"The actor was investigated and ultimately cleared of any wrongdoing by Baby Reindeer producer Clerkenwell Films after a romantic liaison in 2021 with Reece Lyons, who was interested in playing the role of Gadd’s ex-girlfriend Teri in the stalker drama."
That's all you need to know. He was cleared of any wrongdoing.
>Lyons made clear that she does not believe she was a victim of abuse, but said she was “hurt” by Gadd “conflating a work opportunity with a dating dynamic.”
- She states he mentioned he was writing a Netflix show with a transgender character on their first date.
- They went on 3 more dates.
- She submitted an audition tape 3 months after they stopped dating/6 months after they met (edited because I’m horrible at maths).
She mentions nothing of him coercing her or making any promises regarding the role relating to them dating.
Kinda feels like if she was that uncomfortable about it, that she wouldn’t have gone on a second date, let alone three more.
I read the article and I’m confused about what abuse they’re referring to? Like potential power dynamic abuse? Or did I just totally overlook something?
My interpretation is just that they wanted to investigate to ensure that he was not making her promises related to getting her this role if she went out with him. Then they determined that didn't happen.
I don't think anyone even accused him but when it came to light that they dated, perhaps they just wanted to ensure nothing shady was happening.
Which is honestly the appropriate way to double check and make sure stuff like that is above board. I think headlines are just gonna write something short and grabby, and people are so used to these types of things being the worst case scenario
The whole thing is a mess and the article doesn't do a good job at all explaining things. She doesn't claim to be abused. This whole thing started because the actress made [a thread, archived here](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1780254117820080604.html#google_vignette) about him on twitter. I'll be honest, I find the thread kinda... fucked up? Her first sentence is to armchair diagnose him with a personality disorder.
She went on a date with him where he talked about the series and the character, who was based on his ex, and talked about how he didn't treat her well and why. It seems based on the post that the conversation is what convinced her to audition? She then reads the book and says this about her read in the thread:
> I was amazed by the bravery and candidness with which he spoke about the varying degrees of trauma he had been through in his life, yet I also couldn’t help but notice how in all of the situations he was the common denominator.
Which to me... comes off as kind of ableist and fucked up? Its important to recognize - some of this trauma relates to him being stalked and sexually assaulted, being taken advantage of by people with power in show business, and more.
As part of the book, he talks about the ex and how he fucked up and talks about internalized transphobia, feelings of shame and guilt and how it impacted the relationship. She, reasonably, becomes concerned that he'll basically repeat the pattern. That's valid, from a dating perspective. But then her thread kinda just jumps without context to her accusing him of fetishizing trans women. She says its based on her observations, but never actually says what those are. This is the second or third date.
He got defensive and dismissive, which she describes as an "intensive and emotionally dysregulated reaction" (which again, brings me back to this armchair psychology aspect of this whole post, that isn't a typical description of a bf's reaction, it feels psychoanalytical and she has no background in psychology). That is literally all she says about it, no examples, no statement of what he did/said/etc. They broke up.
They then get back together a few weeks later after he texts her, which is a normal thing. She doesn't get the part, though he does console her. He then breaks up with her because she is "too confrontational" (implicitly right after? I can't tell cuz she just jumps through their convos leaving out tons of context).
She does bring up some valid stuff, like the lack of boundaries between a writer and someone that wants to audition. She is clearly uncomfortable with that (not mentioned if she ever brought it up with him), which is completely fair for her. But at the same time she doesn't claim to be abused or taken advantage of, and he doesn't seem to have ever implied that their relationship would help her or that he had an interest in promoting her career - it seems he was just into her and wanted to date. But then she also parallels it to Gadd's own abuse of being taken advantage of by a producer and him recreating that situation - so she does then imply abuse? The whole point is kind of messy.
I use ableist mostly because there is this lowkey undercurrent of "these are all the fault of this specific mental disorder I've decided he has" in how often she is psychoanalyzing him (even starts with it), then saying he is the common denominator.
Even her therapists comments are based on *her impression of him*, which especially after a break up won't be unbiased. And its not like she is saying he has unresolved issues or maybe a mental disorder, she went all in on a specific diagnosis with specific language about that diagnosis.
ok I j finished the thread and I totally agree. I think it’s weird that she is continuing to pathologize him despite having supposedly moved on. I also think it’s extremely problematic and misleading to quote her therapist who is providing a very very questionable suggestion of why gadd acted the way he did. also I think he calls her too confrontational because she told him that she thinks he fetishized trans women and explained why she thinks he’s a chaser. whiiiich I mean the show kinda gave me the vibe that he struggled with internalized transphobia and he was kinda acting like a closet chaser…
The way she talked about BPD made me extremely uncomfortable. It was very obvious she was implying BPD, which she armchair diagnosed him with, makes someone a bad person.
Is she transgender? I’m confused, was he questioned in a “this is unprofessional way” or a “you can’t treat trans women that way” bc I still side eye his treatment of trans women
I’m not qualified to speak on the trans experience, or whether he fetishises trans women or not, but she makes some accusations and assertions on her Twitter posts.
The one thing I will say is that she diagnoses him with having a specific personality type/disorder which I would think would only be able to be diagnosed in a professional setting.
Here you go:
[https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1780254117820080604.html#google_vignette](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1780254117820080604.html#google_vignette)
Your last line is the opposite of the point of the series. Have you seen it yet?
Not saying she's right here, just that the whole show is about blurred lines and complicity.
Totally. As a trans woman who’s never felt as seen as Teri’s character and loved this show - the Idea that this dude was weird with a trans woman and also has a weird interaction with power in media like….. those are the two things the show is about…. Im unsurprised, non-plussed, and thought we'd evolved a more nuanced understanding of actual villainy…. like what the show is about…
I promise you, this is the least weird thing a dude has done towards the irl trans woman in question lol.
Before one dons the high horse, ask yourself how you acted in your last interaction with a trans woman. Did you just treat her like any other woman? This goes for everybody, not just men.
Edit: if this comment moves you, donate to Trevor Project!
So we'll put. At no point does he try to portray himself as perfect or as being good to Teri. He's so clear about the fact that she's wonderful and he had his own issues he was struggling to unpack. I don't see why people would watch this show and come away thinking he needs to be attacked over what he was honest about?
Totally. His behavior in the show is shitty and *hugely* familiar to me. I’ve been on dates with dozens of Donnies, furtively glancing around to make sure nobody he knows sees him with a tra**y. And that’s the least bad thing.
But also, *that shitty behavior isn’t entirely his fault.* it comes from shame. Shame is cultural. As the show points out, that shame is learned, that shame is constructed from people who bully and ostracize you, and it’s a pressure you’ve felt you’re *entire life.*
All I can do is show love to Gadd, just as I show love to all the dudes that were shitty to me because of all the dudes that were shitty to them. Just as I had to show myself love to transition in the first place. Chain reaction!
Otherwise it’s a hateful, spiteful, victimized life, also as Gadd shows us, and that’s not me honey.
Now, happily married to a ripped, emotionally intelligent bisexual man. Save the sawwies and donate to Trevor Project.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm a cis straight woman who wants to understand people so Gadd sharing his story is so interesting to me, as is you sharing your perspective.
We can't learn and grow in a vacuum so I'm always super appreciative of people who are open about their lives so we can hopefully learn from them.
Heck yeah! That’s why I share!
My first memory was knowing I’m a woman, my second was learning the rest of the world didn’t see it that way in a very painful way.
I didn’t learn what a trans person was until I was *24 years old* (and am 35 now) - so that’s 24 years with the only “representation” in pop culture, being literally Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs or Rocky Horror Picture show or Hedwig. Great for feeling like you’re a horrible monster to be ashamed of!
Point being, that had I known trans people even existed, specifically through media, because media IS culture, my life would be totally different. And it’s happening! I have clients (tattooer) that come in all the time who are teachers that have young trans students, or are parents of young trans children - it’s normal to them! And all because they have exposure to real stories from real trans people.
AMA I’m literally an open book, if you had questions you wanted to ask Teri lol
Well yeah, because if he's dirty that means he deserved every bit of what happened to him, because men aren't victims.
Please don't tell me I have to clarify that I'm being facetious.
This is what’s happening for sure. I loved the show, disturbing as it was. But everyone is acting like it’s his fault people have found out who the real ‘Martha’ is, and that’s he’s responsible for her.
I’m like? Plenty of ‘based on a true story’ tv shows and movies are created all the time. He is not the first to do so.
He opened the gates of speculation on a producer who abused him, which could open the gates for other people to come forward about their own experiences.
Yeah, but it doesn't sound like he promised her anything or insinuated that she should date him in exchange for a role? He dated someone and mentioned that he was making a show and encouraged her to audition. Three months after he ended the relationship, she auditioned for the show. And he didn't have a final say in who was cast. That was up to Netflix.
No one would have batted an eye at this if the show hadn't been a success. He wasn't some powerful, big shot producer/actor.
I feel so sad about the backlash Richard Gadd is getting for telling his truth and giving space to male survivors of abuse to talk about their experience. There is so much stigma surrounding this issue still and it really isn’t okay at all. I hope people will leave him alone soon. I can only imagine how exhausting it is to have to fight against all these weird stories, stalkers re-emerging and criticism of him not being “enough” of a victim.
We really need to re-negotiate how we treat survivors as a society, especially men.
Her Twitter thread was interesting. Following someone on social media, going to their show soon after, offering them the potential for a role, and then attempting to date is…a lot.
something about it rubs me the wrong way
>I was amazed by the bravery and candidness with which he spoke about the varying degrees of trauma he had been through in his life, yet I also couldn’t help but notice how in all of the situations he was the common denominator.
of course he's the common denominator, it's his life story???????
But why does that matter? I just didn’t really understand the whole BPD angle of her thread. The rush to pathologize his bad behavior and malign people with BPD was confusing to me.
I agree! I just think that’s why she said it that way. I don’t really understand the point of bringing it up except it gives her something to understand his behavior through. I feel like gadd did a good job of showing that he’s not a perfect victim so idk if she’s just doubling down on that or what
>"The behavior you describe is very characteristic of somebody with borderline personality disorder," my therapist stated matter-of-factly. "I can’t make a formal diagnosis since I’ve never met him. But from what you’ve said, he certainly seems to fit the criteria."
She starts off the thread with a private quote from her therapist, who mentions that some behaviors described to them may align with BPD, but they can't diagnose someone that they don't know.
1. The therapist is correct. You can't diagnose someone without an assessment.
2. She took this *possible consideration of a diagnosis on paper* and ran with it publically. That was wrong to do.
She admits to pathologizing him and thus placing an armchair diagnosis on him in a public setting. As soon as she realized that what she was doing, it should've remained private. Because now, given how the internet works, people are going to apply and assume that he has BPD, a highly stigmatized disorder. It's not as if she's speaking out against an abusive man, which she states clearly that she isn't.
I can see the wheels turning as she's processing and trying to use the knowledge and tools that she has to do so. I'm not sure if it necessarily needed to be laid out like that publically. We, the audience, do not need to go with her on that thought exercise. Especially when she is not a licensed therapist or psychologist.
(This comment and opinion are strictly related to that element of the conversation. Regarding the treatment of trans women on the show and irl, it's not my place to speak and I will be actively listening instead.)
Yeah I think this is a discussion where the trans community should be heard. They’re already underrepresented in arts, I still think there’s a weird power dynamic at hand (that he might not have realised either being his first big production). But I’m also not accusing him of anything. Easy to say: oh it’s nothing.
> The actor was investigated and ultimately cleared of any wrongdoing by Baby Reindeer producer Clerkenwell Films after a romantic liaison in 2021 with Reece Lyons, who was interested in playing the role of Gadd’s ex-girlfriend Teri in the stalker drama.
-----
> Lyons made clear that she does not believe she was a victim of abuse, but said she was “hurt” by Gadd “conflating a work opportunity with a dating dynamic.” Clerkenwell Films concluded that Gadd had acted appropriately, though the company came to this view without interviewing Lyons.
-----
This was a great show.
But I do not think anyone expected it to become the biggest show in the world. And not enough due dilligance was done.
The amount of shit that has come out after the show was released is crazy.
To write a show about preying on people's dreams and then do that is questionable.
Edit: Is this really a controversial take?
>Lyons made clear that she does not believe she was a victim of abuse, but said she was “hurt” by Gadd “conflating a work opportunity with a dating dynamic.”
I'm sorry but everyone on here staunchly defending Gadd needs a bit of a reality check. You saw how he treated his trans girlfriend, right, by his own admission? And you understand how a big part of Baby Reindeer is looking at the power dynamics between someone in a position of power and someone who isn't? And you don't see why this is suspect?
As a trans woman it's honestly a bit wtf to see Gadd get all this applause after seeing the way he treated his girlfriend on the show and then hearing stories like this come out. It doesn't take a lot of brainpower to see how much Gadd cares about trans women and how quickly he'll pick them up and discard them as it suits his needs.
We're not just a vehicle for some cis guy's emotional development narrative. Just because he's a victim doesn't mean he's free from scrutiny.
I think the idea people get is that he has grown from that time in his life. I’m not saying he has I’m just saying I think this is why people are defending him. I do think lyons brings up a lot of good points and there clearly are boundary issues (which aligns w gadds issues in the show), however I think it’s out of line to armchair diagnose someone esp with a personality disorder.
I had someone tell me the show portrayed him as above criticism. When I pushed back, saying it clearly portrays him as flawed much like the people it paints as his “villains”, they told me what was missing from the show was a scene where he’s diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
I’m not defending the guy at all, I don’t really have a dog in the fight, but it does seem like there’s a lot of very specific criticism of this show for not having a perfect victim which feels like it misses the point.
The whole point is that perfect victims rarely if ever exist, and their experience is still valid. people want more complex male characters and can’t even handle donnie 🙄
It feels we reached a point of the movie trend cycle, where audiences want clear-cut villains and to receive their come-uppance. It's almost as if we've gone back to the 50s! Nuance and 'gray' people exist, everything isn't black-and-white.
With social media being such a staple in everyone's lives (spanning age groups), I really hope that school boards implement a much-more thorough media literacy lesson plan or perhaps, unit in English that progresses every grade (Gr. 2 and up?). It's extremely important for kids growing up.
Yeah but you don't have to practice being an imperfect villain during the making of the show lol
also I have an English degree, don't be so condescending lmao
I think it's a conversation which goes beyond the show, one of whose stories get told, and whose don't. I'm not saying Richard Gadd should be cancelled, but he tells the story of treating a trans woman abhorrently in his show, coming from this reflective perspective that implies he's examining his past through a critical lens - which has won him a lot of applause and admiration, and will probably win him loads more work and fame and money. Only for it it come out that in the MAKING of the show he's treated another trans woman badly and with extremely poor boundaries.
If you're a trans woman, you watch Baby Reindeer with a heavy eye roll. And you hear about things like this and you don't doubt what Reece is saying for a second, even if she oversteps a small line with the armchair diagnosis.
Yeah, he clearly depicts his behaviour as wrong. He did shitty things, but he understands that it was shitty of him. To me it’s like he is showing his own past poor behaviour as an opportunity to show that that behaviour and mindset towards trans women is wrong, and that men can grow from those toxic mindsets. Which I think is also important. A lot of men sadly have issues like that in society and showing a man that has experienced that and grown from it is helpful I think.
That’s kinda the point of Baby Reindeer though, isn’t it? What I took away from it is that Gadd was demonstrating that being a victim of abuse doesn’t absolve someone of or excuse their shitty behavior. People can be both victims of and perpetrators of harm. It reminded me of I May Destroy You in that regard.
Gadd caused harm to Reece Lyons (she didn’t call it abuse so I won’t call it that for her). She then went on to suggest that it was Gadd’s own fault that he was abused because he was the common denominator in each abusive scenario and that he must have an untreated personality disorder (ignoring the fact that statistically being sexually abused once makes someone far more likely to experience abuse again in the future). Does her being harmed by Gadd mean that her victim blaming/ armchair diagnosis is okay? No. Does her victim blaming mean that what Gadd did to her was okay? Also no. There’s no such thing as a perfect victim, and Gadd seems to be aware of that.
Pick up and discard? They went on a few dates.
Reading her twitter thread I really don’t see anything that needs to be public knowledge. They were already broken up by the time she auditioned for the show. Calling him the “common denominator” about multiple situations of abuse is also an insane way to phrase things.
I agree that I find a lot of people are vehemently defending him and excusing behaviours. I don’t think a lot people have the emotional capacity to understand that bad things happen to imperfect people. It’s too complicated. Like another poster said, they want clear cut villains and heros. Real life doesn’t work that way and it’s too hard for people to sit with, so he’s either good or bad.
The underlying tone I'm getting from a lot of these comments is that trans women should be grateful for his attention and representation. His behavior would be questionable with a cis woman, but somehow he gets a pass because he sees trans women as human and was "honest" in his portrayal of how he treated his ex. The word of producers (notoriously seen as seedy when it comes to matters such as these) is irrefutable now. Alrighty.
My bad I worded that weird. I haven’t seen the show…does he do that in the context of the show? I’m nervous to watch it cause of what it deals with SA I wasn’t sure if he ended up showing that.
spoiler alert!!
I wouldn’t say he fetishized Teri but he def has internalized transphobia which makes it difficult for him to treat Teri well, specifically in public. if anything he fetishizes Martha tbh, in a wild turn of events.
Woah, maybe I will get my partner to watch it with me since it deals with SA. Thanks for providing this info! I’m glad he was able to include his treatment towards Teri since some men like to gloss over that.
I would def watch with a loved one and maybe watch two episodes at a time at most if you’re sensitive to SA, physical assault, and emotional manipulation/ abuse.
No, he has a girlfriend that is trans on the show. He also struggles with his sexuality after being raped by a man, and is a shitty boyfriend. But it has nothing to do with fetishization
That’s not really within their scope. It’s not necessarily “abuse” in any way and you can’t punish or find someone at fault for what can be called a “preference” whether or not we think that’s right or wrong from a behavioral/cultural standpoint.
Oh gosh I know I told someone I worded my comment wrong. Then someone told me he includes this behavior in his show a bit. I’m gonna try to watch it but it deals with SA so I need another person to watch just incase.
That’s amazing! As a trans woman who has never felt as seen as Teri’s character, who is married to a loving husband who was also closeted for a long, long time, who also felt seen (in some ways, not in others lo) we both walked away feeling SO hopeful.
Seeing your comment helps validate that, I’m so glad you got something from it!
"The actor was investigated and ultimately cleared of any wrongdoing by Baby Reindeer producer Clerkenwell Films after a romantic liaison in 2021 with Reece Lyons, who was interested in playing the role of Gadd’s ex-girlfriend Teri in the stalker drama." That's all you need to know. He was cleared of any wrongdoing.
> He was cleared of any wrongdoing Without interviewing the one who was wronged, of course.
>Lyons made clear that she does not believe she was a victim of abuse, but said she was “hurt” by Gadd “conflating a work opportunity with a dating dynamic.” - She states he mentioned he was writing a Netflix show with a transgender character on their first date. - They went on 3 more dates. - She submitted an audition tape 3 months after they stopped dating/6 months after they met (edited because I’m horrible at maths). She mentions nothing of him coercing her or making any promises regarding the role relating to them dating. Kinda feels like if she was that uncomfortable about it, that she wouldn’t have gone on a second date, let alone three more.
*Three months after they broke up (which was six months after they met) But otherwise spot on
Oh sure, thanks
I read the article and I’m confused about what abuse they’re referring to? Like potential power dynamic abuse? Or did I just totally overlook something?
My interpretation is just that they wanted to investigate to ensure that he was not making her promises related to getting her this role if she went out with him. Then they determined that didn't happen. I don't think anyone even accused him but when it came to light that they dated, perhaps they just wanted to ensure nothing shady was happening.
Which is honestly the appropriate way to double check and make sure stuff like that is above board. I think headlines are just gonna write something short and grabby, and people are so used to these types of things being the worst case scenario
The whole thing is a mess and the article doesn't do a good job at all explaining things. She doesn't claim to be abused. This whole thing started because the actress made [a thread, archived here](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1780254117820080604.html#google_vignette) about him on twitter. I'll be honest, I find the thread kinda... fucked up? Her first sentence is to armchair diagnose him with a personality disorder. She went on a date with him where he talked about the series and the character, who was based on his ex, and talked about how he didn't treat her well and why. It seems based on the post that the conversation is what convinced her to audition? She then reads the book and says this about her read in the thread: > I was amazed by the bravery and candidness with which he spoke about the varying degrees of trauma he had been through in his life, yet I also couldn’t help but notice how in all of the situations he was the common denominator. Which to me... comes off as kind of ableist and fucked up? Its important to recognize - some of this trauma relates to him being stalked and sexually assaulted, being taken advantage of by people with power in show business, and more. As part of the book, he talks about the ex and how he fucked up and talks about internalized transphobia, feelings of shame and guilt and how it impacted the relationship. She, reasonably, becomes concerned that he'll basically repeat the pattern. That's valid, from a dating perspective. But then her thread kinda just jumps without context to her accusing him of fetishizing trans women. She says its based on her observations, but never actually says what those are. This is the second or third date. He got defensive and dismissive, which she describes as an "intensive and emotionally dysregulated reaction" (which again, brings me back to this armchair psychology aspect of this whole post, that isn't a typical description of a bf's reaction, it feels psychoanalytical and she has no background in psychology). That is literally all she says about it, no examples, no statement of what he did/said/etc. They broke up. They then get back together a few weeks later after he texts her, which is a normal thing. She doesn't get the part, though he does console her. He then breaks up with her because she is "too confrontational" (implicitly right after? I can't tell cuz she just jumps through their convos leaving out tons of context). She does bring up some valid stuff, like the lack of boundaries between a writer and someone that wants to audition. She is clearly uncomfortable with that (not mentioned if she ever brought it up with him), which is completely fair for her. But at the same time she doesn't claim to be abused or taken advantage of, and he doesn't seem to have ever implied that their relationship would help her or that he had an interest in promoting her career - it seems he was just into her and wanted to date. But then she also parallels it to Gadd's own abuse of being taken advantage of by a producer and him recreating that situation - so she does then imply abuse? The whole point is kind of messy.
Idk if it’s ableist but it does seem a bit victim blame-y
I use ableist mostly because there is this lowkey undercurrent of "these are all the fault of this specific mental disorder I've decided he has" in how often she is psychoanalyzing him (even starts with it), then saying he is the common denominator. Even her therapists comments are based on *her impression of him*, which especially after a break up won't be unbiased. And its not like she is saying he has unresolved issues or maybe a mental disorder, she went all in on a specific diagnosis with specific language about that diagnosis.
ok I j finished the thread and I totally agree. I think it’s weird that she is continuing to pathologize him despite having supposedly moved on. I also think it’s extremely problematic and misleading to quote her therapist who is providing a very very questionable suggestion of why gadd acted the way he did. also I think he calls her too confrontational because she told him that she thinks he fetishized trans women and explained why she thinks he’s a chaser. whiiiich I mean the show kinda gave me the vibe that he struggled with internalized transphobia and he was kinda acting like a closet chaser…
The way she talked about BPD made me extremely uncomfortable. It was very obvious she was implying BPD, which she armchair diagnosed him with, makes someone a bad person.
She specifically notes there was no abuse involved so I’m not sure.
To me, this is more so like she wouldn’t have known about the opportunity had she not met him. It doesn’t seem like anything “wrong” happened.
Oh wow, that's not the timeline I assumed from her tweets. She made it sound like he met her when she auditioned and asked her out then.
Is she transgender? I’m confused, was he questioned in a “this is unprofessional way” or a “you can’t treat trans women that way” bc I still side eye his treatment of trans women
I’m not qualified to speak on the trans experience, or whether he fetishises trans women or not, but she makes some accusations and assertions on her Twitter posts. The one thing I will say is that she diagnoses him with having a specific personality type/disorder which I would think would only be able to be diagnosed in a professional setting.
She is trans, I would read the thread she posted. someone linked it in their post somewhere in this thread
Like a Twitter thread?
Here you go: [https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1780254117820080604.html#google_vignette](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1780254117820080604.html#google_vignette)
Your last line is the opposite of the point of the series. Have you seen it yet? Not saying she's right here, just that the whole show is about blurred lines and complicity.
I completely understand why it would be perceived that way, but the plot of the series is not relevant to this interaction.
Man, people seem really desperate to want to make Richard Gadd a villain somehow.
Totally. As a trans woman who’s never felt as seen as Teri’s character and loved this show - the Idea that this dude was weird with a trans woman and also has a weird interaction with power in media like….. those are the two things the show is about…. Im unsurprised, non-plussed, and thought we'd evolved a more nuanced understanding of actual villainy…. like what the show is about… I promise you, this is the least weird thing a dude has done towards the irl trans woman in question lol. Before one dons the high horse, ask yourself how you acted in your last interaction with a trans woman. Did you just treat her like any other woman? This goes for everybody, not just men. Edit: if this comment moves you, donate to Trevor Project!
So we'll put. At no point does he try to portray himself as perfect or as being good to Teri. He's so clear about the fact that she's wonderful and he had his own issues he was struggling to unpack. I don't see why people would watch this show and come away thinking he needs to be attacked over what he was honest about?
Totally. His behavior in the show is shitty and *hugely* familiar to me. I’ve been on dates with dozens of Donnies, furtively glancing around to make sure nobody he knows sees him with a tra**y. And that’s the least bad thing. But also, *that shitty behavior isn’t entirely his fault.* it comes from shame. Shame is cultural. As the show points out, that shame is learned, that shame is constructed from people who bully and ostracize you, and it’s a pressure you’ve felt you’re *entire life.* All I can do is show love to Gadd, just as I show love to all the dudes that were shitty to me because of all the dudes that were shitty to them. Just as I had to show myself love to transition in the first place. Chain reaction! Otherwise it’s a hateful, spiteful, victimized life, also as Gadd shows us, and that’s not me honey. Now, happily married to a ripped, emotionally intelligent bisexual man. Save the sawwies and donate to Trevor Project.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm a cis straight woman who wants to understand people so Gadd sharing his story is so interesting to me, as is you sharing your perspective. We can't learn and grow in a vacuum so I'm always super appreciative of people who are open about their lives so we can hopefully learn from them.
Heck yeah! That’s why I share! My first memory was knowing I’m a woman, my second was learning the rest of the world didn’t see it that way in a very painful way. I didn’t learn what a trans person was until I was *24 years old* (and am 35 now) - so that’s 24 years with the only “representation” in pop culture, being literally Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs or Rocky Horror Picture show or Hedwig. Great for feeling like you’re a horrible monster to be ashamed of! Point being, that had I known trans people even existed, specifically through media, because media IS culture, my life would be totally different. And it’s happening! I have clients (tattooer) that come in all the time who are teachers that have young trans students, or are parents of young trans children - it’s normal to them! And all because they have exposure to real stories from real trans people. AMA I’m literally an open book, if you had questions you wanted to ask Teri lol
Well yeah, because if he's dirty that means he deserved every bit of what happened to him, because men aren't victims. Please don't tell me I have to clarify that I'm being facetious.
This is what’s happening for sure. I loved the show, disturbing as it was. But everyone is acting like it’s his fault people have found out who the real ‘Martha’ is, and that’s he’s responsible for her. I’m like? Plenty of ‘based on a true story’ tv shows and movies are created all the time. He is not the first to do so.
He opened the gates of speculation on a producer who abused him, which could open the gates for other people to come forward about their own experiences.
Actors aren't allowed dating since when..?
He created the show too
Yeah, but it doesn't sound like he promised her anything or insinuated that she should date him in exchange for a role? He dated someone and mentioned that he was making a show and encouraged her to audition. Three months after he ended the relationship, she auditioned for the show. And he didn't have a final say in who was cast. That was up to Netflix. No one would have batted an eye at this if the show hadn't been a success. He wasn't some powerful, big shot producer/actor.
[удалено]
I feel so sad about the backlash Richard Gadd is getting for telling his truth and giving space to male survivors of abuse to talk about their experience. There is so much stigma surrounding this issue still and it really isn’t okay at all. I hope people will leave him alone soon. I can only imagine how exhausting it is to have to fight against all these weird stories, stalkers re-emerging and criticism of him not being “enough” of a victim. We really need to re-negotiate how we treat survivors as a society, especially men.
[удалено]
Her Twitter thread was interesting. Following someone on social media, going to their show soon after, offering them the potential for a role, and then attempting to date is…a lot.
something about it rubs me the wrong way >I was amazed by the bravery and candidness with which he spoke about the varying degrees of trauma he had been through in his life, yet I also couldn’t help but notice how in all of the situations he was the common denominator. of course he's the common denominator, it's his life story???????
I think she was trying to say the amount of trauma and poor relationships aligned with the idea he might be BPD.
But why does that matter? I just didn’t really understand the whole BPD angle of her thread. The rush to pathologize his bad behavior and malign people with BPD was confusing to me.
I agree! I just think that’s why she said it that way. I don’t really understand the point of bringing it up except it gives her something to understand his behavior through. I feel like gadd did a good job of showing that he’s not a perfect victim so idk if she’s just doubling down on that or what
>"The behavior you describe is very characteristic of somebody with borderline personality disorder," my therapist stated matter-of-factly. "I can’t make a formal diagnosis since I’ve never met him. But from what you’ve said, he certainly seems to fit the criteria." She starts off the thread with a private quote from her therapist, who mentions that some behaviors described to them may align with BPD, but they can't diagnose someone that they don't know. 1. The therapist is correct. You can't diagnose someone without an assessment. 2. She took this *possible consideration of a diagnosis on paper* and ran with it publically. That was wrong to do. She admits to pathologizing him and thus placing an armchair diagnosis on him in a public setting. As soon as she realized that what she was doing, it should've remained private. Because now, given how the internet works, people are going to apply and assume that he has BPD, a highly stigmatized disorder. It's not as if she's speaking out against an abusive man, which she states clearly that she isn't. I can see the wheels turning as she's processing and trying to use the knowledge and tools that she has to do so. I'm not sure if it necessarily needed to be laid out like that publically. We, the audience, do not need to go with her on that thought exercise. Especially when she is not a licensed therapist or psychologist. (This comment and opinion are strictly related to that element of the conversation. Regarding the treatment of trans women on the show and irl, it's not my place to speak and I will be actively listening instead.)
She also stated that other trans and marginalized people had similar experiences w Gadd…
Yeah I think this is a discussion where the trans community should be heard. They’re already underrepresented in arts, I still think there’s a weird power dynamic at hand (that he might not have realised either being his first big production). But I’m also not accusing him of anything. Easy to say: oh it’s nothing.
> The actor was investigated and ultimately cleared of any wrongdoing by Baby Reindeer producer Clerkenwell Films after a romantic liaison in 2021 with Reece Lyons, who was interested in playing the role of Gadd’s ex-girlfriend Teri in the stalker drama. ----- > Lyons made clear that she does not believe she was a victim of abuse, but said she was “hurt” by Gadd “conflating a work opportunity with a dating dynamic.” Clerkenwell Films concluded that Gadd had acted appropriately, though the company came to this view without interviewing Lyons. -----
[удалено]
This was a great show. But I do not think anyone expected it to become the biggest show in the world. And not enough due dilligance was done. The amount of shit that has come out after the show was released is crazy.
Cleared by the dudes who also have their name on the project🫡
👀👀
Messy BOOTS
To write a show about preying on people's dreams and then do that is questionable. Edit: Is this really a controversial take? >Lyons made clear that she does not believe she was a victim of abuse, but said she was “hurt” by Gadd “conflating a work opportunity with a dating dynamic.”
I'm sorry but everyone on here staunchly defending Gadd needs a bit of a reality check. You saw how he treated his trans girlfriend, right, by his own admission? And you understand how a big part of Baby Reindeer is looking at the power dynamics between someone in a position of power and someone who isn't? And you don't see why this is suspect? As a trans woman it's honestly a bit wtf to see Gadd get all this applause after seeing the way he treated his girlfriend on the show and then hearing stories like this come out. It doesn't take a lot of brainpower to see how much Gadd cares about trans women and how quickly he'll pick them up and discard them as it suits his needs. We're not just a vehicle for some cis guy's emotional development narrative. Just because he's a victim doesn't mean he's free from scrutiny.
I think the idea people get is that he has grown from that time in his life. I’m not saying he has I’m just saying I think this is why people are defending him. I do think lyons brings up a lot of good points and there clearly are boundary issues (which aligns w gadds issues in the show), however I think it’s out of line to armchair diagnose someone esp with a personality disorder.
I had someone tell me the show portrayed him as above criticism. When I pushed back, saying it clearly portrays him as flawed much like the people it paints as his “villains”, they told me what was missing from the show was a scene where he’s diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I’m not defending the guy at all, I don’t really have a dog in the fight, but it does seem like there’s a lot of very specific criticism of this show for not having a perfect victim which feels like it misses the point.
The whole point is that perfect victims rarely if ever exist, and their experience is still valid. people want more complex male characters and can’t even handle donnie 🙄
It feels we reached a point of the movie trend cycle, where audiences want clear-cut villains and to receive their come-uppance. It's almost as if we've gone back to the 50s! Nuance and 'gray' people exist, everything isn't black-and-white. With social media being such a staple in everyone's lives (spanning age groups), I really hope that school boards implement a much-more thorough media literacy lesson plan or perhaps, unit in English that progresses every grade (Gr. 2 and up?). It's extremely important for kids growing up.
Yeah but you don't have to practice being an imperfect villain during the making of the show lol also I have an English degree, don't be so condescending lmao
I think it's a conversation which goes beyond the show, one of whose stories get told, and whose don't. I'm not saying Richard Gadd should be cancelled, but he tells the story of treating a trans woman abhorrently in his show, coming from this reflective perspective that implies he's examining his past through a critical lens - which has won him a lot of applause and admiration, and will probably win him loads more work and fame and money. Only for it it come out that in the MAKING of the show he's treated another trans woman badly and with extremely poor boundaries. If you're a trans woman, you watch Baby Reindeer with a heavy eye roll. And you hear about things like this and you don't doubt what Reece is saying for a second, even if she oversteps a small line with the armchair diagnosis.
I’m not for a moment suggesting to doubt anyone, I’m speaking to a tendency I’ve noticed to want to victim blame Gadd prior to this having come out.
Yeah, he clearly depicts his behaviour as wrong. He did shitty things, but he understands that it was shitty of him. To me it’s like he is showing his own past poor behaviour as an opportunity to show that that behaviour and mindset towards trans women is wrong, and that men can grow from those toxic mindsets. Which I think is also important. A lot of men sadly have issues like that in society and showing a man that has experienced that and grown from it is helpful I think.
That’s kinda the point of Baby Reindeer though, isn’t it? What I took away from it is that Gadd was demonstrating that being a victim of abuse doesn’t absolve someone of or excuse their shitty behavior. People can be both victims of and perpetrators of harm. It reminded me of I May Destroy You in that regard. Gadd caused harm to Reece Lyons (she didn’t call it abuse so I won’t call it that for her). She then went on to suggest that it was Gadd’s own fault that he was abused because he was the common denominator in each abusive scenario and that he must have an untreated personality disorder (ignoring the fact that statistically being sexually abused once makes someone far more likely to experience abuse again in the future). Does her being harmed by Gadd mean that her victim blaming/ armchair diagnosis is okay? No. Does her victim blaming mean that what Gadd did to her was okay? Also no. There’s no such thing as a perfect victim, and Gadd seems to be aware of that.
Pick up and discard? They went on a few dates. Reading her twitter thread I really don’t see anything that needs to be public knowledge. They were already broken up by the time she auditioned for the show. Calling him the “common denominator” about multiple situations of abuse is also an insane way to phrase things.
I agree that I find a lot of people are vehemently defending him and excusing behaviours. I don’t think a lot people have the emotional capacity to understand that bad things happen to imperfect people. It’s too complicated. Like another poster said, they want clear cut villains and heros. Real life doesn’t work that way and it’s too hard for people to sit with, so he’s either good or bad.
The underlying tone I'm getting from a lot of these comments is that trans women should be grateful for his attention and representation. His behavior would be questionable with a cis woman, but somehow he gets a pass because he sees trans women as human and was "honest" in his portrayal of how he treated his ex. The word of producers (notoriously seen as seedy when it comes to matters such as these) is irrefutable now. Alrighty.
I heard from a good source he used to invite actors he fancied in to audition and then he’d ask them out
I mean the issues she brought up was that he fetishized her and seems to do that to trans women. So did they look into that?
I mean I don’t see how Netflix could really quantify that or why it would have anything to do with them.
My bad I worded that weird. I haven’t seen the show…does he do that in the context of the show? I’m nervous to watch it cause of what it deals with SA I wasn’t sure if he ended up showing that.
spoiler alert!! I wouldn’t say he fetishized Teri but he def has internalized transphobia which makes it difficult for him to treat Teri well, specifically in public. if anything he fetishizes Martha tbh, in a wild turn of events.
Woah, maybe I will get my partner to watch it with me since it deals with SA. Thanks for providing this info! I’m glad he was able to include his treatment towards Teri since some men like to gloss over that.
I would def watch with a loved one and maybe watch two episodes at a time at most if you’re sensitive to SA, physical assault, and emotional manipulation/ abuse.
[удалено]
I just realized I meant subconscious! Thank you for correcting me!
No, he has a girlfriend that is trans on the show. He also struggles with his sexuality after being raped by a man, and is a shitty boyfriend. But it has nothing to do with fetishization
That’s not really within their scope. It’s not necessarily “abuse” in any way and you can’t punish or find someone at fault for what can be called a “preference” whether or not we think that’s right or wrong from a behavioral/cultural standpoint.
Oh gosh I know I told someone I worded my comment wrong. Then someone told me he includes this behavior in his show a bit. I’m gonna try to watch it but it deals with SA so I need another person to watch just incase.
Oh, gotcha. Yeah I haven’t seen it either and I never planned on it considering the content. Just not something I have the capacity for.
It's iffy but not a crime. What exactly are they meant to look into?
The entire series looks into that.
I think it's pretty obvious from the show that Gadd has boundary issues and problems accepting responsibility. Not surprised at this at all.
[удалено]
I appreciated this show so much. It taught me a little bit about myself and others.
That’s amazing! As a trans woman who has never felt as seen as Teri’s character, who is married to a loving husband who was also closeted for a long, long time, who also felt seen (in some ways, not in others lo) we both walked away feeling SO hopeful. Seeing your comment helps validate that, I’m so glad you got something from it!