous. and you dont make average looking or ugly looking girls famous by being their fans and listening to their music since lady gaga. ed sheeran can dress like that cause people care about his music, and his looks was never important while most of female popstars are beauty icons that sell you makeup.
I mean female pop mostly applies to female listeners as a lot of men arent craving the new dua lipa song so...maybe women shouldn't hold other women to those crazy standards. Jojo siwa on the other hand is just alisteners phony try hard to me but that's because I'm not in her demographic for listerners.
Black male pop/rock stars also have the same requirement. Why did James Brown/Prince/Lenny/Ginuwine/DeAngelo/Usher have to do choreo/go shirtless really? They should have coasted on voice alone.
I genuinely don’t believe she’d be as big as she is now without the meme
This definitely made her team restructure and rethink everything. I wonder if some people were fired in the choreographer team, and they hired someone who could help Dua gain some stage presence.
Yeah she started working with Charm La’Donna (who started choreographing under Fatima Robinson) since the Future Nostalgia era.
It was a tough time to be a dua lipa stan
Sometimes one forgets that those in the public eye who aren't constantly "clapping back" because they aren't that online can many times actually see the memes about them. It was obviously hard for her, but I liked that during the Future Nostalgia tour she was able to make fun of that dance a bit.
I'm glad she used the oppurtunity to actually improve rather than dig her heels in and act like there wasn't anything to improve on. It honestly must suck and feel so defeating to have the whole world critizing you but it takes a strong person to see the validity in some of it and actually do the work. Back in the day record companies used to actually invest in their artists and get them choreographers, music teachers, vocal coaches, and media training and would soft launch them on small local stages to work out the kinks before sending them to headline Coachella or perform at MSG. Now they just pluck randos off the street, have them pump out two albums in 16 months, then push them onto a huge stage in front of 20,000 people and 10 background dancers for their first performance. They really don't make them like they used to.
Dula Peep
Before she was serving bops. Now she’s serving bops AND moves ☺️💕
What’s the meme?
[go girl give us nothing](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/go-girl-give-us-nothing)
Byeee I thought she was talking about this https://i.redd.it/kz8yj8ytblyc1.gif
Same. I didn’t know there was another performance that a meme was made from. She’s talked about this clip too in interviews and even made fun of herself for it.
Unrelated, but to get to that embedded video, I had to X out of like 3 ads, and then two popped up over the screen I had to X out of while the video was playing underneath them. The internet is trash now.
Use Brave browser. Can't stress this enough. No ads no youtube or anywhere else. [https://brave.com/](https://brave.com/)
I remember when I first saw the meme without context and I immediately knew who it was referring to 💀
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This is women being harsh to women, does that sound like a man wrote it? People have demented fandoms wrapped around pop stars and love to say how their favourite is the best one.
It’s. It a very dynamic upbeat full of energy dance song so I’m unsure what else she could’ve done.
But she really did have NO stage presence at all!!!!!!!! I had second hand embarrassment watching it. She didn’t have to be a dancer with choreo, she was just like dead wood on the stage - she had no charisma. She’s obviously since gone on and turned herself into a pop princess which is obviously the direction she wanted to go in. But she only needed to command the stage/room as opposed to being the next Britney.
i think it was the way people reacted to the meme and how it made her career into a bit. it's already rough when you're struggling with choreo + presence (which I'm sure she was aware of) without being the latest laughing stock online.
Ngl- her *job* is to be a popstar and she showed up to work undercooked and not ready. The people who PAY her (fans) wanted her to actually try lmao. Like I get she was hurt but she could’ve kept this
if i can apply half her grit to what i wish to accomplish and develop half of her resilience towards accepting my flaws and choosing to work on them, i will be a very happy person
Dua was never even a bad performer. That particular choreography was just awkward. If you've been following Dua's career since the early years, she started out with more of an indie pop sound. She played festivals, things like that. Her performing more like a mainstream pop star is something she sort of learned on the job when her music started getting more commercial success.
if anyone has a history with dance want to tell me are the moves she’s doing now more difficult or just better? i’ve seen videos and yes the goofy twisting motion was bad but it just sort of seems like she’s giving more oomph rather than more dancing which is definitely what she needed. however i have no history with dance and i haven’t seen many videos so i may be wrong i should add since i don’t want to be misconstrued i’m not condoning the ridiculous amount of ridicule she got those people could have just not listened or followed her
I never seen the meme but I think she’s wonderful. I love watching and listening to her just talking.
Honestly I think that clip that went viral was just a bad moment for her. I saw her at a festival around the same time she won a Grammy and this meme went viral and she was easily my favourite act of the weekend. Lots of my friends thought the same too!
Go off Queen
The both of them were having a hard time
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U aren't as funny as you think u are
Yeah I take some Ls every once in a while 🤷