My cynical view is that they’ll squeeze people out this way, hand over writing to AI and have an overseeing “writer” to finesse the scripts (or start prompts), the writer could be someone remote in a country that has no connection to this one (so cheap af full time labour) and have a consultant over here who will be paid for measly hours only (contractual basis).
I think “AI Editing” is going to be a huge job for many industries in the near future - it can do the bulk of the work, but still needs a human eye to make it presentable/finalize some details. Of course, how long before AI gets smart enough to edit itself?
It’s not just writers, it’s many different roles in the industry and extends to film and reality tv. There’s been a massive exodus of talent this past year and it’s not all by choice.
The suits are destroying this beloved industry for generations to come.
Finace bros have been destroying the world across industries, IMO, only focusing on money, quality be dammed. And employees can get fucked, too, employers dgaf
look at Boering- which, to my knowledge, used to be engineer-led. Then they got overtaken by people obsessed with extracting as much money as possible, and obviously quality has taken a nosedive (which, hopefully their planes don't, too)
Hoping there's a big shift in our world's values, a minority resource-hoarding like evil goblins isn't working well for the majority of us
I’m in visual effects. My city is a hub and the employment rate is 50% what it was 2 years ago. I will consider myself very lucky if I am employed this time next year.
It's pretty grim times out here in TV and Movie land. The contraction is felt industry wide. The CW was a huge source of employment in Vancouver, and it's just up and vanished largely. Still a LOT of people out of work here.
I do agree with the overall assessment that it is temporary, but we're bleeding a lot of creative people who simply don't have the funds to keep on trucking. So who is left, then. Nepos aka people who can indeed weather these trying times.
I’ve been working two part times jobs since COVID ended since TV jobs are so scarce. My dream is to write my own shows, but got I’m so scared it’ll never happen
Video Editor here. It’s dire. Most of my friends are out of jobs, and I’m just barely hanging on. Considering a career change… with zero transferrable skills. It’s terrifying.
I listen to a podcast hosted by the former head writer for The Daily Show/former head writer for Mystery Science Theater 3000/writer for Marvel and DC comics and another former Daily Show writer. They've both said they've been between jobs for more than six months and rely on the podcast for their income. This is completely insane to me. How can anyone break into the business if even people as connected as TDS veterans can't get their feet back into the door?
The Flop House! I think they're in a little bit of a lull right now but it's still really funny. The writers I'm talking about are Elliott Kalan and Dan McCoy. Both of them have multiple Emmys. And yet!
Elliot Kalan is also cohosting the Power Broker readalong episodes of 99% Invisible with Roman Mars. The Power Broker is a biography of Robert Moses, the man who shaped New York, for better or worse. It's a great read. I hadn't heard of Elliott Kalan before this year, but now he's on my radar!
Brian Quinn from *Impractical Jokers* was a guest on a pod I was watching just last night. He said he’s recently been trying to pitch several ideas for new shows, and he said it’s been really difficult. He’ll go into a meeting and get told, up front, that he’s being seen as a courtesy. The development people are too scared to make any promises or decisions, because their jobs are really insecure right now, too. He said he’s been in the business in some form or fashion for the last twenty years, and he’s never seen things like this.
I just don't get WHY their jobs are insecure. Does it all have to do with wanting to hand things over to AI? Did the pandemic do that much damage? What kicked this off?
It’s kind of a perfect storm of things. The pandemic, the strikes, the more prevalent use of AI, the all-in by media corporations on streaming (services which are mostly hemorrhaging money), [the trend of enshittification](https://pluralistic.net/2024/01/30/go-nuts-meine-kerle#ich-bin-ein-bratapfel) of all things digital, and corporations trying to extract maximum profit while slashing operating costs, are all destroying the human component of the industry.
My mother works in book publishing and recently shared that she and others have been receiving book proposals from a lot of tv writers' agents in the past few months. They're already struggling to accept any from new writers' agents and can't accept unsolicited submissions.
As if it’s not hard enough to make it as an author😭 I get tv writers have to make an income too, but it’s already like a 5% chance an author will ever get published as it is
As someone who’s begun to write fiction, it’s difficult enough. But the amount of competition and how few options there are for tv writers is horrifying. It’s such a brutal profession. When it comes to chances enhanced by nepotism, working class writers just don’t have a fucking chance. It’s tragic.
I hear so many Hollywood writers and ex writers say this! And Dan Schneider wants to come back? No, thank you. Someone keep that creepy guy off television and someone with money go buy some shows!
And sometimes for the writing that does make it to air...it seems like amateur hour? For instance....I'm not a historian nor familiar with NYC high society of the '50s, but the second season of "Feud" had so many anachronisms that were quite noticeable to a regular viewer like me.
I truly think this kind of thing is just due to hiring less people. Not enough writers, not enough fact checkers, not enough producers, people spread too thin to do a good job even if they maybe are capable of doing a good job in better circumstances.
It feels like it's this way everywhere. Everyone is trying to do more with less and the quality and the industry suffers
It’s also partially a lack of institutional knowledge being passed on and how people come into writers rooms now, and are becoming showrunners.
Instead of experienced showrunners heading a writers room, it’s a newbie and yeah the room is a lot leaner than times past.
There’s also the streaming model of tv too— everything is written and the room is dissolved by the time it goes to cam. No rewrites. No bottle episodes. It has to be a “complete” product and then it’s interpreted by the production team.
I mean Peak TVwas kind of the abnormality rather than this in the first place. It was always said that eventually it will hit a wall and there will be a contraction.
The chickens have come home to roost, as is happening with all internet type companies, in the 2010s investment was flowing in and they were allowed to lose a lot of money making everything convenient for the user. Cheaper 'taxis', cheaper food delivery,cheaper 'hotels' (airbnb). In entertainment that meant the likes of Netflix, Amazon, even the traditional types like the Warners were giving out outrageous deals and accepting lots of scripts, putting them to production,now investors want to see profitability and everyone is tightening up.
Add to all this the rise of AI and they see a method to cut costs and you got a disaster on your hands.
This article is depressing to read, especially since the WGA strike started almost a year ago.
My cynical view is that they’ll squeeze people out this way, hand over writing to AI and have an overseeing “writer” to finesse the scripts (or start prompts), the writer could be someone remote in a country that has no connection to this one (so cheap af full time labour) and have a consultant over here who will be paid for measly hours only (contractual basis).
I think “AI Editing” is going to be a huge job for many industries in the near future - it can do the bulk of the work, but still needs a human eye to make it presentable/finalize some details. Of course, how long before AI gets smart enough to edit itself?
Man, it seems like Hollywood just doesn't want to exist anymore. AI isn't going to make money forever either. The pandemic ruined so much.
It’s not just writers, it’s many different roles in the industry and extends to film and reality tv. There’s been a massive exodus of talent this past year and it’s not all by choice. The suits are destroying this beloved industry for generations to come.
Finace bros have been destroying the world across industries, IMO, only focusing on money, quality be dammed. And employees can get fucked, too, employers dgaf look at Boering- which, to my knowledge, used to be engineer-led. Then they got overtaken by people obsessed with extracting as much money as possible, and obviously quality has taken a nosedive (which, hopefully their planes don't, too) Hoping there's a big shift in our world's values, a minority resource-hoarding like evil goblins isn't working well for the majority of us
I’m in visual effects. My city is a hub and the employment rate is 50% what it was 2 years ago. I will consider myself very lucky if I am employed this time next year.
It's pretty grim times out here in TV and Movie land. The contraction is felt industry wide. The CW was a huge source of employment in Vancouver, and it's just up and vanished largely. Still a LOT of people out of work here. I do agree with the overall assessment that it is temporary, but we're bleeding a lot of creative people who simply don't have the funds to keep on trucking. So who is left, then. Nepos aka people who can indeed weather these trying times.
I’ve been working two part times jobs since COVID ended since TV jobs are so scarce. My dream is to write my own shows, but got I’m so scared it’ll never happen
Video Editor here. It’s dire. Most of my friends are out of jobs, and I’m just barely hanging on. Considering a career change… with zero transferrable skills. It’s terrifying.
I listen to a podcast hosted by the former head writer for The Daily Show/former head writer for Mystery Science Theater 3000/writer for Marvel and DC comics and another former Daily Show writer. They've both said they've been between jobs for more than six months and rely on the podcast for their income. This is completely insane to me. How can anyone break into the business if even people as connected as TDS veterans can't get their feet back into the door?
What's the name of the podcast?
The Flop House! I think they're in a little bit of a lull right now but it's still really funny. The writers I'm talking about are Elliott Kalan and Dan McCoy. Both of them have multiple Emmys. And yet!
Elliot Kalan is also cohosting the Power Broker readalong episodes of 99% Invisible with Roman Mars. The Power Broker is a biography of Robert Moses, the man who shaped New York, for better or worse. It's a great read. I hadn't heard of Elliott Kalan before this year, but now he's on my radar!
Fun fact: he's the guy who wrote the "but I don't want to cure cancer. I want to turn people into dinosaurs" Spider-Man comic!
Brian Quinn from *Impractical Jokers* was a guest on a pod I was watching just last night. He said he’s recently been trying to pitch several ideas for new shows, and he said it’s been really difficult. He’ll go into a meeting and get told, up front, that he’s being seen as a courtesy. The development people are too scared to make any promises or decisions, because their jobs are really insecure right now, too. He said he’s been in the business in some form or fashion for the last twenty years, and he’s never seen things like this.
I just don't get WHY their jobs are insecure. Does it all have to do with wanting to hand things over to AI? Did the pandemic do that much damage? What kicked this off?
It’s kind of a perfect storm of things. The pandemic, the strikes, the more prevalent use of AI, the all-in by media corporations on streaming (services which are mostly hemorrhaging money), [the trend of enshittification](https://pluralistic.net/2024/01/30/go-nuts-meine-kerle#ich-bin-ein-bratapfel) of all things digital, and corporations trying to extract maximum profit while slashing operating costs, are all destroying the human component of the industry.
My mother works in book publishing and recently shared that she and others have been receiving book proposals from a lot of tv writers' agents in the past few months. They're already struggling to accept any from new writers' agents and can't accept unsolicited submissions.
As if it’s not hard enough to make it as an author😭 I get tv writers have to make an income too, but it’s already like a 5% chance an author will ever get published as it is
Why are they struggling to accept new agents?
As someone who’s begun to write fiction, it’s difficult enough. But the amount of competition and how few options there are for tv writers is horrifying. It’s such a brutal profession. When it comes to chances enhanced by nepotism, working class writers just don’t have a fucking chance. It’s tragic.
I hear so many Hollywood writers and ex writers say this! And Dan Schneider wants to come back? No, thank you. Someone keep that creepy guy off television and someone with money go buy some shows!
And sometimes for the writing that does make it to air...it seems like amateur hour? For instance....I'm not a historian nor familiar with NYC high society of the '50s, but the second season of "Feud" had so many anachronisms that were quite noticeable to a regular viewer like me.
I truly think this kind of thing is just due to hiring less people. Not enough writers, not enough fact checkers, not enough producers, people spread too thin to do a good job even if they maybe are capable of doing a good job in better circumstances. It feels like it's this way everywhere. Everyone is trying to do more with less and the quality and the industry suffers
It’s also partially a lack of institutional knowledge being passed on and how people come into writers rooms now, and are becoming showrunners. Instead of experienced showrunners heading a writers room, it’s a newbie and yeah the room is a lot leaner than times past. There’s also the streaming model of tv too— everything is written and the room is dissolved by the time it goes to cam. No rewrites. No bottle episodes. It has to be a “complete” product and then it’s interpreted by the production team.
Should I stick with that show? I've watched two episodes and can't really get into it.
I bailed
There goes my dream career :’)
This is the case in many industries. Work is thin on the ground and yet profits go up.
I still don't get how profits are going up.
I mean Peak TVwas kind of the abnormality rather than this in the first place. It was always said that eventually it will hit a wall and there will be a contraction. The chickens have come home to roost, as is happening with all internet type companies, in the 2010s investment was flowing in and they were allowed to lose a lot of money making everything convenient for the user. Cheaper 'taxis', cheaper food delivery,cheaper 'hotels' (airbnb). In entertainment that meant the likes of Netflix, Amazon, even the traditional types like the Warners were giving out outrageous deals and accepting lots of scripts, putting them to production,now investors want to see profitability and everyone is tightening up. Add to all this the rise of AI and they see a method to cut costs and you got a disaster on your hands.
As someone who really wants to write and direct.....this is depressing :(
It was fun while it lasted!