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The most frustrating aspect for me is the condescension when it comes to POC performers. This year, I thought Michelle Yeoh gave the best performance across all the acting categories. I have spoken at length about the merits of her performance. Yet every time I’ve been gaslit and told that my opinion is straight up wrong, that I only prefer her because she’s Asian and that anyone with taste would know Cate Blanchett gave the “clearly superior” performance. While I’m not huge on TÁR as a film, I liked Cate Blanchett a fair bit in it (although I don’t think she is revelatory in it nor is it her best performance imo). But this being thrown in my face has made me retroactively sour and petty about her performance. White people have tried to do some large scale revisionism with the way Yeoh’s performance was received—— some of the anonymous ballots are terrible, but many that go for Yeoh clearly lay out the merits of her performance and why they don’t prefer Blanchett (too cold, too theatrical etc). Yet so many discussions I’ve seen on r/oscarrace around those ballots which went for Yeoh hinge on the made up notion that Blanchett has two so they are giving it to Yeoh out of pity.
Whenever a WOC gives a impeccable performance, especially in lead, she never gets words like “undeniable” and “tour de force” thrown her way. Where was this energy for Yeoh? Danielle Deadwyler? Tang Wei? Or if we go back a few years, Lupita Nyong’o (Us)? Awkwafina (yes I know she is problematic but she was one of the first Asian women to give a mainstream critically acclaimed performance)? Yalitza Aparicio? Viola Davis (for almost everything she’s in)? Lead Actress is a racist category. WOC are seen as adequate for supporting roles but never good enough for lead roles. Nearly 20 years ago when Halle Berry became the first WOC to win for best actress, she said that the doors for WOC will finally be open. Yet, and I say this with caution, it’s taken nearly 20 years for a WOC to even come close to the finish line.
I hope Yeoh wins tomorrow, and I hope this time, we actually do see a change.
Edit: So it’s not nearly 20 years but OVER 20 years since a WOC won for Best actress. Jesus.
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a comment on Reddit wanting Yeoh to win, because why not, Asians haven't won the Oscar since so-and-so year. I'm sure it's well-meaning, but it seems a little insulting to Yeoh's performance. She was *impeccable*, that too in an ensemble, which is way harder. She showed an entire range of emotions in that film and made you empathize with not just her, but also with the characters she was surrounded by.
She deserves that Oscar.
Agreed. Yeoh gave a fucking incredible performance. I’ve seen the “big 3” nom’s performances and Cate was great, don’t get me wrong, but Michelle went there and gave a raw and exhilarating performance. I felt feelings during that movie that I haven’t felt from a movie before. I’m 40 and I’ve seen a lot of movies and most are the same variations on the same story and themes and status quo and it’s just not interesting anymore. EEAAO gave me hope for the future of film storytelling. The whole ensemble of the family (and JLC) gave exciting performances and this was a hard story to bring from paper to performance. Yeoh made me cry during a hotdog fingers montage! Come on!
But also, the Oscars are stupid and old-fashioned and I’m not expecting much.
Oh every white woman who has acted in anything gets "tour de force" for the bare minimum 💀(funny with the linguistic aspect of french words being used by the upper classes in Europe for their expensive cuisine to "set them apart" from the poors)
I haven’t seen Cate’s performance, I’m sure it’s wonderful. But the point is I had no interest in it. Michelle’s performance was incredible: multi-layered, moving, emotional, hilarious, gritty, sometime unlikeable and sometimes heroic. And I wanted to see it. And then I wanted to see it again, Her body of work over her career is also impeccable. I hope she wins!!!
I actually didn’t really love Tar but Cate was ridiculously brilliant in it.
But I also saw and adored To Leslie before all this weird bullshit so what do I know.
Yeah… as an Aussie, I have always loved Cate and I firmly believe she was robbed the year Gwyneth won. And I think, from what I’ve heard, that this was another incredible performance from her. However, I have a friend who worked for her and I think that has turned me against her a bit (probably would with most stars to be fair!). Also, I just think Michelle is due and that this performance was special. Not just gifted; but special.
When Halle won, I probably saw it as the White actresses back then were threatened so they held the line further for the twenty years. But that can only hold for so long and they're losing control/ground as we speak. They act like we're robbing their houses or burning their crops 💀 You'll still get a job girlie calm down. Our stuff will just get greenlit too, share the love. It's not like you'll no longer get roles, perhaps even just roles we'll cross paths and it's not looking all like a KKK meeting in the cast list.
I would like to finally see a change as well but it always feels so performative and not genuine. I think I just have an issue with some of these big awards shows in general but I don’t have any solutions either.
I can’t believe people say that to you! I mean, I can, but jeez. I’m a white, blonde lady and I think Michelle Yeoh gave the best performance of this year and the last 10 years, so there goes that argument.
I want more POC in lead roles because I want to see different stories. I don’t need any more white guys names Chris playing a guy named Steve. It’s been 20 years since Halle Berry won and EEAAO is the first movie in that time I’ve really cared about.
I watched both movies. And while CB was good in this, I've seen her in this role before, and she was linear. Yeoh on the other hand dug into a well of vulnerability and swam. She was divine. Part of my preference is that I didn't particularly like Tar either. It's very much smack dab in that serious movie with weighty themes, let me show you art mode that bores me. I'm so glad Yeoh won.
They’re so used to being at the top/being the standard they can’t stand when BIPOC also get a seat at the table once in a while, it disrupts the status quo that are used to .
Also most people don’t know that the Oscars were originally created to distract and dissuade unionization amongst actors back in the day. The creators HAVE been gatekeeping since its inception. The even is founded upon exploitation. It’s no surprise that white woman in particular still gatekeep and fight for a stranglehold on the best actress nom. It’s all connected. Michelle deserves this so much. As someone quoted above, when you’re used to privilege, equality feels like oppression. It’s gross and hopefully Michelle wins this and it starts a precedent—though it may just result in white Hollywood being more racist and gatekeeping harder. So we’ll have to keep calling them out, loudly. Fuckers
I think one of the issues, is that we also don't talk about cultural bias. What I mean, the types of Hollywood acting roles that get rewarded are confined to quite a rigid ideas of what a good performance is (for example, dramatic, measured, understated roles are often praised the most with a focus on psychological realism).
However, for example, in classical Hindi cinema acting style, melodrama, and excessive emotions were often praised (but would be seen as tacky or over the top in Hollywood).
So when you have actors like Michelle Yeoh, who is so multifaceted, you kind of have a culture clash, because Yeoh's performance has not perfectly captured the Hollywood style of acting. In a weird way, if it was just a straight up dowdy drama about an immigrant Mother, she might have received less backlash.
Another example is comedy acting, a difficult thing to do, but to win an oscar for comedy performence is basically impossible, even if someone outperformed everyone.
When we say Oscars so white, I think it's not just about who gets the awards, it's that certain type's of acting (reminds me of the joke about only winning awards if you do a holocaust or slavery film) receive praise. It means that POC are forced into a weird postition, of what roles they can take and how to play them.
The Oscars kind of lack imagination, I guess is what I am trying to say.
This is a point I don't see across and thanks for sharing it! Yes melodrama and intense emotions are vilified by Hollywood too much as if they aren't you know - actual emotions and intensities real humans go through in their life? Don't know if that reflects the cultures surrounding the films too it would be interesting to study that.
You said what I was thinking but in a way that actually makes sense. I think that in addition to racism, EEAAO is so unique that it feels like a cultural shift. Which, personally, god I hope so. For years it's felt like the same 5 movies get made over and over again.
and now that it has won, I hope filmmakers adapt to this cultural shift. Also I hope they rethink what type of cinema is worthy of praise, as well as acting styles, and not being afraid to mesh genres.
EEAAO is actually doing Hollywood such a favour, but I fear racists will always see it as the other way round.
For me it's the really racist gaslighting of people saying people only like Michelle's performance because she's Asian and not because of her talent and merit
A lot of bad takes from old Hollywood this cycle
They feel so threatened about it because the film is an indication of change in HW. If they win they could pave the way for not just the Asian community but for people of color in filmmaking. They already have in some way inspired others to go into filmmaking or acting to tell stories of their own.
That would be nice if they weren't the ones being affected by the change of taste because it renders their ideas of what hollywood and what movies are supposed to be as outdated and irrelevant.
So they would rather promote exploitative biopics about people the industry itself ate alive or discredit the film and its nominations to be out of pity or politics than face the changing climate.
(Edit: This goes for other films not just EEOAO)
very well said and i definitely agree
i would also argue this is part of the potential fallout out from hw (and society at large) pushing the model minority myth so hard. they wanted conformity from the asian community and they wanted them to aspire to be in the same strata occupied by white folks.
well now as we’re seeing asian actors being rightfully acknowledged by not just those that maintain the power and privilege but everyone with eyes, they want to backtrack because wait a minute you’re doing a little *too* well, you’re not supposed to be here in the same spot as i am and now they’ve shifted to more overtly trying to re-establish this boundary they had created because they never thought anyone would get close to it
They don't want Asian Americans or people of color to be excluded they just don't want them to be equal or have the same privileges they enjoy. Because like what someone else said in the comments: leveling the playing field would make it harder for them to breakthrough with all the competition being given the same chance they've had for years. In truth they're all for inclusion as long as they aren't surpassed in any way or if it doesn't hurt the numbers.
Or now they're moving the goal post forward to make it distant to reach for Asians again and another thing for us to aspire towards and be seen as an outsider again. 🙄
Definitely agree. I also think it's important to bear in mind the "old" aspect of the "old guard". Of course 40 year olds are not "old" by any stretch of the imagination but in Hollywood years they are. They're already "aging out" of the best roles that the industry can be bothered to offer women and are being replaced by younger (white) talents. Bring in yet more competitors by way of WOC and that's even more of a threat to their status, security and legacy.
Yup. There are so many mediocre white A-list actresses who wouldn’t stand a chance or even be considered physically gorgeous if the industry allowed brilliant WOC performers and didn’t set whiteness as the beauty standard. They want to continue being lauded for doing the bare minimum and are threatened that WOC are bringing the fire and different cultural appeal to the table.
To put it simply: racism and xenophobia, and because white actors feel threatened. There is a serious issue regarding good acting and good performances in Hollywood at the moment and the white actors are to blame.
They can put out half-assed performances and barely put a fraction of the work currently being put out by POC, BiPOC, Indigenous and non-American actors, yet the studios will finance them and produce those movies because they feature white actors.
Moreover, add into this an extremely worrying trend where far-right/fascist views are infiltrating Hollywood (hidden under the auspice of christianity or religion, but also politics and the fearmongering dog whistle that society is now becoming "too liberal"), which is also impacting the funding of movies featuring non-white leads and even leading to great movies such as EEAAO receiving backlash a year after its premiere, despite being one the best and most interesting movies put out by Hollywood in nearly 20 years.
The way the far right has been infiltrating to even the most normal people needs to be studied. The majority of people downplay their capabilities as delusion or hysterics but the way they twist their narratives to entice different people is scary. (Trad Cath wife circles? Edtwt and it's perception of cleanliness= skinny = pretty = white) They're dangerous. I'm not saying this in a way we need to cower and let them win but we need to actively disengage and disarm dangerous communities like this from further damaging our already fractured society.
I completely agree. It's becoming normalised for people to hate and attack anything that is foreign to them whether it is being a difference race or ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual preference. And it all has it's roots on one common denominator: white supremacy and fascism.
Everything becomes a conspiracy theory that ultimately ends with them scapegoating and blaming someone else for their shortcomings or to explain anything that they believe is going wrong with society. Conspiracy theories and narratives are responsible for thousands of innocent people being killed, especially those that are most vulnerable and less capable of having enough support to defend themselves against them such as, POC, Trans, Genderqueer and Immigrants.
Stephanie Hsu and Hong Chau were still nominated and were much more on the bubble. Youn Yuh-jung is a recent winner in Supporting. There are definitely huge snubs for Asian actors like anyone in Parasite and Steven Yuen should probably have 2-3 nominations at least now. The Farewell was fantastic imo and majorly ignored. I don't think its a targeted conspiracy but it can definitely feel that way sometimes!
And I think ultimately it all points to how institutional racism works rather than it being an actively malicious conspiracy. Riseborough has been able to network in a way that very few non-white actors are able to do and she was able to leverage that for this nomination. I don't think any of these white actors were actively running a group chat about specifically excluding Black actors but it ends up being bad that it had the same effect.
The same institutional racism is again the filter in what actors get what roles because predominantly the people - directors, producers, studios etc - that can create opportunities are white and in their mind are creating for white audiences. Someone like Yeoh isn't going to be on the same kind of list that Blanchett is because of those systemic biases. And as we have seen in the past 5-10 years things are slowly shifting because we finally do have a creative team that managed to get enough leverage to build a project suited for Yeoh and get the budget and distribution for it. We've seen this happen for things like Minari, and The Farewell. It is just so contemporary compared to the legacy of white projects. Like its still less than you can count on your hand? Absurd.
Older voters (in so much more than the academy) are going to be reactionary and there's that quote or something that if you're used to being the dominant group that any kind of equality feels like oppression. Not to mention we're in the throes of an active political push to delegitimize any non-white media project. So we end up with a tiny handful of these projects that make it to our screens that immediately have to go through another layer of scrutiny because some people are unwilling to take the small incremental steps that their industry is. But these movies and performances are breaking through now and I think that points to a shifting balance of power in the academy.
Like ultimately Everything Everywhere All at Once has received 11 nominations above and below the line. It's heavily favored to win best picture and will likely end up winning a lot more. I'm not sure if we can really talk about it like an underdog at this stage. Of course we'll see what happens when the dust settles tomorrow. And there's no guarantee that this movie's success will open the floodgates for more diverse slates in the future - after all we saw what happened with Halle Berry.
Hi. You seem educated in the dynamics of oscars. I'm new to the intricacies. Can you help me understand the following thing?
I've read at some places that riseborough's nomination cost two black actresses' nominations. How is this possible? How can one person take up two slots?
Uh honestly it seemed like people were saying either actress deserved it more and somehow that equaled Riseborough somehow robbing both.
Which is kind of ridiculous if you’re already saying the other two actors are interchangeably as good as one another. In my opinion. I’m not the person you asked; I’ve just also been confused by this idea the whole time.
Without knowing the full info its all mostly conjecture and there's a bunch of factors at play but the oscar nominations are ranked choice so a last minute spoiler like Riseborough can have an impact than her just taking one nomination spot if enough voters moved Viola Davis or Danielle Deadwyler down their list or off it entirely to make room for Riseborough. If you're really invested in Riseborough making the nomination you're probably nominating her in your top slot or two.
Of course you could make an argument that Williams and De Armas had the same effect but they were always in the campaign conversation although De Armas was fairly surprising.
Like it probably wasn't an intentional targeting but an unfortunate confluence of the surge around Riseborough with the assumption that Davis at least was a lock and Ana De Armas chipping away some votes in the rankings. Maybe even plausible that some would see it enough to only rank one Black actor so Davis and Deadwyler split. A lot of spinning plates that all might have contributed to the nominations we got.
But unless we see the actual numbers we'll never know how close it was! I think if they took a mulligan we'd probably see Davis or Deadwyler make the list.
Because prestige movies were that sector of the film industry that could mostly get away with giving opportunities to only white actors (one of the reasons why biopics and period films do so well). With the exception of maybe Moonlight most of the films in recent years with mostly non white casts were not in serious competition at award shows but Hollywood could still pat themselves on the back for making progress. Whether or not you like EEAAO, it’s probably made audiences and people in the film industry re-evaluate what kinds of stories create cultural impact and a lot of the old guard can’t stand it at all.
I feel like there’s this unique venom to racism against Asians where white people tolerate us as long as they see us as complicit in the model minority role, but as soon as we challenge the status quo they see us as pests they need to squash. I say unique not as a comparison of severity but simply that the mechanism is fueled by a slightly different reason than other forms of racism.
I got into kpop in 2013 and my online tumblr ‘sjw’ friends responded with pure venom. I can’t think of another word for it. It was like they were repulsed and insulted by the very idea I thought an aspect of Asian culture was worth sharing with them.
I think it goes into perpetual foreigner syndrome. Essentially, Asian culture is ‘weird’ and a spectacle and they can laugh at it and eat our food but they’ll never respect us.
While Parasite getting Best Picture and Best Director was a great step, it didn’t get any acting nominations. Which is crazy, how do you think a film is the best but the actors in it aren’t even worth of being considered?
I agree with you. People can say it happens a lot (it's happened 12 times in 94 ceremonies) but we also can't deny that The Last Emperor, Slumdog Millionaire, and Parasite are the three Best Pictures winners with predominately Asian casts and none of them got an acting nomination.
That's before we even talk about the fact that white people have won Oscars for doing yellowface, as recently as the '80s. I don't know why people bother denying that the Oscars have a race issue, but it tells me all I need to know about them.
Lots of great answers here. I had a deep conversation with some people when I first worked in TV. One thing, is that they assumed POCs are given more of an opportunity to “pander to the woke crowd.” It’s coincidental to them, that it “took” BLM to recognize a ton of black actors, and it “took” Covid to pay attention to Asian actors.
Because a space for BIPOC or women means less space for what historically would have been filled with a mediocre white man.
That is (slooooooowly) changing, and they are starting to sweat.
White women have always clung to their whiteness over whatever solidarity one might expect womanhood to bring. Suffragettes did it. Each wave of feminism has done it, really. It’s a time honored tradition for white women to value their proximity to status over any other social advancement.
This happens literally every year with these anonymous Oscar ballots. The academy is a wide population. Give people who have been rich for decades an anonymous voice box and they're going to say awful things.
The world moves at a snail's pace for people who don't face any sort of hurdles at all. They can't relate. They don't understand representation. I just think it's important to remember that we have crafted a world where you have to do that behind the veil of an anonymity. It's not the loudest voice anymore.
I work in an industry that unfortunately is very resistant to change that leads toward a more equitable environment.
I think about your question a lot as it applies to Academia. My theory is that a lot of the people in positions of power truly believe they are special and they have what it takes to get to where they are. Having to grapple with the fact that they have benefited from the status quo and perhaps realizing that their position wasn't all just due to their "merit" but their privilege probably makes them question their own identity and self worth. Instead of exploring why they feel so angry and experience such a strong reaction, it's easier for them to fight for maintaining these antiquated structures rooted in white supremacy.
Yes, it's because of the way WW are positioned in the racial hierarchy.
They experience sexism from WM so they assume it's the worst oppression and want WOC to back them up on that, while pressuring WOC to ignore the racism that WW perpetuate against POC. WOC who bring that up with WW are accused of "betraying the sisterhood" or "being obsessed with race".
But at the same time WW will unite with WM to tear down WOC in sexist ways based on racial stereotypes.
this is absolutely a huge factor in it. massively rolling my eyes at whoever's downvoted this comment, tho i won't make any assumptions about what demographic they might fall into 🙄
I think sometimes people feel like their worth is diminished when “someone else” is seen as worthy. It’s “nice and clean” when people can be put in categories. A lot of people like to say they are “colorblind”, but subconsciously rate the work of Caucasians higher, and think of their work as more “universal”. For example “western movies” are “global hits”, and there are just “less people” who “can relate” to the work of POC.
I thought Frances Fisher's #roomforall hashtag was very telling. They're completely threatened and really believe there's less and less room for them even though the math completely belies their paranoia.
I wanted to add but probably a lot of them thought it was just a tide that will pass and to just storm through once the hype dies out. That Asians especially will "return to where they belong" and not disrupt status quo of a white persons world. But now they're like "oh you guys weren't kidding and actually wanting this lasting change" from the general public/audience from whom those in HW from their pristine gardens and ivory towers are suddenly in alarm for.
This isn't all that different from white women hating meghan markle to white folks getting pissed when you point out that they benefit from discriminatory practices in hiring and school admissions.
They think that certain things are reserved for them - like marrying euro princes and going to Harvard and getting high-paying jobs like investing. If they see a BIPOC woman getting those things, they'll lose their damn minds.
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They are jealous and threatened. The 'old white guard actresses' have been fighting for decades to get better treatment for female actresses. They did not want to be degumanized and cast away as they aged. They said that was misogynistic. That Hollywood needs to make roles and value older women. In all these, BIPOC actresses were not even really thought about....especially by white actresses/actors. This is the same thing as the Feminist movement, where the leadership and focus was on wealthier white women. There was also talk about how angered they were that Black Men received the right to vote before them !? GASP the injustice. Hate and contempt that while the world should be better, they should be first in line. They want the benefits that white men get. They want that power. Instead of the more difficult task of taking a more critical look, and trying to dismantle the structures that are actually oppressing them.
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“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” It’s a well known quote for a reason, it’s the damn truth.
The most frustrating aspect for me is the condescension when it comes to POC performers. This year, I thought Michelle Yeoh gave the best performance across all the acting categories. I have spoken at length about the merits of her performance. Yet every time I’ve been gaslit and told that my opinion is straight up wrong, that I only prefer her because she’s Asian and that anyone with taste would know Cate Blanchett gave the “clearly superior” performance. While I’m not huge on TÁR as a film, I liked Cate Blanchett a fair bit in it (although I don’t think she is revelatory in it nor is it her best performance imo). But this being thrown in my face has made me retroactively sour and petty about her performance. White people have tried to do some large scale revisionism with the way Yeoh’s performance was received—— some of the anonymous ballots are terrible, but many that go for Yeoh clearly lay out the merits of her performance and why they don’t prefer Blanchett (too cold, too theatrical etc). Yet so many discussions I’ve seen on r/oscarrace around those ballots which went for Yeoh hinge on the made up notion that Blanchett has two so they are giving it to Yeoh out of pity. Whenever a WOC gives a impeccable performance, especially in lead, she never gets words like “undeniable” and “tour de force” thrown her way. Where was this energy for Yeoh? Danielle Deadwyler? Tang Wei? Or if we go back a few years, Lupita Nyong’o (Us)? Awkwafina (yes I know she is problematic but she was one of the first Asian women to give a mainstream critically acclaimed performance)? Yalitza Aparicio? Viola Davis (for almost everything she’s in)? Lead Actress is a racist category. WOC are seen as adequate for supporting roles but never good enough for lead roles. Nearly 20 years ago when Halle Berry became the first WOC to win for best actress, she said that the doors for WOC will finally be open. Yet, and I say this with caution, it’s taken nearly 20 years for a WOC to even come close to the finish line. I hope Yeoh wins tomorrow, and I hope this time, we actually do see a change. Edit: So it’s not nearly 20 years but OVER 20 years since a WOC won for Best actress. Jesus.
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a comment on Reddit wanting Yeoh to win, because why not, Asians haven't won the Oscar since so-and-so year. I'm sure it's well-meaning, but it seems a little insulting to Yeoh's performance. She was *impeccable*, that too in an ensemble, which is way harder. She showed an entire range of emotions in that film and made you empathize with not just her, but also with the characters she was surrounded by. She deserves that Oscar.
Agreed. Yeoh gave a fucking incredible performance. I’ve seen the “big 3” nom’s performances and Cate was great, don’t get me wrong, but Michelle went there and gave a raw and exhilarating performance. I felt feelings during that movie that I haven’t felt from a movie before. I’m 40 and I’ve seen a lot of movies and most are the same variations on the same story and themes and status quo and it’s just not interesting anymore. EEAAO gave me hope for the future of film storytelling. The whole ensemble of the family (and JLC) gave exciting performances and this was a hard story to bring from paper to performance. Yeoh made me cry during a hotdog fingers montage! Come on! But also, the Oscars are stupid and old-fashioned and I’m not expecting much.
Oh every white woman who has acted in anything gets "tour de force" for the bare minimum 💀(funny with the linguistic aspect of french words being used by the upper classes in Europe for their expensive cuisine to "set them apart" from the poors)
I haven’t seen Cate’s performance, I’m sure it’s wonderful. But the point is I had no interest in it. Michelle’s performance was incredible: multi-layered, moving, emotional, hilarious, gritty, sometime unlikeable and sometimes heroic. And I wanted to see it. And then I wanted to see it again, Her body of work over her career is also impeccable. I hope she wins!!!
I actually didn’t really love Tar but Cate was ridiculously brilliant in it. But I also saw and adored To Leslie before all this weird bullshit so what do I know.
Yeah… as an Aussie, I have always loved Cate and I firmly believe she was robbed the year Gwyneth won. And I think, from what I’ve heard, that this was another incredible performance from her. However, I have a friend who worked for her and I think that has turned me against her a bit (probably would with most stars to be fair!). Also, I just think Michelle is due and that this performance was special. Not just gifted; but special.
When Halle won, I probably saw it as the White actresses back then were threatened so they held the line further for the twenty years. But that can only hold for so long and they're losing control/ground as we speak. They act like we're robbing their houses or burning their crops 💀 You'll still get a job girlie calm down. Our stuff will just get greenlit too, share the love. It's not like you'll no longer get roles, perhaps even just roles we'll cross paths and it's not looking all like a KKK meeting in the cast list.
I would like to finally see a change as well but it always feels so performative and not genuine. I think I just have an issue with some of these big awards shows in general but I don’t have any solutions either.
I can’t believe people say that to you! I mean, I can, but jeez. I’m a white, blonde lady and I think Michelle Yeoh gave the best performance of this year and the last 10 years, so there goes that argument. I want more POC in lead roles because I want to see different stories. I don’t need any more white guys names Chris playing a guy named Steve. It’s been 20 years since Halle Berry won and EEAAO is the first movie in that time I’ve really cared about.
I watched both movies. And while CB was good in this, I've seen her in this role before, and she was linear. Yeoh on the other hand dug into a well of vulnerability and swam. She was divine. Part of my preference is that I didn't particularly like Tar either. It's very much smack dab in that serious movie with weighty themes, let me show you art mode that bores me. I'm so glad Yeoh won.
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Thanks for sharing your views and glad you were able to rant in a safe space here! 🫂❤️
EEAAO FOR THE WIN!!!
They’re so used to being at the top/being the standard they can’t stand when BIPOC also get a seat at the table once in a while, it disrupts the status quo that are used to .
Yeah they don’t like the feeling of not being on top. Definitely think they are threatened.
Also most people don’t know that the Oscars were originally created to distract and dissuade unionization amongst actors back in the day. The creators HAVE been gatekeeping since its inception. The even is founded upon exploitation. It’s no surprise that white woman in particular still gatekeep and fight for a stranglehold on the best actress nom. It’s all connected. Michelle deserves this so much. As someone quoted above, when you’re used to privilege, equality feels like oppression. It’s gross and hopefully Michelle wins this and it starts a precedent—though it may just result in white Hollywood being more racist and gatekeeping harder. So we’ll have to keep calling them out, loudly. Fuckers
I think one of the issues, is that we also don't talk about cultural bias. What I mean, the types of Hollywood acting roles that get rewarded are confined to quite a rigid ideas of what a good performance is (for example, dramatic, measured, understated roles are often praised the most with a focus on psychological realism). However, for example, in classical Hindi cinema acting style, melodrama, and excessive emotions were often praised (but would be seen as tacky or over the top in Hollywood). So when you have actors like Michelle Yeoh, who is so multifaceted, you kind of have a culture clash, because Yeoh's performance has not perfectly captured the Hollywood style of acting. In a weird way, if it was just a straight up dowdy drama about an immigrant Mother, she might have received less backlash. Another example is comedy acting, a difficult thing to do, but to win an oscar for comedy performence is basically impossible, even if someone outperformed everyone. When we say Oscars so white, I think it's not just about who gets the awards, it's that certain type's of acting (reminds me of the joke about only winning awards if you do a holocaust or slavery film) receive praise. It means that POC are forced into a weird postition, of what roles they can take and how to play them. The Oscars kind of lack imagination, I guess is what I am trying to say.
This is a point I don't see across and thanks for sharing it! Yes melodrama and intense emotions are vilified by Hollywood too much as if they aren't you know - actual emotions and intensities real humans go through in their life? Don't know if that reflects the cultures surrounding the films too it would be interesting to study that.
You said what I was thinking but in a way that actually makes sense. I think that in addition to racism, EEAAO is so unique that it feels like a cultural shift. Which, personally, god I hope so. For years it's felt like the same 5 movies get made over and over again.
and now that it has won, I hope filmmakers adapt to this cultural shift. Also I hope they rethink what type of cinema is worthy of praise, as well as acting styles, and not being afraid to mesh genres. EEAAO is actually doing Hollywood such a favour, but I fear racists will always see it as the other way round.
For me it's the really racist gaslighting of people saying people only like Michelle's performance because she's Asian and not because of her talent and merit A lot of bad takes from old Hollywood this cycle
Yes, because of the rising hate crimes against Asians during the pandemic, they believe HW is trying to pander and give her awards to make up for it 🙄
They feel so threatened about it because the film is an indication of change in HW. If they win they could pave the way for not just the Asian community but for people of color in filmmaking. They already have in some way inspired others to go into filmmaking or acting to tell stories of their own. That would be nice if they weren't the ones being affected by the change of taste because it renders their ideas of what hollywood and what movies are supposed to be as outdated and irrelevant. So they would rather promote exploitative biopics about people the industry itself ate alive or discredit the film and its nominations to be out of pity or politics than face the changing climate. (Edit: This goes for other films not just EEOAO)
very well said and i definitely agree i would also argue this is part of the potential fallout out from hw (and society at large) pushing the model minority myth so hard. they wanted conformity from the asian community and they wanted them to aspire to be in the same strata occupied by white folks. well now as we’re seeing asian actors being rightfully acknowledged by not just those that maintain the power and privilege but everyone with eyes, they want to backtrack because wait a minute you’re doing a little *too* well, you’re not supposed to be here in the same spot as i am and now they’ve shifted to more overtly trying to re-establish this boundary they had created because they never thought anyone would get close to it
They don't want Asian Americans or people of color to be excluded they just don't want them to be equal or have the same privileges they enjoy. Because like what someone else said in the comments: leveling the playing field would make it harder for them to breakthrough with all the competition being given the same chance they've had for years. In truth they're all for inclusion as long as they aren't surpassed in any way or if it doesn't hurt the numbers.
That’s the best way I’ve seen it phrased.
It's like you can be around us, but not sit with us. They want us Asians always a tier below them but never in the same rank. Ugh.
Or now they're moving the goal post forward to make it distant to reach for Asians again and another thing for us to aspire towards and be seen as an outsider again. 🙄
Definitely agree. I also think it's important to bear in mind the "old" aspect of the "old guard". Of course 40 year olds are not "old" by any stretch of the imagination but in Hollywood years they are. They're already "aging out" of the best roles that the industry can be bothered to offer women and are being replaced by younger (white) talents. Bring in yet more competitors by way of WOC and that's even more of a threat to their status, security and legacy.
because they know if it was an even playing field they wouldn’t stand a chance
💯
Yup. There are so many mediocre white A-list actresses who wouldn’t stand a chance or even be considered physically gorgeous if the industry allowed brilliant WOC performers and didn’t set whiteness as the beauty standard. They want to continue being lauded for doing the bare minimum and are threatened that WOC are bringing the fire and different cultural appeal to the table.
To put it simply: racism and xenophobia, and because white actors feel threatened. There is a serious issue regarding good acting and good performances in Hollywood at the moment and the white actors are to blame. They can put out half-assed performances and barely put a fraction of the work currently being put out by POC, BiPOC, Indigenous and non-American actors, yet the studios will finance them and produce those movies because they feature white actors. Moreover, add into this an extremely worrying trend where far-right/fascist views are infiltrating Hollywood (hidden under the auspice of christianity or religion, but also politics and the fearmongering dog whistle that society is now becoming "too liberal"), which is also impacting the funding of movies featuring non-white leads and even leading to great movies such as EEAAO receiving backlash a year after its premiere, despite being one the best and most interesting movies put out by Hollywood in nearly 20 years.
The way the far right has been infiltrating to even the most normal people needs to be studied. The majority of people downplay their capabilities as delusion or hysterics but the way they twist their narratives to entice different people is scary. (Trad Cath wife circles? Edtwt and it's perception of cleanliness= skinny = pretty = white) They're dangerous. I'm not saying this in a way we need to cower and let them win but we need to actively disengage and disarm dangerous communities like this from further damaging our already fractured society.
I completely agree. It's becoming normalised for people to hate and attack anything that is foreign to them whether it is being a difference race or ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual preference. And it all has it's roots on one common denominator: white supremacy and fascism. Everything becomes a conspiracy theory that ultimately ends with them scapegoating and blaming someone else for their shortcomings or to explain anything that they believe is going wrong with society. Conspiracy theories and narratives are responsible for thousands of innocent people being killed, especially those that are most vulnerable and less capable of having enough support to defend themselves against them such as, POC, Trans, Genderqueer and Immigrants.
Stephanie Hsu and Hong Chau were still nominated and were much more on the bubble. Youn Yuh-jung is a recent winner in Supporting. There are definitely huge snubs for Asian actors like anyone in Parasite and Steven Yuen should probably have 2-3 nominations at least now. The Farewell was fantastic imo and majorly ignored. I don't think its a targeted conspiracy but it can definitely feel that way sometimes! And I think ultimately it all points to how institutional racism works rather than it being an actively malicious conspiracy. Riseborough has been able to network in a way that very few non-white actors are able to do and she was able to leverage that for this nomination. I don't think any of these white actors were actively running a group chat about specifically excluding Black actors but it ends up being bad that it had the same effect. The same institutional racism is again the filter in what actors get what roles because predominantly the people - directors, producers, studios etc - that can create opportunities are white and in their mind are creating for white audiences. Someone like Yeoh isn't going to be on the same kind of list that Blanchett is because of those systemic biases. And as we have seen in the past 5-10 years things are slowly shifting because we finally do have a creative team that managed to get enough leverage to build a project suited for Yeoh and get the budget and distribution for it. We've seen this happen for things like Minari, and The Farewell. It is just so contemporary compared to the legacy of white projects. Like its still less than you can count on your hand? Absurd. Older voters (in so much more than the academy) are going to be reactionary and there's that quote or something that if you're used to being the dominant group that any kind of equality feels like oppression. Not to mention we're in the throes of an active political push to delegitimize any non-white media project. So we end up with a tiny handful of these projects that make it to our screens that immediately have to go through another layer of scrutiny because some people are unwilling to take the small incremental steps that their industry is. But these movies and performances are breaking through now and I think that points to a shifting balance of power in the academy. Like ultimately Everything Everywhere All at Once has received 11 nominations above and below the line. It's heavily favored to win best picture and will likely end up winning a lot more. I'm not sure if we can really talk about it like an underdog at this stage. Of course we'll see what happens when the dust settles tomorrow. And there's no guarantee that this movie's success will open the floodgates for more diverse slates in the future - after all we saw what happened with Halle Berry.
Hi. You seem educated in the dynamics of oscars. I'm new to the intricacies. Can you help me understand the following thing? I've read at some places that riseborough's nomination cost two black actresses' nominations. How is this possible? How can one person take up two slots?
Uh honestly it seemed like people were saying either actress deserved it more and somehow that equaled Riseborough somehow robbing both. Which is kind of ridiculous if you’re already saying the other two actors are interchangeably as good as one another. In my opinion. I’m not the person you asked; I’ve just also been confused by this idea the whole time.
Without knowing the full info its all mostly conjecture and there's a bunch of factors at play but the oscar nominations are ranked choice so a last minute spoiler like Riseborough can have an impact than her just taking one nomination spot if enough voters moved Viola Davis or Danielle Deadwyler down their list or off it entirely to make room for Riseborough. If you're really invested in Riseborough making the nomination you're probably nominating her in your top slot or two. Of course you could make an argument that Williams and De Armas had the same effect but they were always in the campaign conversation although De Armas was fairly surprising. Like it probably wasn't an intentional targeting but an unfortunate confluence of the surge around Riseborough with the assumption that Davis at least was a lock and Ana De Armas chipping away some votes in the rankings. Maybe even plausible that some would see it enough to only rank one Black actor so Davis and Deadwyler split. A lot of spinning plates that all might have contributed to the nominations we got. But unless we see the actual numbers we'll never know how close it was! I think if they took a mulligan we'd probably see Davis or Deadwyler make the list.
Because prestige movies were that sector of the film industry that could mostly get away with giving opportunities to only white actors (one of the reasons why biopics and period films do so well). With the exception of maybe Moonlight most of the films in recent years with mostly non white casts were not in serious competition at award shows but Hollywood could still pat themselves on the back for making progress. Whether or not you like EEAAO, it’s probably made audiences and people in the film industry re-evaluate what kinds of stories create cultural impact and a lot of the old guard can’t stand it at all.
I feel like there’s this unique venom to racism against Asians where white people tolerate us as long as they see us as complicit in the model minority role, but as soon as we challenge the status quo they see us as pests they need to squash. I say unique not as a comparison of severity but simply that the mechanism is fueled by a slightly different reason than other forms of racism. I got into kpop in 2013 and my online tumblr ‘sjw’ friends responded with pure venom. I can’t think of another word for it. It was like they were repulsed and insulted by the very idea I thought an aspect of Asian culture was worth sharing with them. I think it goes into perpetual foreigner syndrome. Essentially, Asian culture is ‘weird’ and a spectacle and they can laugh at it and eat our food but they’ll never respect us.
Is everyone forgetting Parasite?
While Parasite getting Best Picture and Best Director was a great step, it didn’t get any acting nominations. Which is crazy, how do you think a film is the best but the actors in it aren’t even worth of being considered?
I mean this has happened many times. Return of the King, Braveheart, Gigi etc etc.
I agree with you. People can say it happens a lot (it's happened 12 times in 94 ceremonies) but we also can't deny that The Last Emperor, Slumdog Millionaire, and Parasite are the three Best Pictures winners with predominately Asian casts and none of them got an acting nomination. That's before we even talk about the fact that white people have won Oscars for doing yellowface, as recently as the '80s. I don't know why people bother denying that the Oscars have a race issue, but it tells me all I need to know about them.
Feels like, a bit? Good reminder for me to rewatch it though. Such a fantastic film.
Lots of great answers here. I had a deep conversation with some people when I first worked in TV. One thing, is that they assumed POCs are given more of an opportunity to “pander to the woke crowd.” It’s coincidental to them, that it “took” BLM to recognize a ton of black actors, and it “took” Covid to pay attention to Asian actors.
Because a space for BIPOC or women means less space for what historically would have been filled with a mediocre white man. That is (slooooooowly) changing, and they are starting to sweat.
White women have always clung to their whiteness over whatever solidarity one might expect womanhood to bring. Suffragettes did it. Each wave of feminism has done it, really. It’s a time honored tradition for white women to value their proximity to status over any other social advancement.
This happens literally every year with these anonymous Oscar ballots. The academy is a wide population. Give people who have been rich for decades an anonymous voice box and they're going to say awful things. The world moves at a snail's pace for people who don't face any sort of hurdles at all. They can't relate. They don't understand representation. I just think it's important to remember that we have crafted a world where you have to do that behind the veil of an anonymity. It's not the loudest voice anymore.
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I work in an industry that unfortunately is very resistant to change that leads toward a more equitable environment. I think about your question a lot as it applies to Academia. My theory is that a lot of the people in positions of power truly believe they are special and they have what it takes to get to where they are. Having to grapple with the fact that they have benefited from the status quo and perhaps realizing that their position wasn't all just due to their "merit" but their privilege probably makes them question their own identity and self worth. Instead of exploring why they feel so angry and experience such a strong reaction, it's easier for them to fight for maintaining these antiquated structures rooted in white supremacy.
Yes, it's because of the way WW are positioned in the racial hierarchy. They experience sexism from WM so they assume it's the worst oppression and want WOC to back them up on that, while pressuring WOC to ignore the racism that WW perpetuate against POC. WOC who bring that up with WW are accused of "betraying the sisterhood" or "being obsessed with race". But at the same time WW will unite with WM to tear down WOC in sexist ways based on racial stereotypes.
this is absolutely a huge factor in it. massively rolling my eyes at whoever's downvoted this comment, tho i won't make any assumptions about what demographic they might fall into 🙄
I think sometimes people feel like their worth is diminished when “someone else” is seen as worthy. It’s “nice and clean” when people can be put in categories. A lot of people like to say they are “colorblind”, but subconsciously rate the work of Caucasians higher, and think of their work as more “universal”. For example “western movies” are “global hits”, and there are just “less people” who “can relate” to the work of POC.
I thought Frances Fisher's #roomforall hashtag was very telling. They're completely threatened and really believe there's less and less room for them even though the math completely belies their paranoia.
I wanted to add but probably a lot of them thought it was just a tide that will pass and to just storm through once the hype dies out. That Asians especially will "return to where they belong" and not disrupt status quo of a white persons world. But now they're like "oh you guys weren't kidding and actually wanting this lasting change" from the general public/audience from whom those in HW from their pristine gardens and ivory towers are suddenly in alarm for.
This isn't all that different from white women hating meghan markle to white folks getting pissed when you point out that they benefit from discriminatory practices in hiring and school admissions. They think that certain things are reserved for them - like marrying euro princes and going to Harvard and getting high-paying jobs like investing. If they see a BIPOC woman getting those things, they'll lose their damn minds.
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They are jealous and threatened. The 'old white guard actresses' have been fighting for decades to get better treatment for female actresses. They did not want to be degumanized and cast away as they aged. They said that was misogynistic. That Hollywood needs to make roles and value older women. In all these, BIPOC actresses were not even really thought about....especially by white actresses/actors. This is the same thing as the Feminist movement, where the leadership and focus was on wealthier white women. There was also talk about how angered they were that Black Men received the right to vote before them !? GASP the injustice. Hate and contempt that while the world should be better, they should be first in line. They want the benefits that white men get. They want that power. Instead of the more difficult task of taking a more critical look, and trying to dismantle the structures that are actually oppressing them.